nolatom

Is it a cult?? Stick-shifters (if there are any) unite....

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I can honestly say I have never owed a automatic transmission vehicle and proud of it.Long live the manual transmission

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I had to special order my mustang in order to get the color combination I wanted and the 6 speed. Teaching my daughters to drive it was a hoot.  They still need more practice!

 

Mustang 1.jpg

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Never thought I would be interested in watching someone shift a truck.

After all that, I think he made it up to 15 mph? And what the hell is the roll of toilet paper doing there?

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I tried to get my Transit Connect in a 5-speed manual, but that's only offered in Europe, along with the diesel option (of course!).  So now for the first time in my life, I'm driving an automatic.  Meh.  You get used to it.  

My first car, a van actually, was my dad's 1963 Ford Falcon Van (later called Econoline) with a 4-speed column shift.  

The 4-speed was a very rare option, even back then.  Most people had the 3-speed manual on the column.  

 

 

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"Three-on-the-tree"  - I used to date the daughter of a big orchard owner,  who wouldn't let her on my motorcycle,  so I'd ride out there (near Hershey, PA) and take her out with their '68 Ford Ranchero farm-truck,   with 3-on-the-tree.   Ah,  memories...

 

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4 hours ago, Mid said:

 

The old twin stick 6 speed.:D  The second stick actually split ratios if you wanted that but gave a low low first.  Had that on my 3000 gallon water truck with a 237 IIRC.

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3 hours ago, Winston29 said:

I tried to get my Transit Connect in a 5-speed manual, but that's only offered in Europe, along with the diesel option (of course!).  So now for the first time in my life, I'm driving an automatic.  Meh.  You get used to it.  

My first car, a van actually, was my dad's 1963 Ford Falcon Van (later called Econoline) with a 4-speed column shift.  

The 4-speed was a very rare option, even back then.  Most people had the 3-speed manual on the column.  

 

 

fullsizeoutput_1034.jpeg

Very cool because I thought my neighbors late 50s MB with 4 one the tree was a rarity.

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3 minutes ago, warbird said:

6 speed

tad more than 6 ...

cleary-brotherstradetrucks-simpson3.jpg

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4 hours ago, Gong Show said:

And what the hell is the roll of toilet paper doing there?

You never had a job outside an office complex and it shows...............:D

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1 minute ago, Mid said:

tad more than 6 ...

cleary-brotherstradetrucks-simpson3.jpg

:D Never drove that....

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1 hour ago, warbird said:

The old twin stick 6 speed.:D  The second stick actually split ratios 

Many years ago, I drove a concrete mixer with twin shifters.  It was called a "5 & 4".  5-speeds with a 4-speed splitter.  I hated it.  

What a PITA.  

And I thought the 23-speed where you had to flip a switch (Hi/Lo) in every-single-gear, twice, was bad!  Ugh!

Give me a nice Eaton Fuller 8, 9 or 10 speed any day.  So much easier.  

fullsizeoutput_1035.jpeg

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Rebuilding automatics has gotten ridiculously expensive, if rebuildable at all.

The clutch disk is a "fuse" of sorts.  Albeit an expensive one.

I see these old school trucks shifting without the clutch, rev matching and all that.

I've never had the nerve to try it.

I'm still ready to ditch the manual for an automatic though.  So vote me off this island. 

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Shifting without a clutch is tricky in any modern car.

With low rpm diesels equipped with high mass flywheels it is fun. The obsolete International Harvester BR 549* 6 cyl gas engine was okay to shift without a clutch but the big diesels are better.

 

*Ever seen Hee Haw?

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11 hours ago, Winston29 said:

Many years ago, I drove a concrete mixer with twin shifters.  It was called a "5 & 4".  5-speeds with a 4-speed splitter.  I hated it.  

What a PITA.  

And I thought the 23-speed where you had to flip a switch (Hi/Lo) in every-single-gear, twice, was bad!  Ugh!

Give me a nice Eaton Fuller 8, 9 or 10 speed any day.  So much easier.  

fullsizeoutput_1035.jpeg

I was at an auction to buy a Mack dump truck, it had the 6 speed. Air shifted LL then a 5 speed pattern with 4.56 rear gears. Good for about 64 mph flat out.  Seller explained the transmission and rear ratios made it perfect for crawling infront of an asphalt paver as dumped the hot mix for road paving.

