Wayupnorth

29er Sail Track

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So, my daughter recently broke the middle part of the mast on her 29er. In the process, the sail track, which is glued on to the top part of the mast, was torn off.

I would like to fix this, but what kind of glue should I use, and what is the "correct" method for lining up mast and track, and applying pressure for the glueing?

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Thanks a lot, Allweather. I think that's what I need. Is the 3m 5200 a reliable alternative, being a one component adhesive? 

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Plexus would be better than 5200.  

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Is there any specific reason the MA425 is recommended? The long set I assume is for aligning, but if properly prepared, that shouldn't be a long process.
Would imagine something like MA310 would be a better choice than 5200, is a much lower price than MA425, and still has great composite/plastic adhesion.

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We tend to use the MA420 and have had a lot od sucess with it.

https://itwperformancepolymers.com/products/plexus/general-purpose/plexus-ma420-ao420

It's pretty quick, so you need to be well prepared.

MA425 is very good, but you need to prepare the surface more than with 420.

I would be using MA422 before MA425.

I do have a tube of MA300 in my front yard, but can't remember why, it's 1:1, where as the others are 10:1.

Both Ovington and Nautivela have small single shot/use methacrylates, and I am told they are popular.

I have always wiped it down with a Methly Cloride or a Methlyated Sprits after giving is a super light sand/scour.

The PVC (sailtrack) needs to be clean also, no oil (used in production) again either of the Methly's will do the trick.

                 jB

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Thank you, great help from @JulianB and @allweather.

The Danish 9er dealer lists Plexux MA300 as their product of choice. Other than short set time, are there any other issues, that I should focus on?

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How much do you need to retrack? I don't think there is anything particular about the job you need to watch out for.(aside proper PPE too many sailors tend to forget. Especially nitrile gloves for acetone. Mask and filters for it is probably too expensive for one time use.(if you could get them right now) Just make sure you have a very well ventilated area)

A good digital scale never hurts mixing two part glues. Aside from that it isn't witch craft.
Maybe some before after pictures?

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13 hours ago, Wayupnorth said:

Thank you, great help from @JulianB and @allweather.

The Danish 9er dealer lists Plexux MA300 as their product of choice. Other than short set time, are there any other issues, that I should focus on?

Due to the fast curing time and thickness, clean up is extremely difficult. I would suggest masking tape on either side of the area on the mast, not applying too much adhesive, and use a razor blade to cut away the excess and pull the tape once the plexus has set up — but don’t wait too long.

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The tube(s) of MA300 I have outside are 400ml.

So there is 200ml of A and  200ml of B.

image.thumb.png.b90c29c4aace12cff08f486156a7d1f6.png

You need about 1/10 - 1/8 of that to glue on a 29er topmast track on.

40-50ml (mixed) of Plexus.   Probably why the small pack Ovington/Nautivela have are so popular.   They are in a syringe type packaging.   Just put a bead about 4mm in dia down the middle of the plastic track, then use masking tape every 100mm to hold it on.    We put a bit of T section alloy (3mm WT x 18mm x 18mm) down the track, keeps it straight.

Once it gels, we just use a chiesil and remove the excess.   If you want to tart it up, fillet it with black silicon.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Again, you can tell the MA300 has not been loved for a long time and no idea why I have it.    Way past it's use-by-date!

MA420 is a 10:1 ratio, so the A tube is 1/10 the size of the B tube.

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I have a 50ml cartridge of MA310, that is a slower version of MA300. Guess I can use that one too? It´s expired but I think I will use it anyway.

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@JulianB

Somewhat different, but checking over my boat I noticed a pretty worrying crack in my 49er boom. I think I can track it back to the gooseneck fitting being bend back a bit and putting some pressure on the profile.(don't ask how that happened... :(

My idea would be to remove the fitting, drill a small hole at the end of the crack and then bolt on the fitting again together with a 2/3mm aluminium plate on top and monel blind rivets.

Does that sound like a plausible repair or should I just get over it over with and invest in a new boom?

2020_05_09-49er (1).JPG

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@allweather Yes your repair idea is pretty much perfect. Drilling a small hole with stop the crack for a while.
Looks like you have the carbon rig, so you can potentially also change to the new gooseneck fitting (would cost you about $100 in parts), and about 2 hours of work!

Since I can see you have an old slider boat - you're fine keeping that boom going as long as possible. Do you know how old the boom is? In the period of 2011 to 2013 the builders had a few iterations of booms with the end result being that the new ones are extremely durable and can support very high vang loads. That upgrade will cost a pretty penny, so probably not worth it for you.

Keep your sails in the air!

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4 hours ago, allweather said:

 

My idea would be to remove the fitting, drill a small hole at the end of the crack and then bolt on the fitting again together with a 2/3mm aluminium plate on top and monel blind rivets.

 

 

Hi Allweather,

I have the same cracks in my boom. But my idea is to use 1  or 1.5mm 316 stainless instead. No need to buy a new boom anyway, will not better your VMG.

