Meat Wad

World Sailing and China's Leadership

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4 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

 The concept of "Face" is not limited to Chinese, it is just that in China the concept is more formal and perhaps remembered longer.
 

That is the point. It is much more formal and remembered for much longer. You spout shit like you are the only foreigner that truly understands the people. The arrogance of the expat who knows it all, lived in a gated community for most of your time I would guess. 

I have no problem with most Chinese, much like I have no problem with most Americans, English or Aussies. If I did I wouldn't have lived there so many years. Doesn't mean I always agree with their governments or leaders, I can see there is a difference. Especially with Xi.

As for the new leader of WS, a simple fact is he would never get the position without the support and agreement of the Chinese government. To believe otherwise is just childish. To think he is there to not promote the benevolence of the Chinese people is also childish.

Whether it is good for sailing in the long term is still to be found out. However it is reminiscent of the advice that when you sup with the devil it is prudent to use a long spoon.

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Shang - the Chinese have you over a barrel.  Those cunts will be the end of democratic society.  If we let them. And you choose to ignore that they are interested in one thing, and one thing only. World domination.

I'll be fucked if I will let my country be run by Xi. And Xi, if you are following , fuck off.

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16 hours ago, Gissie said:

That is the point. It is much more formal and remembered for much longer. You spout shit like you are the only foreigner that truly understands the people. The arrogance of the expat who knows it all, lived in a gated community for most of your time I would guess. 

I have no problem with most Chinese, much like I have no problem with most Americans, English or Aussies. If I did I wouldn't have lived there so many years. Doesn't mean I always agree with their governments or leaders, I can see there is a difference. Especially with Xi.

As for the new leader of WS, a simple fact is he would never get the position without the support and agreement of the Chinese government. To believe otherwise is just childish. To think he is there to not promote the benevolence of the Chinese people is also childish.

Whether it is good for sailing in the long term is still to be found out. However it is reminiscent of the advice that when you sup with the devil it is prudent to use a long spoon.

Well you clearly don't understand the average Chinese. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but it makes me smile. No that is wrong, it makes me belly laugh when automatically an informed comment is met with "You spout shit"- fucks sake, grow up.

Your "guess" is completely wrong. In the 20 years+ I have lived here I have never lived in a "gated compound". That concept of separating laowei from the locals was already largely gone when when I arrived. Compounds are indeed mainly "gated" as you say but that is the same for locals and laowei and is an additional measure for the security of the residents. 

19 years ago I founded the first non-government sailing club in China,  17 years ago i brought the first privately owned racing yacht to China, 13 years it was joined by another one. For the past 15 years i have been involved with the oldest sailing regatta on China which for the last 3 years has been the largest one design keelboat regatta in Asia and have been involved with the Chinese involvement with the Volvo Ocean Race for the last 3 editions.

I met my CHINESE wife 16 years ago and most of my friends are Chinese.

I too have little problems with very few people, whatever their nationality or race and like you i don't always agree with the actions, rulings or regulations. For example the multiple meetings i have had with officials trying to explain that, for example a spy is much more likely to step off a plane at Pudong Airport than row ashore in a rubber boat from a sailing yacht. We are slowly  getting there with regattas like Round Hainan (running currently) or the one up north which goes from Qingdao to Russia, Japan and back to Qingdao without being boarded by multiple agencies like some of the returnees from the Newport to Ensinada un the USA.

True, a Chinese serving in a position in an international body like WS would have had to have boxes ticked by (probably) the likes of The Sports Bureau but lets see if he follows through with his election pledge and first statement as president. As a sailor and not a politician that is all I am interested in. His nationality and whether he is backed by government or not should not matter to us sailors if he actually sorts out the situation in our sport.

I am surprised that you reduced your argument to a thinly veiled accusation of childishness. He has 8 years experience as an ISAF/World Sailing Vice President and much longer as the Secretary General of the Chinese Yachting Association and whatever one thinks of him was in the hot seat when China won its first Sailing Gold Medal in 2008.

Let's see if he is effective and follows through. If in 4 years time he has achieved none of the promises or statements of intent then he deserves all he gets.

15 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

Shang - the Chinese have you over a barrel.  Those cunts will be the end of democratic society.  If we let them. And you choose to ignore that they are interested in one thing, and one thing only. World domination.

