Jules

No Eye Splice Rope?

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This is the second rope (newly purchased) that you can't put an eye splice in.  This one is Sampson XLS3 and there's no way to put a fid in between the inner and outer jacket, let alone try to pull a tail through it.  The outer jacket won't stretch enough to allow it.

Is this something new or am I just buying the wrong rope for making eye splices?

 

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Are you using just fids or have you also tried splicing needles?  I've found splicing needles work better for tightly woven line in some cases.

https://www.amazon.com/Ronstan-F25-Splicing-Needle-Puller/dp/B00N4X16D0/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3IA2F9SVAPLO7&dchild=1&keywords=ronstan+splicing+needle&qid=1603245534&sprefix=ronstan+sp%2Caps%2C215&sr=8-1

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Selma fids work well here as well. I use the flat tip to work the cover away them slide around the core and work it out. Works on XLS, Excel racing. The hardest to.exteact is robline dinghy control but I have done it

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What diameter line are you trying to splice?  Sometimes the smaller sizes are a little more difficult to work with.

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10 hours ago, psycho tiller said:

Are you using just fids or have you also tried splicing needles?  I've found splicing needles work better for tightly woven line in some cases.

I've been using fids but I made one attempt at taping the core to a pusher and trying to get that through to finish the spice.  It wouldn't go in even an inch.

7 hours ago, @last said:

What diameter line are you trying to splice?  Sometimes the smaller sizes are a little more difficult to work with.

This attempt is on 1/4" line.  The last time I ran across this was on 3/8" line.  I managed to finish that one but had to fight like hell to complete it.  There was only one eye to make then.  This time there's six. 

Sampson shows the core being whipped at the end.  So maybe they didn't design the rope for the conventional eye splice.

SampsonEyeSplice.jpg.1bcad77e1093ef0aa93da13184641500.jpg

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Never mind.  That was for Class II double braid.  For their Class I they show the conventional method.

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^^^^ yeah, that pic is for a "core-dependent" (class II) eye-splice, for (e.g.) MLX3.  Different from the typical double-braid (e.g., XLS3) eye-splice.

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Jules said:

This is the second rope (newly purchased) that you can't put an eye splice in.  This one is Sampson XLS3 and there's no way to put a fid in between the inner and outer jacket, let alone try to pull a tail through it.  The outer jacket won't stretch enough to allow it.

Is this something new or am I just buying the wrong rope for making eye splices?

 

first of all it's not rope,  it's line..

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2 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

first of all it's not rope,  it's line..

And what's second of all?  ;)

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3 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

first of all it's not rope,  it's line..

It's rope until it's in use - when it becomes line. ;)

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33 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

It's rope until it's in use - when it becomes line. ;)

Unless it's the bolt rope, which gets to stay a rope forever.

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Some rope is difficult 

pulling in , burying  the splice can be a challenge 

Follow the instructions ...perform the splice on the saloon table... then take the splice outside into the cockpit , string between two winches , then pull the splice in 

remember the small rope hitch trick for pulling in the final bury 

this  Italian video may help 

first drink a double expresso 

burying the splice Is  at the end of the video 

watch carefully ... two winches are needed 

 

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2 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Some rope is difficult 

pulling in , burying  the splice can be a challenge 

Follow the instructions ...perform the splice on the saloon table... then take the splice outside into the cockpit , string between two winches , then pull the splice in 

remember the small rope hitch trick for pulling in the final bury 

this  Italian video may help 

first drink a double expresso 

burying the splice Is  at the end of the video 

watch carefully ... two winches are needed 

 

You need a double-double espresso...

Or you can click on the "settings" icon, the small gear on the bottom right corner and slow down the playback speed to 0.5   :D

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

It's rope until it's in use - when it becomes line. ;)

Ah my favorite bet for turkeys.  There are numerous ropes on a sailboat.  The aforementioned bolt rope, bell rope (on clapper), foot rope (square-riggers), tow rope (until >3” then houser),  shall drone on?

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Samson?? I thought they stepped out of the sailboat line business last year. 

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I've got goat ropes on my boat.

 

First attempt at a splice. As far as I could get on 6mm dingy control line. The braid is very very tight at where my thumb is. Second attempt I may do more core tapering - excessive to instructions.

PXL_20201022_051435493.jpg

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6 hours ago, mgs said:

Just do a cleaner job with the taper

A bit tricky to do, and that's not what they are doing.

