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2 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

Back to regular transmission tomorrow I suspect...

Given today’s events, what is ‘regular transmission’ supposed to be? 

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49 minutes ago, mako23 said:

AM we’re forced to play on the wrong side of the course, in the vain hope of wind shift which never came. Losing the start is what killed them

They were just a few seconds behind at the start... but ~80 secs at the finish!  Lot's of other issues with AM I think.

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Seems like LR should have tacked for the line before INEOS rather than after.

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The underdog is impressive and may be the next challenger, congrats to the Brits, Ben was just over the melee, masterclass.

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2 minutes ago, jsn7821 said:

Really curious how that would have went if LR got the hook at the start like they tried

I don't think it would have changed the end result

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That was fun to watch. I like the upwind starts. Hopefully there will be more prestart engagements as the series evolves.

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Just now, Tornado-Cat said:

I don't think it would have changed the end result

I'm not so sure - do you think a hook means a splash down? If so, then LR could have taken the right side easily

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I think Ben showed his class today. Not sure if there is much of a boat speed difference between the 3 boats.

Also consider today was INEOS's sweet spot for wind. Tomorrow looks lighter so there may be another story tomorrow.

But well done GB - 2 up! Have a cold beer tonight and congratulate yourselves on all the hard work over the last 2 weeks.

You are back in the game!

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IMHO the team with the right would have won.  And if Jimmy had tacked before Ben they would have got it?

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Just now, jsn7821 said:

I'm not so sure - do you think a hook means a splash down? If so, then LR could have taken the right side easily

If so, yes, I agree.

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Would current have played a part in the favoured right hand side of the course?

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1 minute ago, Tornado-Cat said:

If so, yes, I agree.

Regardless it's so great that it came down to a match racing maneuver and both teams not making mistakes. This is the AC I signed up for. 

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5 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

I think Ben showed his class today. Not sure if there is much of a boat speed difference between the 3 boats.

Also consider today was INEOS's sweet spot for wind. Tomorrow looks lighter so there may be another story tomorrow.

But well done GB - 2 up! Have a cold beer tonight and congratulate yourselves on all the hard work over the last 2 weeks.

You are back in the game!

That was not the sweet spot for INEOS.

going into this it wasn’t anyway ;-)

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1 minute ago, MaxHugen said:

Would current have played a part in the favoured right hand side of the course?

At 30+kts I really doubt it, unless chop played into how they go on the foils

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Am I the only one confused as to why its two races and not three per day? They could have a full round robin each day, instead someone may get (un)lucky with the conditions on the day

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4 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Would current have played a part in the favoured right hand side of the course?

Did you get your VPN sorted? What device are you using it on? 

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1 minute ago, Thistle3841 said:

Did you get your VPN sorted? What device are you using it on? 

NordVPN + Youtube worked great for me from the USA

edit: on a macbook

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2 minutes ago, crashtack said:

Am I the only one confused as to why its two races and not three per day? They could have a full round robin each day, instead someone may get (un)lucky with the conditions on the day

Attention span of the non sailing public.

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Just now, jsn7821 said:

NordVPN + Youtube worked great for me from the USA

I was just offering to help him. Works great for me with SurfShark in the US. I had issues with NordVPN (not related to watching the AC stuff) and finally gave up. 

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1 minute ago, Chapter Four said:

Attention span of the non sailing public.

2 per day also gives each team even amounts of days with 2 race and 1 race on the water. I drank too much to do the math but I don't think 3 races per day would do the same

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1 minute ago, Thistle3841 said:

I was just offering to help him. Works great for me with SurfShark in the US. I had issues with NordVPN (not related to watching the AC stuff) and finally gave up. 

I used Strong VPN, pretended i was in Belgium and was able to wattch on YouTube easily. Took a while to figure it out though! 

 

Happy to see Ineos up to speed! Go the Brits!

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5 minutes ago, Thistle3841 said:

Did you get your VPN sorted? What device are you using it on? 

