benwynn

"Trump Doesn't Talk Down to Anybody"

Recommended Posts

I had initially intended to rip Biden's potential CIA director as an idiot for making a statement like that.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-elissa-slotkin-of-michigan-reportedly-eyed-as-bidens-cia-director

Then I read the linked article:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/13/elissa-slotkin-braces-for-a-democratic-civil-war-436301

I'm not sure the statement is properly worded, but in the context she is referring to how he speaks to voters, specifically those who support him.  From the article:

Slotkin elaborated, saying a “certain voter” is the type of Trump supporter who appreciates that the president doesn’t belittle them and is willing to overlook his treatment of others.

“It’s not just that he eats cheeseburgers at a big celebratory dinner. It’s not just that he does things that the common man can kind of appreciate. And it’s not even because he uses kind of simplistic language—he doesn’t use complicated, wonky language, the way a lot of Democrats do,” Slotkin explained to Politico.

“We sometimes make people feel like they aren’t conscientious enough. They aren’t thoughtful enough. They aren’t ‘woke’ enough. They aren’t smart enough or educated enough to just understand what’s good for them,” Slotkin continued. “It’s talking down to people. It’s alienating them. And there’s just certain voters who feel so distant from the political process -- it’s not their life, it’s not their world. They hate it. They don’t like all that politics stuff. Trump speaks to them, because he includes them.”

I simply have not understood the relatively strong support to Trump.  Many of us have not.  At the same time, I am struggling not to just write off half the country as idiots. I'm trying to understand what is going on with them in a way to bridge divides. 

Granted, the article seems geared towards just winning elections, but it still provides some insight into reasons for Trump's support.   An obvious conclusion is that there is a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes a leader, or at least what one considers a leader's most valuable strengths.  But I think a more subtle conclusion is that it could just be how those strengths are communicated, or more importantly how they are perceived.  Personally,  I don't have a problem with a leader telling us what we may be getting wrong and/or what we need to improve on.  I've always looked to a President to be better than me.  For the most part, better than all of us.  To me, that's a critical qualification for President.  And I think, deep down, that is what the vast majority of us want.  Perhaps, it is all about the delivery.   It's a tightrope.  Telling people you relate to their values and beliefs while telling them we all need to do better.  I don't know how to further elaborate much more on this.   Still trying to figure it out.  Throwing up my hands just seems like the wrong approach.  At least, it has not worked for me so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every Trump supporter that I have engaged enough to actually have a conversation with falls into 2 categories...those who believe all the nonsense on OANN, Breitbart and Fox News and those who simply hate the same people Trump hates...democrats, people of color, immigrants, "elites".

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LCD .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, benwynn said:

...

At the same time, I am struggling not to just write off half the country as idiots.

...

Sure, it takes a little effort, but it's worth it.

Keep in mind, Trump still has a 44% approval rating after losing the election. It was hard to believe that Trump was elected in 2016, yet it is true. It is equally hard to believe that half the country is filled with idiots, yet it is true. Let's just call them the 44%ers and put them in the total loss column.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Mid said:

LCD .

Latent Co-Dependency?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lowest Common Denominator .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Mid said:

Lowest Common Denominator .

Oh, my other guess was Liquid Crystal Display, but that made no sense.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, benwynn said:

Throwing up my hands just seems like the wrong approach.  At least, it has not worked for me so far.

paraphrasing  . don't throw good money after bad .

tRump has exposed a lost sector of the population and old dogs don't learn new tricks .

the youth need leadership to restore the equilibrium .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, bhyde said:

Sure, it takes a little effort, but it's worth it.

Keep in mind, Trump still has a 44% approval rating after losing the election. It was hard to believe that Trump was elected in 2016, yet it is true. It is equally hard to believe that half the country is filled with idiots, yet it is true. Let's just call them the 44%ers and put them in the total loss column.

That doesn't solve anything, and is lazy.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I was a kid, there were certain boys whom my Mother found to be impolite bullies. She was disappointed when I spent time around them. Some ended up in reform school. Some had parents who bought those boys’ way out of trouble. 
As I got older, some of those boys got dates with girls but never with the girls I admired. Some of those girls were lovely but none was smart.

Half a century later I watched the impolite bully round up enough weaklings to become POTUS. 
 

We put up with him for four years and finally have booted his worthless ass out. 
 

Decent people outnumber the fools and opportunistic bullies. We simply have to do our jobs and take care of those who cannot take care of themselves. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, benwynn said:

That doesn't solve anything, and is lazy.

You're right on both accounts, but you know what? Fuck 'em. I'm not spending any more time trying to reason with people that can't be reasoned with. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bhyde said:

Sure, it takes a little effort, but it's worth it.

Keep in mind, Trump still has a 44% approval rating after losing the election. It was hard to believe that Trump was elected in 2016, yet it is true. It is equally hard to believe that half the country is filled with idiots, yet it is true. Let's just call them the 44%ers and put them in the total loss column.

44% of the nation aren't idiots, they are simply misinformed. What has happened is our entertainment media, particularly comedians, use that ignorance as easy fodder for material. When people are laughed at for their beliefs you get an instant inferiority complex. FOX News panders to that by constantly re-enforcing the misinformation for profit, and so does Trump. 

 FDR didn't have that problem. There was no FOX News, there wasn't much media at all outside of newspapers, what entertainment media there was was movies..and there was no TV.  Radio stations didn't devote themselves to punditry, and since the transistor had not been invented it wasn't in everybody's ears all the time. Not in cars, pretty much only in homes. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a new religion out there.  The religion of conspiracy theories.  They were invented for the same reason other religions were - to provide simple explanations for things that people didn't understand and to give them something to feel they belonged to.  

Social media has given conspiracy theories power that they never had before.  Trump is essentially the product of a big conspiracy theory - the theory that the left are a bunch of communists trying to take over the world, take all the guns, and make everyone a slave.  

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What the article pretty much says is that a whole bunch of USAeans 

don't like anyone to communicate with them 

at anything more than a fourth grade level. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mark K said:

44% of the nation aren't idiots, they are simply misinformed. What has happened is our entertainment media, particularly comedians, use that ignorance as easy fodder for material. When people are laughed at for their beliefs you get an instant inferiority complex. FOX News panders to that by constantly re-enforcing the misinformation for profit, and so does Trump. 

 FDR didn't have that problem. There was no FOX News, there wasn't much media at all outside of newspapers, what entertainment media there was was movies..and there was no TV.  Radio stations didn't devote themselves to punditry, and since the transistor had not been invented it wasn't in everybody's ears all the time. Not in cars, pretty much only in homes. 

Not exactly. FDR had to deal with Father Coughlin, initially a supporter but then a thorn with 30 million listeners. The population then was about 127 million. There was even a Cole Porter lyric, Picture City Hall without boondogglin', picture Sunday tea minus Father CoughlinHe railed about Jewish bankers and supported the fascists, Hitler, Mussolini and Hirohito. But I'm certain it was all in a very small government, fiscally conservative kind of way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin

The NYTimes said the broadcasts continued until and after Pearl Harbor.