I'll be fucked if I will let my country be run by Xi. And Xi, if you are following , fuck off.

And what barrel would that be Dark Cloud???? Fuckwit!! I haven't got into a conversation about world domination or any such thing - it is those who respond to my posts that seem paranoid about that.

I read a very interesting article in Time Magazine many years ago where the reporter was interviewing a fairly senior Chinese official. It was surprisingly open (back then my knowledge of China was about the depth of some of the posters in this thread). The reporter asked how the official could justify the lack of democracy in China. THe official responded with that when he was young the people in his street elected him to the local committee (the Chinese seem to love committees). He worked hard, kept his nose clean and when there was a vacancy in the district committee his peers selected him by vote to serve on their behalf and that process happened all the way up the tree. (It was about the time Bush Jnr entered the White House on the minority of the popular vote). No politician works entirely without self interest whether for advancement or avoidance of loss. The ultimate example of this must surely be the one who is about to leave the White House.

Anyway, enough is enough. I just want to sail and help develop sailing where i sail and it is developing quite nicely here.

So - goodbye, and thanks for all the fish!!

I'm out!!

You are all welcome to come and see for yourselves once the COVID-19 has been defeated.

SS

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2 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Well you clearly don't understand the average Chinese. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but it makes me smile. No that is wrong, it makes me belly laugh when automatically an informed comment is met with "You spout shit"- fucks sake, grow up.

Your "guess" is completely wrong. In the 20 years+ I have lived here I have never lived in a "gated compound". That concept of separating laowei from the locals was already largely gone when when I arrived. Compounds are indeed mainly "gated" as you say but that is the same for locals and laowei and is an additional measure for the security of the residents. 

19 years ago I founded the first non-government sailing club in China,  17 years ago i brought the first privately owned racing yacht to China, 13 years it was joined by another one. For the past 15 years i have been involved with the oldest sailing regatta on China which for the last 3 years has been the largest one design keelboat regatta in Asia and have been involved with the Chinese involvement with the Volvo Ocean Race for the last 3 editions.

I met my CHINESE wife 16 years ago and most of my friends are Chinese.

I too have little problems with very few people, whatever their nationality or race and like you i don't always agree with the actions, rulings or regulations. For example the multiple meetings i have had with officials trying to explain that, for example a spy is much more likely to step off a plane at Pudong Airport than row ashore in a rubber boat from a sailing yacht. We are slowly  getting there with regattas like Round Hainan (running currently) or the one up north which goes from Qingdao to Russia, Japan and back to Qingdao without being boarded by multiple agencies like some of the returnees from the Newport to Ensinada un the USA.

True, a Chinese serving in a position in an international body like WS would have had to have boxes ticked by (probably) the likes of The Sports Bureau but lets see if he follows through with his election pledge and first statement as president. As a sailor and not a politician that is all I am interested in. His nationality and whether he is backed by government or not should not matter to us sailors if he actually sorts out the situation in our sport.

I am surprised that you reduced your argument to a thinly veiled accusation of childishness. He has 8 years experience as an ISAF/World Sailing Vice President and much longer as the Secretary General of the Chinese Yachting Association and whatever one thinks of him was in the hot seat when China won its first Sailing Gold Medal in 2008.

Let's see if he is effective and follows through. If in 4 years time he has achieved none of the promises or statements of intent then he deserves all he gets.

And what barrel would that be Dark Cloud???? Fuckwit!! I haven't got into a conversation about world domination or any such thing - it is those who respond to my posts that seem paranoid about that.

I read a very interesting article in Time Magazine many years ago where the reporter was interviewing a fairly senior Chinese official. It was surprisingly open (back then my knowledge of China was about the depth of some of the posters in this thread). The reporter asked how the official could justify the lack of democracy in China. THe official responded with that when he was young the people in his street elected him to the local committee (the Chinese seem to love committees). He worked hard, kept his nose clean and when there was a vacancy in the district committee his peers selected him by vote to serve on their behalf and that process happened all the way up the tree. (It was about the time Bush Jnr entered the White House on the minority of the popular vote). No politician works entirely without self interest whether for advancement or avoidance of loss. The ultimate example of this must surely be the one who is about to leave the White House.