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On 10/21/2020 at 4:03 AM, psycho tiller said:

Are you using just fids or have you also tried splicing needles?  I've found splicing needles work better for tightly woven line in some cases.

https://www.amazon.com/Ronstan-F25-Splicing-Needle-Puller/dp/B00N4X16D0/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3IA2F9SVAPLO7&dchild=1&keywords=ronstan+splicing+needle&qid=1603245534&sprefix=ronstan+sp%2Caps%2C215&sr=8-1

I don't have a picture here, but I made myself one of these with the flat metal rod from inside an old windshield wiper bent at the middle. To make the handle I just put the ends of the rod through a synthetic cork (from a cheap bottle of wine) and bent the tips at 90º to keep it in place. It works 100% perfect!

For very, very thin lines I did the same but instead of the flat rod I used  an old guitar string. I was able to splice  1mm SK78 dyneema once.

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3 hours ago, Fleetwood said:

A bit tricky to do, and that's not what they are doing.

The cover could be tapered before it is buried. Either way, I’m inclined to believe that they wouldn’t put the instructions out there if it were not up to the task, the lump probably doesn’t affect (effect?) the strength of the splice

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Affect (a verb, effect is usually a noun, but not always. This is English after all.....)

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O-ffect it is then

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22 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

first of all it's not rope,  it's line..

definitely make sure to let https://www.marlowropes.com/ know they need to change the name of their company :)

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17 hours ago, Fleetwood said:

This technique (No. 6 from Premium Ropes):

https://www.premiumropes.com/splicing-rope/splicing-instruction-videos

is a lot simpler than the conventional approach. A concern is the lump from burying the cover. Any views/experience?

yeah I've used this one but I modified the "10cm" section to pull the tail through more of the line, do a normal taper, and pull to bury. It works great and keeps that small bulk-up from happening.

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14 hours ago, Snore said:

Ah my favorite bet for turkeys.  There are numerous ropes on a sailboat.  The aforementioned bolt rope, bell rope (on clapper), foot rope (square-riggers), tow rope (until >3” then houser),  shall drone on?

What gets housed in a > 3" tow rope?

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12 hours ago, Hunky said:

I've got goat ropes on my boat.

 

First attempt at a splice. As far as I could get on 6mm dingy control line. The braid is very very tight at where my thumb is. Second attempt I may do more core tapering - excessive to instructions.

PXL_20201022_051435493.jpg

I'll bet you can get more. wear thick leather gloves. tie off the tail to something solid (I used a tree). put a line around the loop and do something with a winch (I didn't have a winch so I put it on the hitch of my touareg. apply tension and milk the cover. Also, beat the binding area with a hammer to loosen up the threads. seems counterintuitive, but you *can* get that to bury.

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On 10/21/2020 at 10:34 AM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

first of all it's not rope,  it's line..

It's rope until it is put to a use.  Rope on the reel and when you purchase it.  Line when you give it a purpose.  

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

What gets housed in a > 3" tow rope?

Doogie.

18 hours ago, Snore said:

Ah my favorite bet for turkeys.  There are numerous ropes on a sailboat.  The aforementioned bolt rope, bell rope (on clapper), foot rope (square-riggers), tow rope (until >3” then houser),  shall drone on?

Hawser.  

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5 hours ago, ryley said:

I'll bet you can get more. wear thick leather gloves. tie off the tail to something solid (I used a tree). put a line around the loop and do something with a winch (I didn't have a winch so I put it on the hitch of my touareg. apply tension and milk the cover. Also, beat the binding area with a hammer to loosen up the threads. seems counterintuitive, but you *can* get that to bury.

Dinghy control is the toughest rope I have spliced. Mostly switched to Excel from marlow now. Has most of the smaller sizes that used to only be in Dinghy control and much easier to splice. Will see if it lasts as long Dinghy control is tough stuff. Hard on gloves and hands though. 

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2 hours ago, Locus said:

Dinghy control is the toughest rope I have spliced. Mostly switched to Excel from marlow now. Has most of the smaller sizes that used to only be in Dinghy control and much easier to splice. Will see if it lasts as long Dinghy control is tough stuff. Hard on gloves and hands though. 

Toughest line I ever spliced was way back when where I had to do a tight eye splice onto a J-lock in 1 1/8" diameter double braid, year-old Dacron jib sheets for an IOR mini-maxi.  Hammer, tie off tree, tree stump for pounding on, leather gloves, dish soap on the bury, the whole bit.  Made marks on the line to show progress in 1/8" intervals.  Took hours to do over several days x 2.  All that work to get thrashed by the stupid J-Locks every tack.  

