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LionessRacing

Hidden Hinge/Mortise and Cheap Drill Press

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Need to build a door that will use a Soss Hidden Hinge, so that the "secret" nature of the wine cellar hidden under the staircase landing will be preserved.

 Invisible Hinge, 1/2" x 1-3/4"

 

The specs for a 1" door thickness are to a tolerance of 1/32" in placement and depth. (5/8" boring bit, leaving 6/32" +/- 1/32" per side) 

Doubt I could ever hit that twice on the same piece of stock freehand, and each hinge needs 4 holes, two shallow for the ends, two deep for the centers, connected with a chisel. 

Conundrum: I need to bore an accurate set of 16 holes (2 hinges, x 2 sides, x 4 holes a side), but don't want to spend large $ on a drill press to do it. 

No local rent-a-workshop nearby and the cabinet makers I'm findingare more measure and order than custom fabricate, and frankly this would be an annoyance to a shop that was otherwise busy. Might be able to sweet talk the boatyard into doing for me, or allowing me to use their shop, but that's 90 minutes each way...

 

Any recommendations on good enough cheap bench top drill presses ? 

Harbor Freight has a couple under $100. and Home depot just over that...

 

 

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Router with a plunge cutter + simple jig screwed to the baseplate that straddles the panel?

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Router and template. Soss will sell you a template or you can make one. 

 

products-routerguides3.jpg

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Precise marking of drill locations is essential. 

Use and awl for centre of hole to be drilled and box cutter to outline areas.  A pencil is not sufficiently precise.  

Even with a good drill press you still need a good quality vise to hold the work perfectly aligned to the drill bit.  

Surely there is an anarchist in your neighbourhood that will help you out.....

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Und the obligatory youtube video of how it's done:

For that few, I'd make a template and eyeball the deep vs shallow mortises. You could, if you have a very steady hand, just rout to a line, but that always ends in disaster for me. 

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And here's a router tip for you based on personal experience:

- do NOT use a router at sea

- do NOT use a router at sea freehand

- do NOT use a router at sea freehand without its baseplate

(Hey the fingernail and tip grew back)

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2 minutes ago, Zonker said:

And here's a router tip for you based on personal experience:

- do NOT use a router at sea

- do NOT use a router at sea freehand

- do NOT use a router at sea freehand without its baseplate

(Hey the fingernail and tip grew back)

so you CAN use a router at sea!

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5 minutes ago, Zonker said:

And here's a router tip for you based on personal experience:

- do NOT use a router at sea

- do NOT use a router at sea freehand

- do NOT use a router at sea freehand without its baseplate

(Hey the fingernail and tip grew back)

I can't say I've EVER tried a router without a baseplate. That seems, well, scary as F$$$!

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Well in my defense it was a little wee 1/4" router. Barely an inconvenience.

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1/4" routers, especially those cute little laminate trimmers, are the Chihuahuas of the power tool world. Small but fearless and aggressive. Disrespect them at your peril.

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3 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

Harbor Freight has a couple under $100. and Home depot just over that...

Nawp.  The mid-sized HF drill press is  a fragrant PoS.  I speak from bitter experience. Wobbled the main shaft trying to use a 2 3/4" Forstner bit on pine. The Ryobi is much better for just a little more. 

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34 minutes ago, IStream said:

1/4" routers, especially those cute little laminate trimmers, are the Chihuahuas of the power tool world. Small but fearless and aggressive. Disrespect them at your peril.

i'm gonna buy a makita 1/4 compact in the next week or two. 1.25 hp  $129 CDN at home depot

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Craigslist is your friend.

Over 40 drill presses for sale here starting at $80 ask.

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Soss hinges are crap.

 Look for Brusso hinges, or better yet make your own with a few bits of brass tubing, brass rod, and pen springs (or better yet Shrader tire valve check springs). A #60 drill bit will allow you to undo the hinges for final fit, but it's best to get it right the first time.

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2 hours ago, Zonker said:

And here's a router tip for you based on personal experience:

- do NOT use a router at sea

- do NOT use a router at sea freehand

- do NOT use a router at sea freehand without its baseplate

(Hey the fingernail and tip grew back)

The trick is to use a 3/4 one turn it upside down and hold it between your legs in the cockpit.  Then you have two free hands to work, very safe.....

But definitely not with the base off

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1 minute ago, Mrleft8 said:

Look for Brusso hinges, or better yet make your own with a few bits of brass tubing, brass rod, and pen springs (or better yet Shrader tire valve check springs). A #60 drill bit will allow you to undo the hinges for final fit, but it's best to get it right the first time.

