Bristol-Cruiser

The Vaccination Passport

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6 minutes ago, LenP said:

current 7 day moving average of Covid deaths is 2,262

2,262 X 365 = 825,630

825,630 > 650,000

 

By that ill-thought math, one day with a lot of auto accident deaths would then put auto accidents at the leading cause of death in the United States.

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10 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

The Spanish Flu (which more accurately should be called the Fort Riley Kansas Flu IMHO) did not disappear.

Mikey, the people back then weren't stupid. In fact they were quite clever about discovering cause/effect relationships, analyzing, and producing everything from electricity to new medicines.

"Shitty intubation" yeah have you ever figured out what this even is? What are the alternatives? Still a mask denier?

- DSK

I didn't claim it disappeared, that was Lonely Boy. Tell him.

I told him that it didn't disappear. But his area of expertise is trolling, so it didn't really sink in.

As for shitty intubation, they don't do it that way any longer, and few people are dying. Argue with the doctors who don't do it the proven shitty way any longer.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

You've temporarily stopped COVID by locking down your country.

Indeed we have. Saved thousands of lives while keeping the economy moving along nicely. Now we can all move about freely in our beautiful safe country. 

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37 minutes ago, mikewof said:

I didn't claim it disappeared, that was Lonely Boy. Tell him.

I told him that it didn't disappear. But his area of expertise is trolling, so it didn't really sink in.

As for shitty intubation, they don't do it that way any longer, and few people are dying. Argue with the doctors who don't do it the proven shitty way any longer.

Can you name the last instance of a person dying of Spanish Flu mike? Or do you just want to play semantics to avoid reality?

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41 minutes ago, mikewof said:

By that ill-thought math, one day with a lot of auto accident deaths would then put auto accidents at the leading cause of death in the United States.

Better wear a face mask when driving mike. You don’t want to catch an auto accident.

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1 hour ago, AJ Oliver said:

Come on Mike, that is beyond preposterous ..  

$ 500 million to engineer a little plastic gizmo ?? Seriously ??

I'll wager you are off by a factor of 1,000 

What Is an EpiPen and Who Needs It? | Atlanta Allergy & Asthma

So - AJ is in for claiming that engineering the Epi-pen cost no more than $500,000.

What better post to demonstrate just how little engineering he actually knows.

I have NFI what it actually cost but as an ex-project manager for R&D stuff, I have a good grasp of what you get done for $500K. And it's the square root of fuck-all.

OK, that's a fair explanation. AJ is equating the cost to his achievements in scientific R&D. And that *is* the square root of fuck-all.

FKT

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53 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Nonsense.

About 650,000 Americans die each year from heart disease.

Then stay at least 6 feet away from fat cunts smoking cigarettes. You don’t want to catch heart disease.

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1 hour ago, AJ Oliver said:

Come on Mike, that is beyond preposterous ..  

$ 500 million to engineer a little plastic gizmo ?? Seriously ??

I'll wager you are off by a factor of 1,000 

What Is an EpiPen and Who Needs It? | Atlanta Allergy & Asthma

Maybe mike headed up the project and spent 20 hours everyday arguing on the internet about shit he knows nothing about instead of actually working. Like he does now.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

...

As for shitty intubation, they don't do it that way any longer, and few people are dying. Argue with the doctors who don't do it the proven shitty way any longer.

They haven't changed the way people are intubated, I can guarantee.

The settings on the ventilators they are connected to are different.

Find out what "intubated" is before proclaiming yourself smarter than the doctors, Mikey

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

- DSK

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14 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

They haven't changed the way people are intubated, I can guarantee.

The settings on the ventilators they are connected to are different.

Find out what "intubated" is before proclaiming yourself smarter than the doctors, Mikey

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

- DSK

Excuse me. They are intubated the same way. Apologies for the words.

However the ventillation protocol is absolutely different. Not only is it used less, but the response and settings no longer kill COVID patients.

And by the way, we're all doctors here. Some of medical doctors some are are medical physics doctors. As a rule, clinicians don't get as much chance to focus on research since they are clinicians. The medical research project to which I am currently assigned has that problem, the medical doctor has very little time to do research, she is busy treating patients with COVID-19.

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48 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Maybe mike headed up the project and spent 20 hours everyday arguing on the internet about shit he knows nothing about instead of actually working. Like he does now.

Maybe you should thank God that you don't have a child with anaphylaxis.

One shaving of a tree nut at the wrong time and without intervention, will kill her. If you were in this position, it would behoove you to learn a good bit about the intervention.

I get that's at odds with your internet trolling job.

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46 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Can you name the last instance of a person dying of Spanish Flu mike? Or do you just want to play semantics to avoid reality?

https://www.google.com/search?q=last+person+to+die+of+Spanish+Flu

This fucking amazing new invention, take a look.

It didn't really go away, it just mutated to be less deadly and became less differentiated from the many many other strains of flu

- DSK

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2 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Excuse me. They are intubated the same way. Apologies for the words.

However the ventillation protocol is absolutely different. Not only is it used less, but the response and settings no longer kill COVID patients.

And by the way, we're all doctors here. Some of medical doctors some are are medical physics doctors. As a rule, clinicians don't get as much chance to focus on research since they are clinicians. The medical research project to which I am currently assigned has that problem, the medical doctor has very little time to do research, she is busy treating patients with COVID-19.

I am very definitely not a doctor. I have far more respect for real doctors than you

OTOH I am not a slinger of ego-inflating bullshit

- DSK

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53 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

So - AJ is in for claiming that engineering the Epi-pen cost no more than $500,000.