After Pearl Harbor, Father Coughlin continued for a time to be the center of nationalist, isolationist, pro‐Nazi groups, saying that the war had been caused by British-Jewish-Roosevelt conspiracy.

But, under church pressure, Father Coughlin was forced to stop his radio programs, which, in wartime, had become clearly divisive.

https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/28/archives/charles-coughlin-30s-radio-priest-dies-fiery-sermons-stirred-furor.html

There's that nationalist word.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trump doesn't talk down to people for one simple reason;

With an 800 word vocabulary he is incapable of it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Not exactly. FDR had to deal with Father Coughlin, initially a supporter but then a thorn with 30 million listeners. The population then was about 127 million. There was even a Cole Porter lyric, Picture City Hall without boondogglin', picture Sunday tea minus Father CoughlinHe railed about Jewish bankers and supported the fascists, Hitler, Mussolini and Hirohito. But I'm certain it was all in a very small government, fiscally conservative kind of way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin

The NYTimes said the broadcasts continued until and after Pearl Harbor.

After Pearl Harbor, Father Coughlin continued for a time to be the center of nationalist, isolationist, pro‐Nazi groups, saying that the war had been caused by British-Jewish-Roosevelt conspiracy.

But, under church pressure, Father Coughlin was forced to stop his radio programs, which, in wartime, had become clearly divisive.

https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/28/archives/charles-coughlin-30s-radio-priest-dies-fiery-sermons-stirred-furor.html

There's that nationalist word.

  True, there was a dedicated opposition then, as always, but people had nothing like the multi-source gaslighting going on today. We got us a bad case of truth-decay. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mark K said:

44% of the nation aren't idiots, they are simply misinformed. What has happened is our entertainment media, particularly comedians, use that ignorance as easy fodder for material. When people are laughed at for their beliefs you get an instant inferiority complex. FOX News panders to that by constantly re-enforcing the misinformation for profit, and so does Trump. 

 FDR didn't have that problem. There was no FOX News, there wasn't much media at all outside of newspapers, what entertainment media there was was movies..and there was no TV.  Radio stations didn't devote themselves to punditry, and since the transistor had not been invented it wasn't in everybody's ears all the time. Not in cars, pretty much only in homes. 

Normally I would wholeheartedly agree with you. The root problem is misinformation and would agree that we should work towards correcting that. But then I think about people like Warbird and Dog and Joker and all the rest. Are they misinformed? They have access to exactly the same information we do, and have been called out on their myopic bullshit time and time again without any obvious effect. They, like most Trump supporters, simple ignore facts and continue to propagate hate and division like the idiots they are. Well, guess what? You want hate and division? You got it. 

Sound harsh and narrow-minded? It is, but consider what would be going on right now if Trump had won the election. Imagine how many of our Trumpaloo friends would be reaching across the aisle right now to make all us all one big happy nation. Yeah, exactly zero.

Fuck Trump. Fuck Trump supporters. And fuck the GOP. I'm done with those assholes.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Mark K said:

44% of the nation aren't idiots, they are simply misinformed.

I would disagree.

Carlin said "Think of how dumb the average person is and then realize that 1/2 of them are dumber than that".

That 1/2 comprises the Trump supporters.

If, after the past 4 years, a person still supports Trump and these Republicans then they are not "misinformed", they are either stupid or malignant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Mark K said:

44% of the nation aren't idiots, they are simply misinformed

I dunno.  Some people have to be on the lower end of the spectrum of intelligence. 

During WW II the US Army did some tests to find some use for the lower end of the curve. 

They found about 10% simply were too dangerous with anything more than a padded broom.

I honestly suspect a very large number of Trump voters just ain't that smart. 70-100 = 48% of the population....

IQ bell curve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Trump doesn't talk down to people for one simple reason;

With an 800 word vocabulary he is incapable of it.

And, many of those words are simply adjectives.

The ones he uses about himself are positive - 

amazing / beautiful / best / big league / brilliant / elegant / fabulous / fantastic / fine / good / great / happy / honest / incredible / nice / outstanding / phenomenal / powerful / sophisticated / special / strong / successful / top / tremendous / unbelievable

The ones he uses about others are negative -

boring / complete and total / crooked / disgusting / dishonest / dopey / dumb / goofy / horrible / not good / obsolete / out of control / overrated / pathetic / ridiculous / rude / sad / scary / stupid / terrible / unfair / weak / worst

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, benwynn said:

I had initially intended to rip Biden's potential CIA director as an idiot for making a statement like that.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-elissa-slotkin-of-michigan-reportedly-eyed-as-bidens-cia-director

Then I read the linked article:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/13/elissa-slotkin-braces-for-a-democratic-civil-war-436301

I'm not sure the statement is properly worded, but in the context she is referring to how he speaks to voters, specifically those who support him.  From the article:

Slotkin elaborated, saying a “certain voter” is the type of Trump supporter who appreciates that the president doesn’t belittle them and is willing to overlook his treatment of others.

“It’s not just that he eats cheeseburgers at a big celebratory dinner. It’s not just that he does things that the common man can kind of appreciate. And it’s not even because he uses kind of simplistic language—he doesn’t use complicated, wonky language, the way a lot of Democrats do,” Slotkin explained to Politico.

“We sometimes make people feel like they aren’t conscientious enough. They aren’t thoughtful enough. They aren’t ‘woke’ enough. They aren’t smart enough or educated enough to just understand what’s good for them,” Slotkin continued. “It’s talking down to people. It’s alienating them. And there’s just certain voters who feel so distant from the political process -- it’s not their life, it’s not their world. They hate it. They don’t like all that politics stuff. Trump speaks to them, because he includes them.”

I simply have not understood the relatively strong support to Trump.  Many of us have not.  At the same time, I am struggling not to just write off half the country as idiots. I'm trying to understand what is going on with them in a way to bridge divides. 

Granted, the article seems geared towards just winning elections, but it still provides some insight into reasons for Trump's support.   An obvious conclusion is that there is a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes a leader, or at least what one considers a leader's most valuable strengths.  But I think a more subtle conclusion is that it could just be how those strengths are communicated, or more importantly how they are perceived.  Personally,  I don't have a problem with a leader telling us what we may be getting wrong and/or what we need to improve on.  I've always looked to a President to be better than me.  For the most part, better than all of us.  To me, that's a critical qualification for President.  And I think, deep down, that is what the vast majority of us want.  Perhaps, it is all about the delivery.   It's a tightrope.  Telling people you relate to their values and beliefs while telling them we all need to do better.  I don't know how to further elaborate much more on this.   Still trying to figure it out.  Throwing up my hands just seems like the wrong approach.  At least, it has not worked for me so far.

Well duh. Quite a few of us have been telling you the same thing for months, including me on numerous occasions, and you simply refuse to listen.

