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Ben actually he would race if winds were reasonable but at the moment forecast was for 20kts so he suggested he wouldn't in that.

Personally I reckon that could be a convenient excuse because I can't see any advantage to him and lots of downsides.

They now have 2 weeks for development (and fix the Cunningham). I hope they have some good changes ready to bring on

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8 hours ago, Varan said:

It's those two crappy tacks on the first leg that cost LR.

Nah, they missed a shift an INEOS gained 200m in the span of a few seconds. 

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At what point do we have an honest conversation about Luna Rossa in the cup?

They've been in 6 cup cycles, made one CSS finals and been in the match once, on their first try. Their last five tries have been expensive, flashy and ultimately disappointing on the water. And it's not been for lack of resources.

I know the Kiwis love them for being on "their side" vs. Larry, but the relationship probably wouldn't be so cordial if anybody thought Prada had a chance of actually beating ETNZ.

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3 hours ago, nav said:

 

Omg just avoiding to connect to SA to see the race not knowing who won... and you get this cover on youtube... That's what I call a spoiler

Was worth watching anyway

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2 hours ago, marlowe said:

It seemed Ben pulled the plug as there were high winds predicted. With nothing to gain it wasn't worth the risk. LR we don't know about.

It's been mentioned her a bit, but the cup is definitely loosing something, (other than challengers...) with these new flashy platforms.  Gadzillion dollar boats that have a wind range of 7-20 knots of wind speed, can only race 30 minute, (college length) races for fear of breaking, can't broach, can't round up, no sail changes during a race.  Can't tell the difference between the UW leg and DW leg, (which is probably great for non-sailors).  The foiling is cool to watch and takes amazing skill to do it.  Not taking anything away from the sailors, but I just feel like this is no longer an event for "sailors".  The need for mass appeal has neutered the worlds greatest match racing event.  Bring back Freemantle or AC 2000.

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3 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

It's been mentioned her a bit, but the cup is definitely loosing something, (other than challengers...) with these new flashy platforms.  Gadzillion dollar boats that have a wind range of 7-20 knots of wind speed, can only race 30 minute, (college length) races for fear of breaking, can't broach, can't round up, no sail changes during a race.  Can't tell the difference between the UW leg and DW leg, (which is probably great for non-sailors).  The foiling is cool to watch and takes amazing skill to do it.  Not taking anything away from the sailors, but I just feel like this is no longer an event for "sailors".  The need for mass appeal has neutered the worlds greatest match racing event.  Bring back Freemantle or AC 2000.

30 minutes are not just college races, but the length of race for most high-performance dinghy's.  It also happens to be similar lengths to pretty much every big match racing event. For every close race that we wish went on longer, there will be a race where you are glad it's only 30 minutes because it is over by the first windward mark.

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Couldn't agree more with RobbieB.  Spin sets and gybes were such a cool part of the whole experience.  

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6 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

It's been mentioned her a bit, but the cup is definitely loosing something, (other than challengers...) with these new flashy platforms.  Gadzillion dollar boats that have a wind range of 7-20 knots of wind speed, can only race 30 minute, (college length) races for fear of breaking, can't broach, can't round up, no sail changes during a raceCan't tell the difference between the UW leg and DW leg, (which is probably great for non-sailors).  The foiling is cool to watch and takes amazing skill to do it.  Not taking anything away from the sailors, but I just feel like this is no longer an event for "sailors".  The need for mass appeal has neutered the worlds greatest match racing event.  Bring back Freemantle or AC 2000.

Bold: Indeed.
Plus, raw speed and the foiling wear off rather fast as they become the new normal. Afterwards, not much (action like sail changes etc.) is left.

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6 hours ago, nav said:

 

With the cunnighham problem on ineos i was surprised that everyone is talking about a single cunnigham. Assuming this means that there is one ram for both sails. I would have thought that there could be some advantage to controling each skin independently as with the outhauls. 

Anyone know if this is restricted by the rule?

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Don't think 2 is barred, but if you had 2 you would need to keep them consistent or you would mess up the foil shape of the 2 skins I think

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11 minutes ago, sailer99 said:

30 minutes are not just college races, but the length of race for most high-performance dinghy's.  It also happens to be similar lengths to pretty much every big match racing event. For every close race that we wish went on longer, there will be a race where you are glad it's only 30 minutes because it is over by the first windward mark.

