Bristol-Cruiser

An impending crisis for PA

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Let's assume that Trump gets killed in the election and goes into a coma until Biden assumes office. After that day in January what the hell are we going to talk about on PA? 

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I am making the transition to mini transat, vendee globe and jules verne.....and look forward to a much lower blood pressure.

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I have a good barbecue rub recipe

i’m sure phelonious Tom can come up with some topics that he dredges up from 2013

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7 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Let's assume that Trump gets killed in the election and goes into a coma until Biden assumes office. After that day in January what the hell are we going to talk about on PA? 

Are you sure the election will be settled by January?  Topics might include Acting President Pelosi in a tizzy issuing EOs  -OR- Pence issuing an executive orders overturning Roe v. Wade or whatever your favorite SCOTUS decision is.

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9 minutes ago, dacapo said:

I have a good barbecue rub recipe

beware, you can make some real enemies talkin' BBQ

- DSK

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I wouldn't worry, the old gang will be back.

Loins freshly girded for battle.

I mean, you'll have an old uncle for president and a african/american/indian WOMAN for VP.

You seriously think their won't be loads to banter about?

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35 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Let's assume that Trump gets killed in the election and goes into a coma until Biden assumes office. After that day in January what the hell are we going to talk about on PA? 

You have no idea how much I pray for boredom and not much of note going on.

I think we are going to see something for the next few months straight out of some dystopian sci-fi movie.

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2 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

You have no idea how much I pray for boredom and not much of note going on.

I think we are going to see something for the next few months straight out of some dystopian sci-fi movie.

With McConnell and a few others we already have The Walking Dead

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Were you in a coma for the Obama years? There’ll be a string of nontroversys for our elk to froth over (and the ballless libertarians too - hi fat n furious Tom!) Fuck those dumbfucks are still frothing over Hillary. They are stupid, entitled and internet enabled, they need their fucking entertainment. If they can’t get it from Faux they’ll go QANON.

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The so called old gang can stay hidden for all I care. They turned and ran when Trump sank into shameless policies against coronavirus, when the economy failed, when he made so many attempts to dismantle the ACA, his failure to honor his pledge to release his tax returns, his preoccupation to dismantle everything Obama, in detriment to many good policies beneficial to the United States, his use of Twitter to run policy, derision, and hate, his condemnation of John McCain for being captured, his constant stream of lies and made up stories, his promise to bring peace and disarmament to North Korea, his unforgivable handling of immigration at the border, his dismantling of transgender, LGBTQ rights, his use of "Fake News" slurs to further his weak leadership, his constant calls for division among Americans, how he damaged American intelligence, his rejection of the Paris Agreement, his golf outings, after pledging to never take a vacation, to never spend time golfing. I could go on.

The point is we have struggled through crisis after crisis, tolerated hate talk, lies, division, all without our friends from the right.  I will only have deaf ears to those that disappeared from these pages. They lost the right to be heard, the right to complain.

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1 hour ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Let's assume that Trump gets killed in the election and goes into a coma until Biden assumes office. After that day in January what the hell are we going to talk about on PA? 

The deficit.

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2 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Let's assume that Trump gets killed in the election and goes into a coma until Biden assumes office. After that day in January what the hell are we going to talk about on PA? 

PHRF ratings

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2 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

...what the hell are we going to talk about on PA? 

Hilariously contrived SCOTUS decisions along party lines?  Racist and obstructionist comedy by the 47 (R) Senators? Will whatever the Tea Party became in the House opposition be fun to ridicule? Criticizing Biden for his remarkably conservative administration? Following the news about the hundreds of corruption trials underway? Laughing as the PA Trumpaloos (with new handles) disavow ever supporting Trump in any way? Commenting on Melania's dating and sexual escapades? Can mid-terms will be a hot subject as the disenfranchised racists instill visceral fear of a black woman as President.?

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Hopefully we will have a steady run of threads bitching about how the newly passed MFA and UBI will destroy the country. That would make me happy. I am reading Utopia for Realists now, really excellent book. I am hoping that Biden takes a serious look at some of this. I think it is going to be the best, maybe only, way out of the economic malaise I expect as we come out of the pandemic and recession. Businesses now know that an additional value prop for automation is that machines do not contract viruses, so I expect that new investment will have more reasons to focus on automation and that we will not see hiring really ramp up as we have seen in the past. We may never see hiring ramp up like that again. The big business lessons are that large central offices are risky, static supply chains are risky, and hiring humans is risky. Look for business to focus on mitigating those risks. 

