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RandyM81

Top 10 list for SF based foiler

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So I find myself between boats and thinking my next ride should be a foiler of some sort. Can I get some advice?

I'm based in SF so whatever it is needs to be reasonably robust, or at the very least when things go bang it's closer to a three figure bill than a five figure one. It's not going to be GC32 or a TF10 for this round and whatever it is it's going to race double-handed, maybe single-handed. On the other hand, I'm 6'3" and weigh about 235lbs so I don't think the Nacra 15 is going to be the ticket either.

As I sit here the Nacra F20C FCS looks pretty sweet. I could also consider an A-Class, or maybe even the Nacra F18 with full foiling and non foiling boards. I would like to be able to take my kids for a rip or show a non-sailing friend a good time every once in a while. I'd also like to be able to do some mid-distance point-to-point events. When I had the M32, the class events were awesome, but doing crazy stuff like R2AK, Southern Straits, and SB-KH were even more memorable for me. Regarding the Nacra F20C, when Frank Cammas took an Nacra F20C around Cape Horn it may have been just a stunt, but it still looked epic to me.

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I think the boat decision should have a lot to do with the events available. So what are the best events for small cats on the West Coast? I'd like to put together a schedule of maybe 6-10 annual local/regional events and 1-2 bucket list type adventures that could be anywhere.

What's the event calendar? What's the boat?

 

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Here's a few on my mind:

 

Local/Regional

- Santa Barbara to King Harbor (not sure a small cat can register).

- Newport to Ensenada (is this still a race, can a beach cat register?)

- Any multihull events in the Columbia River Gorge?

- What are the West Coast beach cat regattas? How do I not know?

 

Maybe Someday...

- Round Texel

- Stockholm Archipelago Raid (would this be fun for somebody that doesn't speak Swedish or German)

- Something on Lake Garda

 

I guess I'm pretty ignorant of what the events are for small cats in California and on the West Coast. I'm hoping it's because I'm ignorant and not because they don't exist...

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, RandyM81 said:

Regarding the Nacra F20C, when Frank Cammas took an Nacra F20C around Cape Horn it may have been just a stunt, but it still looked epic to me.

It was an epic stunt!

I wish you all the best in your quest..... I can offer no advice unless you want to go mad and go proas....

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9 hours ago, RandyM81 said:

Maybe Someday...

- Round Texel

- Stockholm Archipelago Raid (would this be fun for somebody that doesn't speak Swedish or German)

- Something on Lake Garda

Rent for the euro events, dead easy and cheaper than shipping. You can then focus on the boat for SF Bay.

You would struggle to find yourself somewhere no-one speaks English on the Stockholm Archipelago Raid or Texel. Translations are provided at the Raid Emeraude, and I suspect other events in France, so don't be put off.

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Santa Barbara to King Harbor and Newport to Ensenada as well as ORCA made a huge point of excluding certain boats such as the Roland 36 2 of 10.  Even though it was being operated by a couple of extremely experienced ocean racers and proved itself to be very fast and capable.  This all resulted in the formation of XS racing and The Border Run which was a "run what you brung" race that at its peak was quite popular and included all kinds of beachcats etc.  Interstingly, nobody ever got killed in the Border Run.  Sadly, people on an extremely "safe" mono died when they ran into an island in the N to E.  I think the N to E now features a couple of the Border Run courses but my guess is they'll continue to discourage outside the box boats.  Unfortunate, I've always believed that their snobbish attitude is a big part of what killed racing in socal.  Look at the popularity of the R2AK.  

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Go to the YouTube and check out "crossings feat. Kai Lenny and John Florence."  Really inspirational seeing young, cutting edge athletes enjoying a great boat

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F101 won foiling boat of the year for 2020--if you can find other enthusiasts you might could create your own 1design fleet.  But it is pretty small and meant to single hand or maybe carry one more along.  I've always liked the superfoilers but not sure you can sail them single handed (design crew is 3).  I like trimarans.  Haven't seen too many foilers in SF Bay except kite board foilers; but then again, I haven't looked that hard.  

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11 hours ago, RandyM81 said:

F18 Fleet is still healthy on the West Coast incl SF. There are a few Foiling Options (for fun) as well.

PM me for contacts.

 

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2 hours ago, mundt said:

Go to the YouTube and check out "crossings feat. Kai Lenny and John Florence."  Really inspirational seeing young, cutting edge athletes enjoying a great boat

They had an escort boat over & back

John John has a Youtube channel - which is always in search of new, different material

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F101, Whisper are lightweight, easy.

