Why did J Boats drop the J100?

[spankoka 134]

It seems like a desirable boat, but J Boats doesn't want to sell it? 

[JL92S 183]

Sales probably slowed down to a stop

[glass 7]

5 hours ago, JL92S said:

Sales probably slowed down to a stop

The J/100 was the Overall Winner of the 2005 Sailing World-Boat of the Year Competition.

By 2007 the world economy was in recession. One could purchase a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee with a Mercedes Benz diesel V-6 for lees that what it cost to build. I know because I have one.

[Bristol-Cruiser 990]

It is a different world and boat market today. Lot more retired farts looking for a quality, easy to sail boats. I would think they could sell enough boats to make it worthwhile. I assume they still have the tooling.

[Geronimo 17]

Rumor has it that it’s not “dropped”. If you wanted to pay a premium for a brand new one you can have one. Everything is available for a price. 

[glass 7]

31 minutes ago, Geronimo said:

Rumor has it that it’s not “dropped”. If you wanted to pay a premium for a brand new one you can have one. Everything is available for a price. 

Geronimo, I would be interested if it is possible to rearrange the interior. 

Just like on Archambault 31 the bulkhead at the mast needs to be replaced with partial bulkhead while the enclosed head needs to be moved to one side of the companionway.

https://www.theglobesailor.com/archambault-31-specifications-sm1008.html

Who do I contact to get one built?

[Crash 533]

2 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

It is a different world and boat market today. Lot more retired farts looking for a quality, easy to sail boats. I would think they could sell enough boats to make it worthwhile. I assume they still have the tooling.

I think that's part of the niche the new J/9 is supposed to fill...Why build a 15 year old design?

 

[Squalamax 40]

35 minutes ago, glass said:

Geronimo, I would be interested if it is possible to rearrange the interior. 

Just like on Archambault 31 the bulkhead at the mast needs to be replaced with partial bulkhead while the enclosed head needs to be moved to one side of the companionway.

https://www.theglobesailor.com/archambault-31-specifications-sm1008.html

Who do I contact to get one built?

That full width bulkhead at the mast contributes tremendously to the stiffness of the boat and ties in the mast step and chainplates. Most early J's have it, I wouldn't want to get rid of it. 

The 100's never sold that well, and part of the problem is their performance. Its a 33 footer that's barely faster than a J29.(at least on W/L) The only 100's I've seen do extremely well were the "Good Girl/Bad Girl" twins but they were pretty highly modified and sailed by rock stars.  

[glass 7]

12 minutes ago, Squalamax said:

That full width bulkhead at the mast contributes tremendously to the stiffness of the boat and ties in the mast step and chainplates. Most early J's have it, I wouldn't want to get rid of it. 

The 100's never sold that well, and part of the problem is their performance. Its a 33 footer that's barely faster than a J29.(at least on W/L) The only 100's I've seen do extremely well were the "Good Girl/Bad Girl" twins but they were pretty highly modified and sailed by rock stars.  

When it comes to daysailers like J/100, I am not sure that owners care much about ratings.

If you live long enough you will discover that there are other priorities in life more important than accumulating pickle dishes; that is unless you have a small pickle.

[Crash 533]

46 minutes ago, Squalamax said:

That full width bulkhead at the mast contributes tremendously to the stiffness of the boat and ties in the mast step and chainplates. Most early J's have it, I wouldn't want to get rid of it. 

The 100's never sold that well, and part of the problem is their performance. Its a 33 footer that's barely faster than a J29.(at least on W/L) The only 100's I've seen do extremely well were the "Good Girl/Bad Girl" twins but they were pretty highly modified and sailed by rock stars.  

All boats are a compromise.  To make it a daysailor, its only got a small, easily tacked jib, didn't originally come with the sprit and has not much more sail area than the J/29.  While there are certainly J-29s that don't perform well, we all know the boats potential, and easily write off poor performing J/29s to crew and lack of prep.  Most J/100s started racing largely outfitted from a daysailing perspective, with owners who bought the boat with racing less than the number one priority.  As the Good/Bad Girl twins proved, if you opitmize (in this case including some mods) the boat can be very competitive.

[IMR 53]

2 hours ago, Geronimo said:

Rumor has it that it’s not “dropped”. If you wanted to pay a premium for a brand new one you can have one. Everything is available for a price. 