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1 hour ago, Windward said:

Rebuilding automatics has gotten ridiculously expensive, if rebuildable at all.

The clutch disk is a "fuse" of sorts.  Albeit an expensive one.

I see these old school trucks shifting without the clutch, rev matching and all that.

I've never had the nerve to try it.

I'm still ready to ditch the manual for an automatic though.  So vote me off this island. 

 

1 minute ago, Autonomous said:

Shifting without a clutch is tricky in any modern car.

With low rpm diesels equipped with high mass flywheels it is fun. The obsolete International Harvester BR 549* 6 cyl gas engine was okay to shift without a clutch but the big diesels are better.

 

*Ever seen Hee Haw?

I go clutchless in my 2000 4cyl S10 often. when I am not in a hurry. The little truck has no tach but I imagine I ease off and pull out of gear at 1700 or 1800 rpm and then just slide it into the next gear gently.  Buttery smooth.

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Stick, hot cup of coffee and a cigarette in a ‘65 type 2. Should be required to pass a drivers test. 

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Who here likes power steering? Any cars now sold without?

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13 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

Who here likes power steering? Any cars now sold without?

Manual spark advance, choke, crank starter, heater, carburetor, electric horn and headlights?

I was a stick snob that drove a 5 X 4 back in the day. Until ~10 - 20 years ago auto trannys did suck. Now with my turbocharged pickup that pulls hard at low rpm I'd unesseralily over rev the motor with a stick.

I'd prefer the dimmer switch was back on the floor though.

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6 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

I'd prefer the dimmer switch was back on the floor though.

Fok ya , I run outta hands too often whilst the left foot is idle ....

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That ‘48 Indian Chief I mentioned?

On the handlebars, left-hand throttle, right-hand spark, and left foot on the suicide clutch.  At 18 years old, we were nevertheless “old  school” on that bike.

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5 hours ago, Autonomous said:

I'd prefer the dimmer switch was back on the floor though

Next to the starter 

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I think there are a helluva a lot more stick shift only people on this site than nolatom could have imagined, when he started this thread!!

I'm tempted to join the club to get the the cool sick figure decal!!

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6 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

I think there are a helluva a lot more stick shift only people on this site than nolatom could have imagined, when he started this thread!!

I'm tempted to join the club to get the the cool sick figure decal!!

Yes,  I’m gobsmacked

Not sure what it means but it sounds good  ;-)

 

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39 minutes ago, cyclone said:

Next to the starter 

Nope. Sorry, it’s been a while.

B3BCF956-37C2-48B3-B416-F652DEF991E2.thumb.jpeg.a645846e61e0aad283670e89600cd0fc.jpeg

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My dad taught all the kids via a manual, just like with pump shot guns...

I was a manual guy most of my life then I bought an Audi with Tiptronic (2000), pre flappy paddles. 

The clutch was dead to me at that point, (bay area traffic and a clutch gets old fast!) then I got a car with flappy paddles.

Fuck the clutch, long live flappy paddles!!!

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1 hour ago, cyclone said:

Nope. Sorry, it’s been a while.

B3BCF956-37C2-48B3-B416-F652DEF991E2.thumb.jpeg.a645846e61e0aad283670e89600cd0fc.jpeg

And the headlight high/low beam switch is to the left of the clutch pedal.

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While I love a well done 6 speed for a fun ride, DC traffic convinced me a beater with an automatic, air conditioning and a radio tuned to WTOP for traffic was a good idea.  These days, a dual clutch in sport mode comes really close to perfection. 

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14 hours ago, warbird said:

I was at an auction to buy a Mack dump truck, it had the 6 speed. Air shifted LL then a 5 speed pattern with 4.56 rear gears. Good for about 64 mph flat out.  Seller explained the transmission and rear ratios made it perfect for crawling infront of an asphalt paver as dumped the hot mix for road paving.

The Fuller had a reduction switch on the side that was perfect for crawling next to a curb & gutter machine.  