And I DESPISE Trump and would never, ever have voted for him. But I understand where a lot of his support comes from and it appears a lot of you so-called Progressives don't have a clue.

FKT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Remodel said:

Oh, my other guess was Liquid Crystal Display, but that made no sense.

Liquid Crystal-meth Dependency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:
7 hours ago, benwynn said:

Still trying to figure it out.  Throwing up my hands just seems like the wrong approach.  At least, it has not worked for me so far.

Well duh. Quite a few of us have been telling you the same thing for months, including me on numerous occasions, and you simply refuse to listen.

And I DESPISE Trump and would never, ever have voted for him. But I understand where a lot of his support comes from and it appears a lot of you so-called Progressives don't have a clue.

70 million voters is too many to ignore.

Any realistic, practical, approach to governing the USA will -have- to factor in getting the support of a fair number of them; especially if they are going to follow the Republican tradition of voting religiously in the primaries and mid-terms.

Another question is, how many of these voters are going to continue the Republican tradition of never-never-NEVER even considering voting for a Democrat, except in an emergency (such as voting for FDR or voting against Trump)?

It might be that a fiscally conservative Democrat, especially if he and/or she were socially moderate (and by that I mean accepting of gay/LGBQT rights but not actively proselytizing for them), can pick up a decent percentage of these voters. Or it might be that the most they could hope for would be to have them not vote 'against.'

There's a wide variety of reasons why people voted for Trump. Hatred of liberals & Dems is a very common one, and that's the core message being pushed by rightie spew-media.

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Well duh. Quite a few of us have been telling you the same thing for months, including me on numerous occasions, and you simply refuse to listen.

And I DESPISE Trump and would never, ever have voted for him. But I understand where a lot of his support comes from and it appears a lot of you so-called Progressives don't have a clue.

FKT

The constructive nature of my post has obviously pissed you off.

Go fuck yourself.

Better?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

70 million voters is too many to ignore.

Any realistic, practical, approach to governing the USA will -have- to factor in getting the support of a fair number of them; especially if they are going to follow the Republican tradition of voting religiously in the primaries and mid-terms.

Another question is, how many of these voters are going to continue the Republican tradition of never-never-NEVER even considering voting for a Democrat, except in an emergency (such as voting for FDR or voting against Trump)?

It might be that a fiscally conservative Democrat, especially if he and/or she were socially moderate (and by that I mean accepting of gay/LGBQT rights but not actively proselytizing for them), can pick up a decent percentage of these voters. Or it might be that the most they could hope for would be to have them not vote 'against.'

There's a wide variety of reasons why people voted for Trump. Hatred of liberals & Dems is a very common one, and that's the core message being pushed by rightie spew-media.

- DSK

I agree.  I think the best one could hope for is to get at least a decent percentage.   There's common ground on what the goals are, but then there are different positions on how to get to those goals.  A good deal of it the communication of the ideas.  Pete Buttigieg is very good at it.  He understands the value in selling the other side as opposed to preaching to his side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like you're beginning to understand the Trump voter Mr. Benwynn.  Another factor that is related addresses the responses in this very discussion.  

There is a large majority of lefties here responding with how "stupid" those 70 million Americans are and that they will never even think about trying to come to terms with them in their disagreement of a point of view based on a different value set.  This is literally "talking down" to them.  Much as Trump is accused of doing.  This creates and maintains the divide and it won't change until people like you - on both sides - decide we need to come together.  Do people really think the left side of the bell curve is only Trump supporters?  I'm in MNSA - I'm a Trump supporter - IQ between 140 and 155.  But now I'm an idiot apparently.  

The "talking down" shit needs to stop.

 

Glad to see you're actually trying - that's awesome!  Much respect for you.  Now maybe we can actually discuss policy.  "Rarely done at this message board" - mostly shit throwing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, benwynn said:

Still trying to figure it out.  Throwing up my hands just seems like the wrong approach.  At least, it has not worked for me so far.

"Vote for us or you're a stupid racist" isn't going to win anyone over. Nor is, "you're responsible for violent criminals so we're going to take your (assault weapons, ordinary .22's)."

Hope that helps in your quest!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Quotidian Tom said:

"Vote for us or you're a stupid racist" isn't going to win anyone over. Nor is, "you're responsible for violent criminals so we're going to take your (assault weapons, ordinary .22's)."

Hope that helps in your quest!

Good points.  Have you also considered these?

"Vote for us or we will cut your nuts off."

"Drive an electric car, or we will take your fossil fueled car and light it on fire with your children locked inside."

I've got more, if you do.  This is fun. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Mckarma said:

Seems like you're beginning to understand the Trump voter Mr. Benwynn.  Another factor that is related addresses the responses in this very discussion.  

There is a large majority of lefties here responding with how "stupid" those 70 million Americans are and that they will never even think about trying to come to terms with them in their disagreement of a point of view based on a different value set.  This is literally "talking down" to them.  Much as Trump is accused of doing.  This creates and maintains the divide and it won't change until people like you - on both sides - decide we need to come together.  Do people really think the left side of the bell curve is only Trump supporters?  I'm in MNSA - I'm a Trump supporter - IQ between 140 and 155.  But now I'm an idiot apparently.  

The "talking down" shit needs to stop.

 

Glad to see you're actually trying - that's awesome!  Much respect for you.  Now maybe we can actually discuss policy.  "Rarely done at this message board" - mostly shit throwing.

You actually are an idiot, sorry to inform you. First off *Mensa* is where smart people go, no idea WTF MNSA is about :rolleyes:

Second, if you have just watched 4 years of a malignant toddler wreaking destruction on this county and LIKED it, idiot is the kindest word I can come up with.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, benwynn said:

I had initially intended to rip Biden's potential CIA director as an idiot for making a statement like that.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-elissa-slotkin-of-michigan-reportedly-eyed-as-bidens-cia-director

Then I read the linked article:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/13/elissa-slotkin-braces-for-a-democratic-civil-war-436301

I'm not sure the statement is properly worded, but in the context she is referring to how he speaks to voters, specifically those who support him.  From the article:

Slotkin elaborated, saying a “certain voter” is the type of Trump supporter who appreciates that the president doesn’t belittle them and is willing to overlook his treatment of others.

“It’s not just that he eats cheeseburgers at a big celebratory dinner. It’s not just that he does things that the common man can kind of appreciate. And it’s not even because he uses kind of simplistic language—he doesn’t use complicated, wonky language, the way a lot of Democrats do,” Slotkin explained to Politico.

“We sometimes make people feel like they aren’t conscientious enough. They aren’t thoughtful enough. They aren’t ‘woke’ enough. They aren’t smart enough or educated enough to just understand what’s good for them,” Slotkin continued. “It’s talking down to people. It’s alienating them. And there’s just certain voters who feel so distant from the political process -- it’s not their life, it’s not their world. They hate it. They don’t like all that politics stuff. Trump speaks to them, because he includes them.”

