BobBill

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Dig these shuntingers (proas)...that is a good sized rig...someone has to make me comforable with close-quarter-shunting...I have tied and still preferr tacking...but just MHO. Tacking make sense in harbors and approaching moorings.."tacking proa," if you will.. Gots a video? 

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If you want to sail away from the dock in a crowded harbor a proa is probably not the boat for you.  

 

 

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Here is the ongoing thread following this in the Multihull Anarchy forum.  

 

 

 

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pasted from the Multihull Anarchy forum.

I'll step in to answer part of the Editor's question of "WHY?".

Why a proa?

In the 2018 Regatta Al Sol, we saw the Proa Jzerro with a crew of 3 line up against a well crewed and race optimized F-31 Trimeran.  If you only looked at the polars, specs and past performance, it was not much of a race.  The Trimaran is faster upwind, faster downwind, and much faster on a reach.  With an ace crew to steer the F-31 over the 550 mile course, Jzerro's odds looked vanishingly thin.  Most figured the only way the trimaran would lose would be if they pitch-polled.

At the start, the F-31 crew hit the line at speed and led the fleet out of Pensacola bay as the U.S. Navy Blue Angels practiced their show overhead.  As soon as Jzerro cleared the required marks of the Pensacola ship channel, we raised the blades a bit, and cleared over the channel spoil area to be the first boat in the fleet to get east.  Throughout the next 20 hours of upwind sailing, the F-31 stayed ahead, and JZerro protected the east.  JZerro hit the shift first, and briefly grabbed the lead as the weather started turning nasty.

Over the next 40 hours, what became TS Alberto began to form over us.  Winds were not especially strong, but were highly variable, and seas were generally less than 2m but confused.  By daylight, the F-31 wouid make small gains.  They were unable to hit their best speeds due to the confused seas and highly variable winds.  In this condition Jzerro did not care.  She steadily ticked off 10.5 kts whether it was moderate or puffy and regardless of the seas drenching her crew.

When the sun went down, you could no longer see the waves, and steering around the occasional tall waves was not possible.  There was always a risk of taking one straight in the teeth.  The team on the F-31 made the prudent decision to throttle down reduce the risk of a big puff or big wave tripping them up.  Again, Jzerro did not give a damn.  She just kept on trucking, waves (and her crew) be damned.  Even by daylight, when sea state and wind conditions were at their most challenging, Jzerro steadily pulled distance on the F-31.

Going into the final night of the race, Jzerro held a small lead on the F-31 but conditions were beginning to moderate for those at the front of the fleet (those further back took a caneing).  Through the night, the proa gained distance again, and in the morning was able to hold off the charging trimaran to take line honors, and the handicap win from the faster boat.

In a nutshell, this is why Ryan's choice of a proa is a wise one for the 2Oceans1Rock challenge.  Where cats and trimarans have blistering speed in the proper conditions, the proa can keep on trucking in conditions where the more high performance boats would have to back down.  When conditions become untenable, a cat or trimaran would have to tow warps and a sea anchor while hand steering in order to survive, to the detriment of the health and rest of the skipper.  The proa is inherently fail-safe, and can be depowered and switch easily into "survival mode" where Ryan may be able to catch up on some sleep.

Prior roundings of the Horn on this course have almost always required a couple of days of surviving dreadful conditions off the west coast of Chile.  I believe Ryan has taken that in mind in his preparation, and he has selected the best boat that will ensure he will finish while also providing enough turn of speed in all conditions to challenge the record.

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Jzerro is a well proven design with many thousands of miles under her keel.  It's up to the seamanship of her new owner.

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Looking forward to following this, can't wait for more footage of Jzerro blasting along

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3 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

What is Frontpage??

I think it is a TV show. Perhaps a cartoon.

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Shunts and tacks are not similar, to me, in the doing..

I still cannot reconcile shunts in close quarters....

I think maybe, in the video above,  I am more like the swab on the right, who turns and walks away--seemingly indifferent.