 

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3 hours ago, cantp1 said:

Since I can see you have an old slider boat - you're fine keeping that boom going as long as possible. Do you know how old the boom is? In the period of 2011 to 2013

Should be 2011, I think. I know that the previous owner I bought it from broke their original boom shortly before I bought it and after they switched to the carbon rig. :D
While I can see the boom bend when vang is on fully(since I put the 1:4 purchase in), nothing seems to be a problem. Checked everything else over just in case and it was fine.

Looks like I'll plate it over once winter gets properly cold. Mainly as my current regular crew is busy and doesn't fancy sailing in freezing air. Switching to windsurfing for the time then and maintenance on the boat. Though getting the new fitting is an enticing proposition as I need to order a handful of parts from Ovington anyway and the part comes with more mounting holes...

3 hours ago, revintage said:

But my idea is to use 1  or 1.5mm 316

Why switch to stainless? I used that on my H-boat(vang was pulling out) and while it is nice and strong it is also a pain to bend freehand. A pain to drill and even with monel rivets and anti seize/corrosion paste the metal reacts a bit before settling. I figured a similar to original strength aluminium should be strong enough and easier to work with.

By the way, how did you get these cracks? Just stress or similar to myself suspecting the fitting to put compression on the profile where it shouldn't?

 

3 hours ago, cantp1 said:

Keep your sails in the air!

 

3 hours ago, revintage said:

will not better your VMG.

Keeping it out of the mud(bay is 2m deep in a lot of direction) is a good starting point for VMG. As is not breaking the boom in 25+knots and causing other damage^^ Plus repairs I can do on my lonesome.

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Don't switch to Stainless (strap), you are just buying yourself electrolysis issues.

As has been said, the new Boom Gooseneck is a huge improvement and will solve all the problems.   It separates the load, takes them away from the middle, it’s thicker so it spreads the load even further and it has a lot more rivets to transfer the load from the GN to the boom.

But if you wish to stay with the SS fitting, then get a bit of say 4mm x 20mm thick alloy plate and wrap it right over the front of the boom, make sure you have 2 x 3/16” monel rivets per side to transfer the load (one rivet can go thought the SS fitting, but you need another).

Guys if you stop evolving, then the old fitting are just fine, but more and more vang sheeting, loads up the front of the boom.   We load tested the whole thing and you have about 1 tonne going across the GN.

The other big plus of the new GN is it eliminates boom rotation and that in turn eliminates a multitude of other sins.

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6 hours ago, JulianB said:

Don't switch to Stainless (strap), you are just buying yourself electrolysis issues.

As has been said, the new Boom Gooseneck is a huge improvement and will solve all the problems.   It separates the load, takes them away from the middle, it’s thicker so it spreads the load even further and it has a lot more rivets to transfer the load from the GN to the boom.

Absolutely a problem if you don´t isolate as you should, but even a aluminium plate should be isolated to prevent corrosion of the plate itself. No problem even with the large ss hounds fitting of rotating mast like F18 etc. Anodized aluminium lessens the problems though.


Second thoughts about the old boom fitting: It might  be more elegant if I weld a large 1,5mm SS plate on top of it and rivet to the inside with the same pattern as the new aluminium fitting. Will check this out next time I visit the workshop.


For "allweather" with his carbon mast, 50 bucks for the new boom fitting is a steal and must be the way to go. 

About the gooseneck of the aluminium mast, will the new swiveling part fit or is it to long?

image.png.790c75130c08e82a970eb086b634acf1.png

 

image.png

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On 10/5/2020 at 1:25 PM, allweather said:

I still have the PDF for that. Only had to replace a short piece of track on my own 49er mast and found it fairly straightforward.

Hope the instructions give you everything you require.

Microsoft Word - How to track a - Oliver.pdf

 

On 10/6/2020 at 6:30 AM, JulianB said:

We tend to use the MA420 and have had a lot od sucess with it.

https://itwperformancepolymers.com/products/plexus/general-purpose/plexus-ma420-ao420

It's pretty quick, so you need to be well prepared.

MA425 is very good, but you need to prepare the surface more than with 420.

I would be using MA422 before MA425.

I do have a tube of MA300 in my front yard, but can't remember why, it's 1:1, where as the others are 10:1.

Both Ovington and Nautivela have small single shot/use methacrylates, and I am told they are popular.

I have always wiped it down with a Methly Cloride or a Methlyated Sprits after giving is a super light sand/scour.

The PVC (sailtrack) needs to be clean also, no oil (used in production) again either of the Methly's will do the trick.

                 jB

I finally got hold af everything, and got to work. Used masking tape along the outline of the sail track and inserted stir sticks into the luff groove to even out the pressure from the clamping tape. I used MA300 and because of the low temperatures around here, it didn't set too soon. There was a bit of cleaning up. I actually reused the old track... again, thank you for your help and guidelines. The mast is now back in use...

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