What better post to demonstrate just how little engineering he actually knows.

I have NFI what it actually cost but as an ex-project manager for R&D stuff, I have a good grasp of what you get done for $500K. And it's the square root of fuck-all.

OK, that's a fair explanation. AJ is equating the cost to his achievements in scientific R&D. And that *is* the square root of fuck-all.

FKT

I'm guessing on the $500 million. I have cut open the auto-injector and it was a good bit more complicated in the plastics engineering than the metered dose inhalers which I research for my job, and those easily loft above $100 million and $200 million even without the pharma research that goes into the micronized doseages inside.

Then they supposedly had to reformulate the actual medicine inside of those auto-injectors to give them a multi-year shelf stability in hot climates, freezing climates, UV and O3 exposure to the autoinjector, and the rest.

A common new Phama R&D costs about $1.5 billion these days, if they could get that autoinjector and medicine out the door for $0.5 billion, including FDA compliance, I'm quite sure that they would consider it a deliriously good deal.

And just as an aside, in an area that I do know and do have direct experience, the micronized powder in the metered dose inhalers is a wonder of nanoscale processing. They found a way to keep the powder from clumping inside in the CFC chamber. I know of experimentalists in National Labs that would have a hard time doing that with state of the art nanoscale powder equipment.

I don't begrudge the pharma industry for their high prices, though I do wish that there were ways for working class people to get the better quality medicines.

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11 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I am very definitely not a doctor. I have far more respect for real doctors than you

OTOH I am not a slinger of ego-inflating bullshit

- DSK

I am a real doctor.

I'm not necessarily proud of that. Nor do I brag about it. But I am. A lot of medical technologies that have saved millions of lives would simply not exist if not for medical physicists. We are real doctors. In fact, physicians only recently became "doctors", they didn't used to ahve that designation.

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Can you name the last instance of a person dying of Spanish Flu mike? Or do you just want to play semantics to avoid reality?

You claimed it magically disappeared. It did not do that.

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None of this explains why they went from $25 to $350 over the last year or so.  And why there is now a class action lawsuit.

Now do insulin.

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9 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

None of this explains why they went from $25 to $350 over the last year or so.  And why there is now a class action lawsuit.

Now do insulin.

I am quite sure that it had something to do with the insurance companies, and I am also sure that they never cost $25 without the insurance company footing a good bit of that cost.

I remember when my daughter was 2, the auto-injector that my then-decent insurance covered a good chunk of, came to about $150. And I was happy to get it, I thought it was a bargain, in fact.

Later, when I had different insurance, they were $50 or so, and we got one per year, they were good for two years, iirc. They probably hit $350 because the insurance companies were in a power game with the manufacturers. They probably cost more than $350 from the manufacturers.

I don't know anything about insulin.

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32 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

None of this explains why they went from $25 to $350 over the last year or so.

That's an easy one. It's known as 'enhancing shareholder value'.

FKT

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If I had the spare dollars and time off, I would use my passport and go to the UK and get vaccinated!!

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1 minute ago, billy backstay said:

If I had the spare dollars and time off, I would use my passport and go to the UK and get vaccinated!!

There's only 800,000 doses max, the UK needs 67 million and with the current government and Brexit bullshit.............don't hold your breath.

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12 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

If I had the spare dollars and time off, I would use my passport and go to the UK and get vaccinated!!

If it tops out at say, 30% efficacy, (based on the flu vaccine's 40% efficacy, having been around for decades) with an IDR in your age group of about 0.15, you can just take a few shots of Mount Gay and get pretty dang close to the total results of the COVID vaccine.

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Just now, mikewof said:

If it tops out at say, 30% efficacy, (based on the flu vaccine's 40% efficacy, having been around for decades) with an IDR in your age group of about 0.15, you can just take a few shots of tequila and get pretty dang close to the total results of the COVID vaccine.

 

What happened to 90% efficacy?  94 for Morerna....

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5 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

What happened to 90% efficacy?  94 for Morerna....

Mount Gay has a 72% efficacy, which is pretty good for rum.

You can improve the efficacy up to 78% by switching to Milagro Silver tequila.

And course you can add another 4% by adding a half-decent cigar.

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1 minute ago, mikewof said:

Mount Gay has a 72% efficacy, which is pretty good for rum.

You can improve the efficacy up to 78% by switching to Milagro Silver tequila.

And course you can add another 4% by adding a half-decent cigar.

 

Pass the bong Mikey, my turn for a hit!  Caribaya Gold Rum is nearly as good as Mt. Gay at nearly half the price, for a handle.  Never cared for Tequila or cigars, and gave up cigs decades ago.  Sea Ice Vodka is good as Stoli IMHO, for less than half the price......

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31 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

What happened to 90% efficacy?  94 for Morerna....

Don't bother to try to educate our favorite mail-order PhD....  

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

I am quite sure that it had something to do with the insurance companies, and I am also sure that they never cost $25 without the insurance company footing a good bit of that cost.

I remember when my daughter was 2, the auto-injector that my then-decent insurance covered a good chunk of, came to about $150. And I was happy to get it, I thought it was a bargain, in fact.

Later, when I had different insurance, they were $50 or so, and we got one per year, they were good for two years, iirc. They probably hit $350 because the insurance companies were in a power game with the manufacturers. They probably cost more than $350 from the manufacturers.

I don't know anything about insulin.

Insurance did foot the bill to get it to $25.  No doubt.  Same insurance, plus my Exes added on top, it's $350 this year.

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35 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

What happened to 90% efficacy?  94 for Morerna....

