moore 33

[Editor 586]

The new Moore 33.  A pretty conventional looking Alan Andrews design, light weight – 3,700 pounds, retractable keel. But why not a retractable sprit? It seems ridiculous not to have one. Can you say Melges 32?

Check it out.

[JL92S 183]

Retracting sprit = leaks

[Alaris 173]

Seems light for the waterline length. I’m intrigued.

[longy 455]

In areas where the overall boat length is measured for slip rent, a retracting pole will save you a large amount of money

[Irrational 14 165]

Retracting sprit does not leak if engineered correctly. Way better than bolt on/off option.

[stinky 88]

I'll believe it when I see tooling.

 

 

[IMR 53]

its hard to fly screeches/MHG and Code 0 on retractable sprits there is just a lot of load to deal with.   We had a MHG on the 125 last year and we had issues with the bobstay and pole out line, oh and it all leaked.   

[Chix & Dumpling 11]

Why not twin rudders?  Curious, seems the standard for these.

J

[Alaris 173]

@Editor on insta you called it boring and dated. What would you change? Seems like fun to me, just curious how you’d improve.

I like the more modern rig than the Melges and it appears that it will have a larger cabin without more weight. There was definitely not an option for a real head on the Melges 32 that I’m aware of.

[Swimsailor 1,244]

Was a new thread needed?

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/216927-new-moore-33/

[Swimsailor 1,244]

I like the design.  I like that it's simple and conventional looking.  I think the French shorthanded boats are fugly and the systems required for twin rudders, retracting sprits and such just add to complexity and opportunities for breakdown and water ingress.  It's spec'ed much sportier than the J/99 as well. I hope they sell a ton.

[AHoleMel 4]

1 hour ago, JL92S said:

Retracting sprit = leaks

ULBD = Usually Leaks Down Below

Been that way for EVER 

Probably going to stay that way..

Afraid of Water? Stay on the BEACH!

[Great Red Shark 379]

1 hour ago, JL92S said:

Retracting sprit = leaks

You could do an on-deck retraction(Antrim27),

  or on-deck but submerged in a well (Synergy1000)

 

[Great Red Shark 379]

That displacement figure sure seems ambitious.

[Irrational 14 165]

38 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Was a new thread needed?

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/216927-new-moore-33/

Absolutely. That thread veered way off topic. Let's stay on course this time people.

[Raz'r 3,241]

I like it. Talked to a guy working at the shop. they are making tooling.

 

I'm not in the market. I hope they sell lots of em.

 

[carcrash 361]

I think it is silly to have a bow like that today. A fuller bow which means the knuckle is well above the waterline is proven faster in all fleets: from skiffs and planing dinghies, reaching back to FDs and 5o5 but certainly including Aussie 18s and 49ers, and of course so undeniably demonstrated by the mini 650 class and Class 40.

Such bows do not need to be ugly. Sure, the recent examples are not just ugly, but ugly. However, the 5o5 is one of the prettiest boats on the bay. That 5o5 bow is beautiful and very, very fast upwind and down.

I think it is silly to have a bolt on short sprit as shown. Short is stupid, I mean retarded. There is no excuse. Bolt on is also a dumb, dumb choice. A bolt on sprit where the sideways load is carried by the laminations on the sides of that sprit and the bow, is HEAVY and weak. The sprit should be like on a Mini 650: easily stowed, with side stays and bobstay, with vertical support (just the weight of the sprit) carried by a line(s) to the top of the bow pulpit. A Min 650 style sprit is dramatically cheaper and lighter, and can then be of an appropriate length, something like 12 to 15 feet. If you want to plane, you need the bow lift that comes from a long sprit. And of course, the longer the sprit, the faster and more fun. And cheaper!!!! And lighter!!!

I am glad it has a single rudder. Double rudders suck so severely.

It does not seem to have a lifting keel, so the keel and draft makes a lot of sense. Personally, I would keep the keel simple, as is.

But to ease trailering, and to make the boat more widely useful on lakes, the Gulf Coast, the East Coast, a lifting keel can have several big advantages. Structurally more efficient:

1) A win for reducing materials and therefore cost;

2) A win for safety, as impact loads get spread throughout the entire structure. With ramp or small hoist launches especially at lakes, groundings will be common;

3) A win for market, in that the boat might be 12' deep keel down in the Pacific, 7' keel down along the East Coast, and 5' keel down in lakes. Maybe make the bulb interchangeable to three different length foils.

