Recommended Posts

This will only be of interest to those who have access to The Walrus, which is a Canadian magazine not unlike The Atlantic where Frum works now. The current issue, paywalled, has an excellent article about the political and intellectual evolution of David Frum including the influence his mother Barbara had on him and continues to have long after her death. For non-Canadians, Barbara Frum was a revered CBC journalist for many years. She was a fierce interviewer, very bright and objective, also a bit left of centre in Canada so a near Communist in American terms

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't believe the change in Frum over the past 3 decades.

Based on the semi-facist crap he wrote around the turn of the century, going into the '16 election I would have expected him to have been a rabid Trumper.

He's still not as smart as his mom but he sure is improving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I met Frum once at a debate where he represented the Heritage Foundation Reich - around 1995 or so. 

I told him how much I respected his Mum - she was all over the Reagan USG for its murderous wars in Central America. 

In the debate, he got his ass handed to him by Barbara Ehrenreich and Cornell West. 

(Hey, I found it on line. The year was actually 1997   https://www.c-span.org/video/?95032-1/economy-democratic-values  ) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I can't believe the change in Frum over the past 3 decades.

Based on the semi-facist crap he wrote around the turn of the century, going into the '16 election I would have expected him to have been a rabid Trumper.

He's still not as smart as his mom but he sure is improving.

See if you can get access to the Walrus article. I got in from our public library. I wonder if Frum really hasn't;t changed all that much. Rather that the world changed around him. He way be as smart as Barbara.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, fufkin said:

This may or may not be paywalled. 

https://apple.news/AqAuJrMeiSiW7Z_MEkFok0Q

The article verged on painting him as some kind of benevolent Red Tory. Sad how low the bar actually is these days.

That is the same article I mentioned above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

That is the same article I mentioned above.

I know... I posted it for anyone to read if it’s not paywalled...not sure how it works when sourced from apple news.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you guys annex the upper midwest? MN, at least? we are your friends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.

David Frum, Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.

David Frum, Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic

Where the hell has he been? They already have.

- DSK

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Voyageur said:

Can you guys annex the upper midwest? MN, at least? we are your friends.

Have to change Minneapolis police for RCMP though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Voyageur said:

Can you guys annex the upper midwest? MN, at least? we are your friends.

Wouldn't we get stuck with Wardodo as part of that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Where the hell has he been? They already have.

- DSK

Frum was the guy who coined the phrase Axis of Evil to gin up the Iraq War. He's an old school neo-con who has attained some self awareness. Having been in the swamp, he's better at explaining the swamp creatures than a David Brooks is. Brooks never fucking ever speaks to Republicans. Republicans never fucking ever quote David Brooks. Did you hear what Brooks said on PBS The News Hour? Did you read what Brooks wrote in the New York Times? Brooks writes for external consumption. Frum has written for internal consumption. So I'll take Frum's depiction as a more faithful rendition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Voyageur said:

Can you guys annex the upper midwest? MN, at least? we are your friends.

Minnesota was on my list of potential provinces since it is much like Canada in a lot of ways. it is far down the list from Hawaii of course but what you can do. 

edit: Note that I did not include Wisconsin in my list of new provinces.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Voyageur said:

Warpedbird lives behind the Cheese Curtain.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Frum was the guy who coined the phrase Axis of Evil to gin up the Iraq War. He's an old school neo-con who has attained some self awareness. Having been in the swamp, he's better at explaining the swamp creatures than a David Brooks is. Brooks never fucking ever speaks to Republicans. Republicans never fucking ever quote David Brooks. Did you hear what Brooks said on PBS The News Hour? Did you read what Brooks wrote in the New York Times? Brooks writes for external consumption. Frum has written for internal consumption. So I'll take Frum's depiction as a more faithful rendition.

From your comments I would think you have not read the article. He did come up with Axis of Evil. He was a speechwriter at the time and it was his job to come with catchy phrases like that. I think it is simiplistic to describe his as an old school neo-con. There is more to the man and his intellect and values for that matter than that. If all the conservatives in the US were like him the country would be in much better shape (a low bar I acknowledge).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Olsonist said:
43 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Where the hell has he been? They already have.

 

Frum was the guy who coined the phrase Axis of Evil to gin up the Iraq War. He's an old school neo-con who has attained some self awareness. Having been in the swamp, he's better at explaining the swamp creatures than a David Brooks is. Brooks never fucking ever speaks to Republicans. Republicans never fucking ever quote David Brooks. Did you hear what Brooks said on PBS The News Hour? Did you read what Brooks wrote in the New York Times? Brooks writes for external consumption. Frum has written for internal consumption. So I'll take Frum's depiction as a more faithful rendition.

Sure. Brooks is kind of a scholarly observer, he's an image of what many intellectual liberals -wish- conservatives were like. And he seems to have some fairly genuine "conservative" (in the old fashionedpre-troglodyte sense) opinions.