I agree. The race length is fine, but get rid of those blasted boundaries. Stupid rules for the sake of TV are a pox upon the sport.

11 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Bold: Indeed.
Plus, raw speed and the foiling wear off rather fast as they become the new normal. Afterwards, not much (action like sail changes etc.) is left.

It’s been exciting to watch in the way that a home run derby is exciting to watch. I’d rather see a baseball game.

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9 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Bold: Indeed.
Plus, raw speed and the foiling wear off rather fast as they become the new normal. Afterwards, not much (action like sail changes etc.) is left.

Thinking back on the IACC days, my preferred type of boat, it took to the last cycle with those boats to get good racing as seen in the AC32 Cup final.  Yesterday’s action was exciting, even had some decent pre-start drama.  If yesterday is a sign of things to come we could have competitive racing in the first cycle of a new boat class. Which could lead to even better racing for the following cycle.  I can get live with that no matter how much I long for displacement boats, or boats I understand. 

Having said that, the unknown is ETNZ.  It’s their rule so the odds they will just spank whichever challenger reaches the final is pretty high.  We shall see. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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2 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Don't think 2 is barred, but if you had 2 you would need to keep them consistent or you would mess up the foil shape of the 2 skins I think

Yeah i can see that it could screw the shape a bit. Maybe differential system with a single ram and on adjustable offset. 

Just thinking of the possisbilites to create a flattter inner skin and deeper outer skin. 

Sure the design teams would have thought about it but wonder why they decided agaisnt it. 

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I think I remember the commentary saying the cunningham was loaded to 6 tons!
No wonder Ken was bricking it with the poss of one of his sails ripping apart infront of the world.

Makes my hand pulled 4:1 cunningham seem a bit pathetic.

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1 hour ago, BBA said:

With the cunnighham problem on ineos i was surprised that everyone is talking about a single cunnigham. Assuming this means that there is one ram for both sails. I would have thought that there could be some advantage to controling each skin independently as with the outhauls. 

Anyone know if this is restricted by the rule?

I suspect that with these sails, the cunningham works mainly by putting compression into the mast; that was certainly the case when I sailed much lower-tech skiffs. It's a very different mechanism to stretching the cloth in a dacron sail. If that is the case, a second cunningham wouldn't be that useful (unless one of them breaks, of course!)

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RRS changes...

https://docs.google.com/a/acofficials.org/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNvZmZpY2lhbHMub3JnfGFjMzYtb2ZmaWNpYWwtbm90aWNlYm9hcmR8Z3g6NjBmNjdmN2I5MzUyZmQwOA

 

- delete exception to rule for after a capsize
- Clarification that umpires penalties do not require a 'Y Flag protest'
- Exception for capsize removed
- New (f) - add capsize as reason for umpires to penalise

 

looks like the capsize gave them something to think about :D

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4 minutes ago, nav said:

RRS changes...

https://docs.google.com/a/acofficials.org/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNvZmZpY2lhbHMub3JnfGFjMzYtb2ZmaWNpYWwtbm90aWNlYm9hcmR8Z3g6NjBmNjdmN2I5MzUyZmQwOA

 

- delete exception to rule for after a capsize
- Clarification that umpires penalties do not require a 'Y Flag protest'
- Exception for capsize removed
- New (f) - add capsize as reason for umpires to penalise

 

looks like the capsize gave them something to think about :D

@Kate short for Bob capsize.. not laid on their side ;-) 

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Interesting. So as the rule was, teams could only accept outside help to recover crew, not save the boat from sinking. So AM could have been DSQed. Not that it would have made any difference

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33 minutes ago, Dave S said:

I suspect that with these sails, the cunningham works mainly by putting compression into the mast; that was certainly the case when I sailed much lower-tech skiffs. It's a very different mechanism to stretching the cloth in a dacron sail. If that is the case, a second cunningham wouldn't be that useful (unless one of them breaks, of course!)

Right, yeah that makes sense. So essentally it controls the bend of the mast which effects sail shape rather than affecting the sail directly. 

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41 minutes ago, Dave S said:

I suspect that with these sails, the cunningham works mainly by putting compression into the mast; that was certainly the case when I sailed much lower-tech skiffs. It's a very different mechanism to stretching the cloth in a dacron sail. If that is the case, a second cunningham wouldn't be that useful (unless one of them breaks, of course!)

Interesting.

I gather that compression of the mast is to induce mast bend and thus reduce sail camber? If so, isn't it a rather inefficient way of achieving this compared to the running backstays?