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14 hours ago, Autonomous said:

I'd prefer the dimmer switch was back on the floor though

I was thinking about that the other day, My Outback doesn't even come in a manual so they wouldn't have to change it if making an auto or a manual, because they don't!

Left foot is doing nothing the whole time, come to think of, the right foot does fuck all in that car too....

But I wonder if with auto dimming headlights if the point will become moot soon anyway.

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7 hours ago, cyclone said:

Nope. Sorry, it’s been a while.

B3BCF956-37C2-48B3-B416-F652DEF991E2.thumb.jpeg.a645846e61e0aad283670e89600cd0fc.jpeg

I drove a truck like that back in 1989 while I was in Moab, UT.  1954 Chevy 5-window.  

Transmission was crap.  You had to double-clutch every gear. 

1918622_101530839884201_4002538_n.jpg

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15 hours ago, cyclone said:

Nope. Sorry, it’s been a while.

B3BCF956-37C2-48B3-B416-F652DEF991E2.thumb.jpeg.a645846e61e0aad283670e89600cd0fc.jpeg

My first truck was a 54 Chevy pickup and that is how I started her.Great anti theft device.

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Stick is the norm in my household. My XTerra, my wife's Forester, my daughter's 1st Saturn. 

When she went to driver's ed class (after passing her license test in my Impreza), she was the 1st person the instructor put behind the wheel on the first night. When all were settled in the car the instructor told her to put the car into gear and pull out of the parking lot. Her response?  "How?" 

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1 hour ago, ROADKILL666 said:

My first truck was a 54 Chevy pickup and that is how I started her.Great anti theft device.

In high school mine was a ‘52 Chevy. I was lucky to find an FM radio with a 6v-12v switch.

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10 hours ago, floating dutchman said:

 

Left foot is doing nothing the whole time, come to think of, the right foot does fuck all in that car too....

 

After we got our first car with an auto trans I taught my left foot to operate the brake. It was a bit clumsy the first few times. Now my left foot hovers over the brake pedal in traffic without even thinking about it. This reduces brake reaction times.

When we test drove the car my wife scared the hell out of the salesman 'cause she didn't know how to operate an auto! It was her first one, LOL!

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On 10/23/2020 at 7:31 PM, warbird said:

You never had a job outside an office complex and it shows...............:D

I guess that old truck has no glove compartment.

TP, corkscrew, matches and insurance. I live in a rainforest, no way you would have TP hanging about like that. Ziplocks are not just for week, ya know.

I do laugh at your response, I was a skipper of a gillnetter for 16 years, not just day fishing near civilization. Doesn't get much more bush than that.

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I think I'm the only one with a manual in my extended family and I'm the only one who knows how to drive a manual in my immediate family.  I tried to teach my wife and son, but learning from scratch on a very short -geared six speed with 3 limited slip differentials was a bit too much. A very nice 6-speed, especially once you put in the group N bushings and engine mounts.  Better AWD system than many trucks. Mild mods on this one: equal length headers, high flow down pipe, fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump, 3-port BCS, mild-open source tune.  

After carrying my and all my crap cross-country Portland-to-Portland in 4 days in January (including my Summer tires & rims). 

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Yes, it a cult. I swapped the trunk with the wing for a wingless WRX trunk in a parking lot on I-90 'cause I'm too old for that shite and every 5 minutes we were getting interrupted by another Subaru Bro/Gal stopping by to "help". 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, ROADKILL666 said:

My first truck was a 54 Chevy pickup and that is how I started her.Great anti theft device.

 

3 hours ago, cyclone said:

In high school mine was a ‘52 Chevy. I was lucky to find an FM radio with a 6v-12v switch.

We converted mine to 12v and dropped in a small block 350 

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13 hours ago, Winston29 said:

The Fuller had a reduction switch on the side that was perfect for crawling next to a curb & gutter machine.  

When you need a Mack and have only $18k in your pocket you get what's available. Eaton Fuller 8LL are/were beautiful.

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2 hours ago, Gong Show said:

I guess that old truck has no glove compartment.

TP, corkscrew, matches and insurance. I live in a rainforest, no way you would have TP hanging about like that. Ziplocks are not just for week, ya know.