 

[Alaris 173]

It has a lifting keel. 

[carcrash 361]

Oh, duh. I see they do have a lifting keel. 7.5 foot draft.

[Superkilt 1]

1 hour ago, carcrash said:

I think it is silly to have a bow like that today. A fuller bow which means the knuckle is well above the waterline is proven faster in all fleets: from skiffs and planing dinghies, reaching back to FDs and 5o5 but certainly including Aussie 18s and 49ers, and of course so undeniably demonstrated by the mini 650 class and Class 40.

Such bows do not need to be ugly. Sure, the recent examples are not just ugly, but ugly. However, the 5o5 is one of the prettiest boats on the bay. That 5o5 bow is beautiful and very, very fast upwind and down.

I think it is silly to have a bolt on short sprit as shown. Short is stupid, I mean retarded. There is no excuse. Bolt on is also a dumb, dumb choice. A bolt on sprit where the sideways load is carried by the laminations on the sides of that sprit and the bow, is HEAVY and weak. The sprit should be like on a Mini 650: easily stowed, with side stays and bobstay, with vertical support (just the weight of the sprit) carried by a line(s) to the top of the bow pulpit. A Min 650 style sprit is dramatically cheaper and lighter, and can then be of an appropriate length, something like 12 to 15 feet. If you want to plane, you need the bow lift that comes from a long sprit. And of course, the longer the sprit, the faster and more fun. And cheaper!!!! And lighter!!!

I am glad it has a single rudder. Double rudders suck so severely.

It does not seem to have a lifting keel, so the keel and draft makes a lot of sense. Personally, I would keep the keel simple, as is.

But to ease trailering, and to make the boat more widely useful on lakes, the Gulf Coast, the East Coast, a lifting keel can have several big advantages. Structurally more efficient:

1) A win for reducing materials and therefore cost;

2) A win for safety, as impact loads get spread throughout the entire structure. With ramp or small hoist launches especially at lakes, groundings will be common;

3) A win for market, in that the boat might be 12' deep keel down in the Pacific, 7' keel down along the East Coast, and 5' keel down in lakes. Maybe make the bulb interchangeable to three different length foils.

 

A fuller bow and where the knuckle is are not mutually exclusive and the plumb bow issues waterline length.   This is not a dinghy.  

That is a short sprit?    Dude, this thing will likely be fleet racing and should appeal to that market.   

A lifting keel is structurally more efficient?   Take it and run with it, I guess.   

A bolt on sprit if well designed is fine.   I've seen more than one retractable break - housing or sprit itself.  

Look, they're not designing the thing for Lake Whats-its-Nuts in Northern Italy.  Are you upset you can't get our on a wire?   

Remember that they need to sell these things.  They are appealing to a specific market.  

 

 

 

[longy 455]

CC - please post pictures of your stated plan to use your O 40 spi pole as a sprit, full extension.

[solosailor 353]

Quote

Retracting sprit = leaks

Mine doesn't....   OK, it may leak but I've never had any water below as it has a well that drains over.

[solosailor 353]

There certainly are not many yacht clubs with hoists in NorCal, what 4 of them - 5x if you count Santa Cruz.  Some like Encinal could lift but not store a boat of that length.  Others certainly not with a fixed sprit.  

[apophenia 147]

I want one. In about 5 years, when I've learned as much as I can from my plague boat.

[SF Woody Sailor 298]

1 hour ago, solosailor said:

There certainly are not many yacht clubs with hoists in NorCal, what 4 of them - 5x if you count Santa Cruz.  Some like Encinal could lift but not store a boat of that length.  Others certainly not with a fixed sprit.  

Wait, what? SFYC, StFYC, CYC, RYC, SCYC, EYC, TISC, Alameda Marina and I only thought about it for 10 seconds...

[PurpleOnion 78]

16 hours ago, Alaris said:

@Editor on insta you called it boring and dated. What would you change? Seems like fun to me, just curious how you’d improve.

I like the more modern rig than the Melges and it appears that it will have a larger cabin without more weight. There was definitely not an option for a real head on the Melges 32 that I’m aware of.

That would require time, effort, knowledge, and a desire to enrich through your own efforts rather than provoking others to comment and provide enrichment.  I'm not saying that the commenter does not possess those resources, but I am suggesting that greater return on investment is achieved through provoking the community to provide enrichment while generating more comments and page views - or the modern term: engagement.

