TheDragon

2 Sailors picked up by CG 175 miles off Cape Hatteras

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52 ft sailboat, seemingly in good shape except for "vessel's engines had lost power" and large seas. I've yet to sail on open ocean, but you must be under considerable duress to bail on a seemingly fine sailing vessel like this. Presumably headed south to warmer climes? Anyone know more?

Cape Hatteras Bouy in that general area shows 30-40 knots from north on Monday, which would would presumably set up quite a sea opposing the gulf stream. Maybe tossed up muck in the diesel tank?

 

https://www.outerbanksvoice.com/2020/11/03/two-rescued-from-stranded-vessel-by-coast-guard/

Screen Shot 2020-11-04 at 3.45.58 PM.png

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Remember when the engine was auxiliary power on sailboats?

Remember when sailboats had no other source of power but their sails?

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21 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Remember when the engine was auxiliary power on sailboats?

Remember when sailboats has no other source of power but their sails?

Remember when places like Sable Island were known for having over 500 shipwrecks...?

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24 minutes ago, Veeger said:

Remember when places like Sable Island were known for having over 500 shipwrecks...?

They haventte remooved anny wrecks, haive they?                                 :)

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Remember when the engine was auxiliary power on sailboats?

Remember when sailboats had no other source of power but their sails?

Right on!

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1 hour ago, Veeger said:

Remember when places like Sable Island were known for having over 500 shipwrecks...?

That was caused by no navigational instruments and dense fog, not the lack of an engine.

Titanic had some MoFo big engines.

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175 miles off Cape Hatteras

so plenty of sea room then ?

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It can get mighty shallow at the bottom of those deep troughs

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anybody able to post a pic of a relevant chart please ?

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3 minutes ago, Expat Canuck said:

14,000+ feet water depth.

thanxs

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21 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

It can get mighty shallow at the bottom of those deep troughs

read that as togue in cheek but had to check ...

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Remember when the engine was auxiliary power on sailboats?

Remember when sailboats had no other source of power but their sails?

Did they forget how to use the sails??

 

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56 minutes ago, Mid said:
Quote

175 miles off Cape Hatteras

so plenty of sea room then ?

My thought. 

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Just now, Blue Crab said:
58 minutes ago, Mid said:
Quote

175 miles off Cape Hatteras

so plenty of sea room then ?

My thought. 

And donig a goode jobb stayeng away frome shallowes to.............                   :)

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She'll be alright on her own.

She should show up off the Irish coast sometime next year.

BALI_HAI.jpg

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I am piuzzled bty seeminlgy well- found sailboats being given up calling moomie when the engine quits. This is not ehe first time.

Something else must have been wrong.

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perfect westsail Satori forced to abandon ship in the prefect storm

image.jpeg.f37bec006ee6c610835cff24e52437d1.jpeg

only to be found in Maryland beach intacted

image.jpeg.fb343373ac49425c015f859af29156b9.jpeg

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31 minutes ago, Not for nothing said:

perfect westsail Satori forced to abandon ship in the prefect storm

image.jpeg.f37bec006ee6c610835cff24e52437d1.jpeg

only to be found in Maryland beach intacted

image.jpeg.fb343373ac49425c015f859af29156b9.jpeg

In the FAstnbet disaster, 19 people died but a quite large number of boats were aboandonded that were never lost.

Marchaj pointed out that the vessels wwere violently rolling sometimes capsizing etc. Crews abandonded them for fear--perhaps entirely justified. Though the old adage, "step up into the liferaft" comes to mind...

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Conditions may have rendered the crew unable to continue? Dragon mentions 30-40 knot northerly above. That could get quite nasty blowing against Gulf Stream current. Two old codgers/retirees(?) heading south for the winter may not have been up to it.  Or maybe delivery guys who got tired or scared?  Anyone have any adtl info, rather than conjecture?

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2 hours ago, See Level said:

She'll be alright on her own.

She should show up off the Irish coast sometime next year.

BALI_HAI.jpg

Amel 52. Conditions 35-40 G55 wind against the stream. Boat should stand up to it but really shitty conditions as shown in the FLIR video. 
 

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"This boat will go anywhere. Whether you want to be on it or not is another story!"