I do laugh at your response, I was a skipper of a gillnetter for 16 years, not just day fishing near civilization. Doesn't get much more bush than that.

Our main haul truck had a roll at the ready.

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Back in mid-sixties Massachusetts, if you took your license road test in an automatic, your license was restricted to automatics.  
So, me and my cohorts whose families lacked a stick- shift car to rake the test with, signed up for the only driving school in Marblehead, and drove their three-on-the tree Chevelle sedan for lessons and the road test. 
My first vehicle was a Sears Allstate (meaning Vespa) with three speeds from the handlebar clutch.  Then a Honda “Benly” 150, four-speed.  Then a Volkswagen Beetle, four on the floor.  Also Indian Chief my two buddies and I fixed up and shared.

By then the die was cast—stick-shifts ruled, automatics drooled.. ;-)

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28 minutes ago, nolatom said:

Back in mid-sixties Massachusetts, if you took your license road test in an automatic, your license was restricted to automatics.  
So, me and my cohorts whose families lacked a stick- shift car to rake the test with, signed up for the only driving school in Marblehead, and drove their three-on-the tree Chevelle sedan for lessons and the road test. 
My first vehicle was a Sears Allstate (meaning Vespa) with three speeds from the handlebar clutch.  Then a Honda “Benly” 150, four-speed.  Then a Volkswagen Beetle, four on the floor.  Also Indian Chief my two buddies and I fixed up and shared.

By then the die was cast—stick-shifts ruled, automatics drooled.. ;-)

I am 15.  We come home from church on Sunday morning.  My 13 year old cousin pulls up in front of our house on a black 150 Benley.  He is 10 miles from home on surface streets.  Polished shoes, black slacks, white button down dress shirt, helmet and (I shit you not) a cigar!  I asked if he was worried about getting caught under age and no liscence.  He replied, "they don't pull you over if you are smoking a cigar"  (at 13).  RIP Mark, most awesome cuz'

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I've had clutches fail, I've overloaded engines, and I've overloaded transmissions. But I've never overloaded a manual gearbox and I've never had a manual gearbox fail on me.

Manual gearboxes are simpler, and thus they are fundamentally more advanced technologies than automatics.

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I constantly reach for a ghost clutch when I drive my wife's car. 

I'm always worried using a shuttle service doing river trips. You have no idea who is going to hop in the truck. I make sure though to advise the company that they need to send an experienced driver.

On one trip the company forgot my truck. We were at a remote take out with a beat to shit pay phone. You picked it up and got an operator in Wyoming. You're supposed to give her a credit card, but my wallet was in the truck. She listened to my predicament and connected the call. I was very concerned, they realized the mistake and are now in a rush with a bunch of other shuttles pending, and it rained like hell making the road a mess. You can imagine my relief when the truck finally came over the hill with an old guy at the wheel. 

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

I've had clutches fail, I've overloaded engines, and I've overloaded transmissions. But I've never overloaded a manual gearbox and I've never had a manual gearbox fail on me.

Manual gearboxes are simpler, and thus they are fundamentally more advanced technologies than automatics.

I've had one manual gear box go.. I was left with 2nd and 4th, interesting when you're in a town at sea level and the way up to my parents was a long windy 1 in three with several junctions... I was at the start of a weeks holiday at my parents..

That cost me a lot of money, I was sat by the phone looking for a suitable garage in Yellow pages,  . When It rang.. It was The Warrant Officer I/C engineering, return to base in two days, you're detached off somewhere... I had to put it in the garage as say fix it NOW.

They did,, 1 and a half days later I drove through the night the 400 miles to my base to pick up my gear,  then turned round and drove 150 miles back to the base I was needed at..

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3 hours ago, mikewof said:

I've had clutches fail, I've overloaded engines, and I've overloaded transmissions. But I've never overloaded a manual gearbox and I've never had a manual gearbox fail on me.

Manual gearboxes are simpler, and thus they are fundamentally more advanced technologies than automatics.

Old automatics, Turbo Hydramatics, Torque Fliights etc used a lot of power for their internal hydraulic pumps and were thus less efficient. Modern 6,7,8 (and more) speed automatics seem to overcome this.  What changed?

