socalrider

Daysailer for old people

Recommended Posts

Well, then the cold-molded alerion might be back in the running. Toss the engine, use a torqeedo 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you take the battery off of a little Torqeedo or similar it's easy to move around and stows in a compact space. If it stowed under the side deck and the battery was on a extension cord so it could stay put when in use then swinging the motor onto a side mount might be easy enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, weightless said:

If you take the battery off of a little Torqeedo or similar it's easy to move around and stows in a compact space. If it stowed under the side deck and the battery was on a extension cord so it could stay put when in use then swinging the motor onto a side mount might be easy enough.

Yeah, that seems to be how the Stuart Knockabout system is designed.  Clever!

image.png.bb764d09b38f9751f1d3e69c50961961.png

1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

Well, then the cold-molded alerion might be back in the running. Toss the engine, use a torqeedo 

Yeah - I wonder if it'd end up being cheaper in the end though - prop shaft is already there, and you don't need much battery.  I'd be inclined to retrofit, but would certainly look into both options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heres two....that I have owned and sold....Cape Dory Typhoon and Cape Dory 22....the 22 would have more room....down below cabin and you don't get wet when a wave breaks over the bow....just say'n

IMG_1545.JPG

IMG_0631.JPG

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/7/2020 at 11:06 PM, socalrider said:

On the Knockabout page they describe their aux motor solution - a side mounted Torqueedo.  

https://www.stuartknockaboutllc.com/motors.html

I could certainly rig something similar up for the Bull's Eye with the $71,100 left over from the purchase.

As an older sailor using an OB (Torqeedo), I would be leery of the side mount idea.

Unless I'm wrong, it means you must remove the OB and bracket before you start to sail. This could be a pain-in-the-ass, especially if it's a choppy day. Also, if you get into a situation where you want power in a hurry, remounting the OB would take a bit of time. 

I mount my Torqeedo at the dock, and remove it when I get back. The only time I have to touch it while underway is to tilt it up or down. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@shavdog Beautifully kept boats. I had a Typhoon in the 1970s. It never looked as good as yours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@socalrider I ran across this Herreshoff classic, a Marlin 23. 1961 vintage, 2006 inboard diesel, trailer, and more. It's in New England, but at $12,500 with a trailer, it's an interesting possibility.

https://areyspondboatyard.com/brokerage/nathanael-herreshoff-marlin-heritage/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Bull City said:

@socalrider I ran across this Herreshoff classic, a Marlin 23. 1961 vintage, 2006 inboard diesel, trailer, and more. It's in New England, but at $12,500 with a trailer, it's an interesting possibility.

https://areyspondboatyard.com/brokerage/nathanael-herreshoff-marlin-heritage/

Very nice!  Doesn’t say but I suspect (hope) it’s a glass hull from the cabin top. I’ll pass her along. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Stuart Knockabout seems to have an electric inboard option on their website. I'm sure it's Cha-chinggggg$$$  but would be a pretty sweet solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a UK-made Swallow Yachts BayRaider 20, which is a water-ballasted yawl-rigged open daysailer.  There is also a version with a lid, the BayRaider Expedition.  It can be sailed, rowed and propelled by an outboard (electric in my case).  It has won many prizes in the Sail Caledonia sail & oar raid across Scotland’s Great Glen (which includes Loch Ness) and has won the raid outright, even with me as skipper.  Flexible, fast (without water ballast) and very stable (with water ballast), I’ve had mine for ten years now and still think it’s great.  
 

I usually sail solo and also launch from its trailer and retrieve by myself.  Because it is light with the ballast tank empty, it can be trailed long distances behind quite small cars - I’ve taken it to Greece from the UK several times.  I’ve added a plank bowsprit to mine to fly a code zero or flying jib when I want a few more strings to play with - photo below.  
 

There are now quite a few BR20’s in the US, mostly with fathead Bermudian mainsails.  Mine is a more traditional gunter-rigged version.

4B2EC11F-6148-4D58-A227-7A1FE05221E3.jpeg

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are a few more photos of my BayRaider in action, in Greece, Wales and Scotland.  I’m 65 and not quite as agile as I was when I bought the boat new in 2010 but I still find her easy to handle.

