Dog

The states as a laboratory

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For decades people have moved out of high tax but high income states to low tax low income states after retiring. That was our plan until recently, seeing what happens when you live in state run by morons and conspiracy fantasists has made me realize you get what you pay for, we may have to come up with Plan B.

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33 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

For decades people have moved out of high tax but high income states to low tax low income states after retiring. That was our plan until recently, seeing what happens when you live in state run by morons and conspiracy fantasists has made me realize you get what you pay for, we may have to come up with Plan B.

Do as people do in the UK move from an expensive area to a less expensive area, one that has still got what you want.. So although we have the same tax system through out the UK, people still move on retirement , or in my case some years before retirement. I now live where the average age is 58 against the UK average of 40, because of so many retirees.. However, I can still sail / race 52 weekends a year, and sail the rest of the time, with all the required facilities near-ish by.

Our house prices are half that in London, and you get a bigger garden with more boat parking space... That extra money in your pocket can make a big difference..

 

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

United Van Lines has released it study of migrations for the year 2020. The leading states for outflow migration are New Jersey, New York, Illinois, Connecticut, and California.

 2020 National Movers Study | United Van Lines

Looking forward to affordable real estate in California.  Good luck finding a place right now.

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39 minutes ago, Teener said:

Looking forward to affordable real estate in California.  Good luck finding a place right now.

I think @Dogwanted to show this as a "Liberals Suck!" message.

Looks to me like "damn, it's expensive, let's try somewhere else" message.

Oh, and those Californicators bring their blue-votes with them.

 

Us, we'll likely end up renting our house out and using the income to buy in a lower cost area, likely end up in-state, cause it's where the wife's family is. Just pray for me that it's not Irvine.

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1 hour ago, The Q said:

Do as people do in the UK move from an expensive area to a less expensive area, one that has still got what you want.. So although we have the same tax system through out the UK, people still move on retirement , or in my case some years before retirement. I now live where the average age is 58 against the UK average of 40, because of so many retirees.. However, I can still sail / race 52 weekends a year, and sail the rest of the time, with all the required facilities near-ish by.

Our house prices are half that in London, and you get a bigger garden with more boat parking space... That extra money in your pocket can make a big difference..

 

That is the whole issue. Nice places with nice culture, nice towns, nice city centers, nice transport, and nice recreational activities attract people with money. Trying to work the arbitrage to get to nice but cheap is a challenge. Being the only "rich" guy in town sucks, if everyone else is thrilled with Pizza Hut as an expensive night out your main activity on weekends is going to be loading the 12 gauge to keep the meth addicts from stealing your TV while the oxy addicts steal your car and that is assuming no more plagues come around that no one will believe are real because it is some big city elite conspiracy to steal your precious bodily fluids :rolleyes:

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2 hours ago, Dog said:

United Van Lines has released it study of migrations for the year 2020. The leading states for outflow migration are New Jersey, New York, Illinois, Connecticut, and California.

2020 National Movers Study | United Van Lines

And your point would be what exactly?

It hasn't change in decades. Here's the real data:

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geographic-mobility/state-to-state-migration.html

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5 minutes ago, bhyde said:

And your point would be what exactly?

It hasn't change in decades. Here's the real data:

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geographic-mobility/state-to-state-migration.html

That the more conservatively run states are more attractive than the liberally run states even when the state is as naturally blessed as California.. 

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8 minutes ago, Dog said:

That the more conservatively run states are more attractive than the liberally run states even when the state is as naturally blessed as California.. 

That HAS to be it  - no other possible explanation :lol:

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15 minutes ago, Dog said:

That the more conservatively run states are more attractive than the liberally run states even when the state is as naturally blessed as California.. 

The number of those migrants thst end up in my slice of Maine suggests they are not fleeing for conservative jurisdictions,  at least not exclusively. 

Edited by sshow bob
Grammar
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24 minutes ago, Dog said:

That the more conservatively run states are more attractive than the liberally run states even when the state is as naturally blessed as California.. 

you keep saying that to yourself sweetheart. Whatever gets you through the day.

 

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29 minutes ago, Dog said:

That the more conservatively run states are more attractive than the liberally run states even when the state is as naturally blessed as California.. 

