Meat Wad

World Sailing and China's Leadership

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As we has seen the western media has turned on trumps lies and bullshit by turning him off. While I am against any form of censorship, Shanghighed sailor using SA to promote the virtues of the murderous CCP should be treated the same way. Now as we know scooter is a great believer in free speech so he is unlikely to ban him so the best way to shut him up is to have the CCP pull the plug on his access to SA. If he winds up being detained and 'reeducated' as a result then that is the price you pay for living in a shithole run by tyrants. 

So lets have some fun...

Badiucao cartoon of Xi Jinping and Winnie the Pooh - ABC News (Australian  Broadcasting Corporation)

Winnie the Pooh | Xi Jinping | Know Your Meme

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Here is the Doctor who they murdered for blowing the whistle on the origins of the China virus.

 

Chinese doctor's coronavirus death unites country in anger — Quartz

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And here is the Doctor who was disappeared after trying to tell the world there was a deadly virus emanating from Wuhan.

Whistleblowing doctor missing after criticizing Beijing's coronavirus  censorship | RSF

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I bet Shanghighed's screen goes blank just as he hears a knock on the door...

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On 11/12/2020 at 4:25 AM, coyotepup said:

Per capita figures for pollution but not for wind and solar production, hmm?  Talk about misinformation and damn lies.

Carbon emissions per capita is complete shit.  Top five countries in the world in that metric are the DRC, CAR, Chad, Eritrea, and Ethiopia.  Not a list worth being at the top of.  China is the world's top emitter of carbon dioxide.  Yes, it's lower per capita, because hundreds of millions of Chinese still live in dirt-ass poverty.  Here's a better metric: carbon emissions per dollar of GDP.  That tells you how dirty the economy is.  Do the math and China emits almost three times as much carbon per dollar of GDP than the US does.

Lies, damn lies & statistics. Michigan eh? Probably pissed off that they make a large percentage of their own cars these days then although GM is doing all right from the growth in Chinese wealth, as indeed is Apple to name but a couple.

At least they are trying to do something about pollution and the climate unlike your President who took the whole country out of the Climate Accord AND is still advocating in the dying days of his administration for additional use of coal in power generation.

Here's another statistic for you! How many miles of high speed rail does the USA have? ZERO. China currently has in excess of 28,000kms and ALL electric. The use of the railways fr mass transit saves tons of CO2 for a start.

Ever heard of glass houses and stones? 

In case you hadn't realised China is still on a development curve instead of stagnation. The changes in the 20 years I have been here have been staggering.

I am not saying USA is not a great country, I'm sure in many ways it is, but that gives no one the right to try and deny another nation the ambition to also be so.

Sorry, just winding you up but people need to look inside at the problems within their own borders first do they not before preaching to the world.

 

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I wouldn’t wind people up here.

It doesn’t make you or China look any better and you will not change our minds about your country or it’s leadership and National direction.

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On 11/4/2020 at 3:49 PM, LB 15 said:

Putting a Chinaman in charge of sailing is like putting an Arab in charge of downhill ski racing...

Well if you put an Arab in charge of downhill ski racing it would then make sense that there are so many ski piste/trails, clubs and races named after the Afghan province of Kandahar...

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10 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Here's another statistic for you! How many miles of high speed rail does the USA have? ZERO. China currently has in excess of 28,000kms and ALL electric. The use of the railways fr mass transit saves tons of CO2 for a start.

While no doubt rail is more efficient than cars or buses, the electricity needed to move those trains is still by created for the most part by burning of coal in China.  So the emissions footprint isn't as simple as some may think.

image.png.ad7be6bbe95cfee5cb4c6b275d84b1cc.png

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12 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

 but that gives no one the right to try and deny another nation the ambition to also be so.

Except for Hong Kong and Taiwan of course. They must forego their foolish dreams of Democracy. 

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15 hours ago, BayRacer said:

While no doubt rail is more efficient than cars or buses, the electricity needed to move those trains is still by created for the most part by burning of coal in China.  So the emissions footprint isn't as simple as some may think.

image.png.ad7be6bbe95cfee5cb4c6b275d84b1cc.png

I know it isn't pretty but they are trying to remove their dependence on fossil fuels.

I originally saw this documentary 15+ years ago so not new 

 

They had, in the one province, 5.5m+ of these projects with a target if i remember correctly of 15m in just that province so any talk that China isn''t doing anything is just BS, pure & simple.

Another one i came across is also quite interesting 

It takes time and FYI the 3 Gorges Dam alone replaced the need for 100 coal fired power stations to say nothing of the 100's of lives saved every year from reduced lower Yangtse Jiang flooding.

There are definitely more of what they call "blue sky days" than there used to be when i arrived here

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Even with institutionalized power like the Chinese Communist Party I think it important to try to distinguish between problematic leadership and the population of a country. I would say that especially when you have entrenched leadership that the population has little ability to change, that it becomes important to not demonize the population even if the leadership is truly despotic.

So by all means have a go at the CPC but try not to implicate the whole population, especially when the population is so diverse.

3_3_416.gif

Here is another country with pretty clearly diverse population.

image.png.a4062391ce27c2ac4fde5d5118eeb51f.png

 

If you are going to demonize a country for abusive behaviours this is one you could more legitimately conflate the population and the government given its population has significant influence on the choice of government leadership. A look at the number of democracies or popular governments overthrown by the latter country does not make it seem much of a voice for international democracy. But even there one must be cautious in damming a whole population. It is certainly interesting that after four years of first hand observation that 73 million voted to continue Trump's remarkable leadership but it is worth bearing in mind that 78 million fellow citizens voted him out so you would not want to group them all in one basket...