I simply have not understood the relatively strong support to Trump.  Many of us have not.  At the same time, I am struggling not to just write off half the country as idiots. I'm trying to understand what is going on with them in a way to bridge divides. 

Granted, the article seems geared towards just winning elections, but it still provides some insight into reasons for Trump's support.   An obvious conclusion is that there is a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes a leader, or at least what one considers a leader's most valuable strengths.  But I think a more subtle conclusion is that it could just be how those strengths are communicated, or more importantly how they are perceived.  Personally,  I don't have a problem with a leader telling us what we may be getting wrong and/or what we need to improve on.  I've always looked to a President to be better than me.  For the most part, better than all of us.  To me, that's a critical qualification for President.  And I think, deep down, that is what the vast majority of us want.  Perhaps, it is all about the delivery.   It's a tightrope.  Telling people you relate to their values and beliefs while telling them we all need to do better.  I don't know how to further elaborate much more on this.   Still trying to figure it out.  Throwing up my hands just seems like the wrong approach.  At least, it has not worked for me so far.

He actually is quite good at connecting with the common deplorable.

He has this manner of speech that is like he is in on the joke and so are you.

"Hey, they let me grab their pussies. I'm rich, I'm famous, this is great! You would love to grab some pussies too , wouldn't you? Come on, admit it, you win the big lottery and you'll be right there with me grabbing every one of them!" He plays out the fantasy of what Inbred Jed thinks of when he imagines being rich. I banged a porn star with huge fake tits! You would SO be doing that too if you were rich.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, benwynn said:

I had initially intended to rip Biden's potential CIA director as an idiot for making a statement like that.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-elissa-slotkin-of-michigan-reportedly-eyed-as-bidens-cia-director

Then I read the linked article:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/13/elissa-slotkin-braces-for-a-democratic-civil-war-436301

I'm not sure the statement is properly worded, but in the context she is referring to how he speaks to voters, specifically those who support him.  From the article:

Slotkin elaborated, saying a “certain voter” is the type of Trump supporter who appreciates that the president doesn’t belittle them and is willing to overlook his treatment of others.

“It’s not just that he eats cheeseburgers at a big celebratory dinner. It’s not just that he does things that the common man can kind of appreciate. And it’s not even because he uses kind of simplistic language—he doesn’t use complicated, wonky language, the way a lot of Democrats do,” Slotkin explained to Politico.

“We sometimes make people feel like they aren’t conscientious enough. They aren’t thoughtful enough. They aren’t ‘woke’ enough. They aren’t smart enough or educated enough to just understand what’s good for them,” Slotkin continued. “It’s talking down to people. It’s alienating them. And there’s just certain voters who feel so distant from the political process -- it’s not their life, it’s not their world. They hate it. They don’t like all that politics stuff. Trump speaks to them, because he includes them.”

I simply have not understood the relatively strong support to Trump.  Many of us have not.  At the same time, I am struggling not to just write off half the country as idiots. I'm trying to understand what is going on with them in a way to bridge divides. 

Granted, the article seems geared towards just winning elections, but it still provides some insight into reasons for Trump's support.   An obvious conclusion is that there is a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes a leader, or at least what one considers a leader's most valuable strengths.  But I think a more subtle conclusion is that it could just be how those strengths are communicated, or more importantly how they are perceived.  Personally,  I don't have a problem with a leader telling us what we may be getting wrong and/or what we need to improve on.  I've always looked to a President to be better than me.  For the most part, better than all of us.  To me, that's a critical qualification for President.  And I think, deep down, that is what the vast majority of us want.  Perhaps, it is all about the delivery.   It's a tightrope.  Telling people you relate to their values and beliefs while telling them we all need to do better.  I don't know how to further elaborate much more on this.   Still trying to figure it out.  Throwing up my hands just seems like the wrong approach.  At least, it has not worked for me so far.

Hillary Clinton, despite all of her objective qualifications, made those folks feel less important - lesser human beings. The arrogance of the leaders of the Democratic party anointing her as their inevitable candidate made a large contribution to the Trump " fuck you , you big headed bitch crowd." Those people are still angry and think we the "educated elites" think  they are the hired help.Let's hope Biden understands them better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, saxdog said:

Hillary Clinton, despite all of her objective qualifications, made those folks feel less important - lesser human beings. The arrogance of the leaders of the Democratic party anointing her as their inevitable candidate made a large contribution to the Trump " fuck you , you big headed bitch crowd." Those people are still angry and think we the "educated elites" think  they are the hired help.Let's hope Biden understands them better.

250+ thousand dead later, they really showed her who was boss!

* and yeah, she was a terrible campaigner, she acted like it was a nuisance to actually have to go out there and mingle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

He actually is quite good at connecting with the common deplorable.

He has this manner of speech that is like he is in on the joke and so are you.

"Hey, they let me grab their pussies. I'm rich, I'm famous, this is great! You would love to grab some pussies too , wouldn't you? Come on, admit it, you win the big lottery and you'll be right there with me grabbing every one of them!" He plays out the fantasy of what Inbred Jed thinks of when he imagines being rich. I banged a porn star with huge fake tits! You would SO be doing that too if you were rich.

Yikes. This really is it.  And then you add the cultish shit about masks limiting freedom and ......

Makes me think Lincoln was the worst president. Should have gotten rid of the red states when we had the chance. 

But since we are stuck with them and their cursed denizens let's put re-education camps on the table as an option 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, benwynn said:

I am struggling not to just write off half the country as idiots.

There's your problem right there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:
6 minutes ago, saxdog said:

Hillary Clinton, despite all of her objective qualifications, made those folks feel less important - lesser human beings. The arrogance of the leaders of the Democratic party anointing her as their inevitable candidate made a large contribution to the Trump " fuck you , you big headed bitch crowd." Those people are still angry and think we the "educated elites" think  they are the hired help.Let's hope Biden understands them better.

250+ thousand dead later, they really showed her who was boss!

* and yeah, she was a terrible campaigner, she acted like it was a nuisance to actually have to go out there and mingle.

Hillary was a very poor politician. She made clear was not there to kiss any babies or shake any hands.

But this stuff about "anointed candidate" is actually Republican propaganda. She got more fucking votes! Same as Biden got more votes.... that's why they have primaries!

The biggest problem is that the hired help -are- pissed off because they are struggling to keep their families fed and under a roof, even in good times. They're sold a vision of America where you succeed if you work hard, they're working 2 or 3 jobs and their lives get shittier every year. Then they hear a steady message blaming Hillary and those goddam libby-rull faggots, and yeah doncha hate those beaners coming in here and black people thinking they're just as good as you when they all get welfare, etc etc.

If Nixon has had the backing of the Rush/Fox/etc media industry, he'd have packed the Senate in a box and dropped them over Cambodia.

-THAT- is the real struggle. How do you compete in the marketplace of ideas, when the other guy has a gazillion dollars of free advertising and no inhibitions about lying?