Everything is available for a price!! I bet they would build you a new 125 if you coughed out $750K, but than again you could just buy a used one for $300K so why not do that.   Once good used boats start trading, new boat production slows way down in a class most of the time.  

[captnjoe 35]

There are two J100s (both shoal draft) at our club and since we had ours built in 2009 the J100s are the boats to beat.

We are the big fish in a small pond. 

I did a little racing in LIS and in the ocean and felt we were competitive with our rating.  J wanted to sell us a J95 and I wasn’t interested and off shore with our North Sails rep crewing on the J95 it couldn’t compete.  In the river and bay every time a J95 went up against one of the J/100s it lost.  Great decision on my part to tell J NO!

Mine was one of the last ones built and I sometimes wonder if their marketing targeted the wrong audience.  They were trying to entice bigger boat owners who were tired of recruiting and feeding a large crew, to downsize.  But that is a limited market.

The other problem is the lack of a sprit.  Because I solo sail often and occasionally fly the asymmetrical, I don't miss the extra steps of dealing with the sprit.  But at the time the boat was introduced sprit boats had become hot.

The other thing why they may be holding on to their popularity is the double handed racing.  Our club used to run a coed double handed race for years and my wife and I were so difficult to beat that the competition stopped showing up.  This summer, partially because of COVID and mostly because we are too lazy to look for crew, we decided to double hand.  Won the class and even beat the other J100 whose owners are 20 years younger and they also had their two twenty something sons on board.

Another plus for short handing with the J100 is the carbon fiber mast; it’s like having an invisible crew out on the rail all the time.

As far as Good Girl/Bad Girl being tweaked:  I asked North Sails to check their inventory because both North and J were advising against the ever popular 155% genoa.  Turns out GG/BG biggest headsail was a 140. 

The problem there is the optional genoa track was installed with a 155 in mind, so with a 140 you couldn’t always have the best car setting.  J moved the track forward based on North’s specs (just like GG/BG) and it worked out very well.  I was told that after my boat, any new builds (maybe two) would have one continuous track instead of two.

I can’t say how much I enjoy my J100. 

But owning a sailboat is all about really knowing your specific needs and finding the boat that comes closest to those needs.

 

I got lucky.

[WHK 66]

It's strictly an economics decision.  When I asked J/Boats a few years ago when they decide to stop building a class, the answer was when orders dropped below 3 per year.  It's not economically efficient to build below that rate. 

[glass 7]

17 hours ago, Geronimo said:

Rumor has it that it’s not “dropped”. If you wanted to pay a premium for a brand new one you can have one. Everything is available for a price. 

How is it not "dropped" when molds are no longer available?

[Squalamax 40]

18 hours ago, glass said:

When it comes to daysailers like J/100, I am not sure that owners care much about ratings.

If you live long enough you will discover that there are other priorities in life more important than accumulating pickle dishes; that is unless you have a small pickle.

I didn't mention anything about ratings. For a 33 footer designed 20 years after the J29 its barely faster boat for boat. Weather the owner wants to race it or not, most boat owners take pride in a good performing boat. To say or think otherwise is silly. 

[Captain Jack Sparrow 76]

1 hour ago, Squalamax said:

I didn't mention anything about ratings. For a 33 footer designed 20 years after the J29 its barely faster boat for boat. Weather the owner wants to race it or not, most boat owners take pride in a good performing boat. To say or think otherwise is silly. 

It was designed as a daysailer, as a somewhat cheaper (relative) option to the Morris and Hinckley options that were coming to market around the same time in ~2004.  It was not intended to compete with their weekender/racer in the 105. Also, it may be barely faster than the 29 boat for boat (ratings would suggest otherwise) but it can sail to its rating upwind with only 2 people on board. Try 2 people on a J/29 upwind and see if it sails to it's rating. 

The J/100 is a perfectly good boat for what is what intended to do, which is daysail. Owners may race it, and the boat happens to be reasonably good at that, but it wasn't part of the design brief. Easy to sail and comfortable and good looking on a mooring.  People who are buying J/100's to race and then complaining about its supposed or actual shortcomings are missing the point of the boat, and should have done their homework before buying.