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The Chinese have also signed massive ($1 trillion +) deals for natural gas with Russia. Don't know if the pipelines are operational yet but the gas is mainly to allow replacement of coal generation of electricity. The country is obviously a dictatorship but that does not mean it is unresponsive to the concerns of the population. When Xi came into office the two big issues were environmental quality, in particular air pollution) and corruption. Considerable progress has been made on  both files. Certainly air quality is much improved from 10 years ago and corruption still happens but not as commonly as before when it was just a normal business practice. An interesting comparison can be made with India which is really the only country that can be compared to China in many fundamental ways. We were in Mumbai last year and you could chew the air. Paying bribes for even very trivial government services is still the norm.

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21 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

The Chinese have also signed massive ($1 trillion +) deals for natural gas with Russia. Don't know if the pipelines are operational yet but the gas is mainly to allow replacement of coal generation of electricity. The country is obviously a dictatorship but that does not mean it is unresponsive to the concerns of the population. When Xi came into office the two big issues were environmental quality, in particular air pollution) and corruption. Considerable progress has been made on  both files. Certainly air quality is much improved from 10 years ago and corruption still happens but not as commonly as before when it was just a normal business practice. An interesting comparison can be made with India which is really the only country that can be compared to China in many fundamental ways. We were in Mumbai last year and you could chew the air. Paying bribes for even very trivial government services is still the norm.

India and China have many similarities, not least that they both have diverse populations with, at the moment, an ethnic group dominating and suppressing others.

An important distinction is that India has relatively better rule of law....ask Jack Ma. He served for Xi Jingping like Mikhail Khodorkovsky did for Putin, as a useful tool to demonstrate the importance of business leaders subjugating themselves to state leaders. At least so far Ma merely had a haircut on his wealth and his liquidity plans delayed a bit. Mikhail spent a decade behind bars.

India’s no legal paragon but it has some semblance of rule of law ranking 69th and holding steady while China ranks 88th and falling.

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With respect to the rule of law it is important to consider the starting points for each country. India inherited a legal system from the Brits that was generally well-respected. China has never really had a real legal system other than what was imposed by old-style and new-style 'emperors'.

Interestingly, both countries have the same score on corruption (transparency.org) with China trending better and India trending worse. Their air pollution ratings are very similar but I found the air in major Chinese cities better than in Indian counterparts. The latter is totally subjective of course.

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This is all pretty far removed from the effects of a Chinese national as president of World Sailing.  I don't know the by-laws, but suspect that with multi-national representation on the exec board and the fact that the "serious" money is tied to the Olympics, doubt that his election will have much of an effect on the average sailor, or even change much of the already chaotic selection of Olympic disciplines/classes.  World Sailing and the various national bodies have been discussed/bashed at length around these parts, but outside of the racing rules updates, few sailors probably really care.

As far as China/India in general, yeah, would much rather do business in India.  Been selling to/visiting India in the B2B world for 15 years.  While there is discrimination, corruption, and significant pollution issues in both countries, India at least is fairly democratic, does not require you to "partner" with a local company (basically hand over your intellectual property and good luck with any NDA's the Chinese company might sign), and India does not seem to have global ambitions beyond border territories with China and Pakistan.  Oh, and you can criticize India government/leaders/bureaucracy publicly and not fear imprisonment the next trip you take to the country.  Try that now with China.  The new law may end up with more of a chilling effect on "off-shoring" there than any economic concerns.

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On 11/5/2020 at 9:03 PM, shanghaisailor said:

So that would be corrupt as in Trumpian politics would it, pardoning your mates? with 20,000 lies, untruths or exaggerations in his presidency? Not even close to where it was when Xi Jing Ping came to power and introduced the 'tigers & flies' campaign.

Of course there is no corruption in the USA, you call it lobbying. A USD5Bn a year industry. Are you trying to tell me those big corporates and organisation don't expect a pound of flesh for their investment? Who are you trying to kid. 

And the anti-corruption is working. I lost my passport and the UK gov took so long to issue a replacement i was outside the window allowed in China so I had to 'visit' the Police Station for my punishment. The first document put in front of me that the officers had neither asked for nor received any cash or other inducement to influence their decision. We all ended up laughing and I was told of course it wasn't my fault but please don't do it again 

Keep it coming though, I do love it when someone who knows 50% of fuck all about something spouts rubbish from a base of zero knowledge other than social media. So you know what people here are wishing for?

I have lived here for 20 years now and over time I have seen more smiles on people, health levels and longevity have increased, more millionaires than the whole of Europe and according to Forbes more billionaires than the USA. And they know how to deal with a virus.

Sure it has its problems but at least it doesn't have a president that in the last 24 hours has tried to disenfranchise millions of voters in what is supposed to be the greatest democracy in the world (what a joke) and the sad fact is close to half of the Americans like him enough to vote for him - sheesh. Sort out your own problems before criticising others.

And what happened in Beijing 30 odd years ago? Well you better do a Pontius Pilate job because the USA is far from squeaky clean when it comes using force on protestors OR people of colour. I wouldn't mind wagering that there have been far more people killed by authorities in the US than that night in Beijing.

 

‘But what about...?’ I guess to have your national body  reappoint you (and to ensure you don’t disappear) you have to toe the party line. 

You might want to have a long hard think about your allegiances. Your hero Winnie the Pooh is taking China towards a major conflict with the west, and when the shooting starts all you round eyes are going to get a vacation in a barb wire compound. I bet you scream like a little bitch when they throw you in the back of the van.

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59 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

‘But what about...?’ I guess to have your national body  reappoint you (and to ensure you don’t disappear) you have to toe the party line. 