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"2 Sailors picked up"... Maybe abandoning the boat was far cheaper than the pending divorce. 

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Well, most of you know that it is more common than not 

for the crew to give out before the boat does. 

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8 hours ago, fastyacht said:

In the FAstnbet disaster, 19 people died but a quite large number of boats were aboandonded that were never lost.

Marchaj pointed out that the vessels wwere violently rolling sometimes capsizing etc. Crews abandonded them for fear--perhaps entirely justified. Though the old adage, "step up into the liferaft" comes to mind...

Umm that "Old Adage", to my understanding, was created by that storm.  They completely changed the thinking on when to get in the liferaft after finding all those abandoned boats still floating.  

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I used to remark that it was unfair to take wives and children offshore without showing them those really awful video clips of the spit hitting the fan. Real sailing wives are few and far between.

It was unfair of me to exclude men. Those of us who've read all the old, real sailors' (pre-electronics and polyester) stories know that the boat will likely take whatever. But we're not the boat buyers of today. My take on modern sailors is they they have not done the prep, they hire people, and get in trouble when the slightest bit goes awry. 

And, the Gulfstream is less than 100 m wide off Hatteras so these guys were not fighting the oppositional forces that we can imagine, which is not to laugh at 40k winds.

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Even if the boat is doing OK, if the crew is incapacitated 

what choice do they really have other than to be taken off if it is practical?? 

I'm not saying that today's sailors are wimps, even though some are. 

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6 hours ago, TUBBY said:

And NOT finding all of the life rafts.

yes a number of the liferafts were not lost but came apart and people were lost

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20 hours ago, TheDragon said:

"vessel's engines had lost power"

That's all we know and that's not enough.

 

20 hours ago, TheDragon said:

Maybe tossed up muck in the diesel tank?

Can almost count on that altho prudent mariners would have cleaned the tank before a major cruise. When things calm down, bleed the injectors. Keep sailing.

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And who could forget this ‘ship wreak’?

ACB51AF1-C90E-42E0-8EB9-74F06A7E6D9A.jpeg

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That turned out to be a train wreak.

E06D3FA3-5E7A-4F3B-9F3B-475B54FC9DDA.jpeg

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Never one to admit she held her woman captive for so long...the dogs are still in shock from the shark attack

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Advice from the old man when I was learning:

"Kid, the boat's tougher than you are"

and, just to drive the point home:

"The boat can take it, if you can"

 

I won't second-guess this one pending any further info as to why they bailed.   But the Coast Guard has risked it themselves to go out to quite a few sailboat distress calls where the crew is beat-up, exhausted, and seasick, in varying degrees, in an otherwise seaworthy and undamaged boat.

 

full disclosure:  I'm retired Coast Guard, was a land creature mostly, but for the rescuers, it's "You have to go out.  You don't have to came back".  I'd hate to see that be true, especially where it's a boat that's just tougher than the people rather than vice-versa. 

I'll bite my tongue at this time.  I don't know the whole story.

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Is theire anywaye finde oute if they hade fryeng pan on boarde?                                                         :)

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3 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Even if the boat is doing OK, if the crew is incapacitated 

what choice do they really have other than to be taken off if it is practical?? 

I'm not saying that today's sailors are wimps, even though some are. 

Umm you strap yourself to your bunk and wait,  Or willpower yourself through the tough times. 

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2 minutes ago, LoopyGirdleSniffer said:

Umm you strap yourself to your bunk and wait,  Or willpower yourself through the tough times. 

I think this is a generational problem.

 

The young generation of today is used to the 'instant' appeal of soups, messages, amazon orders and movies....

They are used to the 'instant' relief of pain and discomfort....

Don't break up with someone face to face.. just text them... no pain here...

If this generation had to deal with the London Blitz, they would be crying about the problems with mental health, and the inability to get a pint, or the government restrictions on going to the seaside.

Now.. Sailing is great.. look at the kool videos.. all tanned and sun and warm water and dolphins.. don't forget the dolphins...

But creaking and groaning ships, waves throwing everything about....  not what the popular videos and blogs really show.

 

And ... waiting through a storm?  No pressing of the button and getting a new 'theme' that is more appealing to your mood?

 

I do understand wanting the best and easiest route in life... But (in my unfortunate personal experience) it is not always 'smooth sailing'.