Now he's saying the vaccines aren't as effective as the trials demonstrate? What a fucking dangerous quack.  Our own resident anti-science loon. 

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7 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

Now he's saying the vaccines aren't as effective as the trials demonstrate? What a fucking dangerous quack.  Our own resident anti-science loon. 

Its not exactly new news is it!  he's been a bloviating quack on just about every topic discussed in this place since he arrived.

His only aim is to distract from the original and topic and skew it for his own purposes, he's leader without a cult.

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47 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Mount Gay has a 72% efficacy, which is pretty good for rum.

You can improve the efficacy up to 78% by switching to Milagro Silver tequila.

And course you can add another 4% by adding a half-decent cigar.

No.  Answer the question.  What happened to the 90-94-100% cited by Pfizer and Moderna?  Do you know something they don't know?

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

Maybe you should thank God that you don't have a child with anaphylaxis.

One shaving of a tree nut at the wrong time and without intervention, will kill her. If you were in this position, it would behoove you to learn a good bit about the intervention.

I get that's at odds with your internet trolling job.

Jesus Mike - you know that we have really moved on down here since you were here in 1974. We now have colour TV, inside toilets and we have heard of anaphylaxis. One of our closest family friends and his Daughter who dated my son for some time both have it. Him to fish and her to the peanut protein. As a sailing coach we all have training in the use of Epipens and we carry them on all our boats. I have even had to admisitor one to one of the opti kids I was coaching many years ago. Peanuts of any form are banned from most schools down here and have been for years.

You see Mike, just like with Covid 19, Australia is the Adult in the Anaphylaxis room as well.  I would think that down your way carrying an epipen is like wearing a facemask. Only scared leftie snowflakes would do it.

 

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

The medical research project to which I am currently assigned has that problem, the medical doctor has very little time to do research, she is busy treating patients with COVID-19.

She is what? How the fuck can she be treating patients of something that is fake? No one dies from it - your data clearly shows that! I think you should report her to your project director. She is clearly just shopping and going to the Movies and shit everyday.

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20 minutes ago, mad said:

Its not exactly new news is it!  he's been a bloviating quack on just about every topic discussed in this place since he arrived.

His only aim is to distract from the original and topic and skew it for his own purposes, he's leader without a cult.

But he is a cu.. Oh. 'Cult'.

My bad, play on.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

If it tops out at say, 30% efficacy, (based on the flu vaccine's 40% efficacy, having been around for decades) with an IDR in your age group of about 0.15, you can just take a few shots of Mount Gay and get pretty dang close to the total results of the COVID vaccine.

It is lucky you are a doctor Mike so you can stitch up your arsehole after ripping those facts out.

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2 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

But he is a cu.. Oh. 'Cult'.

My bad, play on.

I like how he says, "the medical doctor".  Because he's probably a Chiropractor. 

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:
2 hours ago, roundthebuoys said:

None of this explains why they went from $25 to $350 over the last year or so.

That's an easy one. It's known as 'enhancing shareholder value'.

I believe it actually went to $600 and the FDA said "Woa, we got  lot of Congressmen who are getting very angry calls about this... you need to up your PAC contributions or lower the price"

- DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

I believe it actually went to $600 and the FDA said "Woa, we got  lot of Congressmen who are getting very angry calls about this... you need to up your PAC contributions or lower the price"

- DSK

Need a method to remove patent protection and/or import restrictions say from other 1st World countries in cases like that.

Sure, you can mark up what was profitable at $25 to whatever your greedy wizened heart wants - but now you face competition in the marketplace.

FKT

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3 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Need a method to remove patent protection and/or import restrictions say from other 1st World countries in cases like that.

Sure, you can mark up what was profitable at $25 to whatever your greedy wizened heart wants - but now you face competition in the marketplace.

FKT

TBF it wasn't $25 for any other reason than me, my ex-wife and both of our employers were paying $1000's per month for health insurance.

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1 minute ago, roundthebuoys said:

TBF it wasn't $25 for any other reason than me, my ex-wife and both of our employers were paying $1000's per month for health insurance.

Just for information I googled the cost in Australia:

https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/33739/epipen-adrenaline-adult-prescription-only

Read it and weep....

FKT

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3 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Just for information I googled the cost in Australia:

https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/33739/epipen-adrenaline-adult-prescription-only

Read it and weep....

FKT

Yep. I've never been proud of magically being born here.  It's charming at times, but it's just a place to live.

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9 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Just for information I googled the cost in Australia:

https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/33739/epipen-adrenaline-adult-prescription-only

Read it and weep....

FKT

Trouble is the fuckers only last 12 months and have to be replaced. They have been hard to get sometimes.

Going into a Chemist whorehouse gives me sensory overload. The place just screams at you.

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8 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

TBF it wasn't $25 for any other reason than me, my ex-wife and both of our employers were paying $1000's per month for health insurance.

The actual cost price in Australia is about $80 each - so around $50 US.

In most cases the government covers part of that, bringing it down to $25 US for most punters, and free for those who need the support.

And Mikey, your daughter only 'has anaphylaxis' when she is actually suffering a reaction. The rest of the time she is just at risk of anaphylaxis due to an allergy.

Words matter. They enable clear communications and demonstrate that someone knows what the fuck they are talking about.

FWIW, I do empathise with what you have gone through. My son also had a tree nut allergy and was at risk of anaphylaxis for the first 8 or so years of his life. We had epipens pretty much everywhere. Now the little fucker steals my cashews.

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1 minute ago, Se7en said:

The actual cost price in Australia is about $80 each - so around $50 US.