You might want to have a long hard think about your allegiances. Your hero Winnie the Pooh is taking China towards a major conflict with the west, and when the shooting starts all you round eyes are going to get a vacation in a barb wire compound. I bet you scream like a little bitch when they throw you in the back of the van.

When the shooting starts any compliant foreigners will be feted and paraded to the media. They will be used as propaganda on how just the CCP is, that it is not their fault and is purely the fault of the west that wants to enslave China. In my years the race card was often used to cover for their own actions.

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Shanghied is working hard to make the cut.

 

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On 11/14/2020 at 5:04 AM, KC375 said:

Even with institutionalized power like the Chinese Communist Party I think it important to try to distinguish between problematic leadership and the population of a country. I would say that especially when you have entrenched leadership that the population has little ability to change, that it becomes important to not demonize the population even if the leadership is truly despotic.

So by all means have a go at the CPC but try not to implicate the whole population, especially when the population is so diverse.

3_3_416.gif

Here is another country with pretty clearly diverse population.

image.png.a4062391ce27c2ac4fde5d5118eeb51f.png

 

If you are going to demonize a country for abusive behaviours this is one you could more legitimately conflate the population and the government given its population has significant influence on the choice of government leadership. A look at the number of democracies or popular governments overthrown by the latter country does not make it seem much of a voice for international democracy. But even there one must be cautious in damming a whole population. It is certainly interesting that after four years of first hand observation that 73 million voted to continue Trump's remarkable leadership but it is worth bearing in mind that 78 million fellow citizens voted him out so you would not want to group them all in one basket...

Absolutely, I love the Chinese but dislike the CCP.

Also love Americans but dislike wealthy socialists tell others how to be.

 

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Watch it! I may need a liver or pancreas purloined from a Muslim  

 

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Keeping people convicted to death alive until somebody important and/or rich needed a transplant organ was standard procedure there since around the nineties. Only recently they expanded that program to ethnic or religious minorities.  

 

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Notice he only picks/engages the most absurd claims that borders on xenophobia because there's no defense for other things - I'm still waiting to hear what Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig did wrong except being Canadian and Huawei employee having a legal problem in Canada. What's the deal with the wolf warrior diplomats? Attacking Taiwanese' public health response? *shrug* 

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I believe in the One True China policy, and eagerly anticipate the Taipei government asserting it's rightful control over mainland China, and bringing rule of law and democracy to Chinese people.

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That would be such a wonderful scenario. The Chinese people are so nice and I believe if given the opportunity to demonstrate the will of the people to the world instead of the government’s, China would be a wonderful world partner instead of a feared entity 

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20 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

That would be such a wonderful scenario. The Chinese people are so nice and I believe if given the opportunity to demonstrate the will of the people to the world instead of the government’s, China would be a wonderful world partner instead of a feared entity 

Wouldn’t it be great if the Chinese people can be secure in their culture and accomplishments without the Great Leap Forward, cultural revolution or the growth at any cost Chinese communist autocracy?! I’d love to practice more calligraphy in traditional Chinese but they only teach it in Taiwan, Singapore and HK now 

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...The last bastions of freedom of expression for a long and proud heritage of people for now

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3 hours ago, Miffy said:

Wouldn’t it be great if the Chinese people can be secure in their culture and accomplishments without the Great Leap Forward, cultural revolution or the growth at any cost Chinese communist autocracy?! I’d love to practice more calligraphy in traditional Chinese but they only teach it in Taiwan, Singapore and HK now 

It is a stretch to support traditional Chinese in anything more than a historical sense. One of the things Mao got right (there were many important things he got wrong of course), was to bring about the use of simplified Chinese. The allowed for the great expansion of literacy in the country since you did not have to spend your whole life learning an incredibly complex way of writing.

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Just now, Bristol-Cruiser said:

It is a stretch to support traditional Chinese in anything more than a historical sense. One of the things Mao got right (there were many important things he got wrong of course), was to bring about the use of simplified Chinese. The allowed for the great expansion of literacy in the country since you did not have to spend your whole life learning an incredibly complex way of writing.

There’s no evidence simplified Chinese increased literacy. Literacy is not lower in Taiwan, HK or Singapore. And I’m literate in traditional and I didn’t spend a life time learning it when I started doing business in Taiwan. 

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So is there ever again going to be anything in this thread that actually relates to World Sailing, who is running it and what they hope to accomplish?

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How many Chinese sailors  are there?

When I bought my Fareast28R in ‘15, the sales rep for the company said that there were only about 1,000 sailors in China-mostly dinghy sailors for the Olympics.
 

That they may have increased numbers would be good, but how many in that nation participate at any world level?

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5 hours ago, TUBBY said:

What?  Talk about what it says at the top of the thread!

How long have you been here?

I think you might find that Dogwatch has been on the forums somewhat longer than you have Tubby, 30 times as many posts as oneself should tell you that

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4 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

How many Chinese sailors  are there?

When I bought my Fareast28R in ‘15, the sales rep for the company said that there were only about 1,000 sailors in China-mostly dinghy sailors for the Olympics.
 

That they may have increased numbers would be good, but how many in that nation participate at any world level?

Presumably you bought your FarEast 28 from an American dealer who is presumably an American who clearly knows 50% of fuck all about what is happening here in the Chinese sailing scene. It would be like trusting the American dealer for Volvo knowing exactly what was happening in the motor world in Sweden or the Apple salesman in Mongolia knowing how many people bought PCs in the USA only less so.

FYI, there are more than 1,000 'vocational' in China without the others.

It would not be in the Far East salesman's interest to tell you that the J-70 & J-80 are now both being built in China and in the FE28's home market over 150 J-80s have been sold or that many of the western boatbuilders such as Hanse (we sold the first Hanse, a 320 in China about 15 years ago) Beneteau, Bavaria, Jeanneau, and many others have growing markets here.