Thiise sondes licke perfectte chance foire you to showecase youre tallenttes and provide a teacheng momment foire the reste of us.                            :)

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10 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

Thiise sondes licke perfectte chance foire you to showecase youre tallenttes and provide a teacheng momment foire the reste of us.                            :)

Basically you make little tiny shock absorbers, with brass tubing a spring, and brass rod. You solder in a very small brass pin to keep the spring from bottoming out.

 Then you put a mating brass tube in the upper and lower parts of the carcase, and gently slide the door into place until you hear the "clicks". The #60 drill bit is so you can later put a sewing needle into the hole to depress the pins, if the door needs adjusting, etc.

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1 hour ago, Mrleft8 said:

make your own with a few bits of brass tubing, brass rod, and pen springs (or better yet Shrader tire valve check springs).

Yeah, that's gonna happen.

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15 minutes ago, justsomeguy! said:

Yeah, that's gonna happen.

If I can do it, so can just about anybody. It's really very easy.

 All you need is a little tubing cutter, a small needle file. Some little drill bits, and a soldering iron.

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9 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

If I can do it, so can just about anybody. It's really very easy.

An invisible hinge? 

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7 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

Need to build a door that will use a Soss Hidden Hinge, so that the "secret" nature of the wine cellar hidden under the staircase landing will be preserved.

 Invisible Hinge, 1/2" x 1-3/4"

 

The specs for a 1" door thickness are to a tolerance of 1/32" in placement and depth. (5/8" boring bit, leaving 6/32" +/- 1/32" per side) 

Doubt I could ever hit that twice on the same piece of stock freehand, and each hinge needs 4 holes, two shallow for the ends, two deep for the centers, connected with a chisel. 

Conundrum: I need to bore an accurate set of 16 holes (2 hinges, x 2 sides, x 4 holes a side), but don't want to spend large $ on a drill press to do it. 

No local rent-a-workshop nearby and the cabinet makers I'm findingare more measure and order than custom fabricate, and frankly this would be an annoyance to a shop that was otherwise busy. Might be able to sweet talk the boatyard into doing for me, or allowing me to use their shop, but that's 90 minutes each way...

 

Any recommendations on good enough cheap bench top drill presses ? 

Harbor Freight has a couple under $100. and Home depot just over that...

 

 

In the 1600s, people with poor diet, no education, annual baths, no dentistry, and crusty underwear managed much more than that, man up!

image.thumb.png.1b8a5c9a557daf75f6a89b689500c553.png

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4 hours ago, warbird said:

man up!

Truth. Hand tools have been forgotten.

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10 hours ago, justsomeguy! said:

An invisible hinge? 

Very invisible.

I forgot to mention a thin brass washer to hold the door up off the  carcase bottom by 1/32"

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MrLeft8 is describing pin hinges (stolen from Lee Valley's website):

Lee Valley Hidden Hinge Pins - Lee Valley Tools

May/May not handle the OP's needs. 

I still say router and template. Freehand rout and clean up with some chisel would work too, but mistakes are unforgiving. Drill press wouldn't be any better than a hand drill, holding the door being drilled would be tough. 

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No.... I'm describing a different hinge, that I developed myself. I'll try to find a picture, or make a drawing and scan it.

 Mine are much more subtle than those.

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20 hours ago, chester said:

i'm gonna buy a makita 1/4 compact in the next week or two. 1.25 hp  $129 CDN at home depot

Problem with the compact router is the view of the work surface is rather compact too ie limited.

Of the four routers I own the vintage Bosch POF 50 1/4" is my favourite with easy removable plunge base so you can run a rotary rasp or burr.

550172b04c2086a13bf768cc2546.jpeg.68f8b1aa7caa8fde7f5134255abdff9c.jpeg

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On 10/26/2020 at 3:04 PM, LionessRacing said:

Need to build a door that will use a Soss Hidden Hinge, so that the "secret" nature of the wine cellar hidden under the staircase landing will be preserved.

 Invisible Hinge, 1/2" x 1-3/4"

 

The specs for a 1" door thickness are to a tolerance of 1/32" in placement and depth. (5/8" boring bit, leaving 6/32" +/- 1/32" per side) 

Doubt I could ever hit that twice on the same piece of stock freehand, and each hinge needs 4 holes, two shallow for the ends, two deep for the centers, connected with a chisel. 

Conundrum: I need to bore an accurate set of 16 holes (2 hinges, x 2 sides, x 4 holes a side), but don't want to spend large $ on a drill press to do it. 

