Marcjsmith

Freeing up a stuck engine

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Ok. I’m working on refurbishing as 1988 moody 376.  That was initially powered with a Perkins 4108

Currently the engine has 1023 hours on it,  it has sat unused on the hard for 5 years, the engine hours correspond with the log books.

 Genset has 236 hours and started right up.  So I had similar hopes for the Perkins.   No such luck

Engine is not rotating by starter or by hand. I have removed injectors and saturated the tops of the pistons with a combination of Pb blaster and Marvs mystery oil.  Borescope show nothing odd inside the cylinders.  I have a socket, breaker bar, and she’s digging her heels in.

I’ve tried rotating each direction with no joy.

I’m at a loss as to getting the engine to rotate.  

I need some old wives tales,secret hacks, etc.. anything...

Next step would be to remove the head and start beating on the Tops of pistons with a dead blow hammer... after consulting with a professional of course...

 

 

 

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By hand, do you mean with a long wrench on the damper bolt? Takes a fair amount of torque to break loose even slightly rusted rings. You've not much to lose.....

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Compressed air in the injector hole on one of the cylinders that's at or close to TDC.

Lubricant in the cylinder bores. The compressed air may help get it down the cylinder around and past the rings.

Be careful with a breaker bar that you don't shear whatever fastener you are putting the socket on. If it's the pulley on the crank it will be pretty large so probably will take a lot of torque but still, a broken fastener in the end of the crank will be a bummer.

 

 

 

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I would get rid of all other maybes, pull the belts maybe starter.  Before pulling the head you could try a electrical impact on the fwd crank nut, even the small Milwaukee ones have a ton of torque, maybe a challenge to fit, but a good try.  With that much effort unfortunately you most likely are looking at broke rings and possible seawater intrusion into block at some point earlier.

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Obviously one pulls the engine out. Pop the pan and head off. Have a look. Even if you get it to turn over, wouldn't a prudent mariner want to know what the engine looks like inside? Plus, you will find a myriad of other pending disasters from the shaft coupling to rotten hoses.

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Assuming it’s actually in neutral?  Does shift lever on transmission move between reverse, neutral and forward?

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38 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

Obviously one pulls the engine out. Pop the pan and head off. Have a look. Even if you get it to turn over, wouldn't a prudent mariner want to know what the engine looks like inside? Plus, you will find a myriad of other pending disasters from the shaft coupling to rotten hoses.

This.

Even if you get it unstuck, are you seriously going to run it after it was seized solid?

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3 hours ago, El Boracho said:

Obviously one pulls the engine out. Pop the pan and head off. Have a look. Even if you get it to turn over, wouldn't a prudent mariner want to know what the engine looks like inside? Plus, you will find a myriad of other pending disasters from the shaft coupling to rotten hoses.

 

2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

This.

Even if you get it unstuck, are you seriously going to run it after it was seized solid?

In the 1970’s I was working in a boatyard on the Seattle ship canal. One morning several old guys (my age now) showed up with a black wooden Navy pilots gig about 30 feet long. It was low in the water, green with slime, water logged and still dripping. It turned out that they had raised it after sitting on the bottom of Lake Washington for a couple of years. They were pumping it out and we young-uns watched with knowing amusement as the old guys hunkered over the engine. After a while they dragged a couple of big batteries on board and when we heard that they were going to try and get the diesel running we found that quite amusing. They stuck around through lunch puttering on it and we went back to work. About coffee break time we heard a loud rumbling followed by huge clouds of black smoke.  It stopped and started a couple of times but within a few minutes it was roaring smoothly, spitting water out the exhaust and the smoke got clearer and clearer. Pretty soon they slipped the mooring lines and took off up the ship canal. It was the last time I underestimated old guys. Good luck on getting your engine running.

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I would ensure 100% that the drive is disconnected(Transmission Neutral and Free). 
Then that Engine Top end(head) and bottom end(sump) are 100% Decommpressed.
If still no movement i would fill the barrels/bores with Diesel and or kerosene allow to soak, pull the sump off and check Bigend(crank). Try to save the bores. Good luck. 

