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Is it a cult?? Stick-shifters (if there are any) unite....

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31 minutes ago, Windward said:

Rev limiter... check

 

That looks like a ton of fun.

It does look like fun.  It looks like it would be fun even at the speeds i would drive one!

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Talking about stick shift, 4WD and left foot braking, this short clip might be an inspiration to up your game:

WRC Legend: Walter Röhrl 

In another doku for his 70th birthday he also claimed that he never liked to slide around, because it was basically slower than driving a good line with grip. Those Group B rallye cars with up to 600 HP at just under a metric ton forced the drivers to adapt a little. :) 

 

 

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Röhrl is a legend for his oneliners alone.

"You can't treat a car like a human being; a car needs love."

"While accelerating the tears of joy have to run horizontaly to the ears."

"If you can see the tree you crash into; that's understeer. If you can hear it; that's oversteer."

Even Schwarzenegger isn't as 80s as Röhrl.

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22 minutes ago, Grog said:

Talking about stick shift, 4WD and left foot braking, this short clip might be an inspiration to up your game:

WRC Legend: Walter Röhrl 

In another doku for his 70th birthday he also claimed that he never liked to slide around, because it was basically slower than driving a good line with grip. Those Group B rallye cars with up to 600 HP at just under a metric ton forced the drivers to adapt a little. :) 

 

 

I am NOT going to stand in a crowd at the edge of the road, on a curve, with these guys coming at me.

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2 hours ago, chester said:

I am NOT going to stand in a crowd at the edge of the road, on a curve, with these guys coming at me.

Totally agree. Higher ground it is!

To bring it down a little, that was obiously a pretty extreme example, looking at one the masters of the art.

Personally, I'd opt for no more that 1,000 kgs, a 4 cyl petrol engine delivering 100 to 125 HP, 5 gear stick shift and disc brakes all around. Which would make the Mazda Miata/MX5 the best and most fun drop top car ever made.

And it is. Still miss my ancient Alfa though :) 

 

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2 hours ago, mathystuff said:

Röhrl is a legend for his oneliners alone.

...

"You can tell a fast driver by the smashed bugs on the side windows."

 

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That guy is/was a pistol for sure.  I especially like

"If you can see the tree you crash into; that's understeer. If you can hear it; that's oversteer." :D

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4 hours ago, Grog said:

Talking about stick shift, 4WD and left foot braking, this short clip might be an inspiration to up your game:

WRC Legend: Walter Röhrl 

In another doku for his 70th birthday he also claimed that he never liked to slide around, because it was basically slower than driving a good line with grip. Those Group B rallye cars with up to 600 HP at just under a metric ton forced the drivers to adapt a little. :) 

 

 

There's a good reminder of the Audi / Lancia battle here, with a little Jeremy Clarkson humor:

 

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More rally commentary from Clarkson

And rallying, I’m afraid, is a sport for the terminally gormless. You stand there, on a frozen Welsh hillside, not knowing whether to drink the soup you’ve made or pour it into your wellingtons. And the evening is enlivened only when a pair of extremely noisy headlights whizz by, hurling a million bits of gravel into your face. The only good news about this is that your face is so chuffing cold you can’t feel the blood tricking out of all the open wounds.

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The 6-speed manual transmission on a 996 is really refined.  It is the first car in a very long time that I love to really drive. The bare essence of what a performance car should drive like at prices that are just starting to inch up.  The early 2000s 911 is a modern cult leader. It is the kind of car you keep for life.

 

 

DSC_3999.jpg

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2 hours ago, Grog said:

Personally, I'd opt for no more that 1,000 kgs, a 4 cyl petrol engine delivering 100 to 125 HP, 5 gear stick shift

My first car. Mazda RX-7.  Curb weight around 1000 kg. 2 rotors, 115 HP, 5 speed.

13" wheels and 205mm wide tires so not a lot of grip. But great fun to learn how to drive quickly with not much power.

Also excellent on rough logging roads if you went very slowly at times.

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3 hours ago, Grog said:

Totally agree. Higher ground it is!

To bring it down a little, that was obiously a pretty extreme example, looking at one the masters of the art.

Personally, I'd opt for no more that 1,000 kgs, a 4 cyl petrol engine delivering 100 to 125 HP, 5 gear stick shift and disc brakes all around. Which would make the Mazda Miata/MX5 the best and most fun drop top car ever made.

And it is. Still miss my ancient Alfa though :) 

 

I’d go for 200 hp and a 6 speed but I like your thinking. 

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Here is the THING about driving a stick in an Automatic World -  the fucking drones use the damn brakes just SO MUCH!!!   Seriously,   just cruise a country road sometime and watch - so many are just pedal-riders,  it's like they  don't understand the throttle works BOTH ways.

That,  and there is No Such Thing as slowing down rather than speeding right up to a line of stopped traffic - it's like half of them can't see 10 feet past the hood ornament.

There is an art to driving a manual well,  and it is no longer the 'standard' of the land,  but I can't help it - I learned to drive tractors and trailbikes long before I started in cars and it's always just seemed normal to me.

Once when I worked for a weekly newspaper I got drafted into driving the big truck to the Post Office because the driver was 'sick'  (drunken to an extreme) "You drive a stick-shift,  right?"      It was like a 28' heavy duty box truck.  I had an MG Midget at the time

Hell Yeah,  I did it.  I was 17 - what could go wrong?

