Jud - s/v Sputnik

Electric windlass recommendations? 33’ boat

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Does anyone have any quick suggestions on electric windlasses?  I know absolutely nothing about brands/models/features.

Today it’s “remove the old Simpson-Lawrence Seatiger 555 manual windlass from the deck day” —winter rebuild.  It’s fairly ancient, but has given great service for decades. I repacked the grease in it 10 years ago before heading to Alaska, but it’s stated to be problematic now.  I’m quite sure it can be reconditioned (amazingly, parts are still available, and there’s even —of course— a fantastic, detailed step-by-step vid on YT of someone re-assembling one)...but I’d like to start at least thinking about an electric windlass, for one day.  Love the simplicity of my windlass, but I can see the desirability/safety factor of being able to very quickly haul up chain and a 20kg/44lb anchor in a big blow, say, at night...

Any general background info on electric windlasses would be great.  Perhaps someone’s seen an article comparing/contrasting different brands/models, or something?

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I can't speak to the choice of electric windlass itself but just as important is how you'll power it. If you'll be doing so from your main bank, plan on very heavy gauge wire runs to the bow, including a high current breaker, especially if the bank is 12V. You'll definitely want to stay below a 3% voltage drop under worst-case loads on the windlass. The other way to go is with a dedicated battery bank up front, but that generally is more complex and expensive. 

I'm convinced a lot of the complaints people have about their electric windlasses being able to do the job can be traced back to inadequate power...

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16 minutes ago, IStream said:

I can't speak to the choice of electric windlass itself but just as important is how you'll power it. If you'll be doing so from your main bank, plan on very heavy gauge wire runs to the bow, including a high current breaker, especially if the bank is 12V. You'll definitely want to stay below a 3% voltage drop under worst-case loads on the windlass. The other way to go is with a dedicated battery bank up front, but that generally is more complex and expensive. 

I'm convinced a lot of the complaints people have about their electric windlasses being able to do the job can be traced back to inadequate power...

Thanks for the info.  Yeah, I’m aware of the general electrical considerations...then I started to browse a background article, and read about the need for a relay box (most common point of failure, apparently) if a remote switch is used (instead of foot buttons)...which then got me wondering how in the hell I’d install foot buttons anyway, let alone bringing like 4/0 cable (or whatever) forward from my house bank, etc etc.  In sum, sounds like it could be a fairly pricey, but mostly pretty involved, installation. (And the issue with a dedicated battery forward then becomes cabling to that to be sure it is charged properly...)

I’ve got an email in to SL Spares in Scotland, former machinist (?) at SL before it was bought by Lewmar - perhaps they’ll have some advice and I can rebuild the Seatiger and call it done, putting electric windlass thoughts to bed :-). Still, I’d at least like to start trying to see how such a set up might possibly work.

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The foot buttons I have seen all use a relay box...if that is what you are writing.

Big cable from the battery to the windlass is not the huge weight penalty people think it is. 0.7 lbs/ft says Google. A 33 ft boat would have about 40 ft of cable if the batteries are somewhat aft. That is 28 lbs. (Do smaller windlasses spec 4/0 for a 20 ft run? Sounds too big.) A sufficient battery forward is no great advantage while being a maintenance chore in itself.

I've done it both manual and electric. Electric windlasses are pretty much a miracle device for cruisers despite all their cost and weight. Could be different if someone updated the design of manual windlasses from what is now pretty pathetic from an efficiency standpoint.

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The nice thing about foot buttons is that they leave your hands free for things like washing the chain down as it comes on board. However, they require big holes in the deck and they are consumables. Each cycle of the button degrades it due to arcing and eventually you've got to replace them. They're not super expensive but I'm not sure I'd use them on a new install. The relay box is probably gonna be there no matter what because it's necessary for directional control. Once you have it in place (in a dry location belowdecks for reliability), it doesn't really care what kind of switch you're using as long as it has the necessary rating: foot switch, momentary toggle, wireless remote. In fact, you can wire them all up to a bus bar (one for each direction) and have multiple control options. 

If you end up with a 12V system, MarineBeam has a nice remote option: https://store.marinebeam.com/wireless-remote-control-kit-for-anchor-windlass-or-bow-thruster/

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We have a Lofrans Tigres on our 42' 9t cruiser and think it's great - plenty of power with a 55lb rocna and 3/8 HT chain.  Way overkill for a 33'er though.   We've got it wired with a handheld remote (plugs into a shore power outlet on foredeck next to windlass) rather than foot buttons - have used foot buttons on other boats, and think we like the remote better.  With foot buttons placement is important so that you can both reach the windlass and see the chain over the bow while pushing the buttons.  I think we like the handheld remote better as you can move around the foredeck with it, and still have other hand free to hold on or do stuff.

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A Simpson-Lawrence Seatiger 555 manual windlass in good nick will be a quick sell. 

I have a Lofrans Kobra. 25 years old and still working fine. Simple enough for a moran like me to maintain and re-build. Parts are easy to get.  Pull 200' of 5/16th G43 and a 66lb Bruce. 

I do hate the Lewmar foot switches I have. Short lifespan and it's easy to brace with a foot and start it running. 

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4 minutes ago, Elegua said:

I do hate the Lewmar foot switches I have. Short lifespan and it's easy to brace with a foot and start it running. 

FWIW, I've got the Maxwell-branded footswitches with hinged covers. They've lasted a long time and the covers don't just keep the water off, they're are strong enough to bear weight so you won't accidentally start the windlass with an errant foot.

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4 minutes ago, IStream said:

FWIW, I've got the Maxwell-branded footswitches with hinged covers. They've lasted a long time and the covers don't just keep the water off, they're are strong enough to bear weight so you won't accidentally start the windlass with an errant foot.

Thanks. I'll try those next. The all important "Up" switch is probably next to die. Footswitch cover management is key.  It's shocking when you step on both at the same time. 

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1 minute ago, Elegua said:

Thanks. I'll try those next. The all important "Up" switch is probably next to die. Footswitch cover management is key.  It's shocking when you step on both at the same time. 

Literally?

;)

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2 minutes ago, IStream said:

Literally?

;)

No. But it's exciting until the fuse blows. 

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Because our boat is quite weight-sensitive in the bow, I decided to use 1/4" G4 chain and 1/2" 3-strand nylon with a Lewmar V700. Much lighter and cheaper electric cable run with 70 feet of wire, much less weight at the pointy end. I use the Lewmar hand-held remote with it and it has worked really well for us. I did have to replace the windlass after 12 years when something went wrong in the gearbox in the middle of a cruise. The good news is the replacement was locally sourced where we were, not expensive, and I kept the original for parts. 

The windlass is not recommended for extreme use but we have used it quite hard, including a 2-month trip around Vancouver Island where we anchored almost every night, and multiple 3-week excursions up to Desolation.

