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Matagi

New Pogo 44 first sailing pics

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00Pogo-44-Spi-Asymetrique-1.jpg

0-561-Pogo-44-1920x1080.jpg

Looks good to me. Logical next step after the 36.

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As a graphically-driven person, I would suggest that having the lower half of the 'g' in Pogo falling off the chine may have been a mistake. It now looks like it has 'pooo' down the side....

 

Apart from that, yes please, I will have one.

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1 hour ago, Teener said:

Makes me want one all the more.

The pooo on the side?

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3 hours ago, Terrorvision said:

As a graphically-driven person, I would suggest that having the lower half of the 'g' in Pogo falling off the chine may have been a mistake. It now looks like it has 'pooo' down the side....

 

Apart from that, yes please, I will have one.

Let me provide you with a quick self-assessment to test if you're seeing ghosts. What do you see?

logo-design-fail-jazz-classes.jpg

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I might get on board with the Junior Jazz Dance Aasses too but I'm afraid that they are under age so I'll just have to watch from the bleachers.

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To cruise,  not to race, right?

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The word for the number 4 sounds like the word for death in many Asian languages and is avoided half-seriously sort of like the number 13 is avoided in the West.

 

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9 hours ago, Roleur said:

To cruise,  not to race, right?

I’m sure there are those who will try and race it but I’m not sure it will work for them! There was one boat that did the Route de Rhum a few years back that was a Pogo 12.50 but managed to obtain a class 40 measurement certificate and was a hybrid of the 12.50 cruiser and the S3 class 40. I’d love a 44 that’s been turbo’d up a little but can still be cruised 

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11 hours ago, apophenia said:

The word for the number 4 sounds like the word for death in many Asian languages and is avoided half-seriously sort of like the number 13 is avoided in the West.

 

Just rename it 88/2 or 8+8/2 (if metric reference is better)..

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On 10/27/2020 at 3:53 AM, Matagi said:

0-561-Pogo-44-1920x1080.jpg

Weird spreader spacing.

Is that the new thing these days?

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4 minutes ago, Liquid said:

Weird spreader spacing.

Is that the new thing these days?

Not really new - Pogo's carbon rigs are always high tensioned and err on the side of being conservative and safe. No backstays needed to keep the rig up, wide beam - might as well take advantage of the inherent design.

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13 minutes ago, Liquid said:

Weird spreader spacing.

Is that the new thing these days?

I thought so as well. I suspect you can get overlapping headsails, esp. C0 more closely?

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6 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Not really new - Pogo's carbon rigs are always high tensioned and err on the side of being conservative and safe. No backstays needed to keep the rig up, wide beam - might as well take advantage of the inherent design.

It's the vertical spacing that looks strange to me, like it's missing a 3rd set...

Maybe it's that the bottom spreader is closer to the deck than the top spreader is to the top of the mast...?

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19 minutes ago, Liquid said:

Weird spreader spacing.

Is that the new thing these days?

I suspect that the first spreader is low because it is deck stepped...

Also it looks like there are 2 D3s with one stabilising the upper panel in the middle.

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5 minutes ago, Liquid said:

It's the vertical spacing that looks strange to me, like it's missing a 3rd set...

Maybe it's that the bottom spreader is closer to the deck than the top spreader is to the top of the mast...?

Maybe? The spreader spacing look more conventional if you take in a reef and  2nd spreader is just above where the 3rd reef would be, and not knowing what her design brief are, I wouldn't be surprised if they speced that rig to have enough sail area to get moving under 8-10 knots of breeze but the plan is to sail with a reef virtually all the time you would be in the trades. 

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3 hours ago, Miffy said:

Maybe? The spreader spacing look more conventional if you take in a reef and  2nd spreader is just above where the 3rd reef would be, and not knowing what her design brief are, I wouldn't be surprised if they speced that rig to have enough sail area to get moving under 8-10 knots of breeze but the plan is to sail with a reef virtually all the time you would be in the trades. 

That would be a change from recent Pogo designs.  The 40 and 30 certainly don't carry reef early sail plans. 

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3 hours ago, Liquid said:

Weird spreader spacing.

Is that the new thing these days?

It's clearly designed around simplified hanging of the yacht club burgee!

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3 hours ago, Liquid said:

Weird spreader spacing.

Is that the new thing these days?

It looks like they are experimenting with some tip flex/auto de-powering with that config. Any windy pics with the boat going upwind straight on?