My flaw here is, if it is a flaw, is a preference for lazy/safe tacks. Flip the tiller (the gouvernail) and pick up the limp jib sheet...works for me and dodgers on other boats....tacking proa is me fervent, still. But,, that is me and maybe White...avoids havoc, and, generally, do not have to move ya bum!

I wonder how long it will take the lingo cops to show here...tacking proa versus proa? "Proa" as I have it means "boat." Shunting is another means to change direction altogether....still nicely done and fascinating...in expansive waters.

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short tacking out of a harbor would be a challenge.

But if you want to do a lazy shunt, that's no problem.  In fact, if you just want to stop mid-shunt, have a snack, sail off a bit to port, clean up the meal, then complete the shunt, that's no problem.  The video above is our effort to see how quickly we can switch from one tack to the other for round the bouys racing (not recommended).  It definitely does not have to be that hurried.

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Mssr. Boudreaux, I sympathize avec your desires, but alas, I know of a channeled entrance harbor that might (not permit) shunting of any sort. 

Moreover, I seriously doubt one could shunt-capture a crowded harbor bouy. Not a "nay," just common consideration. 

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On 1/13/2021 at 1:49 AM, BobBill said:

Mssr. Boudreaux, I sympathize avec your desires, but alas, I know of a channeled entrance harbor that might (not permit) shunting of any sort. 

Moreover, I seriously doubt one could shunt-capture a crowded harbor bouy. Not a "nay," just common consideration. 

It is far easier to pick up a buoy or a man overboard on a properly set up proa than on any other sail boat.  The important thing is the ability to stop the boat. The best way to do this is an unstayed mast and no headsail.  Also helpful is the ability to sail in both directions.  

Shunting speed and effort also depends on how the boat is set up.  A twin tip kite is the fastest shunter, a balanced rig controlled by a single sheet a more practical and almost as quick an option.  There are a number of balanced rigs.  A wing masted rig is partially balanced, a ballestron (aka Aero rig or Easy Rig) more so.   A Dutch crowd built a mast with a forward kink just above the deck.  It worked, but cost a lot.   The second most important feature is that it is self vanging.  Most mainsheet force is applied to get the leech straight.  If this can be done with a separate control (the boom is rigidly attached to the unstayed mast in the pics), the sheet loads are much smaller.  A wing rig is the ultimate, but wishbone booms are more practical.  It also helps if the rudders rotate automatically.  

From John Metza in the Multihulls Mailing List several years ago: "I watched Rob shunt his 25' proa upwind up the narrow (35m for most of it) boat filled channel in front of his house so fast and easy I thought he must've had an electric motor hidden in the leeward hull. I would've had a very difficult time doing it in a beach cat without stalling, hitting somebody's boat and/or breaking out a canoe paddle. With the exception of a wind surfer, I had never seen a sailboat with a reverse gear before. He could head right for something, then throw it in reverse, back away and bolt off in a new direction under perfect control.” The boat he is referring to is Elementarry, shown with a schooner rig and a single mast.    http://harryproa.com/?p=1753

Go Ryan!  

1433931198_ScreenShot2021-01-17at9_51_39am.png.67c913cc96d1bdff4452760934dd146b.pngP1010112.jpg.0dc5e9953604df3a308c8cb826d00c4b.jpg

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Harry, Dig your position. Nice rig too. Would love to sail with tandem mains as in lower pic...love it and looks so slick.

Rig also made me wonder how you might navigate the Pepin Harbor channel...which is about two times the beam of top boat and has one 90 degree turn on ingress or egress...especially if wind or pressure is "wrong" for channel. 

As for bouy-fetch...seems mox-nix as most people just grab or hook the bouy at speed anyway...just popped into me head...

A shunt entails a lot more work and area, it seems to me, so

The simple fetch might be more applicable to coming up to end of pier or jetty gently. 

Moreover, seems, generally, easier to simple toss tiller over at the right time, instead of doing a shunt---to me.

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Harry, I do have a question...the sales seem sleeved, so how does (Ryan) bend sail in a stiff breeze? 

I know even smaller board boat dodger with sleeved sails have issues, and those sails are high aspected and fully battened, to boot, which makes them heavier.

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