snubber

Log book pen anarchy

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Looking for recommendations for a waterproof pen for the log book on my 4ksb. I sometimes jot notes or make entries in rain or mist, and the book sometimes gets splashed. Until last year I was using whatever-pen-was-onhand, with modest success. Last year I upgraded to a genuine Fisher Spacepen. Writes in outer-space, upside-down, etc. It was a freebie. It smudges and smears and the ink runs if a page gets wet (ink runs through the page and smears the next page). I have looked at Amazon, read reviews, and watched videos of people drawing on paper under water. Seems like there are good options out there, but does anyone have a specific recommendation given that I will be writing in dampness. 

Snubs

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There is an old saying that NASA spent millions of dollars developing a pen that writes in space. The cosmonauts solved the problem with a 5 cent pencil..

Fact or fiction, often times it'd the simplest of solutions for the hardest problems. Why don't you take notes in a WetNotes notebook and when your in a dry environment transfer everything over to the log book?

 

 

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I use a pencil on Rite in the Rain paper. (To answer an unasked question)

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RL and El,

Thanks. A little more info about how I use my log book:

1. I use and consult my log book a lot when I am on the boat. (I see a boat at anchor I saw last year. What was the name of the crew's dog and where are they from? How deep is the water here and how is the holding here?). So, even if I am not writing in wetness, I'll be thumbing the pages and it will get damp. I would like to have one version of my log book, just because...

2. Considered using a pencil, but it seems impermanent. Do people use pencils in their log books? My log book isn't getting inspected, but it seems...so ... eraseable? 

3. I print the lines/format for my log book with sequential page numbers, then bind them into the log book. I see that I could laser print my format onto "Rite in the Rain" paper. Hmmm.

Snubs

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4 hours ago, RImike said:

There is an old saying that NASA spent millions of dollars developing a pen that writes in space. The cosmonauts solved the problem with a 5 cent pencil..

Fact or fiction, often times it'd the simplest of solutions for the hardest problems. Why don't you take notes in a WetNotes notebook and when your in a dry environment transfer everything over to the log book?

 

 

I heard something similar but they also stated that there was a problem with using graphite/pencils up there...

I’ll ask my math team and report back (they love that space stuff). 
 

update: slackers just sent me this link. 
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen/

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14 hours ago, mgs said:

I heard something similar but they also stated that there was a problem with using graphite/pencils up there...

I’ll ask my math team and report back (they love that space stuff). 
 

update: slackers just sent me this link. 
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen/

It's more or less the idea of keeping it simple

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19 hours ago, snubber said:

2. Considered using a pencil, but it seems impermanent. Do people use pencils in their log books? My log book isn't getting inspected, but it seems...so ... eraseable? 

3. I print the lines/format for my log book with sequential page numbers, then bind them into the log book. I see that I could laser print my format onto "Rite in the Rain" paper. Hmmm.

Snubs

You don't trust yourself to keep your log book honest? I often use pencil in my plain paper log book. Easier to make corrections on the fly.

Rite-in-the-Rain makes bound books of blank paper. And they have compatible anti-gravity waterproof pens if that is really necessary.

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I've kept logbooks at work and on my own boat for many years.  You learn quick data entry on whatever works, the official stuff in clean dry place. Rite in the rain like El B said, best thing you can get on a boat, with a pencil it will almost work in a down pour, have tons of them all over, use for the radio log all the time.

At work everything that gets recorded in the field is on a pad and transposed.

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I use these at work on waterproof paper. In rain they will smudge and run for first 5seconds but will write easily and legible in the dirtiest and wettest condition. I’m a lefthander which makes smudging or paper marking nearly unavoidable, but where a ballpoint fails to write these things kickass.

 

3C10E8F2-7C39-40FC-8B1A-2FF041711D80.webp

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Did you hear the one about the constipated Mathematician?
 

He sat down and worked it out with a pencil! 

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23 hours ago, El Boracho said:

You don't trust yourself to keep your log book honest? I often use pencil in my plain paper log book. Easier to make corrections on the fly.

Rite-in-the-Rain makes bound books of blank paper. And they have compatible anti-gravity waterproof pens if that is really necessary.

Of course I keep an honest log book. I want to keep a log that passes inspection and does not raise doubts in anyone's mind that I might have altered/erased something. I try to envision a worst-case scenario; an accident, legal authorities, and/or a suit. Swarming lawyers and bureaucrats infused with discretionary decisionmaking, nit picking every little detail in search of blame. My log book has never been searched, but my boat has. 

If pencils are the norm for log books, a pencil it is. 

I appreciate the insights from everyone. I always learn something from this group.

Snubs

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Dare to be different...... (No good in choppy sea state)

C966BF11-76AD-4676-BD6F-DE7B95B140F8.png

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get a look at the Fisher Space Pen...not he cheapest but might be just what you need

www.jetpens.com

I satisfy my pen addiction at Jet Pens

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10 hours ago, snubber said:

Of course I keep an honest log book. I want to keep a log that passes inspection and does not raise doubts in anyone's mind that I might have altered/erased something. I try to envision a worst-case scenario; an accident, legal authorities, and/or a suit. Swarming lawyers and bureaucrats infused with discretionary decisionmaking, nit picking every little detail in search of blame. My log book has never been searched, but my boat has. 

If pencils are the norm for log books, a pencil it is. 

I appreciate the insights from everyone. I always learn something from this group.

Snubs

Our official logbook has plenty of dolfin pictures palm trees documented cat activities etc.  I don't think the authorities will hassle you about keeping it real.  I'm super OCD about notes in the work one and have horrible handwriting, I have had to submit that one once for a big mechanical failure and no issues.  It's a very good habit to keep a rite in the rain with notes etc and once digested put it neatly in the log.  Kinda like pre email when people thought before writing... The logbook is the cursive letter mom the rite in the rain is Snapchat.