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32 minutes ago, Roleur said:

That would be a change from recent Pogo designs.  The 40 and 30 certainly don't carry reef early sail plans. 

Maybe? The 36 and 30 with the new evo rig is a lot more canvas than when it was first launched. 

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The Pogo 44's rig is designed to run a inner furling staysail (about 20 square meters in area) using a removable torsion stay.

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4 hours ago, Irrational 14 said:

It looks like they are experimenting with some tip flex/auto de-powering with that config. Any windy pics with the boat going upwind straight on?

Class 40s run similar rig configurations, there are two things at play, the chainplate width (beam of the boat) and the cap shroud angle to the mast. In the case of the 44 the upper spreader is probably a slight bit shorter than the chainplate width but not hugely different.  In some of the pics you can see the upper intermediate shroud which offsets the inner forestay. 

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Like @ctutmark said it’s become a trend that started in class 40s and has been done by Pogo in their boats for the 30. Beneteau and Jeanneau now also do it with the performance rig version of the OC41.1 and with other models. The big reason is lowering cog of the boat and reducing windage up the rig. The MD of Z Spars in France told me that by adopting this spreader arrangement on a Jeanneau SO410 they can take 80kg out the keel and therefore lighten the structure by a couple of percent and the list goes on, when you build 400+ boats that represents a large cost saving

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Fashions fads come and go... this new pogo seems to want their transom to have more wide open access. I can see the advantages of doing more Mediterranean moorings with the sporty configuration.

 

 

 

Screen_Shot_2020-10-29_at_8_55.14_AM.png

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Haha... has Pogo ever made a closed transom? Even the 8.5 & 10.50s were open access

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3 hours ago, Black Jack said:

Fashions fads come and go... this new pogo seems to want their transom to have more wide open access. I can see the advantages of doing more Mediterranean moorings with the sporty configuration.

 

 

 

 

Sorry... You were saying...??

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Not knocking the boat.  I realize the graphics are part of the advertising ploy.  But I would rather see a clean understated paint scheme.  

The boat looks nice from most angles - however I find the side view to be chunky and unflattering (but adds volume below).  Handrails on the seat backs are an interesting choice.  I'd like to see some photos of how they configured the cabin top and sail handling business end.

437-Pogo-44.jpg

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I prefer the way they did the swim platform / traveler area on the 50 - any ideas why they didn't keep the sheerline flat all the way aft?

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On 10/30/2020 at 6:26 AM, yoyo said:

Not knocking the boat.  I realize the graphics are part of the advertising ploy.  But I would rather see a clean understated paint scheme.  

The boat looks nice from most angles - however I find the side view to be chunky and unflattering (but adds volume below).  Handrails on the seat backs are an interesting choice.  I'd like to see some photos of how they configured the cabin top and sail handling business end.

437-Pogo-44.jpg

That f@cking sock!

I know that's basically the only way to get that big bastard down by yourselves/two-up in a blow, but still...

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  I fully realize the advantages of the swept spreaders in removing the backstay (s). But at some points, you need to go deep downwind. Like the Hunter B&R rigs, the only way to keep the main in one piece is to drop it altogether when running. I'd prefer about 1/2 the sweep angle & runners. Easy enuff to design so that runners are not critical to rig staying up.

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On 10/31/2020 at 7:54 PM, longy said:

swept spreaders ... but at some points, you need to go deep downwind

I wonder if that's another advantage of having the top spreader so low - you can set the main up with a load of twist and the top will open up forward of the spreader tip?

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On 10/31/2020 at 1:39 AM, Kenny Dumas said:

So you can step to a dock

good point.. but it sure is fugly

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On 10/31/2020 at 2:54 PM, longy said:

  I fully realize the advantages of the swept spreaders in removing the backstay (s). But at some points, you need to go deep downwind. Like the Hunter B&R rigs, the only way to keep the main in one piece is to drop it altogether when running. I'd prefer about 1/2 the sweep angle & runners. Easy enuff to design so that runners are not critical to rig staying up.

I’ve never heard of any downwind limitations on the pogo axxon rigs - they’re nothing like hunters and the rig tension is like multiple times higher than conventional rigs 

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3 hours ago, Miffy said:

I’ve never heard of any downwind limitations on the pogo axxon rigs - they’re nothing like hunters and the rig tension is like multiple times higher than conventional rigs 

Apparent wind sailing too...completely different type of sailing... even when I was solo watch on my 40 with 25-30 up the bum down the Portuguese coast, was still gybing usual angles with just solent and main...why plod DDW, when a little hotter is on the step and smoking...only PITA is reefing while deep- but I just over sheet the heady, poke it up a bit and let the main sit back winded while sorting it...Not that hard in what I’ve sailed in so far!