N15 FCS is harder to sail, a bit more powered up, you can def solo it.

N17 and N20C are full on. On the same space, you might be able to pick up a 2nd hand Flying Phantom or Phantom Essentiel - the builder has gone out of business, but there's a few boats in the US market; I think one in Texas for sale.

Don't think there's class events for any of those, unless you go a-cat or N17 (olympic circuit). Or Phantoms in Europe.

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My solution to this has been the F18 for distance events/doublehanded rips and the A-Cat for pure foiling joy. I know of a few well sorted A's for sale that aren't listed anywhere, PM me for details.

For your skill set and event wish list the F18 is hard to turn down; best bang for the buck in the performance catamaran world with plenty of events to chose from. Nationals should be in Long Beach in September 2021 and there are plenty of warm up events in Long Beach, SF and San Diego.

Next up, the late generation F20C's have the option to go between the C-boards and the full foiling kit. Honestly it is hard to touch a C-board F20 with winglets in terms of pure performance across the wind range and in the hands of experienced amateurs to semi-professionals. The FCS kit necessitates a big, strong crew, and the boat becomes a handful when the breeze is up. The real downside is the price of the boat has kept the class small and pretty well split in the U.S, and the 10' wide beam makes it hard to get the fleet together.

I would not pickup a foiler where parts support is null, though in the under 20' space, the Flying Phantom is probably the fastest catamaran out there, with the A's quickly closing the gap and probably faster upwind at this point.

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9 hours ago, hump101 said:

Rent for the euro events, dead easy and cheaper than shipping. You can then focus on the boat for SF Bay.

You would struggle to find yourself somewhere no-one speaks English on the Stockholm Archipelago Raid or Texel. Translations are provided at the Raid Emeraude, and I suspect other events in France, so don't be put off.

Does your R2AK crew Ian Anderson still live in the Netherlands? Perhaps he could help you out with a rent/charter, and with him around, getting sorted for Texel at least should be a breeze?

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20 hours ago, RandyM81 said:

It's not going to be GC32 or a TF10 for this round and whatever it is it's going to race double-handed, maybe single-handed. On the other hand, I'm 6'3" and weigh about 235lbs so I don't think the Nacra 15 is going to be the ticket either.

 

 

The TF10 shouldn't be on anyone's list ..... ever....... What a shitfight

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10 hours ago, mundt said:

Go to the YouTube and check out "crossings feat. Kai Lenny and John Florence."  Really inspirational seeing young, cutting edge athletes enjoying a great boat

This was awesome. Love it.

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1 hour ago, Sidecar said:

Does your R2AK crew Ian Anderson still live in the Netherlands? Perhaps he could help you out with a rent/charter, and with him around, getting sorted for Texel at least should be a breeze?

He does. But, I want to do some foiling on my side of the world before tackling something in Europe. Renting does seem to make sense for this sort of event when the time is right.

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32 minutes ago, breezetrees said:

Ditch Run

I think that's scored PHRF, so it might be hard to get entered.  Would be a pretty grueling race for a foiler.  Lots and lots of gybes.

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4 hours ago, MultiThom said:

I think that's scored PHRF, so it might be hard to get entered.  Would be a pretty grueling race for a foiler.  Lots and lots of gybes.

Jonny Goldsberry did it on a Moth!

Only time I flipped the M32 was on a ditch run.

You can definitely enter a beach cat. I think Pete Melvin did it on a Nacra F20C a few years ago.

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3 hours ago, RandyM81 said:

Jonny Goldsberry did it on a Moth!

Only time I flipped the M32 was on a ditch run.

You can definitely enter a beach cat. I think Pete Melvin did it on a Nacra F20C a few years ago.

Pretty sure Phillipe and Co have done it on their Carbon20 at least once. They might be a good one to try to link up with/buy a boat from.

Or: get Chad to lend you an 18, not foiling but plenty of fun on the bay. I'm sure Sid Vicious would be down.

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The thing I like about this thread is we know you’re genuinely looking to buy something and race hard.  Not another keyboard jockey dreaming in his mother’s basement.