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12 minutes ago, BBA said:

Right, yeah that makes sense. So essentally it controls the bend of the mast which effects sail shape rather than affecting the sail directly. 

bending the mast and taking on Cunningham do not achieve all of the same results.

  where bending the rig will flatten in general, move the draft slightly aft and twist off the top.

  Cunny will also flatten and twist open, but move the draft forward.

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Great race to watch. Even non sailirors in the house found it very interesting to watch.  

Hope the will skip the mirror display of vmg speed or any other set of data for se the semi's. Makes it hard to read.

Speed A/ VMG B  | Dist. | VMG B\ Speed B

Would rather have

Speed A / Speed B  | Dist | etc.

 

Screenshot_20210123-185211.jpg

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Probably has more in common with a downhaul on a camber induced sail, induces mast bend, opens up the upper leech

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8 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Yeah, Jays. A great race. I hope LRPP have the goods on AM, or my pick for the Challenger won't even make the finals! Too bad we have to wait to the end of next week to find out.

Well dude, I picked AM as challengers so colour me dumb arse!

Still not convinced INEOS have this in the bag though. They've kinda shot their load and I'm guessing LR and AM are only just beginning to stroke.

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8 hours ago, dullers said:

 I have never heard of any Kiwi support a Brit in any sport.

Not true! Sometimes you poms play the Ozzies.

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29 minutes ago, magnum said:

Hope the will skip the mirror display of

Speed A/ VMG B  | Dist. | VMG B\ Speed B

 

Rather   Speed A / Speed B  | Dist | etx.

 

Screenshot_20210123-185211.jpg

Yes, that display of the data is very hard to read.  I find myself using two fingers on the screen to actually compare the data between the boats.  And the distance does not indicate who is  ahead.  

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Well Prada threw on the new foils and it still didn’t get them over the line. So are they firing blanks? 
 

a windy series against AM then Prada are in big trouble as AM we’re smoking them on their light air foils.. let alone moded for high wind. 

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This is not over or hardly begone.  The last stage is knock out so anyone of the 3 can win.  I hope the last stage is similar to the match conditions so the challenger has the most chance of taking the cup and TNZ has a real test on it's hands.  If the challenger is a strong wind boat and the cup is raced in light conditions then TNZ might win easily which is not what they or us want?  There is no satisfaction in beating the weakest opponent?  The best victory is over the best challenger ?!?

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1 minute ago, The_Alchemist said:

Yes, that display of the data is very hard to read.  I find myself using two fingers on the screen to actually compare the data between the boats.  And the distance does not indicate who is  ahead.  

Then it rolls over to a new page just when you have figured out where the VMG is

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Prolly not but, at some stage they'll have to race in 20 knots and then we'll see who can perform a tack bareaway without choking. 

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3 hours ago, RobbieB said:

It's been mentioned her a bit, but the cup is definitely loosing something, (other than challengers...) with these new flashy platforms.  Gadzillion dollar boats that have a wind range of 7-20 knots of wind speed, can only race 30 minute, (college length) races for fear of breaking, can't broach, can't round up, no sail changes during a race.  Can't tell the difference between the UW leg and DW leg, (which is probably great for non-sailors).  The foiling is cool to watch and takes amazing skill to do it.  Not taking anything away from the sailors, but I just feel like this is no longer an event for "sailors".  The need for mass appeal has neutered the worlds greatest match racing event.  Bring back Freemantle or AC 2000.

Honestly I think the Prada Cup schedule is f@cked. Ineos are in the final after 5 races. 5!!! We've got multi-gasqwillion dollar boats flying around and they race 5 times. After 2 boats. Also, why were the rounds split over 2 days? Surely with 25 min races they could all race twice and finish a round in one day. Not enough sailing. As Billy said, "it jusht doesn't make sensh". 

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4 minutes ago, Jandals said:

Honestly I think the Prada Cup schedule is f@cked. Ineos are in the final after 5 races. 5!!! We've got multi-gasqwillion dollar boats flying around and they race 5 times. After 2 boats. Also, why were the rounds split over 2 days? Surely with 25 min races they could all race twice and finish a round in one day. Not enough sailing. As Billy said, "it jusht doesn't make sensh". 

Fuck off and watch darts then buddy. 

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9 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Hook line and sinker. Like a blind whale. Fair play, @kenergy

:unsure:

Mate, I fucking loved that race, it proved what a lot of us have been saying about these boats and teams.