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6 minutes ago, warbird said:

Old automatics, Turbo Hydramatics, Torque Fliights etc used a lot of power for their internal hydraulic pumps and were thus less efficient. Modern 6,7,8 (and more) speed automatics seem to overcome this.  What changed?

I doubt the hydraulic pump that operated the shifting took significant power. The torque converter certainly did. Now they use Lock-Up converters...like a clutch. Also more gears. And a computer that can beat any driver at choosing the right gear for power and efficiency. Drivers tire of the stick shift nostalgia and don't shift when they should. The thrill is gone. The computer never tires.

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6 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

I doubt the hydraulic pump that operated the shifting took significant power. The torque converter certainly did. Now they use Lock-Up converters...like a clutch. Also more gears. And a computer that can beat any driver at choosing the right gear for power and efficiency. Drivers tire of the stick shift nostalgia and don't shift when they should. The thrill is gone. The computer never tires.

The torque converter took all the power?  That explains the Mopar drag racers adding a clutch (Clutch Flight).  I had really thought that was for the hole shot but now makes sense, silly me.Thanks.

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4 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

I doubt the hydraulic pump that operated the shifting took significant power. The torque converter certainly did. Now they use Lock-Up converters...like a clutch. Also more gears. And a computer that can beat any driver at choosing the right gear for power and efficiency. Drivers tire of the stick shift nostalgia and don't shift when they should. The thrill is gone. The computer never tires.

After 9 German cars with stick shifts over a 40 year period, I have succumbed to the wiles of automatic gearboxes with flappy paddles.  I find myself using the paddles less and less and Just let the computers do their thing.  Just for giggles I specd out a new Porsche 911. The 8 speed PDK gearbox is the default transmission on the base 911. You have to go to at least the 911S to have the option of a 7 speed manual gearbox.

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46 minutes ago, warbird said:

The torque converter took all the power?  That explains the Mopar drag racers adding a clutch (Clutch Flight).  I had really thought that was for the hole shot but now makes sense, silly me.Thanks.

You kinda lost me. If you know how transmissions work...the basics...you would know that a clutch and manual shifter can be used with the automatic style gearbox. An automatic has a hydraulic pump in it to run the computer, cooling and actuators. Separate from the torque converter. 

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4 hours ago, El Boracho said:

You kinda lost me. If you know how transmissions work...the basics...you would know that a clutch and manual shifter can be used with the automatic style gearbox. An automatic has a hydraulic pump in it to run the computer, cooling and actuators. Separate from the torque converter. 

And yes a clutch and manual valve body actuation can be configured.  Drag racers did the clutched automatics in the 70s(?) I am only vaguely aware of autos, gears in gears in a ring with teeth inside, planetary gearset.  Lock one shaft or the other using hydraulic pressure.  Manuals are easy, main shaft and lay shaft (s?) with shift forks sliding real actual gears in and out of engagement. Old THM400s took about 50 horsepower pumping loss  at 4500 rpm (as explained to me by an old hotrodder) THM350 only about 25hp and powerglides 18hp.

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I just turned around in the driveway, a new car of one of Missus BB's GF's who is here for a hen party.  PRNDL knob on the dash to the right and just below the steering wheel.  It's a Chrysler SUV, don't recall the model, but it reminded me of the old push button auto trans control on the Dodge Dart, and probably some others.

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5 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

I just turned around in the driveway, a new car of one of Missus BB's GF's who is here for a hen party.  PRNDL knob on the dash to the right and just below the steering wheel.  It's a Chrysler SUV, don't recall the model, but it reminded me of the old push button auto trans control on the Dodge Dart, and probably some others.

A knob that turns? A rotary dial thingy?

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On 10/25/2020 at 8:19 AM, DancesWithTiger said:

Stick is the norm in my household. My XTerra, my wife's Forester, my daughter's 1st Saturn. 

When she went to driver's ed class (after passing her license test in my Impreza), she was the 1st person the instructor put behind the wheel on the first night. When all were settled in the car the instructor told her to put the car into gear and pull out of the parking lot. Her response?  "How?" 

