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If Toyota can do this, why the F^@k am I still putting a nozzle in my big wheelchair lift Van???? that I can also tow my boat with.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/if-it-works-toyota-s-fuel-cell-semi-truck-could-doom-the-startups/ar-BB19Lchs?ocid=msedgdhp

 

Like I said before, it does not matter who is in the White House, we the people will always be screwed first.

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32 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

If Toyota can do this, why the F^@k am I still putting a nozzle in my big wheelchair lift Van???? that I can also tow my boat with.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/if-it-works-toyota-s-fuel-cell-semi-truck-could-doom-the-startups/ar-BB19Lchs?ocid=msedgdhp

 

Like I said before, it does not matter who is in the White House, we the people will always be screwed first.

A friend has a Toyota Mirai. 

Not only does he have to fill it up, there is only 1 station with Hydrogen anywhere near us.

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26 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

A friend has a Toyota Mirai. 

Not only does he have to fill it up, there is only 1 station with Hydrogen anywhere near us.

That translates to opportunity if you look at the glass half full! 
and to meat 

what is wrong with competition and how is the little guy getting screwed?

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If you are old enough to remember it the first time around, you are too old for it the second time.  

Hydrogen fuel cells had their day in the late '90s.  That was the energy of the future.  

Their vision of the future is outdated.  

Hydrogen is REALLY hard to work with.  

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Why a semi, though? Because it needs the space to carry enough fuel to make it to the other fuel stop 9 states away? 

 

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3 hours ago, Bugsy said:

If you are old enough to remember it the first time around, you are too old for it the second time.  

Hydrogen fuel cells had their day in the late '90s.  That was the energy of the future.  

Their vision of the future is outdated.  

Hydrogen is REALLY hard to work with.  

 

while watching the 24 hours of LeMans the other weekend, they mentioned an upcoming change where the cars will be racing on hydrogen in a couple years.

Looks to be 2024

https://www.lemans.org/en/news/the-automobile-club-de-l-ouest-hydrogen-filling-station-in-le-mans-is-open/53992

 

If it were a dead technology, the manufacturers would not be allowing such a change.  it is the long game.

pure batteries are not going to cut it.  They destroy the environment especially getting rid of the old ones, the power grid cannot support the additional load, and charging takes too long (imagine everyone on  the gulf coast trying to get out of the way of Hurricane Delta in next 2 days if they had to use charging stations).  Hydrogen is the intermediary storage of energy to solve these issues.

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Was Kalifornia banning gasoline/diesel, or internal combustion entirely from the plebs?

It's a big market to not exploit it.

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To talk to people my children's age, it is a no brainer that 80% of us will be driving self-driving EV's in 10-20 years and ICE will go the way of the buggy whip. Lots in inconvenient truth's in the way of that vision, starting with the scalability of battery technology (VERY dirty process by the way) and grid capacity as mentioned above. I don't know if Hydrogen is any easier, but it would at least avoid the rare mineral mining issues.

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The big news for the US is who buys one of the Big Three Truck Stops.   (Pilot /Flying J, TA/Petro, Loves)

So we now have Toyota in the mix.   They need locations for Charging or Hydrogen.   The other option is start from scratch and obtain properties then build.  Hydrogen offers the immediate ability to refuel that electric does not.  An Electric Semi has to stop for the night AT A CHARGING STATION.   Not just anywhere.  A hydrogen truck could keep going.  So the Hydrogen truck could be either unmanned or with two drivers.  The electric truck would need to be able to switch out battery packs to keep going and not need a 10-12 hr break. 

Electric only truck = Day Cab = 1 driver.  Must Stop.  

Hydrogen Truck = Sleeper Cab = 24/7

A hydrogen network is consistently cited as the major issue.   $$$$$

 

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1 hour ago, On The Hard said:

To talk to people my children's age, it is a no brainer that 80% of us will be driving self-driving EV's in 10-20 years and ICE will go the way of the buggy whip. Lots in inconvenient truth's in the way of that vision, starting with the scalability of battery technology (VERY dirty process by the way) and grid capacity as mentioned above. I don't know if Hydrogen is any easier, but it would at least avoid the rare mineral mining issues.