I did thanks. Using Firefox on laptop, with good VPN (Torguard).  Seems the issue was using a NZ server (!!!), as soon as I switched to the UK server as suggested by @crashtack it was AOK.  Very puzzling... but at least I've cooled down now. :)

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Nice job by, INEOS today. Not a sign of a single sandbag aboard. 

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We don't know for sure if Ineos's improvements don't include the lower wind range? Nobody saw today coming in terms of 2 x convincing wins for Ineos. They were sailing with a smaller jib than their competitors so what's to say their light wind speed is also up? Early days to make big assumptions but at least we have 3 even teams I would think.

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1 minute ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Tomorrow is a different kettle of fish.  8-10 knots and flukey.  More westerly.

Yes, very unfair, chosing the challenger with light wind conditions and the match in stronger conditions.

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Just now, Tornado-Cat said:

Yes, very unfair, chosing the challenger with light wind conditions and the match in stronger conditions.

heh heh :)

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3 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Tomorrow is a different kettle of fish.  8-10 knots and flukey.  More westerly.

True, but Ineos didn't win even in 15 knots TWS in ACWS, IIRC.   Anyway, congrats to ETUK, good to see them back in the thick of things.  Scratching my head over AM... 80 secs loss is major, mainly down to some poor decisions I suppose.

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20 minutes ago, Thistle3841 said:

Did you get your VPN sorted? What device are you using it on? 

Opra on Win 10 in DAGO

Would have been more exciting if the broadcast cut in and out

I would imagined something more exciting happening whilst I couldn't see

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1 hour ago, Tugboat said:

Two splashdowns in a row for LR rounding at the top mark.
Commentators suggesting cavitation off the foils reducing the lift. That’s a massive mistake if they’ve caused that with a foil design change over the last few weeks. 

I still don't think the twin-helm suits Jimmy's instinctive seat-of-the-pants aggressive style. He seems too constrained..

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37 minutes ago, nroose said:

Seems like LR should have tacked for the line before INEOS rather than after.

Exactlty. I'm wondering whether Jimmy on his own would have called it - Jimmy seems to be too constrained by the twin-helm set-up.

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6 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Scratching my head over AM... 80 secs loss is major, mainly down to some poor decisions I suppose.

I've felt for some time that AM had reached the end of the curve I.e. they only had marginal gains to make.  

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12 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Yes, very unfair, chosing the challenger with light wind conditions and the match in stronger conditions.

That's not my take on it.  March is always calmer and lighter.  La Nina makes it more so.

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After watching AM higher and faster off the start line, I'm suspicious that today was a sandbag aimed at sparing the GB sponsors embarrassment. 

If not, I'm looking forward to some good racing!

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8 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Scratching my head over AM... 80 secs loss is major, mainly down to some poor decisions I suppose.

Tactically they were poor today. I don't think we've seen AM come from behind to win a race, which could be suggestive of boat speed.

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16 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

We don't know for sure if Ineos's improvements don't include the lower wind range? Nobody saw today coming in terms of 2 x convincing wins for Ineos. They were sailing with a smaller jib than their competitors so what's to say their light wind speed is also up? Early days to make big assumptions but at least we have 3 even teams I would think.

Not too even, based on today's results. ;-)

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2 minutes ago, Indio said:

Exactlty. I'm wondering whether Jimmy on his own would have called it - Jimmy seems to be too constrained by the twin-helm set-up.

The twin helm would never suit Jimmy's style.  However he was in charge pre-start and made a huge error when in the box seat.

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2 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I've felt for some time that AM had reached the end of the curve I.e. they only had marginal gains to make.  

Their boat handling and good starts have won them all their races, but yeah agree their improvements have been incremental. Still have another set of foils to come apparently.

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1 minute ago, stinky said:

After watching AM higher and faster off the start line, I'm suspicious that today was a sandbag aimed at sparing the GB sponsors embarrassment. 

You can't be serious?  Do you really think ANY sponsor wants to be beaten if not thrashed?  

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As TNZ's trial Whorez is so much faster than the competitive chalangers

And TNZ is faster than BenDover it's In The Bag

No need to change Anything !!!! 

as DC once said :)

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After the first race tomorrow, either AM or LR are going to be without a win in the first round. If it's light, that could be AM.