Yet.. the rough patches... make us into grown ups.  Where our experience living through unpleasant storms helps us weather our way through the rest of our life...

 

....  sorry.. about the rant...  

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

Is theire anywaye finde oute if they hade fryeng pan on boarde?                                                         :)

They weren't far from it...can be a nasty place

Frying Pan Shoals - Wikipedia

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18 minutes ago, h20man said:

I think this is a generational problem.

 

The young generation of today is used to the 'instant' appeal of soups, messages, amazon orders and movies....

 

My grandfathers generation said pretty much the same thing about my fathers generation. Different themes for the instant gratification but I distinctly remember some of the comments. And as for my generation.... I suspect we had not grown up enough to properly confirm his prejudices about us :).

 

As for the young today.... 'O Tempora O Mores' (Cicero ~60BC)

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3 hours ago, nolatom said:

where the crew is beat-up, exhausted, and seasick, in varying degrees,

 

59 minutes ago, LoopyGirdleSniffer said:

Umm you strap yourself to your bunk and wait,  Or willpower yourself through the tough times. 

 

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2 hours ago, h20man said:

I think this is a generational problem.

 

The young generation of today is used to the 'instant' appeal of soups, messages, amazon orders and movies....

They are used to the 'instant' relief of pain and discomfort....

Don't break up with someone face to face.. just text them... no pain here...

If this generation had to deal with the London Blitz, they would be crying about the problems with mental health, and the inability to get a pint, or the government restrictions on going to the seaside.

Now.. Sailing is great.. look at the kool videos.. all tanned and sun and warm water and dolphins.. don't forget the dolphins...

But creaking and groaning ships, waves throwing everything about....  not what the popular videos and blogs really show.

 

And ... waiting through a storm?  No pressing of the button and getting a new 'theme' that is more appealing to your mood?

 

I do understand wanting the best and easiest route in life... But (in my unfortunate personal experience) it is not always 'smooth sailing'.

Yet.. the rough patches... make us into grown ups.  Where our experience living through unpleasant storms helps us weather our way through the rest of our life...

 

....  sorry.. about the rant...  

 

 

 

Do you know the age of the 2 crew who abandonned ship in that case? I did not find it in the article link in the OP...

What makes you believe that it is not two blokes in their 50's or 60's? You know, the tough generation...

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5 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

at least the fenders are safe....   wtf is that hanging off the back?

 

Coast-Guard-110220.jpg

Looks like an upended solar panel to me

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The captain of the sailing vessel initially informed IERCC watchstanders that he had activated his emergency position indicating radio beacon after the vessel’s engines had lost power and was concerned about staying aboard due to rough weather and high seas.

Quote

No injuries were reported.

https://www.thecoastlandtimes.com/2020/11/03/coast-guard-rescues-two-boaters-from-sailing-vessel-near-cape-hatteras/

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4 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

Looks like an upended solar panel to me

My guess as well.  Looks like in-mast furling that has worked well.  And I’ll guess that’s a mostly-furled working job, rather than a storm job.  
Nice- looking ketch (or maybe yawl) riding well.

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18 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

at least the fenders are safe....   wtf is that hanging off the back?

 

Coast-Guard-110220.jpg

Trump poster

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Boat looks good, sails apparently okay too.   No need for the engine.  No apparent personal injuries.

That's a lovely boat to walk away from.  She took care of them.  And they've left her out there.  Doesn't seem right.

 

Maybe it's just me.  I think of the boat as kind of a living thing.

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14 hours ago, Laurent said:

Do you know the age of the 2 crew who abandonned ship in that case? I did not find it in the article link in the OP...

What makes you believe that it is not two blokes in their 50's or 60's? You know, the tough generation...

You are absolutely correct... I do not know the age...  and just "ASS U ME D" the worst... bad perspective on my part.. Looking forward to finding out...

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5 hours ago, h20man said:

You are absolutely correct... I do not know the age...  and just "ASS U ME D" the worst... bad perspective on my part.. Looking forward to finding out...

ok.  A quick call to the public affairs office of the U.S. Coast Guard 5th District Mid-Atlantic....  thanked them for all they do.. and found out that the people rescued were "a couple in their 60's"...  No photos, no details other then from people on the ground.....   so... apologies about my rant, and looks like the comment about abandonment of a boat is cheaper then a divorce is probably more on the mark.

