Cashelmore

Amateur couple rebuilds salvage cruiser

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On 12/26/2020 at 3:29 PM, SloopJonB said:

There's been a lot of discussion about the future sale-ability of this boat but one aspect has been overlooked.

Would you buy a boat that had been rebuilt by a guy with a man-bun?

gomer and squeeky did.

and i know.... rebuilt is a bit of a stretch in that case.

 

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5 hours ago, eastern motors said:

It was touched on a little bit in the discussion on insurance/titles.  I bet all these videos get deleted right before they try to sell the boat.

I actually think the right idiot would be willing to pay a premium because they documented their repairs...

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1 hour ago, Will1073 said:

I actually think the right idiot would be willing to pay a premium because they documented their repairs...

The right idiot who does not care about getting insurance, and maybe just wants to sit at a slip or on a mooring and watch other boats go by. 

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1 minute ago, George Dewey said:

The right idiot who does not care about getting insurance, and maybe just wants to sit at a slip or on a mooring and watch other boats go by. 

Where are you guys that past repairs have any impact on getting insurance? Up here, you get a clean survey (involving at most a few hammer taps of that new laminate), then you go buy insurance. 

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31 minutes ago, andykane said:

Where are you guys that past repairs have any impact on getting insurance? Up here, you get a clean survey (involving at most a few hammer taps of that new laminate), then you go buy insurance. 

I'm in the process of getting insurance for an offshore capable boat right now. Working with a few brokers, all the applications have asked if the boat is a salvage. So anyone applying for insurance would have to disclose that, and I would expect the insurance company would want to know who did the repairs. Man bun or not, I would be surprised if the underwriters decide a couple of kids with no experience or credentials doing the repairs make them comfortable. I certainly could be wrong, and it would be good to hear from someone who actually sells insurance. Knowing the history of the boat I sure would not buy it. 

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Interesting - I double checked and none of the applications I've completed for various boats ever asked about that. I wonder if it's a hurricane belt thing? Around here a salvage boat isn't a common thing. Ultimately, the solution would be to document the repair, have the process/laminate schedule approved by a professional, and have the repair approved by a surveyor. They'd also want the surveyor to determine a market value so they're insured for the repaired value instead of their purchase price.

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40 minutes ago, andykane said:

Interesting - I double checked and none of the applications I've completed for various boats ever asked about that. I wonder if it's a hurricane belt thing? Around here a salvage boat isn't a common thing. Ultimately, the solution would be to document the repair, have the process/laminate schedule approved by a professional, and have the repair approved by a surveyor. They'd also want the surveyor to determine a market value so they're insured for the repaired value instead of their purchase price.

I would assume the repaired value would exceed purchase price.  Which means the insurance company is likely to insure at purchase price.

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1 hour ago, George Dewey said:

I'm in the process of getting insurance for an offshore capable boat right now. Working with a few brokers, all the applications have asked if the boat is a salvage. So anyone applying for insurance would have to disclose that, and I would expect the insurance company would want to know who did the repairs. Man bun or not, I would be surprised if the underwriters decide a couple of kids with no experience or credentials doing the repairs make them comfortable. I certainly could be wrong, and it would be good to hear from someone who actually sells insurance. Knowing the history of the boat I sure would not buy it. 

They( the insurance company) only want to know if it is salvage to ascertain the price that you paid for it as a salvage item. They will only insure it for your purchase price. $1,000,000 yacht bought for $3,500.00 salvage, whether you improve it or not is insured for $3,500.00

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2 things insurers ask,  “is it salvage and what did you pay for it?”. You may have just purchased a Hinckley 40 for cheap and want to insure it for $100,000+. They aren’t going to go for it even with a recent survey


I should clarify that if the boat is in good enough shape or less that 10 years old, insurers will insure the boat at market value.
 

The Fareast28R I bought as salvage is insured for $60,000 agreed upon value. It was dismasted and the carbon fiber rudder was damaged. I replaced both, however, the insurance company specifically told me that they would not cover a dismasting or rudder damage in the future , which I find odd. I just spent $9,000 out of my pocket for those...

My wooden cutter is insured for liability only. If I don’t file any claim for a year they will value the boat at the surveyed amount, which is around $50,000. I let the insurance expire by accident...now I have wait the year out and hopefully nothing happens to it or I screwed myself.

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22 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

The Fareast28R I bought as salvage is insured for $60,000 agreed upon value. It was dismasted and the carbon fiber rudder was damaged. I replaced both, however, the insurance company specifically told me that they would not cover a dismasting or rudder damage in the future , which I find odd. I just spent $9,000 out of my pocket for those...

Was it a used mast?

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 No,  new from Selden along with the standing and running rigging. 
 