 

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where's suider when you need him ?

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Firstly get some Eucalyptus Oil. I don't know if you can get it in the US but it's easy to get here (Australia) and pour a liberal amount into each cylinder. Let stand for a week or so.

Next remove the injector from whichever cylinder is on the firing stroke i.e. both valves closed. Modify the injector so you can screw or weld a grease nipple into it. Pack you grease gun with a cheap marine grease and proceed to pump that cylinder with grease. Even a cheap grease gun will produce around 4000 psi so if the pressure of that won't shift the piston then nothing short of destruction will. 

You're welcome D.o.B 1955 

 

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14 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

... you could try a electrical impact on the fwd crank nut, ...

I would not try that. An impact wrench works by applying a very low energy impulse, the mass of the crank and pistons will absorb that even if the rings aren't stuck. Also you cannot go in reverse without loosening the bolt. Most likely result is a broken bolt. What you want is about a 2' wrench, apply steady firm pressure back and forth after oil soaking the rings. If you can get it to move even just a little it will loosen up after awhile. 

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13 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Even if you get it unstuck, are you seriously going to run it after it was seized solid?

I would. No previous (known) problems with the engine. Probably just too much moisture in the air, rings seized. Just needs a little more force to free it.

Once it's running, then assess how much blowby (put finger on dipstick hole). If lots then yeah, then tear into the engine. If not, it's a diesel. More likely than not it will burn a bit more oil than most but other than that, what other damage is likely?

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Even a short 2 year layup can put enough corrosion on your bores to bork your piston rings.  Bar it over with the injectors out or better, with just a dash of lube oil before trying to start it.  

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So I’ve been soaking.  I pulled the injectors and dropped in some Pb blaster and marvs.  Using the front nut with a breaker bar.   

Trans shifts fine and evidence by being able to rotate the prop in neutral and not when in gear.

no space on the front of the engine for an impact wrench.

starter is shit, when tested the gear shoots out,  rotate about half a rev then stops.

still early in the game.  Thanks for the ideas folks.

 

 

 

 

 

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Go slow, lots of soak time and eliminate all the other stuff, a seazied water pump or alternator can be a expensive oops, pull the belt and starter.  Like Zonker said the small diesels are super forgiving.  I was probably a little remiss in suggesting a impact on second thought maybe not the best for your crank bearings.  You should still be able to get full overhaul parts for that engine as well as industrial remans. Super common and popular engine.  I would let it soak for a week or more and give it another go with the breaker bar. If you can find it kroil is very good too.

We flooded the engine on our last boat, long story... A note of caution.  Before rotating  pull the valve cover and ensure all the valves move freely.  You should be able to depress by hand.  If a valve guide is rusted up and you roll the engine, even by hand you will bend the valve. With the injectors out you have no worry of hydraulic issues, but make sure once free you roll it plenty to clear the cylinders.

 

A boat that was next to us in the marina just went through the same drill.  A bit of patience and it was running in a week.

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how long has it been soaking?

PB Blaster is great stuff, but it took me 3 weeks to have a s/s bolt let go of an ALMAG (aluminum &  magnesium alloy) hatch that had corroded together over 20 years.

If you pull the head, get pb blaster or ATF in there and tap (not beat) each of the pistons a bit every day for a couple days. The vibrations will get the lube by the rings and let it work on the rings below the top ones.  Slow and steady will get it done.   We are talking diesel and not some lawn mower engine...

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I wish you the best, but PB inside the bore...  not sure how that is going to go. It will find its way into the oil.  At a minimum I would flush the hell out of the engine oil if it gets freed up.  Stick with diesel, ATF, paint thinner, kerosene, WD-40; petroleum distillate sorts of things.