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On 10/16/2020 at 1:43 PM, sail1403 said:

get a look at the Fisher Space Pen...not he cheapest but might be just what you need

www.jetpens.com

I satisfy my pen addiction at Jet Pens

I used a Fisher Space Pen. I pulled the cartridge and checked. It's the real deal. And it runs and bleeds through the paper and smears the underlying paper. Not a fan. 

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On 10/16/2020 at 8:17 AM, FixinGit said:

Dare to be different...... (No good in choppy sea state)

C966BF11-76AD-4676-BD6F-DE7B95B140F8.png

thumb_it-was-only-a-minor-earthquake-but

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I want to keep a log that passes inspection

What inspection requires a log book?  

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I keep a moleskine pocket-size bound book with a pencil on deck as my "rough log".  Everything gets scribbled in there.... wind/sea observations, waypoints, bearings, cool stuff I've seen, whatever.

I periodically transcribe the interesting/useful bits to a "smooth log" on my computer, which gets printed out and added into the binder at the nav table.  I can easily find things I want to use as a reference, and if there's any question I can always show where in the "rough log" that note came from.

I've tried using pen for the deck log but... its useless when the paper is damp.

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On 10/14/2020 at 12:13 PM, RImike said:

There is an old saying that NASA spent millions of dollars developing a pen that writes in space. The cosmonauts solved the problem with a 5 cent pencil..

Fact or fiction, often times it'd the simplest of solutions for the hardest problems. Why don't you take notes in a WetNotes notebook and when your in a dry environment transfer everything over to the log book?

 

 

SpacePen

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On 10/17/2020 at 1:02 PM, snubber said:

I used a Fisher Space Pen. I pulled the cartridge and checked. It's the real deal. And it runs and bleeds through the paper and smears the underlying paper. Not a fan. 

are you having an issues writing in wet conditions/wet paper or after you write and it gets wet?

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8 minutes ago, sail1403 said:

are you having an issues writing in wet conditions/wet paper or after you write and it gets wet?

re-read the OP a rite in the rain notebook might be the way to go and then copy over to the official log

 

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Assuming you are recreational so don't have any legal requirements to maintain a logbook in pen, just use a pencil. In over 5 years of worldwide cruising and 30 or more countries, no-one ever even looked at our logbook, let alone cared that it was in pencil. A nice mechanical pencil with a soft lead worked very well for us. And though it can be deliberately erased, it doesn't unexpectedly smudge or smear or fade if it gets wet.

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On land, my go-to waterproof pen when my "waterproof" blue/black fountain pen ink isn't good enough (most of the time) is the Pilot G2.

For taking notes at sea, another interesting option is Clean Room Notebooks. Intended for clean room use, they are made of polymer sheets so that you don't flake off bits of paper with your regular notebook. Sharpies work well on them.

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On 10/17/2020 at 1:02 PM, snubber said:

I used a Fisher Space Pen. I pulled the cartridge and checked. It's the real deal. And it runs and bleeds through the paper and smears the underlying paper. Not a fan. 

Snub

I really think its all about the paper...go over to penaddict.com and search 

they have a couple reviews...if you current paper is getting wet and you then use any pen it will smudge/smear a little

put there are Apica Journals just for wet locations (also available @ jetpens I have no affiliation with them besides spending lots of $ there)  

for my work, construction I have searched and found pens that will not smear...when I do my take offs and get totals I highlight totals when entered into my Excel sheets for years certain ball points and gel inks will smear...but through hundreds of dollars spent I have found some of my favorites...but I don't start with a wet page

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This reminds me of the murder mystery "Man Overboard!" by Freeman Wills Crofts (1936), in which a brand of pencil helps lead Inspector French to the solution.

image.png.eeeecc33a280853b14a3c4138f8d7c95.png

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5 hours ago, Bull City said:

This reminds me of the murder mystery "Man Overboard!" by Freeman Wills Crofts (1936), in which a brand of pencil helps lead Inspector French to the solution.

image.png.eeeecc33a280853b14a3c4138f8d7c95.png

Inspector French would be stymied by any murders on my 4ksb, since I was using a pen all these years. I sail solo, so I don't have chances to explore my homicidal tendencies while trimming the main. 

I appreciate the insights and advice from everyone on this thread. I learned a lot. Pencil is perfectly okay and paper quality matters. I think most of my problems arose when I transitioned from a pre-bound, lined notebook as my log book (which held ink just fine), to printing blank log book pages on copier paper (which was of dubious quality, perhaps). 

Snubs

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On 11/8/2020 at 4:02 PM, snubber said:

Inspector French would be stymied by any murders on my 4ksb, since I was using a pen all these years. I sail solo, so I don't have chances to explore my homicidal tendencies while trimming the main. 

I appreciate the insights and advice from everyone on this thread. I learned a lot. Pencil is perfectly okay and paper quality matters. I think most of my problems arose when I transitioned from a pre-bound, lined notebook as my log book (which held ink just fine), to printing blank log book pages on copier paper (which was of dubious quality, perhaps). 

Snubs

I use your technique of printed blank logbook pages 

With common printer ink the print  will run when you get it wet 

Next time use water resistant printer  ink 

 

https://www.thriftyfun.com/Using-Waterproof-Printer-Ink.html

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2 hours ago, slug zitski said:

I use your technique of printed blank logbook pages 

With common printer ink the print  will run when you get it wet 

Next time use water resistant printer  ink 

 

https://www.thriftyfun.com/Using-Waterproof-Printer-Ink.html

Thanks Slug Z. I laser printed my pages to avoid problems with bubble-jet/ink-jet ink, and my printed text/formatting has not run. 

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