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1 hour ago, LenP said:

Hopefully we will have a steady run of threads bitching about how the newly passed MFA and UBI will destroy the country. That would make me happy. I am reading Utopia for Realists now, really excellent book. I am hoping that Biden takes a serious look at some of this. I think it is going to be the best, maybe only, way out of the economic malaise I expect as we come out of the pandemic and recession. Businesses now know that an additional value prop for automation is that machines do not contract viruses, so I expect that new investment will have more reasons to focus on automation and that we will not see hiring really ramp up as we have seen in the past. We may never see hiring ramp up like that again. The big business lessons are that large central offices are risky, static supply chains are risky, and hiring humans is risky. Look for business to focus on mitigating those risks. 

This is the conundrum of UBI, MFA and automation.  If there are less people working due to automation, where is the tax revenue going to come from to pay their UBI?  You can't just tax the rich enough to cover both UBI and MFA if there are less and less people contributing to the tax coffers.  

Reducing the defense budget will help, but it still won't solve the issue of where is the money going to come from.

And for the record, I'm not opposed to either UBI or MFA.  I just don't think the details have been well thought through on how to implement and pay for either on a large scale.  UBI in particular would have both good and bad societal impacts beyond just the cost that I don't think are well understood.  I think there would be a massive domino effect throughout society that gets into the law of unintended consequences.  However, that's an entirely different thread subject that I think is worth exploring sometime.  

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2 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

This is the conundrum of UBI, MFA and automation.  If there are less people working due to automation, where is the tax revenue going to come from to pay their UBI?  You can't just tax the rich enough to cover both UBI and MFA if there are less and less people contributing to the tax coffers.  

Reducing the defense budget will help, but it still won't solve the issue of where is the money going to come from.

64611905-printing-money-100-dollar-bills

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4 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Let's assume that Trump gets killed in the election and goes into a coma until Biden assumes office.

Curiously contradictory wording for a teacher. :D

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There will be a tweak to health care that big insurance/pharma helps write. Bullshitters will howl.

Corporate welfare will look a little different. Bullshitters will howl.

Corona continues to infect people. Bullshitters will blame Obiden.

 

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Don't worry, right wingers have plenty of ways to peddle their paranoid fantasies:

Newt speaking on the house floor over c-span

Talk radio

Fox news

Breitbart

Russian trolls

Q-anon

I'm sure they'll come up with something.

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

This is the conundrum of UBI, MFA and automation.  If there are less people working due to automation, where is the tax revenue going to come from to pay their UBI?  You can't just tax the rich enough to cover both UBI and MFA if there are less and less people contributing to the tax coffers.  

Ahh, the conundrum faced by Jeffreaux when faced with the fact the poor don’t pay much already because theyve no money.

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Everything will be so tremendously powerful with Biden & Harris we’ll only be left with local zoning laws to bicker about. Let the good times begin. 

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

This is the conundrum of UBI, MFA and automation.  If there are less people working due to automation, where is the tax revenue going to come from to pay their UBI?  You can't just tax the rich enough to cover both UBI and MFA if there are less and less people contributing to the tax coffers. ...

Obviously the investor class that invests in automation will see increased profits (otherwise why do it?). And obviously those profits shouldn't be taxed because....um...communism or something? Another commie idea...VAT...would capture robot output as well. But we cannot have that, nice things, because a huge segment of the USA electorate fights having nice things at every turn. Every single time. Now we know these voters would rather burn it down than have and share nice things.

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5 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Let's assume that Trump gets killed in the election and goes into a coma until Biden assumes office. After that day in January what the hell are we going to talk about on PA? 

A repeat of 2009. Bullshitters will get all holier than thou about fiscal responsibility, integrity, telling the truth, etc., while seemingly forgetting that the Trump Presidency ever happened. 

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

This is the conundrum of UBI, MFA and automation.  If there are less people working due to automation, where is the tax revenue going to come from to pay their UBI?  You can't just tax the rich enough to cover both UBI and MFA if there are less and less people contributing to the tax coffers.  

Reducing the defense budget will help, but it still won't solve the issue of where is the money going to come from.

And for the record, I'm not opposed to either UBI or MFA.  I just don't think the details have been well thought through on how to implement and pay for either on a large scale.  UBI in particular would have both good and bad societal impacts beyond just the cost that I don't think are well understood.  I think there would be a massive domino effect throughout society that gets into the law of unintended consequences.  However, that's an entirely different thread subject that I think is worth exploring sometime.  