- DSK

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Zonker said:

I dunno.  Some people have to be on the lower end of the spectrum of intelligence. 

During WW II the US Army did some tests to find some use for the lower end of the curve. 

They found about 10% simply were too dangerous with anything more than a padded broom.

I honestly suspect a very large number of Trump voters just ain't that smart. 70-100 = 48% of the population....

IQ bell curve

It's the information bubble they live in. Probably around 80% of North Koreans believe in their government. The problem isn't limited to intelligence. Hell, Newton dabbled in alchemy.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, benwynn said:

Slotkin elaborated, saying a “certain voter” is the type of Trump supporter who appreciates that the president doesn’t belittle them and is willing to overlook his treatment of others.

 

"Slotkin elaborated, saying a “certain voter” is the type of Trump supporter who appreciates that the president doesn’t belittle them and is willing to overlook his treatment of others."

Maybe these "certain type of voters" would change their view after being in the same room for 5 minutes with the deranged cunt?

 

 

 

Maybe they just "go with the flow" when the cunt talks about "massive dumps"? 

 

 

 

Maybe they would pay more attention if they had clean up after him doing "massive dumps" in his pants?

(interesting with the trillions of defamation suits the cunt pursues, he hasn't sued this guy? Bit hard if it is true?) 

 

 

Enough of the excuses.

Maybe these "certain type of voters" are just as fucking deranged as this fucking deranged cunt is?

 

 

 

The question is?

Are these the cunts who the GOP will still look to power the party?

OR

After 4 years of hiding their head in the sand will the GOP turn their backs on these cunts to avoid America imploding? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

You actually are an idiot, sorry to inform you. First off *Mensa* is where smart people go, no idea WTF MNSA is about :rolleyes:

 

It's like the YMCA. MNSA is the NSA, but for men only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Hillary was a very poor politician. She made clear was not there to kiss any babies or shake any hands.

But this stuff about "anointed candidate" is actually Republican propaganda. She got more fucking votes! Same as Biden got more votes.... that's why they have primaries!

The biggest problem is that the hired help -are- pissed off because they are struggling to keep their families fed and under a roof, even in good times. They're sold a vision of America where you succeed if you work hard, they're working 2 or 3 jobs and their lives get shittier every year. Then they hear a steady message blaming Hillary and those goddam libby-rull faggots, and yeah doncha hate those beaners coming in here and black people thinking they're just as good as you when they all get welfare, etc etc.

If Nixon has had the backing of the Rush/Fox/etc media industry, he'd have packed the Senate in a box and dropped them over Cambodia.

-THAT- is the real struggle. How do you compete in the marketplace of ideas, when the other guy has a gazillion dollars of free advertising and no inhibitions about lying?

- DSK

 

I despise Trump and all the bullshit he's selling but his voters get a a vote and need to feel like they are part of the plan too.

Understanding how to sell your plan is an essential part of becoming an elected official. It's about making people feel good or in Trump's case vengeful. Hate is a powerful motivator too.

Trump was a master at selling his grievance platform to an audience just waiting for someone to tell them their problems come from the liberal elite.

Getting elected takes more than simply being the most qualified candidate.

Bill Clinton and W Bush understood this very well. Remember all the "He's someone I'd like to have a beer with" conversation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mark K said:

It's the information bubble they live in. Probably around 80% of North Koreans believe in their government. The problem isn't limited to intelligence. Hell, Newton dabbled in alchemy.  

Sorry Mark, the NKians are living in a bubble created by their government with no alternative. If they change the channel to PBS they get shot in the face with an anti-aircraft gun by Crazy Kim. The 44%ers are living in a bubble of their own choosing. Who the hell takes OANN or Fox seriously? I'll tell you. The 44% of the electorate that are idiots. I know it sounds simplistic, but until I see a shred of evidence otherwise, I'm going with the obvious answer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Mckarma said:

 I'm in MNSA - I'm a Trump supporter - IQ between 140 and 155.  But now I'm an idiot apparently.  

Not apparently - it's a fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, bhyde said:

You're right on both accounts, but you know what? Fuck 'em. I'm not spending any more time trying to reason with unreasonable  people that can't be reasoned with

Grammar police were here. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, benwynn said:

The constructive nature of my post has obviously pissed you off.

Go fuck yourself.

Better?

Well, it didn't piss me off at all. It's somewhere between entertaining and a bit of a relief to see people like you come slowly to terms with the reality of a lot of people who voted for Trump, though.

And I've no need to go fuck myself, I have someone who performs that service for me, to our mutual delight. Thanks for your concern, though.

FKT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

The biggest problem is that the hired help -are- pissed off because they are struggling to keep their families fed and under a roof, even in good times. They're sold a vision of America where you succeed if you work hard, they're working 2 or 3 jobs and their lives get shittier every year. Then they hear a steady message blaming Hillary and those goddam libby-rull faggots, and yeah doncha hate those beaners coming in here and black people thinking they're just as good as you when they all get welfare, etc etc.

Might be part of it. IMO a much bigger part is, they're worried if their partner loses his/her job and they can't pay the rent and lose their home. One gets sick, they can't pay the medical bills. Their bright kid has lousy prospects unless he's an athlete or dead lucky. Their average kid is likely to have a less secure life than they have. They're struggling and going further behind every year.

And what's the message from the Democrats? What gets the press? From my reading and fair distance away, it's the crap equivalent to arguing about how many angels can dance on a pinhead. It's shit that's only of interest to the 'woke' progressive types. Continual lecturing about 'white privilege' to people who can't manage on a single job and often have 3 or more, all insecure and part-time with no health cover.

If the Democrats actually care about this demographic, they do a truly wonderful job of hiding it. Hilary referring to them as 'deplorables' sank very deeply into them. You label them as such, you treat them with disdain and contempt, and they vote against you.

It truly amazes me that so many of you people cannot see this. Or if you can, you think that you can just ignore 43% plus of your voting population. What happens when it gets to 51%? What are you going to do then? Because IMO that's quite a likely outcome next election if the Repubs find someone with even half a brain and a personality that's not toxic.

FKT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe there are two separate but overlapping forces at play. There are the the things that pulled people into the cult, and then there are the things that keep them there. The disinformation is a big part of what keeps people there, which is no different than any other cult. Separate folks from anyone who is an outsider, make even friends and family the enemy if they don't agree with you or even if they question a belief. I believe that the bigger part of what attracts people to the cult in the beginning is not the disinformation, but is that they feel understood and accepted. The first rule of getting someone to listen to you is to establish that you care about what they say and you respect them. Clinton failed at this, Biden did not but that does not mean we are out of the woods. The cult is still large and it's walls of disinformation are getting taller, it will become increasingly hard to pull people out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, benwynn said:
7 hours ago, Quotidian Tom said:

"Vote for us or you're a stupid racist" isn't going to win anyone over. Nor is, "you're responsible for violent criminals so we're going to take your (assault weapons, ordinary .22's)."

