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Burning Man

Will "Wokeness" will tear the Dem party apart?

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Interesting Op Ed here:  https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2020/11/24/woke-identity-politics-progressive-economic-bernie-sanders-column/6386871002/

There are some really salient points here that we should all be aware of and heed.  

 

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I saw identity politics tear the Occupy movement apart. Economic leftists must ditch wokeness.

Democrats can challenge the populist GOP for working-class votes, but they have to focus on what unites us, rather than identities that divide us.

The traditional left has the biggest beef with identity politics — although they might not have completely figured this out yet.

Complaining about “woke” “social justice” movements centered on racial, gender, and other identities has long been every conservative’s favorite sport. Ben Shapiro does it virtually every day. The heterodox writer James Lindsay has literally drawn up an entire line of flash cards breaking down the various contemporary left-wing meanings for terms like “racism.” President Donald Trump — who once famously retweeted Lindsay — recently signed an executive order banning within the federal workforce the teachings of many forms of critical race theory, which assigns praise or blame to members of a particular race solely because they are of that race.

I lean right myself, in the interest of full disclosure, and recently wrote a critique of a major popular text of critical race theory, Robin DiAngelo’s best-selling "White Fragility."

However, if anyone truly clashes with modern wokeness, it is the traditional class-focused left. The idea that race, gender, trans vs. “cis” gender status, sexual orientation, and many other things represent unique identities which, one, can only be understood by those possessing them and, two, provide legitimate bases for political activism constitutes the tallest (was that “heightist?”) possible barrier to the creation of a unified and organized working class.

The Occupy movement gets co-opted

I have seen the effects of this fracturing myself. Not always a be-spectacled center-rightist friendly with both the Brooks Brothers, I was active with the 2011 Occupy movement early in graduate school.

Occupy Chicago, possibly the largest gathering of Guy Fawkes-mask wearing radicals outside Manhattan’s Zucotti Park, fell apart largely because of the endless bifurcation of members’ agendas. Whenever a task force of leading members was proposed to discuss some almost-consensus working-class issue like support for an increased minimum wage, the call would immediately come for a women’s task force. Then, what about a Black women’s task force? A Black gay women’s task force?  

Very often, 37 quarreling proposals about what to do would eventually be made, and nothing would ever get done. By the end, there actually existed a separate all-Black and minority version of Occupy, called “Occupy the Hood.”

This same sort of thing has derailed more than a few politicians running on a traditional class-based platform. Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders consistently struggled to win over Black voters, to such an extent that Politico published several pieces about the problem. Sanders won only 14% of Black South Carolina voters to Hillary Clinton's 86% in 2016; he performed similarly in 2020, and was largely knocked out of the 2020 primary by African American giant  Rep. James Clybourn’s professed support for Joe Biden.

A major reason for this, often said quite explicitly, was Sanders’ focus on economic rather than racial issues. In 2015, a Sanders speech praising the 80th anniversary of Social Security and the success of a hood-to-the-holler range of anti-poverty programs was literally shut down by Black Lives Matter activists who demanded four and a half minutes of silence in honor of the death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, and claimed to be holding Sanders accountable for failure to support their movement.

When the progressive audience — made up of thousands of people, mostly whites, who had paid to attend the speech — booed, protesters castigated them for racism and accused them of "white supremacist liberalism."

Woke corporate America

In contrast to the Fidel Castro defender but “racist” Sanders, global mega-corporations which parrot woke talking points get a break from many influential social justice activists.

The National Football League, known for fighter jet fly-overs of games which often resemble gladiatorial combat, recently gained plaudits for partnering with rapper Jay-Z and announcing the (eventual) commitment of millions to social justice causes. League partner Nike went even further, issuing a formal statement of "Our Commitment to the Black Community," and temporarily changing the company’s famous Just Do It slogan in solidarity with victims of police violence.

Both Nike and German rival Adidas will gladly sell you a sporty “BLM” T-shirt, generally for about $35 to $50. All of this is no doubt harmless and even positive. However, it buys the average citizen no health care — and a cynic might be tempted to wonder just how free the overseas workers sewing together “Equality Now” tank tops actually happen to be.

As the eventual reaction of many Sanders supporters and Occupiers to wokeness indicates, there exists a sizable and growing opening for a candidate willing to mock the extremes of social justice and champion the working class. 

In the 2020 election, rather unexpectedly, the candidate to come closest to doing so was often Republican incumbent Donald Trump. For all of Trump’s online antics, he spent much of the race declaring his support for the American manufacturing sector, trotting out the surprisingly detailed Platinum Plan for Black communities, meeting with prominent activists such as Ice Cube, and reminding working-class male voters that he signed a criminal justice reform bill, the First Step Act.

Big Orange was rewarded for this not merely with a near-sweep of lower-education white voters, but also with up to 18% of the Black male vote and more than 30% of the Latino vote. If not for the COVID-19 pandemic, this coalition almost certainly would have made him president again.

Democrats will and should challenge populist GOP candidates for the working-class vote, and certainly have some major issues on their side (what was that health care plan again, Donald?). However, as the economy of the future continues to grow and alternatives to the mainstream media become more widely available, winning it will require championing those themes that unite a huge and critical chunk of our society, rather than those that divide it.