You may have not mentioned ratings directly, but I would hazard a guess that of any discussion about J/100's and their performance attributes or otherwise only become topic of discussion when ratings are brought up. The boat sails as it was designed to do. I doubt any of the first owners were that upset with its rating seeing as they either A) Didn't race it (because they had a real race boat) B ) didn't race it because they bought it with no intention of racing or C) Raced it and had enough money to throw at developing sails and spinnaker set ups for the boat that made it a good performer.  

[Crash 533]

4 hours ago, Squalamax said:

I didn't mention anything about ratings. For a 33 footer designed 20 years after the J29 its barely faster boat for boat. Weather the owner wants to race it or not, most boat owners take pride in a good performing boat. To say or think otherwise is silly. 

 

57 minutes ago, Captain Jack Sparrow said:

4 hours ago, Squalamax said:

I didn't mention anything about ratings. For a 33 footer designed 20 years after the J29 its barely faster boat for boat. Weather the owner wants to race it or not, most boat owners take pride in a good performing boat. To say or think otherwise is silly. 

It was designed as a daysailer, as a somewhat cheaper (relative) option to the Morris and Hinckley options that were coming to market around the same time in ~2004.  It was not intended to compete with their weekender/racer in the 105. Also, it may be barely faster than the 29 boat for boat (ratings would suggest otherwise) but it can sail to its rating upwind with only 2 people on board. Try 2 people on a J/29 upwind and see if it sails to it's rating. 

The J/100 is a perfectly good boat for what is what intended to do, which is daysail. Owners may race it, and the boat happens to be reasonably good at that, but it wasn't part of the design brief. Easy to sail and comfortable and good looking on a mooring.  People who are buying J/100's to race and then complaining about its supposed or actual shortcomings are missing the point of the boat, and should have done their homework before buying.

You may have not mentioned ratings directly, but I would hazard a guess that of any discussion about J/100's and their performance attributes or otherwise only become topic of discussion when ratings are brought up. The boat sails as it was designed to do. I doubt any of the first owners were that upset with its rating seeing as they either A) Didn't race it (because they had a real race boat) B ) didn't race it because they bought it with no intention of racing or C) Raced it and had enough money to throw at developing sails and spinnaker set ups for the boat that made it a good performer.  

To pig pile on with Cap't Jack,  when the J/109 came out, a frequently heard criticism was that it was no faster than the 20 year older J-35.  Yet it managed to sell 350 boats, so plenty of people, myself included, thought it was a good performing boat, and I took great pride in owning one.  Buying another one in about 6 years is high on my "settle into retired life" plan...

Just being faster than an older generation doesn't make a boat better or worse.  At least not in my mind.  I looked at a J/109 as a boat as fast as a well established race boat, with much greater cruising comfort, and reduced crew requirement when compared to other 35 foot racer cruisers.  I would imagine many owners would love to have a boat as fast as a J-29, but only need 2-4 folks to race it, vice the 8-10 you want on a J-29.

[Kent H 32]

All good pints......

My thoughts at the time was that there was just not enough money looking for places to go ..... That was 2010.  

Fast forward to 2021.... Jboats needs to be dropping proposals for new boats every month.  Money, money, money.....

Sailors need places to put it.   That J45 is not unique.   The J100 is getting renewed interest because it looks great,  reasonably fast with that Hoyt Jib boom ( lotsa wind) But above all else it is rather unique. 

For an older sailor the J100 is a Corvette amongst a herd of donkeys. 

[glass 7]

5 hours ago, Squalamax said:

3 hours ago, glass said:

When it comes to daysailers like J/100, I am not sure that owners care much about ratings.

If you live long enough you will discover that there are other priorities in life more important than accumulating pickle dishes; that is unless you have a small pickle.

 

1 hour ago, Crash said:

I didn't mention anything about ratings. For a 33 footer designed 20 years after the J29 its barely faster boat for boat. Weather the owner wants to race it or not, most boat owners take pride in a good performing boat. To say or think otherwise is silly. 

 

Your response to my observation about small pickle wankers accumulating pickle dishes applies perfectly in your case.

[Crash 533]

Think you’ve misquoted me...Squalamax made that statement 

[Captain Jack Sparrow 76]

23 minutes ago, Kent H said:

All good pints......