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I've got some leads on boats, but the event list isn't there yet. I haven't had an easily trailerable boat in 20 years. With the M32 I gave up the trailer for a 40' container pretty early on. Mama Tried went everywhere on her own bottom. Had some fun cruising her a bit around the San Juan Islands, sailed down to SF, and then raced her only on the Bay and a couple Farallones races. There were some more things I wish I had done with Mama Tried but didn't. That's the way it goes. Now I want to take advantage of lighter, easier logistics. So, what can I do with 400lb boat that lives on a trailer and is ramp launchable?

Delta Ditch Run is on the list. But I've done it. What else? Anything in the Gorge? What's happening out of Alamitos Bay? Anything out of Ventura or Santa Barbara? Calling Mundt. Pacific Northwest? Tahoe?

Still need some help on this top 10 list.

 

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I just got back from taking my Nacra out for a spin. Very fun, gorgeous day. Racing?  The last nail went in that coffin with COVID. Santa Barbara probably has some semblance of small boat racing still clinging to life. Our annual Island series may get some boats out, 3 races around Anacapa in the summer. None of these crusty old geezers is gonna let you enter their races on anything that wasn’t well proven before 1876. If I was gonna foil I’d guess Long Beach would be the venue and maybe an Acat. I’ve heard the learning curve is pretty steep but the A is the only boat that somewhat consistently foils single handed and you could be in a hyper-talented fleet. If I was really serious about foiling I’d get me a kite, those guys are truly light years ahead of any other foilers. Almost any foiling boat you can name still lacks the consistent stability to really function in the ocean imho. The kite foilers are the shiznit right now, not to mention the fact that you can pack a serious kit in your trunk and store it in your closet. 

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You should check out the Cow Bay Regatta / Northwest Multihull Championships if it gets back on track after COVID.  

As Mundt noted lots of races have rather stringent safety requirements, but CBR / NWMA takes place at the beginning of August in relatively protected water with nice afternoon thermals, so the are more tolerant of beach cats. For example, Traffic often shows up, and there was a Flying Phantom there in 2015.

 

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On 12/15/2020 at 8:59 AM, MultiThom said:

F101 won foiling boat of the year for 2020--if you can find other enthusiasts you might could create your own 1design fleet.  

As I said.  Buy five of them (only be a little over 100K), then start your own venues.  A lot of races will allow you to play if you bring your own fleet.  If I was 20 years younger I'd do it.  

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1 hour ago, he b gb said:

Wow! Awesome tri, that has to be a contender for ‘best boat for Race To Alaska thread’

All it needs is a carbon pedal drive

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Not applicable for doublehanding but I've been eyeballing singlehanded foilers and the Skeeta looks like an option for non-moth weight sailors.

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On 12/20/2020 at 9:16 AM, solosailor said:

Not applicable for doublehanding but I've been eyeballing singlehanded foilers and the Skeeta looks like an option for non-moth weight sailors.

Yep, lots of kids sailing WASPs at RYC, this could be the old mans version. Why do they never show a foiling tack/gybe? 

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On 12/20/2020 at 12:16 PM, solosailor said:

Not applicable for doublehanding but I've been eyeballing singlehanded foilers and the Skeeta looks like an option for non-moth weight sailors.

I'll note that very light sailors do well on moths. Budget, boat work time, rigging & launching difficulties are, imo, the dominant barriers.

Skeeta seems on par w wasp and ufo on sailor weight. Nikki - the smaller skeeta - is aimed at kids.

In my experience, my son with 70lbs seems just on the minimum weight to have enough RM and get foiling on the UFO (and likely wazsp and skeeta as well). There's also a french kid on youtube pottering about in a moth. Righting the boat after a capsize is the problem.

Even with a chase boat, I don't like letting kids out on a boat they have no hope of righting. It's mandatory helicopter sailing, not the ethos I want to instill...

 

 

 

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On 12/21/2020 at 5:12 PM, martin 'hoff said:

I'll note that very light sailors do well on moths. Budget, boat work time, rigging & launching difficulties are, imo, the dominant barriers.

Skeeta seems on par w wasp and ufo on sailor weight. Nikki - the smaller skeeta - is aimed at kids.

In my experience, my son with 70lbs seems just on the minimum weight to have enough RM and get foiling on the UFO (and likely wazsp and skeeta as well). There's also a french kid on youtube pottering about in a moth. Righting the boat after a capsize is the problem.

Even with a chase boat, I don't like letting kids out on a boat they have no hope of righting. It's mandatory helicopter sailing, not the ethos I want to instill...

 

 

 

Just a guess, but I interpreted Solo's comment as the Skeeta aimed at folks heavier than mothsailors.

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