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My 20 ton 50'er is arguably under-spec'd with 5/16" G4 chain and a Maxwell 1500 windlass but like you, I don't like a lot of unnecessary weight in the bow. The only real issue with my setup is that the thinner chain is more vulnerable to rust, so I keep a close eye on it, wash it down with freshwater on the way up, have good locker drainage, periodically treat the chain with Boeshield, etc. 

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3 hours ago, IStream said:

My 20 ton 50'er is arguably under-spec'd with 5/16" G4 chain and a Maxwell 1500 windlass but like you, I don't like a lot of unnecessary weight in the bow. The only real issue with my setup is that the thinner chain is more vulnerable to rust, so I keep a close eye on it, wash it down with freshwater on the way up, have good locker drainage, periodically treat the chain with Boeshield, etc. 

Agreed. I replaced our chain after 12 years because of the rust.

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I replaced a gorgeous, large Ideal windlass with a 1000 w Quick windlass on our Bristol 45.5. The Ideal was right up in the bow but the result was the chain castled. I put the Quick much further aft so the chain fell without incident. The windlass was probably too small for the boat (40K pounds) but it was all that would fit with the deck layout as it was. It worked very well for 40,000 nm with only a repair in Australia when a wire burned mostly out making speed very low. Funny story, we got the windlass repaired in Mackay, Queensland at a place that advertised repairs to electric motors. Turns out they service large motors and generators for the mining industry. They said they had never done a 12v before. Apparently the techs were fighting over who would get to repair the 'toy' motor that you carry under your arm.

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I did not like our Quick brand windlass. The lip seal under the chainwheel (gypsy) failed frequently, allowing water into the motor below. It did get splashed by waves a fair bit, but it was 20' aft of the bow.... When water got it in, it corroded the brush holders which had to replaced at >$100 each + courier fees to whatever part of the world we were in.

The same relay box is used by many windlass manufacturers and it is not very water resistant. I rebuilt ours and sanded down the arcing points a number of times. Water can get in at the 3 small actuating wire tabs you see in the front.

533534-waterproof-solenoid-reversing-con

On our first boat we had a Muir which just worked. There was only a "UP" button and it carried full power load, so no relay box either. Lowering, you just released the clutch and the anchor freewheeled down.

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My PO installed a Quick brand chain counter and it was no end of trouble with all sorts of water intrusion-related issues. Seems to be a theme.

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Well, one step closer —to what exactly, I dunno :-) (rebuilding this puppy, or going electric...but I’m loathe to be without a windlass too long, because then winter cruising options get very narrow.)

451094C5-1414-4EA7-80B7-7662F36EEB01.jpeg

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I’ve got a Lofrans Tigres that is from 1992, I have rebuilt it but that’s only a couple years ago...

I rigged up for it a cheap Chinese wireless remote that was officially for a truck winch. I spent $10 at eBay. Came with one receiver and two remotes. So far the wireless has lasted five years...

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Going to an electric windlass is a change in your life. 

Tired, the sun is going down and the anchor set didn't feel right. Absolutely no hesitation in trying 2 or 3 more spots to get it right.

With a manual windlass the temptation is strong to just say "it'll be fine..." when you know you shouldn't.

I like having a capstan on the windlass not just a chain gypsy. Very useful for hoisting someone up the mast under power.

I like Muir (now owned by IMTRA)/Lofrans/Ideal/Maxwell.  Not keen on Quick, Lewmar (keep changing models and don't seem to keep spare parts for older ones).

Most of the windlasses require studs or bolts from underneath through a deck. Very few will have external studs like you have on your existing one.

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2 hours ago, Zonker said:

I did not like our Quick brand windlass. The lip seal under the chainwheel (gypsy) failed frequently, allowing water into the motor below. It did get splashed by waves a fair bit, but it was 20' aft of the bow.... When water got it in, it corroded the brush holders which had to replaced at >$100 each + courier fees to whatever part of the world we were in.

The same relay box is used by many windlass manufacturers and it is not very water resistant. I rebuilt ours and sanded down the arcing points a number of times. Water can get in at the 3 small actuating wire tabs you see in the front.

533534-waterproof-solenoid-reversing-con

On our first boat we had a Muir which just worked. There was only a "UP" button and it carried full power load, so no relay box either. Lowering, you just released the clutch and the anchor freewheeled down.

Why didn't you turn the relay box upside down so the water dripped off instead of running in - and potted the connections with goop? Might be a shit design but there's usually a kludge-fix.

As for the Muir winches, I've rebuilt 2 of the manual Hercules ones. I don't know how people managed to damage them but they must have tried very, very hard - I got 5 sheared Woodruff keys out of one.

I converted one to electric drive and while it's a technical success I'm not totally happy with the ergonomics and waterproofing of my solution. Still pondering that one - the manual one is on the boat and working fine.

As I have *zero* intention of cutting a hole in my foredeck for a vertical shaft anchor winch if I buy an electric one, as is likely, it'll be a Muir HR1600 or the smaller HR700 if I think it adequate (8 tonne boat).

FKT

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The box was in a bridgedeck anchor locker that had a front opening door. Water didn't come in just from above; it was from the gaps in the door, from the drain hole in the anchor locker that was exposed to waves impacting from below. And from the rode opening from above. The locker was a fairly damp place. 

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3 hours ago, Zonker said:

Going to an electric windlass is a change in your life. 

Tired, the sun is going down and the anchor set didn't feel right. Absolutely no hesitation in trying 2 or 3 more spots to get it right.

With a manual windlass the temptation is strong to just say "it'll be fine..." when you know you shouldn't.

I like having a capstan on the windlass not just a chain gypsy. Very useful for hoisting someone up the mast under power.

I like Muir (now owned by IMTRA)/Lofrans/Ideal/Maxwell.  Not keen on Quick, Lewmar (keep changing models and don't seem to keep spare parts for older ones).

Most of the windlasses require studs or bolts from underneath through a deck. Very few will have external studs like you have on your existing one.


Thanks for the info, Zonker - much appreciated!   But just curious - not sure what you mean by “studs or bolts from underneath through a deck” being different from what I have (other than, of course, the bolt pattern).  Seems like drilling up through the deck and installing bolts wouldn’t be hugely different from what I have (they’re welded to the deck).  Same concept, no?
 

 

3 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

As I have *zero* intention of cutting a hole in my foredeck for a vertical shaft anchor winch if I buy an electric one, as is likely, it'll be a Muir HR1600 or the smaller HR700 if I think it adequate (8 tonne boat).

FKT

Thanks for the info - good food for thought for me.  I’m 33’ and also probably around 8 tons (“tonnes”: different unit, or just different spelling?)

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7 hours ago, Zonker said:

I did not like our Quick brand windlass. The lip seal under the chainwheel (gypsy) failed frequently, allowing water into the motor below. It did get splashed by waves a fair bit, but it was 20' aft of the bow.... When water got it in, it corroded the brush holders which had to replaced at >$100 each + courier fees to whatever part of the world we were in.

The same relay box is used by many windlass manufacturers and it is not very water resistant. I rebuilt ours and sanded down the arcing points a number of times. Water can get in at the 3 small actuating wire tabs you see in the front.

533534-waterproof-solenoid-reversing-con

On our first boat we had a Muir which just worked. There was only a "UP" button and it carried full power load, so no relay box either. Lowering, you just released the clutch and the anchor freewheeled down.

Ah Jeez I just purchased a Quick Rider a few months ago...

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3 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:


Thanks for the info, Zonker - much appreciated!   But just curious - not sure what you mean by “studs or bolts from underneath through a deck” being different from what I have (other than, of course, the bolt pattern).  Seems like drilling up through the deck and installing bolts wouldn’t be hugely different from what I have (they’re welded to the deck).  Same concept, no?
 

 

Thanks for the info - good food for thought for me.  I’m 33’ and also probably around 8 tons (“tonnes”: different unit, or just different spelling?)

1 tonne = 1000kg.

1 ton = 2240 lbs. Or 20 cwt which I painfully remember from when cement came in 1 cwt bags and I was working as a builder's labourer in university breaks.

Not a lot of difference.

I raised my winch up off the deck so as to get a better angle on the chain and a closer to 90 deg wrap on the gypsy. In theory it should also make it relatively simple to fit an adaptor plate if necessary to mount a different winch. We'll see...

 

FKT

IMG_0868.jpg

IMG_0583.jpg

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I thought your boat was metal with studs welded to the deck, not through bolts.

1 american short ton = 2000 lbs. Its what most of them mean when they say a ton. Only the marine world uses 2240 lb long tons.

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19 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Because our boat is quite weight-sensitive in the bow, I decided to use 1/4" G4 chain and 1/2" 3-strand nylon with a Lewmar V700. Much lighter and cheaper electric cable run with 70 feet of wire, much less weight at the pointy end. I use the Lewmar hand-held remote with it and it has worked really well for us. I did have to replace the windlass after 12 years when something went wrong in the gearbox in the middle of a cruise. The good news is the replacement was locally sourced where we were, not expensive, and I kept the original for parts. 

The windlass is not recommended for extreme use but we have used it quite hard, including a 2-month trip around Vancouver Island where we anchored almost every night, and multiple 3-week excursions up to Desolation.

I put the same combo on my J/35 (blasphemy, I know) 2 years ago and have used the hell out of it. I am quite pleased with it and also have used it in fairly difficult conditions and have had zero problems, other than the initial line that came with it would not feed correctly, it bound up constantly. Apparently Lewmar has recommended soaking the line for a day in water to remove some kind of coating. They were supposed to put a sticker on the line to alert you to this. Mine had no sticker and Lewmar sent me a new line & chain gratis.

At the moment, the chain to line splice doesn't always go thru the passage to below, but I sprayed the splice with McLube and it seems to work better but still occasionally jams.

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5 hours ago, Zonker said:

I thought your boat was metal with studs welded to the deck, not through bolts.

1 american short ton = 2000 lbs. Its what most of them mean when they say a ton. Only the marine world uses 2240 lb long tons.

Yup, my boat is metal, with studs welded to deck - they go through the mounting holes in windlass.

Maybe I misunderstood, or my question was confusing.  You wrote, “Most of the windlasses require studs or bolts from underneath through a deck. Very few will have external studs like you have on your existing one.

Just trying to understand what you mean - seems to me a windlass mounted on bolts that were inserted from below through drilled holes would be the same as one mounted on studs welded to the deck?  (By “very few”, maybe you meant very few boats?) 

 

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Re: Muir HR7

12 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

As I have *zero* intention of cutting a hole in my foredeck for a vertical shaft anchor winch if I buy an electric one, as is likely, it'll be a Muir HR1600 or the smaller HR700 if I think it adequate (8 tonne boat).

FKT

Re: Muir HR700 - I find it somehow disappointing that the there is no manual override, to allow you to crank up chain if motor fails. (But does have “manual free fall capability.)

Wonder if that’s common for electric windlasses not to have a manual override to crank up chain?  Seems crazy not to.

Specs: http://www.northwestmarine.ca/assets/images/Manuals/muir-compact_600_700_product-sheet.pdf

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No, very few windlasses. Some will have studs that screw into the underside of the windlass, some will be bolts, but all will need a deck penetration. So they won't be a stud like yours, with a nut on top of the stud. The stud will go through the deck, into the windlass. Then you screw a nut on the underside of the deck to secure the stud.

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On 11/22/2020 at 11:24 AM, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Does anyone have any quick suggestions on electric windlasses?  I know absolutely nothing about brands/models/features.

Today it’s “remove the old Simpson-Lawrence Seatiger 555 manual windlass from the deck day” —winter rebuild.  It’s fairly ancient, but has given great service for decades. I repacked the grease in it 10 years ago before heading to Alaska, but it’s stated to be problematic now.  I’m quite sure it can be reconditioned (amazingly, parts are still available, and there’s even —of course— a fantastic, detailed step-by-step vid on YT of someone re-assembling one)...but I’d like to start at least thinking about an electric windlass, for one day.  Love the simplicity of my windlass, but I can see the desirability/safety factor of being able to very quickly haul up chain and a 20kg/44lb anchor in a big blow, say, at night...

Any general background info on electric windlasses would be great.  Perhaps someone’s seen an article comparing/contrasting different brands/models, or something?

I’ve used pretty much all brands,  on a variety of boats 

they all work ...

choose the fastest retrieval rate 

choose a windlass with a robust stripper arm 

if possible choose a windlass with a horizontal mounted motor ... vertical mounted motors suffer water intrusion 

I’m not familiar with small craft  windlasss 

for midsize to large  yachts Maxwell and lewmar stand the test of time . Good stuff

Quick windlasss are very popular with small bareboat charters  

 

 

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6 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Re: Muir HR7

Re: Muir HR700 - I find it somehow disappointing that the there is no manual override, to allow you to crank up chain if motor fails. (But does have “manual free fall capability.)

Wonder if that’s common for electric windlasses not to have a manual override to crank up chain?  Seems crazy not to.

Specs: http://www.northwestmarine.ca/assets/images/Manuals/muir-compact_600_700_product-sheet.pdf

OK that one is now off of my list. I hadn't looked that closely at it - it's on the marginal side really, IMO. I like to have ground tackle on the heavier side than not given the conditions here.

Must take a good look at the bigger Muir - it says it has a manual mode. Fortunately the manufacturer is only 20 minutes from my place.