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22 minutes ago, Great Red Shark said:

Here is the THING about driving a stick in an Automatic World -  the fucking drones use the damn brakes just SO MUCH!!!   Seriously,   just cruise a country road sometime and watch - so many are just pedal-riders,  it's like they  don't understand the throttle works BOTH ways.

That,  and there is No Such Thing as slowing down rather than speeding right up to a line of stopped traffic - it's like half of them can't see 10 feet past the hood ornament.

There is an art to driving a manual well,  and it is no longer the 'standard' of the land,  but I can't help it - I learned to drive tractors and trailbikes long before I started in cars and it's always just seemed normal to me.

Once when I worked for a weekly newspaper I got drafted into driving the big truck to the Post Office because the driver was 'sick'  (drunken to an extreme) "You drive a stick-shift,  right?"      It was like a 28' heavy duty box truck.  I had an MG Midget at the time

Hell Yeah,  I did it.  I was 17 - what could go wrong?

:lol:

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I’m refusing to give up my little Fiesta ST until the wheels fall off. That little car still makes me smile when I drive it, even after 93,000 miles. 

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17 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

Here is the THING about driving a stick in an Automatic World -  the fucking drones use the damn brakes just SO MUCH!!!   Seriously,   just cruise a country road sometime and watch - so many are just pedal-riders,  it's like they  don't understand the throttle works BOTH ways.

That,  and there is No Such Thing as slowing down rather than speeding right up to a line of stopped traffic - it's like half of them can't see 10 feet past the hood ornament.

There is an art to driving a manual well,  and it is no longer the 'standard' of the land,  but I can't help it - I learned to drive tractors and trailbikes long before I started in cars and it's always just seemed normal to me.

Once when I worked for a weekly newspaper I got drafted into driving the big truck to the Post Office because the driver was 'sick'  (drunken to an extreme) "You drive a stick-shift,  right?"      It was like a 28' heavy duty box truck.  I had an MG Midget at the time

Hell Yeah,  I did it.  I was 17 - what could go wrong?

Cleaned pools for a couple years in Chicago,  Newbie at that job, but the partner they put me with got a DUI, so I was DD.  17, 20' box truck with a manual.  "U drive stick right??  Good times.  Had the fiat and a Scirocco and a dasher all manual at the time so easy peasy.  Owner had a manual f250 or 350 something as well.  Good God that thing sucked in Chicago Traffic.  

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On 10/24/2020 at 10:33 AM, Autonomous said:

BR 549*

Great band, too.  Saw them live several times.  Helluva slide guitar player.

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On 10/29/2020 at 3:46 PM, shaggy said:

Cleaned pools for a couple years in Chicago,  Newbie at that job, but the partner they put me with got a DUI, so I was DD.  17, 20' box truck with a manual.  "U drive stick right??  Good times.  Had the fiat and a Scirocco and a dasher all manual at the time so easy peasy.  Owner had a manual f250 or 350 something as well.  Good God that thing sucked in Chicago Traffic.  

 

That is about the only time would gladly settle for an auto-slush box.  I am fortunate that I rarely ever have to drive in traffic like, and only for short spells, if I do...  We'll be in Charleston end of next week, and probably driving Britt's manual Jetta.  That is the only place in the last few years I have had any city like traffic, and it's not nearly as bad as downtown, in large Metropolitan City.

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On 10/28/2020 at 9:19 PM, Great Red Shark said:

Here is the THING about driving a stick in an Automatic World -  the fucking drones use the damn brakes just SO MUCH!!!   Seriously,   just cruise a country road sometime and watch - so many are just pedal-riders,  it's like they  don't understand the throttle works BOTH ways

This.  Though I will add, most autos go into free wheel as soon as you let off.

  I hardly use the brakes at all in traffic.  Even less with an exhaust brake.  Leave a little gap, moderate the gap with throttle position.  Same for stop and go, you can usually just idle through it not touching anything.

If you're working harder with a standard in traffic, you're trying too hard.

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On 10/22/2020 at 12:25 PM, Windward said:

No kidding...  this process hurts.

Nhaa, you just need the right machine.  Lots of torque and a bulletproof drive train.

I learned on a Jeep j-10 I(Vietnam era pickup that became the original Gladiator).  Had a german 4 cylinder diesel with gobs of torque.  Was driving it after only 2 stalls.

 

when I taught my daughter to drive, we went from an automatic to a stick within a week.  Believe you should give your kids life skills that may come in handy in the future like driving sticks and knowing how to pack up a trailer..

Used my Wrangler unlimited with a 3.8 six, 6 speed, and granny gears.  Again, so much torque that you basically could drop the clutch and it would shutter, but keep on going until she got the hang of it.  One way to keep the anxiety down is to start in an area with lots of room and no traffic.  I find a large school parking lot on a Sunday morning a wonderful area as there are no other cars about, and there are usually side roads about the campus to practice. Once they get the hang of it, then you can try a hill start and then into traffic.

 

Of all my manual transmissions (have had a lot of them), my favorite was my VW GTI.  Nothing like a fall drive at 10 pm on winding back roads clicking through the close ratio gearbox.  But not a good car to teach with as the light flywheel and the need to constantly grab the next gear.

