JimBowie

Nuclear Sailing

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Interesting technical tadbit from the mythical front page today https://sailinganarchy.com/2020/10/15/nuclear-wind/.  Looks like these speed junkies want to hit around 100mph.  Is there a limit to a wind powered craft that follows some rules of nature?  How much faster than the wind can any craft sail?  Assuming its 2X these people will need 50MPH breeze to push them along, or are they planning to set the record during a hurricane?

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Nothing new here... Move along...  :D

 

 

These guys (students) worked something similar on a small scale 12 years ago... Apparently, not the same guys.

Yes, in French, again...

Bloody crazy French engineers!

There is a pdf document as a thesis of this student; but the file size is too big for me to upload here. It is in French as well.

The idea is simple: eliminate heeling moment, so you are not limited on the amount of thrust you can apply. To do that, no lever arm between the aerodynamic forces on the "rig"' and the center of lateral resistance of the "underbody/hull"...

The tricky part is in the controls... As you can see above, not only they were able to make it stable, but they made it completely autonomous! Pretty impressive.

 

 

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1 hour ago, JimBowie said:

How much faster than the wind can any craft sail?  Assuming its 2X

By sailing at 80 degrees to the wind, a boat could, in theory, travel almost six times as fast as the wind.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/nov/17/how-sail-faster-than-wind-vestas-sailrocket-sailing-weatherwatch#:~:text=By sailing at 80 degrees,as fast as the wind.

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disruptive innovation....... where have we heard that before?

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I would think that that type of development would start with models and prototypes, not with flashy promotion.

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Fundraising with flashy promo first, then models and prototypes! :D

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It’s a double handed foiling kiteboard. To lower the drag they added a fuselage.

This rig doesn’t qualify as sailing.
 

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Looks way more doable than sailrocket. Way more stable, and likely way more scaleable... imagine this but carrying 50 passengers... instead of two mad Frenchmen.

Just don't want to hit a whale at that speed...

 

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It kind of looked like 2 Bleriots connected by a string, which is pretty damned cool, in a Steampunk sort of way. Aside from how much drag a string has at the air/water interface.  :blink:  At a certain speed and string tension, does the string resonate?  It’s kind of a bluff body.  A tiny bluff body. At a pretty small Reynolds # too....  Can you imagine seeing one of those things at night at speed?  It would as freaky as a nuclear attack submarine surfacing at night and not turning the orange light on right away. (I just split an infinitive!  Metaphorical, huh?)  In a phosphorescent sea.  Like the Straights of Juan de Fuca.  Hell, use a diving flag as a visual aid, instead of the little white flag.  Jaws! 
 

Crew quarters submerged, suspended, or flying?  

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2 hours ago, DrWatson said:

Looks way more doable than sailrocket. Way more stable, and likely way more scaleable... imagine this but carrying 50 passengers... instead of two mad Frenchmen.

Just don't want to hit a whale at that speed...

 

Kind of like hitting a deer while riding a motorcycle, just when you’re going fast enough to leave the sound of the motor behind......

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Bernoulli would be proud. 
Cavitating venturis and a balancing loop in the system.. 

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12 hours ago, basketcase said:

disruptive innovation....... where have we heard that before?

And the offices and the people are....so....pretty?  I’m going to grow a ponytail!  And maybe even shave!

Has anyone put an observation pod in a superyacht ballast keel bulb?  Kind of along the lines of outlawed swimming pool underwater windows except more confined?

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1 hour ago, Amati said:

And the offices and the people are....so....pretty?

I know, Let's give them some money.

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4 hours ago, DrWatson said:

Looks way more doable than sailrocket. Way more stable, and likely way more scaleable

I'm not convinced.

  • The underwater foil is the same as Sailrocket
  • The solid wing/sail attached to the fuselage has been replaced with a kite; the kite could potentially be up in better wind, but may not be as easy to control, and will presumably lack the sophistication of the wing
  • They've ditched the floats completely, which should reduce drag, but potentially makes the whole thing a lot harder to control

If I recall correctly, Sailrocket's main limiting factor was the underwater foil. Unless these guys have made a breakthrough in that area, they've just given themselves some additional control challenges, and a potentially draggier sail, without addressing the fundamental limitation.