My thoughts at the time was that there was just not enough money looking for places to go ..... That was 2010.  

Fast forward to 2021.... Jboats needs to be dropping proposals for new boats every month.  Money, money, money.....

Sailors need places to put it.   That J45 is not unique.   The J100 is getting renewed interest because it looks great,  reasonably fast with that Hoyt Jib boom ( lotsa wind) But above all else it is rather unique. 

For an older sailor the J100 is a Corvette amongst a herd of donkeys. 

The first J/100's came out in 2005..before the market crash. There was plenty of money going around, hence the arrival of the Morris M36, Hinckley Daysailer 42, Friendship 40, at the same time. They were all meant to be simple boats that could be handled easily and had the minimum creature comforts (a head) and huge, comfortable cockpits. Deck layouts ensured that nobody would have to leave the cockpit. The J/100 at an asking price of around $140k in 2005 dollars was much more affordable than the others in the luxury daysailer market and the best performing by a longshot.

Absolutely agree that for the target market at the time, the J/100's performance blew away the buyers expectations of what a daysailer could do.

[Kent H 32]

1 hour ago, Captain Jack Sparrow said:

The first J/100's came out in 2005..before the market crash. There was plenty of money going around, hence the arrival of the Morris M36, Hinckley Daysailer 42, Friendship 40, at the same time. They were all meant to be simple boats that could be handled easily and had the minimum creature comforts (a head) and huge, comfortable cockpits. Deck layouts ensured that nobody would have to leave the cockpit. The J/100 at an asking price of around $140k in 2005 dollars was much more affordable than the others in the luxury daysailer market and the best performing by a longshot.

Absolutely agree that for the target market at the time, the J/100's performance blew away the buyers expectations of what a daysailer could do.

Thanks for the history lesson. My opinion was from 2010 not the boats launch. 

If you had been around then you might have noticed how SA had been getting renderings of new J’s prior to the announcement.  Could have sworn that was a poster called....Kent H. 

You have a crappy screen name from a broke actor. Citing my posts to inflate your miserable ego will get you nowhere. 

What part of the biz are or have you been in? 

In 2010 Genmar was in process of liquidation.  Brunswick was teetering and sailboat sales tanked.  There were a few exceptions.  One was called the J/111.   A solid racer that had an interior.   The boat APPEALED to a small group who could afford it

Fast forward to 2021.  Brunswick can’t restock Dealers.  Powerboat Sales are at a record pace. The Stock market has some retirement accounts bulging.  Everything associated with Tech Zoomed into the stratosphere.  Every single source shows household savings going up, up UP!   

Where are the new J Boats?   All I see are drawings.  Pretty sad when the most interesting boat for those with $$$ is a 18 year old design. 

[Captain Jack Sparrow 76]

33 minutes ago, Kent H said:

Thanks for the history lesson. My opinion was from 2010 not the boats launch. 

If you had been around then you might have noticed how SA had been getting renderings of new J’s prior to the announcement.  Could have sworn that was a poster called....Kent H. 

You have a crappy screen name from a broke actor. Citing my posts to inflate your miserable ego will get you nowhere. 

What part of the biz are or have you been in? 

In 2010 Genmar was in process of liquidation.  Brunswick was teetering and sailboat sales tanked.  There were a few exceptions.  One was called the J/111.   A solid racer that had an interior.   The boat APPEALED to a small group who could afford it

Fast forward to 2021.  Brunswick can’t restock Dealers.  Powerboat Sales are at a record pace. The Stock market has some retirement accounts bulging.  Everything associated with Tech Zoomed into the stratosphere.  Every single source shows household savings going up, up UP!   

Where are the new J Boats?   All I see are drawings.  Pretty sad when the most interesting boat for those with $$$ is a 18 year old design. 

There is a slight irony to you criticizing my screen name and talking about my ego in a paragraph immediately after talking up your contributions to SA of J/boat renderings. 
 

Thanks for taking the time to expound upon your position though. 

Do you think the new J/9 will satisfy the seemingly many looking for used j/100’s?  There was a local 100 just shipped across the country to San Francisco. It was pretty well set up for racing..wonder if the west coast guys will see her out there. 
 

 

[spankoka 134]

The overall question becomes, were the J100 molds destroyed or not? 