 

P6060397.jpg

https://www.marcorubber.com/o-ring-chemical-compatibility-chart.htm

https://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/pss_shaft_seal

Screenshot from 2020-10-05 18-20-44.png

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On 10/5/2020 at 9:35 AM, Ukuri said:

Firstly get some Eucalyptus Oil. I don't know if you can get it in the US but it's easy to get here (Australia) and pour a liberal amount into each cylinder. Let stand for a week or so.

and if nothing else your engine will smell great!

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50/50 mix of ATF and acetone is the best penetrant I've ever found.

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Was at boat yesterday.  Still no joy.   But things have only been soaking a week.

no room for an impact wrench,  only about 6” of clearance between the pulley and fuel tank...

gonna take time....

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I'm glad there's no room for an impact wrench, it'll prevent destructive temptation.

I'd be using a 12pt socket, a breaker bar, and as long a steel pipe as I could fit over the breaker bar within the available space.

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When you attempt to bar it over, back and forth do you have play/movement or is it locked solid? 

 

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If this was a truck you would have the head and sump off by now so you knew the problem.

Access is 50% of the job...

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7 hours ago, olaf hart said:

If this was a truck you would have the head and sump off by now so you knew the problem.

Access is 50% of the job...

Depends a bit on the truck. I've got a Ford F350 diesel. Pulling the heads or the pan requires first removing the entire cab from the truck. 

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3 hours ago, DDW said:

Depends a bit on the truck. I've got a Ford F350 diesel. Pulling the heads or the pan requires first removing the entire cab from the truck. 

I have always wanted an F450...

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Why a 12 point socket? When I want to apply lots 'o force I'll always reach for a 6 point one. Much less likely to round a bolt head.

And if you can rock the breaker bar both ways, do so. It might get things started.

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22 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Why a 12 point socket? When I want to apply lots 'o force I'll always reach for a 6 point one. Much less likely to round a bolt head.

And if you can rock the breaker bar both ways, do so. It might get things started.

Longest bar you can swing. Rock back & forth slowly

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Is it possible to pressurize the cylinders with compressed air? 100 psi in alternating cylinders with closed valves may help.

Resist temptation to pressurize a cylinder while using the breaker bar. 

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This is the sort of thing where it can be a little dangerous putting the cart before the horse.  In theory you are trying to break loose piston rings that are rusted to cylinder liners. In theory that is the issue, all effort applied goes to that point but without decoupling the transmission band pulling everything off the front it is not 100%. My previous point about a impact goes to the point of a small shock load to break the rust free, however in crazy hands could do damage.  The same can be said for cheater bars etc, good to keep the potential issues in mind and not over do any potential fix.

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Yeah. Surprised by the shade-tree mechanical advice here. I would have had that engine out of the boat, into the shop, and torn down by now. Done it many times during my boating years. Sometimes out and back in a day.

Note to the breaker bar aficionados: The torque rating of the engine, and thus the bearing loads, are less that what a shop monkey can generate while pretending to be a diesel mechanic. Ju’sayin’.

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2 hours ago, Zonker said:

Why a 12 point socket? When I want to apply lots 'o force I'll always reach for a 6 point one. Much less likely to round a bolt head.

And if you can rock the breaker bar both ways, do so. It might get things started.

A six point is stronger but if you're swinging a long pole inside a constrained space like a boat using a breaker bar, you won't necessarily be able to orient the handle in the direction you want for clearance and purchase. A 12 point will give you 30 degree increments on the handle position where a 6 point will only give you 60 degree increments. 

I've done enough grunting with a long cheater bar in the boat to have concluded that it's better to start the project by maybe breaking the socket rather than finding that I can't get the wrench on the damn nut because the breaker bar and six point socket are conspiring against me. I've already broken enough ratchets to have accepted the wisdom of a breaker bar.

I know I may sound like Woofsey with my oddly specific advice and long-winded justification but I've been in this situation more than once.

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30 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

I would have had that engine out of the boat, into the shop, and torn down by now.