Wilfred Reilly is an associate professor of political science at Kentucky State University and author of the books "Hate Crime Hoax: How the Left is Selling a Fake Race War" and "Taboo: 10 Facts You Can't Talk About." Follow him on Twitter: @wil_da_beast630

"Wokeness" is great as a wedge issue, but the majority of the US is not buying it.  Even a sizable chunk of minorities themselves are increasingly not buying it.  The red bolded at the end about trump likely sweeping the election had it not been for his utterly bungled handling of Covid needs to be seared into D candidates and strategists brains with a branding iron.  It's a bigly reason why trump lost but the GOP actually gained seats in the house and held onto the senate.  Because race and wokeness are not the most pressing issue on voters minds.  Their economic security is.  Housing, jobs, putting food on the table, sending their kids to college, etc is what voters care the most about.  The Dem party lost the working class voter specifically because their focus has become almost solely about divisive race and gender issues.  For as long as this continues, the GOP will dominate the working and middle class vote and increasingly gain a share of minorities who are not seeing wokeness helping their family get by and make ends meet.  Virtue signalling does not put food on the table or send your kids to a decent school.  Just saying.

 

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It's already underway - the Dems for capitalism vs the Dems for people.

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32 minutes ago, Jules said:

It's already underway - the Dems for capitalism vs the Dems for people.

Yeah, except that one of those will result in actual tangible benefits for the people and the other will simply make them "feel" both good about themselves and pissed off at their fellow Americans while not really accomplishing anything other than further division.  

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Woke is a term invented by the right to counter empathy for others.

Woke is a threat to Fuck you I Got Mine.

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12 minutes ago, astro said:

Woke is a term invented by the right to counter empathy for others.

Woke is a threat to Fuck you I Got Mine.

Who cares who invented the term?  And wokeness is zero threat to me and I don't fear them in the slightest.  I do have mine, but wokeness is a far greater threat to those who don't have theirs yet because it derails their ability to get there.  Focusing on being "woke" doesn't get you that job you need to feed your family.  Focusing on working hard, staying out of trouble, getting an education and such does.

As the author points out in the OP article...... the Occupy movement was started to address the economic disparity that affects ALL races, ethnicities and gender types.  But it was eventually ripped apart by SJW squabbling and their incessant need to force everyone to be woke to their personal battle.  Had the Occupy Wall St movement actually stayed focused and on message - they might have achieved some real reforms that would have significantly benefited ALL skin colors and genders and done some things to tangibly improve their lives.  But it was destroyed by the need to push the identity politics first and foremost - and that set back everyone.

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13 minutes ago, astro said:

Woke is a threat to Fuck you I Got Mine.

No, woke is nothing more than:  "FUCK YOU, I don't got mine - so instead of working to GET mine, I'm going to make sure you don't get to keep yours"

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1 minute ago, Burning Man said:

No, woke is nothing more than:  "FUCK YOU, I don't got mine - so instead of working to GET mine, I'm going to make sure you don't get to keep yours"

Bullshit.

Think about the opposite.  Not-woke = Fuck you I Got Mine = Capitalism.

Woke was invented as a straw man to counter empathy for others because Fuck You is not that easy to sell

tenor.gif

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5 minutes ago, astro said:

Bullshit.

Think about the opposite.  Not-woke = Fuck you I Got Mine = Capitalism.

Woke was invented as a straw man to counter empathy for others because Fuck You is not that easy to sell

 

You can say that over and over to your heart's content - randumb.  But it doesn't make it true.  

Think about it..... how does "wokeness" threaten someone like you or me who "has theirs"?  Wokeness is not going to take anything away from us.  Hell, they can't even herd their own cats enough to achieve anything other than more division and more entrenched positions.  

Actual economic equality movements such as Occupy Wall St do in fact pose a threat to those who have theirs.  But being "woke" doesn't move that needle an RCH in that direction.  Woke is nothing but a feel good circle jerk to see who can virtue signal louder than the other circle jerk group.  

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'Woke' is the new 'Commie'.

Can you not make the link between Anti-woke and those who put Trump in charge?

Same shit, different day.  Same greedy cunts driving it.

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What does “wokeness” mean; is it just the latest derogatory term for the practice of “treating people decently” like “political correctness” was?

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The author of the Hate Crime Hoax (Regenery Publishing!) is telling me that he saw identity politics tear the Occupy movement apart. Yeah, I don't remember that. Occupy was 2011. It was basically world wide. Obama, no progressive he, got the basic idea very clearly. Occupy wasn't astroturf like the Tea Party was. It made its point.

This is a black 'conservative' pushing bullshit to white 'conservatives' for a paycheck. Try again, Jeff.

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1 hour ago, astro said:

Woke is a term invented by the right to counter empathy for others.

Woke is a threat to Fuck you I Got Mine.

Like "political correctness" was hijacked by the Right to counter anti discrimination measures. The Right have form here.

edit. ah, see Sol beat me to it.

edit edit..actually Sol, political correctness was first used by the Left to describe language usage devoid of discrimination and gender specifics.

Somewhere i have a copy of the official Australian Government Style manual from around 1983. An aid issued to Government employees to assist in writing PC Government stuff.

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42 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

What does “wokeness” mean; is it just the latest derogatory term for the practice of “treating people decently” like “political correctness” was?

I think the terms Woke derive from "Stay Woke" something originating from Black American vernacular.

To deny the term in common usage once again deny's black American culture.

To us oldies, it might sound hipster and silly, but thinking about it in the above context ..made me think. Do Black Americans (AKA Americans) have the same entitlement as White Americans (AKA Americans) to influence the devolvement of your language?

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3 hours ago, Jules said:

It's already underway - the Dems for capitalism vs the Dems for people.