56877CB2-D2B3-4443-BD33-E6A120DFC2D1.jpeg

8DCD4F5A-C095-4A24-BB47-65EBBD02CA8B.jpeg

FC145DF0-4CE4-46A2-9DC5-61C8E498DF03.jpeg

1A855AFC-E741-4ED3-A72B-028DEBE11EED.jpeg

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One more photo and then I’ll desist.  This shows a SeaRaider sandwiched between two GRP BayRaiders as they ghost along the shores of Loch Lochy during the Sail Caledonia raid all the way back in 2012.  The SeaRaider was the precursor of the BayRaider and was a no-compromise out-and-out sail & oar raid boat, water ballasted like the BayRaider, made of lightweight epoxy ply and with no creature comforts.  Only two were ever made.  I’ve raced in her as crew and she goes like stink but needs expert handling.
 

The BayRaider was developed from the SeaRaider as a more comfortable, broader beamed dayboat with a smaller sail area.  With a sprayhood and cockpit tent you can actually sleep on her, as I have done on numerous trips.  There’s nowhere to sleep on the SeaRaider and hardly anywhere to sit either.

876468DD-F9B8-405D-BF80-2216D8CDA958.jpeg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Beanie 101 said:

One more photo and then I’ll desist.  This shows a SeaRaider sandwiched between two GRP BayRaiders as they ghost along the shores of Loch Lochy during the Sail Caledonia raid all the way back in 2012.  The SeaRaider was the precursor of the BayRaider and was a no-compromise out-and-out sail & oar raid boat, water ballasted like the BayRaider, made of lightweight epoxy ply and with no creature comforts.  Only two were ever made.  I’ve raced in her as crew and she goes like stink but needs expert handling.
 

The BayRaider was developed from the SeaRaider as a more comfortable, broader beamed dayboat with a smaller sail area.  With a sprayhood and cockpit tent you can actually sleep on her, as I have done on numerous trips.  There’s nowhere to sleep on the SeaRaider and hardly anywhere to sit either.

876468DD-F9B8-405D-BF80-2216D8CDA958.jpeg

don't desist!

 

But Loch Lochy?  Com'on...that's funny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, chester said:

don't desist!

 

But Loch Lochy?  Com'on...that's funny.

It really should have been Loch MacLochy.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Swallow Boats is a wonderful company.  I've wanted a Storm 17 for a long time...great sail and oar boat,but try to find one over here.  There was a Swallow Boats Bay Raider in Santa Barbara, last time I was down there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Beanie 101 said:

There’s a Storm 19 for sale in Norway at the moment for what looks like a low price https://www.swallowyachtsassociation.org/smf/index.php/topic,2089.0.html.

As with the SeaRaider, only two were ever made.  The Storm has no water ballast, which for me is the magic Swallow Boats ingredient.

I notice that they've discontinued all their smaller boats and the line keeps getting more and more expensive. Now they have a 23 foot cruiser.  They don't have any non-water-ballasted boat now, which I think is too bad, but they gotta build what sells.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Swallow’s biggest boat is now the BayCruiser 26, also water ballasted.  A new addition to the lineup is the Coast 250, which can take an outboard of up to 70hp in a well in the centre of the boat and can cruise at 15 knots - in calm water anyway.  Swallow have posted videos of the 250 at speed.  It’s bizarre to see what looks like a conventional sailing boat moving so fast.

 

If I won the lottery, I’d go for a yawl-rigged version of the BayCruiser 23. Anything faster and my dentures would fall out.  In the meantime, I’m happy with my BayRaider.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Harbor 20 -

I bet there is one locally that needs to be sailed. Easy to motor, easy to sail. resale might be easy too. 

I raced a Stewart Knockabout (not by choice) and it was nice to do once but, a handful for an older couple.

Get them out there on the water ASAP !

 

Sail Safe

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys.  Yeah I'm trying to push them to bite on *something* - my dad had a minor heart scare last week, which I'm worried will make them hesitant.  I have the opposite impulse: get out there while you still can!  

1 hour ago, sailpower said:

I love it.  Here's a similar design by Brewer, the Quickstep 24.  Lots of good boats seem to be coming up as the season ends in the NE.  Still not much locally.  