If you take off the head and the oil pan, how do you free up the piston rings if they are stuck? Do you also take off the main bearing caps etc?

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21 minutes ago, Zonker said:

If you take off the head and the oil pan, how do you free up the piston rings if they are stuck?

A wood block and a mallet on the piston tops.

If that doesn't do it you pretty well have to move on to destructive testing.

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Having spent years in messed up spaces on ships, the odds of a normal person breaking a 1/2" ratchet are nill so socket points is not a big consideration.  To El B, yes it's obvious that pulling the engine and putting in a dry shop to tear down makes sense provided it needs a full overhaul.  I still think a bit of investigation is worth it in determining the issue before jumping the gun.  I have spent a fair bit of owners money being over cautious in recommendation of service.  If the owners time is not a consideration than he should definitely spend some time mucking about seeing if he can get things moving.  The impulse to send it away and have someone make it better is so profound now I applaud some elbow grease in sorting through a issue.

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The oil soak is good. if you can contrive a way to utilize torque and shock is good too. I mentioned cylinder pressure above. that is how early air starters worked.

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10 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

The oil soak is good. if you can contrive a way to utilize torque and shock is good too. I mentioned cylinder pressure above. that is how early air starters worked.

Not old at all, it's how alot of mid speed diesels are started.  Rotary air distributer connected to the cam and a start air check valve on each head. Bergen MAK etc all still use it. Some use pilot control others direct. It's coming up with 28bar of air on the sailboat that's the problem...

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1 hour ago, Zonker said:

If you take off the head and the oil pan, how do you free up the piston rings if they are stuck? Do you also take off the main bearing caps etc?

Yes, probably. Depends. Might only be one piston stuck...the unlucky one with its exhaust valve open to the salty dampness. It's all quite simple once the engine is out. I always find it much quicker overall to take the engine out of a cramped sailboat bilge. But that is just me. I would think there are a dozen neglect-related issues that will plague this engine if it does miraculously spring to life without an internal inspection. All likely obvious when the engine is out in the daylight. Cheaper in the long run.

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On 10/7/2020 at 9:16 AM, ryley said:

and if nothing else your engine will smell great!

But once you get it running, you have to keep on cleaning dead koalas out of the engine compartment.

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6 hours ago, Zonker said:

If you take off the head and the oil pan, how do you free up the piston rings if they are stuck? Do you also take off the main bearing caps etc?

You just get a better idea of the problem, it’s not necessarily as far as you go, but will tell you if you need to pull the engine or not..

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14 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Having spent years in messed up spaces on ships, the odds of a normal person breaking a 1/2" ratchet are nill so socket points is not a big consideration.  To El B, yes it's obvious that pulling the engine and putting in a dry shop to tear down makes sense provided it needs a full overhaul.  I still think a bit of investigation is worth it in determining the issue before jumping the gun.  I have spent a fair bit of owners money being over cautious in recommendation of service.  If the owners time is not a consideration than he should definitely spend some time mucking about seeing if he can get things moving.  The impulse to send it away and have someone make it better is so profound now I applaud some elbow grease in sorting through a issue.

Your point is taken on the ratchet, but it's hard to rock back and forth with a ratchet. Almost by design...^_^

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21 hours ago, IStream said:

A six point is stronger but if you're swinging a long pole inside a constrained space like a boat using a breaker bar, you won't necessarily be able to orient the handle in the direction you want for clearance and purchase. A 12 point will give you 30 degree increments on the handle position where a 6 point will only give you 60 degree increments. 

I've done enough grunting with a long cheater bar in the boat to have concluded that it's better to start the project by maybe breaking the socket rather than finding that I can't get the wrench on the damn nut because the breaker bar and six point socket are conspiring against me. I've already broken enough ratchets to have accepted the wisdom of a breaker bar.

I know I may sound like Woofsey with my oddly specific advice and long-winded justification but I've been in this situation more than once.