I think you have a pretty simplistic view of how taxation can and should work. As someone pointed out, automation is not being done so corporations make less money. Economic activity will increase as will wealth. Lots of sources of tax could be used. The most obvious is a wealth tax a la Picketty. A VAT makes sense as does a tax on financial transactions. You could even have a tax on the automation systems that take away jobs. None of these are likely with the mainstream of either political party but in the future they may become obvious and needed.

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I'll bet Biden has a tan suit somewhere in his closet.  He might also salute with a latte in his hand just for old times sake.  The horror.

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

A repeat of 2009. Bullshitters will get all holier than thou about fiscal responsibility, integrity, telling the truth, etc., while seemingly forgetting that the Trump Presidency ever happened. 

Well in 2009, they managed to forget that the W administration had ever existed; so they certainly are practiced in the art of conveniently forgetting.

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PA used to be more interesting before the entire country went full retard.

It's no fun pointing out the stupid shit an idiot does.

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3 hours ago, Burning Man said:

This is the conundrum of UBI, MFA and automation.  If there are less people working due to automation, where is the tax revenue going to come from to pay their UBI?  You can't just tax the rich enough to cover both UBI and MFA if there are less and less people contributing to the tax coffers.  

Reducing the defense budget will help, but it still won't solve the issue of where is the money going to come from.

And for the record, I'm not opposed to either UBI or MFA.  I just don't think the details have been well thought through on how to implement and pay for either on a large scale.  UBI in particular would have both good and bad societal impacts beyond just the cost that I don't think are well understood.  I think there would be a massive domino effect throughout society that gets into the law of unintended consequences.  However, that's an entirely different thread subject that I think is worth exploring sometime.  

It would cost a lot less than you might think, and it does not mean there is no work done by folks. There is always going to be a need for humans in the mix somewhere, and those folks will be making plenty of income. Paying for it would not be a problem, particularly if you consider the net of removing the existing hodgepodge of a safety net which does not work well if at all. It would mean that people would not be faced with a choice of starving or becoming homeless or working 3 really bad part time jobs, so they could find work that is actually meaningful and valuable to society at a pace that the economy can support instead of taking people who are capable of a lot more and putting them into menial jobs that machines could do much better. Read the book, it is well worth the time investment. 

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7 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Let's assume that Trump gets killed in the election and goes into a coma until Biden assumes office. After that day in January what the hell are we going to talk about on PA? 

There will be a slew of new folks, who sound remarkably like the current Faithful, who will rail against President Biden while professing to have not supported/defended President Trump.

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21 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Well in 2009, they managed to forget that the W administration had ever existed; so they certainly are practiced in the art of conveniently forgetting.

Exactly. The same thing will happen. We’ve seen that playbook. It’s not like bullshitters are going to start playing it straight. They’re going to do what they were taught to do. 

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2 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Ahh, the conundrum faced by Jeffreaux when faced with the fact the poor don’t pay much already because theyve no money.

But I’m not talking about the poor and you know that, shit for brains. We’re talking about what’s left of the middle class who pay the bulk of the taxes. When those jobs are lost to automation and offices closing, then there truly will no money left. As I said you can’t tax the rich enough to pay for all of those two major programs under discussion. 

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6 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

We’re talking about what’s left of the middle class who pay the bulk of the taxes

Start educating yourself Jeffy.  If the country really needed taxes they would not let rich people pay nothing.

Taxes are no longer required to fund anything much at National level.  Only States need taxes because they cannot print their own money.

Oh wait ... there are parts of the Fed in States.

Carry on anyway.

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Just now, astro said:

Start educating yourself Jeffy.

Taxes are no longer required to fund anything much at National level.  Only States need taxes because they cannot print their own money.

Oh wait ... there are parts of the Fed in States.

Carry on anyway.

Really?  So the answer to lack of tax revenue is just print more money?  Fuck, it’s all so simple. Why the fuck haven’t we just been doing this all along?

smh

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1 minute ago, Burning Man said:

Really?  So the answer to lack of tax revenue is just print more money?  Fuck, it’s all so simple. Why the fuck haven’t we just been doing this all along?

smh

You have been.  That's what the debt clock shows, the difference between the money printed and spent and the money taken in taxes.

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6 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Really?  So the answer to lack of tax revenue is just print more money?  Fuck, it’s all so simple. Why the fuck haven’t we just been doing this all along?

smh

I thought you have been doing this all along.

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7 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

You have no idea how much I pray for boredom and not much of note going on.

I think we are going to see something for the next few months straight out of some dystopian sci-fi movie.

Wait until Hillary opens up that chain of pizza parlors she's always secretly wanted.  