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1991/quickstep-quickstep-24-3244644/

image.png.a3e6be6d80d0c5cffd4e3a22139c4d5e.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, SailRacer said:

I raced a Stewart Knockabout (not by choice) and it was nice to do once but, a handful for an older couple.

Thanks - that's good feedback.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, socalrider said:

Lots of good boats seem to be coming up as the season ends in the NE.  Still not much locally.  

Transport across the country is a big expense, but a NE boat has had winters out of the water, and less UV exposure during its life which is worth something. At least that's what I told myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Transport across the country is a big expense, but a NE boat has had winters out of the water, and less UV exposure during its life which is worth something. At least that's what I told myself.

It's also had a lot of freeze/thaw cycles. Rudders and bilges/garboards. On the bright side, the rigging is going to be freshwater aged and checked whenever the mast comes down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If your parents are getting older and beginning to have balance problems, a Knockabout or 12 1/2 a probably in the a bit too small category.  You need something with benches, a shallower cockpit that is less sensitive to weight.  Not having to deal with an outboard is a great help too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Elegua said:

If your parents are getting older and beginning to have balance problems, a Knockabout or 12 1/2 a probably in the a bit too small category.  You need something with benches, a shallower cockpit that is less sensitive to weight.  Not having to deal with an outboard is a great help too. 

Yeah - I was really enchanted by that 12 1/2, but neither my dad nor I really have the combination of time, patience and chops to keep a 90yr old wooden hull floating.  And you're right, it's probably a hair too small.  

A couple of Harbor 20's have popped up; that or an Alerion 28 are probably the rational choice.  Not that reason has much to do with any of this... the H20's do still sort of leave me cold though.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get the Herreshoff design aesthetic, but if your balance challenged parents are looking for a fun boat with a really safe cockpit, the Colgate 26 is a great option.  It can daysail with the best of them, and if you want to race, it does that too.  And if they want to take 6 or 8 of their best friends on a sunset sail in the bay, the Colgate can accommodate them easily.  

https://www.colgate26.com/

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is depressing. I just reread the original post and realized OP's parents are my age. All this talk about balance challenges is scaring the cheese out of me.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Yeah - I was really enchanted by that 12 1/2, but neither my dad nor I really have the combination of time, patience and chops to keep a 90yr old wooden hull floating.  And you're right, it's probably a hair too small.  

A couple of Harbor 20's have popped up; that or an Alerion 28 are probably the rational choice.  Not that reason has much to do with any of this... the H20's do still sort of leave me cold though.  

My parents had a fiberglass one after they sold their Alerion 28 (mistake).  I think the Alerion is a great choice for an elderly couple.  Not cheap, but you can sell it for what you paid and you can talk a full-service yard into a fixed-price maintenance and storage program. 

Turns out I lent them my boat for the Summer, which turned out a bit too big, but set the cruising hook again. So they sold the 12 1/2 and bought a Seasprite in good condition with plans to overnight. This will be their last boat.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What size Sea Sprite? 23' or 34'?

I'm surprised at how easy it is to sail modern boats. In-boom and in-mast sail handling work a treat. 

A separate fin keel and spade rudder is much, much easier to handle than a more traditional configuration. Restive is much easier to dock than Sparky was. 

Sorry we didn't see you last summer. We'll be leaving Maine early next year to do Marion-Bermuda, assuming that still goes off. Fingers crossed. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cruisin Loser said:

What size Sea Sprite? 23' or 34'?

Sorry we didn't see you last summer. We'll be leaving Maine early next year to do Marion-Bermuda, assuming that still goes off. Fingers crossed. 

A 34. Likewise! My guess is we'll be in the clear by next June, or at least enough for an offshore race.  Let us know know where you'll be before and after. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Hukilau said:

I get the Herreshoff design aesthetic, but if your balance challenged parents are looking for a fun boat with a really safe cockpit, the Colgate 26 is a great option.  It can daysail with the best of them, and if you want to race, it does that too.  And if they want to take 6 or 8 of their best friends on a sunset sail in the bay, the Colgate can accommodate them easily.  

https://www.colgate26.com/

 

that's a great suggestion.  the video video tape at the link is a blast from the past...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kinardly said:

This is depressing. I just reread the original post and realized OP's parents are my age. All this talk about balance challenges is scaring the cheese out of me.