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The view that AM and LR had to endure today.

In small print on the stern, and suddenly more meaningful:

"THERE IS NO SECOND".

DSC_5208.JPG

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Best performance on day one - Ineos - obviously.......

Weakest performance - AM.

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16 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

That's not my take on it.  March is always calmer and lighter.  La Nina makes it more so.

Don't tell me w'll have another shit show.

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1 minute ago, weta27 said:

The view that AM and LR had to endure today.

In small print on the stern, and suddenly more meaningful:

"THERE IS NO SECOND".

DSC_5208.JPG

I'm wondering whether ETNZ have helped sort out Ineos' control issues - Sir Ben was the only one in Bermuda who provided materials with no questions to help with the repairs to ETNZ's AC50, and they don't forget.

Ineos looked very steady with a consistent ride-height.

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I have so enjoyed reading how so many on here wrote Ben and the team off. Too early to really bake lots of humble pie, but most of you need to be eating some. What I cannot believe are some of the other comments being made

8 minutes ago, stinky said:

I'm suspicious that today was a sandbag aimed at sparing the GB sponsors embarrassment. 

FFS! AM looked really poor, which cannot be good for their sponsors. Why would any team sandbag to help another team's sponsors. Congrats on one of the more stupid posts.

10 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Tactically they were poor today.

No they were not. What options do you have if you are behind and slower? Stay the same side of the course? That would never work. Their only option was to sail on the other side of the course and hope for something unexpected in terms of pressure and/or shifts.

 

28 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Early days to make big assumptions but at least we have 3 even teams I would think.

Yes, early days, but based on what we have seen today, we do not have 3 even teams. One seems significantly better than the other 2. Things could change with conditions, but based on this, it is a one horse race. For me, I hope it stays like that but for the event, I suspect others will want to see AM and LR get their acts together.

 

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22 minutes ago, stinky said:

After watching AM higher and faster off the start line, I'm suspicious that today was a sandbag aimed at sparing the GB sponsors embarrassment. 

 

Oh Stinky, Whatever interesting product you are smoking you should quit. No sandbagging anymore. These team are racing for every win now!

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6 minutes ago, SimonN said:

Their only option was to sail on the other side of the course and hope for something unexpected in terms of pressure and/or shifts.

No it wasn't, they could have done a lot more differently. Put in a few more manoeuvers to get over to the right. Tactically they were off.

8 minutes ago, SimonN said:

One seems significantly better than the other 2. Things could change with conditions, but based on this, it is a one horse race.

lol Big call, especially since we haven't seen Ineos perform in the light. Long way to go. I wouldn't be counting your chickens yet.

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RITA just looked like a rocket ship today.

Seagull-confirmed "fast-as-f**k".

DSC_5266.JPG

DSC_5241.JPG

DSC_5281.JPG

DSC_5299.JPG

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19 minutes ago, Varan said:

Race summary for those that missed it.

Race 1:  "...their [ITUK]  VMG hovering at and above a mind blowing 40 knots."

Must have happened when I was swearing at VPN issues!

 

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13 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

No it wasn't, they could have done a lot more differently. Put in a few more manoeuvers to get over to the right. Tactically they were off.

Way off.  But so was Prada.  I think Barker went into standard match racing mode.  Behind split and look for wind.  The right tactic is to stay on the same side and hunt from behind.  Spithall was doing that and it was working but a couple of bad manoeuvres and they had to go for lottery.

Either that or AM is way off pace now.  So much for Barkers local knowledge he should have been all over what side of the course to be on.

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One thing is for sure, this shit is SPECTACULAR! I'd rather watch 3 AC75's racing each other every day than 6 or what ever toy AC50/ F50's. This class is BY FAR the greatest class since the IACC.

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9 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

No it wasn't, they could have done a lot more differently. Put in a few more manoeuvers to get over to the right. Tactically they were off.