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55 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Really?  So the answer to lack of tax revenue is just print more money?  Fuck, it’s all so simple. Why the fuck haven’t we just been doing this all along?

smh

Didn’t Clinton (Bill, not the chick who scares the bejeezus out of you) figure out this problem like 28 years ago? Gingrich, he no like. But it worked and the Gingrich then tried to take credit for it (while impeaching the Bill (and getting booted by his own majority (before running for President))).

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8 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Let's assume that Trump gets killed in the election and goes into a coma until Biden assumes office. After that day in January what the hell are we going to talk about on PA? 

I'm pretty sure we'll still be able to wind the dummies up over Benghazi and Hillary's e-mails.

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

But I’m not talking about the poor and you know that, shit for brains. We’re talking about what’s left of the middle class who pay the bulk of the taxes. 

They don’t pay the bulk of the taxes Jeffreaux. The middle class- roughly AGI $50k-$200k pay ~35% of income tax collected. A majority of income tax (60%) is paid by returns with AGI >$200k. ~10% of individual income tax is paid by returns with AGI >$10,000,000. You can look it up at the IRS website.

Quote

Returns with Modified Taxable Income:  Tax Generated

https://www.irs.gov/statistics/soi-tax-stats-individual-statistical-tables-by-size-of-adjusted-gross-income#_grp3

I know your beliefs are comforting, try reality.

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Has anyone mentioned The Trials yet?

Taking bet's on how soon the word Kafka or Kafkaesque appear in a thread title.

Biden has promised not to vindictively lead a charge for the prosecution of White House criminals.

Who will be his AG pick? Cuomo? :D

No worries, there'll be plenty to fight about discuss .

 

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2 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Has anyone mentioned The Trials yet?

Taking bet's on how soon the word Kafka or Kafkaesque appear in a thread title.

Biden has promised not to vindictively lead a charge for the prosecution of White House criminals.

Who will be his AG pick? Cuomo? :D

No worries, there'll be plenty to fight about discuss .

 

I'm hoping Sally Yates or Preet Bharara.

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2 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Has anyone mentioned The Trials yet?

Taking bet's on how soon the word Kafka or Kafkaesque appear in a thread title.

Biden has promised not to vindictively lead a charge for the prosecution of White House criminals.

Who will be his AG pick? Cuomo? :D

No worries, there'll be plenty to fight about discuss .

 

Or Sheldon Whitehouse.

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4 hours ago, Burning Man said:
6 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Ahh, the conundrum faced by Jeffreaux when faced with the fact the poor don’t pay much already because theyve no money.

But I’m not talking about the poor and you know that, shit for brains. We’re talking about what’s left of the middle class who pay the bulk of the taxes. When those jobs are lost to automation and offices closing, then there truly will no money left. As I said you can’t tax the rich enough to pay for all of those two major programs under discussion. 

It's real simple.

When robots start making every thing very inexpensive, and we have tremendous unemployment because there will be almost no employment except giving CEOs blowjobs and the toxic sludge that results from robot's power supplies, we simply take the stuff that robots make and distribute it for free to all the people that USED to be employed. Remember to save your last seven years tax returns for proof

- DSK

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5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's real simple.

When robots start making every thing very inexpensive, and we have tremendous unemployment because there will be almost no employment except giving CEOs blowjobs and the toxic sludge that results from robot's power supplies, we simply take the stuff that robots make and distribute it for free to all the people that USED to be employed. Remember to save your last seven years tax returns for proof

- DSK

Yeah, right..... that'll happen.  

Says no one, ever.  

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1 minute ago, Burning Man said:

Yeah, right..... that'll happen.  

Says no one, ever.  

“Qu’ils mangent de la brioche”
 

worked out real well.

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3 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

“Qu’ils mangent de la brioche”
 

worked out real well.

guillotine.jpg

At least he won't have to wear a mask.

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11 hours ago, Burning Man said:
11 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's real simple.

When robots start making every thing very inexpensive, and we have tremendous unemployment because there will be almost no employment except giving CEOs blowjobs and the toxic sludge that results from robot's power supplies, we simply take the stuff that robots make and distribute it for free to all the people that USED to be employed. Remember to save your last seven years tax returns for proof

 

Yeah, right..... that'll happen.  

Says no one, ever.  

It's obvious my sense of humor is annoying to you... to which I say, awwwwwww pore widdle snowflake

But it's a serious question, a very serious problem. What is happening to the middle class is only going to get worse as automation increases.