Keep sailing and doing what you're doing. Go to a yoga class when safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Elegua said:

A 34. Likewise! My guess is we'll be in the clear by next June, or at least enough for an offshore race.  Let us know know where you'll be before and after. 

There not buying one from our mutual friend, are they? 

Those are good boats. 

If I have to for Covid, I'll do it DH. 

 I hope Canada opens back up. I miss the Bras D'Or terribly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

There not buying one from our mutual friend, are they? 

Those are good boats. 

If I have to for Covid, I'll do it DH. 

 I hope Canada opens back up. I miss the Bras D'Or terribly.

No. This guy re-built it quite nicely and then kicked the bucket - estate sale - so a public service announcement to everyone to make sure they get their sailing time in.

Every day you spend at sea is a day longer your live. Or so I was told by a guy who made it way past his UBD. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, chester said:

that's a great suggestion.  the video video tape at the link is a blast from the past...

What is a Colgate like single-handed? Do you need meat on the rail?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

What is a Colgate like single-handed? Do you need meat on the rail?

i have absolutely no experience with them but i don't see why they wouldn't be easy to single hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, chester said:

i have absolutely no experience with them but i don't see why they wouldn't be easy to single hand.

IIRC, the jib winches are on top of the little cuddy, a long reach from the tiller. Some way to lock the tiller in position might be a good addition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SemiSalt said:

IIRC, the jib winches are on top of the little cuddy, a long reach from the tiller. Some way to lock the tiller in position might be a good addition.

Like the Colgate 26, my old J22 had the jib sheet winches on the cabin top, and tacking was a bit inconvenient when single handing. With a longer cockpit, I suspect the Colgate would be more so.

Also, the Colgate 26 specs show Ballast/Displacement of 40% (1050/2600).  I suspect it's pretty dependent on crew weight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

What is a Colgate like single-handed? Do you need meat on the rail?

I single handed one in a beer can race in moderate trades. The factory setup isn't great for single handing but it isn't terrible either. Two to one jib sheets would be easy to rig and, perhaps with auto-ratchets, would eliminate the need to use the winches for trimming. Then the sheets could go aft. Adding some cleats near the helm for the jib sheets and maybe the roller furling line would make it all civilized. Unless the folks are insatiable racers there's no need to have any meat on the rail. For day sailing it's a sit in kinda boat.

Getting on and off over the railings might be an issue for folks with reduced mobility.

The seats are comfy and movement inside the cockpit is easy. Nice boat. Not a bad choice at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a pic of a Colgate 26 sailing. A few observations:

  • Although there are some white caps, there is a lot of meat on the rail (5 people),
  • The OB motor is way back there. I know from experience that this would be a PITA.
  • The reach from the helm to the jib sheets and halyards control is quite far.
  • The traveler is aft of the cockpit, but still not very handy.

It's my understanding that these boats were designed for group sailing instruction, and they look pretty good for that. For an older couple, like Mrs. Bull and me, I don't think it would be a good choice.

1255697005_ScreenShot2020-10-21at4_47_22PM.thumb.png.b2eae022818de4a90921be701e5302ca.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bull City said:

It's my understanding that these boats were designed for group sailing instruction, and they look pretty good for that. For an older couple, like Mrs. Bull and me, I don't think it would be a good choice.

Thanks Bull - I agree, not ideal.  Mom won't like the looks either.  Honestly a self-tacker is probably what'd be best.

Seems like there are a few more small classic plastic vessels coming up on Craigslist of late, but inventory remains pretty tight.  There's an Alerion 28 in Idaho with a trailer that looks good, and a Harbor 20 in Santa Barbara, but parents are still not sure how much the want to spend.  Trying to avoid analysis paralysis - told my dad last night that the differences between any of these boats is dwarfed by the difference between having a boat and not having a boat.  

Example: probably overpriced but well sorted Capri 22.  Could be sailing this weekend.  Slip fees are low and easy to sell if it doesn't work out.    https://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/boa/d/san-diego-capri-22-with-6hp-4-stroke/7217045183.html

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, socalrider said:

Thanks Bull - I agree, not ideal.  Mom won't like the looks either.  Honestly a self-tacker is probably what'd be best.