In most cases the government covers part of that, bringing it down to $25 US for most punters, and free for those who need the support.

And Mikey, your daughter only 'has anaphylaxis' when she is actually suffering a reaction. The rest of the time she is just at risk of anaphylaxis due to an allergy.

Words matter. They enable clear communications and demonstrate that someone knows what the fuck they are talking about.

FWIW, I do empathise with what you have gone through. My son also had a tree nut allergy and was at risk of anaphylaxis for the first 8 or so years of his life. We had epipens pretty much everywhere. Now the little fucker steals my cashews.

He picks them out of the mixed nuts planters container, right?  I used to do that too.  Fuck Hazel Nuts.

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Just now, roundthebuoys said:

He picks them out of the mixed nuts planters container, right?  I used to do that too.  Fuck Hazel Nuts.

Why would I buy mixed nuts when I just want the cashews? It'd be like buying american beer for the alcohol content.

 

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1 minute ago, Se7en said:

Why would I buy mixed nuts when I just want the cashews? It'd be like buying american beer for the alcohol content.

 

LOL.  Same page.  

Easy on "American Beer" Seattle IPA is golden drops from God.

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

You claimed it magically disappeared. It did not do that.

No Mike your beloved ex president said those words. I never said Magically. As SF said it morphed into a less deadly and infectious virus. Or to put it another way, the Spanish flu that killed 50 million, disappeared.

Again Mike what is your point? Are you saying that this virus (which is only a flu as you say) will hang around for years? And remain a major health concern (for those stupid sheep who believe the bullshit about it killing people anyway)

We can all take comfort that Dr Mike Wolfsy and Dr Donald Trump both agree that bullshit is the best defense against covid 19.

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6 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Now the little fucker steals my cashews.

Cashews are not nuts. Like an Apple, they are a swollen stem.

As mikewolfsy

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Just now, roundthebuoys said:

LOL.  Same page.  

Easy on "American Beer" Seattle IPA is golden drops from God.

Yeah cheap shot. You guys have some great craft breweries now. I pretty much drink IPAs or Porters, depending on the temperature. 'Polygamy Porter' from Utah was one I remember really liking.

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Just now, Se7en said:

Yeah cheap shot. You guys have some great craft breweries now. I pretty much drink IPAs or Porters, depending on the temperature. 'Polygamy Porter' from Utah was one I remember really liking.

I spend WAY too much time in the SLC airport drinking their stuff.  Try anything from Freemont Brewery in Seattle.

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3 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Cashews are not nuts. Like an Apple, they are a swollen stem.

I thought that is why they are called 'tree nuts', rather than just nuts? Cashews and Pistachios were two that he was allergic to, with the worst alergy being to peanuts. And yes I know that peanuts are not nuts either. We have a bunch of stickers left over from when we were in vietnam that say "If I eat peanut oil I will die" in vietnamese. Or perhaps they say "Give my Father BaBaBa and he won't care what you feed me" as that is what seemed to actually happen.

I was tempted to respond with "I didn't say they were nuts, I said they are fucking Goofy", but it's too early to be drinking here.

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3 minutes ago, Se7en said:

I thought that is why they are called 'tree nuts', rather than just nuts? Cashews and Pistachios were two that he was allergic to, with the worst alergy being to peanuts. And yes I know that peanuts are not nuts either. We have a bunch of stickers left over from when we were in vietnam that say "If I eat peanut oil I will die" in vietnamese. Or perhaps they say "Give my Father BaBaBa and he won't care what you feed me" as that is what seemed to actually happen.

I was tempted to respond with "I didn't say they were nuts, I said they are fucking Goofy", but it's too early to be drinking here.

What, isn't the sun up yet?

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1 hour ago, Se7en said:

I thought that is why they are called 'tree nuts', rather than just nuts? Cashews and Pistachios were two that he was allergic to, with the worst alergy being to peanuts. And yes I know that peanuts are not nuts either. We have a bunch of stickers left over from when we were in vietnam that say "If I eat peanut oil I will die" in vietnamese. Or perhaps they say "Give my Father BaBaBa and he won't care what you feed me" as that is what seemed to actually happen.

I was tempted to respond with "I didn't say they were nuts, I said they are fucking Goofy", but it's too early to be drinking here.

As i understand it the anaphylactic reaction is caused by a protein that exists on the nut, not the nut itself. For example macadamia nuts are fine.

I am sure that Dr Mike will be along soon to correct me if I am wrong, and no one knows nuts like him.

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1 hour ago, roundthebuoys said:

I spend WAY too much time in the SLC airport drinking their stuff.  

Did you see Jack Sparrow sleeping there?

319 Fat Man Sleeping Photos and Premium High Res Pictures - Getty Images

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3 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Just for information I googled the cost in Australia:

https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/33739/epipen-adrenaline-adult-prescription-only

Read it and weep....

FKT

And that price is in Aussie pesos.

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

No Mike your beloved ex president said those words. I never said Magically. As SF said it morphed into a less deadly and infectious virus. Or to put it another way, the Spanish flu that killed 50 million, disappeared.

Again Mike what is your point? Are you saying that this virus (which is only a flu as you say) will hang around for years? And remain a major health concern (for those stupid sheep who believe the bullshit about it killing people anyway)

We can all take comfort that Dr Mike Wolfsy and Dr Donald Trump both agree that bullshit is the best defense against covid 19.

I didn't write that it's the flu, I suspect you've been reading Randumb.

Yes, the virus and its strains and mutations will hang around for years, because SARS-CoV-2 is in fact a mutation of another coronavirus that can trace its lineage back a few humdreds of thousands of years at least.