Anyway, enough is enough. I just want to sail and help develop sailing where i sail and it is developing quite nicely here.

So - goodbye, and thanks for all the fish!!

I'm out!!

You are all welcome to come and see for yourselves once the COVID-19 has been defeated.

SS

Thanks for your reply - good luck (or just have fun) with your sailing.

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On 11/29/2020 at 2:12 PM, shanghaisailor said:

Perhaps because of the clear anti-China rhetoric (many examples up thread if you look) or condescending talk how the west can do it better.

The Party will be most pleased. 

Next time you see old Xi the Pooh, can you ask him how you say ‘Hypocritical cunt’ in Mandarin. I think it is  虚伪的婊子

Fuck China.

773E31ED-A84D-42E2-8EE2-6813BCE61914.jpeg

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2 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Well you clearly don't understand the average Chinese. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but it makes me smile. No that is wrong, it makes me belly laugh when automatically an informed comment is met with "You spout shit"- fucks sake, grow up.

Your "guess" is completely wrong. In the 20 years+ I have lived here I have never lived in a "gated compound". That concept of separating laowei from the locals was already largely gone when when I arrived. Compounds are indeed mainly "gated" as you say but that is the same for locals and laowei and is an additional measure for the security of the residents. 

19 years ago I founded the first non-government sailing club in China,  17 years ago i brought the first privately owned racing yacht to China, 13 years it was joined by another one. For the past 15 years i have been involved with the oldest sailing regatta on China which for the last 3 years has been the largest one design keelboat regatta in Asia and have been involved with the Chinese involvement with the Volvo Ocean Race for the last 3 editions.

I met my CHINESE wife 16 years ago and most of my friends are Chinese.

I too have little problems with very few people, whatever their nationality or race and like you i don't always agree with the actions, rulings or regulations. For example the multiple meetings i have had with officials trying to explain that, for example a spy is much more likely to step off a plane at Pudong Airport than row ashore in a rubber boat from a sailing yacht. We are slowly  getting there with regattas like Round Hainan (running currently) or the one up north which goes from Qingdao to Russia, Japan and back to Qingdao without being boarded by multiple agencies like some of the returnees from the Newport to Ensinada un the USA.

True, a Chinese serving in a position in an international body like WS would have had to have boxes ticked by (probably) the likes of The Sports Bureau but lets see if he follows through with his election pledge and first statement as president. As a sailor and not a politician that is all I am interested in. His nationality and whether he is backed by government or not should not matter to us sailors if he actually sorts out the situation in our sport.

I am surprised that you reduced your argument to a thinly veiled accusation of childishness. He has 8 years experience as an ISAF/World Sailing Vice President and much longer as the Secretary General of the Chinese Yachting Association and whatever one thinks of him was in the hot seat when China won its first Sailing Gold Medal in 2008.

Let's see if he is effective and follows through. If in 4 years time he has achieved none of the promises or statements of intent then he deserves all he gets.

And what barrel would that be Dark Cloud???? Fuckwit!! I haven't got into a conversation about world domination or any such thing - it is those who respond to my posts that seem paranoid about that.

I read a very interesting article in Time Magazine many years ago where the reporter was interviewing a fairly senior Chinese official. It was surprisingly open (back then my knowledge of China was about the depth of some of the posters in this thread). The reporter asked how the official could justify the lack of democracy in China. THe official responded with that when he was young the people in his street elected him to the local committee (the Chinese seem to love committees). He worked hard, kept his nose clean and when there was a vacancy in the district committee his peers selected him by vote to serve on their behalf and that process happened all the way up the tree. (It was about the time Bush Jnr entered the White House on the minority of the popular vote). No politician works entirely without self interest whether for advancement or avoidance of loss. The ultimate example of this must surely be the one who is about to leave the White House.

Anyway, enough is enough. I just want to sail and help develop sailing where i sail and it is developing quite nicely here.

So - goodbye, and thanks for all the fish!!

I'm out!!

You are all welcome to come and see for yourselves once the COVID-19 has been defeated.

SS

The problem is you paint an amazing, rosey picture of China and all it involves. You make it sound like some utopian place that has the interest of the world at heart. Is it trying to get sailing going, yes. Is there a possibility that the new boss of WS will make a difference, yes. Is it a bully on the world stage, yes. Is it happy to ignore world bodies if they disagree with it, yes.