Seems like there are a few more small classic plastic vessels coming up on Craigslist of late, but inventory remains pretty tight.  There's an Alerion 28 in Idaho with a trailer that looks good, and a Harbor 20 in Santa Barbara, but parents are still not sure how much the want to spend.  Trying to avoid analysis paralysis - told my dad last night that the differences between any of these boats is dwarfed by the difference between having a boat and not having a boat.  

Example: probably overpriced but well sorted Capri 22.  Could be sailing this weekend.  Slip fees are low and easy to sell if it doesn't work out.    https://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/boa/d/san-diego-capri-22-with-6hp-4-stroke/7217045183.html

Nope.  That traveller will mess with his/her knees and shins and send him/her all-a-splatter heading one way or the other in a hurry.  Move along....  Bruises, blood and curses lie here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Bull City said:

Here's a pic of a Colgate 26 sailing. A few observations:

Nice pic.

I have sailed one of these a bit. Both racing and day sailing. Single handed, double handed and crewed, in placid and boisterous conditions and conditions in between.

The boat does not require folks hiking for any non-competitive sailing whatsoever and the traveler, backstay and main controls are all in very easy reach of the helm.

The outboard placement is a long way from the helm. It is possible to steer and drive from back there but the stock setup isn't perfect.

It's a doodle to sail with two but it is a bit of a stretch to the jib sheets with one. Single handing with full sail is no big deal for an able sailor. Main alone would be easy for most.

I think one would be fine for some older couples. I don't know about solcalrider's folks, of course.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Veeger said:

Nope.  That traveller will mess with his/her knees and shins and send him/her all-a-splatter heading one way or the other in a hurry.  Move along....  Bruises, blood and curses lie here.

Good point. In the CL ad the guy is helming from afore of the traveler but looking more closely that’s not the preferred position. 

Harbor 20 looking good. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Harbor 20 looking good.

FWIW, if the money and looks are right it seems ideal for the service to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I agree the Harbor 20 might be the best answer, you guys are killing me with the trav comments regarding the Capri.  That trav is right where it should be to control the main both From a performance and a efficiency of effort (which matters as we age).  Most of the time the person trimming the jib will stay in front of the trav, while helm will sit just aft of it.  Either can reach and control main without having to cross the trav.  If someone has to cross it, and they’re not that steady/flexible, it’s easy to sit by it, lift a leg over, butt scooch, and lift the other leg over.  Hell, the harbor 20 has a Barney post the main sheets to, that might grab someone to, just like that terrible bear claw trap that is a trav that bridges the cockpit :P

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For what it's worth...

For many years we had a cruising boat at the lake.  Week-ends, holidays and cruising vacations with the grandkids along. Then we got a vacation house at the marina and when SWMBO moved into the house she never looked back.  I was single handing a big, slow boat.  I likened it to driving a 30 foot mobile home to the grocery store to get a loaf of bread.  I wanted to day-sail something that was more fun.  Enter Bill Lee and "Fast is Fun".  I found a SC27 for a reasonable price and started fixing it up - one project each year.  Standing rig, epoxy bottom, life lines, sails, running rig with all lines lead aft, and finally roller furling.  It's stable (3400 lb. w/ 1600 ballast), reasonably comfortable, easy to single hand, and for a forty year old boat it's still fun.  The traveler is on the bridge deck so you only have to step over it if you go below.   The only negative thing I can think of is the location of the outboard.  Electric start would be nice.  I guess I might qualify as an "older person", I'm 77, but sailing is still a passion.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, socalrider said:

Mom won't like the looks either.

Neither do I. Good on Mom. They know best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

14 hours ago, Crash said:

That trav is right where it should be to control the main both From a performance and a efficiency of effort (which matters as we age).  Most of the time the person trimming the jib will stay in front of the trav, while helm will sit just aft of it.  Either can reach and control main without having to cross the trav.  If someone has to cross it, and they’re not that steady/flexible, it’s easy to sit by it, lift a leg over, butt scooch, and lift the other leg over.

I've got a mid-cockpit traveler on my H-Boat, and while I understand why it is where it is, I still don't like it, but I live with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Neither do I. Good on Mom. They know best.