 

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9 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

00R8.thumb.jpg.6e552720a45a769bd382829375a3b74b.jpg

Yeah, but also the boats are different so the wind measurements are going to be different. At these speeds and angles, getting accurate numbers is a very tall order.

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4 hours ago, RobbieB said:

It's been mentioned her a bit, but the cup is definitely loosing something, (other than challengers...) with these new flashy platforms.  Gadzillion dollar boats that have a wind range of 7-20 knots of wind speed, can only race 30 minute, (college length) races for fear of breaking, can't broach, can't round up, no sail changes during a race.  Can't tell the difference between the UW leg and DW leg, (which is probably great for non-sailors).  The foiling is cool to watch and takes amazing skill to do it.  Not taking anything away from the sailors, but I just feel like this is no longer an event for "sailors".  The need for mass appeal has neutered the worlds greatest match racing event.  Bring back Freemantle or AC 2000.

Ok Boomer... Sail changes? Really!?! Don't give a fuck.

Foiling is the future of high performance sailing. They're foiling around the world FFS...

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I can not find who to give credit for these amazing graphs !

@dorox  ?  Can some one enlighten me please ?

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4 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

I can not find who to give credit for these amazing graphs !

@dorox  ?  Can some one enlighten me please ?

TWS data for GBR is consistently higher by 1-2 kn. This is comparing to other boats' TWS data, as well as stationary wind instruments on the course (buoys, committee boat, etc.). Hence it is wrong to compare TWS between boat to boat. One can't say GBR was sailing in consistently stronger breeze. 

VMG/TWS data becomes skewed as a result of TWS data: i.e. GBR would be showing smaller VMG/TWS, because their TWS  is higher.

The best measure for a boat to boat comparison would be simple VMG.

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36 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

00R8.thumb.jpg.6e552720a45a769bd382829375a3b74b.jpg

Ah well I am sure that will console Jimmy tonight.. 

and of course Prada had better vmg they had a working Cunningham.

how bad has it got to suck constantly being beaten by a Shit boat :lol:

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4 hours ago, RobbieB said:

It's been mentioned her a bit, but the cup is definitely loosing something, (other than challengers...) with these new flashy platforms.  Gadzillion dollar boats that have a wind range of 7-20 knots of wind speed, can only race 30 minute, (college length) races for fear of breaking, can't broach, can't round up, no sail changes during a race.  Can't tell the difference between the UW leg and DW leg, (which is probably great for non-sailors).  The foiling is cool to watch and takes amazing skill to do it.  Not taking anything away from the sailors, but I just feel like this is no longer an event for "sailors".  The need for mass appeal has neutered the worlds greatest match racing event.  Bring back Freemantle or AC 2000.

Now I've seem a few, the appeal is dropping off.  Having sail changes etc did liven things up.

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1 hour ago, magnum said:

Great race to watch. Even non sailirors in the house found it very interesting to watch.  

Hope the will skip the mirror display of vmg speed or any other set of data for se the semi's. Makes it hard to read.

Speed A/ VMG B  | Dist. | VMG B\ Speed B

Would rather have

Speed A / Speed B  | Dist | etc.

 

Screenshot_20210123-185211.jpg

VMG for me, but I agree there has to be a clearer way to get that info up on screen than that, not to mention the too fast roll-over, or,  as above , the fact that it may all be rubbish anyway :D

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1 hour ago, Salty Seacock said:

Fuck off and watch darts then buddy. 

Fuck your face with a biro, wanker. 

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39 minutes ago, Living_in_a_box said:

Ok Boomer... Sail changes? Really!?! Don't give a fuck.

Foiling is the future of high performance sailing. They're foiling around the world FFS...

Ok you millennial fuck, this version of sailing is god awful boring to watch. A couple boats ping pong their way from side to side. The development was ten times more interesting than the racing. Really cool boats, but I miss real sailing. 

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6 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Ben actually he would race if winds were reasonable but at the moment forecast was for 20kts so he suggested he wouldn't in that.

Personally I reckon that could be a convenient excuse because I can't see any advantage to him and lots of downsides.