That would be Black Friday Matters vs. Black Lives Matter? 

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Think about it..... how does "wokeness" threaten someone like you or me who "has theirs"?  Wokeness is not going to take anything away from us.  Hell, they can't even herd their own cats enough to achieve anything other than more division and more entrenched positions.

Wokeness is for Lefties to identify with, particularly if they carry the burden of 'white privilege' , so they can feel good about themselves, while avoiding doing anything other than paying lip service to the concept.

There are a few here who exhibit this in spades. Kind of funny if it weren't taken so seriously.

FKT

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I wish they came up with a better term for whatever the fuck it is intended to mean. 

' Wokeness' sounds like you failed a grade one English exam.  

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How about just treating people decently. Don’t lie to them, don’t cheat them. Don’t marginalize them. Respect people as a default until the individual demonstrates that they do not deserve it. Be a decent fucking human being regardless of what kind of derogatory name some shitheel comes up with to brand it. Celebrate decent people instead of pieces of shit. Does that really require a party, and how is it not the province of every party?

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56 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Wokeness is for Lefties to identify with, particularly if they carry the burden of 'white privilege' , so they can feel good about themselves, while avoiding doing anything other than paying lip service to the concept.

There are a few here who exhibit this in spades. Kind of funny if it weren't taken so seriously.

FKT

You have noticed there are some hypocrites here too...  what gives it away?

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4 hours ago, Burning Man said:

No, woke is nothing more than:  "FUCK YOU, I don't got mine - so instead of working to GET mine, I'm going to make sure you don't get to keep yours"

So Trump supporters are woke. Got it.

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32 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

How about just treating people decently. Don’t lie to them, don’t cheat them. Don’t marginalize them. Respect people as a default until the individual demonstrates that they do not deserve it. Be a decent fucking human being regardless of what kind of derogatory name some shitheel comes up with to brand it. Celebrate decent people instead of pieces of shit. Does that really require a party, and how is it not the province of every party?

Nope, none of that helps achieve or hold onto power. And if you're not in power, you can't make laws about treating people fairly. Senator Franken could have done more good work for the people in this country, but he fell for the woke meme and resigned. 

What's the color and font for sarcastic cynical unfortunate reality?

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4 hours ago, Burning Man said:

No, woke is nothing more than:  "FUCK YOU, I don't got mine - so instead of working to GET mine, I'm going to make sure you don't get to keep yours"

You are truly a fucking maroon.

People are working when they can and falling farther behind.  I can show you the poverty and the wealth.  Since you seem to be blind, insensitive and uneducated, someone needs to give you a guided tour.  Dumb ass.

There is a lot of legacy, a lot of economic power and a lot of fucking complacency that allows working class people to languish.  

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4 hours ago, Burning Man said:

You can say that over and over to your heart's content - randumb.  But it doesn't make it true.  

Think about it..... how does "wokeness" threaten someone like you or me who "has theirs"?  Wokeness is not going to take anything away from us.  Hell, they can't even herd their own cats enough to achieve anything other than more division and more entrenched positions.  

Actual economic equality movements such as Occupy Wall St do in fact pose a threat to those who have theirs.  But being "woke" doesn't move that needle an RCH in that direction.  Woke is nothing but a feel good circle jerk to see who can virtue signal louder than the other circle jerk group.  

If woke doesn't effect us, why should we care?

Why are middle class posers so anti woke?

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The OP reads.

Will "Wokeness" will tear the Dem party apart?

Looks like Jeff is undecided whether to ask a question or make a statement.

Regardless of what "tag" the issue goes under, firstly one has to ascertain if there is an issue?

If a substantial portion of the community deem that there is an issue to be addressed and resolved, does it really matter what verb one uses to identify the issue?

 

Sometimes. 

In this case, the section of the community that has identified the issue has chosen the verb as used in their own vernacular. Does anyone have the right to question that?

Wouldn't questioning of their choice simply be demonstrating that there is indeed a problem?

Think about it.

Woke is a verb. Synonyms 

 

SYNONYMS FOR woke

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

How about just treating people decently. Don’t lie to them, don’t cheat them. Don’t marginalize them. Respect people as a default until the individual demonstrates that they do not deserve it. Be a decent fucking human being regardless of what kind of derogatory name some shitheel comes up with to brand it. Celebrate decent people instead of pieces of shit. Does that really require a party, and how is it not the province of every party?

But how can I die with more money than you?

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4 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

What does “wokeness” mean; is it just the latest derogatory term for the practice of “treating people decently” like “political correctness” was?

No. “Woke” is a term the SJW and BLM folks use to describe themselves.  For instance one might say:  “I used to be a racist with white privilege but then I woke”

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Just now, Burning Man said:

No. “Woke” is a term the SJW and BLM folks use to describe themselves.  For instance one might say:  “I used to be a racist with white privilege but then I woke”

So woke means "I'm no longer a cunt"?

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9 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

The OP reads.

Will "Wokeness" will tear the Dem party apart?

Looks like Jeff is undecided whether to ask a question or make a statement.

Regardless of what "tag" the issue goes under, firstly one has to ascertain if there is an issue?

If a substantial portion of the community deem that there is an issue to be addressed and resolved, does it really matter what verb one uses to identify the issue?

 

Sometimes. 

In this case, the section of the community that has identified the issue has chosen the verb as used in their own vernacular. Does anyone have the right to question that?

Wouldn't questioning of their choice simply be demonstrating that there is indeed a problem?

Think about it.