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I know a guy who jumped out of a Cessna 150 and salvaged an abandoned boat just off Hatteras. A man among men.  

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35 minutes ago, h20man said:

  abandonment of a boat is cheaper then a divorce is probably more on the mark.

he may divorce her for making him abandon his boat...   a couple of sedatives would have been a whole lot cheaper..

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

I know a guy who jumped out of a Cessna 150 and salvaged an abandoned boat just off Hatteras. A man among men.  

I wonder if it was a low speed pass and he jumped out for a splash down or a full on parachute in.

the hardest part of either of those options would be getting up into the boat.  Especially in rough seas...  would be one helluva story..

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

I know a guy who jumped out of a Cessna 150 and salvaged an abandoned boat just off Hatteras. A man among men.  

I'd like to hear that story!

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You've heard all I know about that story but I'm almost certain it was a low pass. It was his own airplane. I hesitate to put his name on here but he runs his own operation and will take on "Damn Near Anything" as it sez on the doors of his trucks and gear. When the ocean piers get damaged he's the guy you call to run a pneumatic saw to cut the pilings out underwater. Got a job for a superman? ... pm me. He's in Beaufort, NC. 

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12 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

You've heard all I know about that story but I'm almost certain it was a low pass. It was his own airplane. I hesitate to put his name on here but he runs his own operation and will take on "Damn Near Anything" as it sez on the doors of his trucks and gear. When the ocean piers get damaged he's the guy you call to run a pneumatic saw to cut the pilings out underwater. Got a job for a superman? ... pm me. He's in Beaufort, NC. 

So he left the airplane for Neptune? A fair trade?

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

So he left the airplane for Neptune? A fair trade?

The 150 is a 2 seat airplane, Captain. If one person jumps out (even the owner) but there's still another person who can fly the airplane, well shit man! you've still got yerself an airplane. Doncha love happy endings?

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9 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

he may divorce her for making him abandon his boat...   a couple of sedatives would have been a whole lot cheaper..

I suspect for quite a few long term cruising couples you are making an incorrect gender assumption!

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On 11/6/2020 at 5:29 PM, 10thTonner said:

I'd like to hear that story!

I think you can get them down to about 45 mph ?

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1 hour ago, Cristoforo said:

I think you can get them down to about 45 mph ?

48 knots. 55 mph.

Ouch.

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1 hour ago, justsomeguy! said:

48 knots. 55 mph.

Ouch.

Dive bomb him in!

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23 hours ago, Mark Morwood said:

I suspect for quite a few long term cruising couples you are making an incorrect gender assumption!

sorry, didn't mean to step on your toes..

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10 hours ago, justsomeguy! said:

48 knots. 55 mph.

Ouch.

It'll buff out.

Same guy kept a grown female lion til the county found out.

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That’s air speed. Heading into a moderate headwind  could get your ground (water) speed down to a moderate waterski wipeout speed?  The terrifying part, of course, is if the boat is drifting faster than you can swim to catch up. THAT is some nightmare fuel.

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Oh man!  I was anchored near Fort Monroe when this boat came in and anchored near by.  Their boat is an Amel ketch.  That was on about 10/23.  I was only anchored there one night before moving to a marina in Portsmouth to wait out that really crappy weather.  I can't believe they headed out into that.  They only had to wait until Tuesday for things to clear up.

Here's the GRIB for the approximate time they were rescued:

 

grib2.jpg

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Thanks Max, a picture worth a thousand words.  Forty knots, very bad weather indeed, possibly aggravated by the Gulf Stream. A rough ride on that capable-looking and apparently undamaged yawl.

And what kind of ride was it for the Coast Guard rescue swimmer who had to jump out of a perfectly good heliocopter into that angry water, not just "on" it in a seaworthy boat?

I'm glad it went well, but these rescues are not without risk to the rescuers.  It could have gone bad.  Very glad it didn't.

 

I'm retired Coast Guard, albeit mostly a desk-driver or shipyard type.  So likely not entirely objective about that risk. The unofficial motto for the boat and flight crews is "You have to go out --  You don't have to come back."  Any time you call or EPIRB a rescue, that additional risk is what you're setting in motion.