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4 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:

One way to keep the anxiety down is to start in an area with lots of room and no traffic.  I find a large school parking lot on a Sunday morning a wonderful area as there are no other cars about, and there are usually side roads about the campus to practice.

Kid drove the honda, but never really got the hang of it because it was the wifie's car and she was not too aggressive with the gearbox(he had driven it with her for the first bit).  Then I took him to the twisties in the mtns.  Everything clicked on the way down.  :D

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15 hours ago, Hatin' life said:

This.  Though I will add, most autos go into free wheel as soon as you let off.

  I hardly use the brakes at all in traffic.  Even less with an exhaust brake.  Leave a little gap, moderate the gap with throttle position.  Same for stop and go, you can usually just idle through it not touching anything.

If you're working harder with a standard in traffic, you're trying too hard.

Yep.

What boggles my mind is following someone up a mountain road and seeing the brake lights come on. 

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25 minutes ago, bmiller said:

Yep.

What boggles my mind is following someone up a mountain road and seeing the brake lights come on. 

OMG.  Down is worse, You can tell the tourists cause they are riding the breaks for all 50 Mi down from Vail.  IN the Jeep, (Auto) but you get the idea, I can make it without traffic sans breaks.  You would think summer would be better, but no.  Throw in the RV's and the idiots going 90 in snow and well, Idiots.  

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3 hours ago, Foreverslow said:

 

Used my Wrangler unlimited with a 3.8 six, 6 speed, and granny gears.  Again, so much torque that you basically could drop the clutch and it would shutter, but keep on going until she got the hang of it.  One way to keep the anxiety down is to start in an area with lots of room and no traffic.  I find a large school parking lot on a Sunday morning a wonderful area as there are no other cars about, and there are usually side roads about the campus to practice. Once they get the hang of it, then you can try a hill start and then into traffic.

Ok, I have the Jeep 3.6 and the 6 speed manual.

Reverse gear (in 2WD) with no acceleration feels like it would go about 40mph.  No crawling with that without 4WD low.  And thats no good on dry pavement.

I could re-gear up to 4.10, but I really don't think it will make all that much difference. 

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17 minutes ago, Windward said:

Ok, I have the Jeep 3.6 and the 6 speed manual.

Reverse gear (in 2WD) with no acceleration feels like it would go about 40mph.  No crawling with that without 4WD low.  And thats no good on dry pavement.

I could re-gear up to 4.10, but I really don't think it will make all that much difference. 

you can drop the clutch just off idle.  then again, I had the trailering package with 3.88 gears (rubicons were only ones with 4:11s from factory) instead of the 3.27 which were std.

In a small car that will stall it and you need to feed lots of revs which is not good for the clutch.  The jeep will act like it is shitting razor blades, but it will keep moving.

A couple more times and the student will get it.

 

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2 hours ago, Windward said:

Reverse gear (in 2WD) with no acceleration feels like it would go about 40mph.

I hated this with my last Dodge truck.  Backing the boats into the uphill, narrow and long driveway was a PITA with having to rev the engine and slip the clutch to get it to crawl up the hill.

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13 minutes ago, bplipschitz said:

I hated this with my last Dodge truck.  Backing the boats into the uphill, narrow and long driveway was a PITA with having to rev the engine and slip the clutch to get it to crawl up the hill.

Dodge used, and Fiat still uses, a goofy front axle setup.  The hubs are always engaged, but the differential isn't.  You can lock out the front axle from 4wd with a relatively cheap work around, and have 2-Lo.  I think it's about $100, and I've been meaning to get one for my current pickup since a 4 door regular box is a twat to wiggle through a 40 point turn with an enclosed trailer up a narrow driveway from a narrow Street.

Reverse rarely has the correct gearing it seems.

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2 hours ago, Hatin' life said:

Dodge used, and Fiat still uses, a goofy front axle setup.  The hubs are always engaged, but the differential isn't.  You can lock out the front axle from 4wd with a relatively cheap work around, and have 2-Lo.  I think it's about $100, and I've been meaning to get one for my current pickup since a 4 door regular box is a twat to wiggle through a 40 point turn with an enclosed trailer up a narrow driveway from a narrow Street.

Reverse rarely has the correct gearing it seems.

I've been looking into this with some interest. Cannot seem to find a solution to work with my particular transfer case.

So I'm back to looking for an automatic truck. 

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20 minutes ago, Windward said:

I've been looking into this with some interest. Cannot seem to find a solution to work with my particular transfer case.

So I'm back to looking for an automatic truck. 

What's the pickup?  Auto or manual, the axles and transfer case work the same.

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Nothing to do with transmission, just a little oddity ...

I go to replace the throttle position sensor in my Mitsubishi truck with the Dodge engine, I pull everything off ... no TPS, huh? Turns out it's integrated into the throttle body now, repair not possible. The entire throttle body needs to be replaced.  So I opened up the throttle body, and it didn't look at all like any throttle I'd ever worked on ... plastic gears, a little electric motor to set the throttle, the inside is littered with exposed conducting contacts and electronics; like a cell phone's circuit board inside.