 

[Meat Wad 533]

I was reading the Highlights / Specs https://moore33.com/moore33/ and was wondering about a few items. It might be Fabrication talk but I don't know.

 

Quote

DECK

Adhesively bonded hull to deck lap joint to be durable, damage-resistant, easily constructed for close tolerances between boats.  Rail hardware including pad eyes and stanchions provides through joint fasteners.

Deck framing to include:

• Foredeck transverse ring frame
• Cabin house edges
• Cockpit support from the retractable outboard enclosure
• Traveler partial bulkhead and rudder tube.

Deck, cockpit and transom exterior surfaces to be molded gel coat or with molded or applied non-skid.

• I sure hope the hull deck joint is Durable. But damage resistant seems a bold statement. 
   
• What do they mean Close Tolerances between boats? I hope they come off the production line 99.9% identical or to they mean when in a rafting situation?
   
• What does "Cabin house edges" mean. Is the cabin top constructed separately and then attached?
   
• Partial Traveler bulkhead makes sense to keep deck flexing to a minimum. With a  Frac rig that main will be big  and under tension up wind. It's not a jib traveler if you read the deck hardware section.

[Movable Ballast 166]

Cost... It's all about cost. The cost to make the sprit retractable would be significantly higher that the fixed option. The additional structure required in the bow area to contain the pole would make her heavy in the nose and require more forward floatation (fuller bow) to keep it on it's lines which would affect how she goes through chop. So from a pure design exercise the fixed sprit is the best configuration. From a functional/user perspective it is the worst... Slip fees to contain the sprit would be higher at say $20/ft/month that sprit cost about $80 to $100 a month... Playing sword fish on a crowded line will drive up insurance costs and damage the boats on a regular basis. the general usability of fixed sprits that long is very poor but if it's a performance only question? It's perfect...     

[Raz'r 3,241]

43 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

I was reading the Highlights / Specs https://moore33.com/moore33/ and was wondering about a few items. It might be Fabrication talk but I don't know.

 

• I sure hope the hull deck joint is Durable. But damage resistant seems a bold statement. 
   
• What do they mean Close Tolerances between boats? I hope they come off the production line 99.9% identical or to they mean when in a rafting situation?
   
• What does "Cabin house edges" mean. Is the cabin top constructed separately and then attached?
   
• Partial Traveler bulkhead makes sense to keep deck flexing to a minimum. With a  Frac rig that main will be big  and under tension up wind. It's not a jib traveler if you read the deck hardware section.

Close tolerances would mean statistical process control/logging while manufacturing.

 

[Meat Wad 533]

11 minutes ago, Movable Ballast said:

Cost... It's all about cost. The cost to make the sprit retractable would be significantly higher that the fixed option. The additional structure required in the bow area to contain the pole would make her heavy in the nose and require more forward floatation (fuller bow) to keep it on it's lines which would affect how she goes through chop. So from a pure design exercise the fixed sprit is the best configuration. From a functional/user perspective it is the worst... Slip fees to contain the sprit would be higher at say $20/ft/month that sprit cost about $80 to $100 a month... Playing sword fish on a crowded line will drive up insurance costs and damage the boats on a regular basis. the general usability of fixed sprits that long is very poor but if it's a performance only question? It's perfect...     

They don't give any Rating, Rig or Sail measurement dimensions. I wonder what the TPS is?

I like the way the MC31 did their sprit but it is pretty short. I saw the one in SB at the dock and they remove it and put it away.

If the Moore 33 sprit is longer than 3' removing it will be an issue until you get docked. Better look out for those dock pilings as you swing in.

[Norcal 19]

A 2010 TP 52 called, it wants its cabin top back.

 

[solosailor 353]

Quote

Wait, what? SFYC, StFYC, CYC, RYC, SCYC, EYC, TISC, Alameda Marina and I only thought about it for 10 seconds...

Alameda Marina permanently closed.   TISC doesn't have enough draft for a J24, nor space for a 30ft'er, EYC has no space for a boat of that size and the 2 ton limit includes a trailer....   been down that with my 30.75' ride.  SCYC...  yes the only 3 ton in NorCal left but NOT on the SF Bay...  the sprit will likely have to come off to store.  CYC....   hahahahah, can't barely fit a Cal20 there, SFYC might be the only spot on the bay if you want to join that Yacht club$$++  don't know how long you'de have to be a member and wait for a space.  StFYC = can you fit anything beyond a J/80 there?      So where are all these hoists???   Only 1-3 possibilities ONLY if you belong to those Yacht Clubs.....   maybe.   Where is ONE hoist you don't need to belong to a yacht club to dry sail a boat of that size?   Name one.   