So turn the question around. Instead of asking "what is going to happen to all the people hose jobs are taken by robots" how about asking "since everyone except corporate overlords is going to be dirt-poor, who is going to buy all this stuff that robots are making?"

- DSK

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Someone's questioning the ability of PA to come up with something to argue about?

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20 hours ago, Burning Man said:

We’re talking about what’s left of the middle class who pay the bulk of the taxes. 

  • In 2017, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent.

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11 minutes ago, nolatom said:

Someone's questioning the ability of PA to come up with something to argue about?

HA!  Well played.

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6 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:
  • In 2017, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent.

Are you suggesting there is no middle class in that top 50%?  To be in the top 50%, you need only make $41K.  So I'll save you some time and give away the answer as YES.

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On 10/18/2020 at 10:31 AM, badlatitude said:

The so called old gang can stay hidden for all I care. They turned and ran when Trump sank into shameless policies against coronavirus, when the economy failed, when he made so many attempts to dismantle the ACA, his failure to honor his pledge to release his tax returns, his preoccupation to dismantle everything Obama, in detriment to many good policies beneficial to the United States, his use of Twitter to run policy, derision, and hate, his condemnation of John McCain for being captured, his constant stream of lies and made up stories, his promise to bring peace and disarmament to North Korea, his unforgivable handling of immigration at the border, his dismantling of transgender, LGBTQ rights, his use of "Fake News" slurs to further his weak leadership, his constant calls for division among Americans, how he damaged American intelligence, his rejection of the Paris Agreement, his golf outings, after pledging to never take a vacation, to never spend time golfing. I could go on.

The point is we have struggled through crisis after crisis, tolerated hate talk, lies, division, all without our friends from the right.  I will only have deaf ears to those that disappeared from these pages. They lost the right to be heard, the right to complain.

 

THIS!!!! ^^^^^^^^^  Trump thrives on HATE!!  It is his raison d'etre!  It will be great if Joe wins and we rejoin the WHO and Paris Accord, and others........

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10 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Are you suggesting there is no middle class in that top 50%?  

Nope.  But the middle class hasn't paid the bulk of the taxes since before the GFC

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3 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Nope.  But the middle class hasn't paid the bulk of the taxes since before the GFC

It all depends on where you define the term "Middle class" and where you draw the percentile lines.  Lots of different definitions out there.  

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/who-middle-class-anyway

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fair point that the word 'middle class' is a nonsense term with no real definition.

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30 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Are you suggesting there is no middle class in that top 50%?  To be in the top 50%, you need only make $41K.  So I'll save you some time and give away the answer as YES.

Jeffreaux is too lazy to read.

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Middle class?  Fallacy.  The US has two classes. The truly needy and the truly greedy. 

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32 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

fair point that the word 'middle class' is a nonsense term with no real definition.

"class" is kind of a convenient catch-all, a bundle of characteristics. Income, education, family status, credit rating, wealth, appearances & pretensions if any, consumer tastes....  it should be pretty easy to agree on some ingredients in the mix even if nobody would agree on all. Of course, that just gives pretext for those that want to argue anyway.

- DSK

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If and when Trump leaves office, the principled faithful will treat any topic involving him like the currently treat the coronavirus. Pretend it doesn’t exist. 
 

Neither will go away quietly anytime soon by ignoring it, bullshitters. 

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The middle class in the US has atrophied, although there still are traces of it left. Many of the folks who consider themselves middle class are just a few months away from poverty if they lost their income. What masks the increasing poverty in our country is the deflationary trend in some consumer goods. Yes, poor people can often afford a big flat screen tv because they are cheap now, however any interruption of income would mean no food and no rent payments. There are lots of folks driving around in cars they can't afford who think they are middle class, and they can go on believing it until someone pulls the rug out from under them. My definition of middle class would have to include some level of security in the face of a job loss, and most folks have none. 

On the bright side, I do think we will see both MFA and UBI in Biden's first term, and I believe that will begin to help reset the massive income and wealth disparity we have here. Desperate people who can't afford to be out of work for even a month are not going to be able to take the time or risks to build up their income potential through education or building a business. Give people the time and resources to contribute greater value to society and they will, unfortunately most folks now have neither the time nor the resources and so they work shitty jobs for shitty pay, and convince themselves they are middle class because they can afford to but a car with a no money down 2% loan. That is closer to indentured servitude than middle class, but many have been convinced it is the latter not the former.  