Hope that helps in your quest!

Good points.  Have you also considered these?

"Vote for us or we will cut your nuts off."

"Drive an electric car, or we will take your fossil fueled car and light it on fire with your children locked inside."

I've got more, if you do.  This is fun. 

Maybe it would be more fun if we backed up the statements with actual quotes from this forum? I'll start...

On 9/18/2020 at 12:32 PM, Olsonist said:

It also absolves individuals of the LIABILITY FOR USE by others. So if your roommate steals your keys and bypasses your 'secure gun storage' and uses your gun to holdup a liquor store, you're totally good. But if your roommate steals your keys and runs over a little old lady with your car, well that's what you have liability insurance for.


Why do you suppose Olsonist would spread a lie about how we treat auto liability if not to hold gun owners responsible for the actions of criminals? Why do you think badlat "liked" his lie?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, LenP said:

I believe there are two separate but overlapping forces at play. There are the the things that pulled people into the cult, and then there are the things that keep them there. The disinformation is a big part of what keeps people there, which is no different than any other cult. Separate folks from anyone who is an outsider, make even friends and family the enemy if they don't agree with you or even if they question a belief. I believe that the bigger part of what attracts people to the cult in the beginning is not the disinformation, but is that they feel understood and accepted. The first rule of getting someone to listen to you is to establish that you care about what they say and you respect them. Clinton failed at this, Biden did not but that does not mean we are out of the woods. The cult is still large and it's walls of disinformation are getting taller, it will become increasingly hard to pull people out. 

Clinton didn't just *fail* at it, she was so busy playing to her supporters that she stacked a few more layers of blocks on the top of the wall. She gave her opposition some great quotes to demonstrate that, in fact, she didn't care and she actually despised them. Way to go.

You need to get at least 10% to 20% of them back to a position of at least neutral and listening. Nearly everything I read here, if those Trump voters read it, would push them even deeper into supporting the Repubs, because you guys actually do despise, distrust and have contempt for that 43%. Or if you don't, you give a wonderful facsimile of doing so. And that's squarely on you.

FKT

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Clinton didn't just *fail* at it, she was so busy playing to her supporters that she stacked a few more layers of blocks on the top of the wall. She gave her opposition some great quotes to demonstrate that, in fact, she didn't care and she actually despised them. Way to go.

You need to get at least 10% to 20% of them back to a position of at least neutral and listening. Nearly everything I read here, if those Trump voters read it, would push them even deeper into supporting the Repubs, because you guys actually do despise, distrust and have contempt for that 43%. Or if you don't, you give a wonderful facsimile of doing so. And that's squarely on you.

FKT

I agree on Clinton. Her "deplorables" comment put her contempt on full display. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it simply means that 44% of people have really low self esteem.

Have you ever noticed that the lower on the "respected by all"  scale someone seems to be, the higher they are on the belligerence, "king in their grass castle, stubborn and ostentation  scale?

Trump never tells his supporters that they should strive for anything other than trashing someone else. This makes them feel good about themselves.

Fix the self esteem of Americans and you may fix the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

I think it simply means that 44% of people have really low self esteem.

Have you ever noticed that the lower on the "respected by all"  scale someone seems to be, the higher they are on the belligerence, "king in their grass castle, stubborn and ostentation  scale?

Fix the self esteem of Americans and you may fix the problem.

Maybe. Depends on how.

Fixing health care and education would be a good start. Jobs are harder as some of it is profit-seeking by corporations and some of it is a structural shift away from the need for labour. What used to take a full 3 shifts of employees on turret lathes is now done by a handful of CNC machines with auto bar feeders running lights-out, needing maybe 1/20 of the labour. That isn't going to revert any more than secretarial pools are going to reappear.

The decent employment thing is hard. More and more I lean towards some form of basic payment to all. It doesn't give people jobs but I'm not sure anything can. If they can afford the basics then maybe they'll find/create niches themselves.

But IMO first order things are health care and education.

FKT

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not talking about jobs or wealth creation or even health security. Poor people don't necessarily have low self esteem and wealthy people, even self made wealthy people often do have low self esteem.

Think of the rich guy who just always has to tell everyone about how rich he is. Maybe I mean internal self assurance.

The USA is such a competitive and punitive society. 

I doubt many would think that collectively they are scared of everything. and nothing scares them more than submission. Submitting that tiny bit of control that they can call their own no matter how sensible that submission is.

Hence the "my rights" over collective benefit thing. Those that won't mask up for example seem to think that this is some great symbol of their freedom and self determination and to obey and mask up will be a defeat. How sad.

(I am just talking about that 44%)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

 

You need to get at least 10% to 20% of them back to a position of at least neutral and listening. Nearly everything I read here, if those Trump voters read it, would push them even deeper into supporting the Repubs, because you guys actually do despise, distrust and have contempt for that 43%. Or if you don't, you give a wonderful facsimile of doing so. And that's squarely on you.

FKT

100%. no one ever won anyone over with contempt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Quotidian Tom said:

"Vote for us or you're a stupid racist" isn't going to win anyone over.

WTF? EMF too.

 Let's get a very broad brush, to discuss "advocacy of racist policies," by Tom Ray.

 

Why did you do "stop and frisk/Bloomberg/racism" over and over? Even worse, you jacked up MLK as a case for "must issue"!

You yelled out that anyone who supported Bloomberg was a racist, cuz racist policy, stop and frisk.

You yelled out that anyone who supported "may issue" was supporting a racist policy, as such.

Does this pass for National Merit Scholarship-level material in the deep south, or what?

Quote

TOM RAY, ON PA,  from 2014

 Gun control has always been racist, and still is today with policies like "stop and frisk" and "may or may not issue" permits. Quit advocating that our officials be allowed to use race to dispense our rights and I will quit complaining about your advocacy of racist policies.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=160457&p=4680878

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Shortforbob said:
3 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

You need to get at least 10% to 20% of them back to a position of at least neutral and listening. Nearly everything I read here, if those Trump voters read it, would push them even deeper into supporting the Repubs, because you guys actually do despise, distrust and have contempt for that 43%. Or if you don't, you give a wonderful facsimile of doing so. And that's squarely on you.

FKT

100%. no one ever won anyone over with contempt.

Sure, but I'm not trying to win anyone over. My goals are strictly recreational

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Quotidian Tom said:

Maybe it would be more fun if we backed up the statements with actual quotes from this forum? I'll start...

Thanks.  It's always satisfying to make a point and have somebody get it.

4 hours ago, Quotidian Tom said:

Why do you suppose Olsonist would spread a lie about how we treat auto liability if not to hold gun owners responsible for the actions of criminals? Why do you think badlat "liked" his lie?

I don't know.  Have you asked them?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, benwynn said:

“It’s talking down to people. It’s alienating them.

FOX News creator Roger Ailes said, "Don't tell people how to think.  That's talking down to them.  Tell them how to feel."