And no, it probably won't be a major health concern for the same reasons that all the other coronaviruses are not major health concerns, because the novelty wears off and the clinicians also get better at treating people who need it.

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22 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

And that price is in Aussie pesos.

It's the same thing here. Very good insurance will give you one two-pack per year for free.

Very shitty insurance is $650 for a 2-pack.

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

As i understand it the anaphylactic reaction is caused by a protein that exists on the nut, not the nut itself. For example macadamia nuts are fine.

I am sure that Dr Mike will be along soon to correct me if I am wrong, and no one knows nuts like him.

The anaphylaxis is a response to a protein in the meat of the nut. Not the oil, not the carbohydrate, just the protein, and that protein is in the nut. A tree nut anaphylaxis is supposedly to all tree nuts, though the response can even spread to non-nuts, like peanuts, soybeans and seeds, and even nuts that aren't nuts ... like a macadamia? I dunno, but if you know someone with an anaphylaxis, you don't fuck around with it.

I responded to your tolling in this case lest you try to give someone with an anaphylaxis a nut.

And as I wrote, I know this stuff reasonably well because my daughter's life depended on me knowing this stuff reasonably well.

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4 hours ago, Se7en said:

The actual cost price in Australia is about $80 each - so around $50 US.

In most cases the government covers part of that, bringing it down to $25 US for most punters, and free for those who need the support.

And Mikey, your daughter only 'has anaphylaxis' when she is actually suffering a reaction. The rest of the time she is just at risk of anaphylaxis due to an allergy.

Words matter. They enable clear communications and demonstrate that someone knows what the fuck they are talking about.

FWIW, I do empathise with what you have gone through. My son also had a tree nut allergy and was at risk of anaphylaxis for the first 8 or so years of his life. We had epipens pretty much everywhere. Now the little fucker steals my cashews.

I believe that's the difference between an allergy and an anaphylaxis, allergies can be developed and lost with age.

My daughter is 20 now, and according the specialist, she will most likely have the anaphylaxis for the rest of her life. He didn't make the same distinction you did, though I don't doubt the differences across the pond. From what I've seen, her reaction isn't getting lighter with age, it's getting worse. She lives her life around the anaphylaxis ... she doesn't eat food that doesn't come from a factory with verifiable ingredients, unless she makes it on her own, or comes from someone who fully understands that using "just a little bit of almond flour" could be a potential death sentence.

Restaurants, cafes and even a coffee shop, she's been burned too many times to trust people blindly anymore. Wait staff will say whatever they are told, and sometimes outright lie. But her body knows, it goes haywire within seconds. She's an adult now and can carry her own epipen. Back when she was in school, she wasn't allowed to keep her epipen with her. (Fucked up school rules) It had to live with the nurse for some reason beyond comprehension. An old co-worker has twin boys with anaphylaxis to milk protein, they wear the epipens on their legs, both of them. I think she had to get something close to a state-order to let them go to school with their own epipens.

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4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Trouble is the fuckers only last 12 months and have to be replaced. They have been hard to get sometimes.

Going into a Chemist whorehouse gives me sensory overload. The place just screams at you.

They're certified for a year, which is pretty good stability. But according the word of those who have only had old ones at hands, they're reliable and usable for several years. People who need them tend to keep the expired ones around, you know never know ... shoved into cars, friend's houses, family's houses, wherever. An old one is better than none.

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3 minutes ago, mikewof said:

I responded to your tolling in this case lest you try to give someone with an anaphylaxis a nut.

Why would I give an anaphylaxis a nut? Do you see me as some kind of deranged child killer Mike? As I have just explained to you I, like most responsible (Australian) parents, are aware of the risks. My mates daughter can eat Macadamias. Now before that vein on your shiny palate starts throbbing, I am not suggesting, nor in any way encouraging, anaphylactics to start slamming Hawaiian trail mix, I am just stating a fact as part of this discussion.

And thank you for the information.

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4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Jesus Mike - you know that we have really moved on down here since you were here in 1974. We now have colour TV, inside toilets and we have heard of anaphylaxis. One of our closest family friends and his Daughter who dated my son for some time both have it. Him to fish and her to the peanut protein. As a sailing coach we all have training in the use of Epipens and we carry them on all our boats. I have even had to admisitor one to one of the opti kids I was coaching many years ago. Peanuts of any form are banned from most schools down here and have been for years.

You see Mike, just like with Covid 19, Australia is the Adult in the Anaphylaxis room as well.  I would think that down your way carrying an epipen is like wearing a facemask. Only scared leftie snowflakes would do it.

In your case, I like to be clear, because the "actual lonely boy" is only slightly more intelligent than the "trolling lonely boy."

Sometimes it's hard to know with which one I'm conversing.

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1 minute ago, mikewof said:

They're certified for a year, which is pretty good stability. But according the word of those who have only had old ones at hands, they're reliable and usable for several years. People who need them tend to keep the expired ones around, you know never know ... shoved into cars, friend's houses, family's houses, wherever. An old one is better than none.

Yeah we do on the boats for a second 12 months. A Doc I discussed it with said it should be fine. There was a real shortage here about 2 years ago.

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Just now, mikewof said:

In your case, I like to be clear, because the "actual lonely boy" is only slightly more intelligent than the "trolling lonely boy."

Sometimes it's hard to know with which one I'm conversing.

I hear these voices sometimes...