Woke is a verb. Synonyms 

 

SYNONYMS FOR woke

When the Fuck did this become about the term “woke”???  I didn’t make fun of or mock the term. The OP author said the practice of wokeness and identity politics is what is going to tear down the Dem party.  I couldn’t give two shits what term is used to describe ID politics. 

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1 minute ago, Burning Man said:

When the Fuck did this become about the term “woke”???  I didn’t make fun of or mock the term. The OP author said the practice of wokeness and identity politics is what is going to tear down the Dem party.  I couldn’t give two shits what term is used to describe ID politics. 

Without knowing what the term actually means, how can it be discussed?

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1 minute ago, Burning Man said:

When the Fuck did this become about the term “woke”???  I didn’t make fun of or mock the term. The OP author said the practice of wokeness and identity politics is what is going to tear down the Dem party.  I couldn’t give two shits what term is used to describe ID politics. 

Why are "identity politics" bad for Dems but just fine for the I-hope-soon-to-resume-Team R!, exactly ??

We know why Trumpublicans hate to hear about "woke" or anything else suggesting certain people are equal citizens who should be treated as such

- DSK

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14 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

When the Fuck did this become about the term “woke”???  I didn’t make fun of or mock the term. The OP author said the practice of wokeness and identity politics is what is going to tear down the Dem party.  I couldn’t give two shits what term is used to describe ID politics. 

The OP being YOU.

How the hell can the practice of awareness tear down a political party? That's a really odd thing to think.

Unless of course, you think awareness is a bad thing.

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I am not sure if it is "Wokeness" or what, but Jeff is essentially correct. The left in America will famously fall into internecine battles the second their very existence is not threatened, i.e. Trump lost the election, we voted for Biden, play time is over, back to fighting each other. This is also why I roll my eyes whenever the local elk think "The Left" is some unified group with common goals. It is more like the Black Lesbians vs. The Cisgender Suburban Hispanics vs. the Gay Mexicans vs. Pre-Op Trannies vs. The Post-Op Trannies vs. The Vegans vs. The Vegatarians vs. The Hungarian Cosplay Commumity vs. The One Leftover Marxist and so on :rolleyes:

The righties will squabble too, but they know their duty and they ALL turn out to vote for their guy even if they hated him last week.

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9 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

The OP being YOU.

How the hell can the practice of awareness tear down a political party? That's a really odd thing to think.

Unless of course, you think awareness is a bad thing.

Very easily.  A bunch of them will get butt-hurt their vegan subsidy for cucumber growing degrees didn't get funded and decide that they will show those asshole Democrats what happens when they get disrespected, stay home for midterms, hand Congress back to the Rs, and then whinge and moan on InstaTwit how unfair it all is those nasty Nazi assholes got elected. The "Bernie Bros" essentially gave us Trump, they either stayed home or voted for him.

They cannot stick to a goal for long, but they need to be stamping the Republicans into the dirt FIRST and then making a leftwing party SECOND.

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27 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Very easily.  A bunch of them will get butt-hurt their vegan subsidy for cucumber growing degrees didn't get funded and decide that they will show those asshole Democrats what happens when they get disrespected, stay home for midterms, hand Congress back to the Rs, and then whinge and moan on InstaTwit how unfair it all is those nasty Nazi assholes got elected. The "Bernie Bros" essentially gave us Trump, they either stayed home or voted for him.

They cannot stick to a goal for long, but they need to be stamping the Republicans into the dirt FIRST and then making a leftwing party SECOND.

Meh, can you name me any party any where that doesn't have internal factions. That's all Jeff is making a mountain about because that's what right wingers do. 

There's a word for it that I can never remember. When one blows up a small point to draw attention away from their real purpose.

I think we know what this is. :rolleyes:

 

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

When the Fuck did this become about the term “woke”???  I didn’t make fun of or mock the term. The OP author said the practice of wokeness and identity politics is what is going to tear down the Dem party.  I couldn’t give two shits what term is used to describe ID politics. 

As For Identity politics, there you go again. Making something normal and desirable into something destructive.

Identity Politics? I think the Suffragette movement within the various labour parties was fucking identity politics Jeff.

They got accused of tearing the party s apart too.:rolleyes: 

Hell there was "Identity Politics" within the Suffragette movement..who'd have thunk that a bunch of people might have different ideas how to achieve a common goal. Got forbid individualism :D

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44 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I am not sure if it is "Wokeness" or what, but Jeff is essentially correct. The left in America will famously fall into internecine battles the second their very existence is not threatened, i.e. Trump lost the election, we voted for Biden, play time is over, back to fighting each other. This is also why I roll my eyes whenever the local elk think "The Left" is some unified group with common goals. It is more like the Black Lesbians vs. The Cisgender Suburban Hispanics vs. the Gay Mexicans vs. Pre-Op Trannies vs. The Post-Op Trannies vs. The Vegans vs. The Vegatarians vs. The Hungarian Cosplay Commumity vs. The One Leftover Marxist and so on :rolleyes:

The righties will squabble too, but they know their duty and they ALL turn out to vote for their guy even if they hated him last week.

When you have only 2 parties, what's the fringe to do?

 

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5 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

When you have only 2 parties, what's the fringe to do?

 

 

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45 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Very easily.  A bunch of them will get butt-hurt their vegan subsidy for cucumber growing degrees didn't get funded and decide that they will show those asshole Democrats what happens when they get disrespected, stay home for midterms, hand Congress back to the Rs, and then whinge and moan on InstaTwit how unfair it all is those nasty Nazi assholes got elected. The "Bernie Bros" essentially gave us Trump, they either stayed home or voted for him.