Sailing is a 100+ year old sport in the west. 100 years ago in China they were still in the first decade after the removal of the emperor. I have said this in threads before but for the past 3 years the China Club Challenge Match has been the largest one design keelboat regatta in ASIA with an over 40 boat average.

It is less than 20 years since the first non-government sailing club was launched. It has since been absorbed into another club, a club which has introduced 10s of thousands kids to sailing. 

Unlike your home sailing scene, where our sport is in such apparent design that a book was even written about the demise, sailing is growing in China.

Now can we stop the China bashing (or take it to political anarchy) and get back to the subject of the thread.

The amount of ill informed, uneducated comment on the growth of sailing here is so Trumpian. As those who (supposedly) care enough about our sport to actually join in a thread about any one aspect of it surely you should delight in rising numbers of participants, whatever the nation. That was my motivation when i started to help promote and grow sailing here in China.

So much fucking bullshit i sometimes wonder if some people don't go online until they have had a few wets down the pub.

It is like someone having an affair - if they invested as much energy in their marriage as they did in the affair they would probably have one of the best marriages going. 

If some of those who knock others spent as much energy on promoting the sport in their home country instead of knocking the efforts of those in other countries (based on zero facts) perhaps the sport wouldn't be in decline where they are.  

Speaking of that, i am judging a regatta at the weekend and assessing a marina the following week and it is 0230 here in China so goodnight!

     

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So WS did so well under the last President to the point of having to get a loan from the IOC to pay the bills - yet nearly half the MNA's voted for much of the old regime to remain untouched - sort of reminds me of FIFA, let's not rock the boat in case someone actually works out we're all corrupt. I for one have no problem with China showing some leadership in the sport, after all as Shanghai Sailor points out it is one country where sailing is actually building its numbers rather than being in decline like most of the western world. 

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5 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Presumably you bought your FarEast 28 from an American dealer who is presumably an American who clearly knows 50% of fuck all about what is happening here in the Chinese sailing scene. It would be like trusting the American dealer for Volvo knowing exactly what was happening in the motor world in Sweden or the Apple salesman in Mongolia knowing how many people bought PCs in the USA only less so.

FYI, there are more than 1,000 'vocational' in China without the others.

It would not be in the Far East salesman's interest to tell you that the J-70 & J-80 are now both being built in China and in the FE28's home market over 150 J-80s have been sold or that many of the western boatbuilders such as Hanse (we sold the first Hanse, a 320 in China about 15 years ago) Beneteau, Bavaria, Jeanneau, and many others have growing markets here.

Sailing is a 100+ year old sport in the west. 100 years ago in China they were still in the first decade after the removal of the emperor. I have said this in threads before but for the past 3 years the China Club Challenge Match has been the largest one design keelboat regatta in ASIA with an over 40 boat average.

It is less than 20 years since the first non-government sailing club was launched. It has since been absorbed into another club, a club which has introduced 10s of thousands kids to sailing. 

Unlike your home sailing scene, where our sport is in such apparent design that a book was even written about the demise, sailing is growing in China.

As those who (supposedly) care enough about our sport to actually join in a thread about any one aspect of it surely you should delight in rising numbers of participants, whatever the nation. That was my motivation when i started to help promote and grow sailing here in China.

So much fucking bullshit i sometimes wonder if some people don't go online until they have had a few wets down the pub.

It is like someone having an affair - if they invested as much energy in their marriage as they did in the affair they would probably have one of the best marriages going. 

If some of those who knock others spent as much energy on promoting the sport in their home country instead of knocking the efforts of those in other countries (based on zero facts) perhaps the sport wouldn't be in decline where they are.  

Speaking of that, i am judging a regatta at the weekend and assessing a marina the following week and it is 0230 here in China so goodnight!

     

Actually, I was quoting Sam Gong? from the Fareast website videos. I’ll see if I can find the direct video quote to clarify if needed. I was shocked at the small number of sailors that he quoted.

 I read the rest of the post, I don’t discount any of that information amend know the China Cup has been a success overall. 
 

However, how can you even write this without the slightest idea of the hypocrisy?!

5 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Now can we stop the China bashing (or take it to political anarchy) and get back to the subject of the thread.

The amount of ill informed, uneducated comment on the growth of sailing here is so Trumpian.

That is fucking stupid people talk right there Mister. 

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1 minute ago, Sail4beer said:

However, how can you even write this without the slightest idea of the hypocrisy?!

5 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Now can we stop the China bashing (or take it to political anarchy) and get back to the subject of the thread.

The amount of ill informed, uneducated comment on the growth of sailing here is so Trumpian.

That is fucking stupid people talk right there Mister. 

Diddentte you juste ansere youre owen questione?                                 :)

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Just now, Sail4beer said:

Ha!

I need my kicking wheel!!!

Notte siure you 'neede' it butte if ist source of comfortte, god speede Mr Beere                 :)

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So if 100,000 people now sail in China vs population instead of 1,000, I’d say there is a lot of room for growth.

Here’s the current percentage of the population of sailors at 100,000 out of 1.5 billion citizens if my math is even close

image.jpg

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I realley dointe no.................

Anny moocheres hearre no howe to starte up a Govfundme accountte?                            :)

 

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4 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Actually, I was quoting Sam Gong? from the Fareast website videos. I’ll see if I can find the direct video quote to clarify if needed. I was shocked at the small number of sailors that he quoted.

 I read the rest of the post, I don’t discount any of that information amend know the China Cup has been a success overall. 
 