That said, I very much hope I'm wrong, it would be very cool if it worked!

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2 hours ago, Amati said:

And the offices and the people are....so....pretty?  I’m going to grow a ponytail!  And maybe even shave!

Has anyone put an observation pod in a superyacht ballast keel bulb?  Kind of along the lines of outlawed swimming pool underwater windows except more confined?

I read somewhere that the Sailing Yacht ‘A’ has an observation lounge in such a position. 

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3 hours ago, Amati said:

And the offices and the people are....so....pretty?  I’m going to grow a ponytail!  And maybe even shave!

Has anyone put an observation pod in a superyacht ballast keel bulb?  Kind of along the lines of outlawed swimming pool underwater windows except more confined?

i had to look it up...... "The power of this boat, its disruptive technology, the design interface--it's all part of the entrepreneurial experience in New York," a quote from the owner of.....rainmaker. and we all know how that turned out.

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12 hours ago, Amati said:

Another golden age, and maybe....

and maybe...?? Are you thinking of buying ‘A’?. its up for sale i think.

If so, dibs on crew spot.

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16 hours ago, Dave S said:

I'm not convinced.

  • The underwater foil is the same as Sailrocket
  • The solid wing/sail attached to the fuselage has been replaced with a kite; the kite could potentially be up in better wind, but may not be as easy to control, and will presumably lack the sophistication of the wing
  • They've ditched the floats completely, which should reduce drag, but potentially makes the whole thing a lot harder to control

If I recall correctly, Sailrocket's main limiting factor was the underwater foil. Unless these guys have made a breakthrough in that area, they've just given themselves some additional control challenges, and a potentially draggier sail, without addressing the fundamental limitation.

That said, I very much hope I'm wrong, it would be very cool if it worked!

From the front page, Mr Larson gave a qualified opinion: https://youtu.be/uJ_A9-ddNKU

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2 hours ago, ALL@SEA said:

From the front page, Mr Larson gave a qualified opinion: https://youtu.be/uJ_A9-ddNKU

2 hours is too much, at what time dies he gives his opinion ?

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10 hours ago, yl75 said:

2 hours is too much, at what time dies he gives his opinion ?

From roughly 1h 20min. Yeah, 2 hours was a long watch, but never got tedious, though it did take a few sessions to get through.

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Convalescing from a broken rib so I had the time.  I've never watched a 2 hr u tube before and I'm not that dialed into the sailing scene but that interview was great.  Paul's enthusiasm was infectious and captivating.  I've never followed sailrocket so hearing the whole story from start to finish from him was icing on the cake.  He sounds like a great guy.

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On 10/16/2020 at 1:14 AM, CaptainAhab said:

It’s a double handed foiling kiteboard. To lower the drag they added a fuselage.

This rig doesn’t qualify as sailing.
 

Why doesn't it qualify?

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2 hours ago, Huggy Bear Brown said:

Ice boaters have been doing this for decades.....  http://archive.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/08/tt/#peter

So they're planning to freeze the Atlantic and make iceboat runs to Europe?  Syroco is looking to upgrade wind-powered transportation with a view to reducing carbon footprints for cargo.  Between that and Laurent's post #2, c'est très intéressant.  Of course, what happens when the wind dies is another story.

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You must be a newb.

greenbird-dusk.jpg

In 40knts of wind, 126.4.

Where was SB and SA? Hiding at the YC bar I am guessing.

 

Yea, that is me next to the Green Bird.

P3272422.thumb.JPG.6d8551237b9275451634d43247cdece4.JPG

One for perspective.. I am 29" wide and  sitting.

P3272421.thumb.JPG.7ac7ca0eae5ba8a2c15d3bb6783a29c3.JPG

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4 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

Why doesn't it qualify?