They cannot stick to a goal for long, but they need to be stamping the Republicans into the dirt FIRST and then making a leftwing party SECOND.

In reality, probably.

But to counter, why did the bigger faction choose to not support the vegan faction?

Did they not want their vote?

Both sides are being stubborn and holding to their principles. That's a good thing, even if ultimately unsustainable.

 

We complain about the lack of political principles, we complain about the focus on power.

 

FFS, we play in a way which promotes sportsmanship over winning.

 

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5 hours ago, Olsonist said:

The author of the Hate Crime Hoax (Regenery Publishing!) is telling me that he saw identity politics tear the Occupy movement apart. Yeah, I don't remember that. Occupy was 2011. It was basically world wide. Obama, no progressive he, got the basic idea very clearly. Occupy wasn't astroturf like the Tea Party was. It made its point.

This is a black 'conservative' pushing bullshit to white 'conservatives' for a paycheck. Try again, Jeff.

These are the only black voices Jeff and his elk will listen to, so good luck with that.

Maybe he'll come back with some Candace Owens for us, or a little Diamond and Silk.

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7 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Who cares who invented the term?  And wokeness is zero threat to me and I don't fear them in the slightest.  I do have mine, but wokeness is a far greater threat to those who don't have theirs

 

giphy.gif

You are the problem.

  1. You assess a new term about empathy by it's potential threat to YOU!  YCMTSU  :lol:
  2. You spin against empathy by pretending the harm will be to the empathetic?  Fucking bullshit.

It's bullshit like this and people like you that put Trump in.

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The US Reich really does not grasp or comprehend that the 

entire modern Drumpian project is all about 

white identity politics 

white "wokeness" if you will 

(I was gonna write "white male" except for the election results; 

that demon possesses white women too) 

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12 minutes ago, astro said:

 

giphy.gif

You are the problem.

  1. You assess a new term about empathy by it's potential threat to YOU!  YCMTSU  :lol:
  2. You spin against empathy by pretending the harm will be to the empathetic?  Fucking bullshit.

It's bullshit like this and people like you that put Trump in.

Yep. Jeff is threatened, by those awakened.

He can't avoid dwelling upon the subject, sans empathy, while he packs the problem around, year after year.

 

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Just Jeffreaux on another race rant.

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uhh, now if I had to guess who are the pettiest mutherfuckers to ever roam the Earth...I'd have to say politically right leaning male crackers...

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4 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Just Jeffreaux on another race rant.

 JBSF needs a room with a progressive lesbian

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5 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

 JBSF needs a room with a progressive lesbian

Maybe I can fix him up

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40 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Maybe I can fix him up

Do you have the mesh stockings and everything?

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War is peace, freedom is slavery and ignorance is woke. 

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WOKE
verb
  1. past of wake1.
adjective
informalUS
adjective: woke; comparative adjective: woker; superlative adjective: wokest
alert to injustice in society, especially racism.
"we need to stay angry, and stay woke"
 
adjective: NOT woke; comparative adjective
  1. Greedy and selfish racist cunts

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2 hours ago, Venom said:

War is peace, freedom is slavery and ignorance is woke. 

image.jpeg.febf88eac3052d5a3b58763abf12fc1a.jpeg

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9 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Is it alright for me to think that George Floyd’s death was perhaps not quite right, or am I being too woke?

go back to sleep 

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12 hours ago, Burning Man said:

When the Fuck did this become about the term “woke”???  I didn’t make fun of or mock the term. The OP author said the practice of wokeness and identity politics is what is going to tear down the Dem party.  I couldn’t give two shits what term is used to describe ID politics. 

Here ya go.

https://theconversation.com/where-woke-came-from-and-why-marketers-should-think-twice-before-jumping-on-the-social-activism-bandwagon-122713

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You all need to separate out personal dislike for the OP and some realpolitik. The Republicans would LOVE LOVE LOVE it if the left edge of the Ds gets in charge and terrifies suburban families with visions of mandatory cross-dressing in schools, making SUVs illegal, and so on.

What we need -  A united Democratic Party until the Republicans are a bunch of fringe nutters who get 2% of the vote. THEN they split, the Democrats will be center-right and the new party - Social Democrats? - can be left of them. I fear they won't even wait until January and hand it all back to Team R. Kind of like the USA declaring war on the USSR right after D-Day :rolleyes: Wait until Hitler is dead ya dumbfuks!

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16 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Without knowing what the term actually means, how can it be discussed?

You've heard of this new thing out there called google, right?

Here, let me help you out:  WOKE

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3 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

You all need to separate out personal dislike for the OP and some realpolitik. The Republicans would LOVE LOVE LOVE it if the left edge of the Ds gets in charge and terrifies suburban families with visions of mandatory cross-dressing in schools, making SUVs illegal, and so on.

What we need -  A united Democratic Party until the Republicans are a bunch of fringe nutters who get 2% of the vote. THEN they split, the Democrats will be center-right and the new party - Social Democrats? - can be left of them. I fear they won't even wait until January and hand it all back to Team R. Kind of like the USA declaring war on the USSR right after D-Day :rolleyes: Wait until Hitler is dead ya dumbfuks!

Agree, but what will actually happen is the old Dems will start to die, there will be a public fight, and regardless of outcome the Republicans will do well in the midterms. All along Jeffreaux will whinge about the Dems sucking cause they are not Republicans.