Friend of mine said about his mom, an old school New Englander: "she has a whim of iron"

Mine is similar, though a southerner.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bull City said:
20 hours ago, socalrider said:

Mom won't like the looks either.

Neither do I. Good on Mom. They know best.

Are you okay? Did a Colgate 26 eat your lunch?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, weightless said:

Are you okay? Did a Colgate 26 eat your lunch?

I'm fine and no, a Colgate 26 never did anything to me. I just don't care much for the look, and, looking at the photo, I think they would have some shortcomings, for me and for Socal's folks.

No big deal. Thanks for the concern. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Bull City said:

looking at the photo, I think they would have some shortcomings, for me

Glad you're doing well. :) Was worried that you might be consumed with hate.

But, you know, it's okay to hate the boat. You don't need any reasons. It seemed to me that your "observations" might be motivated thinking. Based on my experience in the boat I think they are very misleading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, weightless said:

Glad you're doing well. :) Was worried that you might be consumed with hate.

But, you know, it's okay to hate the boat. You don't need any reasons. It seemed to me that your "observations" might be motivated thinking. Based on my experience in the boat I think they are very misleading.

Weightless, there is only one object of my hate right now, and I hope it will be cast upon the ash heap of history in about 12 days.

The Colgate 26 looks like a fine boat for some, but not so much for an older couple. Then again, I have no experience in the boat, just looking at a photo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Weightless, there is only one object of my hate right now, and I hope it will be cast upon the ash heap of history in about 12 days.

The Colgate 26 looks like a fine boat for some, but not so much for an older couple. Then again, I have no experience in the boat, just looking at a photo.

On the first we agree and the rest isn't very important. Peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, just being forthright here.... 20 guys have proposed 20 different options here and none of them are right, and y'all keep coming back to the Harbor 20.  So tell dad to go buy a Harbor 20!

 

I know, finding one..... So buy a new one.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe this is one of the original Sea Sprites from which C.E. Ryder borrowed the name for the bigger boats.

Sea Sprite.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

I believe this is one of the original Sea Sprites from which C.E. Ryder borrowed the name for the bigger boats.

Sea Sprite.jpg

very nice!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Australia has some very good family cruising boat designers, particularly round sydney way

sydney flying squadron.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, 167149 said:

Australia has some very good family cruising boat designers, particularly round sydney way

sydney flying squadron.jpg

Is there a boat under there somewhere?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/23/2020 at 8:55 AM, Tanton Y_M said:

Daysailer for young and old.

11-2 (1).jpg

Very cool. One of your designs? It's like a mini Sizzler. It would be a great boat to offer Introduction to Sailing in at a sailing academy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/23/2020 at 12:55 PM, Tanton Y_M said:

Daysailer for young and old.

11-2 (1).jpg

What's with the weird, forward-raked spreaders? It looks like someone stepped the mast backwards...then installed the goose neck on the wrong side...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

What's with the weird, forward-raked spreaders? It looks like someone stepped the mast backwards...then installed the goose neck on the wrong side...

I'll let YMT answer your question, but I will say that I've seen this boat at dockside and the forward spreaders do keep the stays away from the paying passengers, giving them a bit more elbow room.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SemiSalt

Jim in Halifax.

You can read more about this type of boats on my Blog: see below for access.

 Search: Chine Boats. Letter of Mark.

My 40' Waterline Day sailer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Tanton Y_M said:

SemiSalt

Jim in Halifax.

You can read more about this type of boats on my Blog: see below for access.

 Search: Chine Boats. Letter of Mark.

My 40' Waterline Day sailer.

Sorry Yves-Marie, I was not able to find an explanation of the rig with the forward-raked spreaders on your blog; can you post a link here please?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the link SemiSalt. I'm not sure I really understand the first reason for the forward-raked spreaders: that the entire rig is always tensioned and that the backstay tension is working with the lowers to "keep the mast from pumping". This the function of a forward lower in a conventional rig anyway and with this 40' Waterline Daysailer rig, there is no aft lower to help keep the middle of the mast in column...but I'm no NA so what do I know? I get the advantages when going downwind. So much to learn, so little time....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/23/2020 at 11:55 AM, Tanton Y_M said:

Daysailer for young and old.