[solosailor 353]

I have one of 2x spots in Brickyard Cove that will fit a 30' boat with 10' beam.  I had to wait 3.5 years for it to open up.   10' beam and overall length with trailer is a deal killer nearly everywhere.

[Matagi 718]

Sorry, I don't see anything interesting / novel in this. Nothing that the FT 10 didn't do many moons ago. 

Or look at the Far East 31. And that is a 10 year old design.

[Alaris 173]

The looks of the FT have always been polarizing and the Far East has dubious manufacturer support from what I’ve read (and that terrible reverse bow).

It will be interesting to see if Moore meets its claimed displacement and what the SA/D ends up being. I still haven’t been able to find a sailplan with specs. 

[Raz'r 3,241]

2 hours ago, Matagi said:

Sorry, I don't see anything interesting / novel in this. Nothing that the FT 10 didn't do many moons ago. 

Or look at the Far East 31. And that is a 10 year old design.

That’s not very offshore friendly.

 

[Matagi 718]

2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

That’s not very offshore friendly.

 

Anyone who thinks a 1,700 kg racing boat is offshore friendly should be thoroughly examined.

[Raz'r 3,241]

Just now, Matagi said:

Anyone who thinks a 1,700 kg racing boat is offshore friendly should be thoroughly examined.

I guess you don’t buy into uldbs. Fine. No one is forcing you too.

[Matagi 718]

I buy into the laws of Physics.

[Raz'r 3,241]

3 hours ago, Matagi said:

I buy into the laws of Physics.

Pretty sure the 33 displacement is not much different than any of the Santa Cruz legacy boats

[Raz'r 3,241]

Yeah, it’s light at 70, but that’s empty. 

[Hitchhiker 761]

Pretty sure the sprit is easily detachable for many similar reasons to this:

 

[kokopelli 19]

21 hours ago, Matagi said:

Anyone who thinks a 1,700 kg racing boat is offshore friendly should be thoroughly examined.

I guess you have not been aboard one of the many Olsons, Hobies, Minis, etc. which have raced to Hawaii or Bermuda, most of them short or single handed.  Displacement alone is not a measure of offshore capability.

[44forty 162]

I just wish boatbuilders would stop building new boats for us . Progress sucks and who wants a cool boat anyway 

[Raz'r 3,241]

7 hours ago, kokopelli said:

I guess you have not been aboard one of the many Olsons, Hobies, Minis, etc. which have raced to Hawaii or Bermuda, most of them short or single handed.  Displacement alone is not a measure of offshore capability.

I looked it up, the Moore 33 as listed would be a bit lighter than a Moore 24 in Dspl/LWL, and a bit HIGHER than the Hobie 33.

[Swimsailor 1,244]

Why are there so many pics and videos of NOT Moore 33's on the website?  How about more than one rendering? Sailplan?  Does Alan Andrews not have some animation software?  

[stinky 88]

5 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

Why are there so many pics and videos of NOT Moore 33's on the website?  How about more than one rendering? Sailplan?  Does Alan Andrews not have some animation software?  

Sounds like they're still in the fundraising part of the build process.

I don't think a new boat bigger than an El Toro has come out of the shop since the mid 90's, it might take a minute for things to get going even if they convince someone to write the necessary checks.

[Swimsailor 1,244]

9 hours ago, stinky said:

Sounds like they're still in the fundraising part of the build process.

I don't think a new boat bigger than an El Toro has come out of the shop since the mid 90's, it might take a minute for things to get going even if they convince someone to write the necessary checks.

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the lack of renderings and drawings of the boat on the website.  The website looks like an ad for sailing vacations not the next new awesome West Coast offshore boat.

[44forty 162]

6 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the lack of renderings and drawings of the boat on the website.  The website looks like an ad for sailing vacations not the next new awesome West Coast offshore boat.

The beneteau website is awesome !  But the boats......

[Swimsailor 1,244]

19 minutes ago, 44forty said:

The beneteau website is awesome !  But the boats......

I'll take a Moore 33 for offshore racing and that Antares 11 Fly for lake days.

[#13 27]

On 9/24/2020 at 11:24 AM, JL92S said:

Retracting sprit = leaks

Not if it is deck mounted like my Antrim 27.  Retracts and cants up to 30 degrees off centerline.  The furler is in a well below decks.  Jim is a very smart NA- furler is low and no holes in the hull.  Cheers!