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5 minutes ago, LenP said:

The middle class in the US has atrophied, although there still are traces of it left. Many of the folks who consider themselves middle class are just a few months away from poverty if they lost their income. What masks the increasing poverty in our country is the deflationary trend in some consumer goods. Yes, poor people can often afford a big flat screen tv because they are cheap now, however any interruption of income would mean no food and no rent payments. There are lots of folks driving around in cars they can't afford who think they are middle class, and they can go on believing it until someone pulls the rug out from under them. My definition of middle class would have to include some level of security in the face of a job loss, and most folks have none. 

On the bright side, I do think we will see both MFA and UBI in Biden's first term, and I believe that will begin to help reset the massive income and wealth disparity we have here. Desperate people who can't afford to be out of work for even a month are not going to be able to take the time or risks to build up their income potential through education or building a business. Give people the time and resources to contribute greater value to society and they will, unfortunately most folks now have neither the time nor the resources and so they work shitty jobs for shitty pay, and convince themselves they are middle class because they can afford to but a car with a no money down 2% loan. That is closer to indentured servitude than middle class, but many have been convinced it is the latter not the former.  

Bingo

Desperate people will work for starvation wages.

That is why "desperation" is the economic strategy for the Trumpublican Party.

- DSK

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6 hours ago, LenP said:

The middle class in the US has atrophied, although there still are traces of it left. Many of the folks who consider themselves middle class are just a few months away from poverty if they lost their income. What masks the increasing poverty in our country is the deflationary trend in some consumer goods. Yes, poor people can often afford a big flat screen tv because they are cheap now, however any interruption of income would mean no food and no rent payments. There are lots of folks driving around in cars they can't afford who think they are middle class, and they can go on believing it until someone pulls the rug out from under them. My definition of middle class would have to include some level of security in the face of a job loss, and most folks have none. 

On the bright side, I do think we will see both MFA and UBI in Biden's first term, and I believe that will begin to help reset the massive income and wealth disparity we have here. Desperate people who can't afford to be out of work for even a month are not going to be able to take the time or risks to build up their income potential through education or building a business. Give people the time and resources to contribute greater value to society and they will, unfortunately most folks now have neither the time nor the resources and so they work shitty jobs for shitty pay, and convince themselves they are middle class because they can afford to but a car with a no money down 2% loan. That is closer to indentured servitude than middle class, but many have been convinced it is the latter not the former.  

I agree with all of that with the exception that neither UBI or MFA will happen or even be proposed by Biden in his first term.  Unlikely even in his 2nd if that comes to pass.  He is old skool.  He is too far in bed with big insurance and big pharma/medicine to even consider it.  And if he did consider it, his overlords would remind him that is not a good idea because the Best Americans (NPA*) don't want it.  He's going to fight tooth and nail to save obocare as a tribute to his boss and to cement his own legacy.  Because otherwise, to admit that the ACA doesn't work would be to admit he was part of that failure.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* NPA = No Party Affiliation.  Because the REAL Best Americans don't care which party is in power, so long as they own them.  And they own both.  Just saying.  

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On 10/18/2020 at 8:54 AM, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Let's assume that Trump gets killed in the election and goes into a coma until Biden assumes office. After that day in January what the hell are we going to talk about on PA? 

Well it will be back to tits. 

And hopefully prosecutions. 

Tits and prosecutions.

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12 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

Well it will be back to tits. 

And hopefully prosecutions. 

Tits and prosecutions.

Hurray!  

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Speaking of prosecutions, Ivankas tits and of course Jarods long overdue anal probe.

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7 hours ago, LenP said:

The middle class in the US has atrophied, although there still are traces of it left. Many of the folks who consider themselves middle class are just a few months away from poverty if they lost their income. What masks the increasing poverty in our country is the deflationary trend in some consumer goods. Yes, poor people can often afford a big flat screen tv because they are cheap now, however any interruption of income would mean no food and no rent payments. There are lots of folks driving around in cars they can't afford who think they are middle class, and they can go on believing it until someone pulls the rug out from under them. My definition of middle class would have to include some level of security in the face of a job loss, and most folks have none. 

On the bright side, I do think we will see both MFA and UBI in Biden's first term, and I believe that will begin to help reset the massive income and wealth disparity we have here. Desperate people who can't afford to be out of work for even a month are not going to be able to take the time or risks to build up their income potential through education or building a business. Give people the time and resources to contribute greater value to society and they will, unfortunately most folks now have neither the time nor the resources and so they work shitty jobs for shitty pay, and convince themselves they are middle class because they can afford to but a car with a no money down 2% loan. That is closer to indentured servitude than middle class, but many have been convinced it is the latter not the former.  

Yup.

I've said before we don't have a middle class, we have a working class with credit cards.