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18 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

You all need to separate out personal dislike for the OP and some realpolitik. The Republicans would LOVE LOVE LOVE it if the left edge of the Ds gets in charge and terrifies suburban families with visions of mandatory cross-dressing in schools, making SUVs illegal, and so on.

What we need -  A united Democratic Party until the Republicans are a bunch of fringe nutters who get 2% of the vote. THEN they split, the Democrats will be center-right and the new party - Social Democrats? - can be left of them. I fear they won't even wait until January and hand it all back to Team R. Kind of like the USA declaring war on the USSR right after D-Day :rolleyes: Wait until Hitler is dead ya dumbfuks!

Thank you.  I attempt to bring up real issues that affect us all and it instantly devolves into a shitfight over what they think I think.  It's intellectual laziness and fear of addressing a real problem, so it's easier to just slag on a poster they disagree with.  I have thick skin, so it doesn't bother me personally.  But unfortunately this is what 97% of PA has become - a total personal slag fest on specific posters because it saves them the effort of actually reading what they post and having to put some actual thought into really discussing it.  

So I appreciate your at least trying to stick to the topic at hand.  I don't expect or even want agreement with me or the position(s) I post - but it is refreshing if, for once in a blue moon, people just look at the topic without looking at the poster's name first and forming their opinion of what was said BEFORE they even bothered to read it.  Assuming they will even bother to read it at all.  

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18 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Agree, but what will actually happen is the old Dems will start to die, there will be a public fight, and regardless of outcome the Republicans will do well in the midterms. All along Jeffreaux will whinge about the Dems sucking cause they are not Republicans.

That's funni, dik breath, given that I'm the one poster here who has loudly and repeatedly called for the GOP bitch to be burned to the ground and for something to replace it.  The GOP has utterly and irrevocably lost my loyalty.  Short of an internal revolution where all the old cunts are removed and the current GOP dogma is rejected and repudiated, I don't see me ever going back until something significantly changes.  

So right, wrong or indifferent - I'm stuck with the Dems for now.  So I'm simply trying to make them suck less.  I'm one of you now...... I'm your elk brother.  But I'm not going to sit back and watch you guys fuck up, again, without trying.  So I'm a voice within your own party and I will not be quiet.  Suck it.

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59 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

That's funni, dik breath, given that I'm the one poster here who has loudly and repeatedly called for the GOP bitch to be burned to the ground and for something to replace it.  The GOP has utterly and irrevocably lost my loyalty.  Short of an internal revolution where all the old cunts are removed and the current GOP dogma is rejected and repudiated, I don't see me ever going back until something significantly changes.  

So right, wrong or indifferent - I'm stuck with the Dems for now.  So I'm simply trying to make them suck less.  I'm one of you now...... I'm your elk brother.  But I'm not going to sit back and watch you guys fuck up, again, without trying.  So I'm a voice within your own party and I will not be quiet.  Suck it.

You are no Democrat. Just because the party you belonged to immolated itself doesn't mean the Democrats need to change themselves to suit you.

The Democrats will likely never please you, the guy who bragged about making popcorn to sit back and watch the Shock & Awe coverage on TV and routinely posts racist bullshit with a mocking Amos & Andy shuck & jive shtick.

You're too warlike, intolerant, and bigoted for the democrats really, and you have next to zero compassion for anyone about anything. You seem to oppose the very concept of safety social nets, caring for the weak, helping the down trodden, and helping those less fortunate at all except through charity.

The Democrats will never, ever change to suit someone like you, it's a fools errand to think otherwise. You may want to put your efforts into something more suited to your worldview. Just because the Republicans don't fit you any more doesn't mean the Democrats do or ever will.

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1 minute ago, B.J. Porter said:

You are no Democrat. Just because the party you belonged to immolated itself doesn't mean the Democrats need to change themselves to suit you.

The Democrats will likely never please you, the guy who bragged about making popcorn to sit back and watch the Shock & Awe coverage on TV and routinely posts racist bullshit with a mocking Amos & Andy shuck & jive shtick.

You're too warlike, intolerant, and bigoted for the democrats really, and you have next to zero compassion for anyone about anything. You seem to oppose the very concept of safety social nets, caring for the weak, helping the down trodden, and helping those less fortunate at all except through charity.

The Democrats will never, ever change to suit someone like you, it's a fools errand to think otherwise. You may want to put your efforts into something more suited to your worldview. Just because the Republicans don't fit you any more doesn't mean the Democrats do or ever will.

Despite all that, if the Democrats think NOW is the time for an internal civil war, which I think a few of them do, they'll hand it all back to Jeffie's former herd of elk and this time they might be smarter dictators :o All we have got these last 4 years was Hitler- dropped-on-head- as-baby.

* I think the Kaiser really was dropped on his head, have to check

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3 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

.... All we have got these last 4 years was Hitler- dropped-on-head- as-baby.

* I think the Kaiser really was dropped on his head, have to check

Withered arm. Gave him a HU-U-UGE chip on his shoulder, which almost immediately after he reached the stage of being able to actually give commands, gave him a God complex and much like Trump made a disaster out of everything he touched. Until Trump, I would have said that Kaiser Bill probably had one of the most unhappy lives of any human I know of.

Apologies for the thread drift

- DSK

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2 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

You are no Democrat. Just because the party you belonged to immolated itself doesn't mean the Democrats need to change themselves to suit you.