[Crash 533]

Not sure that's the question.  How many boats get successfully re-launched 15 years after they debut?  If there really is a market for that sized day sailor, why not design a brand new boat (the J/10?) to satisfy the demand, and have the ability to update/evolve those features that are now out of date, and or didn't work as well as they thought?  Squall said earlier they didn't sell well, but I think they sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 167 or so boats...not too back considering the recession of 2008 3 years after launch.

[slap 399]

43 minutes ago, spankoka said:

The overall question becomes, were the J100 molds destroyed or not? 

And if they still exist what condition are they in?   Where would they build the boats - ship the molds to France?

Even if the molds still exist it might make more sense to come out with a new design.  A new design has the advantage of being targeted at the current market and wouldn't be directly competing with a used J/100.

[captnjoe 35]

Do the molds still exist?

In 2009, Pearson (Then Pearson composites, changed to Pearson Marine Group, and now?) in Warren RI, created the hull and deck, which were shipped a few miles south to International Marine Composites (Bristol) where the boat was completed.

When we went up to check on the boat, our deck and hull were still separate, but just about all of the deck hardware had been installed and in the hull the bulkheads, engine, fuel tank were in place.

While I was there they wanted me to sign off on the location for our genoa track, since it was nonstandard (at the time).  

There was an untouched J/100 hull and deck sitting next to ours and it was interesting to compare the bare hull against ours.

Anyway, if the molds still exist they might be in this shot.  With Pearson shut down, who knows, but International Marine is still finishing boats for J.  So it may still be doable.

 

[glass 7]

On 1/9/2021 at 12:40 PM, spankoka said:

The overall question becomes, were the J100 molds destroyed or not? 

Your question was already answered in post #14; original molds are not available.

[glass 7]

On 1/8/2021 at 6:07 PM, Captain Jack Sparrow said:

Do you think the new J/9 will satisfy the seemingly many looking for used j/100’s?  

If not, J Boats plan on introducing larger single number designs:

"We do see the need for
a slightly larger sister to the J/9 equipped with a wheel, but haven't
developed that one yet."

[Blackadder 3]

Last year suddenly feeling like life may be passing me by I started looking for a replacement for my J/27 which I've had since 1993.  Wanted a bigger J/27 with an inboard and a sprit. The J/100 ticked all the boxes - provided it was standard draft, had a factory sprit and 150% genoa tracks. I also wanted a huge cockpit, great looking was  a must. Every time i found one on line it was sold, but finally hooked into one in Annapolis and now in the process of bringing her to San Diego.

What everyone has said about the boat being perfect for an old fart is right, can't wait to get her in the water. The boat is not really fast with Hoyt boom, 89% jib and asym tacked to the bow, but she will light up with the sprit. I think the narrow beam, relatively short keel and carbon mast are an interesting combination and we'll see how competitive she will be. On the other side cruising around with the wife and friends will be great, where the furling jib or Hoyt boom and asym to bow will be just fine.

[TwoLegged 810]

@Blackadder, I'm jealous!

It seems to me that the J/100 has most of the ingredients for a very high performance cruising boat, because it can be sailed to a high proportion of its maximum speed with little effort.  Boats optimised for rail meat and apes on winches slow down a lot without that help, whereas the J/100 is not degraded without them.  Add that to a fairly light and slender hull and you'll be out-performing a lot of boats with a lower PHRF number.

 

[adrianl 11]

Blackadder - did you buy Flashpoint from Annapolis?

[Blackadder 3]

Yep, will be renames as Flashheart. Got anything on her?

[Crash 533]

Nice!  Looks great in the pics!  I like the "big" J-27 analogy.  

[Geronimo 17]

1 hour ago, Blackadder said:

Yep, will be renames as Flashheart. Got anything on her?

Congrats! Welcome to the 100 club

[Blackadder 3]

Seeing as I have never actually seen a 100 in the flesh this is going to be very interesting, but I obviously have faith! I did not even see Flash but survey was great and broker validated the girl.

Really looking forward to being in the club!

[Blackadder 3]

G, saw you are a 100 owner, what did you do about inhaulers? seems like they are also needed for the 150 genoa.

[adrianl 11]

Blackadder - yes I was the first owner who put the boat together.