Because extra manoeuvres are are a sure fire way of going faster :blink: Extra manoeuvres put you further behind and you wanted them to do them so they could get to the right side and follow Ineos. AM were slower. Going the same way as Ineos would have given them no chance.

11 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

lol Big call, especially since we haven't seen Ineos perform in the light. Long way to go. I wouldn't be counting your chickens yet.

Your reading comprehension isn't great, is it. What part of "early days", "based on today" and "things could change with conditions" do you not understand? No big call or counting chickens, but based solely on today, it was clearly not a 3 horse race.

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2 minutes ago, SimonN said:

Because extra manoeuvres are are a sure fire way of going faster :blink: Extra manoeuvres put you further behind and you wanted them to do them so they could get to the right side and follow Ineos. AM were slower. Going the same way as Ineos would have given them no chance.

No no no.  You are looking at it from an old mono hull match racing perspective.  These boats respond real quick to increases in pressure.  If the pressure is biased to the right you go right regardless.  Because of the incredible apparent wind speed there isn't the same disadvantage in chasing.

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14 minutes ago, weta27 said:

RITA just looked like a rocket ship today.

Seagull-confirmed "fast-as-f**k".

Keep the great analysis coming Weta27, I'm a huge fan of the photos, but if the seagull says "fast-as-f**K" we have one heck of a regatta in front of us!. Woo Hoo. 

 

pexels-pixabay-56618.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

FFS talk about moaning over a technicality. If you can’t win on the water try it in the jury room. 

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5 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Is that called "clutching at outhauls"?  :huh:

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47 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

No no no.  You are looking at it from an old mono hull match racing perspective.  These boats respond real quick to increases in pressure.  If the pressure is biased to the right you go right regardless.  Because of the incredible apparent wind speed there isn't the same disadvantage in chasing.

Sorry, but have to completely disagree. First, I am not looking at it from old monohull viewpoints, as I haven't sailed that type of boat for years. I sail foiling boats where we are doing 22-23 knots upwind (42 knots apparent windspeed) and 28-30 knots downwind. Yes, you are right that it is all about pressure, but if you are slower and go the same way, you cannot catch up. If you are behind, on the same side and get more pressure, it will not get you past a faster boat ahead and on the same side, because as you close on them the windspeed will equalise and then they are faster. Your only hope is to get a better shift or more pressure on the other side of the course. Separation is your only hope.

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So awesome sailing is such a popular sport that TNZ can charge people to watch it now.  Well done!

 

 

 

 

Of course I won't be on of them but ya know....

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Just now, Sugarscoop said:

They should spend more time in the start box. Enter at 4 mins like the old days. 

Yep. I agree at least three minutes would be better. 

I think the biggest problem is the Race Committee not being able to shift the course for any wind shifts.  Not being able to start on starboard shows there are going to be no passing lanes and the rich will always get richer unless you stuff something up.  I think the designated course area should be circles and keep the spectators out to the circumference of the circles so the RC can shift the course quickly.  Race committees would normally blow up a race if the track becomes so biased as today, this is supposed to be the best of sailing not an Opti Green fleet race.

 

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

No no no.  You are looking at it from an old mono hull match racing perspective.  These boats respond real quick to increases in pressure.  If the pressure is biased to the right you go right regardless.  Because of the incredible apparent wind speed there isn't the same disadvantage in chasing.

First time I've heard of SimonN's racing experience associated with old monohulls

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Impressive that no mention at all about these first races in the Guardian, the Independent or the NYT, one article in the WP.

Maybe later ..

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Typical Italians whinging about something all the time. Seriously.! They will never win this thing with this sort of attitude. :D

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I'm stoked that INEOS has come right, will make for a much more interesting series. I think that any of the teams could have won if they got in front and controlled the right today. Still not sure how INEOS will go in the light though.

Terry H did not look overly happy in the presser afterwards...

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4 hours ago, Chapter Four said:

WTF,

I'll have my humble pie served warm, thanks.

Well done Ineos, we have a regatta !

Good on you for admitting it. Make a big one - you won't be alone.