Sure. I always look for shitty schools, high infant mortality, shitty roads, corrupt inbred politicians, Wal-Mart or a casino as the economic mainstay, unreliable or downright unsafe (and generally expensive) utilities like water & power, crummy internet access, and all the other Red State bullshit that goes with it.

However the federal subsidy dollars are nice. Most red states are overall "takers"

- DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:
32 minutes ago, Dog said:

That the more conservatively run states are more attractive than the liberally run states even when the state is as naturally blessed as California.. 

Sure. I always look for shitty schools, high infant mortality, shitty roads, corrupt inbred politicians, Wal-Mart or a casino as the economic mainstay, unreliable or downright unsafe (and generally expensive) utilities like water & power, crummy internet access, and all the other Red State bullshit that goes with it.

However the federal subsidy dollars are nice. Most red states are overall "takers"

On the bright side, you will be famous for having more than five teeth.

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35 minutes ago, Dog said:

That the more conservatively run states are more attractive than the liberally run states even when the state is as naturally blessed as California.. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You are funny today doggy...  Funny.  

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I don't think folks are moving from urban areas to rural areas, they are just moving from expensive areas to less expensive areas and from urban areas with apartments to suburban areas with houses. This was accelerated by Trump's tax changes limiting SALT deductions and Covid. I don't think you can really lay the blame on Democrats. Those places were expensive because a lot of people wanted to live there, mostly because that is where the better paying jobs were. Now that remote work is becoming the norm, folks would prefer a yard and a home office to working out of their closet with kids banging on the door. The moves are real, but I don't see anything political about it. There are implications for voting trends in the future though, as a lot of the folks moving out of urban areas and into suburban areas in places like PA and NC are bringing a more moderate  or center left view, so expect more states like GA flipping blue in the next 2 to 4 years. 

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13 minutes ago, LenP said:

I don't think folks are moving from urban areas to rural areas, they are just moving from expensive areas to less expensive areas and from urban areas with apartments to suburban areas with houses. This was accelerated by Trump's tax changes limiting SALT deductions and Covid. I don't think you can really lay the blame on Democrats. Those places were expensive because a lot of people wanted to live there, mostly because that is where the better paying jobs were. Now that remote work is becoming the norm, folks would prefer a yard and a home office to working out of their closet with kids banging on the door. The moves are real, but I don't see anything political about it. There are implications for voting trends in the future though, as a lot of the folks moving out of urban areas and into suburban areas in places like PA and NC are bringing a more moderate  or center left view, so expect more states like GA flipping blue in the next 2 to 4 years. 

I don't think @Dog is saying that it is definitely the democRATS' fault...only that the possibility cannot be excluded. 

He could be trying to veil a swipe at race and the desire to live away from dazzling urbanites in general. I am not accusing him of that, only raising a possibility which cannot be excluded. 

"What's a dazzling urbanite like you doing in a rustic setting like this?"

https://y.yarn.co/bcc21bc9-50b6-4e7e-a3e4-7e0fca8a632e.mp4

 

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

I think @Dogwanted to show this as a "Liberals Suck!" message.

Liberals a really about smaller govt. Leftists want the high taxes to perpetuate the Party Line. Tax and spend and then tax some more when the well runs dry.

1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

That is the whole issue. Nice places with nice culture, nice towns, nice city centers, nice transport, and nice recreational activities attract people with money. Trying to work the arbitrage to get to nice but cheap is a challenge. Being the only "rich" guy in town sucks, if everyone else is thrilled with Pizza Hut as an expensive night out your main activity on weekends is going to be loading the 12 gauge to keep the meth addicts from stealing your TV while the oxy addicts steal your car and that is assuming no more plagues come around that no one will believe are real because it is some big city elite conspiracy to steal your precious bodily fluids :rolleyes:

You guys watch too much TV. 