We won every distance race on Long Island Sound with the exception of the Block Island Race with her, sailing DH for 5 years - so to the commenter above who questioned her ability to win races I call bullshit!

When I sold her she was immaculate and looking at the pics it seems the 2nd owner has kept her up so you are getting a fantastic boat.

Good luck with her and happy to answer any questions - IM me

[Blackadder 3]

Adrianl, seems my earlier post did not go through, amazing you owned her as fist owner. Yes she looks good, believe it or not she sold me on the photos and the condition, as I've never seen her first hand so I can't wait till hopefully this weekend. 2nd Owner kept her on a lift and the sails in nice dry storage.  Did you use the jib boom and small headsail?

[adrianl 11]

I used the jib boom once so the Quantum sail that comes with the boat will be almost pristine!

The sail is just too small for racing - 84% or thereabouts. It is nice to go dead down wind in a blow with the jib boom but for upwind work just wont wok - least not here in our typically light wind.

I see talk of a 150 genoa - respectfully suggest you research this as the boat gets overpowered very quickly  - 8 knots true maybe - unless you are carrying a lot of weight on the rail.

We raced DH with just the 105% on a roller furler and found it plenty of power - for upwind distance work there should be a very flat cut code zero which is a wicked sail at 60 true and 5 knots of breeze!

Take a look at following pics

https://www.photoboatgallery.net/p349027313

https://www.photoboatgallery.net/p695154261

https://www.photoboatgallery.net/p348473548

https://www.photoboatgallery.net/p606878259

 

 

[On The Hard 340]

22 hours ago, adrianl said:

I used the jib boom once so the Quantum sail that comes with the boat will be almost pristine!

The sail is just too small for racing - 84% or thereabouts. It is nice to go dead down wind in a blow with the jib boom but for upwind work just wont wok - least not here in our typically light wind.

I see talk of a 150 genoa - respectfully suggest you research this as the boat gets overpowered very quickly  - 8 knots true maybe - unless you are carrying a lot of weight on the rail.

We raced DH with just the 105% on a roller furler and found it plenty of power - for upwind distance work there should be a very flat cut code zero which is a wicked sail at 60 true and 5 knots of breeze!

Take a look at following pics

https://www.photoboatgallery.net/p349027313

https://www.photoboatgallery.net/p695154261

https://www.photoboatgallery.net/p348473548

https://www.photoboatgallery.net/p606878259

 

 

Holy Smokes! Great pics! I love the gold bottom paint against the green topsides. I've never seen that combination on a boat before and looks awesome. 

If you are a Packers fan it would be even better

[On The Hard 340]

On 1/11/2021 at 5:15 PM, Blackadder said:

Yep, will be renames as Flashheart. Got anything on her?

Just curious, do you follow all of the rituals on renaming? I've never done it but this was hilarious! https://www.discoverboating.com/resources/ceremony-for-renaming-your-boat

[adrianl 11]

50 minutes ago, On The Hard said:

Holy Smokes! Great pics! I love the gold bottom paint against the green topsides. I've never seen that combination on a boat before and looks awesome. 

If you are a Packers fan it would be even better

I am a Packers fan - (also is the South African rugby team colors)

This is Vivid yellow.

[daffy 6]

7 hours ago, On The Hard said:

Holy Smokes! Great pics! I love the gold bottom paint against the green topsides. I've never seen that combination on a boat before and looks awesome. 

If you are a Packers fan it would be even better

Oregon Ducks! Quack

[Blackadder 3]

love the pics, the 105 looks like a good choice. We have typically light air in San Diego, so the boat having 150 genoa tracks and a decent shaped 150 is a plus. She has Black Widow on the bottom now.

[Squalamax 40]

On 1/8/2021 at 3:51 PM, glass said:

 

 

Your response to my observation about small pickle wankers accumulating pickle dishes applies perfectly in your case.

Spoken like someone who's never won anything in their entire life!  Oh yeah and go fuck yourself. 

[glass 7]

 

6 hours ago, Squalamax said:

Spoken like someone who's never won anything in their entire life!  Oh yeah and go fuck yourself. 

Is that the best you can do?

The fact that it took you one week to come up with such a lame response indicates that you are a limp noodle dick moron.

The number of trophies won that I distributed to hundreds of my crew members significantly outnumbers all the races you ever competed in.