However, how can you even write this without the slightest idea of the hypocrisy?!

That is fucking stupid people talk right there Mister. 

Well Sam Gong or whoever is hardly likely to admit to the numbers of sailors who are buying a competitors products now is he? And i thought you said in your previous post  "the sales rep for the company said"- so what was it?

To counter the fiction of Sam or the sales rep take a look at http://www.syclub.net/en/sycintroduction.html 

That s just one club and there are 3 or 4 in Shanghai with over 140 clubs around the country. Just 1,000 sailors in China my arse. 

China Cup is more regatta tourism with half the headline fleet of 40.7s being chartered from overseas. They don't run their own event, the first half dozen years or so was run by the RHKYC for them and the racing is now managed by Simon James from Thailand. I am pretty sure the event was cancelled this year because their customers could not get into China because of COVID restrictions while other events primarily for Chinese sailors went ahead virtually unaffected. 

As i mentioned before the China Club Challenge Match (Club Cup) has average 40+ over the last 3 years.

This weekend alone there were to be 2 regattas i know of (and from Chinese social media i know a good amount of club sailing going on too. A dinghy and keelboat youth regatta in Shenzhen and another in Shanghai. I was invited to judge both events but couldn't be in 2 places at once. Sadly the Shanghai event which had 12 entered teams  in FE28R has been cancelled due to the current COVID restrictions as a small hotspot was discovered in Shanghai. The Shenzhen event has 8 keelboats and over 20 Toppers entered - all teenagers.

To give an idea of China Cup's depth of knowledge/passion/care etc. At a presser this morning they were announcing their tie in with the now HK owned WMRT and stated WMRT was one of World Sailing's THREE Special Events, yep three. That's how little they know. I  never claimed it was perfect here but at least they don't spend so much of their energy knocking what is happening in other countries, They do tend to get on and do it..

Anyway, must dash, i am doing a bit of coaching to a class of 30 from a local foreign language school this afternoon and still have a bit of prep to do.

Only 1,000 sailors in China bwahaha!!

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3 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

So if 100,000 people now sail in China vs population instead of 1,000, I’d say there is a lot of room for growth.

Here’s the current percentage of the population of sailors at 100,000 out of 1.5 billion citizens if my math is even close

image.jpg

You are right on this one sail4beer which is why we are trying to grow our sport here instead of knocking other people's efforts.

The % growth is astronomical and we are attempting to tap into the (growing) disposable income, (growing) disposable leisure time, (growing) interest in the sea and maritime heritage and (growing) interest in the environment.

It has been (so far) a long uphill slog and no doubt that slog will continue long after i am in the ground and very smelly. However, as someone who has had so much from our sport in the 50+ years i have been a (small) part of it it is good to put something back in a meaningful manner.

I've enjoyed our 'discussions' and apologies if sometimes my passion for our sport and what is happening here boils over but sailing - and boating in general - is gaining traction all the time and is finally getting noticed by the hierarchy here. EG the (either CEO or COO) of China Sport Lottery will be attending the Shenzhen event - now that's a first for sailing.

Better put your phone on charge by the way ;);)  

Fair winds man!

See ya on the water

SS

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On 11/17/2020 at 12:50 PM, Bristol-Cruiser said:

It is a stretch to support traditional Chinese in anything more than a historical sense. One of the things Mao got right (there were many important things he got wrong of course), was to bring about the use of simplified Chinese. The allowed for the great expansion of literacy in the country since you did not have to spend your whole life learning an incredibly complex way of writing.

Indeed and XI has reduced it further to only a single Han character...

 

 

China Flag Dollar Currency Sign - Business 3d Chinese Symbol - China,  Beijing Or Asia Concept Stock Illustration - Illustration of concept,  currency: 134558238

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10 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Presumably you bought your FarEast 28 from an American dealer who is presumably an American who clearly knows 50% of fuck all about what is happening here in the Chinese sailing scene. It would be like trusting the American dealer for Volvo knowing exactly what was happening in the motor world in Sweden or the Apple salesman in Mongolia knowing how many people bought PCs in the USA only less so.

FYI, there are more than 1,000 'vocational' in China without the others.

It would not be in the Far East salesman's interest to tell you that the J-70 & J-80 are now both being built in China and in the FE28's home market over 150 J-80s have been sold or that many of the western boatbuilders such as Hanse (we sold the first Hanse, a 320 in China about 15 years ago) Beneteau, Bavaria, Jeanneau, and many others have growing markets here.

Sailing is a 100+ year old sport in the west. 100 years ago in China they were still in the first decade after the removal of the emperor. I have said this in threads before but for the past 3 years the China Club Challenge Match has been the largest one design keelboat regatta in ASIA with an over 40 boat average.

It is less than 20 years since the first non-government sailing club was launched. It has since been absorbed into another club, a club which has introduced 10s of thousands kids to sailing. 

Unlike your home sailing scene, where our sport is in such apparent design that a book was even written about the demise, sailing is growing in China.

Now can we stop the China bashing (or take it to political anarchy) and get back to the subject of the thread.

The amount of ill informed, uneducated comment on the growth of sailing here is so Trumpian. As those who (supposedly) care enough about our sport to actually join in a thread about any one aspect of it surely you should delight in rising numbers of participants, whatever the nation. That was my motivation when i started to help promote and grow sailing here in China.

So much fucking bullshit i sometimes wonder if some people don't go online until they have had a few wets down the pub.

It is like someone having an affair - if they invested as much energy in their marriage as they did in the affair they would probably have one of the best marriages going. 

If some of those who knock others spent as much energy on promoting the sport in their home country instead of knocking the efforts of those in other countries (based on zero facts) perhaps the sport wouldn't be in decline where they are.  