They now have 2 weeks for development (and fix the Cunningham). I hope they have some good changes ready to bring on

In anything other than high winds, I reckon the pros would be:

1. All practice is good. 

2. Since the result is not on the line , they could afford to experiment with a few new things and see how they measure vs a competitor

3. They can back off any time to avoid damage

4. Entertains the fans.

5. Set a record of 8:0

The Cons

1. Currently Ineos have the "unbeaten" mystique.  If LP won the race, they could go into eventual final (if they beat AM) with a sense they can beat Ineos.  Personally I think LR believes they can beat Ineos and knows they can. The races were close. So this is not really a con

2. Risk of damage.  But they have to get out there and practice anyway....so as long as conditions are the same as they would practice in....why not liven it up with a race? 

Overall, if the weather is okay, I would see every reason for them to go out. LR wants as much racing as possible to sharpen up for the matches vs AM. Ineos, even more so because they will be sitting out the semi final.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Not true! Sometimes you poms play the Ozzies.

I support the All Blacks and anybody beating Australia  :P

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5 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Ok you millennial fuck, this version of sailing is god awful boring to watch. A couple boats ping pong their way from side to side. The development was ten times more interesting than the racing. Really cool boats, but I miss real sailing. 

I like generational fights as much as the next old guy but the oldest millennial is now 40 and Jimmy Spithill, Sir Ben & Dean Barker are all older than that now...  

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4 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Overall, if the weather is okay, I would see every reason for them to go out. LR wants as much racing as possible to sharpen up for the matches vs AM. Ineos, even more so because they will be sitting out the semi final.

Ben made it clear in the post race press conference that INEOS would not be racing Sunday. The official AC website shows the next race in five days.

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1 hour ago, Jandals said:

Honestly I think the Prada Cup schedule is f@cked. Ineos are in the final after 5 races. 5!!! We've got multi-gasqwillion dollar boats flying around and they race 5 times. After 2 boats. Also, why were the rounds split over 2 days? Surely with 25 min races they could all race twice and finish a round in one day. Not enough sailing. As Billy said, "it jusht doesn't make sensh". 

Im disappointed its over as well. So exciting to watch.  But the reality is that Ineos won 5: 0.   They beat the 2nd place boat 3 times out of 3 meetings. That kind of tactical dominance  deserves to go through to a final.

I would have loved AM to stay in the competition . I would have liked Ineos and LP to race tomorrow as an exhibition race.....but five to zip is the result and it is not due to the schedule. If AM was still there and Ineos made a couple of mistakes then schedule would have gone to the end.

The schedule however is well designed with semi and then final because all three boats are still in this with lots of racing to go and lots of questions unanswered.

Ineos was 0-6 then 6-0.   Which Ineos is showing up at the final?

 

 

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7 minutes ago, marlowe said:

Ben made it clear in the post race press conference that INEOS would not be racing Sunday. The official AC website shows the next race in five days.

I know but I would have liked to see them go out and match up again....that last race was fantastic.

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16 minutes ago, Jandals said:
1 hour ago, Salty Seacock said:

Fuck off and watch darts then buddy. 

Fuck your face with a biro, wanker. 

This is going well:lol:

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58 minutes ago, Living_in_a_box said:

Ok Boomer... Sail changes? Really!?! Don't give a fuck.

Foiling is the future of high performance sailing. They're foiling around the world FFS...

Boomer.  Yep you got that right and I was sure the post would tell my age, but it is what it is.  As far as "foiling around the earth" it appears the conditions need to be in a particular zip code for that foiling to be effective.  Then throw in our dirty oceans to carbon bits skimming the water at 40 knots and you have a precarious life span of the product. 

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9 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Boomer.  Yep you got that right and I was sure the post would tell my age, but it is what it is.  As far as "foiling around the earth" it appears the conditions need to be in a particular zip code for that foiling to be effective.  Then throw in our dirty oceans to carbon bits skimming the water at 40 knots and you have a precarious life span of the product. 

If it makes you feel better, I’m with you. Sincerely, Gen X. 

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23 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

In anything other than high winds, I reckon the pros would be:

1. All practice is good. 

2. Since the result is not on the line , they could afford to experiment with a few new things and see how they measure vs a competitor

3. They can back off any time to avoid damage

4. Entertains the fans.

5. Set a record of 8:0

The Cons

1. Currently Ineos have the "unbeaten" mystique.  If LP won the race, they could go into eventual final (if they beat AM) with a sense they can beat Ineos.  Personally I think LR believes they can beat Ineos and knows they can. The races were close. So this is not really a con

2. Risk of damage.  But they have to get out there and practice anyway....so as long as conditions are the same as they would practice in....why not liven it up with a race? 