But you can just take the 6 point socket off the square drive and rotate it by 90 degrees and slap it back on and you've just moved the socket points by 30 degrees. I'd love to gloat, but a seriously OLD old guy showed me this.

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And you can do the same thing with a 12 point and you've got 15 degree resolution.

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A cheapo 3/4" ratchet is easier but if you need swinging room you're already done as far as this thread is concerned.

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5 hours ago, IStream said:

And you can do the same thing with a 12 point and you've got 15 degree resolution.

90° is exactly 3 of the 12 points, so it doesn't change the orientation.

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Yesterday was a good day......my cousin in law pilot for airplane happened to be in town and wanted to see the boat.  He begged me to let him play around with the motor, which I oblidged.   I had brought with me a longer breaker bar and I had trimmed down about 3/4” off of the 12pt socket so it fit closer to the engine.  While I was out working on the keel.   He came down the ladder looked at me dead pan “I broke it”.  Long pause. Then he added “free”

only chems used were Pb blaster and marvs.

the engine rotates smooth,  no grind or grittiness.  Transmission operates properly, raw water impeller rotates 

installed the starter and engine turned over on its own.

now I need to get the thruhull and raw water strainer installed and put the injectors back in and bleed the fuel lines and see if it will thump over on its power..

 

thanks all for the ideas, and support.   The end of the tunnel just got closer

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Fantastic news. Now you can motor along worry free knowing there are no rust damaged bores, pistons, rings or valves in the engine. Or whatever was amiss in there. 

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We don't know if he is planning to motor across the Pacific, or just use it to daysail in and out of harbor. Run it and change the oil a couple of times - you are unlikely to do a lot of additional damage in any case. Don't fix what ain't broke. Now, if you are planning to motor across the Atlantic, a teardown might be in order. 

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On 10/9/2020 at 3:12 PM, longy said:

Longest bar you can swing. Rock back & forth slowly

 
Soak, soak, soak... then soak some more. Use a 6 sided socket, a torque multiplier, and a ratchet. Be forceful gently.
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Torque multiplier?  Need some place solid for the reaction arm to go.  Placing the reaction arm against the engine beds would transfer all the torque through the engine mounts, which is basically what a breaker bar is doing but 3x (or whatever ratio)  more.  If that engine isn't free by now it needs to come out.  Much more of this thread and it will be coming out, but in small pieces of shattered nodular cast iron!  

 

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3 minutes ago, sailak said:

Much more of this thread and it will be coming out, but in small pieces of shattered nodular cast iron!  

Those smaller fragments will be easier to remove than the one big assembly. :p

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1 hour ago, El Boracho said:

Fantastic news. Now you can motor along worry free knowing there are no rust damaged bores, pistons, rings or valves in the engine. Or whatever was amiss in there. 

Well it’s not running yet,  

No transats in my future, but given the wind in the Chesapeake.  Some motoring may be needed. And once it splashes,  letting it run at the dock or taking it out for a few hours and putting a load on while still close to home to see what breaks isn’t a bad idea....  just make sure my towboatus is paid up...

 

 

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For the first testing I'd make sure my dock lines were right and then run it in gear at 2000 RPM.

I did a bunch of that while I sorted out my engine and power train and it worked fine with no risk if something failed.

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A Vessel Assist Capt. told a story about a fella with a tank of old, gooey diesel. The mechanic told him the cheapest way to dispose of the fuel was by running the engine hard.

It worked! Problem is he was miles from his marina when the tank went empty!

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9 hours ago, Marcjsmith said:

Yesterday was a good day......my cousin in law pilot for airplane happened to be in town and wanted to see the boat.  He begged me to let him play around with the motor, which I oblidged.   I had brought with me a longer breaker bar and I had trimmed down about 3/4” off of the 12pt socket so it fit closer to the engine.  While I was out working on the keel.   He came down the ladder looked at me dead pan “I broke it”.  Long pause. Then he added “free”

only chems used were Pb blaster and marvs.

the engine rotates smooth,  no grind or grittiness.  Transmission operates properly, raw water impeller rotates 

installed the starter and engine turned over on its own.

now I need to get the thruhull and raw water strainer installed and put the injectors back in and bleed the fuel lines and see if it will thump over on its power..