It is a complicated country and culture. It has many good points, but Xi is dragging it in a direction that is dangerous for the rest of us. That you gloss over these points is understandable, you live there and openly criticising the leader is not a good plan. Much like I never ask my Chinese friends to comment on the Internet, only in person.

SA often has thread drift, one that involved China was definitely going to drift, especially considering the way the Chinese government is behaving these days. So perhaps you need to stick to the sailing part you do so well and let the political comments slide by.

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33 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

The Party will be most pleased. 

Next time you see old Xi the Pooh, can you ask him how you say ‘Hypocritical cunt’ in Mandarin. I think it is  虚伪的婊子

Fuck China.

773E31ED-A84D-42E2-8EE2-6813BCE61914.jpeg

Nice photoshop Xi - you cunt

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

The problem is you paint an amazing, rosey picture of China and all it involves. You make it sound like some utopian place that has the interest of the world at heart. Is it trying to get sailing going, yes. Is there a possibility that the new boss of WS will make a difference, yes. Is it a bully on the world stage, yes. Is it happy to ignore world bodies if they disagree with it, yes.

It is a complicated country and culture. It has many good points, but Xi is dragging it in a direction that is dangerous for the rest of us. That you gloss over these points is understandable, you live there and openly criticising the leader is not a good plan. Much like I never ask my Chinese friends to comment on the Internet, only in person.

SA often has thread drift, one that involved China was definitely going to drift, especially considering the way the Chinese government is behaving these days. So perhaps you need to stick to the sailing part you do so well and let the political comments slide by.

 

1 hour ago, Dark Cloud said:

Thanks for your reply - good luck (or just have fun) with your sailing.

I love a good head to head where people are posting what they really think. China utopian? Nah, not really but it certainly far from the hell and damnation some try to paint. It would just be nice if occasionally people recognised the efforts many people are making here to grow our sport rather than trying to paint it as having an ulterior motive. No one calls Alex Thompson out because he makes money from sailing or Ken Read because he is North Sails President (and by the way i could not even pretend to be in the same league as they are as sailors) why should be any different if the person is Chinese.

Why the fuck do people have to try and see the negative in others people's team's or countries' efforts. No wonder the world is in a mess.

LQH may end up to be a disaster but why assume that he is before we see if he DOES raise the sponsorship and get WS out of the financial hole or if he does drive forward the ambitions in his initial statement as president. If he falls flat on his face then - so be it - they he deserves all the criticism coming his way but he has only been in the role 5 minutes.

Let's hope for the sake of our sport he DOES deliver.

Gissie, if I paint a rosy picture it is a) of the part of China - primarily the sailing community - that I regularly interact with and b) I am only interested it that subject when on Sailing Anarchy but attacks on the Chinese at least, fly very close to racist and i don't now why because just like us white guys they bleed red, they get sad when grannie dies or even one of their pet dogs.

Many of them are genuinely nice people. When i project managed the first Chinese owned boat to podium in the Sydney Hobart (2016 3rd IRC 1st ORCi) we were sitting outside a restaurant beside Constitution Dock and one of the owners friends came up and commented about my iPhone, asked if i liked it in black. Strange question i thought but a couple of days after i arrived back in China a latest iPhone IN BLACK arrived by courier with a short note thanking me for doing good for his friend - completely un-solicited - but that sort of thing tends to stick in your mind.

Shit - there are parts of my old home town, Edinburgh, where i wouldn't walk through during the day and pity help you if you are the wrong colour in parts of America - no country is perfect.  

Yes they have corruption here (although much less than before), control, and strict laws but they also have cops that are not armed (and friendly) they have relatively low crime rates and it never ceases to amaze me how readily a smile comes to their face who you use a little bit of their language whether it is a sorry, a thank you or whatever.

Dark Cloud, thank you for your message. I do have fun although when you are helping others getting into sailing or developing their talents one doesn't get to sail one's own boat quite so often. 

It has turned into a bit of a business which i never intended but when large chunks of your time are taken up with one's passion you still have to put food on the table

And Gissie, you are probably right about sticking to the sailing, played by a damn site more honest group of people than politics.

Maybe i am too old and cynical these days.