11-2 (1).jpg

For an older couple looking for a day sailer? Seriously?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Bull City said:

For an older couple looking for a day sailer? Seriously?

Well it does have comfy seats in the cockpit and footrests...but, yeah. Maybe more of an excursion boat for the old folks home?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Bull City said:

For an older couple looking for a day sailer? Seriously?

Consider the half size model:

LOA = 23 ft

LWL = 20 ft

Beam = 5.6 ft (I would expect larger.)

Disp = 1641 lbs

Sail Area = 240 

Sort of like a Sonar.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/21/2020 at 9:28 PM, weightless said:

Nice pic.

I have sailed one of these a bit. Both racing and day sailing. Single handed, double handed and crewed, in placid and boisterous conditions and conditions in between.

The boat does not require folks hiking for any non-competitive sailing whatsoever and the traveler, backstay and main controls are all in very easy reach of the helm.

The outboard placement is a long way from the helm. It is possible to steer and drive from back there but the stock setup isn't perfect.

It's a doodle to sail with two but it is a bit of a stretch to the jib sheets with one. Single handing with full sail is no big deal for an able sailor. Main alone would be easy for most.

I think one would be fine for some older couples. I don't know about solcalrider's folks, of course.

Seems I missed all the fun on the Colgate 26 discussion.  For some reason, this thread didn't pop up in my alerts.  Rats.  Anyway, weightless hit the high points here.  I found the boat to be a fun, stable and forgiving platform.  Good comment about the outboard placement; that might make things difficult for an older couple.   Although I know my friend who owned one was planning on installing remote controls for the outboard, so there's always that option.  And fwiw, the only time I remember going behind the traveler was to handle the outboard.  Once sailing, there was never a need to be back there.  But if Mom doesn't like the way it looks, well, that's that.

The Harbor 20 has beautiful lines.  Never sailed on one, but I was aboard one at a boat show.  The impression that I remember was that the boat looked.... cheap.  I know it's not, and I know it's well-made, and that it's low maintenance.  But all of that white plastic....

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Hukilau said:

But if Mom doesn't like the way it looks, well, that's that.

The Harbor 20 has beautiful lines.  Never sailed on one, but I was aboard one at a boat show.  The impression that I remember was that the boat looked.... cheap.  I know it's not, and I know it's well-made, and that it's low maintenance.  But all of that white plastic....

Thanks for your comments. 
Jury’s still out on Mom’s verdict on the H20. I know she’d prefer something like this, but doesn’t want the trouble. 
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/boa/d/dana-point-25-ft-sailboat-classic-beauty/7221486490.html

00m0m_9WS5zGBZkM1_0ne0hq_1200x900.jpg

Nice but overpriced J92s came on the market locally. Halfway tempted to offer to split the cost and they can sail her under main alone and I can do some shorthanded racing. 
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2007/j-boats-92s-3727709/

Not sure the wife will bite on that...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One other issue for the day sailor to consider:  the head.  You may be able to do without a sink or self tailing winches, but if you intend to be out on the water for more than a couple of hours, you will need to pee.   Dad may be fine with an old milk bottle or going over the side, but I'm betting Mom is more discerning.

The first big-boy boat I ever sailed on extensively was a Catalina 22.  Although technically a "cruiser", it's really a day sailer that can be overnighted.  When we (Mrs. Hukilau and I) would go out for the day on the C22, either by ourselves or with friends, someone would inevitably have to use the head at some point.  The head on the C22 is in the cabin, between the v-berth cushions.  To have any privacy, we would have to close up the companionway.  None of my guests or my wife ever liked calling that much attention to themselves when they had to pee.  Not to mention that it was a bit of a pain to do.

So when I went about looking for a replacement for the C22, I resolved to find a boat of about the same size where the head was behind a door.  I found that regrettably, there aren't many such choices available.  The Oday 23 did fit the bill: centerboard, easy to single hand, cheap, and the head is behind a door.  Never underestimate the value of head privacy for the ladies.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Nice but overpriced J92s came on the market locally.

Can't argue against that. But a smaller boat could be easier on and off the dock. For the less spry it might be very nice to be able to reach a dock cleat to drop a little spring line over while still seated at the helm. Less boat is also less inertia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites