Gouvernail

J-80 mainsheet systems

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What do you have on the cockpit floor??

Kicking  it to uncleat is unacceptable .

I want something I can play easily. Ours is especially un useable with the traveler car pulled to weather 

 

please be very specific  about what you have ... photos rock!! 

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The J World 80's had a continuous traveler control line with small cams on the cockpit sides.  After tacking, you popped the line out of the leeward cam with a tug on the line and then pulled the car up to weather.  It was simple and seemed to work well.  I don't remember how the mainsheet was run - and that's probably what you're asking about.

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I’ve never seen a j/80 without the basic traveler/swivel cam base arrangement..

 I’m pretty sure it is mandated by class rules/build specifications. 
 

https://www.j80.org/images/pdf/J80-Standard-Building-Specifications.pdf

https://www.j80.org/images/pdf/J802018_CR29012018.pdf


Perhaps putting an angled shim under the cam cleat in the swivel base would make it easier to release? Or maybe taking the captive fairlead off the top of the cam cleat so the line can be flicked out of the cam easier. I know exactly the problem you mention. Definitely don’t want to be relying on kicking it to release it. 

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But use a harken cam. I never could uncleat those spinlock pt2s or whatever they are called.

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I haven’t gone down the docks to visit the other 24 J-80s at our club yet. 
I posted this to get some “out of town” feedback before copying somebody else here.

the boat i am sailing has a full size Original Harken Hexaratchet on a harken swivel base that looks like it is  sized for the Harken ratchet I have been using for forty years on my lasers’ mainsheets. 
 

there is about a 3/4” to 1” high riser mounted under the 150 cam cleat plus there is a little piece of angled plastic under that 150 cleat.

With  the traveler way to leeward (WHERE I NEVER HAVE IT) the system almost works ok.

With the traveler to weather the mainsheet is hard to get out of the cleat and even if it comes out of the cleat the block is so big it pulls against the frame of the swivel and pretty much cleats the line.

I asked the fellow who owns the boat what he thinks about the mainsheet and he said, “I have always had a to kick it. It was that way when I  got it.”

My mission is to make the mainsheet system as easy to use as class rules allow. 
As I am borrowing the boat, I will be giving it back looking and working so nicely he wants me to mooch again. 
 

I also won’t change anything until I show him my plan and if he doesn’t like it .... off it goes!!

 

still looking forward advice!! 

I will post photos and thank whoever had the idea I followed when I get done. 

 

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This is the standard setup:

j80-mainsheet-backstay-lg.gif?n=3492

what do you have to kick to release?  With that angle it would seem that cleating would be more of an issue.

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6 hours ago, sailman said:

This is the standard setup:

j80-mainsheet-backstay-lg.gif?n=3492

what do you have to kick to release?  With that angle it would seem that cleating would be more of an issue.

One has to kick the mainsheet UP to release it when sailing at certain heel angles or when the traveler is cranked up to weather In the diagram you posted from Harken, picture that the traveler is dropped slightly to leeward. Look at the angle of the sheet and geometry of the block labeled 2680 on the swivel base. Now picture what that block will do if the traveler car goes all the way to the windward side (port side), but the swivel is still be sheeted in the same position. The base block leans over to bind up with the cam cleat, and makes it very difficult to release without pulling nearly directly up. 

 

Maybe try a smaller block on the base swivel? Or a larger base swivel with a longer arm? I don't know if doubling up the springs on the base block would prevent it from tipping towards the cleat..

 

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I believe you can get a lower profile cam cleat swivel.  That should help getting the angle to release higher.

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@Captain Jack Sparrow nailed a better description of the problem. J-80 needs a lot of weather car position and the pulley leans against the arm of the swivel and,  even when uncleated , it may as well still be cleated 

I looked at the J-80 in my shop for repairs and it has the same set up as the one i am mooching.

another J-80 owner stopped by this afternoon and told me his boat is rigged the  same and “Dad likes to turn off the ratchet.”

 

he is considering adding a longer shackle below the pulley to see if it helps. 
 

now that I know it isn’t just me having problems I am on a mission to solve this 
 

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Can the cleat base be extended so the cleat on 144 is further away from the ratchet block?

 

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Back in the day, when I singlehanded an 80, I swapped the positions of blocks 262I and 2622 to keep the purchases closer together to make it easier to get around. This had the added advantage of keeping block 2680 away from.cleat regardless of the position of the sheet on the traveler. Uncleating was never an issue and there was still plenty of purchase to trim on.

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5 hours ago, Varan said:

Back in the day, when I singlehanded an 80, I swapped the positions of blocks 262I and 2622 to keep the purchases closer together to make it easier to get around. This had the added advantage of keeping block 2680 away from.cleat regardless of the position of the sheet on the traveler. Uncleating was never an issue and there was still plenty of purchase to trim on.

So you moved the 6:1 onto the fixed position and the cleated portion on the traveler car?

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On 11/28/2020 at 2:52 AM, Gouvernail said:

@Captain Jack Sparrow nailed a better description of the problem. J-80 needs a lot of weather car position and the pulley leans against the arm of the swivel and,  even when uncleated , it may as well still be cleated 

I looked at the J-80 in my shop for repairs and it has the same set up as the one i am mooching.

another J-80 owner stopped by this afternoon and told me his boat is rigged the  same and “Dad likes to turn off the ratchet.”

 

he is considering adding a longer shackle below the pulley to see if it helps. 
 

now that I know it isn’t just me having problems I am on a mission to solve this 
 

Perhaps the arm on the swivel is bent (upwards) and needs to be straightened?  just a thought.

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We put on a smaller ratchet... the one with the slider off my laser.

We changed to 3/8 New England salsa. .

So far, it works fine 

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Salsa, or Buzz line. I used Maffioli but just did not see the advantage for the price.

As for cleats, the Harken 150 can bind up under heavy load. The spin lock un cleats easier but the sheet knuckles up at the cleat when you smoke it at the windward mark. 

I've been tempted to put an Oxen self cleating laser style ratchet block in just to see if I could hold it dinghy style.

 

 

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Here's a picture of the Harken block we have on 554.  I sail in Hawaii, with plenty of wind almost all the time and have never had to kick the sheet to uncleat it.  If you are dealing with extremely high sheet loads, maybe you need a little more vang to balance it out.

J80 mainsheet block.jpg

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14 hours ago, charis said:

Here's a picture of the Harken block we have on 554.  I sail in Hawaii, with plenty of wind almost all the time and have never had to kick the sheet to uncleat it.  If you are dealing with extremely high sheet loads, maybe you need a little more vang to balance it out.

J80 mainsheet block.jpg

The photo revels your secret: that you are lucky enough to have a dog on board to handle the difficult stuff.

Most sailors lack that advantage.  They just sail with people who haven't even't learnt how to use their front legs, and instead balance precariously on their back legs.

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Last Saturday we sailed all afternoon in EXTREMELY puffy variable breeze that at some time came from every direction and varied from near zero to a steady 15 after the east wind from the approaching front finally took charge .

it wasn’t also interesting as the temperature would rise into the eighties with puffs from the south snd dive into the fifties whenever the winds from the north and east took over. 
 

Also, for most of the afternoon the wind at the southeast part of our sailing area was from the south, the wind at the far north west was east or north, and the center of the sailing area was full of confusing swirls. 
 

as there was no race, we decided to sail in the confusing air snd try to learn how to adjust the sail trim for the many changes. 
 

I am pretty certain I have arrived at the summit

 

 

 

502DD6CA-42CE-4D1B-955D-DDDA1B21088E.gif

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