Martin Robitaille from Fareast Canada got me set up. New tri radial sails and assym from a small loft, Eagle sails.

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2 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

The Fareast28R I bought as salvage is insured for $60,000 agreed upon value. It was dismasted and the carbon fiber rudder was damaged. I replaced both, however, the insurance company specifically told me that they would not cover a dismasting or rudder damage in the future , which I find odd. I just spent $9,000 out of my pocket for those...

That seems like pretty short money for a carbon mast... Or did you replace it with aluminum? 

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13 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

They( the insurance company) only want to know if it is salvage to ascertain the price that you paid for it as a salvage item. They will only insure it for your purchase price. $1,000,000 yacht bought for $3,500.00 salvage, whether you improve it or not is insured for $3,500.00

Up here in the GWN, the surveyor determines the market value of the boat.  That's what the boat is insured for, regardless of history.  If you can find an amenable surveyor you can insure anything for whatever value, as long as it isn't completely outrageous.

There are some insurance companies that are wise to this and have a list of acceptable surveyors.

I have insured two sailboats in the last 6 months, in no case did the insurance company ask what we paid for the boats.  They just wanted the surveys.

 

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The cutter was surveyed at $35,000 before I did a lot of restoration work on it. The value was based on what people in my area would pay for it. He said it would have been $50,000 if he were surveying it in Maine or Long Island Sound where there is a market for older wooden yachts.

1 hour ago, George Dewey said:

That seems like pretty short money for a carbon mast... Or did you replace it with aluminum? 

The rig is aluminum. Sorry for the confusion. Only the keel and rudder/tiller are carbon.
Fareast wanted to keep the costs down for the class and uses aluminum mast, boom and retractable bow sprit. 

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On 12/15/2020 at 2:27 AM, chuso007 said:

Very interesting episode about them walking the dogs in the park...

Call me when she finally wears a bikini.

Tube top this week. Close enough?

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4 hours ago, TJSoCal said:

Tube top this week. Close enough?

Haha. You know it's (almost) never enough...

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1 hour ago, chuso007 said:

Haha. You know it's (almost) never enough...

Hey, at least it was the chick in the tube top...

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On 12/28/2020 at 12:19 AM, andykane said:

Interesting - I double checked and none of the applications I've completed for various boats ever asked about that. I wonder if it's a hurricane belt thing? Around here a salvage boat isn't a common thing. Ultimately, the solution would be to document the repair, have the process/laminate schedule approved by a professional, and have the repair approved by a surveyor. They'd also want the surveyor to determine a market value so they're insured for the repaired value instead of their purchase price.

We've been asked the question everytime we've been quoted insurance:

Has the vessel proposed for insurance been subject to:-

(a) conversion? No (b) modification? No (c) amateur construction? No If ‘Yes’ give full details 

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So which part of the question picks up an amateur repair?

It's a fine line,  but it probably could be argued the the "construction" was professional.  (Professional does not have to mean good or even adequate).

Construction by one of the worlds biggest professional boat builders,  (major) repairs by amateurs.  Anything in this statement untrue?  

So that makes the answers, (a) No  (b) No  (c) No.  Fair probably not but untrue also probably not.  Poor question.  probably,  depending on whether the insurer really wants to know or is just covering themselves.

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8 hours ago, TUBBY said:

So which part of the question picks up an amateur repair?

It's a fine line,  but it probably could be argued the the "construction" was professional.  (Professional does not have to mean good or even adequate).

Construction by one of the worlds biggest professional boat builders,  (major) repairs by amateurs.  Anything in this statement untrue? 

You are so right! "Professional does not have to mean good or even adequate."  

Case in point - any of the later builds by Barry Carroll/Careless Marine.  The wet cores  - and the rebuilds - are legendary.  And ongoing to this day. 

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1 hour ago, GABA said:

You are so right! "Professional does not have to mean good or even adequate."  

Case in point - any of the later builds by Barry Carroll/Careless Marine.  The wet cores  - and the rebuilds - are legendary.  And ongoing to this day. 

Those cores didn't start out wet.

Almost every cored boat is poorly built - the penetrations are never sealed properly.  Yet manufacturers tout their excellence in construction.  

Does any builder using cored hulls seal the factory penetrations properly?  We know that Carroll, J, Beneteau, Jeanneau, Santa Cruz and Catalina didn't, and probably still don't to this day.  Built in obsolescence unless the owners take care of it.

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Here's a guy having to make the same repair on a similar boat.  It's being done "professionally" in that he's paying a repair yard to carry out the work.  Aside from working a whole lot cleaner it looks like exactly the same approach.  Owner seems to know what he's doing- including the trade-offs, etc.

https://youtu.be/C3RzxLW7t1U

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