Speaking of that, i am judging a regatta at the weekend and assessing a marina the following week and it is 0230 here in China so goodnight!

     

A quick summary of the latest release from the CCP department of information.

Sailing is in decline in the west.

Sailing is growing in China.

Western sailor is ignorant.

Western sailor drink alcohol before using internet.

Western sailor spend more time with mistress than wife.

To shitfight on internet, Chinese sailor must stay up very late.

 

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18 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

I think you might find that Dogwatch has been on the forums somewhat longer than you have Tubby, 30 times as many posts as oneself should tell you that

Hmm,  must have missed that I was typing with my tongue in my cheek.

And yes I did notice how many posts Dogwatch had made in comparison to my limited number,  but a quick check will show that while he has been here longer than I have the difference is not that great.  I tend to only read those threads which prick an interest and only comment where something amuses me of occasionally where I think I might have something of value to add.  And being a bear of very little brain,  to misquote Pooh, that keeps my post level low.

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9 hours ago, LB 15 said:

A quick summary of the latest release from the CCP department of information.

Sailing is in decline in the west.

Sailing is growing in China.

Western sailor is ignorant.

Western sailor drink alcohol before using internet.

Western sailor spend more time with mistress than wife.

To shitfight on internet, Chinese sailor must stay up very late.

 

You,sir, are correct.

Lets hope our Eastern representative stays focused on reporting China’s world advances and not step into the abyss like this dumbass and a few others like her.

So here’s today’s news. Might not be available in China, though 

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There are a lot of countries that have handled SARS-CoV-2 poorly.

But it isn't an entire accident that those who handled it well neighbor the PRC, distrusts the CCP and their public health authorities have experience with SARS and the stonewalling.

The ROC government tried to warn the WHO, it activated its own internal processes and started suspending/monitoring returning passengers from the PRC - Vietnam did something similar. 

But the CCP wolf warriors will chime in to mock Boris Johnson & Donald Trump for killing hundreds of thousands of their own people from their vantage point, everything is a "power competition" and imagined humiliation nonsense. 

If the Wuhan local public authorities took it seriously from the get go, if the CCP central government not delay and obfuscate - the challenge would have been easier to address. Who knows - it sure seems like the PRC suspended domestic travel to stop the spread but publicly attacked those that suspended flights from the PRC. And the "resident locals" with access to foreign contacts never gave any heads up to their foreign contacts. Sure seems like good friends and partners. 

True friends. 

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And they are now using trade to punish Australia simply because our Prime Minister called for an inquiry into the origin of the virus- you know to stop it happening again. 

Strange behaviour given that he never mentioned China. 

But I will. Hey Xi if you are reading this...all the power in the world ain’t gunna make that little Asian Dick any bigger. I guess that is why Shanghaied feels so comfortable living there. He fits in if you get my drift.

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https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/if-you-make-china-the-enemy-china-will-be-the-enemy-beijing-s-fresh-threat-to-australia-20201118-p56fqs.html

 

look at the wolf warrior list of “grievances” - a lot of which essentially say holding Australian gov responsible for free press and shocking freedom of information. 
 

It’d be surprising if it wasn’t so pathetically predictable - generation of dudes being the only baby in 4-2-1 households thinking the world operates the same way as it does with 4 grandparents fawning over them. 

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14 hours ago, LB 15 said:

But I will. Hey Xi if you are reading this...all the power in the world ain’t gunna make that little Asian Dick any bigger. 

He woudentte be readeng hearre, hese powere boatere, allwayes donig pokere runs, " 扑克跑 " (Pūkè pǎo) withisse neihbore Kim and varriouse millitarey types.

My+Way+Lillian+Cooledge.jpg
 
:)
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On 11/18/2020 at 8:45 PM, TUBBY said:

Hmm,  must have missed that I was typing with my tongue in my cheek.

And yes I did notice how many posts Dogwatch had made in comparison to my limited number,  but a quick check will show that while he has been here longer than I have the difference is not that great.  I tend to only read those threads which prick an interest and only comment where something amuses me of occasionally where I think I might have something of value to add.  And being a bear of very little brain,  to misquote Pooh, that keeps my post level low.

Hey Tubby. if you tease, expect to be teased back and with 400+ posts you are hardly a beginner :-)

Dogwatch usually has many sensible and accurate things to say.

Like you I only tend to post on threads that either pique my interest or i have some actual factual information to interject. Perhaps I get a little too intense in my responses to the BS about China. Having lived here for the past 20 years i can see through the factless BS written by some whose entire "knowledge base" is based on somewhat less than 100% accurate or verified information quite easily.  

Don't sell yourself short with the inference of low brain power and besides, aren't these forums supposed to be harmless fun?

Stay well & see ya on the water

SS

 

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7 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

aren't these forums supposed to be harmless fun?

Of course! 

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9 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

, aren't these forums supposed to be harmless fun?

 

Are these harmless?

 

beautiful-slim-body-of-woman-picture-id5

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On 11/13/2020 at 1:40 AM, shanghaisailor said:

Ever heard of glass houses and stones? 

In case you hadn't realised China is still on a development curve instead of stagnation. The changes in the 20 years I have been here have been staggering.

I am not saying USA is not a great country, I'm sure in many ways it is, but that gives no one the right to try and deny another nation the ambition to also be so.

Sorry, just winding you up but people need to look inside at the problems within their own borders first do they not before preaching to the world.