Was DD at a high school party.  Had to drive buddy home in his auto.  Said same thing.  Picture a hammered dude in back seat trying to explain how to shift to a semi drunk 18 YO...  Hilarity ensued when I did a reverse drop out the driveway....  Every time my hand went to the shift nob (natural resting spot w stick) after that the screaming from back would start... ;)

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On 10/25/2020 at 11:13 AM, Autonomous said:

After we got our first car with an auto trans I taught my left foot to operate the brake. It was a bit clumsy the first few times. Now my left foot hovers over the brake pedal in traffic without even thinking about it. This reduces brake reaction times.

When we test drove the car my wife scared the hell out of the salesman 'cause she didn't know how to operate an auto! It was her first one, LOL!

That is actually dangerous as shit...  

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17 minutes ago, warbird said:

A knob that turns? A rotary dial thingy?

 

Yes, PRNDL rotary knob.  Also backup camera stayed on when in put in drive while jockeying back and forth, so she can drive straight out.  When funds are available we will install a circular driveway like our last house, so many guests can come and go conveniently...

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16 minutes ago, shaggy said:

That is actually dangerous as shit...  

 

I was trained to never, never, never use the left foot for the brake in an auto slush-box tranny.  Not sure why, because that's how F1, and I assume other race drivers do it??  When Hamilton complained about a cramp in the waning laps of the Portugal GP, one of the commentators said it might be in his left leg or glutes, from the intense brake pressure required on that physically exhausting circuit.  The G forces on that track are wicked, compared to many others..

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I have a pair of old IOR engineering/ design guys that are into Porsche track driving, one is a instructor for enthusiasts. Long story short I was at Sebring with them going a ride and checking out the scene. Modern Porsche automatic transmissions are as fast as all but professional racers 

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3 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

I have a pair of old IOR engineering/ design guys that are into Porsche track driving, one is a instructor for enthusiasts. Long story short I was at Sebring with them going a ride and checking out the scene. Modern Porsche automatic transmissions are as fast as all but professional racers 

 

IIRC they shift in thousands of seconds, and I believe it faster that pros.  When you compare the 0-60 or quarter mile times between auto and manual of the same performance cars, the autos are mostly quicker.  Which is why I think Porsche race cars and F1's have double clutch autos, right?

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46 minutes ago, warbird said:

A knob that turns? A rotary dial thingy?

My 2016 Ram 3.6 V6 has the 8 speed controled by a knobas described on the dash

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1 hour ago, shaggy said:

That is actually dangerous as shit..

Developed by rally driver Erik Carlsson, left foot braking is an effective means of steering a front wheel drive car.

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9 minutes ago, cyclone said:

Developed by rally driver Erik Carlsson, left foot braking is an effective means of steering a front wheel drive car.

Most FWD cars are hard as hell to get to rotate. Left foot braking is a way to encourage the rear to step out and get the car turning when they just want to understeer to oblivion. 

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1 hour ago, shaggy said:

That is actually dangerous as shit...  

If you think left foot braking is dangerous, and you rest your hand on the gearstick while driving, then perhaps you know a little less about the subject than you think you do.

I very rarely left foot brake in an auto, but it is very effective to tuck the front in a bit tighter in a corner in my rear drive manual. Used in the same way (although slightly different effect) as rear brake on a bike.

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37 minutes ago, Se7en said:

If you think left foot braking is dangerous, and you rest your hand on the gearstick while driving, then perhaps you know a little less about the subject than you think you do.

I very rarely left foot brake in an auto, but it is very effective to tuck the front in a bit tighter in a corner in my rear drive manual. Used in the same way (although slightly different effect) as rear brake on a bike.

Braking while under power is a pretty common tactic trying to get a vehicle to rotate in a turn.  Especially on awd.

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Real men drive 1965 Corvairs with push-button transmissions that look like the radio pre-sets.

or not.  I only got the 5-speed because I wanted the best mileage out of the diesel I bought - but I have to admit I enjoy how much it freaks some people out.  By my count I've own a dozen cars,  3 were automatics (all station wagons for windsurfing) - I'm just more used to them, is all.

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2 hours ago, shaggy said:

That is actually dangerous as shit...  

For you, probably.