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The 44 looks nice. Lazy- but any interior info/pics?  Guessing similar to the 12.5 etc?

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On 10/31/2020 at 7:54 PM, longy said:

  I fully realize the advantages of the swept spreaders in removing the backstay (s). But at some points, you need to go deep downwind. Like the Hunter B&R rigs, the only way to keep the main in one piece is to drop it altogether when running. I'd prefer about 1/2 the sweep angle & runners. Easy enuff to design so that runners are not critical to rig staying up.

22.5° is the minimum angle you need on a spreader to do away with the backstay or runners entirely. Like others have said you’ll sail this boat on higher angles downwind and use the vast stability the hull has to offer. Also like all class 40s the new Pogo also does without a vang so you’re fully reliant on the sheet and traveller to control twist. It’s almost impossible to keep a mainsail off the spreaders these days but as long as you have patches on the sail for them I don’t see it being a problem. We have a 3di Endurance mainsail that has done nearly 5000 miles and that sits on the spreaders all the time and is perfectly fine.

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9 hours ago, plugger said:

.why plod DDW, when a little hotter is on the step and smoking

Deep and flat will be more comfortable ride for the cruiser/passengers the boat is supposed to be targeted for.  Sure -- sail on the step for speed, better VMG and fun but trying to do anything "cruisie" down below heeled over will not be enjoyable.  I can hear the yelling ...... "honey for the 10th time please crack off and flatten the boat I'm trying to cook"

I hope there are plenty of hand holds in the cabin ceiling..

 

MjAyMDAzZGZlYjA1MjAwYTU3YWNmYjMyYWIxOTA3ZGE0NzBkNDk?width=630&focuspoint=50%2C50&cropresize=1&client_id=bpeditorial&sign=6aab625c7d68df832bf31e48b587ff88c5cad1f59642574607d09a1c79f95564

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3 hours ago, yoyo said:

Deep and flat will be more comfortable ride for the cruiser/passengers the boat is supposed to be targeted for.  Sure -- sail on the step for speed, better VMG and fun but trying to do anything "cruisie" down below heeled over will not be enjoyable.  I can hear the yelling ...... "honey for the 10th time please crack off and flatten the boat I'm trying to cook"

I hope there are plenty of hand holds in the cabin ceiling..

 


I've sailed on Pogo 12.50 and Pogo 30s & the 10.50; they really sit rather nicely in a steady heel & let the hull & deep keel do its thing and keep the boat steady. If I were cooking I wouldn't want to be DDW. 

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I expect the dynamic stability of a keel to increase with hydrodynamic load but have never seen a model or measurement. We know that flow increases dynamic stability, but how much does angle of attack, and why?

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1 hour ago, Miffy said:

If I were cooking I wouldn't want to be DDW. 

That's why I said deep and flat.  Not necessarily DDW - just not arced up on the step.  A reduction in heel does wonders for passenger comfort especially down below when cooking, eating or anything else.  Arc it up after the meal if you must -- its a cruiser disguised as a race boat. 

I know if I wasn't racing I'd flatten things out at least for the meals.

 

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It’s still a cruising boat, just a Frenchman’s interpretation of cruising! 

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On 11/3/2020 at 3:06 AM, Miffy said:


I've sailed on Pogo 12.50 and Pogo 30s & the 10.50; they really sit rather nicely in a steady heel & let the hull & deep keel do its thing and keep the boat steady. If I were cooking I wouldn't want to be DDW. 

Just confirmed- the misso says it’s fine as the motion and heel is generally quite easy to deal with. DDW or similar is worse... and up breeze in high wind. 27-33 gusting into the low 40’s at 65 TWA sucks balls...

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On 11/3/2020 at 5:24 AM, yoyo said:

That's why I said deep and flat.  Not necessarily DDW - just not arced up on the step.  A reduction in heel does wonders for passenger comfort especially down below when cooking, eating or anything else.  Arc it up after the meal if you must -- its a cruiser disguised as a race boat. 

I know if I wasn't racing I'd flatten things out at least for the meals.