PAX Guys

 

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Wow I stumbled onto this thread while looking for something else. The vindictiveness is astonishing. Is that really what we are all becoming? Surely sailing should be a common bond between us. I too have lived in Asia and mostly China for the last 20 years, often working in the countryside with honest hard working people whose only ambition is to improve their lives and the lives of their family. Some from abject poverty that most of us cannot imagine (and could not endure). And indeed most peoples lives have improved greatly over that time.. Of course  yes there are issues. Its an extremely complicated country, with a history of instability and rebellion. At least at the moment it is moving in a direction domestically that most  (I know not all) of its citizens  can accept even if they don't agree with it all. They know that stability is essential if the country is to continue to develop   I agree the current regime has screwed up its international relations, but that's not helped by the aggression emanating from some citadels of freedom. Please give the Chinese people  some slack . China really is trying to find its way as a nation. Its one of the oldest continuous civilisations in the world yet its political structure is one of the least mature in the world.  Poking the bear doesn't help anyone.

I have been here for 20 years.  That doesn't qualify me to be an expert. I think the more you learn the less you know. I can only speak from personal experience of a complex and complicated society that I struggle to understand but seems to be doing well for most of its people. 

Suppose I will now be subject to ridicule and abuse  as well as Shanghai Sailor. Don't be too hard on him.  He really is what it says on the tin. Trying to help get sailing kickstarted here.  He doesn't just talk about it. He mentioned kids enjoying a regatta last weekend. What he didn't say was that one of the J70s sailed by the kids was his. Purchased just in time for the regatta for that very purpose. For kids to enjoy.

Better put my flak helmet on now....

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6 hours ago, Qingdaosog said:

Wow I stumbled onto this thread while looking for something else. The vindictiveness is astonishing. Is that really what we are all becoming? Surely sailing should be a common bond between us. I too have lived in Asia and mostly China for the last 20 years, often working in the countryside with honest hard working people whose only ambition is to improve their lives and the lives of their family. Some from abject poverty that most of us cannot imagine (and could not endure). And indeed most peoples lives have improved greatly over that time.. Of course  yes there are issues. Its an extremely complicated country, with a history of instability and rebellion. At least at the moment it is moving in a direction domestically that most  (I know not all) of its citizens  can accept even if they don't agree with it all. They know that stability is essential if the country is to continue to develop   I agree the current regime has screwed up its international relations, but that's not helped by the aggression emanating from some citadels of freedom. Please give the Chinese people  some slack . China really is trying to find its way as a nation. Its one of the oldest continuous civilisations in the world yet its political structure is one of the least mature in the world.  Poking the bear doesn't help anyone.

I have been here for 20 years.  That doesn't qualify me to be an expert. I think the more you learn the less you know. I can only speak from personal experience of a complex and complicated society that I struggle to understand but seems to be doing well for most of its people. 

Suppose I will now be subject to ridicule and abuse  as well as Shanghai Sailor. Don't be too hard on him.  He really is what it says on the tin. Trying to help get sailing kickstarted here.  He doesn't just talk about it. He mentioned kids enjoying a regatta last weekend. What he didn't say was that one of the J70s sailed by the kids was his. Purchased just in time for the regatta for that very purpose. For kids to enjoy.

Better put my flak helmet on now....

Of course the majority of the Chinese are much like people everywhere, they just want to get ahead. In a similar vein, many disagree/hate American policy, but accept Americans as normal people.

However the new leadership is a dangerous beast, dragging the country in a different direction, and needs to be considered as such. At times it is difficult to draw the line between person and country. The recently elected boss of WS is a projection of the Chinese government, no way he is not. As such he will do his job and hopefully help improve things, but he will also be pushing the agenda he is given by the CCP. It is part of their philosophy, fight, fight, talk, talk. Project a demeanour of benevolence and helpfulness, all while plotting in the background.  So there are certainly grounds for concern, possibly unfounded in the short, or even long, term.

And you should have no need for a flak jacket. A carbon box guard could be...

 

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9 hours ago, Qingdaosog said:

  I agree the current regime has screwed up its international relations, but that's not helped by the aggression emanating from some citadels of freedom.