We will be experiencing economic aftershocks from COVID for a long time.  A week or two or so I saw an article about how Credit Card debt was actually coming down.  The explanation was that with restaurants, etc. closed folks were actually spending less.    There are still a lot of folks on the lower end of the scale who are increasing CC debt and praying for an end to COVID to get their job back.

While that is true in regard to CC debt there also a lot of folks in forbearance on their mortgages while still paying credit cards and meeting living expenses.  That raises future problems.  Like how is your tax and insurance escrow going to get paid?  https://themortgagereports.com/68251/covid-mortgage-forbearance-issues-and-advice-for-borrowers

Now, for the first time, we’re beginning to see cracks in the system. Looming ahead are several major concerns.

  • How will the homeowner repay “skipped” payments?
  • With millions of forbearances in process, lenders could mistakenly consider payments late, triggering extra fees or even foreclosure proceedings
  • Credit agencies could dole out late payment status on mortgages actually in forbearance
  • Property tax and homeowners insurance may not get paid, since those are typically included in the mortgage payment.

Inventories are a problem for a lot of companies.

We have a long way to go in this process.

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7 hours ago, LenP said:

Give people the time and resources to contribute greater value to society and they will, unfortunately most folks now have neither the time nor the resources and so they work shitty jobs for shitty pay, and convince themselves they are middle class because they can afford to but a car with a no money down 2% loan. That is closer to indentured servitude than middle class, but many have been convinced it is the latter not the former.  

Been saying this for years. Your dysfunctional and counterproductive 'health insurance' system helps keep people down as well.

One of my better decisions in life was to return to Australia after working for a year in the USA 20 years back. I was well paid and quite happy there, but I couldn't make sense of how your system worked. As it turns out, that's because it doesn't, really.

FKT

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Just now, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Been saying this for years. Your dysfunctional and counterproductive 'health insurance' system helps keep people down as well.

One of my better decisions in life was to return to Australia after working for a year in the USA 20 years back. I was well paid and quite happy there, but I couldn't make sense of how your system worked. As it turns out, that's because it doesn't, really.

FKT

It's very simple actually, show up at the hospital of your choice, have a list of symptoms you need fixed and hand them your wallet.  If you aren't satisfied with their care, take a limousine to another hospital, get a second opinion and hand them your kids or parents credit cards.  

If you need intensive care, hand them the deed to your house.  

Nothin' hard about that.  

 

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1 minute ago, Left Shift said:

It's very simple actually, show up at the hospital of your choice, have a list of symptoms you need fixed and hand them your wallet.  If you aren't satisfied with their care, take a limousine to another hospital, get a second opinion and hand them your kids or parents credit cards.  

If you need intensive care, hand them the deed to your house.  

Nothin' hard about that.  

 

It only gets hard when you have to go back to ICU, no money no treatment.

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

 

* NPA = No Party Affiliation.  Because the REAL Best Americans don't care which party is in power, so long as they own them.  And they own both.  Just saying.  

So...you're saying that the Real Best Americans own the republicans so they don't have to be embarrassed about their yachts and can say snarky stuff at their country clubs and they own the Democrats so they have somebody competent to run the economy and keep the middle class and poor folks reasonably healthy and mollified?  Could be.

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2 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

It only gets hard when you have to go back to ICU, no money no treatment.

That's why they have bandaids, tylenol and cheap wooden crutches in the Urgent Care clinic.

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:
1 hour ago, loneshark64 said:

Well it will be back to tits. 

And hopefully prosecutions. 

Tits and prosecutions.

Hurray!  

Seconded.

Where can I buy stock in that, you got a ticker symbol?

- DSK

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45 minutes ago, Left Shift said:
2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

* NPA = No Party Affiliation.  Because the REAL Best Americans don't care which party is in power, so long as they own them.  And they own both.  Just saying.  

So...you're saying that the Real Best Americans own the republicans so they don't have to be embarrassed about their yachts and can say snarky stuff at their country clubs and they own the Democrats so they have somebody competent to run the economy and keep the middle class and poor folks reasonably healthy and mollified?  Could be.

They need Democrats to actually win wars.

- DSK

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

They need Democrats to actually win wars.

- DSK

They don’t need Democrats to win wars. They need Democrats to pay for the wars they don’t win.

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17 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

They need Democrats to actually win wars.

- DSK

If you win wars, the consumption of war materiel stops. How can you make a decent profit on cost-plus contracts if the bombs, bullets et al aren't getting used?

FKT

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24 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Seconded.

Where can I buy stock in that, you got a ticker symbol?