 

Agreed mate. We’ve found her pretty steady so far- I can’t help but push it...to chew the miles!  But cannot avoid the yells every now and then...it happens haha “keep it fucking flat- I’m trying to cook”  

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1 hour ago, plugger said:

Just confirmed- the misso says it’s fine as the motion and heel is generally quite easy to deal with. DDW or similar is worse... and up breeze in high wind. 27-33 gusting into the low 40’s at 65 TWA sucks balls...

Yeah, but 27-33 gusting into the low 40's at 150-160 TWA is fingertip control and just fucking awesome :).

Even with just white sails.... 

 

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5 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

Yeah, but 27-33 gusting into the low 40's at 150-160 TWA is fingertip control and just fucking awesome :).

Even with just white sails.... 

 

Honestly Pogo's ppl are always very honest about the boats they're trying to build - easy, safe with lots of margin for fast cruising. But seems like there's still a lot of ppl buying/considering them thinking they're going to chew it up in IRC or something.

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Single mainsheet. Is it sheeting to the cabin top? Shaggy - what does yours do?

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7 hours ago, Miffy said:

Honestly Pogo's ppl are always very honest about the boats they're trying to build - easy, safe with lots of margin for fast cruising. But seems like there's still a lot of ppl buying/considering them thinking they're going to chew it up in IRC or something.

Yep, I was looking at a Ker 40 as one of the options when I was shopping, if I wanted to win IRC pickle dishes I would've gone for the Ker. 

My tick box list was short handed capable, race as well as cruise, shallow water capable, fast, tough, safe and fun to sail.

Structures and JPK nailed that to a tee and why I went for the pogo. JPK were a close second. 

 

1 hour ago, Jono said:

Single mainsheet. Is it sheeting to the cabin top? Shaggy - what does yours do?

HIya Jono,

Mainsheet is a single line tethered to the traveller car with a 3:1 in the boom, sheeted to the port cabin top winch. The traveller is just in front of the helm positions and takes up the full length of the cockpit floor, about 3.5mtrs.

Its easy to sheet in second gear even in heavy airs, the trade off is its a lot of line when you've got the mainsheet fully eased and you want to throw in a fast gybe.

IMG_1830_zpsi6irtuww.thumb.jpg.06699b4ba37a62a1c432f6c1fd144e5d.jpg

 

IMG_0304_zpscvobly8s.thumb.JPG.07cf8029bbe57f2ef6309120d174cd83.JPG     

    

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11 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

Yep, I was looking at a Ker 40 as one of the options when I was shopping, if I wanted to win IRC pickle dishes I would've gone for the Ker. 

My tick box list was short handed capable, race as well as cruise, shallow water capable, fast, tough, safe and fun to sail.

Structures and JPK nailed that to a tee and why I went for the pogo. JPK were a close second. 

 

HIya Jono,

Mainsheet is a single line tethered to the traveller car with a 3:1 in the boom, sheeted to the port cabin top winch. The traveller is just in front of the helm positions and takes up the full length of the cockpit floor, about 3.5mtrs.

Its easy to sheet in second gear even in heavy airs, the trade off is its a lot of line when you've got the mainsheet fully eased and you want to throw in a fast gybe.

IMG_1830_zpsi6irtuww.thumb.jpg.06699b4ba37a62a1c432f6c1fd144e5d.jpg

 

IMG_0304_zpscvobly8s.thumb.JPG.07cf8029bbe57f2ef6309120d174cd83.JPG     

    

My tick box list was short handed capable, race as well as cruise, shallow water capable, fast, tough, safe and fun to sail.

Second that Amen!

 

 

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On 11/4/2020 at 3:06 PM, shaggybaxter said:

Yep, I was looking at a Ker 40 as one of the options when I was shopping, if I wanted to win IRC pickle dishes I would've gone for the Ker. 

My tick box list was short handed capable, race as well as cruise, shallow water capable, fast, tough, safe and fun to sail.

Structures and JPK nailed that to a tee and why I went for the pogo. JPK were a close second. 

 

HIya Jono,

Mainsheet is a single line tethered to the traveller car with a 3:1 in the boom, sheeted to the port cabin top winch. The traveller is just in front of the helm positions and takes up the full length of the cockpit floor, about 3.5mtrs.

Its easy to sheet in second gear even in heavy airs, the trade off is its a lot of line when you've got the mainsheet fully eased and you want to throw in a fast gybe.