Repair not possible even if I could get the parts, because the structure is plastic and press fit. I ordered an entirely new throttle body,

On one hand it's easy to pine for the good old days where I adjusted the throttle through a cable linkage, but in another way, it kind of makes the repair easier ... I no longer need to have any level of expertise to balance the throttle ... I just take off the old part, bolt on the new part. Better? Probably not. Easier? Probably.

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On 11/6/2020 at 8:21 AM, mikewof said:

On one hand it's easy to pine for the good old days where I adjusted the throttle through a cable linkage, but in another way, it kind of makes the repair easier ... I no longer need to have any level of expertise to balance the throttle ... I just take off the old part, bolt on the new part. Better? Probably not. Easier? Probably.

They seem to be a necessary evil in the modern car.  They are needed for things like throttle body adjustment when the variable cams do their thing and the direct injection engines go into lean mode so the driver doesn't notice a abrupt change in power, they also slow throttle response for fuel saving and hold the throttle open for just a bit when you lift your foot for emissions, and I'm sure a host of other things I'm unaware of.

I think it would be very difficult for a car maker today to make a car that hits fuel consumption and emissions targets and drives as nice without one.

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On 11/6/2020 at 7:12 PM, floating dutchman said:

They seem to be a necessary evil in the modern car.  They are needed for things like throttle body adjustment when the variable cams do their thing and the direct injection engines go into lean mode so the driver doesn't notice a abrupt change in power, they also slow throttle response for fuel saving and hold the throttle open for just a bit when you lift your foot for emissions, and I'm sure a host of other things I'm unaware of.

I think it would be very difficult for a car maker today to make a car that hits fuel consumption and emissions targets and drives as nice without one.

Do you have any thoughts on this?

Engine code shows bad TPS. I replaced the entire throttle body. Same error codes. I figured maybe the idle air control valve is gunked up, but I looked at it, seems clean, and the truck idles smoothly. Any other suspicious parts in these fly-by-wire throttles that could throw a TPS code?

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43 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Engine code shows bad TPS.

You clearly didn't use the new header for the TPS reports.

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No idea,  Haven't really played with enough.  I just picked up some of the theory here and there.

By TPS they don't mean the foot pedal do they?

I'll assume you have disconnected and reconnected the battery since the part change.

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38 minutes ago, bplipschitz said:

You clearly didn't use the new header for the TPS reports.

I’m going to have to ask you to come in on Saturday.  

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25 minutes ago, floating dutchman said:

No idea,  Haven't really played with enough.  I just picked up some of the theory here and there.

By TPS they don't mean the foot pedal do they?

I'll assume you have disconnected and reconnected the battery since the part change.

Snaggy's suggestion of the mass air flow might work, it runs really smooth though. I disconnected battery, touched terminals to discharge the computer's capacitor, code and idiot light disappear, and then reappear a day later.

There is no rheostat on the foot pedal, it's just a cable up to the throttle system.

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1 hour ago, Windward said:

I’m going to have to ask you to come in on Saturday.  

Yeahhh.. and why don't you go ahead, and come in on Sunday too...

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On 11/6/2020 at 8:21 AM, mikewof said:

easy to pine for the good old days where I adjusted the throttle through a cable linkage, but in another way, it kind of makes the repair easier

 

6 hours ago, mikewof said:

Any other suspicious parts in these fly-by-wire throttles that could throw a TPS code?

 

4 hours ago, mikewof said:

There is no rheostat on the foot pedal, it's just a cable up to the throttle system.

Well paint me confused?

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12 minutes ago, floating dutchman said:

Well paint me confused?

Me too.

I press the throttle, which pulls some kind of rheostat in the TPS which then sends a signal to the computer, which then tells the stepper motor right next to the TPS to open the throttle. I have no idea why the engine computer can't just pull data from the TPS for the variable timing, EGR and all the other stuff, and still allow for the manual connection between cable and throttle, but it doesn't.

The irony here is that the old Honda CVCC engine from the 1970s is more efficient than these computer controlled engines in 2020, and it didn't need a catalytic converter or EGR or the air injector like these 2020 engines. Have we actually made progress, other than employing lots and lots of engineers?

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35 minutes ago, mikewof said:

The irony here is that the old Honda CVCC engine from the 1970s is more efficient than these computer controlled engines in 2020, and it didn't need a catalytic converter or EGR or the air injector like these 2020 engines. Have we actually made progress, other than employing lots and lots of engineers?

Cars emit far, far fewer emissions than they did in the 1970's.

"Compared to 1970 vehicle models, new cars, SUVs and pickup trucks are roughly 99 percent cleaner for common pollutants (hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides and particle emissions). New heavy-duty trucks and buses are roughly 99 percent cleaner than 1970 models."

https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate-change/accomplishments-and-success-air-pollution-transportation

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21 minutes ago, floating dutchman said:

Oh.  I does look like a good way to keep engineers employed but I'm sure there is good reason for it.

Yeah, if they're going to use the computer to control the timing, the spark advance, the air-fuel mixture, the exhaust gas recirculation, the idle, the charging, and the stoichiometry, then they might as well have a motor drive the throttle. I get it. It's like, once you're in knuckles-deep, you might as well give the cervix a tickle.

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9 minutes ago, slap said:

Cars emit far, far fewer emissions than they did in the 1970's.