 

Reading through the article, I remembered the time NAFTA was being debated, during the Clinton years.  Union leadership vilified it and the guys on the job hated it.  Then Clinton signed it.  Union leadership fell quiet but union members were furious at Clinton.

I have always seen that as the point where blue collar workers began to lose faith in the Democratic Party.  It certainly was from where I was sitting, and it wouldn't surprise me if there were similar reactions across the country.   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Clinton didn't just *fail* at it, she was so busy playing to her supporters that she stacked a few more layers of blocks on the top of the wall. She gave her opposition some great quotes to demonstrate that, in fact, she didn't care and she actually despised them. Way to go.

You need to get at least 10% to 20% of them back to a position of at least neutral and listening. Nearly everything I read here, if those Trump voters read it, would push them even deeper into supporting the Repubs, because you guys actually do despise, distrust and have contempt for that 43%. Or if you don't, you give a wonderful facsimile of doing so. And that's squarely on you.

FKT

You're right - everyone should give serious and thoughtful consideration to the political positions of these people and work at convincing them to change.

image.png.9ce13dfa3985df2512ed1ca22809360f.pngimage.png.ba1323b1da42752c4847f147a25fafdb.pngimage.png.362889a8ea0d2b224a13d1f5a017d92e.pngimage.png.ea7a9b4d2f9768d2775d6555db354445.pngimage.png.7cd7b011a5c246d43393a0129d3f8267.pngimage.png.ea25ecbb3a3f68e8f9044910f6d008f8.pngimage.png.24ae1b34c48d3b07a3817a89dfad0da8.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kent and Sloop,

 

I guess you didn't get the "Maritime Navigation Safety Association" reference as a "fuck off" reference.

 

My bad,

 

Thought you guys would have picked up on it.  Too subtle I suppose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

You're right - everyone should give serious and thoughtful consideration to the political positions of these people and work at convincing them to change.

image.png.9ce13dfa3985df2512ed1ca22809360f.pngimage.png.ba1323b1da42752c4847f147a25fafdb.pngimage.png.362889a8ea0d2b224a13d1f5a017d92e.pngimage.png.ea7a9b4d2f9768d2775d6555db354445.pngimage.png.7cd7b011a5c246d43393a0129d3f8267.pngimage.png.ea25ecbb3a3f68e8f9044910f6d008f8.pngimage.png.24ae1b34c48d3b07a3817a89dfad0da8.png

A question?

do those photo's make you feel better about yourself?

If so, ask yourself why? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:
2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

You're right - everyone should give serious and thoughtful consideration to the political positions of these people and work at convincing them to change.

image.png.9ce13dfa3985df2512ed1ca22809360f.pngimage.png.ba1323b1da42752c4847f147a25fafdb.pngimage.png.362889a8ea0d2b224a13d1f5a017d92e.pngimage.png.ea7a9b4d2f9768d2775d6555db354445.pngimage.png.7cd7b011a5c246d43393a0129d3f8267.pngimage.png.ea25ecbb3a3f68e8f9044910f6d008f8.pngimage.png.24ae1b34c48d3b07a3817a89dfad0da8.png

A question?

do those photo's make you feel better about yourself?

If so, ask yourself why? 

They want to be perceived as "tough" and "strong".  No doubt they feel these photos do just that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Jules said:

FOX News creator Roger Ailes said, "Don't tell people how to think.  That's talking down to them.  Tell them how to feel."

 

Reading through the article, I remembered the time NAFTA was being debated, during the Clinton years.  Union leadership vilified it and the guys on the job hated it.  Then Clinton signed it.  Union leadership fell quiet but union members were furious at Clinton.

I have always seen that as the point where blue collar workers began to lose faith in the Democratic Party.  It certainly was from where I was sitting, and it wouldn't surprise me if there were similar reactions across the country.   

Yep, My Walrus and the carpenter analogy applies to both Reps and Dems

O Oysters, come and walk with us!'
      The Walrus did beseech.
A pleasant walk, a pleasant talk,
      Along the briny beach:
We cannot do with more than four,
      To give a hand to each.'
 
The eldest Oyster looked at him,
      But never a word he said:
The eldest Oyster winked his eye,
      And shook his heavy head —
Meaning to say he did not choose
      To leave the oyster-bed.
 
But four young Oysters hurried up,
      All eager for the treat:
Their coats were brushed, their faces washed,
      Their shoes were clean and neat —
And this was odd, because, you know,
      They hadn't any feet.
 
Four other Oysters followed them,
      And yet another four;
And thick and fast they came at last,
      And more, and more, and more —
All hopping through the frothy waves,
      And scrambling to the shore.
 
The Walrus and the Carpenter
      Walked on a mile or so,
And then they rested on a rock
      Conveniently low:
And all the little Oysters stood
      And waited in a row.
 
The time has come,' the Walrus said,
      To talk of many things:
Of shoes — and ships — and sealing-wax —
      Of cabbages — and kings —
And why the sea is boiling hot —
      And whether pigs have wings.'
 
But wait a bit,' the Oysters cried,
      Before we have our chat;
For some of us are out of breath,
      And all of us are fat!'
No hurry!' said the Carpenter.
      They thanked him much for that.
 
A loaf of bread,' the Walrus said,
      Is what we chiefly need:
Pepper and vinegar besides
      Are very good indeed —
Now if you're ready, Oysters dear,
      We can begin to feed.'
 
But not on us!' the Oysters cried,
      Turning a little blue.
After such kindness, that would be
      A dismal thing to do!'
The night is fine,' the Walrus said.
      Do you admire the view?
 
It was so kind of you to come!
      And you are very nice!'
The Carpenter said nothing but
      Cut us another slice:
I wish you were not quite so deaf —
      I've had to ask you twice!'
 
It seems a shame,' the Walrus said,
      To play them such a trick,
After we've brought them out so far,
      And made them trot so quick!'
The Carpenter said nothing but
      The butter's spread too thick!'
 
I weep for you,' the Walrus said:
      I deeply sympathize.'
With sobs and tears he sorted out
      Those of the largest size,
Holding his pocket-handkerchief
      Before his streaming eyes.
 
O Oysters,' said the Carpenter,
      You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?'
      But answer came there none —
And this was scarcely odd, because
      They'd eaten every one."
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Mckarma said:

- I'm a Trump supporter - IQ between 140 and 155.  

Ok. I'm a bit smarter but no worries. Can you please explain how things like the injecting bleach, stuff about covid going to disappear, slow down testing,, etc. are outweighed by the x values things you like? For me, they are automatic disqualifications.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

A question?

do those photo's make you feel better about yourself?

If so, ask yourself why? 