Rare earth mineral mining , processing, disposal is a MASSIVE dirty elephant in the room... 

and if it was the standard technology today greenwennies would be protesting and self flagellating themselves  

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4 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

Rare earth mineral mining , processing, disposal is a MASSIVE dirty elephant in the room... 

and if it was the standard technology today greenwennies would be protesting and self flagellating themselves  

But fracking is acceptable?

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13 minutes ago, Major Tom said:

But fracking is acceptable?

Certainly doesn't bother me, except it screws up the market, exaggerating the price volatility. Normal oil wells don't come on as strong and done decline as fast. From what I know. I"m not in the business other than cashing royalty checks from time to time. The nightmare stories are played up by the press, who as always, have an agenda

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20 hours ago, Bugsy said:

Hydrogen is REALLY hard to work with.

Really hard to contain.

I wish someone would product a multi-fuel, external combustion steam turbine engine.

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Wouldn't a steam engine be about the least efficient means of turning chemical energy into mechanical energy?  Or did I miss something?:blink:

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1 hour ago, On The Hard said:

Certainly doesn't bother me, except it screws up the market, exaggerating the price volatility. Normal oil wells don't come on as strong and done decline as fast. From what I know. I"m not in the business other than cashing royalty checks from time to time. The nightmare stories are played up by the press, who as always, have an agenda

 

Yeah, that agenda of getting the word out. It's so inconvenient, when people tell the world what's really going on.

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If people stopped driving around then having some trucks running around bringing stuff we could not grow or make locally would not be a big deal no matter what they ran on. We move around too much. We're addicted to it. 

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On 10/7/2020 at 3:59 PM, Major Tom said:

But fracking is acceptable?

Fracking BOOMED under Obama.. it is perfectly safe 

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On 10/6/2020 at 4:49 PM, Bugsy said:

If you are old enough to remember it the first time around, you are too old for it the second time.  

Hydrogen fuel cells had their day in the late '90s.  That was the energy of the future.  

Their vision of the future is outdated.  

Hydrogen is REALLY hard to work with.  

Tech has come a long way really fast.

Just look at the Auto/ELE. I keep asking my self. Why can't I buy a Retro Package for my big van? It is perfect to remove the big diesel and put a few Ele motors in the front and all that space under can accommodate a shit load of cells. I have an extended van so I can have my Ele Wheelchair and my regular wheelchair. Does GM and everyone else know that something else is on the horizon and say do not invest in ELE?????

Why the F can't we have retro fit packages and remove the gas or diesel?

Well maybe the George Jetson era is just around the corner. I don't know but I would like too.

On 10/6/2020 at 4:29 PM, BravoBravo said:

That translates to opportunity if you look at the glass half full! 
and to meat 

what is wrong with competition and how is the little guy getting screwed?

Opportunity is in the above answer. But no one really knows except those with power.

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On 10/7/2020 at 9:34 AM, On The Hard said:

To talk to people my children's age, it is a no brainer that 80% of us will be driving self-driving EV's in 10-20 years and ICE will go the way of the buggy whip. Lots in inconvenient truth's in the way of that vision, starting with the scalability of battery technology (VERY dirty process by the way) and grid capacity as mentioned above.

But hey, It's electric.....  The kids have little concept of the mining/manufacturing needed for those EV and have not lived through 40 years of discussion of waste handling (Nuclear).  Solutions will come and we may welcome them, but rushing headlong forward when an obvious choke point or chokepoints exist?

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13 minutes ago, warbird said:

But hey, It's electric.....  The kids have little concept of the mining/manufacturing needed for those EV and have not lived through 40 years of discussion of waste handling (Nuclear).  Solutions will come and we may welcome them, but rushing headlong forward when an obvious choke point or chokepoints exist?