Overall, if the weather is okay, I would see every reason for them to go out. LR wants as much racing as possible to sharpen up for the matches vs AM. Ineos, even more so because they will be sitting out the semi final.

Hmm add in while Prada are being dicks and trying to win the battle of tiny non performance related  infractions with the jury in a hope of beating INEOS. I can’t imagine Ben is feeling like throwing them a charity race tomorrow. 
 

 

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14 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Boomer.  Yep you got that right and I was sure the post would tell my age, but it is what it is.  As far as "foiling around the earth" it appears the conditions need to be in a particular zip code for that foiling to be effective.  Then throw in our dirty oceans to carbon bits skimming the water at 40 knots and you have a precarious life span of the product. 

I'm too lazy to google, how old do you have to be to be a boomer?:P

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On 1/19/2021 at 3:23 PM, chesirecat said:

ETNZ getting a good gander at AM's composite structure.

<Sheesh moad on>

beefor kyndlee bilding them identikel panel  at theer rekwest,

(perhaps for free)

<Sheesh moad off>

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5 minutes ago, Monkey said:
15 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Boomer.  Yep you got that right and I was sure the post would tell my age, but it is what it is.  As far as "foiling around the earth" it appears the conditions need to be in a particular zip code for that foiling to be effective.  Then throw in our dirty oceans to carbon bits skimming the water at 40 knots and you have a precarious life span of the product. 

If it makes you feel better, I’m with you. Sincerely, Gen X. 

And me, went and googled, I'm gen X as well.

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5 hours ago, RobbieB said:

It's been mentioned her a bit, but the cup is definitely loosing something, (other than challengers...) with these new flashy platforms.  Gadzillion dollar boats that have a wind range of 7-20 knots of wind speed, can only race 30 minute, (college length) races for fear of breaking, can't broach, can't round up, no sail changes during a race.  Can't tell the difference between the UW leg and DW leg, (which is probably great for non-sailors).  The foiling is cool to watch and takes amazing skill to do it.  Not taking anything away from the sailors, but I just feel like this is no longer an event for "sailors".  The need for mass appeal has neutered the worlds greatest match racing event.  Bring back Freemantle or AC 2000.

Boats that can actually sail in ocean courses free from headlands without being destroyed would be a good start.

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

 And the distance does not indicate who is  ahead.  

They put a 1 and 2 to left of left hand data, and to right of right hand data to show who is ahead. I'm not saying it's a good way of displaying, but the data is there.

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On 1/20/2021 at 4:52 AM, erdb said:

Just found this on the other thread. Kenny explains it much better:

Although at the end he says once the rudder is "lost" it could go either down or up. I'd argue that from what we saw with other similar accidents, the stern always go down and the boat always jumps out.

 

ahem

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/123918958/americas-cup-team-nz-capsizes-during-training-spin-against-british-boat

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I appreciate a good sail change as much as the next man, but there is some superb sailing going on if you look. The stern cameras are brilliant

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On 1/20/2021 at 10:50 AM, he b gb said:

Going by the amount of this style of wipeout (virtually every syndicate has had one or more) I’m wondering  if there is a major design fault that needs remedying. Shit, the so called squall/gust was only 20 kts. Do they need to work out how to  depower the rig faster or steer better with that tiny amount of rudder in the water??? They are amazing sailboats but I’m not sure if they are sorted out enough to race, let alone in the Americas Cup.  

<major design fault>

Support tryangul haz apez at aft (rong) end ov bote,  opposyt to moast ice / land yots *

AC75 aft poynt ov support (rudder taylplayn) iz on senterlyn ,  (unlyk AC50)

frunt poynt ov support iz WAY off to looard (>3 m)

Hents:

Az bote heelz to looard, angul ov attak ov mayn INKREESSEZ (="sheeting in")

 

 

*hwitsh ar staybul re heeling

eksept when rongly dezynd:

image.jpeg.90f0ee62f41b48feb485e1ac1201b639.jpeg

 

 

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18 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

I appreciate a good sail change as much as the next man, but there is some superb sailing going on if you look. The stern cameras are brilliant

Unlike Formula 1, the AC 75s can overtake without going into the pits for a tire change.