For small diameter double braid I gave up on the commercial fids and pushers and made coat hanger wire "pullers" with a tight hook at one end, slipped it inside the tail and taped extra tight.  Worked a charm.

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Jules,

Sorry but I don't have any suggestions.  I just did two eye splices in some new 1/4" XLS3 following Samson Double Braid Class 1 eye splice instructions.  I found the cover fairly easy to open and pull the core.  And it wasn't too much of a PITA to finish bury the eye.  For 1/4" line I was surprised.  I used Selma fids to open cover and pull core.  I used standard Samson 1/4" fid for the rest.  

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55 minutes ago, yoyo said:

Jules,

Sorry but I don't have any suggestions.  I just did two eye splices in some new 1/4" XLS3 following Samson Double Braid Class 1 eye splice instructions.  I found the cover fairly easy to open and pull the core.  And it wasn't too much of a PITA to finish bury the eye.  For 1/4" line I was surprised.  I used Selma fids to open cover and pull core.  I used standard Samson 1/4" fid for the rest.  

Looking at Sampson's website, I noticed some lines had "polyester" listed for the cover and some had "spun polyester" listed for the cover.  I have a couple of lines with the spun polyester cover and splicing the eye was easy.  But with that XLS3, I cannot push a standard fid in between the cover and core more than an inch or two.

I gave up and whipped on the eyes.

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20 minutes ago, Jules said:

Looking at Sampson's website, I noticed some lines had "polyester" listed for the cover and some had "spun polyester" listed for the cover.  I have a couple of lines with the spun polyester cover and splicing the eye was easy.  But with that XLS3, I cannot push a standard fid in between the cover and core more than an inch or two.

I gave up and whipped on the eyes.

Maybe we got different batches of XLS3 from Samson.  I was surprised that it wasn't a S fight doing the eyes in the 1/4" XLS3.

Just for reference here is the samson splice instruction I used.  dblbrd_c1_eye_splice_web.pdf

FYI - I have had good luck with puller fids made with stainless seizing wire and have made soft fids to pull rather than push when things are excessively tight.  I didn't need them for the XLS3.

 

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12 hours ago, Left Shift said:

... eye splice ..in year-old

Heh.  When I had my rigging shop, the price  was different for splicing used line than for new line.

Splicing line that had already taken a set was way way way way more work, and if I could avoid that (e.g., encourage them to go ahead and buy new line while we were fixing things), so much the better.  If they did pay the higher price, the difference kept the beer fridge full which helped ease the pain.

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22 minutes ago, sledracr said:

Heh.  When I had my rigging shop, the price  was different for splicing used line than for new line.

Splicing line that had already taken a set was way way way way more work, and if I could avoid that (e.g., encourage them to go ahead and buy new line while we were fixing things), so much the better.  If they did pay the higher price, the difference kept the beer fridge full which helped ease the pain.

Old polyester double braid rope is a nightmare ... even when the rope is  end for ended 

dont even go there 

 

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18 hours ago, Left Shift said:

It's rope until it is put to a use.  Rope on the reel and when you purchase it.  Line when you give it a purpose.  

Guy 1:  That boat has some really clean lines
Guy 2: Yeah, the owner just washed them
;)

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2 hours ago, sledracr said:

Heh.  When I had my rigging shop, the price  was different for splicing used line than for new line.

Splicing line that had already taken a set was way way way way more work, and if I could avoid that (e.g., encourage them to go ahead and buy new line while we were fixing things), so much the better.  If they did pay the higher price, the difference kept the beer fridge full which helped ease the pain.

Yeah, this.  Cheap owner and free crew = The hard way.

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3 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Yeah, this.  Cheap owner and free crew = The hard way.

i had a friend asked me to splice a halyard for him,  after he put it on the mast...

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Just bought some (cheap) 6mm (1/4") double braid and tried to put an eye splice in it, using the Premium Rope technique.

No way I could pull the tail through the outer jacket with a fid. Tried a (homemade) splicing needle puller - no problem !

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On 10/22/2020 at 12:45 AM, chuso007 said:

I don't have a picture here, but I made myself one of these with the flat metal rod from inside an old windshield wiper bent at the middle. To make the handle I just put the ends of the rod through a synthetic cork (from a cheap bottle of wine) and bent the tips at 90º to keep it in place. It works 100% perfect!

For very, very thin lines I did the same but instead of the flat rod I used  an old guitar string. I was able to splice  1mm SK78 dyneema once.