I had a fellow worker whose dad worked at Richland for 40yrs.  Every time he talked to his dad it was about moving the nuclear waste they were sure was safe to another spot that was extra special safe.  Three sons in the family, two are PhDs and the other an oddball in advertising.  

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18 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

Tech has come a long way really fast.

Just look at the Auto/ELE. I keep asking my self. Why can't I buy a Retro Package for my big van? It is perfect to remove the big diesel and put a few Ele motors in the front and all that space under can accommodate a shit load of cells. I have an extended van so I can have my Ele Wheelchair and my regular wheelchair. Does GM and everyone else know that something else is on the horizon and say do not invest in ELE?????

Why the F can't we have retro fit packages and remove the gas or diesel?

Well maybe the George Jetson era is just around the corner. I don't know but I would like too.

Opportunity is in the above answer. But no one really knows except those with power.

You can buy kits, knock yer boots. You'll never recover the capital costs.

Challenge is you have a shit old platform with a new engine that no one else wants.

Seems a relatively common thing for VW buses however, underpowered little shit-boxes that they already are.

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2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

You can buy kits, knock yer boots. You'll never recover the capital costs.

Challenge is you have a shit old platform with a new engine that no one else wants.

Seems a relatively common thing for VW buses however, underpowered little shit-boxes that they already are.

MeatWad has specific needs that seem to be not easily addressed.

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2 hours ago, warbird said:

MeatWad has specific needs that seem to be not easily addressed.

Yes. And how would an electric motor meet those?

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Batteries need tho go through a few more generations of massive improvement before I'd be interested in an ev.  I could easily commute most of the year with one, but winter would be sketchy when it's already sketchy.  I see quite a few electric cars in the summer, but not many in the winter.  And if it has to sit outside for ten hours before driving home, it'll be a brick.

Lithium batteries in any form don't do well in cold, the voltage sags way off and the c rating drops way down.

I love the performance aspect of q completely flat power curve, but it doesn't fit my needs currently.  Most people don't live in a frozen wasteland or need to regularly tow 10k# either

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1 hour ago, Hatin' life said:

Lithium batteries in any form don't do well in cold,

Not true for LiFePO4.  These have really great temperature/voltage curves, especially as the temperatures approach freezing.  Much better than lead-acid batteries.

That being said, all batteries do drop off as the temperatures drop.  Different technologies drop off at different rates.  You are correct in that, up where you're at, ain't much gonna function after 10 hours of -20F.

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The issue with the LiFePO4 and cold is charging, not discharging.

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3 minutes ago, IStream said:

The issue with the LiFePO4 and cold is charging, not discharging.

...and Tesla engineers were aware of the issue. It is well understood and addressed automatically by the vehicle. There are range considerations that should be considered. Gasoline vehicles also have cold weather issues.

The "free" heat generated by an ICE engine might be considered a benefit until one realizes that one pays dearly for that "free" heat all year 'round.

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22 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

...and Tesla engineers were aware of the issue. It is well understood and addressed automatically by the vehicle. There are range considerations that should be considered. Gasoline vehicles also have cold weather issues.

The "free" heat generated by an ICE engine might be considered a benefit until one realizes that one pays dearly for that "free" heat all year 'round.

I don't disagree, just clarifying the cold weather considerations with LFP.

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12 hours ago, bplipschitz said:

I must be really confused and short of coffee/liquor.  This is *not* a link to grossly overweight women in skimpy clothing?  Where am I?

Ok got it, you are making a request. I will work on that later

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11 hours ago, bplipschitz said:

Not true for LiFePO4.  These have really great temperature/voltage curves, especially as the temperatures approach freezing.  Much better than lead-acid batteries.

That being said, all batteries do drop off as the temperatures drop.  Different technologies drop off at different rates.  You are correct in that, up where you're at, ain't much gonna function after 10 hours of -20F.

What about 70 degrees below freezing?  And life batteries don't have an adequate c rating for a car application.  At least currently

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