 

Im a traditional boomer sailor and I just love this stuff. It is so exciting and fast.  Furthermore it emphasizes tactics and skills in a way that no other AC has ever done before.  Nine lead changes in one race! A couple down to boat handling and the other 7 due to shifts or getting into more pressure.  The boat speeds are sufficiently close that at the moment the better tactics will win the race.

In the old AC races in displacement boats, boat speed and winning the start were dominant. 

In these boats, getting into a little more pressure can change everything.   It is so much more tactical . 

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2 hours ago, Living_in_a_box said:

Ok Boomer... Sail changes? Really!?! Don't give a fuck.

Foiling is the future of high performance sailing. They're foiling around the world FFS...

1 hour ago, Monkey said:

Ok you millennial fuck, this version of sailing is god awful boring to watch. A couple boats ping pong their way from side to side. The development was ten times more interesting than the racing. Really cool boats, but I miss real sailing. 

Ok you 2 calm down. nothing is perfect. Except maybe Land Sailing at Ivanpah. 

  1. High Speed Sailing that makes these expensive water toys look slow.
  2. You don't get wet or have to wash off the salt water.
  3. It's a W/L course or you can set up a Rally distance type course. A "poker run" race is really fun.
  4. Hotels and Casinos and Vegas Escorts just down the highway.
  5. And it all costs a lot less than traditionally sailing which means you have more for #3.

 

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6 hours ago, WetHog said:

Thinking back on the IACC days, my preferred type of boat, it took to the last cycle with those boats to get good racing as seen in the AC32 Cup final.  Yesterday’s action was exciting, even had some decent pre-start drama.  If yesterday is a sign of things to come we could have competitive racing in the first cycle of a new boat class. Which could lead to even better racing for the following cycle.  I can get live with that no matter how much I long for displacement boats, or boats I understand. 

Having said that, the unknown is ETNZ.  It’s their rule so the odds they will just spank whichever challenger reaches the final is pretty high.  We shall see. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

You're coming round, Hoggie. :)

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28 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

I appreciate a good sail change as much as the next man, but there is some superb sailing going on if you look. The stern cameras are brilliant

Even caught one of Ineos crew pissing of the transom during their postponement:lol:

Screenshot_20210122-194320.png

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You get to watch the best sailors in the world in the most advanced boats every made with beautiful vistas, you pay nothing for it and still you complain?

Organising a regatta isn’t that hard, if you want to watch lead mines race offshore go set up an event.

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1 hour ago, mad said:

And me, went and googled, I'm gen X as well.

Never mind, Mad. Nobody's perfect, right? ;-)

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6 hours ago, Sisu3360 said:

I agree. The race length is fine, but get rid of those blasted boundaries. Stupid rules for the sake of TV are a pox upon the sport.

It’s been exciting to watch in the way that a home run derby is exciting to watch. I’d rather see a baseball game.

Also a struggling sport favored by older men....,,

Foiling is the future 

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2 hours ago, dorox said:

TWS data for GBR is consistently higher by 1-2 kn. This is comparing to other boats' TWS data, as well as stationary wind instruments on the course (buoys, committee boat, etc.). Hence it is wrong to compare TWS between boat to boat. One can't say GBR was sailing in consistently stronger breeze. 

VMG/TWS data becomes skewed as a result of TWS data: i.e. GBR would be showing smaller VMG/TWS, because their TWS  is higher.

The best measure for a boat to boat comparison would be simple VMG.

Keep in mind some teams have their windspeed instrument at the masthead, others at the end of the bowsprit.  That may account for 1-2 kts difference...but I haven't looked at pics to see if thats the case here.

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1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

Im disappointed its over as well. So exciting to watch.  But the reality is that Ineos won 5: 0.   They beat the 2nd place boat 3 times out of 3 meetings. That kind of tactical dominance  deserves to go through to a final.

I would have loved AM to stay in the competition . I would have liked Ineos and LP to race tomorrow as an exhibition race.....but five to zip is the result and it is not due to the schedule. If AM was still there and Ineos made a couple of mistakes then schedule would have gone to the end.

The schedule however is well designed with semi and then final because all three boats are still in this with lots of racing to go and lots of questions unanswered.

Ineos was 0-6 then 6-0.   Which Ineos is showing up at the final?

 

 

In comparison, 1995 there were 24 rounds before the LV finals and 11 in the semis before best of 9. 

If all have gone to schedule they would have raced 8 times each? Before the finals? 

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36 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Unlike Formula 1, the AC 75s can overtake without going into the pits for a tire change.