"Compared to 1970 vehicle models, new cars, SUVs and pickup trucks are roughly 99 percent cleaner for common pollutants (hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides and particle emissions). New heavy-duty trucks and buses are roughly 99 percent cleaner than 1970 models."

https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate-change/accomplishments-and-success-air-pollution-transportation

The manufacturers do the least they can to stay compliant with the EPA regulations, they've always done that.

It's not that the technology is cleaner because of the computer controls, but rather that the technology is cleaner because of the compliance demands. And in some ways, the technology is more dirty ... submicron pollution has become worse, NOx pollution has become worse with the advent of lean burn from rich burn (which decreased CO but increased NOx).

It's a shell game. The 99% cleaner stat you pulled up there is partly due to what we measure. We don't measure particulates below 2.5 microns, so our submicron pollution has shot skyward with the loss of the course mode nucleation centers.

And these improved vehicles don't always show improved air quality ...

PM-25-1040w.png

Some of the technology is even ass-backward, like the air blower. The whole purpose of that dumb-ass thing is to inject air into the exhaust, ideally after the secondary reactions. That actually decreases the efficiency of the engine, in an effort to just dilute the pollution pr volume. But the total pollution with the air injector increases. It's silly. And the CVCC engine didn't need the catalytic converter, but now cars need them. Just one problem ... the pollution from the mining and production of the materials needed to make the catalytic converter are not accounted in the EPA model. Same thing with the Tesla, it appears to be very clean because the water pollution and air pollution from the materials mining and refining is not included in the vehicles emission signature.

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57 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Me too.

 

The irony here is that the old Honda CVCC engine from the 1970s is more efficient than these computer controlled engines in 2020, and it didn't need a catalytic converter or EGR or the air injector

 

It did need two separate (essentially) carburetors:D

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10 minutes ago, warbird said:

It did need two separate (essentially) carburetors:D

It was a beautiful design. https://www.designnews.com/stub/we-make-it-simple-how-honda-outsmarted-catalytic-converters

Honda%20CVCC%20cycles_0.jpg

I'm not sure that we could come up with something so elegant and simple in 2020, we just don't think like that anymore. It kind of led the way to the American lean burn programs of the 1990s that we still use today.

Amazingly, back in the 1970s, that little car pulled 40 mpg. The 2020 Honda Fit can barely hit those numbers even now, let alone any conventional vehicle by Ford or GM or Fiat.

 

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9 minutes ago, mikewof said:

It was a beautiful design. https://www.designnews.com/stub/we-make-it-simple-how-honda-outsmarted-catalytic-converters

Honda%20CVCC%20cycles_0.jpg

I'm not sure that we could come up with something so elegant and simple in 2020, we just don't think like that anymore. It kind of led the way to the American lean burn programs of the 1990s that we still use today.

Amazingly, back in the 1970s, that little car pulled 40 mpg. The 2020 Honda Fit can barely hit those numbers even now, let alone any conventional vehicle by Ford or GM or Fiat.

 

I had a Prelude ,impressive, but I do not remember 40 mpg though it was frugal.  Gave it to my sister with 55-60k miles 83 or 84 time frame, when I went onto an Aircraft Carrier.  She had young daughters, I had visions of coming home from a Med cruise with a Bimota in a crate.

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58 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Amazingly, back in the 1970s, that little car pulled 40 mpg. The 2020 Honda Fit can barely hit those numbers even now, let alone any conventional vehicle by Ford or GM or Fiat.

The 2020 Honda fit weighs 1000 lbs more than the 1970's Civic.   And todays car engines don't run as lean to keep NOx emissions down.

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I have owned an RX-3, 2 different Celicas and a 240SX, all standards of course.  My favorite car?  My Toyota Echo Hatchback SE with the TRD suspension.  The road to Tofino was an absolute blast, it had almost no body roll, and not really enough power so you had to carry all the speed you could into the corner if you wanted to come out fast.  It never failed me and was very forgiving when I overcooked it.  Also the road from Kaslo to New Denver was an outstanding drive.  I don't drive like that anymore, I would die, or worse hurt someone else.

Second favourite was the 240SX, followed by the RX-3.  Shit suspension on the RX-3, but in a straight line it was as fast as the V8's.

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On 10/29/2020 at 8:59 AM, Grog said:

Personally, I'd opt for no more that 1,000 kgs, a 4 cyl petrol engine delivering 100 to 125 HP, 5 gear stick shift and disc brakes all around. Which would make the Mazda Miata/MX5 the best and most fun drop top car ever made.

But it gets more funner as you add power and remove weight. What you want is 500 kilos, 160 hp 4 cylinder. That's the recipe for the most fun car ever made.

(Although I did love my fiat spyder once I'd sorted the hp issue.)

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Pretty fond of my WRX.  2 Litre flat 4 with 268 HP, bone stock. If I had money to burn, I'd do stage I or II mods, and get over 300!!  Wife hates it due the stiff, unforgiving suspension, compared to her 16 YO BMW X3 with 215k miles now.

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

Pretty fond of my WRX.  2 Litre flat 4 with 268 HP, bone stock. If I had money to burn, I'd do stage I or II mods, and get over 300!!  Wife hates it due the stiff, unforgiving suspension, compared to her 16 YO BMW X3 with 215k miles now.