No local rent-a-workshop nearby and the cabinet makers I'm findingare more measure and order than custom fabricate, and frankly this would be an annoyance to a shop that was otherwise busy. Might be able to sweet talk the boatyard into doing for me, or allowing me to use their shop, but that's 90 minutes each way...

 

Any recommendations on good enough cheap bench top drill presses ? 

Harbor Freight has a couple under $100. and Home depot just over that...

 

 

https://1nk5gr1qy5b8f1cok410qdpp-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/RouterGuideInstructs72715.pdf

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always wondered how to drill large objects with a bench top drill press... do you pull the head or base off and mount it sideways then bolt the base on the edge of a work bench? 

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1 minute ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

bolt the base on the edge of a work bench? 

then you cane pivotte to teh side......                 :)

I have fulle size 'companione' dp frome granpa1 and benche toppe 'companione' frome granpa2.

Fulle size allwayes amazes me.                          :)               

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6 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

always wondered how to drill large objects with a bench top drill press... do you pull the head or base off and mount it sideways then bolt the base on the edge of a work bench? 

I would think the drive clamps on the upright tube and can be loosened and rotated.

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14 hours ago, justsomeguy! said:

Truth. Hand tools have been forgotten.

I have neither the years to develop the skill, nor the months to craft it if I did.  A $200 18v router and plunge base combination, possibly with a $37 template  should enable a 1 hr solution. 

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8 hours ago, gptyk said:

Drill press wouldn't be any better than a hand drill, holding the door being drilled would be tough. 

I have a bench with integral vise, and can cut and fit the mortises before assembling door, so the drilling is somewhat simple, a bench top would be adequate clearance. 

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6 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

I have neither the years to develop the skill, nor the months to craft it if I did.  A $200 18v router and plunge base combination, possibly with a $37 template  should enable a 1 hr solution. 

Fair enough.

You forgot the bit and collar set, unless you've a friend to borrow them from.

I'll say it again; practice on some scrap wood of the same thickness to get a feel for the procedure.

Good luck!

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12 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:
14 hours ago, justsomeguy! said:

Truth. Hand tools have been forgotten.

I have neither the years to develop the skill, nor the months to craft it if I did.  A $200 18v router and plunge base combination, possibly with a $37 template  should enable a 1 hr solution. 

I dubbe thee "Inpatient Lionesse Raceng", juste sayeng.............                         :)

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2 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Problem with the compact router is the view of the work surface is rather compact too ie limited.

Of the four routers I own the vintage Bosch POF 50 1/4" is my favourite with easy removable plunge base so you can run a rotary rasp or burr.

550172b04c2086a13bf768cc2546.jpeg.68f8b1aa7caa8fde7f5134255abdff9c.jpeg

Like those so much I have a spare..

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2 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

always wondered how to drill large objects with a bench top drill press... do you pull the head or base off and mount it sideways then bolt the base on the edge of a work bench? 

You cut the mortises before you assemble the frame.

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1 hour ago, Snaggletooth said:

I dubbe thee "Inpatient Lionesse Raceng", juste sayeng.............                         :)

You have little idea.... 

currently building the wine cellar & Bass Absorbing panels, about to re-commission “Lioness” after a 2500 mile move, settling into a new home with two households of stuff to sort  

and working via network   
but “inpatient” is not quite apt.  

 

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3 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

You have little idea.... 

currently building the wine cellar & Bass Absorbing panels, about to re-commission “Lioness” after a 2500 mile move, settling into a new home with two households of stuff to sort  

and working via network   
but “inpatient” is not quite apt.  

 

save you some time...    just take all your stuff and donate it now...  horde and hide the things you cherish..

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12 hours ago, olaf hart said:

Like those so much I have a spare..

I've never seen one in the US...  I want one though, the narrow body looks like it'd work in places that the porter cable pattern don't go...

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On 10/27/2020 at 11:00 PM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

save you some time...    just take all your stuff and donate it now...  horde and hide the things you cherish..

Oh we have been, on the Left Coast before moving, and here as well. 

 

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Have done similar with router and template. But a dowling jig will also do this. They are self centering and have sizes up to 1/2" You could drill a pilot for the boring bit to follow. There also might be a 5/8" if you look. It certainly will allow you to drill pilots for the fasteners. 

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2 minutes ago, Locus said:

Have done similar with router and template. But a dowling jig will also do this. They are self centering and have sizes up to 1/2" You could drill a pilot for the boring bit to follow. There also might be a 5/8" if you look. It certainly will allow you to drill pilots for the fasteners. 

Or make a simple hand  drilling jig 

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On 10/27/2020 at 8:57 AM, Raz'r said:

I can't say I've EVER tried a router without a baseplate. That seems, well, scary as F$$$!