Long way to go obvs, but I think we can put to bed some of the statements made 

UK won't win a single race 

Ben can't manage the project 

And a particularly large portion of humble pie for whoever it was suggested Ben was too old to sail these things

 

 

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Typical Italians whinging about something all the time. Seriously.! They will never win this thing with this sort of attitude. :D

Man, what are you doing here? sailing (races) has always been about protests too (get the right word: p.r.o.t.e.s.t, not whinging). And AC has always been the pinnacle of both: sailing and protesting. Where have you been the last 170 years?

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3 hours ago, SimonN said:

Because extra manoeuvres are are a sure fire way of going faster :blink: Extra manoeuvres put you further behind and you wanted them to do them so they could get to the right side and follow Ineos. AM were slower. Going the same way as Ineos would have given them no chance.

There was a lot of course bias today - being on the left was never going to win it. AM even admit their tactics were off - so take your emoji and shove it up your arse - okay?

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5 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

They were just a few seconds behind at the start... but ~80 secs at the finish!  Lot's of other issues with AM I think.

Looked predominantly to be poor tactics to me.

I didn't see any appreciable difference in boat speed.

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1 hour ago, yl75 said:

Impressive that no mention at all about these first races in the Guardian, the Independent or the NYT, one article in the WP.

Maybe later ..

Today's Guardian (app version) was published online while race 1 was still going on, I was reading it while the racing was underway. I imagine printing was in progress too. I'm not sure when the Independent online version gets released but similar, I imagine.

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57 minutes ago, D_Dog said:

 I think that any of the teams could have won if they got in front and controlled the right today.

Prada yes, AM no, they were plain old-fashioned slow.

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5 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

AM no, they were plain old-fashioned slow.

Terry looked the most shell shocked in the Presser. They didn't hang around after the race either. Today was an eye opener for them - it just didn't go the way they thought, and if they lose the first race tomorrow, they'll be in last place. No one imagined that for the "strongest" of the challengers.

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2 hours ago, SimonN said:

Sorry, but have to completely disagree. First, I am not looking at it from old monohull viewpoints, as I haven't sailed that type of boat for years. I sail foiling boats where we are doing 22-23 knots upwind (42 knots apparent windspeed) and 28-30 knots downwind. Yes, you are right that it is all about pressure, but if you are slower and go the same way, you cannot catch up. If you are behind, on the same side and get more pressure, it will not get you past a faster boat ahead and on the same side, because as you close on them the windspeed will equalise and then they are faster. Your only hope is to get a better shift or more pressure on the other side of the course. Separation is your only hope.

Didn't I see that rita made 2 or three more manoeuvres against AM but still sailed heaps less distance, presumably because of better pressure?

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6 minutes ago, barfy said:

Didn't I see that rita made 2 or three more manoeuvres against AM but still sailed heaps less distance, presumably because of better pressure?

Always looked the faster of the competition (well, obviously) and was pointing considerably higher when beating as well.

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5 minutes ago, Groucho Marx said:

Always looked the faster of the competition (well, obviously) and was pointing considerably higher when beating as well.

The higher angle perhaps due to staying in the pressure?

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Betting adjusted! Did any of you in NZ get some early money on the frackers?

Surprising that the handbags faired the worst as they looked the most likely to challenge upwind vs frackers.

 

Screenshot_20210115-094202_Chrome.jpg

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Sooooo  unusual for Barker to choke so early in the series.....

Oh dear...   looks like he's going to take the "biggest AC loser" trophy off Chris Dickson.

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

The update at that link:

UPDATE:

The INEOS Team UK outhaul does break the rule, however at this stage there is no penalty as it was passed at measurement. INEOS Team UK do need to come up with another solution.

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11 minutes ago, Baconator said:

Sooooo  unusual for Barker to choke so early in the series.....

Oh dear...   looks like he's going to take the "biggest AC loser" trophy off Chris Dickson.

Who can take over. Goody? 

Weather looks better on Sunday for the frackers. They have just one race each day so two races in the better breeze today helped.

Screenshot_20210115-095852_Windguru Lite.jpg

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