IMG_1830_zpsi6irtuww.thumb.jpg.06699b4ba37a62a1c432f6c1fd144e5d.jpg

 

IMG_0304_zpscvobly8s.thumb.JPG.07cf8029bbe57f2ef6309120d174cd83.JPG     

    

:wub:
 

what is your main sq ft?  Sailmaker?  Winches for the main sheet?  If you’ve already posted those, somewhere? The traveller car control blocks are deliciously trick...

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3 hours ago, Amati said:

:wub:
 

what is your main sq ft?  Sailmaker?  Winches for the main sheet?  If you’ve already posted those, somewhere? The traveller car control blocks are deliciously trick...

Thanks Amati,

Mainsail is 50m2, so that's about what ..500ft2?  Sail wardrobe is from Incidence, but my local sailmaker savant is Hood Sails.

Winches are Harken 46ST with the top starboard winch as two speed electric (main halyard). It's a lot of work hoisting the main manually when your solo, so I girled out and upgraded that one to electric. Best thing I ever did, it's a cinch to hoist the main even solo in a breeze.

The mainsheet lives on the top port winch, 5 wraps, jammer open and in the self tailor. It's a handy spot, you can stand in the cabinway and grind, or pop up from below and ease when big gusts come through without getting all suited up.  

1457658624_IMG_1754_zpslrgtze6n(1).thumb.jpg.71c2f18519d98bf85f5af9f132d331f8.jpg

Cheers!

SB

 

     

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21 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

Thanks Amati,

Mainsail is 50m2, so that's about what ..500  538 ft2?  Sail wardrobe is from Incidence, but my local sailmaker savant is Hood Sails.

Winches are Harken 46ST with the top starboard winch as two speed electric (main halyard). It's a lot of work hoisting the main manually when your solo, so I girled out and upgraded that one to electric. Best thing I ever did, it's a cinch to hoist the main even solo in a breeze.

The mainsheet lives on the top port winch, 5 wraps, jammer open and in the self tailor. It's a handy spot, you can stand in the cabinway and grind, or pop up from below and ease when big gusts come through without getting all suited up.  

1457658624_IMG_1754_zpslrgtze6n(1).thumb.jpg.71c2f18519d98bf85f5af9f132d331f8.jpg

Cheers!

SB

 

     

FIFY:P

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31 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

You sound like you're itching a bit there, 7070

It's making me all itchy.

I might go sailing for the afternoon. Work can wait half a day.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, shaggybaxter said:

It's making me all itchy.

I might go sailing for the afternoon. Work can wait half a day.

 

 

 

stooooop it...Bingo is sitting all lonely on the hard in Athens.  Still...i hope.  Fingers crossed-  boat manager has been MIA for weeks.  Lucky ive had a mate who lives there check her not long ago...Waiting for the morning I wake up and the world is back sane again...and we can all enjoy the freedoms in our life again!

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33 minutes ago, plugger said:

stooooop it...Bingo is sitting all lonely on the hard in Athens.  Still...i hope.  Fingers crossed-  boat manager has been MIA for weeks.  Lucky ive had a mate who lives there check her not long ago...Waiting for the morning I wake up and the world is back sane again...and we can all enjoy the freedoms in our life again!

Man, that must suck Plugger, sorry to hear it. 

 

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Thanks for sharing the link to the pics - got to say a little underwhelmed re the layout. Totally understand Finot Conq and Roseo Design carrying the DNA of the very successful Pogo36 forward... but for a boat this big, that aft starboard head seems a bit awkward and the lack of forward visibility is a little disappointing. Kind of similar to what RM's interior layout can be but somehow more claustrophobic. 

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On 11/20/2020 at 7:59 AM, shaggybaxter said:

Man, that must suck Plugger, sorry to hear it. 

 

Thanks mate. Could be worse though Shaggy...  

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On 11/5/2020 at 12:06 AM, shaggybaxter said:

Yep, I was looking at a Ker 40 as one of the options when I was shopping, if I wanted to win IRC pickle dishes I would've gone for the Ker. 

My tick box list was short handed capable, race as well as cruise, shallow water capable, fast, tough, safe and fun to sail.

Structures and JPK nailed that to a tee and why I went for the pogo. JPK were a close second. 

JPKs can win IRC pickle dishes... to the point that there are nearly indispensable to win one in their class!

When IMS was more used Pogo could win but a Pogo is against all the ideas the RORC (and YCF) have of a racing boat so don't stand a chance in IRC.

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