Apart from the drivel that flows from that moron Trumps mouth, name one other Country that has instigated 'aggression'. Certainly not Australia, one of China's main trading partners. All our PM said, quite rightly, that there needs to be an investigation into the source of the virus. Your statement is the same old party line bullshit. 'We didn't start it' and any criticism of China is racist. What I can tell you is that for what it is worth there is now widespread boycotting of Chinese products by Australian consumers. While it might not be the kind of protest to get the party worried, somewhere in China there will be a farmer or a small factory owner WHO WILL suffer because of it. But their suffering is a small price to pay for some stupid cunt posting a meme. China is a country not a race and it's ruling party are nasty, lying, power hungry cunts not leaders. Because of it's current aggression and bullying it has no right to expect to be taken seriously in any field of endeavor. This guy has been put in the presidency by the party. Sailing does not need interference from the CCP.

Fuck China.

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We're also all adult enough to distinguish between the Chinese people and the CCP. I don't think too many posters are against the Chinese people or have a problem with them on the street or in the lesser towns.

The CCP are thin skinned bullies. Not leaders.

Shang is doing a good job bringing sailing to Chinese people. Happy for that.

To pretend that all is well with the worlds relationship with the CCP is naive. The WS president is only there at the behest of the CCP, let's see where that takes us? I'm not optimistic.

In Australia, we're copping their (CCP) wrath and vindictiveness on an increasing scale of shitfuckery. Prompting a big move to boycott Chinese products etc., which won't hurt China very much, if at all.

I'd prefer to change the rhetoric and mindset to a  "buy Australian" rather than boycott anyone, that's what will make the difference to Australia.

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58 minutes ago, charisma94 said:

We're also all adult enough to distinguish between the Chinese people and the CCP. I don't think too many posters are against the Chinese people or have a problem with them on the street or in the lesser towns.

The CCP are thin skinned bullies. Not leaders.

Shang is doing a good job bringing sailing to Chinese people. Happy for that.

To pretend that all is well with the worlds relationship with the CCP is naive. The WS president is only there at the behest of the CCP, let's see where that takes us? I'm not optimistic.

In Australia, we're copping their (CCP) wrath and vindictiveness on an increasing scale of shitfuckery. Prompting a big move to boycott Chinese products etc., which won't hurt China very much, if at all.

I'd prefer to change the rhetoric and mindset to a  "buy Australian" rather than boycott anyone, that's what will make the difference to Australia.

Albo seems upset with the policy of boycotting China? Wonder why that is!

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The thing that irritates me is that ScoMo and his Elk (and the other mob, lets be honest) are quite happy to wag their fingers. To raise their eyebrows and to tut-tut, but they wont actually do anything because Urma Gurd, Teh Economy. So while China does whatever the cunting buggery fuck it wants and add tarrifs, prevent imports, post memes until the cows come home, rather than banning iron ore exports to China or coal exports to China or doing SOMETHING, all we do is give them a jolly good telling off! I bet they must be shaking in their boots

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No more fucking sweet and sour pork for me!

Old XI the pooh will be sorry he ever fucked with me.

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6 hours ago, Weyalan said:

The thing that irritates me is that ScoMo and his Elk (and the other mob, lets be honest) are quite happy to wag their fingers. To raise their eyebrows and to tut-tut, but they wont actually do anything because Urma Gurd, Teh Economy. So while China does whatever the cunting buggery fuck it wants and add tarrifs, prevent imports, post memes until the cows come home, rather than banning iron ore exports to China or coal exports to China or doing SOMETHING, all we do is give them a jolly good telling off! I bet they must be shaking in their boots

So, when we have a problem with a superpower, up the stakes, trash the one industry keeping the economy afloat and play a high risk game of chicken. Glad you're not a minister of anything. If you haven't noticed, economy means jobs. And in case that's your game, jobs and the taxes on them pay for welfare and public servants.

Ask Venezuela and Zimbabwe how it turns out when you trash your economy.

China are already developing a "Pilbara Killer" mine in Africa. It's just a matter of time anyway.

China has a long memory. Even if, in the very unlikely event you managed to get them actually to accept losing face by a backdown to your hostage taking, the punishment in the medium term would be all the bigger and more vindictive.

And then there's the very small matter of recognizing that's essentially how Japan entered WW2.

Albo's already starting to go craven in the name of politics. Next time he suggests Scomo ought to handle the situation better, Scomo should ask him just which part of our sovereignty we should compromise on.

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