 

thanks all for the ideas, and support.   The end of the tunnel just got closer

Great news!  I would do a oil change, then try your luck at firing up.  If running only go for a short period till hot then shut down and do oil and filters again.  After that go for it.

 

Pretty funny I was waiting for the Hi Torque pic to come up, we got a 3/4 ratchet suggestion and a torque multiplier only thing left is a hydraulic HI Torque....

 

You know everyone is probably bored beyond belief stuck somewhere and wishes they could mess around on a engine!

 

Good luck on your runnin go slow and lots of double checking.

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Sass,  I did try a torque multiplier.  Wedged lever arm against the side of the engine bay that opens up to the cockpit locker.  No joy. But it was very tight fit and I really didn’t feel comfortable with it...

had a couple recommendations about setting up some wood blocks and get a bottle jack under the breaker bar.   I wasn’t ready to poke a hole through the hull just yet...

my cousin in law is also a hopeless shade tree mechanic ex navy, and has worked on plenty of cars, motorcycles and airplanes, So I felt comfortable with letting him have a crack at it.  He also got a pry bar into the starter area and was able to lever against the ring gear as well.

el boracho,  as with any used vehicle,  the level of trust between the new owner and said vehicle is tenuous at best in the early stages of the relationship, no matter the condition in which it was received.    Being that this vessel was received in “far less than Bristol condition”, Ive got a pretty good idea that I will maintain a healthy level of suspicious trust for quite some time.  Probably enough time to at least run through most of the 50 gallons of 6 year old diesel fuel in the tank and get it blended with fresh fuel.   

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1 hour ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Engines are for docking man let's here about sails and rig!!

Genoa needed the uv cover restichedin a few spots, sail make who made the repairs remarked how good of shape the sail is in.   main appears to be in great shape as well, and the jib looks like it’s never been used.

rig looks good from the ground using binocs,  can’t go up the mast while on the hard. No visible rust on the shrouds or obvious defects. Running rigging is fine as well,  replaced a couple halyards.  Shroud cover plates loosened, cleaned and rebedded  

But it’s a 30 year old rig, remember that healthy amount of Suspicious trust I mentioned...

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If that's a cold start I say follow the "change the oil and giv'er" advice. You must be really happy with that.

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8 hours ago, andykane said:

If that's a cold start I say follow the "change the oil and giv'er" advice. You must be really happy with that.

Well I almost fucked up....I had also been trying to remove the raw water pump impeller so I had the cover plate off.  After a few failed starting attempts I was smelling exhaust...  so I remembered the raw water pump was basically an exhaust pipe at the mixing elbow.   Glad I caught that and put th cover plate back on...the first few puffs of smoke out of the engine would have filled the cabin and then some....

andy, I was losing sleep over the engine not rotating,  now I’m going to be losing sleep from a excitement point of view...  still a long way to go,  at least a couple thruhull and seacock to replace  hull sanding and paint

 

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It's nice to get a big, potentially expensive variable nailed down to the good. How's the mast step, keel joint, and rudder?

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mast step is not soft, no cracks radiating out in the gelcoat.  compression post looks ok.   keel joint looks good.  actually the rudder is about 15 years old.  it de-laminated on one of the PO's cruises  and was completely replaced.  of course after sitting out of the water for 6 years  who knows what the seals look like...

 

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Sounds like it's all just details at this point!

(I can say that without jinxing the project, you can't!)