 

I think that the heightened ill feelings between China and the USA might partially stem from how much the two nations have in common.  This leads to a sense of competition and mutual fear.  This is perhaps heightened by two very different political and legal systems

They have both become economic super powers. Both countries have a semi-genetic level of energy and entrepreneurship. One always sensed this about China even when it was hidden behind a communist wall. When I visited Hong Kong 25 years ago, I realized even then that the Chinese were among one of the most entrepreneurial and hard working cultures that I have ever seen outside of the USA. When China was allowed to join the WTO,  I knew they were going to be a growing part of the global economy.

I think it is no coincidence that the majority of global technology champions have emerged from either the USA or China.  

Political; process USA:  Yes our popular democracy results sometimes in populist leaders who do strange things. But over the course of our history we have found many great leaders through the ballot box. We also allow our elected officials to bribe us with our own money

The Chinese one Party systems rewards leaders who are very good at building power and support.  This can lead to talented leaders but also removes the influence of the people.

On balance, over the long term, I believe democracy produces better results. But it has its flaws. Our primary process is severely flawed.  I never think we are choosing between the best two possible candidates out there.

Rule of Law: Here is where I think the USA trumps China.  We live under a very fair rule of law which is always evolving to stay current.  Chinese rule of law is often unfair and very slow to adapt. The biggest grudge that US companies have with China is that IP is so hard to enforce.

My bottom line.  Level the playing field for fair trade but keep trade growing. Nothing builds global peace and understanding as well as trade.

 

 

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11 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I think that the heightened ill feelings between China and the USA might partially stem from how much the two nations have in common.  This leads to a sense of competition and mutual fear.  This is perhaps heightened by two very different political and legal systems

They have both become economic super powers. Both countries have a semi-genetic level of energy and entrepreneurship. One always sensed this about China even when it was hidden behind a communist wall. When I visited Hong Kong 25 years ago, I realized even then that the Chinese were among one of the most entrepreneurial and hard working cultures that I have ever seen outside of the USA. When China was allowed to join the WTO,  I knew they were going to be a growing part of the global economy.

I think it is no coincidence that the majority of global technology champions have emerged from either the USA or China.  

Political; process USA:  Yes our popular democracy results sometimes in populist leaders who do strange things. But over the course of our history we have found many great leaders through the ballot box. We also allow our elected officials to bribe us with our own money

The Chinese one Party systems rewards leaders who are very good at building power and support.  This can lead to talented leaders but also removes the influence of the people.

On balance, over the long term, I believe democracy produces better results. But it has its flaws. Our primary process is severely flawed.  I never think we are choosing between the best two possible candidates out there.

Rule of Law: Here is where I think the USA trumps China.  We live under a very fair rule of law which is always evolving to stay current.  Chinese rule of law is often unfair and very slow to adapt. The biggest grudge that US companies have with China is that IP is so hard to enforce.

My bottom line.  Level the playing field for fair trade but keep trade growing. Nothing builds global peace and understanding as well as trade.

 

 

China wanting a level playing field for trade? :lol:

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11 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I think that the heightened ill feelings between China and the USA might partially stem from how much the two nations have in common.  This leads to a sense of competition and mutual fear.  This is perhaps heightened by two very different political and legal systems

They have both become economic super powers. Both countries have a semi-genetic level of energy and entrepreneurship. One always sensed this about China even when it was hidden behind a communist wall. When I visited Hong Kong 25 years ago, I realized even then that the Chinese were among one of the most entrepreneurial and hard working cultures that I have ever seen outside of the USA. When China was allowed to join the WTO,  I knew they were going to be a growing part of the global economy.

I think it is no coincidence that the majority of global technology champions have emerged from either the USA or China.  

Political; process USA:  Yes our popular democracy results sometimes in populist leaders who do strange things. But over the course of our history we have found many great leaders through the ballot box. We also allow our elected officials to bribe us with our own money

The Chinese one Party systems rewards leaders who are very good at building power and support.  This can lead to talented leaders but also removes the influence of the people.

On balance, over the long term, I believe democracy produces better results. But it has its flaws. Our primary process is severely flawed.  I never think we are choosing between the best two possible candidates out there.

Rule of Law: Here is where I think the USA trumps China.  We live under a very fair rule of law which is always evolving to stay current.  Chinese rule of law is often unfair and very slow to adapt. The biggest grudge that US companies have with China is that IP is so hard to enforce.

My bottom line.  Level the playing field for fair trade but keep trade growing. Nothing builds global peace and understanding as well as trade.

 

 

What rainbow dust have you been smoking?

The only thing they have in common is neither have a mechanism to stop a narcissist, evil cunt from becoming president.

At least the US have one to remove such a person if the unthinkable ever happened. 

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12 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

 

  Level the playing field for fair trade but keep trade growing. Nothing builds global peace and understanding as well as trade.

 

Study your history. And I don't mean the fairy dust history they teach in schools and universities these days.

That was said of the protagonists in both WW1 and WW2.

Its a patently false premise

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5 hours ago, Rambler said:

Study your history. And I don't mean the fairy dust history they teach in schools and universities these days.

That was said of the protagonists in both WW1 and WW2.

Its a patently false premise

Sorry guys. I know very little about international affairs so I should probably not have contributed.    But I liked China and the Chinese when I visited a long time ago. I like Shanghai sailors contributions.   I can help feel that most people get on if they were allowed to get to know each other.  I will try and smoke less fairy dust.

I admire how China (and Australia) snuffed out CV19.  I am a doctor and I am incredibly distressed at how badly we have handled CV19.

Back on topic.  WS has been mismanaged. It needed to be resolved. To quote the incoming President

In the course of my candidacy, a lot of people have been asking me why I'm running for the position in such a difficult time. What is your plan? What is your main job if you win the election?

First of all, our most important responsibility is to solve the enormous financial situation that World Sailing is facing. We look forward to the Olympic Games next year in Tokyo as scheduled. Otherwise, World Sailing will be in a challenging time.