I was hoping to get away with a lighter power supply for the smaller winch but not at the cost of no manual option. Pity there's no option to trade off a bit of retrieval speed for better gearing and a smaller motor.

WRT studs Zonker is correct, I have a Muir vertical winch in my shed ATM - the owner has been using my space to strip down & service all their deck gear. It has studs plus the vertical shaft for the motor going through the deck. I see no practical way of mounting it without the deck holes, unless you've a lot of space to make a box on deck. In fact I may take a few measurements before their winch goes back on the boat.

FKT

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Incidentally here are the Muir manuals including base plate diagrams.

https://www.muir.com.au/manuals

A few quick measurements on the vertical capstan job indicate you'd need a box/plinth approx 200mm high by 250mm long and 200mm wide to do an above deck mount. Still need a chain pipe of course. I may make a few MDF mockups as my current winch is already mounted 130mm above the deck and the vertical one has a lower profile, might not be much in it WRT total overall height. Easy enough to fab up a box from 3mm 316.

FKT

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We've been very happy with our 25+ year old Lighthouse 1500.  We once snagged an old fisherman's mooring consisting of about 500 pounds of concrete + a few old anchors.  The windlass hauled all to nearly the surface where I was able to free it.

 

The lighthouse has a manual kedging gear and can freefall down.

 

Highly recommended.

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On 11/22/2020 at 9:46 AM, IStream said:

If you'll be doing so from your main bank, plan on very heavy gauge wire runs to the bow, including a high current breaker, especially if the bank is 12V. You'll definitely want to stay below a 3% voltage drop under worst-case loads on the windlass. The other way to go is with a dedicated battery bank up front, but that generally is more complex and expensive. 

I'm convinced a lot of the complaints people have about their electric windlasses being able to do the job can be traced back to inadequate power...

3% of peak load is overkill.  4/0 is overkill.

Picking a couple of smaller windlasses out of the air, the Lewmar V700 draws 40 amps.  The Lewmar H3 draws 85 amps.

For the H3, you could run #4. 25 feet from the battery you would lose a volt at peak load, about 9%.  If you're running the engine you'll still get more than 12 volts to the motor terminals.  For the V700 you could use #8.

Inadequate power chiefly comes from loose, badly crimped, or failing terminals and failing relay contacts.

Really large wire -- and 4/0 is really large -- poses its own set of problems because it is inflexible and heavy, and puts large mechanical loads on the terminals, posing its own set of problems unless the equipment at both ends is truly designed for cable this large.

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I didn't mention 4/0 because I don't know the location of the batteries, the voltage of the bank, or the model of windlass and its peak load. However, I don't think 3% max drop is overkill. It's when the windlass is near-stalled that you need it most and that's also when you don't want to have excessive voltage drop.

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I used AWG 4 for a 35-foot wiring run for our V700, calculated voltage drop at 40A draw is less than 6%. With the motor running, I'm still over 13V at the windlass.

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My Lewmar V1 has the specified 90 A breaker. I recall my cable run is 30 feet (60 total). They suggest 2 ga.  I certainly didn't install anything larger than specified. When grinding very slowly it eventually trips the breaker. Since torque and current are proportional the wire is not undersized if the breaker will trip under heavy load (and the insulation does not get melty).

4ga. is 5 times smaller than 4/0 ga.

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12 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

3% of peak load is overkill.  4/0 is overkill.

Picking a couple of smaller windlasses out of the air, the Lewmar V700 draws 40 amps.  The Lewmar H3 draws 85 amps.

For the H3, you could run #4. 25 feet from the battery you would lose a volt at peak load, about 9%.  If you're running the engine you'll still get more than 12 volts to the motor terminals.  For the V700 you could use #8.

Inadequate power chiefly comes from loose, badly crimped, or failing terminals and failing relay contacts.

Really large wire -- and 4/0 is really large -- poses its own set of problems because it is inflexible and heavy, and puts large mechanical loads on the terminals, posing its own set of problems unless the equipment at both ends is truly designed for cable this large.

4 aught (0000) wire is huge - 0.46" or 11.7mm conductor diameter (not including insulation). On my previous boat I had a Simpson Lawrence Horizon 1500 that drew 85 amps at recovery load. The suggested wiring for a 60' wire run (30' there, 30' back on a 37' boat) was AWG 2* (0.257" or 6.5mm conductor diameter). In the bow, under deck, I had a waterproof junction box with glands that supported the heavy wires. The wires from the j-box to the windless were #8 as I recall. Very occasionally I would trip the breaker if I was really hauling hard - the windless was capable of 1800 lbs pull - but the wires never even got warm, so the breaker was just doing its job. For my current boat I am contemplating a much smaller installation similar to that described by Ish above. You really have to think of a windlass as a complete system.

*according to ABYC E-11, a windlass is a non-critical load and up to 10% voltage drop is acceptable (things like nav lights and electronics are critical loads).

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18 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

OK that one is now off of my list. I hadn't looked that closely at it - it's on the marginal side really, IMO. I like to have ground tackle on the heavier side than not given the conditions here.

Must take a good look at the bigger Muir - it says it has a manual mode. Fortunately the manufacturer is only 20 minutes from my place.

I was hoping to get away with a lighter power supply for the smaller winch but not at the cost of no manual option. Pity there's no option to trade off a bit of retrieval speed for better gearing and a smaller motor.

WRT studs Zonker is correct, I have a Muir vertical winch in my shed ATM - the owner has been using my space to strip down & service all their deck gear. It has studs plus the vertical shaft for the motor going through the deck. I see no practical way of mounting it without the deck holes, unless you've a lot of space to make a box on deck. In fact I may take a few measurements before their winch goes back on the boat.

FKT

Holy fucking shit - that Muir HR 1600 is expensive.  I probably already knew that, but now I won’t forget:  https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=3882526

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5 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Holy fucking shit - that Muir HR 1600 is expensive.  I probably already knew that, but now I won’t forget:  https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=3882526

Yeah it is - $2700 AUD to me. One reason why it's not on my foredeck yet. Plus the bigger start battery, wiring runs and breakers needed. I've seriously considered running 240V AC forward then an AC-DC transformer to avoid heavy cabling. 20A @ 24V is pretty easy, but not quite enough - need 60A to be safe. So probably heavy cable but I've a reel of 25mm^2 tinned copper which should be adequate.

I can fit one of the vertical jobs with the motor above deck if I weld up a plinth/box 220mm high. Rough dims 220 high x 200 wide c 340 long if you're interested. Of course the chain pipe won't line up with the existing one for sure - that would be too easy. As the c/l of the gypsy is lower than my existing winch the overall height increase is less than it seems - existing winch base is elevated 130mm off of the deck now.

All a bit of an expensive PITA really.