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6 hours ago, Marcjsmith said:

still a long way to go,  at least a couple thruhull and seacock to replace  hull sanding and paint

I wish I was progressing on my boat at 10% of the rate you are. :P

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50 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I wish I was progressing on my boat at 10% of the rate you are. :P

Don't feel bad, here's 10 day forecast for Washington, DC:

image.thumb.png.377020a992f5fc5207fa8407e3443e6d.png

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5 hours ago, IStream said:

Don't feel bad, here's 10 day forecast for Washington, DC:

image.thumb.png.377020a992f5fc5207fa8407e3443e6d.png

Yeah but I’m only able to put in a day or two a week,   I just looked at my log and I’ve been on the boat 17 times.  104 mile round trip.  34 hours driving in the car, 40 gallons of gas.  I have a few friends who have stepped up occasionally and decided to waste their days toiling away with me.  Which has been a force multiplier.   No way I’d be this far along with help.

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2 hours ago, Marcjsmith said:

No way I’d be this far along with help.

Freudian? :D

I'm reminded of a sign in an auto shop;

Labour Rate $100/Hr

If you watch $150/Hr

If you help $200/Hr.

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12 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Freudian? :D

I'm reminded of a sign in an auto shop;

Labour Rate $100/Hr

If you watch $150/Hr

If you help $200/Hr.

If you tried to fix it yourself first $400/Hr.

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Marc, somehow I missed that you had a 4108. Those engines are really hard to kill. Mass Maritime's diesel class strips and reassembles a 4107 a couple times a year and it's still going. The only 4108 I know of that has been completely destroyed was one in a boat in Singapore where the diesel was bought from open barrels. I don't think there's enough filtering in the world to protect an engine and it died a nasty, noisy death.

I had a 4108 in my Freedom 40 cat ketch. It sipped fuel - less than a gallon an hour at cruising speeds. the boat had a 120 gallon tank that was impossible to keep clean because you never burned any fuel out of it. at 6 knots I figured I could motor all the way from Boston to Bermuda and still have fuel left over.

Congrats on getting it running. Also, stop figuring how much gas and time you're spending on the commute to boat work. you'll just get depressed.

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9 hours ago, ryley said:

Congrats on getting it running. Also, stop figuring how much gas and time you're spending on the commute to boat work. you'll just get depressed.

 I’ve got a marina about 15 minutes from home/work. So if I can get it moved closer. I figure I can spend more time after work Pick up a few extra hours during  the week.  But the marina doesn’t usually take boats over 35 feet in the water    I’m trying to plead my case for dry storage over winter. With a promise to be gone by mid March.  

The moody has 55 gallon tank. So I figure I’d be able to get half way to Florida without raising a sail.   But where’s the fun in that...

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A problem with being so far away is that tool or part you did not know you needed until 1/2 way through the days project. Right now there is so much to do it does not matter, you can just move on to the next thing. When you get close to done, everything slows down, and forgetting that 13 mm deep socket gets to be a big deal. 

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1 minute ago, steele said:

A problem with being so far away is that tool or part you did not know you needed until 1/2 way through the days project. Right now there is so much to do it does not matter, you can just move on to the next thing. When you get close to done, everything slows down, and forgetting that 13 mm deep socket gets to be a big deal. 

You've discovered why I have 3 of some tools..... Usually a nice one, and 2 junkers from the boat-adjacent hardware store!

Although in rebedding all my deck gear, I've found a die-set is very helpful to clean up threads, and sprung for a nice one of those....

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41 minutes ago, steele said:

A problem with being so far away is that tool or part you did not know you needed until 1/2 way through the days project. Right now there is so much to do it does not matter, you can just move on to the next thing. When you get close to done, everything slows down, and forgetting that 13 mm deep socket gets to be a big deal. 

Living 5 minutes from my boat is a huge benefit for that very reason.

I have a number of duplicate tools I purchased for other boats that I lived a distance from - had to run out & buy them in the middle of a project because I forgot the one I already owned at home. :(

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

You've discovered why I have 3 of some tools..... Usually a nice one, and 2 junkers from the boat-adjacent hardware store!

Although in rebedding all my deck gear, I've found a die-set is very helpful to clean up threads, and sprung for a nice one of those....