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6 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Why would I give an anaphylaxis a nut? Do you see me as some kind of deranged child killer Mike? As I have just explained to you I, like most responsible (Australian) parents, are aware of the risks. My mates daughter can eat Macadamias. Now before that vein on your shiny palate starts throbbing, I am not suggesting, nor in any way encouraging, anaphylactics to start slamming Hawaiian trail mix, I am just stating a fact as part of this discussion.

And thank you for the information.

You're welcome.

And it's not just children. It's adults too ... at least the ones who have managed to make it to adulthood.

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1 minute ago, LB 15 said:

I hear these voices sometimes...

Do you have to press your ear against the toilet seat to hear them better?

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4 hours ago, roundthebuoys said:

No.  Answer the question.  What happened to the 90-94-100% cited by Pfizer and Moderna?  Do you know something they don't know?

 

What is "90-94-100%"? Do you have a cite for that?

Remember that the SARS-CoV-2 virus has an IDR of less than 0.5%. So is the 94% on a sample population? If that's the case, they can get it all the way up to 99.85% or so with nothing more than water. But I think the efficacy of a vaccine means how much does it reduce the mortality of the impacted population.

In that case, the flu vaccine hovers below 50% and it's been around for decades. Does it seem reasonable that a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine can hit "90-94-100%" having been around for all of a few months? If so, that would literally mean than 99.9998% of the people who take it wouldn't die from COVID-19, since the IDR is less than 0.5%.

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3 hours ago, mikewof said:

 

In that case, the flu vaccine hovers below 50% and it's been around for decades. Does it seem reasonable that a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine can hit "90-94-100%" having been around for all of a few months? If so, that would literally mean than 99.9998% of the people who take it wouldn't die from COVID-19, since the IDR is less than 0.5%.

How many strains of could 19 are there? How many of influenza?

I understand, without much research, that is is about 3 of the first and hundreds of the second. Indeed, here in AU, we keep hearing that our cases come from the US. Trumpian virus, as it were.

So perhaps that's why a vaccine for could can be more effective than the "guess which strains of influenza will be active this year" approach that is taken with the flu.

Oh, I won't quibble with your usage of anaphylaxis. I understand it to be the body's immune system massively overreacting to a foreign substance. So an allergy causes an anaphylactic reaction, with anaphylactic shock being the bad reaction we really don't want.

Red wine makes me sneeze, so I only drink wine that is worth the price. Unfortunately I've managed to collect 1000 odd bottles that meet that criteria, and I'm not leaving any of them for my kids.

Ah choo

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1 hour ago, Se7en said:

Red wine makes me sneeze, so I only drink wine that is worth the price. Unfortunately I've managed to collect 1000 odd bottles that meet that criteria, and I'm not leaving any of them for my kids.

Ah choo

I plan on leaving my children at least 40 tonnes of machine tools to dispose of...

FKT

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On 12/6/2020 at 6:42 AM, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Seems to me that we are close to a time when one will need a vaccination certificate to get lots of services. You want to get on the airplane, get on the cruise ship, go to a public school, enter the grocery store, etc - show us the certificate. You have a right not to get the shot but that comes with certain losses of privileges in society.

I'd like to suggest a little yellow star on the lapel.

A9u8HnqDMK7o-hQsfFYjikKEQ21nZX7uJRgOh_xm

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11 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Trouble is the fuckers only last 12 months and have to be replaced. They have been hard to get sometimes.

Going into a Chemist whorehouse gives me sensory overload. The place just screams at you.

Are they still susceptible to high temperatures? seem to remember that above 25 deg C was not recommended.

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14 hours ago, mikewof said:

 

And by the way, we're all doctors here.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  *ahem*

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8 hours ago, Se7en said:

How many strains of could 19 are there? How many of influenza?

I understand, without much research, that is is about 3 of the first and hundreds of the second. Indeed, here in AU, we keep hearing that our cases come from the US. Trumpian virus, as it were.

So perhaps that's why a vaccine for could can be more effective than the "guess which strains of influenza will be active this year" approach that is taken with the flu.

Oh, I won't quibble with your usage of anaphylaxis. I understand it to be the body's immune system massively overreacting to a foreign substance. So an allergy causes an anaphylactic reaction, with anaphylactic shock being the bad reaction we really don't want.

Red wine makes me sneeze, so I only drink wine that is worth the price. Unfortunately I've managed to collect 1000 odd bottles that meet that criteria, and I'm not leaving any of them for my kids.

Ah choo

We would need to compare apples to apples. Flu is a wide collection of variants. If we compare all Coranviruses to all Flu viruses? I assume similar, except that the vast majority of coronaviruses are harmless, so we don't even bother to identify them.

But SARS-CoV-2 is just one new type of coronavirus, if we want to compare, it would be to just one type of flu, say, H3N2. In that case, I suspect the number of identified strains would be similar.

Flu viruses are very different from Coronaviruses and Rhinoviruses (those last two are more similar) due to the surface energy of the virion. Flu is less virulent than either coronaviruses or rhinoviruses because the flu virions aren't evolved to handle extreme temperatures the way coronaviruses and rhinoviruses are.

That has to do with the way they infect us. Coronavirus and rhinovirus usually infect the upper respiratory system most efficiently, while flu viruses infect the lower respiratory system better. And before any of us heard of COVID-19, it was why we called a coronavirus and a rhinovirus infection a "cold" and a flu infection the "flu."