FKT

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My boat came with a Lofrans.  Chain gypsy with a warping drum.  It was at least 10 years old and hadn't been used in 7.  When I was getting close to launching, I contacted the company to inquire about a manual.  A service rep got back to me in a matter of hours, to tell me that that model (Arion) is no longer being produced, but here is an installation guide/service manual anyways, with a few updated part numbers.  Then he reccommended what to do in this windlass' case.  Then he checked back a few days later to see if everything went okay.  He didn't once try to up sell me on anything. 

Absolutely fantastic customer service experience.

There wasn't and hasn't been any problem with my particular unit.  10/10, would buy another.    

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My boat didn't have an anchor winch when I purchased it. Pulling up an anchor and chain by hand gets old fast, so I installed a Muir Storm 1250.

It never let me down.

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Well, the hell with an electric windlass - at least for now!  After speaking to Simpson-Lawrence windlass guru John McMaster in Scotland (www.slspares.co.uk) the other day, he talked me into waiting to buy a set of rebuild parts for my windlass until I managed to disassemble my SL Seatiger 555.  (He said he’s dealt with a few over the years that he wasn’t able to fully disassemble.)  Helps to have a friend with a machine shop and great skills to help!  Stripping paint and cleaning out the rest of the grease for a rebuild.

At the very least, fully reconditioned, at some point it should be worth something to someone if/when I sell it to defray the cost of upgrading to electric...this venerable workhorse is 43 years old and only started giving a bit of trouble recently: time to rebuild! :-)

566B8267-C07A-49A6-97AB-E6BC34F9D00E.jpeg

F05ED6A8-321A-424C-9D43-679AA2EF686B.jpeg

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36 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Well, the hell with an electric windlass - at least for now!  After speaking to Simpson-Lawrence windlass guru John McMaster in Scotland (www.slspares.co.uk) the other day, he talked me into waiting to buy a set of rebuild parts for my windlass until I managed to disassemble my SL Seatiger 555.  (He said he’s dealt with a few over the years that he wasn’t able to fully disassemble.)  Helps to have a friend with a machine shop and great skills to help!  Stripping paint and cleaning out the rest of the grease for a rebuild.

At the very least, fully reconditioned, at some point it should be worth something to someone if/when I sell it to defray the cost of upgrading to electric...this venerable workhorse is 43 years old and only started giving a bit of trouble recently: time to rebuild! :-)

566B8267-C07A-49A6-97AB-E6BC34F9D00E.jpeg

F05ED6A8-321A-424C-9D43-679AA2EF686B.jpeg

I've rebuilt 2 similar model Muir Hercules winches. They're pretty simple devices. Both of mine needed machine shop work due to previous owners abusing the hell out of the winches but were quite restoreable.

Still planning on fitting an electric winch myself but only because I'm bone idle. I've downloaded the deck templates to see which one will fit with least aggravation.

FKT

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1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I've rebuilt 2 similar model Muir Hercules winches. They're pretty simple devices. Both of mine needed machine shop work due to previous owners abusing the hell out of the winches but were quite restoreable.

Still planning on fitting an electric winch myself but only because I'm bone idle. I've downloaded the deck templates to see which one will fit with least aggravation.

FKT

Go big. Go strong.

GURlFdqrlow5Hpk8jxFYSdsZLPDLHKMUpVmdIgKq

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Just now, Ishmael said:

Go big. Go strong.

GURlFdqrlow5Hpk8jxFYSdsZLPDLHKMUpVmdIgKq

I admire your thinking but don't think my battery bank can handle that one.

FKT

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It's all a matter of gearing. Just go a little slower :)

Actually I'm sure it's hydraulic because fishing boat. Easthope hasn't been in business since 1980 so if that picture isn't too old it's a testament to their durability and simplicity.

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

She'll pretty-up real nice.

I think so, too, but it can be hard to convince yourself to recondition something this old.  I repainted it with good 2-part paint, and repacked the grease in it 10 years ago, just prior to going up to Alaska.  (I was too chicken to disassemble and rebuild it then, for fear it would delay or stop departure.  It definitely would have!  Now it’s time to do it all properly.  So grateful to have John and SL Spares as a resource.  When we spoke on the phone he said, well, I’m 64 and want to retire.  He’s looking for someone to buy the business, at least, but I thought to myself, shit, I’d better get on with this while the world’s foremost SL Seatiger windlass guru is running the show! :-)

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2 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

I think so.  I repainted it with good 2-part paint, and repacked the grease in it 10 years ago, just prior to going up to Alaska.  (I was too chicken to disassemble and rebuild it then, for fear it would delay or stop departure.  It definitely would have!  Now it’s time to do it all properly.  So grateful to have John and SL Spares as a resource.  When we spoke on the phone he said, well, I’m 64 and want to retire.  He’s looking for someone to buy the business, at least, but I thought to myself, shit, I’d better get on with this while the world’s foremost SL Seatiger windlass guru is running the show! :-)

He and Tony over at winchspares.com need to join forces and find some bright kid to take over their business as a side gig with a website and a storage shed. I wonder if Abbey would be interested in making a few bucks after hours when she's not off riding her motorcycle. Sure, she won't have the decades of experience but at least she'd keep the parts available to us old farts.

http://abbeyboatbuilder.co.uk/

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41 minutes ago, IStream said:

He and Tony over at winchspares.com need to join forces and find some bright kid to take over their business as a side gig with a website and a storage shed. I wonder if Abbey would be interested in making a few bucks after hours when she's not off riding her motorcycle. Sure, she won't have the decades of experience but at least she'd keep the parts available to us old farts.

http://abbeyboatbuilder.co.uk/

In the small world of spares for old boat gear, a year or so ago, I contacted winchspares.com after getting some great advice to go to them for my Lewmar self-tailer parts needs.  In my email exchange with Tony, he asked for my address for the shipping.  After I replied, he replied with, “oh, so you must know Gord and Topless (a boat name)?”  I do.  Small world!  Turns out he used to have a business in Vancouver, BC, and then Chinese and other overseas competition forced him to close up.  (He moved back to England and runs his new gig from there.). So that’s how he knows people I know!   Everything ordered came promptly and fits perfectly - great folks!  His invoice to me showed a discount, with the note, “Buy me a beer when we meet.”  Love it!  (And I love that Jeff f’ing Bezos wasn’t involved in the transaction for a cut in any way, shape, or form. :-) )

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3 hours ago, Zonker said:

It's all a matter of gearing. Just go a little slower :)

Actually I'm sure it's hydraulic because fishing boat. Easthope hasn't been in business since 1980 so if that picture isn't too old it's a testament to their durability and simplicity.

2013, Zeballos.

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4 hours ago, Zonker said:

It's all a matter of gearing. Just go a little slower :)

Actually I'm sure it's hydraulic because fishing boat. Easthope hasn't been in business since 1980 so if that picture isn't too old it's a testament to their durability and simplicity.