Back in the Reagan days, about 20% of self-identified conservative Republicans openly said in polls that they would prefer to disband Congress and have the USA become a military-backed dictatorship. The percent has only gone up since then, now it appears that at least 85% of Trumpublicans feel that way, except they are mistrustful that maybe the military generals are too wishy-washy namby-pamby liberal.

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

From your comments I would think you have not read the article. He did come up with Axis of Evil. He was a speechwriter at the time and it was his job to come with catchy phrases like that. I think it is simiplistic to describe his as an old school neo-con. There is more to the man and his intellect and values for that matter than that. If all the conservatives in the US were like him the country would be in much better shape (a low bar I acknowledge).

I think you're misunderstanding me. I think Frum has indeed rebelled against the Republican Party and he did this well before Shitstain took it over and made it his own. He rebelled against the Tea Party nutjobs who have since molted into the MAGA heads. But Frum was on the inside pissing out; he was a speechwriter for W and he was talking to Republicans and not to Democrats. He was on the WSJ OpEd page, the Weekly Standard, the Manhattan Institute. The dude was straight up neocon.

Consequent to that, I take what he has to say more seriously, not less seriously, than what Brooks has to say which I largely consider to be  feel good propaganda. When Frum is critical of Republicans, he pays a price with Republicans, his people. When Brooks is critical of Republicans in liberal media, he pays no price with Republicans who largely haven't even heard of him. Ask Joe the Plumber who David Brooks is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

From your comments I would think you have not read the article. He did come up with Axis of Evil. He was a speechwriter at the time and it was his job to come with catchy phrases like that.

I have not read it either, but I will observe that Frum knew exactly what he was doing by his pro-war hysteria churning. He is not stupid. 

He will get zero respect from me until he fesses up and atones for that. 

(Vets For Peace believes in redemption) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Minnesota was on my list of potential provinces since it is much like Canada in a lot of ways. it is far down the list from Hawaii of course but what you can do. 

edit: Note that I did not include Wisconsin in my list of new provinces.

Western Washington and Western Oregon can join BC.  Eastern Washington and Eastern Oregon have to go to Alberta.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

He will get zero respect from me until he fesses up and atones for that. 

This is where we disagree. I think of Frum as a kind of an Alexis St. Martin figure. I'm not expecting or even interested in an apology for Frum's Iraq War ginning. Instead, I'm interested in what he has to say about the way Republicans think. By comparison, I'm not in the least bit interested in what Brooks has to say about that or anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Laker said:

Western Washington and Western Oregon can join BC.  Eastern Washington and Eastern Oregon have to go to Alberta.

?? Do they have oil or cattle?

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are flat and full of crazy right wing militia types. Perfect for Alberta who can be a junior branch state. Sort of "evil light"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Laker said:

Western Washington and Western Oregon can join BC.  Eastern Washington and Eastern Oregon have to go to Alberta.

Gee, the negotiations have started. I didn't know we had even decided to negotiate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Olsonist said:

This is where we disagree. I think of Frum as a kind of an Alexis St. Martin figure. I'm not expecting or even interested in an apology for Frum's Iraq War ginning. Instead, I'm interested in what he has to say about the way Republicans think. By comparison, I'm not in the least bit interested in what Brooks has to say about that or anything.

I am confused. Are you talking about the 19th century Canadian guy who got shot in the stomach but the wound did not heal so doctors could see what was happening in the stomach? Not sure of the similarity to Drum other than everyone can see how his brain functions even though there is no hole in it (that I am aware of).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_St._Martin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I am confused. Are you talking about the 19th century Canadian guy who got shot in the stomach but the wound did not heal so doctors could see what was happening in the stomach? Not sure of the similarity to Drum other than everyone can see how his brain functions even though there is no hole in it (that I am aware of).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_St._Martin

Yep + sorry for the stretchy analogy. My interest in Frum is that I think we can better see into the Republican mind (Alexis St. Martin's stomach) by reading Frum. I don't think Frum is suddenly turning into some kind of proggy SJW. But he's not a con artist the way Brooks is. He detests what has happened to the Republican Party (even if he helped get it there). So when he says

Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.

I take him at his word even though I'd still reject his world view, proggy SJW that I am. To be blunt, I don't think many 'conservatives' tell the truth and that is what Frum is saying as well. Diogenes would pass over the local elk population in short order.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Laker said:

Western Washington and Western Oregon can join BC.  Eastern Washington and Eastern Oregon have to go to Alberta Syria.

Fuck that for a joke, the Redoubt can go fuck up the Middle East some more.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

?? Do they have oil or cattle?

- DSK

Wine.  And a number of French nationals who are buying into the wine scene. The Redoubt?   Turn it into a provincial anthropological museum, behind glass.  “Mommy, what are they doing?  They’re shooting the California  CALPERS retirees! It’s a bad thing!  Why mommy why? Read the sign honey!  They aren’t conservative enough to stay in this museum!”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^Haven't been on that side of the mountains for quite a spell but I bet they still have a lot of Hop yards there too, & that's always a handy thing to have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now