That scenario is what prompted my post. I was rebedding stantions only to discover that the threads were galled by the builder who looked to have cut off the excess with an angle grinder. The nut came off, but would not thread back on. Faced with leaving a 3/4 hole in the deck with rain on the way I made the 1 hour round trip home to pick up a dremel tool. It was good enough to clean up the end of the stantion without needing to buy a die-set.

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7 hours ago, Raz'r said:

You've discovered why I have 3 of some tools..... Usually a nice one, and 2 junkers from the boat-adjacent hardware store!

Although in rebedding all my deck gear, I've found a die-set is very helpful to clean up threads, and sprung for a nice one of those....

The marina has a west marine on site,  and a family owned hardware store about 3 miles away. Which I’ve visited both in a pinch.  I think I have most of my tools from home on the boat,  but staying organized is a chore in an of itself...

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11 hours ago, steele said:

That scenario is what prompted my post. I was rebedding stantions only to discover that the threads were galled by the builder who looked to have cut off the excess with an angle grinder. The nut came off, but would not thread back on. Faced with leaving a 3/4 hole in the deck with rain on the way I made the 1 hour round trip home to pick up a dremel tool. It was good enough to clean up the end of the stantion without needing to buy a die-set.

Exactly the same!

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6 hours ago, Marcjsmith said:

The marina has a west marine on site,  and a family owned hardware store about 3 miles away. Which I’ve visited both in a pinch.  I think I have most of my tools from home on the boat,  but staying organized is a chore in an of itself...

Yeah, I've bought a couple nice toolboxes and take the time to unpack both at the end of the weekend, then pack again Friday night.

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hey folks.  its not all titty spinkles and rainbows...

got a fuel leak.  not much  but just enough to stink up the boat and make me start looking.  step one put paper under the engine to try to locate the drip  no luck as the drops soaked enough to make locating difficult.  roll up the sleeves and start feeling around.  was hoping for someting simple like a hose compression fitting.

no such luck.  looks like it coming form the fuel injector pump.  access won't be fun.  heat exchanger removal first, water pump removal as well, and thats just to get access so I can see the pump....

will be interesting to see how much this project morphs and creeps...

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14 hours ago, Marcjsmith said:

hey folks.  its not all titty spinkles and rainbows...

got a fuel leak.  not much  but just enough to stink up the boat and make me start looking.  step one put paper under the engine to try to locate the drip  no luck as the drops soaked enough to make locating difficult.  roll up the sleeves and start feeling around.  was hoping for someting simple like a hose compression fitting.

no such luck.  looks like it coming form the fuel injector pump.  access won't be fun.  heat exchanger removal first, water pump removal as well, and thats just to get access so I can see the pump....

will be interesting to see how much this project morphs and creeps...

Looks like this may help:

https://www.morgan38.org/morgan38/index.php?threads/leaking-fuel-injection-pump-perkins-4-108.15138/

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7 minutes ago, sailman said:

Yeah already printed that out yesterday among others.  There are a few other YouTube videos as well  the shop manual doesn’t help mulch 

 

see..  I tried taking pics to get a better view to help diagnose  but it didn’t really turn out.  There is so much going on   With supple return lines linkages and such. I just could really tell much.   Being that it drips while not running, I figure it would drip or squirt while running unless the pressure helps seat everything.

maybe once I get the heat exchanger off  I could turn it over a few times to see if I get any squirts to help localize it. 

My plan would be to take a wrench to all the fitting and such and try to snug everything up before I dive in and start ripping the pump off.  And then to decide if I want to buy a rebuild kit or do a core exchange for a rebuilt.

 

 

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I have puffed a cloud of talc to locate oil leaks. The talc adheres to the leak or drip more than the surrounding area. Works better when the leak runs down a clean (and oil free) vertical surface. Does not work well when the leak drips/drops freely without running, and does not work on oily or greasy surfaces. Leaves engine smelling baby fresh. 

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