Renegade-27

Yet another Bene 'This or That'

Recommended Posts

Sorry for the topic - I know how some of you dislike these - but I'm trying to decide between buying a newer Bene 10r or an older 36.7.  There's a lot of experience participating here and I really would like to know your thoughts.

I am a very experienced shorthanded club PHRF racer, 1-2 nights/wk plus regattas, but also most often single-handed daysailing (with the race only happening in my head).  With either I plan to use primarily a #3 and Code 0 on rollers and an A2, masthead in either case (no Class racing here).  My wife isn't a sailor, so of course the interior needs to be nice enough for her to stay overnight.  A stiffer boat is also better as far as she is concerned.

I like the idea of a newer boat/design but the cockpit layout and bulb keel of the 10r trouble me.  I haven't seen a 10r in years, but it looks like all jib controls are ahead of a huge wheel (difficult to get around?).  The notion of the bulb collecting seaweed (or my spinnaker sheet) isn't appealing.  This one has a newer rudder so that isn't an issue.

I know the 36.7 and while the deck aesthetics don't grab me it ticks all other boxes - but the boats on the market are getting old...

Other things to consider when comparing these for single/shorthanded club racing and occasional overnight?  Any other boats I should be considering?  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you been on the 10R?  The interior isn’t that nice with bulkheads intersecting the settees and no double berth anywhere (it has two quarter berths with low clearance that are sort of 1.5 people each).  It’s more race boat than the racer/cruiser 36.7.  I looked at the 10R when I bought my boat, but it didn’t click the “cruiser” boxes for us.

J/109 is a great boat but runs another 50k at least. 

I’d check out the Olson or Express 34 if you can find one for sale. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A 36.7 in good shape would be an option, an autopilot with the big wheel helps. I looked at them before ending up with a 109. Interior build quality was an issue. Alex olson/express advice is good, hard to find but most have a tiller which is nice for short handed sailing. Friends have a C&C 99, same size range, smaller wheel, and a very nice interior set up for a boat in this size range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you'd be very happy with the 36.7. It has a wonderful interior for cruising (better than 109 or 10R), is very easy to sail single handed, and is quite hard to beat for the price. We have an older one ('02) and touch wood she's been problem free for us.

There are a good number of 36.7s that have been converted to masthead asyms; it's a very straight forward job (most are using Trogear) and all the owners are super happy with it. 

Even though you don't plan to race much, there is an active class full of great people who are more than happy to help a new owner get their boat sorted. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand the 10R is tough to race to it's PHRF rating.  The 36.7 is well appointed below deck and you can cruise on her in modest comfort.

Horses for courses.

Sail safe!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Alex W said:

Have you been on the 10R?  The interior isn’t that nice with bulkheads intersecting the settees and no double berth anywhere (it has two quarter berths with low clearance that are sort of 1.5 people each).

Thanks Alex.  I haven't been on one for several year.  Sounds like that would disqualify it right off for us.  I'm coming from a beautiful Jeanneau, my wife wouldn't stand for it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, steele said:

Friends have a C&C 99, same size range, smaller wheel, and a very nice interior set up for a boat in this size range.

Thanks, Steele.  I've also looked at the 99.  Just doesn't hit it for me.  Maybe too small? I also heard it doesn't sail to its rating, as does (doesn't?) the 110 which would otherwise be an option also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to invite an argument but why wouldn't you look at a J105? You could do a lot of things to make the spartan interior livable, they are fun to sail and a lot stiffer than a 36.7 ( I have sailed and crewed on both). Plus, they are class sailed with a smaller jib vs the #1 that the 36.7 requires to sail to rating. I guess they are also getting a little long in the tooth but I'm sure a careful look can turn up some good candidates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, kinardly said:

why wouldn't you look at a J105

Interesting, Kinardly.  I will have to look into it.  I never considered upping the interior finished.  Whatever I would do would have to be completely reversible of course... Hmmm....