Before tuning a Subie, read up on "ring land failure"  

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10 hours ago, slap said:

The 2020 Honda fit weighs 1000 lbs more than the 1970's Civic.   And todays car engines don't run as lean to keep NOx emissions down.

Wait ... the lean burn creates more NOx than the rich burn or stoichiometric burn. Current engine management tends to lean burn rather than rich.

And why does the Fit weigh so much more than the CVCC? We now have better materials and better lightweight safety than in the 1970s. What has added the weight? (I used to own a Fit, it was a terrific little car, but plastic everywhere. Safety is the key, cars have become much safer for the occupants, at the cost of becoming more dangerous for the people outside the vehicle, and the air. 

We currently don't measure particulate pollutants much smaller than about 1 micron. Have these accumulation mode particulates increased since the 1970s? What about O3?

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3 hours ago, billy backstay said:

Pretty fond of my WRX.  2 Litre flat 4 with 268 HP, bone stock. If I had money to burn, I'd do stage I or II mods, and get over 300!!  Wife hates it due the stiff, unforgiving suspension, compared to her 16 YO BMW X3 with 215k miles now.

Ringland failure can be a problem if there are any issues with your tune or you skimp in reliability mods. The pistons are chocolate bars. The FA20 in the WRX is more difficult to tune correctly than the EJ25 and stock internals don't take boost as well due to the change in the rod design. 

That said, I have 30k miles on an EJ25 that gets flogged pretty hard, but not tracked. I get 320whp/320torques on pump gas. 

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How do you find the shifter? I drove a friend's WRX and didn't like the gear shift compared to Mazdas and Hondas I've owned.

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3 hours ago, Zonker said:

How do you find the shifter? I drove a friend's WRX and didn't like the gear shift compared to Mazdas and Hondas I've owned.

The five speeds are shit.  The STI six speed is a pretty nice tranny, and much more robust.  The 5spd is made of butter and hope.

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21 hours ago, Elegua said:

Ringland failure can be a problem if there are any issues with your tune or you skimp in reliability mods. The pistons are chocolate bars. The FA20 in the WRX is more difficult to tune correctly than the EJ25 and stock internals don't take boost as well due to the change in the rod design. 

That said, I have 30k miles on an EJ25 that gets flogged pretty hard, but not tracked. I get 320whp/320torques on pump gas. 

 

But, you use 93 or 91 octane, correct?

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16 hours ago, Zonker said:

How do you find the shifter? I drove a friend's WRX and didn't like the gear shift compared to Mazdas and Hondas I've owned.

 

Mine came from factory with short shift kit, and if not paying attention, it's easy to accidently go back to 3rd, when shifting to 5th.

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2 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

But, you use 93 or 91 octane, correct?

Yes. 93. But you do that with the stock tune as well. I still run the stock turbo and injectors,  so that in cold weather I run out of fueling and in warm weather I run out of turbo. 

16 hours ago, Hatin' life said:

The five speeds are shit.  The STI six speed is a pretty nice tranny, and much more robust.  The 5spd is made of butter and hope

Exactly. And the 6 speed is worse. The 5 and 6 speed in the WRX are the same cable operated unit; the 6 with 5 gears cut down to fit 6. The STi is an ancient and robust rod actuated unit.  I highly recommend the group N transmission and engine mounts as well as the shifter bushes.

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19 hours ago, Zonker said:

How do you find the shifter? I drove a friend's WRX and didn't like the gear shift compared to Mazdas and Hondas I've owned.

Mazda and Honda are the AR platform, STi the AK platform, to use a gun analogy.
 

The Mazda and Honda are more refined than either of the Subaru boxes but less robust and direct than the STi 6 speed. 
 

Well, at least I think so. 

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Apologies for the rant, but the what the fuck is it with express service and over-torquing? Do the employees get instruction from the management along the lines of "if you're in a hurry, just go good-n-tight and add a half-turn"?

I can't get the oil drain plug off of my truck after the express oil change, and the tire shop torqued the lug bolts to the point that I can't loosen all but one of them without bending my iron. They torqued another vehicle to the point that the bolts stretched and the back of one of nuts misthreaded. Every time I think I'll save some time by letting someone else do simple maintenance, I end up paying for it in time.

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4 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Apologies for the rant, but the what the fuck is it with express service and over-torquing?

No apologiese needed, you oure familey.  Lacke of experience permeattes manney trades nowadayes. 

:)

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On 11/14/2020 at 5:29 AM, billy backstay said:

 

Mine came from factory with short shift kit, and if not paying attention, it's easy to accidently go back to 3rd, when shifting to 5th.

My 2016 VW R with the 6-speed has a particularly narrow gate, especially into reverse (up to the left) and a very slack spring too. 

A novice driver (including me on several early occasions) can easily knock it into reverse at the lights if you use any palm action at all.  Luckily you get a warning (of sorts) as the rear-view camera comes on.

Shitty clutch, though.  It slipped badly when applying the loud pedal in 1st or 2nd.  Get that fixed ASAP.

 

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On 11/13/2020 at 7:19 AM, Se7en said:

But it gets more funner as you add power and remove weight. What you want is 500 kilos, 160 hp 4 cylinder. That's the recipe for the most fun car ever made.