 

Im a traditional boomer sailor and I just love this stuff. It is so exciting and fast.  Furthermore it emphasizes tactics and skills in a way that no other AC has ever done before.  Nine lead changes in one race! A couple down to boat handling and the other 7 due to shifts or getting into more pressure.  The boat speeds are sufficiently close that at the moment the better tactics will win the race.

In the old AC races in displacement boats, boat speed and winning the start were dominant. 

In these boats, getting into a little more pressure can change everything.   It is so much more tactical . 

I need to rewatch this from the stern views.

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28 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Never mind, Mad. Nobody's perfect, right? ;-)

I rarely am. :P

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17 minutes ago, Jandals said:

In comparison, 1995 there were 24 rounds before the LV finals and 11 in the semis before best of 9. 

If all have gone to schedule they would have raced 8 times each? Before the finals? 

This is the most disappointing AC since the 1988 Cat-Dog fiasco.

An already very light racing schedule has been decimated by poor AM turning turtle.

If ETNZ defend successfully, they need to lift their game bigly.

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40 minutes ago, sosoomii said:

Organising a regatta isn’t that hard, if you want to watch lead mines race offshore go set up an event.

What & deal with the greater unwashed sailor????? errr no!..... much better to be another b.n (& I believe my bowman's card is still valid, though by age I am alledgedly forbidden fwd of the main hatch).......

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30 minutes ago, cbulger said:

Also a struggling sport favored by older men....,,

Foiling is the future 

It definitely is, it’s called progression. 

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9 minutes ago, mad said:

I need to rewatch this from the stern views.

You do. I watch every race on the 'normal' view, then again from each of the boat stern cams. Very interesting to compare and contrast

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4 minutes ago, jaysper said:

This is the most disappointing AC since the 1988 Cat-Dog fiasco.

An already very light racing schedule has been decimated by poor AM turning turtle.

If ETNZ defend successfully, they need to lift their game bigly.

Turned turtle?? 

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3 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

You do. I watch every race on the 'normal' view, then again from each of the boat stern cams. Very interesting to compare and contrast

Thanks for the tip. 

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19 minutes ago, jaysper said:

This is the most disappointing AC since the 1988 Cat-Dog fiasco.

An already very light racing schedule has been decimated by poor AM turning turtle.

If ETNZ defend successfully, they need to lift their game bigly.

in what way?

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17 minutes ago, mad said:

Turned turtle?? 

Upside down (capsized).

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

in what way?

Almost no challenger series plus we have already seen the defender and challengers together.

I realise this is purely an opinion and you might just be loving this. But for me, it kinda sucks.

We have had some great racing, but fuck all of it.

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4 hours ago, Raked Aft\\ said:

bending the mast and taking on Cunningham do not achieve all of the same results.

  where bending the rig will flatten in general, move the draft slightly aft and twist off the top.

  Cunny will also flatten and twist open, but move the draft forward.

Right and they can mechcanical control the sail top so why not have seperate cunninghams to control draft independently in skins and have more control of overall wing shape?

 

4 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Interesting.

I gather that compression of the mast is to induce mast bend and thus reduce sail camber? If so, isn't it a rather inefficient way of achieving this compared to the running backstays?

Running backstays dont go to the mast top

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6 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Upside down (capsized).

It capsized, it didn’t turn turtle. 

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25 minutes ago, jaysper said:

This is the most disappointing AC since the 1988 Cat-Dog fiasco.

An already very light racing schedule has been decimated by poor AM turning turtle.

If ETNZ defend successfully, they need to lift their game bigly.

Um...... global pandemic ...... this event has surpassed the 2020 Olympics in. Hours of competition, Viewership and revenue 

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

Almost no challenger series plus we have already seen the defender and challengers together.

I realise this is purely an opinion and you might just be loving this. But for me, it kinda sucks.

We have had some great racing, but fuck all of it.

Surely they've made the best of the situation. They only have 3 Challengers. 

We've seen the Defender and Challengers only in the ACWS. The ACWS isn't the CSS. 

The boats are fantastic! Better by FAR than the Cats. Fully crewed, big, powerful boats are definitely better than the 5 crew, fragile, little toy cats that we saw in Bermuda.

We've had great racing, so I don't get what's not to like about it?

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3 minutes ago, mad said:

It capsized, it didn’t turn turtle. 

Well, where I was raised turned turtle means upside down.

But splitting hairs much?

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