Sailing refers to a sail being attached to a hull with a framed rig. It could be a classic sailboat, foiling sailboat, sail board, ice boat, land speeder(?)

kites are not sails

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But kites have held the world sailing speed record

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45 minutes ago, Jethrow said:

But kites have held the world sailing speed record

No. Vestas has the record. Kite & sail are not synonyms. 

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44 minutes ago, CaptainAhab said:

No. Vestas has the record. Kite & sail are not synonyms. 

 

1 hour ago, Jethrow said:

But kites have held the world sailing speed record

Indeed they did :

 

1993 Yellow Pages Simon McKeon AUS Sandy Point, AUS 46.52 kts
2004 Windsurfer Finian Maynard BVI Stes.Maries, FRA 46.82 kts
2005 Windsurfer Finian Maynard BVI Stes.Maries, FRA 48.70 kts
2008 Windsurfer Antoine Albeau FRA Stes.Maries, FRA 49.09 kts
2008 Kite-board Robert Douglas USA Luderitz, NAM 49.84 kts
2008 Kite-board Sebastien Cattelan FRA Luderitz, NAM 50.26 kts
2008 Kite-board Alexandre Caizergues FRA Luderitz, NAM 50.57 kts
2009 Hydroptere Alain Thebault FRA Hyeres, FRA 51.36 kts
2010 Kite-board Alexandre Caizergues FRA Luderitz, NAM 54.10 kts
2010 Kite-board Sebastien Cattalan FRA Luderitz, NAM 55.49 kts
2010 Kite-board Rob Douglas USA Luderitz, NAM 55.65 kts
2012 Vestas Sailrocket 2 Paul Larsen. AUS Walvis Bay NAM 59.23 kts
2012 Vestas Sailrocket 2 Paul Larsen. AUS Walvis Bay NAM 59.37 kts
2012 Vestas Sailrocket 2 Paul Larsen. AUS Walvis Bay NAM

65.45 kts

 

https://www.sailspeedrecords.com/500-metre

And Alex Caizergues, part (or lead) of this Syroco project,  holds the current kitesurf record at 57.98 kts.

note : The current windsurfing record is at 53.27 by Albeau

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4 hours ago, CaptainAhab said:

No. Vestas has the record. Kite & sail are not synonyms. 

Yeah, as above. There's a difference, I said has held not currently holds...

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On 10/16/2020 at 8:12 AM, Amati said:

And the offices and the people are....so....pretty?  I’m going to grow a ponytail!  And maybe even shave!

Has anyone put an observation pod in a superyacht ballast keel bulb?  Kind of along the lines of outlawed swimming pool underwater windows except more confined?

When and where have windows in swimming pools been outlawed? Did several of them in the last 6 years in phx.

 

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51 minutes ago, Baldur said:

When and where have windows in swimming pools been outlawed? Did several of them in the last 6 years in phx.

 

It was when title 9 was getting going, and involved college women’s swim team workouts and lewd behavior among male assistant coaches behind the windows.  So much for stroke technique....  Anyway, there was a movement to get them banned at the time, don’t know how far it went.

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9 minutes ago, Amati said:

It was when title 9 was getting going, and involved college women’s swim team workouts and lewd behavior among male assistant coaches behind the windows.  So much for stroke technique....  Anyway, there was a movement to get them banned at the time, don’t know how far it went.

And you know this how???

woman-in-swimming-pool-zena-holloway.jpg

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On 10/16/2020 at 12:14 AM, CaptainAhab said:

It’s a double handed foiling kiteboard. To lower the drag they added a fuselage.

This rig doesn’t qualify as sailing.
 

19 hours ago, CaptainAhab said:

Sailing refers to a sail being attached to a hull with a framed rig. It could be a classic sailboat, foiling sailboat, sail board, ice boat, land speeder(?)

kites are not sails

Some people just don't get it.

Sailing is sailing, Water, Ice Land or even Gliding. if you use the wind for thrust, it is sailing. After all gliders are called Sailplanes.

 

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Rasputin- swimming family, multiple all Americans, and one professional coach still at it.  Gossip gets around.

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