(Although I did love my fiat spyder once I'd sorted the hp issue.)

I agree, as long as we are talking about track day toys.

And even there, these little blow troches can burn you quite badly. The meanest power to weight ratios I had were with motorcyles. The strongest was a pretty tricked out but still street legal Yamaha FZR 1000 Exup, dynoed 155 hp and 115 Nm while being stripped to 205 kg wet (from 143hp/97 Nm and 256 kg stock). It did kind of bend the laws of physics, but it also always waited for the first occasion to throw you off or bite you in the face. If you are not very concentrated and experienced, these things are outright dangerous and overwhelming.

This is why I actually preferred my SRX 600, also slightly tuned and a bit lighter than stock (56 hp, 64 NM, 155 kg), but with sticky rubber it was just joyful to throw around tight, twisty roads and rev the nuts off of it without the danger of being launched into orbit. Much like an MX 5 vs an Ariel Atom. Matter of fact, I chose the SRX over the FZR for my trip to the 1992 TT on the Isle of Man. And I survived it.

I am aware that I am not a highly skilled racing driver, nor do I need to clock my favourite back roads that important tenth of a second faster to win some shiny pot. To me, it is all about the sensation, the feel of driving a well tuned machine (instrument?) for sheer fun and enjoyment. Preferably without hurting someone else or myself.

A buddy of mine is working at the Porsche development center in Weissach. He sometimes brings one of their test cars to take me for a spin. While being really heavy for a sports car, some of these cars also have an insane performance and are outright scary. Not for me, thanks!

That said, the MX-5 is almost a little too perfect, too "nice". The most inspiring car I have ever driven was a 1968 Afla Romeo GTA, not unlike this one:

So let me extend my recipie: 4 pots, 2 liters (or less), 5 speed stick shift, disc brakes, 12V battery and chrome plated wiper arms. :) 

 

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11 hours ago, Grog said:

I agree, as long as we are talking about track day toys.

So let me extend my recipie: 4 pots, 2 liters (or less), 5 speed stick shift, disc brakes, 12V battery and chrome plated wiper arms. :) 

I do agree with you on the alfa 105. Great cars, unfortunately their price reflects that. Like a fiat 124 for someone with style and taste.

I'm a much better driver than rider, so while I've had various bikes, I've never really pushed any of them that hard. Favourite was probably a SV1000S - 1000cc V-Twin. Enough torque that you could leave it in third all day and ride it like an automatic. Also had a softail for a while, which I just couldn't develop any great liking for.

While it is just a toy now, I did have my clubman (lotus 7 style thing) as a daily driver for a couple of years, and it still spends the majority of it's life on road. Ticks most of your boxes - 4 cylinder, 1600cc, 180ish hp, 5 speed CR gearbox (I also have a 4 speed dog box, but that's too much for the road), 4 wheel disks but live rear end. Doesn't have chrome plated wiper arms... some things need to be sacrificed to stay under 520 kilos. 

Most fun car I've driven was another clubman that had the 1300 hyabusa engine and sequential box. Flat changes are addictive, and at under 460 kilos weight, it went quite well.

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On 11/13/2020 at 1:19 AM, Se7en said:

But it gets more funner as you add power and remove weight. What you want is 500 kilos, 160 hp 4 cylinder. That's the recipe for the most fun car ever made.

(Although I did love my fiat spyder once I'd sorted the hp issue.)

 

This is where a properly built, classic Resto-Mod, Mini Cooper really shines!!  I think my '72 Mk III S was 110 to 120 BHP, and around 600 Kilos, and with properly set up suspension and brakes it will out-corner nearly all comers!  At the Vintage races they pass the big block Detroit Iron in the corners, only to be passed back on the straightaways....

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19 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

This is where a properly built, classic Resto-Mod, Mini Cooper really shines!!  I think my '72 Mk III S was 110 to 120 BHP, and around 600 Kilos, and with properly set up suspension and brakes it will out-corner nearly all comers!  At the Vintage races they pass the big block Detroit Iron in the corners, only to be passed back on the straightaways....

Just don't get hit by an F-250.  

I was sitting in my S2000  in a parking lot on Saturday, waiting for the Admiral to pick something up in a store.  A new Suburban pulled into the spot next to me.  Holy shit, did i feel vulnerable and that is with impact zones, airbags, etc.  

A classic mini is like a helicopter.  Propulsion and control systems wrapped in a lightweight sheet metal trash can.  

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Speaking of Mini's, have you seen what these two psycho fucks are building?

 

 

I'm sorry, and you're welcome.

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24 minutes ago, Hatin' life said:

Speaking of Mini's, have you seen what these two psycho fucks are building?

 

 

I'm sorry, and you're welcome.

 

Yes, I have seen some of them, good stuff!!

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They're almost done with that thing.  I think four years later.

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50 minutes ago, Hatin' life said:

They're almost done with that thing.  I think four years later.

 

They are incredibly meticulous, and amazingly skilled.  I want to see the finished Mini Monster!

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I drove my nephew's 350 hp 2003 (2002?)GTI, All heim joint suspension , alcohol injection, lowered, stiffened, wide radials volkswagon.  Holy f#$k.  Needs to be pointed were you intend before boost come on.