Now stop projecting.

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14 minutes ago, Hatin' life said:

Braking while under power is a pretty common tactic trying to get a vehicle to rotate in a turn.  Especially on awd.

Yes. Although I'd describe it as helping to tighten your line, rather than getting the vehicle to rotate (although I did rotate a mates f ford several times trying it). I always struggled a little with the idea in fwd and awd vehicles - both driving and braking the same axle at the same time. But then again I never managed to drive my WRX all that well anyway.

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19 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Yes. Although I'd describe it as helping to tighten your line, rather than getting the vehicle to rotate (although I did rotate a mates f ford several times trying it). I always struggled a little with the idea in fwd and awd vehicles - both driving and braking the same axle at the same time. But then again I never managed to drive my WRX all that well anyway.

There's a cloverleaf I used to hit way too hard in the wrx I had.  You had to be in the power because the entry was so tight, but that car pushed like a dump truck on the power, and and slid around off the power.  Applying a little brake made the ass step out a freckle, and you could hammer through that corner.

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The first thing you do after you buy your WRX is take it and get a proper alignment to eliminate reduce the understeer.

FRONT -1.25* camber up front and a little toe-in, like 0.2 or 0.3*

REAR: zero toe-in

Then get rid of the OE tires.  Oh, and Subaru rims weigh like they are made out of concrete. Get some decent lightweight rims. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, bmiller said:

Here ya go.

Power is sent to the rear or all four wheels through a rebuilt three-speed manual transmission and a rebuilt twin-stick dual-range transfer case. A replacement Warn overdrive unit connects to the transfer case and is controlled through the one of four tunnel-mounted levers in the cabin.

 

 

What is a twin stick transfer case?
Twin stick shifters allow independent control of the high/low and 2wd/4wd sections of your Toyota gear driven transfer case. This allows access to low range 2wd operation. It also allows you to shift in and out of 4wd while driving on the trail without the need to stop.
 
so even though there's 4 sticks you are really only using one .

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4 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

IIRC they shift in thousands of seconds, and I believe it faster that pros.  When you compare the 0-60 or quarter mile times between auto and manual of the same performance cars, the autos are mostly quicker.  Which is why I think Porsche race cars and F1's have double clutch autos, right?

How many racers missed a shift then blamed the car, motor, transmission?  Doesn't happen any more:D

Dual clutch trans are amazing, evidently, I miight experience one in 8 or 10 year on the used car market:lol:

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5 hours ago, warbird said:

Old THM400s took about 50 horsepower pumping loss  at 4500 rpm (as explained to me by an old hotrodder) THM350 only about 25hp and powerglides 18hp.

That would be the loss in the torque converter. Not the little aux hydraulic pump. That is the loss that the newer type automatics greatly reduce. The old automatic slush-buckets were truly fuel wasters. Detroit loved them.

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9 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

That would be the loss in the torque converter. Not the little aux hydraulic pump. That is the loss that the newer type automatics greatly reduce. The old automatic slush-buckets were truly fuel wasters. Detroit loved them.

:D

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Not to brag much or anything (Ahem), but I've only driven sticks for the past sixty years, 

and never wore out a clutch or broke a gear box. 

Several of them I drove for almost ten years - Opel Manta, VW's, Honda Prelude, now a Mazda CX-5 

Just don't ride the flippin' clutch y'all. 

image.jpeg.2bc9e9979b34e4368876cc672a4d28d0.jpeg

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6 hours ago, billy backstay said:

I just turned around in the driveway, a new car of one of Missus BB's GF's who is here for a hen party.  PRNDL knob on the dash to the right and just below the steering wheel.  It's a Chrysler SUV, don't recall the model, but it reminded me of the old push button auto trans control on the Dodge Dart, and probably some others.

My wife’s Lincoln SUV has a push button gear selector high on the dash to the right of the steering wheel.  It also has flappy paddle shifters.  Why, I have no idea.

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7 hours ago, billy backstay said:
7 hours ago, shaggy said:

That is actually dangerous as shit...  