[Kmullen 15]

The ancestor of the Moore 33  

Moore 30

[JimBowie 328]

The Moore 30 was the basis for the "Ultimate Yacht Race" series 1988-90.  They raced around Corpus Christi couple times and what an interesting shit show that was.  Much more interesting, fun and spectator friendly than anything the AC has been in last 30 years.  Bring back the Ultimate.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-09-25-sp-4009-story.html

 

 

[Kmullen 15]

This one is mine. A few months ago some friends and I bought half a boat and a box of parts and We working on putting it back together. Should be a lot of fun once we get it sorted

[44forty 162]

2 hours ago, Kmullen said:

This one is mine. A few months ago some friends and I bought half a boat and a box of parts and We working on putting it back together. Should be a lot of fun once we get it sorted

A Moore 30 ? 

[Kmullen 15]

Yes

[44forty 162]

Good one man , looks like it will be a blast 

[yoyo 88]

Any locals have any updates?  Hull #1 and 2 supposed to be launched in spring 2021.  It be cool to see some build / progress pics.

[stinky 88]

*crickets*

 

[Amati 1,346]

On 9/27/2020 at 12:43 PM, Raz'r said:

Pretty sure the 33 displacement is not much different than any of the Santa Cruz legacy boats

Thinking the same thing, esp when the price point was mentioned.  (Wonder what the layup will be?  A bit of end grain balsa?) Looks from the rendering like it’s v’d in front of the keel, so if you can keep her upright, should smooth things out a bit.  Rocker seems to be tucked up a bit more in back (angle of the rendering?) than a lot of recent boats- she looks kind of New Zealand - ish, but a bit more beam.  Subtle, beguiling shaping.  Wondering what the SA : WS is with the blade?  And how much sail (and crew) you’d need to sustain 20k.  Lowish prismatic until the bow lifts?  

[yoyo 88]

On 10/25/2020 at 8:25 PM, Kmullen said:

This one is mine. A few months ago some friends and I bought half a boat and a box of parts and We working on putting it back together. Should be a lot of fun once we get it sorted

Cool ride.  Should be fun.  Keep it flat :) and have fun.

On a side note.... maybe I am confusing this with another boat from that era but I seem to remember the Moore 30 was not self-righting when knocked down in a heavy broach because of the wings.  And I also can't remember the name but I think someone clipped the wings on a Moore 30 for the rating.  Curious if anyone with a better memory and can comment.

[JimBowie 328]

Note: NOT for sale on Craigslist

[sam_crocker 29]

On 11/28/2020 at 7:48 AM, yoyo said:

Cool ride.  Should be fun.  Keep it flat and have fun.

On a side note.... maybe I am confusing this with another boat from that era but I seem to remember the Moore 30 was not self-righting when knocked down in a heavy broach because of the wings.  And I also can't remember the name but I think someone clipped the wings on a Moore 30 for the rating.  Curious if anyone with a better memory and can comment.

There's two Moore 30s.  One with wings and another that looks like a scaled up Moore 24.  I think kmullens boat is the latter.  There's some similarity between kmullens boat and a Wilderness 30, as far as hull shape goes (my creaky brain thinks it heard that they used the same mold).

[yoyo 88]

On 12/4/2020 at 9:32 PM, sam_crocker said:

There's two Moore 30s.  One with wings and another that looks like a scaled up Moore 24.  I think kmullens boat is the latter.  There's some similarity between kmullens boat and a Wilderness 30, as far as hull shape goes (my creaky brain thinks it heard that they used the same mold).

The one I vaguely remember seeing was squared off at the deck hull joint where the wings were clipped.  It was obvious the boat used to have wings.  Maybe it was a different animal.  

[Code 2 11]

I hope they reconsider an inboard or make an inboard option - inboard has so many upsides and well .. outboards suck.  

The weight issue is really a non issue - and the convenience is a key factor to owner happiness and batteries charging and other stuff.

I know you maths folks love this weight stuff - but it doesn't matter for your 2% factor of gravity - destiny of downwind performance in 10 knots of TWS.

Lets see some picture of the build.

[stinky 88]

*crickets*

[Code 2 11]

Whats up with the crickets here?  Wanna see this boat....

[yoyo 88]

Well - maybe this is why no news.   January 15, 2021 - Latitude38