The Democrats will likely never please you, the guy who bragged about making popcorn to sit back and watch the Shock & Awe coverage on TV and routinely posts racist bullshit with a mocking Amos & Andy shuck & jive shtick.

You're too warlike, intolerant, and bigoted for the democrats really, and you have next to zero compassion for anyone about anything. You seem to oppose the very concept of safety social nets, caring for the weak, helping the down trodden, and helping those less fortunate at all except through charity.

The Democrats will never, ever change to suit someone like you, it's a fools errand to think otherwise. You may want to put your efforts into something more suited to your worldview. Just because the Republicans don't fit you any more doesn't mean the Democrats do or ever will.

Sorry BJ - I'm one of you now.  At least until when/if something emerges from the ashes to present a competing narrative.  So that means I'm in your elk herd for the foreseeable future.  Deal with it.

And sorry, you are simply wrong about me.  For one - what you describe about the popcorn S&A was literally 18 years ago.  (Gawd, I can't believe we've been on sailing anarchy this long).  You don't think someone can change and mellow over almost 20 years??  I think I have.  The perspective is far different when you're at the tip of the spear leading men and women into combat than it is when you're the one having to send them into combat later in life.  Furthermore, there are plenty of hawks within the D-party.  Obama hisself was known as the Drone killer in Chief.  He authorized far more drone strikes than GW and trump combined.

And on social issues - I've always been far more left leaning than the GOP.  I have and still support gay mawage, gays in the military, abortion choice, comprehensive immigration reform, social safety nets, the big gov't bailouts during the 2008 housing AND covid crises.  And whether you believe it or not, I fully support BLM's goals of equity and police reform.  I just don't happen to agree with some of the tactics used to achieve those goals.  

On foreign policy issues - I fully support diplomatic engagement first and foremost, I believe in a strong NATO, I believe in working WITH our partners and not constantly pissing them off for no good reason.  I do however, believe that we have been taken advantage of by our partners and that we need to make sure they pull their weight too.  I just don't agree AT ALL, with how trump has gone about conveying that message.  

I fully believe in the concept of global warming and 100% believe in the science and believe we need to take aggressive and immediate steps to combat it.  Hell, I drive a Tesla because of it.  I think it was a mistake to exit the paris climate accord.  I just don't think we have to wreck the economy overnight in the process.  There has to be a balance.  Oil cannot go away overnight.  

On the economy - I am a believer in free trade deals.  However, we cannot blindly pursue free trade without trying to make sure the American worker doesn't suffer in the process.  This is still one of the biggest reasons Hillary lost to trump is that she and the Dems for years paid lip service to the American worker, "retraining" schemes and alternatives to manufacturing going away and never did anything about it.  I think we should work WITH our partners such as the EU to confront Jyhna on their unfair trade practices.  

So....... BJ - which of those beliefs above are incompatible with the Dem party?  Yeah, that's what I thought.  Sorry, I am one of you now.  And I find it particularly amusing that one of your biggest criticisms of the GOP over all these years is their demand within the party to stay in lockstep with the talking points with zero deviation allowed - yet here you are giving me shit for not being in lockstep with every single tenant or talking point of the more left-ish wing of the party.  Sorry, I am what I am and I'll continue to speak my mind on these issues.  I guess I'm out of the closet now and you should accept me, warts and all.  

 

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27 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Despite all that, if the Democrats think NOW is the time for an internal civil war, which I think a few of them do, they'll hand it all back to Jeffie's former herd of elk and this time they might be smarter dictators :o All we have got these last 4 years was Hitler- dropped-on-head- as-baby.

* I think the Kaiser really was dropped on his head, have to check

I said this exact thing a while ago.  Years ago in fact.  It was the genesis of BTBD.  I said that trump was not the cause, he was a mere symptom and that if the Dems ignore that, they will do so to their own peril and the peril of the country.  I said back then that Donnie was NOT the threat to the country that you all think he was.  And that if we didn't address the root causes of why trump was elected in the first place, we were going to get a far smarter and more cunning sociopathic populist who would do real harm to the country.  

And here you guys are doing exactly what I warned against........ you are attributing ALL or the vast majority of those 70M votes for trump as stupidity, idiocy, racism, bigotry, etc.  When I would say exactly the opposite is true.  A tiny fraction of that 70M was stupidity, racism, etc while the vast majority still doesn't see anyone else addressing the root causes of their discontent.  The democrats certainly are not and are instead talking about "wokeness" while at the same time continuing to call those 70M "deplorables".  That's why Biden won, but the rest of the GOP did fine in the election.  trump lost because he was an idiot, pure and simple.   There was no "blue wave" or a clamoring for AOC's brand of democratic love.  It was as simple as:  "I can't stand this ONE gigantic, incompetent asshole - but I either like what the rest of the GOP is doing for the economy or see nothing good the Dems are doing enough to vote for them down ballot".

That's an almost certain recipe for getting another trump into power, but likely someone who has enough sense to know when to STFU and not get into twatter wars constantly with the press and everyone else.  There IS a more polished and intelligent version of trump out there just waiting for the right opening.  Dems beware that if you don't get your shit together and focus on what the majority of the country needs and wants - then you WE will be out in the wilderness again.  

Just saying.

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15 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Sorry BJ - I'm one of you now. 

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54 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

caring for the weak, helping the down trodden, and helping those less fortunate at all except through charity.

 

So, what have you done?

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1 minute ago, 3to1 said:

'moderate' democrat' = 'conservative' reTurdlican = low bar

fkn' lame.

See^^^.  Exhibit A.  

