DialedN_07

New F18 - Goodall Design Akurra

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Goodall Design announced Tuesday the name of their next gen F18 cat.  
Akurra. 

Rendering below.  Don't know how accurate the rendering will be to the actual production model but I find it very interesting that they rendered it in yellow.  Anyone think they will actually produce the boat in this color? My vote is no....but who knows.
Not a heckuva lot they can do but conform to the box rule, but obviously it will have a decksweeper main, optimized jib to work with the main, likely twin, skin trampoline.  Any other thoughts?

123002710_10164270203040627_7944227766725457380_o.jpg

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Higher aspect ratio boards?

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10 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

the bow looks much like the eXploder A-class of 2013 to 2016.  A fast boat.

 

 

46511300_1996538670401243_5829046669722779648_o.jpg

Yes it was a fast shape back in the day. Been superseded by the AD3 shape which is demonstrably quicker. 

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5 hours ago, WetnWild said:

Yes it was a fast shape back in the day. Been superseded by the AD3 shape which is demonstrably quicker. 

Quicker for foiling, I bet if you put straight boards in both boats that the AD3 is the slower shape.

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5 minutes ago, darth reapius said:

Quicker for foiling, I bet if you put straight boards in both boats that the AD3 is the slower shape.

No one has put straight boards in an A cat since 2009 so that would be difficult to test. 
Classic boats are built with continuous curve C boards. When the AGM decision in Poland 2017 was made to establish the Classic discipline there was a meeting between the Exploder builder (Jakub) designer (Gonzalo) and a couple of leading sailors. The old shape and the AD3 shape were considered as a production initiative. The design numbers strongly favoured the AD3 shape and it has been produced as a specific classic boat for two and a half years. I’ve had one for two years and had the earlier shape for two years before that. I’ve found the AD3 to be faster using both a classic sail and a decksweeper in all conditions and competition up to Worlds level. That’s been my observation of other sailors too. 
 

Now back to F18 discussion. It will be interesting to see how the new Goodall boat measures up against the current benchmarks of the Exploder and Edge. 

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On 10/30/2020 at 4:56 PM, WetnWild said:

Now back to F18 discussion. It will be interesting to see how the new Goodall boat measures up against the current benchmarks of the Exploder and Edge. 

That’s going to come down to build quality and in particular platform stiffness.  If this is just the C2 with a face lift then improvements will be incremental at best.

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On 10/31/2020 at 9:24 PM, SCARECROW said:

That’s going to come down to build quality and in particular platform stiffness.  If this is just the C2 with a face lift then improvements will be incremental at best.

It's not a facelift, there is a lot going on below the waterline and the construction. Best part is they will finally be able to compete with Edge and Exploder on color choices!  

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I think its great that they haven't gone all out carbon fibre with foils and all. It keeps the boat accessible to all avid sailors and doesn't turn it into an America's Cup boat. We need more boatbuilders to build f18s because at the moment we only have a handful of players. Looking forward to seeing the boat in person :)

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On 11/22/2020 at 2:33 AM, Dazz said:

It's not a facelift, there is a lot going on below the waterline and the construction. Best part is they will finally be able to compete with Edge and Exploder on color choices!  

Any updates on this? PM sent.

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On 11/26/2020 at 6:36 PM, FoilingNim0s said:

I think its great that they haven't gone all out carbon fibre with foils and all. It keeps the boat accessible to all avid sailors and doesn't turn it into an America's Cup boat. We need more boatbuilders to build f18s because at the moment we only have a handful of players. Looking forward to seeing the boat in person :)

Umm, class rules prohibit the use of carbon and lifting foils. Plenty of builders as well, you have Exploder (Scorpion), Nacra (Infusion Mk. 3 and Edge), Cirrus (R2), Falcon, Windrush (Edge) and Goodall (C2 and Akurra).

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Just some notes from videos put out recently and looking at it a bit more.

They made some adjustments to the hulls as well:
Additional volume in the back of the hulls.  Slight modification to increase volume in the front of the hulls along with the new bow shape (taking cues from the new Viper).
Reduced the slight keel line under the hulls to make a flatter hull and increase potential top speed.  
Created a concave at the transom to reduce drag.

A few changes to the sail-plan.  
Obviously decksweeper main, but then lowered the bridle apex and redesigned the foot of the jib to increase flow over the bottom of the decksweeper.

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37 minutes ago, DialedN_07 said:

Just some notes from videos put out recently and looking at it a bit more.

They made some adjustments to the hulls as well:
Additional volume in the back of the hulls.  Slight modification to increase volume in the front of the hulls along with the new bow shape (taking cues from the new Viper).
Reduced the slight keel line under the hulls to make a flatter hull and increase potential top speed.  
Created a concave at the transom to reduce drag.

A few changes to the sail-plan.  
Obviously decksweeper main, but then lowered the bridle apex and redesigned the foot of the jib to increase flow over the bottom of the decksweeper.

Yes, basically the hull shape is a Scorpion look-alike. I would have to see them in person to get more details, i.e total hull volume is hard to see in pictures unless other known boats are in the frame. They went to very similar rudder and daggerboard plan forms as well. This is similar to where Nacra went with the Evolution. I certainly think both will be quick (Evolution and Akurra), but its a bit of a wait and see with no races against the top Scorpion teams to date.