I did think of fitting a hydraulic winch but it all got too hard. Besides unless you run an engine driven pump you're no better off, in fact worse WRT power losses.

That and the thought of the cleanup when - not if - a major hydraulic leak under pressure happened turned me off the idea.

FKT

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8 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Keep your existing manual and get one of these 

 

BD05FB63-124E-43D3-8567-5CEB4CCA9C76.png

I've thought about something like that for a powered sheet/halyard winch.

FKT

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Around ten years ago I found a SL Hyspeed510 for the Adams 36, it’s like the Seatiger, but with a chain drive inside not gears.

it was new when I found it, ex display, and it has been fine for a six ton boat with all 8mm chain and a Sarca excel.

The Valiant has a Muir horizontal electric winch and  all 10mm chain on a big Rocna, no complaints there either.

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1 minute ago, olaf hart said:

Around ten years ago I found a SL Hyspeed510 for the Adams 36, it’s like the Seatiger, but with a chain drive inside not gears.

it was new when I found it, ex display, and it has been fine for a six ton boat with all 8mm chain and a Sarca excel.

The Valiant has a Muir horizontal electric winch and  all 10mm chain on a big Rocna, no complaints there either.

I've just been fooling around with a template for the Muir HR1600 horizontal to see how much work I'd have to do to fit it to my boat. It looks like the chain pipe is 50mm forward and 30mm closer to the centre line than the Hercules which was a bit of a surprise - I thought it'd be further out. As I used 65mm camlocks (2 1/2" NB) I may just need an adaptor plate with a bolt hole/stud pattern to suit the old mounts and the new winch. Not much in that, bit of plate and some welding.

Got to go out to the boat tomorrow to check stuff after these string winds so I'll take some more measurements.

FKT

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Lofrans and Muir probably best quality.  Lewmar best value.

We have the big horizontal Lofrans.  Imatra sells good relay kits and the good Kiwi foot switches.  You can do a cheep FOB setup to make it wireless with Amazon components.

Ditto on power to it make sure as little voltage drop as possible.

Take time to look at layout and servicing.  Vertical units are very clean but can be a bitch to work on.  A sunbrella cover will keep most like new.

A hand break unit will eliminate alot or run time even if it cost a little more.

As El B said it's in the watermaker catagory of life changing while Cruising.

 

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On 12/5/2020 at 6:40 AM, SASSAFRASS said:

Lofrans and Muir probably best quality.  Lewmar best value.

We have the big horizontal Lofrans.  Imatra sells good relay kits and the good Kiwi foot switches.  You can do a cheep FOB setup to make it wireless with Amazon components.

Ditto on power to it make sure as little voltage drop as possible.

Take time to look at layout and servicing.  Vertical units are very clean but can be a bitch to work on.  A sunbrella cover will keep most like new.

A hand break unit will eliminate alot or run time even if it cost a little more.

As El B said it's in the watermaker catagory of life changing while Cruising.

 

Well, I’ve taken a step further toward the dark side.  :-)  I spent a good while yesterday making a fairly accurate cardboard mounting template for a Lofrans Cayman horizontal.

First impression, my old S-L Seatiger is fucking beefy.  12” centres for the fore and aft mounting studs, 6” port to starboard.  (And those are 3/4” studs!)  Next pic shows the mounting template for the Cayman, with 3/8” bolts.    Looks like it’ll maybe *just* work - it’s ass end is close to the inner forestry.  The tricky bit is that the hawse holes don’t line up exactly - why would it be easy?  I’m going to mock up a mounting pad (windlass would be mounted to a pad mounted to the deck) and see if I can get a closer fit.  I’d also love an actual 100% accurate template - I scaled this one up from the one on Lofrans’ site...you don’t get a real life-size one unless you buy the windlass (comes with it).  Wonder if the local marine store would lend me one for a day from a windlass package if I go there hat in hand :-)  Or lend me a windlass for an afternoon...

I’m trying to convince myself this is worth $2000+ by remembering very deep Alaskan anchorages, cranking up 200’ of chain and 20 kg anchor regularly...and my ambition to cruise north again, and also further west out the Aleutians with maybe a big-ass heavy Fisherman anchor for good measure for deep kelp and big blows, and not wanting to haul everything up by hand anymore...but trading off much greater mechanical complexity and reliance on this in exchange for...greater ease?  Really..?!  Have I lost it? :-)

47B35F26-7F64-4DCA-939B-6163AA1C31AB.jpeg

7AA990C4-BE64-4187-B852-C7075C0CED38.jpeg

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1 minute ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Well, I’ve taken a step further toward the dark side.  :-)  I spent a good while yesterday making a fairly accurate cardboard mounting template for a Lofrans Cayman horizontal.

First impression, my Seatiger is fucking beefy.  12” centres for the fore and aft mounting bolts, 6” port starboard.  (And those are 3/4” studs!)  Next pic shows the mounting template for the Cayman, with 3/8” bolts.    Looks like it’ll maybe *just* work - the tricky bit is that the hawse holes don’t like up exactly - why would it be easy?  I’m going to mock up a mounting pad (windlass would be mounted to a pad mounted to the deck) and see if I can get a closer fit.  I’d also love an actual 100% accurate template - I scaled this one up from the one on Lofrans’ site...you don’t get a real life-size one unless you buy the windlass (comes with it).  Wonder if the local marine store would lend me one for a day from a windlass package if I go there hat in hand :-)

I’m trying to convince myself this is worth $2000+ by remembering very deep Alaskan anchorages, cranking up 200’ of chain and 20 kg anchor regularly...and my ambition to cruise north again, and also further west out the Aleutians with maybe a big-ass heavy Fisherman anchor for good measure for deep kelp and big blows, and not wanting to haul everything up by hand anymore...but trading off much greater mechanical complexity and reliance on this in exchange for...greater ease?  Really..?!  Have I lost it? :-)

47B35F26-7F64-4DCA-939B-6163AA1C31AB.jpeg

7AA990C4-BE64-4187-B852-C7075C0CED38.jpeg

No argument from me - I ordered a Muir HR1600 last week. My circumstance is a bit different - I'm lazy.

And yeah the template - which you can download off of the Muir Web site - shows that I have to move the new winch 50mm aft and 30mm to port if I want the chain to have a direct vertical drop off of the gypsy. Not sure it's necessary as I fitted 65mm diameter camlocks so it's not a tight fit. Chain might feed in/out just fine as-is as the manual winch is mounted 130mm off the deck.

And the bolt pattern is of course different.

Current plan - make an adaptor plate with the old bolt pattern of welded studs going down and the new bolt pattern welded studs pointing up. I've ordered the stainless plate already. Winch won't arrive until January some time - there's quite a backlog. I'm betting it's more like February.