- DSK

No idea but how the fuck “tits and prosecutions” did not win the day I have no idea. We are really slipping here, folks.

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13 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

If you win wars, the consumption of war materiel stops. How can you make a decent profit on cost-plus contracts if the bombs, bullets et al aren't getting used?

FKT

Cheney applied the principle very well and it was very profitable for him.

Edit His focus was logistics and support, a follow on from Napoleons famous “ An army marches on its stomach”  theory.

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

I agree with all of that with the exception that neither UBI or MFA will happen or even be proposed by Biden in his first term.  Unlikely even in his 2nd if that comes to pass.  He is old skool.  He is too far in bed with big insurance and big pharma/medicine to even consider it.  And if he did consider it, his overlords would remind him that is not a good idea because the Best Americans (NPA*) don't want it.  He's going to fight tooth and nail to save obocare as a tribute to his boss and to cement his own legacy.  Because otherwise, to admit that the ACA doesn't work would be to admit he was part of that failure.  

* NPA = No Party Affiliation.  Because the REAL Best Americans don't care which party is in power, so long as they own them.  And they own both.  Just saying.  

I don't know about that. Some of the old traditional business, sure they would prefer to keep a ton of low wage earners around. However, there is an emerging belief among many leaders including partners I know at the big 4 and some large tech companies who believe that it is a necessity. They would like to have a stable society with folks who can use their products, and a highly educated workforce which they are already paying considerably above average. Wall st just wants to make money, and UBI and MFA help make that happen. If Wall st was worried about govt handing out free money, it would not rally every time it looks like there may be more stimulus and drop when there is not. From what I can see, most of the smart business leaders have learned three major lessons coming out of the pandemic. 

1. Static supply chains carry enormous risk - future result is an accelerated drive towards fully dynamic supply chains which under the covers operate a lot more like the digital ad ecosystem

2. Humans carry risks which need to be accounted for, machines do not get covid - future result, companies are going to accelerate automation plans as a way to mitigate the risk of business lost in future pandemics, which inevitably leads to slow or no job growth coming out of this. 

3. The WFH bogeyman had no teeth. For decades companies have resisted moving to a virtual work model despite obvious financial and staffing advantages out of a misplaced fear that if people worked from home they would sit on the couch and play Xbox all day. The proof that WFH works as well or better than a staffed office means that many companies will just stay virtual. That is going to have an impact on all sorts of things, almost all for the better though. 

When smart folks, even very greedy ones, look at these lessons many if not most will also find that UBI and MFA will need to be a part of our future. Industries which currently depend on cheap and relatively unskilled labor will fight it tooth and nail, but they are not the big power players anymore. The world ahs changed, and I think that many of those businesses (restaurants, hotels, resorts, etc) are already going to be going broke, the rest will find ways to automate much of what their low paid staff do now. 

I do not think it is assured that we get it, but I do believe the odds afavor it being passed and maybe before the midterms. It may be called something else, like a rolling stimulus tied to the unemployment rate, but I do believe in one form or another the govt will find itself giving away free money and free healthcare to everyone. 

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

It's very simple actually, show up at the hospital of your choice, have a list of symptoms you need fixed and hand them your wallet.  If you aren't satisfied with their care, take a limousine to another hospital, get a second opinion and hand them your kids or parents credit cards.  

If you need intensive care, hand them the deed to your house.  

Nothin' hard about that.  

 

We pay 25k per year for health insurance. My wife was hospitalized with IV antibiotics for 3 days due to an infection, no ICU no real treatment beyond a CT scan and the IV antibiotics. Total cost was 54k with 2.5 of that being what we pay. I can not imagine what life would look like if someone was really sick or injured, hand over the deed to your house indeed. 

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On 10/18/2020 at 5:54 AM, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Let's assume that Trump gets killed in the election and goes into a coma until Biden assumes office. After that day in January what the hell are we going to talk about on PA? 

Guess my question is, what is going to happen to PA if Trump should win? 

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56 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

They need Democrats to actually win start wars.

- DSK

Fixed

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2 hours ago, nacradriver said:

Fixed

Remind me - who started the Iraq wars and the Afghanistan war?

FKT

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40 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Remind me - who started the Iraq wars and the Afghanistan war?

FKT

Apparently it was some guys on planes...from Saudi Arabia...

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Apparently it was some guys on planes...from Saudi Arabia...

Yeah, that. Minor technicality.

Then Bush II - who was really a Democrat because only Democrats start wars - invaded both Iraq and Afghanistan because they had nothing to with 9/11 but he couldn't punish the home country of those who did.