Personally I am more interested in the construction details, i.e how much additional reinforcement did they manage to put in the Akurra, and where are the boats being produced. Quality control is just as important as the design, and building in a more 1st world country tends to result in a higher quality, longer lasting platform.

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3 hours ago, F18 Sailor said:

and where are the boats being produced. Quality control is just as important as the design, and building in a more 1st world country tends to result in a higher quality, longer lasting platform.

Brett was making heaps of posts on bookface 12-18 months ago about the importance of buying Australian made products.  It took a lot of self control at the time (which has clearly run out by the fact I’m writing this) not to reply and ask where Goodall boats are built.

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15 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

Brett was making heaps of posts on bookface 12-18 months ago about the importance of buying Australian made products.  It took a lot of self control at the time (which has clearly run out by the fact I’m writing this) not to reply and ask where Goodall boats are built.

I know some boats were built in Australia (2010-2011 C2's for example), other hulls were built at a contract manufacturer. I wonder if Brett has brought the Akurra production back to Australia?

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On 1/3/2021 at 5:03 PM, F18 Sailor said:

Umm, class rules prohibit the use of carbon and lifting foils. Plenty of builders as well, you have Exploder (Scorpion), Nacra (Infusion Mk. 3 and Edge), Cirrus (R2), Falcon, Windrush (Edge) and Goodall (C2 and Akurra).

You seem to misunderstand my point. I know the 'current' class rules prohibit foils. However as we have seen with many classes, rules change as a result of modernisation of boats. I think its a matter of time before they change the F18 class rules. As for F18 boat builders, I was commenting on the decreased number of boatbuilders. Thanks for the list of F18s, however, I have been racing against F18s for the last couple of years...

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Nim0s,

   I think the current F18 rule set is frozen (for the most part, only minor wording edits from here out) for the next 2 years. The trouble with where the class goes from here is any change (lower weight, foils) almost entirely obsoletes the existing class. The only one that might not (at least not overnight) is allowing the use of carbon in the hull while keeping the existing minimum weight, but that would be pretty silly.

In terms of builders, I’m still missing your point...there are plenty of builders in the class (more than other box rule catamarans). I suspect most have extra production capacity if demand picked up.

 

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Its been obvious since the early 2000's that the F18 was overweight and could be made lighter and yet its continued on as a popular class, probably the only catamaran class to do so. There are multiple reasons outside of foils and carbon for that to have occurred.

Why change a vibrant class with plenty of builders, large number of participants, to imitate the already exiting Nacra 17 Olympic class, just because a tiny few want carbon and foils. Go buy a Nacra 17.

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From everything I've heard stateside, a good majority of F18 sailors/members want the box rule to stay where it's at.  The decksweeper was an obvious choice, but there was even a bit of push-back about allowing that.

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My opinion is the F18 would be an even better boat at 350lbs with c-boards and t-foil rudders. Basically a two man version of a classic A-Cat. Yes, you could go lighter, but it won't be as robust. Yes, you could go full foiling but it won't be as quick on average for amateur teams, and it would be far more dangerous. The two reasons not to do this are cost and class obsolescence. No F18 sailors I speak to wants to sail against less boat, so obsolescence is the greatest reason the boat is frozen in development at this point.

As to the DS development, there was pushback in the U.S because, well, its the U.S...historically a lot of F18 sailors have been born out single manufacturer one design classes. They don't like change, and anything that forces them to spend more money. My take is that the DS is faster, looks good, and for experienced crews has given new life to the boat. It has also breathed new life into the class and given a second wind to boats like the C2 that benefit greatly from the reduction in CoE, especially downwind in a blow! The downside is it is more challenging to train very green crews with, it costs a bit more, and in my opinion, has really driven the competitive crew weight to class minimums. It was already mostly there for U.S sailors, but downwind in under 10kts of breeze, sailing at 350 lbs+ is pretty painful with the DS at the top of the fleet.

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On 1/13/2021 at 1:05 PM, F18 Sailor said:

The downside is it is more challenging to train very green crews with, it costs a bit more, and in my opinion, has really driven the competitive crew weight to class minimums. It was already mostly there for U.S sailors, but downwind in under 10kts of breeze, sailing at 350 lbs+ is pretty painful with the DS at the top of the fleet.

All interesting points.  I'd like to hear your thoughts on why the DS requires a lighter crew.  I'm certain you are correct on this, I just didn't realize there was a relation between the two.
Also, the downwind with DS is disadvantaged because of the reduced sail area aloft, or some other reason?

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The DS doesn’t require a lighter crew, it just enables the lighter crews to be competitive up the wind range more so than in the past. They have the same edge in light air as always, so effectively across a range of conditions, the lighter crews are going to be more competitive than in the pre-DS era. That is my take. 

Downwind in medium conditions, where the crew isn’t trapping but you are flying a hull or trying to, the classic sail with more area up high is faster. When it’s over 15kts of breeze though, the DS is drastically quicker upwind and marginally quicker downwind. In very light air both sails are about the same.

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