 

Not at all. Scared is more like it. We have always had an army of morons, but until now they weren't in charge of anything. They have tasted real power now and aren't going to give it up easily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

You're right - everyone should give serious and thoughtful consideration to the political positions of these people and work at convincing them to change.

image.png.9ce13dfa3985df2512ed1ca22809360f.pngimage.png.ba1323b1da42752c4847f147a25fafdb.pngimage.png.362889a8ea0d2b224a13d1f5a017d92e.pngimage.png.ea7a9b4d2f9768d2775d6555db354445.pngimage.png.7cd7b011a5c246d43393a0129d3f8267.pngimage.png.ea25ecbb3a3f68e8f9044910f6d008f8.pngimage.png.24ae1b34c48d3b07a3817a89dfad0da8.png

@Fah Kiew Tu   said, "You need to get at least 10% to 20% of them back to a position of at least neutral and listening."  

I know that the photos you post are not at all indicative of all Trump supporters. I have relatives who support him, and they are decent people.  

Then again, I have been refusing to listen to @Fah Kiew Tu and am just another Progressive who doesn't have a clue.   So what the fuck do I know?  Maybe I should post my IQ numbers here, as a futile plea for credibility. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

You're right - everyone should give serious and thoughtful consideration to the political positions of these people and work at convincing them to change.

My favorite is the "I'd rather be Russian than Democrat" guys.  It speaks volumes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, benwynn said:

Maybe I should post my IQ numbers here, as a futile plea for credibility. 

Dunning-Kruger also applies to bragging about your IQ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

100%. no one ever won anyone over with contempt.

I agree this should have been the nations response to Trump.

Obviously, there is a flaw in your logic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NeedAClew:

 

The IQ thing was a joke that nobody understood.  So I posted a thought about that earlier.  I'm definitely not stoooopid.  

 

The other things you are worried about (covid related stuff): I really don't care.  Trump isn't the one designing "cures" or "treatments".  No president will ever be that person.  I care more that he isn't interested in wars and has reduced world tension.  I also care about other policies that he has enacted.  Do I like the guy?  No.  Not even remotely.  I care about policies that may make a difference in the world and the US.  Socialism is a no go for me.  The ideology of some people is that we are all pure at heart and care about one another more than ourselves.  It's a great warm and fuzzy feeling to say "I care".  But the reality of human nature is that self preservation is much more important and fuck everyone else when it counts.  An example is the original "New Green Deal" contained a thought, and I'm paraphrasing "If people don't want to work, they will be provided for" .  That is socialism.  No one will fucking work if there is no "carrot" in which they receive more of a benefit.  It is the selfish nature of our makeup and it won't change for a long time.  At some point in the future, if everything is completely automated and mankind doesn't have to "labor" in order to receive benefit then we absolutely need to transition to socialism and even communism where there is no ownership of property.  We are a long way from that and we need to  move down that road at a moderate rate.  We can't jump to it because it will be detrimental to those that have no power.  You will, in fact, hurt those you are working to protect.  

 

Yes, capitalism is harsh, but it is effective in lifting people out of poverty.  It requires people to be productive.  To me, it is a stopgap until we automate.

 

Sorry you don't feel the need to communicate Ben.  I thought you were reaching across to actually discuss, but apparently you either didn't want to follow up or maybe you just skipped my post.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Mckarma said:

communism where there is no ownership of property. 

/facepalm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok  @Mckarma thanks for replying. I know presidents don't do lab science but exacerbating and amplifying contempt for science is imo not good. Leads to misunderstanding how it works and thinking new knowledge is "flip flopping." Also to the extent you want the govt to have good scientists to check and balance industry, even fund research (unless you think that's socialism too) a top down contempt for science does not attract good people to that workplace. 

Socialism? I am actually not a liberal. But I see too many people climb onto the Trump Tea Wagon because they think otherwise the undeserving "they" will get free shit. And then I wonder if they wonder why their tea mates are carrying Confederate battle flags. I would rather have my tax dollars go to free cheese than have kluxers called "good people" and I guess I also don't like a prez whose foreign policy includes kissing up to Putin, Little Rocket Man, and any other dictator who says his hands aren't small at all. 

And self preservation? The Donald failed when he made covid protections a laughingstock for snowflakes. Thanks, assholes and don't expect me to spend any money on your businesses ever. Like never. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mathystuff said:
18 minutes ago, Mckarma said:

communism where there is no ownership of property. 

/facepalm

Kinda hard to have a valid opinion when your "facts" are bullshit.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ishmael said:

Kinda hard to have a valid opinion when your "facts" are bullshit.

It's like a different language created by twisting words into unrecognizable caricatures of themselves.

Taking 15mins to get at least a wikipedia level of understanding of words you use really isn't that hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Mckarma said:

NeedAClew:

 

The IQ thing was a joke that nobody understood.  So I posted a thought about that earlier.  I'm definitely not stoooopid.  

 

The other things you are worried about (covid related stuff): I really don't care.  Trump isn't the one designing "cures" or "treatments".  No president will ever be that person.  I care more that he isn't interested in wars and has reduced world tension.  I also care about other policies that he has enacted.  Do I like the guy?  No.  Not even remotely.  I care about policies that may make a difference in the world and the US.  Socialism is a no go for me.  The ideology of some people is that we are all pure at heart and care about one another more than ourselves.  It's a great warm and fuzzy feeling to say "I care".  But the reality of human nature is that self preservation is much more important and fuck everyone else when it counts.  An example is the original "New Green Deal" contained a thought, and I'm paraphrasing "If people don't want to work, they will be provided for" .  That is socialism.  No one will fucking work if there is no "carrot" in which they receive more of a benefit.  It is the selfish nature of our makeup and it won't change for a long time.  At some point in the future, if everything is completely automated and mankind doesn't have to "labor" in order to receive benefit then we absolutely need to transition to socialism and even communism where there is no ownership of property.  We are a long way from that and we need to  move down that road at a moderate rate.  We can't jump to it because it will be detrimental to those that have no power.  You will, in fact, hurt those you are working to protect.  

 

Yes, capitalism is harsh, but it is effective in lifting people out of poverty.  It requires people to be productive.  To me, it is a stopgap until we automate.

 

Sorry you don't feel the need to communicate Ben.  I thought you were reaching across to actually discuss, but apparently you either didn't want to follow up or maybe you just skipped my post.

 

 

 

 

What The Actual Fuck :unsure:

In what alternative universe did Trump reduce world tension and in what alternative universe is there ANY serious proposal to pay people who are just not in the mood to go work?

You do realize you have been brainwashed into thinking that the choices are Trump or Lenin, right? The actual communist/Marxist left in the USA couldn't fill a schoolbus, let alone get any serious policy passed :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

A question?

do those photo's make you feel better about yourself?

If so, ask yourself why?

No, they make me despair for the future of the States.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, benwynn said:

Then again, I have been refusing to listen to @Fah Kiew Tu and am just another Progressive who doesn't have a clue.   So what the fuck do I know?  Maybe I should post my IQ numbers here, as a futile plea for credibility. 

No, just tell us truthfully how big your boat is and how much money you have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

No, just tell us truthfully how big your boat is and how much money you have.

I had lots more money before I started buying German cars and sailboats.

Share this post


Link to post