But there are specific reasons why it's so much harder to vaccinate against rhinoviruses and coronaviruses than flu, and it's partly because of that virion. Scientific American had an excellent analysis of it from some years back. Due to the surface energy of the virion, and the need to stay "hardy" the all-weather virions shed strains and substrains much faster than the flu, https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-havent-we-cured-the-common-cold-yet/

But the IDR of SARS-CoV-2 is very low, lower than the flu, the difference is that as a coronavirus it's more virulent than the flu. So most of us who catch the coronavirus (or rhinovirus) are no worse for it. So the COVID-19 vaccine can show huge successes depending on how it's measured. If we measure it on the low-risk groups (i.e. most everyone other than old people) then the survival rate for a SARS-CoV-2 infection even unvaccinated is already about 99.915%.

But of course, this is the first time in history than such a large, global effort has been made against a lowly coronavirus, so hopefully you're right, and it will be cheap, available to anyone who asks and highly effective.

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12 hours ago, mikewof said:

It's the same thing here. Very good insurance will give you one two-pack per year for free.

Very shitty insurance is $650 for a 2-pack.

I don't have very shitty insurance and it's still $650 for a two pack.

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Wonder about those who have religious beliefs that might preclude vaccinations, if Jehovah's witnesses won't take other people's blood to save their lives they're likely to have reservations about other people's RNA.

 

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2 minutes ago, TwoBirds said:

Wonder about those who have religious beliefs that might preclude vaccinations, if Jehovah's witnesses won't take other people's blood to save their lives they're likely to have reservations about other people's RNA.

 

Well, the Covid might thin out their ranks something fierce.

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5 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

I don't have very shitty insurance and it's still $650 for a two pack.

Then your insurance isn't covering Mylan's version at all, that's the  price with zero insurance.

The Auvi generic manufacturer has a coupon for you. It's sometimes cheaper to bypass your insurance. Here's the link, https://www.auvi-q.com/get-auvi-q?gclid=Cj0KCQiA5bz-BRD-ARIsABjT4njQJryNNOyNIBdX_yP_Mgc7Afkn2ZsIx7MyrfNkrgxcp19OxwbmkfAaAmT4EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds#product-offers

You might have awesome insurance, but for whatever reason, they're not covering your epinephrine pens from Mylan. Did you try the AdrenaClick? That's a cheaper genetic alternative to the Epi-Pen. It has a slightly different auto injector mechanism. Even with zero insurance, they are about $100/each, with insurance they can be as low as $10 from the copay.

Here is a link from GoodRX that should help you,

https://www.goodrx.com/blog/generic-epipen-is-still-expensive-heres-how-you-can-save/

Best of luck.

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3 minutes ago, TwoBirds said:

Wonder about those who have religious beliefs that might preclude vaccinations, if Jehovah's witnesses won't take other people's blood to save their lives they're likely to have reservations about other people's RNA.

Not just the vaccination, but also the dye markers, which are a tattoo, but with UV inks. Lots of religions don't want their children being tattooed.

Part of the reason I have a medical card from when I was a kid is because my state offered that as an alternative to the BCG shoulder marker. I remember well after they gave us the BCG vaccine at school, they just touched the shoulder marker, instead of pressing it in. I got the BCG as a kid, but unlike my contemporaries on the East Coast, I don't have the shoulder mark. I do still have my vaccination card though.

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10 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Then your insurance isn't covering Mylan's version at all, that's the  price with zero insurance.

The Auvi generic manufacturer has a coupon for you. It's sometimes cheaper to bypass your insurance. Here's the link, https://www.auvi-q.com/get-auvi-q?gclid=Cj0KCQiA5bz-BRD-ARIsABjT4njQJryNNOyNIBdX_yP_Mgc7Afkn2ZsIx7MyrfNkrgxcp19OxwbmkfAaAmT4EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds#product-offers

You might have awesome insurance, but for whatever reason, they're not covering your epinephrine pens from Mylan. Did you try the AdrenaClick? That's a cheaper genetic alternative to the Epi-Pen. It has a slightly different auto injector mechanism. Even with zero insurance, they are about $100/each, with insurance they can be as low as $10 from the copay.

Here is a link from GoodRX that should help you,

https://www.goodrx.com/blog/generic-epipen-is-still-expensive-heres-how-you-can-save/

Best of luck.

I have good insurance, with the exes piggybacked for the kids.  We have Mylan.  We just went with what was prescribed.  Maybe we can ask about the alternatives.  Thanks.

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54 minutes ago, mikewof said:

We would need to compare apples to apples. Flu is a wide collection of variants. If we compare all Coranviruses to all Flu viruses? I assume similar, except that the vast majority of coronaviruses are harmless, so we don't even bother to identify them.

But SARS-CoV-2 is just one new type of coronavirus, if we want to compare, it would be to just one type of flu, say, H3N2. In that case, I suspect the number of identified strains would be similar.

Flu viruses are very different from Coronaviruses and Rhinoviruses (those last two are more similar) due to the surface energy of the virion. Flu is less virulent than either coronaviruses or rhinoviruses because the flu virions aren't evolved to handle extreme temperatures the way coronaviruses and rhinoviruses are.

That has to do with the way they infect us. Coronavirus and rhinovirus usually infect the upper respiratory system most efficiently, while flu viruses infect the lower respiratory system better. And before any of us heard of COVID-19, it was why we called a coronavirus and a rhinovirus infection a "cold" and a flu infection the "flu."

But there are specific reasons why it's so much harder to vaccinate against rhinoviruses and coronaviruses than flu, and it's partly because of that virion. Scientific American had an excellent analysis of it from some years back. Due to the surface energy of the virion, and the need to stay "hardy" the all-weather virions shed strains and substrains much faster than the flu, https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-havent-we-cured-the-common-cold-yet/

But the IDR of SARS-CoV-2 is very low, lower than the flu, the difference is that as a coronavirus it's more virulent than the flu. So most of us who catch the coronavirus (or rhinovirus) are no worse for it. So the COVID-19 vaccine can show huge successes depending on how it's measured. If we measure it on the low-risk groups (i.e. most everyone other than old people) then the survival rate for a SARS-CoV-2 infection even unvaccinated is already about 99.915%.