Not sure what you're doing about power but my current plan is to fit a decent deep cycle AGM battery forward and charge it via a 30A DC-DC charger off of the house bank. Got the charger on the way. This way I avoid having to run cables that need to carry 100A on a return loop of some 14-15 metres. 30A capacity cable is easier to run & cheaper. The heavy stuff will only need to be maybe 4m return loop.

Now about the helm operation...

FKT

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16 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Well, I’ve taken a step further toward the dark side.  :-)  I spent a good while yesterday making a fairly accurate cardboard mounting template for a Lofrans Cayman horizontal.

First impression, my old S-L Seatiger is fucking beefy.  12” centres for the fore and aft mounting studs, 6” port to starboard.  (And those are 3/4” studs!)  Next pic shows the mounting template for the Cayman, with 3/8” bolts.    Looks like it’ll maybe *just* work - it’s ass end is close to the inner forestry.  The tricky bit is that the hawse holes don’t line up exactly - why would it be easy?  I’m going to mock up a mounting pad (windlass would be mounted to a pad mounted to the deck) and see if I can get a closer fit.  I’d also love an actual 100% accurate template - I scaled this one up from the one on Lofrans’ site...you don’t get a real life-size one unless you buy the windlass (comes with it).  Wonder if the local marine store would lend me one for a day from a windlass package if I go there hat in hand :-)  Or lend me a windlass for an afternoon...

I’m trying to convince myself this is worth $2000+ by remembering very deep Alaskan anchorages, cranking up 200’ of chain and 20 kg anchor regularly...and my ambition to cruise north again, and also further west out the Aleutians with maybe a big-ass heavy Fisherman anchor for good measure for deep kelp and big blows, and not wanting to haul everything up by hand anymore...but trading off much greater mechanical complexity and reliance on this in exchange for...greater ease?  Really..?!  Have I lost it? :-)

 

 

Just buy it. If it doesn't fit, take it back.

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35 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Just buy it. If it doesn't fit, take it back.

Damn you and your simple, great ideas :-)  Makes total sense...walk in with credit card, walk out with windlass.  I like it.

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43 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

No argument from me - I ordered a Muir HR1600 last week. My circumstance is a bit different - I'm lazy.

And yeah the template - which you can download off of the Muir Web site - shows that I have to move the new winch 50mm aft and 30mm to port if I want the chain to have a direct vertical drop off of the gypsy. Not sure it's necessary as I fitted 65mm diameter camlocks so it's not a tight fit. Chain might feed in/out just fine as-is as the manual winch is mounted 130mm off the deck.

And the bolt pattern is of course different.

Current plan - make an adaptor plate with the old bolt pattern of welded studs going down and the new bolt pattern welded studs pointing up. I've ordered the stainless plate already. Winch won't arrive until January some time - there's quite a backlog. I'm betting it's more like February.

Not sure what you're doing about power but my current plan is to fit a decent deep cycle AGM battery forward and charge it via a 30A DC-DC charger off of the house bank. Got the charger on the way. This way I avoid having to run cables that need to carry 100A on a return loop of some 14-15 metres. 30A capacity cable is easier to run & cheaper. The heavy stuff will only need to be maybe 4m return loop.

Now about the helm operation...

FKT

Good question about power -haven’t gotten there yet.  Interesting idea - great food for thought for me - don’t know much about DC-DC chargers.  Wonder if I could fit a small AGM somewhere forward-ish.

Re: helm operation, presumably that just means running small gauge wire aft from solenoid (?) to a monetary 3-position switch?  Large wire not needed, right?

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38 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Good question about power -haven’t gotten there yet.  Interesting idea - great food for thought for me - don’t know much about DC-DC chargers.  Wonder if I could fit a small AGM somewhere forward-ish.

Re: helm operation, presumably that just means running small gauge wire aft from solenoid (?) to a monetary 3-position switch?  Large wire not needed, right?

That’s the story on my boat with a horizontal Muir, there is usually a set of remote contacts in the OEM relay.


If I was wiring it again I would go with the remote battery,  and a current limited DC charger, just remember that running the engine will not fully compensate for the windlass loads and go for a big battery

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2 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Good question about power -haven’t gotten there yet.  Interesting idea - great food for thought for me - don’t know much about DC-DC chargers.  Wonder if I could fit a small AGM somewhere forward-ish.

Re: helm operation, presumably that just means running small gauge wire aft from solenoid (?) to a monetary 3-position switch?  Large wire not needed, right?

I ordered one of these:

http://www.cruzpro.com/sbs.html

I've got a NMEA0183 transducer off of them, it's working perfectly and tech support has been good (I wanted to send the data to an ethernet single port terminal server).

Yeah only need control wire back to the helm station, not heavy cable.

Olaf is right, you need to size your battery for the load. Many ways to deal with this issue, fact is I've got a pile of lead bricks as trimming ballast up forward right now so swapping some of those for a decent battery doesn't alter the weight distribution but does cut down on heavy cable runs. Your boat is likely totally different.

FKT

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I would do the same as FKT with a adapter plate.  Also big one I think is get it off the deck and plate with a thick UHMW block, 3/4 or 1".  The death of the windlass is corrosion. Of the fab work for a plate is too much then I would epoxy fill the the old bolts holes and hause pipe, still use a doubler though.  If plastic is hard to come by a good tropical hardwood will work, something like purple heart is dirt cheep.

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6 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Ours was a bit tricky with the bow sprit bit this is what I did.

IMG_0302.JPG

IMG_0303.JPG

That's a really nice elegant setup. I like the way you used a roller to get the chain to feed onto your gypsy through a 90 deg bend too. I'll keep that in mind as a possible solution if I come across a similar need.

With a steel boat I welded a stub on to take the bowsprit and free up the foredeck clutter. I welded 2 pieces of galvanised parallel flange channel down to raise my winch up to where I wanted it. That's going to make swapping to a new winch *relatively* painless.

FKT

 

IMG_0868.jpg

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20 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

That's a really nice elegant setup. I like the way you used a roller to get the chain to feed onto your gypsy through a 90 deg bend too. I'll keep that in mind as a possible solution if I come across a similar need.

With a steel boat I welded a stub on to take the bowsprit and free up the foredeck clutter. I welded 2 pieces of galvanised parallel flange channel down to raise my winch up to where I wanted it. That's going to make swapping to a new winch *relatively* painless.

FKT

 

IMG_0868.jpg

I just looked closer at Sass’s set up - you’re right: very elegant set up.  I had to look close (small phone screen) to see the rollers. Very nicely done.  Nice set up you have, too, with the cam lock fittings.

BTW, what’s the deal with the hawse hole for the rope drum (on your boat, and in general(“)?  I don’t quite get that.  On my boat, only one hole, for the chain gypsy side.   (I suppose it makes sense with a two-compartment chain locker, which I don’t have...another project coming up...).