Seizing wire folded over works well too. For a handle I just wrap the ends around a short of 1"dowel 

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On 10/22/2020 at 9:03 PM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

rope is cheap,  line is expensive as hell..

Last "rope" I bought was $4.50 LF.  The one eye splice I did at home didn't add that much to the cost when I turned it into a mainsheet "line".

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On 10/31/2020 at 10:48 PM, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Seizing wire folded over works well too. For a handle I just wrap the ends around a short of 1"dowel 

Anyone have a video showing the tricks?

I want to make an endless loop of 2mm dyneema (e.g., take 36" of material and do a 100% bury to end up with a loop 18" in circumference).  Haven't decided whether to do it with a cross-over, or just snake-swallowing-its-own-tail, but... would love to have it be as painless as possible.

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These are nice.  It's not a 100% bury (in fact his looks to be a bit short) it's also doubled over.  Not sure if that's what you want.  He's using bigger line so doesn't need the seizing wire fid but you can.  There's other videos too.  

 

 

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10 hours ago, sledracr said:

Anyone have a video showing the tricks?

I want to make an endless loop of 2mm dyneema (e.g., take 36" of material and do a 100% bury to end up with a loop 18" in circumference).  Haven't decided whether to do it with a cross-over, or just snake-swallowing-its-own-tail, but... would love to have it be as painless as possible.

If you just want a simple dyneema loop its real easy. And with an 18" finished length should give you plenty of room for a proper bury 

 

 

 

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Thx!  I was really asking... any videos of using siezing wire to do the pull?  I'm assuming (?) it's the same process as with a d-splicer, but open to tips.

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On 10/22/2020 at 12:45 AM, chuso007 said:

I was able to splice  1mm SK78 dyneema once.

Wtf dude, you got telescopes for eyeballs, or what?

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44 minutes ago, Baldur said:

Wtf dude, you got telescopes for eyeballs, or what?

And it was used too...

It was too short so I spliced it to another piece of line

 

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3 hours ago, sledracr said:

Thx!  I was really asking... any videos of using siezing wire to do the pull?  I'm assuming (?) it's the same process as with a d-splicer, but open to tips.

Oh,

Yup - just fold the stainless seizing wire so you have two long parallel strands with a smooth open tip/end like the D splicer.  I don't even have a handle on mine.

  

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2 hours ago, yoyo said:

Oh,

Yup - just fold the stainless seizing wire so you have two long parallel strands with a smooth open tip/end like the D splicer.  I don't even have a handle on mine.

  

I like to use stainless  welding rods 

Thin ones for small diameter rope 

thick ones for heavy rope 

these rods are generally one meter long and  are also handy for many mast and wire threading  projects . They are very stiff

stop by a welding shop and pick up a few 

for very small diameter splicing , life line nets , flag halyards , messengers...  , pick up a set of fisherman’s rigging needles ... both loop style and eye style needles 

 

89ED7AA7-1434-425C-9CDB-0A8CB12D17C7.jpeg

D234710E-AC70-43C8-8C2E-91D6327F27E6.png

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On 10/20/2020 at 8:30 PM, Jules said:

This is the second rope (newly purchased) that you can't put an eye splice in.  This one is Sampson XLS3 and there's no way to put a fid in between the inner and outer jacket, let alone try to pull a tail through it.  The outer jacket won't stretch enough to allow it.

Is this something new or am I just buying the wrong rope for making eye splices?

 

I sew my eye splices these days, if it's anything other than bog standard 3-twist.  There was some good research done on sewing, and they can be as strong as an eye splice if done correctly.

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On 11/3/2020 at 1:47 PM, yoyo said:

Yup - just fold the stainless seizing wire so you have two long parallel strands with a smooth open tip/end like the D splicer.  I don't even have a handle on mine.

I used some 24ga SS wire I had sitting around in the toolbox, worked a treat.  Thanks!

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I've now made a couple of usable loops with 2mm dyneema (Samson "lash it")

But... as nice as the loops are, there's clearly a weak spot opposite from the cross-over.  In the video, above, the rigger just tapers the ends and milks them into the bury, so while the top of the loop is (arguably) two thicknesses of the material, the bottom is only one.

Any way to mitigate that weak spot?  I'd thought about trying to overlap the tapered tails before doing a lock-stitch, but there's just not enough room inside (for me) to get that to work. Plus I'm not actually sure it would do anything to add to the strength of the loop

Or is it just "don't worry about it,  it'll never be 200% of rated strength, but it's still 100% of rated strength..."?

 

Capture.JPG.a517df087e3872d1a11ca30cc083c4ce.JPG

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