But of course, this is the first time in history than such a large, global effort has been made against a lowly coronavirus, so hopefully you're right, and it will be cheap, available to anyone who asks and highly effective.

Good information Mike, thank you. However in light of what we have witnessed over the past 4 years and 8 months in particular, ‘Scientific American’ has become an oxymoron. 

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2 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Good information Mike, thank you. However in light of what we have witnessed over the past 4 years and 8 months in particular, ‘Scientific American’ has become an oxymoron. 

The efficacy of the vaccines is well documented/demonstrated by their trials.   

What's hilarious is that dumb fuck mikey is whinging about wearing masks and lock downs,  but it turns out he's also an Anti-vaxx moron.

You would think someone who doesn't want to wear a mask and hates the lock downs would be all for the vaccine. It's a huge step to getting back to normal.  IF people take it.

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5 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

The efficacy of the vaccines is well documented/demonstrated by their trials.   

What's hilarious is that dumb fuck mikey is whinging about wearing masks and lock downs,  but it turns out he's also an Anti-vaxx moron.

You would think someone who doesn't want to wear a mask and hates the lock downs would be all for the vaccine. It's a huge step to getting back to normal.  IF people take it.

The FDA just confirmed the efficacy the pharma companies put out earlier.

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50 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

The efficacy of the vaccines is well documented/demonstrated by their trials.   

What's hilarious is that dumb fuck mikey is whinging about wearing masks and lock downs,  but it turns out he's also an Anti-vaxx moron.

You would think someone who doesn't want to wear a mask and hates the lock downs would be all for the vaccine. It's a huge step to getting back to normal.  IF people take it.

And it turns out you like to fuck llamas. Since I wrote it, it must be true, right? Just like you made up a lie about being "Anti-vaxx" and therefore you are convinced that it must be true.

As for the masks, I am strongly in favor of people wearing masks, as long as those people are in operatories, clean rooms, near sensitive populations and the rest. But wearing a surgical mask while walking the dog in the park, or putting dirty masks in front of the faces of entire school's worth of children? I'm not yet convinced that the benefits outweigh the risks of putting an incubation surface in front of a face.

And for the risks of the lockdown, consider yourself fortunate that you are disconnected from those. There are parents who now have to leave their first and second graders at home alone while they go to work, since the schools are shut down here again and our state has the second highest childcare costs in the country.

Anyway Clove Hitch, let's get back the elephant in the room ... how long have you been fucking llamas? Do you raise the llamas to fuck them, or do you rent the llamas to fuck them? does Clove Hitch have a type of llama that he prefers to fuck, or will any old llama do for Clove Hitch?

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59 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

I have good insurance, with the exes piggybacked for the kids.  We have Mylan.  We just went with what was prescribed.  Maybe we can ask about the alternatives.  Thanks.

The insurance companies seem to get into these feuds with the pharma providers, when they the pharma companies won't play ball with what the insurance companies expect the meds to cost. So then the pharma companies do the end-run with their coupons and the GoodRX, et al.. The AdrenaClick injectors were discontinued for a while, but they may have come back, I'm not sure. The Auvi-Q generic is definitely still made though.

It always pisses me off when you tell the primary care person that you're on a budget, and you ask for the generic, and they either can't be bothered to check the box, or won't check the box because of the "sample" agreements.

But I do get the issue ... it costs billions of dollars to develop these medicines and get FDA compliance, and the patent protection period goes fast. So they want to recoup their costs and show healthy profits before the formulas can become generic. There is a newer type of COPD/Asthma MDI that uses a double medicine with a ring-steroid and a stimulant, in a micronized dose. It works really well, about $500 per 120-day inhaler. Those costs make the epi-pens seems cheap. But people doctors scrip them and people pay because they really do work well.

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From Dean Baker - top notch economist . . 

Why not waive patent rights and allow some poorer countries to make generic versions of the vaccine ? 

Why not ? Money  

DEAN BAKER, dean.baker1@verizon.net, @DeanBaker13

  Baker is a senior economist at the Center for Economic and Policy Research and just co-wrote the New York Times op-ed "Want Vaccines Fast? Suspend Intellectual Property Rights."

  The piece discusses a major proposal "forward by India and South Africa in October, [which] calls on the W.T.O. to exempt member countries from enforcing some patents, trade secrets or pharmaceutical monopolies under the organization’s agreement on trade-related intellectual property rights, known as TRIPs.

  "It cites the 'exceptional circumstances' created by the pandemic and argues that intellectual property protections are currently 'hindering or potentially hindering timely provisioning of affordable medical products'; the waiver would allow W.T.O. member countries to change their laws so that companies there could produce generic versions of any coronavirus vaccines and Covid-19 treatments.

  "The idea was immediately opposed by the United States, the European Union, Britain, Norway, Switzerland, Japan, Canada, Australia and Brazil. It was opposed again at another meeting in November, and again last week. ...

  "The vaccines developed by these companies were developed thanks wholly or partly to taxpayer money. Those vaccines essentially belong to the people -- and yet the people are about to pay for them again, and with little prospect of getting as many as they need fast enough."
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33 minutes ago, mikewof said:

I'm not yet convinced that the benefits outweigh the risks of putting an incubation surface in front of a face.

Did you wear one at the Trump rallies?

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