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16 hours ago, MaxDog said:

Oh man!  I was anchored near Fort Monroe when this boat came in and anchored near by.  Their boat is an Amel ketch.  That was on about 10/23.  I was only anchored there one night before moving to a marina in Portsmouth to wait out that really crappy weather.  I can't believe they headed out into that.  They only had to wait until Tuesday for things to clear up.

 

Thanks for posting up your experience with them and doing the work to look up the conditions.  The real value in discussing this sort of thing isn't in the voyeur value, which is fun, but in the lessons learned in the post-mortem.  

This sounds like a reinforcement of the maxim, "Don't leave port with a timetable."  Or in other words, if you have the choice, wait for a good weather window.  

So, question for the peanut gallery - assuming you were out there, double handing, what would your sailing tactics and bearing be?  How would you handle it?  My own preference would be to hunker down on the most comfortable more or less eastward bearing I could find, and ride it out.  I could always beat back to port later when the weather calmed down... 

 

 

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On 11/5/2020 at 7:47 PM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

at least the fenders are safe....   wtf is that hanging off the back?

 

Coast-Guard-110220.jpg

That's an Amel Super Maramu by the looks of it. Wort at least $250k. Anybody up for a trip?

The boat outlasted the crew by a wide margin. I'm sure shes still out there.

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Unfortunately... there is a quote on yachtworld for a Amel Super Maramu for sale that has the following in the description:

Quote

With the AMEL designed and constructed all furling rig and powerful bow thruster and powered Lewmar winches, the SUPER MARAMU can be managed by one competent sailor offshore and is truly child's play for a cruising couple to manage in any circumstance.

(I added the bold and italic... )

 

46 minutes ago, Mark Set said:

That's an Amel Super Maramu by the looks of it. Wort at least $250k. Anybody up for a trip?

The boat outlasted the crew by a wide margin. I'm sure shes still out there.

I understood (from a post/article) that a salvage is being undertaken.

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1 hour ago, Lex Teredo said:

 

Thanks for posting up your experience with them and doing the work to look up the conditions.  The real value in discussing this sort of thing isn't in the voyeur value, which is fun, but in the lessons learned in the post-mortem.  

This sounds like a reinforcement of the maxim, "Don't leave port with a timetable."  Or in other words, if you have the choice, wait for a good weather window.  

So, question for the peanut gallery - assuming you were out there, double handing, what would your sailing tactics and bearing be?  How would you handle it?  My own preference would be to hunker down on the most comfortable more or less eastward bearing I could find, and ride it out.  I could always beat back to port later when the weather calmed down... 

 

 

Google 'heaving to'.  Those boats  are built for those conditions. 

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On 11/6/2020 at 2:03 AM, nolatom said:

My guess as well.  Looks like in-mast furling that has worked well.  And I’ll guess that’s a mostly-furled working job, rather than a storm job.  
Nice- looking ketch (or maybe yawl) riding well.

That's a ketch unless the rudder post is part of the keel. A yawl has its mizzen behind the rudder post and vice versa for a ketch

Any update on why they abandoned ship. I guess the guys on the vendee would have dismissed conditions as being bracing!

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15 minutes ago, h20man said:

Jeanne Socrates and Roger Taylor swear by the Jordan Series Drogue.

Gives the crew a chance to rest.. and the sea a chance to calm down.

I’m not sure rigging  and deploying and retrieving a drogue would be easily done by this elderly couple or was in their skill set. . And probably the conditions were not quite that bad. 

They fucked up before they left the dock and were overwhelmed  

They should have signed up for weather routing and active consulting  for a couple hundred bucks. Then they never would have been in that spot. 

And signed on some competent crew for the delivery for a couple of days. That’s a lot of boat for an inexperienced husband and wife. 

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49 minutes ago, h20man said:

Unfortunately... there is a quote on yachtworld for a Amel Super Maramu for sale that has the following in the description:

It is a great sea boat, those conditions shouldn't have been an issue for it.

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1 hour ago, Cristoforo said:

elderly couple

Uhhh...I thought someone said they were in their sixties.  Elderly Hell!  :angry::lol:

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