Can't see what the problem is. I use a die grinder with a 6mm 4 flute solid carbide endmill all the time. Still have all my fingers. Great tool for wood butchery.

FKT

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Can't see what the problem is. I use a die grinder with a 6mm 4 flute solid carbide endmill all the time. Still have all my fingers. Great tool for wood butchery.

FKT

don't think a die grinder will be spinning as fast as a router... 

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8 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

don't think a die grinder will be spinning as fast as a router... 

It sure as hell wouldn't weigh as much as my big Makita plunge router, so a little easier to use.

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A die grinder sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

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12 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

A die grinder sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

 

That is exactly not what to do when trying to make an invisible hinge mortise.

 That is how red neck assholes end up cutting their dicks off.

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3 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

That is exactly not what to do when trying to make an invisible hinge mortise.

 That is how red neck assholes end up cutting their dicks off.

Well, I'm all for that. But I agree. I wouldn't use something like that for that purpose, it would be like trying to chainsaw a set of cabinets.

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A cheap-azz router, and a set of templates, this job is done. Could be done by hand, too. But needs good gouges to do the radius. I don't think I'd use forstner bits as I never get the alignment right on this kinda crap, except for 32mm hinges with the Kreg jig.  I'd freehand rout before I tried a drill. Maybe not for the deep mortise where it really doesn't matter.  (And I have 2 drill presses in the shop... It's just a tough thing for me  to do with a drill with 1/32 accuracy, I suck at that - but I can do that all day long with a router)

If I was close to LionessRacing, I'd happily oblige to cut those mortises.  Are there no Anarchists that would trade a beer for a mortise? 

Die Grinder with router bit? I like my fingers, I'll keep em if I can. 

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4 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Well, I'm all for that. But I agree. I wouldn't use something like that for that purpose, it would be like trying to chainsaw a set of cabinets.

Hey it works for me. Still got all my appendages, YMMV. I was carving out some hinge recesses 2 days ago. Just have to work against the direction of rotation and wear decent PPE.

If I wanted something precise in size & location I'd just toss it on the horizontal boring mill and use the readouts. Going from one extreme to the other...

FKT

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3 hours ago, gptyk said:

Die Grinder with router bit? I like my fingers, I'll keep em if I can. 

No no no.

Die grinder with a 6mm solid carbide helical flute 4 flute metal-cutting end mill. Router bits are a joke WRT hardness & toughness.

Great for opening up undersized holes in awkward spaces too, just don't let the thing dig in & grab. Wear eye protection preferably a full face shield because if you break off the bit it's going to be moving fast.

FKT

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The template router for sure, a good excuse to buy a couple more tools.  I have always had good luck getting most of the material out then finishing with router and jig.  No burn marks and only cutting on one side.  In this case once you had it laid out use a smaller Forster bit to remove most of the material then put the jig on and run around the edge with the router and a couple quick passes in the middle to face. Offset laminate routers are good for this lots of control, but they are easier to tip so gotta watch that.

 

 

 

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couple hours making a jig or template beats couple days making new doors or frames. 

wood putty does come in a quart pail

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Rockler has the Soss.

https://www.rockler.com/soss-routing-jig-select-size

I find small to mid-size Soss have a lot of vertical play. Definitely lightweight hinges. Sugatsune are a bit tighter, tho hard to find. I just drill 'em by hand with a forstner bit. Router + template is possibly more accurate, with the caveat that routers bobble & can ruin a workpiece faster than any other tool.

 

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44 minutes ago, Diarmuid said:

just drill 'em by hand with a forstner bit

^ Since it sounds like the jamb might be already installed. 

 

There's also Tectus hinges.  Same looks as as SOSS but adjustable.  Not sure how small they make them but I've seen big ones for passage doors and they're pretty nice. 

http://www.tectushinges.com/

 

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On 10/29/2020 at 8:13 PM, Mrleft8 said:

That is exactly not what to do when trying to make an invisible hinge mortise.

 That is how red neck assholes end up cutting their dicks off.

Acquaintance did a testicle with a 4 inch grinder...:huh:

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Sugatsune, (previously mentioned), would be my recommendation.

 

One of those hidden hinge brands you can bury using a domino.  I don't remember which, a buddy at a different shop was talking about them.

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7 hours ago, warbird said:

Acquaintance did a testicle with a 4 inch grinder...:huh:

Just goes to show you, size isn't everything. A 4 inch grinder can get the job done.

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cumbersome as it may seem .I find i can do quite intricate and exacting work with a makita 3601B, natural position for hands with these is at the base so no "top heavy" feel at all, oh and the visibility is great

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