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

 

They are incredibly meticulous, and amazingly skilled.  I want to see the finished Mini Monster!

It's a bracket disguised as a mini....

Screenshot_20201123-195439_Instagram.thumb.jpg.90f8cb57d0162533d0d8a9db4455a270.jpg

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21 hours ago, Hatin' life said:

Speaking of Mini's, have you seen what these two psycho fucks are building?

 

 

I'm sorry, and you're welcome.

GODDAMMIT!  I went down that rabbit hole and invested about 10 fucking hours watching that...they' aren't done!  I think they started in 2014.  I assume binky is a side /personal project for them.  31 of 32 episodes are about rebuilding...I guess building is the more accurate word, the body, episode 32 is the rebuild of the engine.  the phrase i said to my self most often was "these guys are fucking crazy", even though they are about the most laid back people imaginable.  I need to see this car finished!

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40 minutes ago, chester said:

GODDAMMIT!  I went down that rabbit hole and invested about 10 fucking hours watching that...they' aren't done!  I think they started in 2014.  I assume binky is a side /personal project for them.  31 of 32 episodes are about rebuilding...I guess building is the more accurate word, the body, episode 32 is the rebuild of the engine.  the phrase i said to my self most often was "these guys are fucking crazy", even though they are about the most laid back people imaginable.  I need to see this car finished!

With the amount of chassis work, they are doing, should have just bought new body panels and built the custom chassis from scratch.  Of course, then it wouldn't "really be" a Mini.  

Amazing work and a lot more thought out than the casual approach displayed in the videos.  I like their style.  

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2 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

With the amount of chassis work, they are doing, should have just bought new body panels and built the custom chassis from scratch.  Of course, then it wouldn't "really be" a Mini.  

Amazing work and a lot more thought out than the casual approach displayed in the videos.  I like their style.  

well they did buy new panels!  the only original panels left are the roof , the "boot" and the "bonnet".  they bought new floors and then immedieately starting cutting them up, altering them and then altering the alterations!  but yeah,     i think they KNEW they could do it from the start but the shtickt from the start was they were going to TRY to do it.  I like there references to the comments section of the vids, slyly sending up all the armchair builders.  the number of brackets, tabs and clips they build is kinda staggering.  all those little peices they built and welded in so they could zip tie the wiring looms....

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10 minutes ago, chester said:

well they did buy new panels!  the only original panels left are the roof , the "boot" and the "bonnet".  they bought new floors and then immedieately starting cutting them up, altering them and then altering the alterations!  but yeah,     i think they KNEW they could do it from the start but the shtickt from the start was they were going to TRY to do it.  I like there references to the comments section of the vids, slyly sending up all the armchair builders.  the number of brackets, tabs and clips they build is kinda staggering.  all those little peices they built and welded in so they could zip tie the wiring looms....

Haven't made it that far.  Having done a couple of "down to the bare metal chassis" BMC cars (and 1 German), I cringed at the amount of rust on the donor Mini.  Floor was expected and the replacement served as at least a solid foundation to cut up.  

I'm pretty impressed with the suspension mock ups they built to control the geometry and let that drive new metal mounts for the struts and suspension arms.  Pretty solid engineering and fabrication skills there.  

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4 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Haven't made it that far.  Having done a couple of "down to the bare metal chassis" BMC cars (and 1 German), I cringed at the amount of rust on the donor Mini.  Floor was expected and the replacement served as at least a solid foundation to cut up.  

I'm pretty impressed with the suspension mock ups they built to control the geometry and let that drive new metal mounts for the struts and suspension arms.  Pretty solid engineering and fabrication skills there.  

I know nothing about any of this but their fabrication ability is incredible.  that big home built jig impressed the heck out of me.  they put a whole car up there and then can slide big parts like engines and transmisions into and out of place.  and when they were done with it, it came apart and rolled out of the way.  The sheer number of times they assembled parts of the car, measured, disassembled, fabbed stuf and then reassembled them was shocking to me.  The most surprising  sub system to me was the radiators. they built and fitted three radators and stuffed them in that tiny little engine bay..  I kinda thought a radiator was a radiator:D, didn't realize how remanufacturable they were. 

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I dont' think I've watched anything take this long on YouTube. Very clever packaging to get that all to fit. A little bit of faff with the hood opening, but all in good fun. 

 It' will be interesting to see what they lose on that very tight turbo packaging. Not the most efficient manifold and I think they will suffer a little from heat soak on the coolers. But, that's picking nits. I can't see how you could have done it better at still fit in the box.  

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1 hour ago, Elegua said:

I dont' think I've watched anything take this long on YouTube. Very clever packaging to get that all to fit. A little bit of faff with the hood opening, but all in good fun. 

 It' will be interesting to see what they lose on that very tight turbo packaging. Not the most efficient manifold and I think they will suffer a little from heat soak on the coolers. But, that's picking nits. I can't see how you could have done it better at still fit in the box.  

the funny part is that they set out to build a modern mini...you know, like BMW did in 2001 :P.  i see that the new mini is in fact a foot longer, 5 inches wider and 3 inches taller than the classic so...using a modern mini as the donor car for the running gear probably would have saved them some time but where's the fun in that? at the very beginning they said right out that they weren't going to lengthen it 'cause then it wouldn't be a mini.

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