 

I was trained to never, never, never use the left foot for the brake in an auto slush-box tranny.  Not sure why,

I was taught it was a bad thing to do because you tended to ride both pedals at once, wasting fuel and causing unnecessary wear on brake pads.  Also if you are riding the brake the car behind you doesn't know when you are actually braking, one of my pet peeves.

It was ingrained in me to never left foot brake so I have just never done it, now the guys in posts above say it help with turning in, maybe I should have a bit of a play, although I'm guessing my car will kill the gas as soon as you brake so it might not have the desired effect.

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Some advice from the 50s & 60s on driving is dated. Don't be stupid, don't ride the brake.

Like anything else you can train your brain and body a better way to do things.

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16 hours ago, warbird said:

Old automatics, Turbo Hydramatics, Torque Fliights etc used a lot of power for their internal hydraulic pumps and were thus less efficient. Modern 6,7,8 (and more) speed automatics seem to overcome this.  What changed?

The complexity of the devices has changed for one ... one of the infamous Jeep transmissions has a belt in there, for some hell-forsaken reason. Boothie used to make whiskey-drinking money just building override switches for the wonky-ass Borg-Warner electric transfer.

Engineers -- if left unattended -- will find a way to fuck up a wet-dream. They just add complexity where it isn't needed. My old Isuzu General Motors has a 5-speed manual, and a manual transfer, and she will find a way to slog through a muddy morning in Bayonne.

It's not the efficiency, it's just that they've found ways to make engines run a solid 200k without a rebuild, what's the point of switching out the old 300k manual transmissions for 150k automatics? Great, the little race car has an automatic and the Proctologist with the mid-life crisis is able to take half-a-second off his quarter mile. Fine. But with trucks? Fucking why? It's like putting an automatic blower on the bilge. If we're too absent minded to vent our fumes, maybe we deserve the spark.

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7 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Not to brag much or anything (Ahem), but I've only driven sticks for the past sixty years, 

and never wore out a clutch or broke a gear box. 

Several of them I drove for almost ten years - Opel Manta, VW's, Honda Prelude, now a Mazda CX-5 

Just don't ride the flippin' clutch y'all. 

image.jpeg.2bc9e9979b34e4368876cc672a4d28d0.jpeg

When I finally sold my suby it had over 300K miles. Original clutch that was still solid.

My Dodge 2500 developed a shake at 170K, felt like it needed an injector job. Which it did but that didn't remedy the shake. Mechanic said it must be in the clutch or flywheel. Thats a big heavy job so I had him do it. Turns out the factory clutch had some wonky bearing issue causing it to wobble. But the surface was in great shape, even after hauling big heavy shit all around the country.

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7 hours ago, floating dutchman said:

I was taught it was a bad thing to do because you tended to ride both pedals at once, wasting fuel and causing unnecessary wear on brake pads.  Also if you are riding the brake the car behind you doesn't know when you are actually braking, one of my pet peeves.

It was ingrained in me to never left foot brake so I have just never done it, now the guys in posts above say it help with turning in, maybe I should have a bit of a play, although I'm guessing my car will kill the gas as soon as you brake so it might not have the desired effect.

Keep in mind that at the limit and turning in you are managing slip angles. With FWD, the rear tends to follow along like a puppy and take a a lot of effort to get it sliding while the heavily loaded with both lateral and longitudinal acceleration front end starts slipping and provides safe, boring and slow understeer. Tapping the brakes or using the handbrake (rally cars have those massive handbrake levers for this reason) can force the rear end to rotate and get the car pointing into the corner quicker. FWD autocross cars can use reverse stagger, massive pressure differences F/R, harder shocks and stiffer roll bars in the rear to encourage the back to come out when you want it. 
 

basically, not a routine street procedure but one to use to get 10/10ths out of the car under competition circumstances. Just left foot braking with an automatic can help improve reaction times on the road but takes practice and you have to “unlearn it” to drive a manual. 

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5 hours ago, mikewof said:

Engineers -- if left unattended -- will find a way to fuck up a wet-dream. They just add complexity where it isn't needed. My old Isuzu General Motors has a 5-speed manual, and a manual transfer, and she will find a way to slog through a muddy morning in Bayonne.

Engineers may come up with overtly elaborate solutions, but to really screw things up it takes the beancounters. 

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