I more see the purpose of it in cases where you have two chain gypsies (as in attached pic, Iron Bark - builder/former owner T. Robertson probably wanted two big anchors, with chain, at the ready, while cruising very challenging places like Antarctica, Greenland, etc. Hisbdual-gypsy windlass is a custom Maxwell 1500,)  But for rope - I guess you tail it on the winch drum, leave the coil in the deck, and then fish it down the hawse hole after the anchor is in?  It obviously won’t self-feed down like chain does.  (Wondering aloud now if I should provision for that as well.)

Iron Bark specs/pic source: http://iron-bark.blogspot.com/2019/08/iron-bark-is-for-sale.html?m=1

F81A580E-374A-43F4-8693-D3805271CCBC.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

BTW, what’s the deal with the hawse hole for the rope drum (on your boat, and in general(“)?  I don’t quite get that.  On my boat, only one hole, for the chain gypsy side.   (I suppose it makes sense with a two-compartment chain locker, which I don’t have...another project coming up...).

Ah, it was just my OCD penchant for symmetry. I've never actually used it yet, I keep it capped off. The cap has an eye bolt through it with the anchor rode attached so if I ever do need it in a hurry, just pop the cap, attach the chain to the already fitted swivel/shackle on the anchor, and deploy.

There are 2 anchor rode bins under there and the port one has 20m of 8mm chain attached to 60m of 12mm octo-plait nylon. I keep a 20kg  CQR on the port roller and a 15kg Sarca Excel with 50m of 8mm chain on the stbd roller. I'm thinking of adding maybe 30m of 8mm stainless chain to that rode so as to save galvanising wear on the bit I use most often.

FKT

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My knuckles hurt just looking at that simpson, so many bangs on the old boat.  I did see a pretty nice retro a Canadian guy did, he put a coupling on one of the baring shafts and a small Hydraulic motor.  Probably wouldn't do unless hydraulics were used elsewhere but it was a clean setup. Could probably do a sprocket and electric drive on yours to get enough gear ratio. Can't remember bid you already bought a electric one.

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2 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

My knuckles hurt just looking at that simpson, so many bangs on the old boat.  I did see a pretty nice retro a Canadian guy did, he put a coupling on one of the baring shafts and a small Hydraulic motor.  Probably wouldn't do unless hydraulics were used elsewhere but it was a clean setup. Could probably do a sprocket and electric drive on yours to get enough gear ratio. Can't remember bid you already bought a electric one.

I did in fact add an electric motor & chain drive to the spare Muir winch I have. It ended up quite a neat setup  with one bolt needed to revert to fully manual use. Currently it's sitting on my work bench.

In the end I decided that weatherproofing the chain, sprockets and motor, while do-able, was going to annoy me a lot. So I bought an electric winch.

Which will present a whole new set of problems...

FKT

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I've had good luck with the horizontal, completely sealed the motor cover, use 4200 or 291 when I assemble, little pain to knife out for service but it's always bone dry.  Have to paint annually as it pretty old and need to de carbon motor and lube brushes but otherwise not too bad.

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Looking more and more like the Lofrans Cayman will fit without crazy modifications to the existing mounting area.  But we’ll see.

I cut two 3/4”/19mm [Canada is very confusing - officially a metric country, there’s also an undue amount of ‘murican influence, so lumber is typically all imperial measurements...] sheets of plywood as a mounting pad mock up.  The existing studs that are welded to the deck are 1 1/2”/38mm long, so the only way to get a flat base to mount a (*possible* :-) ) new electric windlass on is to use the studs to mount one piece of ply, and “bury” the nuts in a second layer of ply.  I’d use UWMW, etc for actual mounting.

It appears that the Cayman template will line up with the hawse hole.  WTF?!?  Next step is to go to marine store to compare the life-size template provided with the windlass to the one I scaled up and made based on the smaller drawing they have on their site.

Next question: cut a second hawse hole in the deck for a possible second anchor rode?  I’ve never anchored with two anchors before —but I guess that’s not the point.  (Or been in a situation where I needed to drop a second anchor because the first one is lost, etc.) Depending on where you are, and the conditions, however, I suppose it does make sense to have a second anchor rigged up and ready to go.  If I’m gonna fit out the boat for the Aleutians and such hard, nasty places, might as well think it through carefully :-).  Which will now mean building in a partition in the chain locker - rope/chain.

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Anyone else have a partitioned anchor locker? What about fitting two anchors on the bow rollers? I’m somehow totally skeptical I even can.
 
Compare the bow roller set up on Iron Bark, a seriously well set up go-anywhere boat, to mine. How could I possible squeeze two anchors on there?  (Or is it that you don’t typically have two anchors on there, amd you’d typically drop on, then the other, so there’s never typically be two there at once?). I think I’ve only ever really seen two anchors on boat with a dolphin striker/bow platform, with one roller rather further aft than the other?
 

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:
Anyone else have a partitioned anchor locker? What about fitting two anchors on the bow rollers? I’m somehow totally skeptical I even can.
 
Compare the bow roller set up on Iron Bark, a seriously well set up go-anywhere boat, to mine. How could I possible squeeze two anchors on there?  (Or is it that you don’t typically have two anchors on there, amd you’d typically drop on, then the other, so there’s never typically be two there at once?). I think I’ve only ever really seen two anchors on boat with a dolphin striker/bow platform, with one roller rather further aft than the other?
 

A4B22E1D-683F-48D3-B880-647AD0EE0372.jpeg

3C5BD9AF-4293-41E7-83A4-B5757B10B69B.jpeg

Yes I've got a partitioned anchor locker.

And yes I carry 2 anchors mounted ready to deploy. Well technically the port one needs its rode attached but that's a 2 minute job.

Agree that you'd have difficulty doing it unless you had some form of stub widening the roller space. I wouldn't worry about it on your hull, really. It's more something those of us with bowsprits can do pretty easily, so why not...

FKT

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11 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Looking more and more like the Lofrans Cayman will fit without crazy modifications to the existing mounting area.  But we’ll see.

I cut two 3/4”/19mm [Canada is very confusing - officially a metric country, there’s also an undue amount of ‘murican influence, so lumber is typically all imperial measurements...] sheets of plywood as a mounting pad mock up.  

8dul3p166k561.jpg

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On 12/15/2020 at 11:12 PM, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:
Anyone else have a partitioned anchor locker? What about fitting two anchors on the bow rollers? I’m somehow totally skeptical I even can.

I don't know much since I just have a Danforth on my 26' boat since that is what the anchor locker is designed for and nothing else will fit.  Works fine in the Mississippi mud/

But the received wisdom is that no one uses Bahamian moors any more and that, if you carry a backup anchor and rode, you can do so below.  With modern anchors (Rocna, Mantus, Spade, etc) the only reason to use a second anchor is if the first has to be abandoned for some reason.

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