We must effectively manage finances, control unreasonable expenses, increase revenue, and ensure a balance of income and expenditure.

We have to find the causes of this economic crisis and come up with solutions to make sure that we can operate safely in the future.

I recommend reading all of his acceptance speech which is here https://www.sailing.org/news/90524.php#.X7kOSLN7m00

I think he won because

(1) He promises to improve governance and management. More consultation with MNAs and a more streamlined board with defined responsibilities. He promised more strategic planning

(2) He addressed the elephant in the room.....the finances are dire and need fixing fast.

(3) He reached out to the smaller nations and asked what can we do to support the growth of sailing outside the current dominance.

(4) He emphasized the value of sailing and pulling together as a team

I have no idea if he is a great leader but I think he defined a good agenda

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2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

 

I have no idea if he is a great leader but I think he defined a good agenda

Give him a chance can't be much worse. World sailing is irrelevant to most sailors

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10 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Sorry guys. I know very little about international affairs so I should probably not have contributed.    But I liked China and the Chinese when I visited a long time ago. I like Shanghai sailors contributions.   I can help feel that most people get on if they were allowed to get to know each other.  I will try and smoke less fairy dust.

I admire how China (and Australia) snuffed out CV19.  I am a doctor and I am incredibly distressed at how badly we have handled CV19.

Back on topic.  WS has been mismanaged. It needed to be resolved. To quote the incoming President

In the course of my candidacy, a lot of people have been asking me why I'm running for the position in such a difficult time. What is your plan? What is your main job if you win the election?

First of all, our most important responsibility is to solve the enormous financial situation that World Sailing is facing. We look forward to the Olympic Games next year in Tokyo as scheduled. Otherwise, World Sailing will be in a challenging time.

We must effectively manage finances, control unreasonable expenses, increase revenue, and ensure a balance of income and expenditure.

We have to find the causes of this economic crisis and come up with solutions to make sure that we can operate safely in the future.

I recommend reading all of his acceptance speech which is here https://www.sailing.org/news/90524.php#.X7kOSLN7m00

I think he won because

(1) He promises to improve governance and management. More consultation with MNAs and a more streamlined board with defined responsibilities. He promised more strategic planning

(2) He addressed the elephant in the room.....the finances are dire and need fixing fast.

(3) He reached out to the smaller nations and asked what can we do to support the growth of sailing outside the current dominance.

(4) He emphasized the value of sailing and pulling together as a team

I have no idea if he is a great leader but I think he defined a good agenda

No one ever accused the Chinese of not strategic planning...

He will do what is best for China. That is why they have paid to put him there.

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57 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

No one ever accused the Chinese of not strategic planning...

He will do what is best for China. That is why they have paid to put him there.

It is all part of the Fight, Fight, Talk, Talk behaviour. They are happy to talk, help out with WS and so on. All to try and make others trust them. All the time their basic desire for domination is never forgotten. Just hidden behind a crocodile smile and promise of help for the needy, waiting for the time talking is no longer needed.

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

No one ever accused the Chinese of not strategic planning...

He will do what is best for China. That is why they have paid to put him there.

Great.

What is best for China? In sailing?

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22 hours ago, Gissie said:

China wanting a level playing field for trade? :lol:

Yeah, they are a 'developing nation' remember <_<

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1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

Great.

What is best for China? In sailing?

Face. The chance to show they are the hero's of the time, even saving sports like sailing. All good PR to cover the real aim of Xi.

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20 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I have no idea if he is a great leader but I think he defined a good agenda

The agenda is just motherhood and apple pie. We shall see what he delivers. It cannot be said that his predecessor set the bar high so he's got that going for him. What I was hoping for was to get some sense of what differentiates him but I'm not so far getting that.

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8 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Great.

What is best for China? In sailing?

What is best for China in sailing is the same as in any country. Making sailing fun and attracting the youth! Perhaps we make sailing too regimented for youngsters when they, like grown ups like fun during their leisure (or sporting) time.

I have just returned to my hotel room (on a cruise ship docked in concrete would you believe) from the prize giving of the inaugural China Club Challenge Match Youth Division sailed in Toppers (where China has a world champion by the way) and J-70s having spent the weekend on the water umpiring (more accurately On the Water Judging under Appendix Q)

It was sailed off Shekou, Shenzhen and with just a light spot in the middle of day two mother nature cooperated although on Day 1 a couple of the teams found the J-70's spinnaker a bit of a handful - BUT nobody complained

At one point in one of todays races there were 4 J-70s line abreast and the banter, teasing and chuckles going on between the boats showed that they were more than competing, they were clearly having fun while they did it. You would have thought they were at a party such was the chatter coming off the boats. Once ashore the smiles and happy expressions were everywhere and acceptance of how to play the game, even from those for whom the judges decisions went against them, was refreshing. No "Little Prince" syndrome to be seen. 

Sailing is growing quite nicely here.

See ya on the water

SS 

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I think the we make a mistake when we ascribe just one motive to this Chinese guy taking this position. I can see whole bunch of motivations including (in no particular order): 

  • helping the  Chinese improve their standing in Olympic sailing; the Chinese take the Olympics very seriously
  • increasing the number of sailors in China (partly tied to above)
  • helping the Chinese sailboat industry; wanna bet that Far East xx? end up as Olympic classes; once a boat is an Olympic class sales improve through the sailing world
  • expanding sailing in non-sailing nations - with a Chinese face on it, cheap boats, coaches/trainers provided 
  • in general provide better governance for a sport that needs it

Like most things the Chinese do it is a combination of self-interest with even a bit of altruism thrown in for good measure.

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