(just took a look at the interior... small volume won't cut it and one thing she enjoys :wub: is preparing simple/picnic meals aboard.  No go on the galley!  )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I race in a mixed PHRF fleet (MORF) of 30+boats on Lake Michigan off Chicago.  The fleet does 40+ races a season, 30+ MORF races plus 10+ in the local Wednesday night beer series.   We have two Beneteau 36.7's, two Beneteau 10R's, two Olson 34's (one of them mine), an Express 34, plus two J-105's in the fleet.  At least one boat of each of these types is quite competitive in the fleet.  Every recent season one of these boats does best in fleet; which depends on who has the best crew and newest sails that season.  All the types you are considering can be highly competitive in a mixed PHRF fleet.  I can only speak to cruise-ability for my Olson 34.  We come back 300 nm from Mackinac Island every season (except 2020! ) and find it quite comfortable to cruise.  We're not setup for shorthanded sailing, save the Mac race return cruise we're strictly racers,  but most of the few Olson 34's I see come on the market are setup as cruisers not racers.  Good Luck - enjoy whichever you choose.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dehler?  They sail nicely....  might be too dark inside....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If your primary usage is shorthanding, then surely the absolutely basic screening criterion should be that the boat is optimised for sailing without railmeat?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

If your primary usage is shorthanding, then surely the absolutely basic screening criterion should be that the boat is optimised for sailing without railmeat?

That is absolutely the case.  Alternatively, if there are sail combinations that would still allow a lively sail without the need for the weight.  I can do without extra hands.  The boats got to be configured to sail without movable ballast.

While every picture I see of a 36.7 has 8 people aboard, owners have also told me how easy it is to sail singlehanded due to the cockpit layout and that it sails well with a #3 and full main.  Under 8kts or so, I expect I'll play with the Code 0.

Does that swing the pendulum one way or another?  Are there other boats that either do well or poorly on this criteria?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Renegade-27 said:

While every picture I see of a 36.7 has 8 people aboard, owners have also told me how easy it is to sail singlehanded due to the cockpit layout and that it sails well with a #3 and full main. 

A cockpit suited to shorthanding is welcome, but its presence does not necessarily correlate in any way with whether the boat needs rail meat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've just bought a 34.7 (10R)

My wife thinks it's palatial compared to our last boat - a mid eighties 33 footer

Haven't sailed it yet mind you but with an autopilot and furling Jib it looks a doddle to short hand

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/5/2021 at 7:32 AM, Alex W said:

Have you been on the 10R?  The interior isn’t that nice with bulkheads intersecting the settees and no double berth anywhere (it has two quarter berths with low clearance that are sort of 1.5 people each).  It’s more race boat than the racer/cruiser 36.7.  I looked at the 10R when I bought my boat, but it didn’t click the “cruiser” boxes for us.

 

22 hours ago, SailRacer said:

I understand the 10R is tough to race to it's PHRF rating.

I was intrigued by the 10R until I raced against it with my old warhorse and found it's not nearly as racey as it looks. Sounds like it's not a great cruiser either.

Have you looked at the Express 37? Not sure if there are any in your neck of the woods, but they seem to perform better at both roles than the 10R. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The mythical perfect 35-37 footer... Fast and comfortable. 

to me the J109 is the best blend of both but that comes at a price. The 10R is a race boat with some accommodation. The forward mounted head would be a pain in the ass to use underway. The 36.7 gives up performance to comfort more than either of the 109 or 10R but they are nice and they are (relatively) fast. Best of all they are reasonably priced now they are a few years old. The down side is the plywood paneling and glued on carpet will be failing soon requiring an interior refit at some point... 

So it depends on what you want, which side of the cruiser/racer, racer/cruiser spectrum will bring you the most joy. Go for that one... 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I was looking to buy I seriously looked at the C&C 99, 110 and 115. I also looked at the J105 and 109 seriously, as well as the FT 10, Melges 32 and even an Olson 30 (for $4k) with all this looking occurring over a 3 year period so I was carefully considering all facets and options of a potential boat.

I made an offer on a 36.7 and the 10R, ultimately buying the 10R. That was 12 years ago and I still have the boat. Very happy with my decision.

Since purchasing I have upgraded with a new rudder from Phil’s Foils, a kelp cutter, a zero on a furler and 3 Di /Dl.

The boat is easy to maintain and although smaller than some of the more cruise capable boats mentioned is less expensive to keep, maintain, upgrade and update. Insurance is $750 a year and I fit into a 30 foot slip better than some 30 footers.

It’s very easy and fun to double hand and single hand which some of those other boats are not, you just need to set up for shorting like with any other boat.

Upwind it’s a fast 32 footer. Reaching or downwind it has some really good legs.

Not selling it. I really don’t think I would be able to find another boat with all of the same characteristics and capabilities for anywhere near the same price. If you want to spend more and can afford it good for you. Enjoy.

Is it the fastest boat on the water? No. Is it the most cruise capable boat on the water? No. Is it the nicest boat on the water? No. But for the kind of sailors we are and the kind of sailing we do, it’s the best.

Would I trade it for a comparably maintained Swan 45, Bene First 40 or Morris 52 DS in carbon? Probably.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now