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22 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Like "political correctness" was hijacked by the Right to counter anti discrimination measures. The Right have form here.

edit. ah, see Sol beat me to it.

edit edit..actually Sol, political correctness was first used by the Left to describe language usage devoid of discrimination and gender specifics.

Somewhere i have a copy of the official Australian Government Style manual from around 1983. An aid issued to Government employees to assist in writing PC Government stuff.

That would be a good read. In 1983 employers were still required to give staff cigarette breaks. However Jeff is right. In the country wakefulness is working brilliantly to keep the ALP and the Greens in opposition. Random and Meli are just pissed because India won the cricket on Friday.

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2 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

See^^^.  Exhibit A.  

like I said..

'just saying'

 

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Just now, nacradriver said:

So, what have you done?

Ah, the standard right wing idiot reply to Democrats mentioning that we think society has some obligation to protect the weak.

Paid a lot of taxes, voted for Democrats.

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9 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Paid a lot of taxes, voted for Democrats.

Me too.  :P

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Just now, B.J. Porter said:

Ah, the standard right wing idiot reply to Democrats mentioning that we think society has some obligation to protect the weak.

Paid a lot of taxes, voted for Democrats.

I'll bite... I get my hands dirty with our local homeless situation...  and pay taxes and voted for a few democrats..

Here pull out your credit card and help..   better yet you have some old winter clothes send them on out...  

http://www.projectunderstanding.org/

Once again, you have proven you talk the talk, but sure as hell don't walk the walk..

Otherwise you know that drill....

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12 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Ah, the standard right wing idiot reply to Democrats mentioning that we think society has some obligation to protect the weak.

Paid a lot of taxes, voted for Democrats.

I don't know that we have other than a moral obligation to protect the weak.  Making it a right which can be demanded is not a particularly good idea.  It does not create weakness but it does create laziness.

Receiving something from others should be seen a charity, giving something to others on demand should not be an obligation enforced by law.

 

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26 minutes ago, nacradriver said:

I'll bite... I get my hands dirty with our local homeless situation...  and pay taxes and voted for a few democrats..

Here pull out your credit card and help..   better yet you have some old winter clothes send them on out...  

http://www.projectunderstanding.org/

Once again, you have proven you talk the talk, but sure as hell don't walk the walk..

Otherwise you know that drill....

I really have nothing to prove to the likes of you though. So there is that.

I've been cruising in the tropics for eight years and don't own a home...do you really think I have old winter clothes??

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19 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I am not sure if it is "Wokeness" or what, but Jeff is essentially correct. The left in America will famously fall into internecine battles the second their very existence is not threatened, i.e. Trump lost the election, we voted for Biden, play time is over, back to fighting each other. This is also why I roll my eyes whenever the local elk think "The Left" is some unified group with common goals. It is more like the Black Lesbians vs. The Cisgender Suburban Hispanics vs. the Gay Mexicans vs. Pre-Op Trannies vs. The Post-Op Trannies vs. The Vegans vs. The Vegatarians vs. The Hungarian Cosplay Commumity vs. The One Leftover Marxist and so on :rolleyes:

The righties will squabble too, but they know their duty and they ALL turn out to vote for their guy even if they hated him last week.

Yep. The moment you get some advantage from claiming victimhood, you get other people also wanting to claim victimhood too. Then it's time to roll your eyes, say 'whatever' and ignore the lot of them.

There are real issues for sure - poverty, lack of education, lack of medical care, you name it. Those need to be addressed. But people pontificating on 'white privilege' while doing their best to reinforce it doesn't cut much ice. It's the same as the local Lefties here claiming to support public education - all the while sending their kids to private schools. Funnily enough, that happens amongst the Left 'woke' people in the USA, too.

FKT

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1 hour ago, nacradriver said:

I'll bite... I get my hands dirty with our local homeless situation...  and pay taxes and voted for a few democrats..

Here pull out your credit card and help..   better yet you have some old winter clothes send them on out...  

http://www.projectunderstanding.org/

Once again, you have proven you talk the talk, but sure as hell don't walk the walk..

Otherwise you know that drill....

All very laudable, but Charitable Orgs should not be a substitute for Government leadership and action.

Charity can only provide when the piggy bank's full and donors fat. How's your org doing since Covid?

And Charity is not necessarily dignity either. I've worked at Foodbanks run by one of the Biggest NFP. They treat the recipients like something scrapped off a shoe and the Racist remarks from the volunteer staff behind their customers backs would make one blanche. The sneaky ways the volunteers favour certain groups and punish others, the little power hierarchies among the drone workers.

Never again. 

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52 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yep. The moment you get some advantage from claiming victimhood, you get other people also wanting to claim victimhood too. Then it's time to roll your eyes, say 'whatever' and ignore the lot of them.

There are real issues for sure - poverty, lack of education, lack of medical care, you name it. Those need to be addressed. But people pontificating on 'white privilege' while doing their best to reinforce it doesn't cut much ice. It's the same as the local Lefties here claiming to support public education - all the while sending their kids to private schools. Funnily enough, that happens amongst the Left 'woke' people in the USA, too.

FKT

Yeah. Disgusting hypocrisy. One of the worst examples of middle class welfare you could find. Don't get me started on our Private/Public school funding issue or LB will on our backs. (well, prolly not yours :rolleyes:)

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Look up Wokeness !! 
Why the hell would ANYBODY oppose wokeness??

This is simply another case of those who fear thinkers spending a great deal of effort demonizing them. 

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