The nice town of Ventura, Ca has/had a meth problem. I think they got it under control with heavy policing and some head bashing. Even in my little townhome complex, we had a serious problem with drug dealers and the homeless they attracted. It took us 2 years to rut them out due to California laws protecting them. Our association was not allowed to point a security camera at their unit to document the traffic. We could put a sweeping camera in. Eventually many of the neighbors put in security systems to monitor the addicts that were using our locked community pool as a bath and restroom. We wanted to put some barbed wire around the chain link fence but in Calif that is illegal because someone might hurt themselves (yea, that is the point).

This shit goes on everywhere, But you guys just want to paint the picture that all rural white America is bad.

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Then there are the millennials and Gen Xers who got their first real job in the big city. Rented an apartment with or without roommates for a few years.  Got a promotion and a few pay raises and bought a condo in the city.  Few more years go by and they get married. First kid arrives.  Do we want to raise kids in the city? Can I get my kid into a select public school or am I looking at $25,000-$50,000 a year in private school tuition?

Sell the condo and move to the suburbs.  If you’re lucky you live in a metro area with a good commuter rail system.  If you’re really lucky you can find a house in a good neighborhood within walking distance of a train station. Your city voting patterns pretty much stay the same, at least for some time, if not permanently.  

My younger son fits that mold as do quite a few of his immediate neighbors and work colleagues

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6 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

Liberals a really about smaller govt. Leftists want the high taxes to perpetuate the Party Line. Tax and spend and then tax some more when the well runs dry.

You guys watch too much TV. 

The nice town of Ventura, Ca has/had a meth problem. I think they got it under control with heavy policing and some head bashing. Even in my little townhome complex, we had a serious problem with drug dealers and the homeless they attracted. It took us 2 years to rut them out due to California laws protecting them. Our association was not allowed to point a security camera at their unit to document the traffic. We could put a sweeping camera in. Eventually many of the neighbors put in security systems to monitor the addicts that were using our locked community pool as a bath and restroom. We wanted to put some barbed wire around the chain link fence but in Calif that is illegal because someone might hurt themselves (yea, that is the point).

This shit goes on everywhere, But you guys just want to paint the picture that all rural white America is bad.

One of the states where people are moving to most is here in Utah.  You want meth problems?  One of the worst in the country is Utah County.  Bad air?  During several weeks of the year the Salt Lake valley is the worst air quality in the country.  Housing prices?  Our affordability index is terrible.  Teen suicide rates?  Yep, you guessed it, some of the worst in the country.  Hour + commutes are the norm.  But hey, the low employment in low wage service jobs is soooo good.  But you want to paint a picture that Red states are some kind of utopia.  I would move back to San Diego in a heartbeat if I could make twice what I am now.

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

That the more conservatively run states are more attractive than the liberally run states even when the state is as naturally blessed as California.. 

You mean that the successful states are where people have good jobs and generate their personal wealth, before retiring and moving to somewhere where it's cheap to live because there are no jobs, right? I thought so.

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28 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

....

This shit goes on everywhere, But you guys just want to paint the picture that all rural white America is bad.

Baloney

I live in rural America. Not because I moved here looking for low taxes and low expenses, this is where I spent many year during my "growing up" phase (yeah). And it's noce.

So shove your "you watch too much TV" sideways, dick head. I know WAY more about it than you, from real life.

Facts: the rural red states take in Federal subsidies exceeding what they pay in Federal taxes. For most, if not all, quantifiable indices of "quality of life" are significantly worse, as I said. Around here it's nearer the top of that kind of scale, a legacy of several generations of progressive NC politicians.

- DSK

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43 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Baloney

I live in rural America. Not because I moved here looking for low taxes and low expenses, this is where I spent many year during my "growing up" phase (yeah). And it's noce.

So shove your "you watch too much TV" sideways, dick head. I know WAY more about it than you, from real life.

Facts: the rural red states take in Federal subsidies exceeding what they pay in Federal taxes. For most, if not all, quantifiable indices of "quality of life" are significantly worse, as I said. Around here it's nearer the top of that kind of scale, a legacy of several generations of progressive NC politicians.

- DSK

+1

"I want to move out to the country so my kids won't be exposed to sex and drugs and can grow up in a wholesome Christian town"

Fast forward and your daughters are blowing the local gang of inbreds to get free meth :rolleyes:

 

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1 hour ago, Swimsailor said:

One of the states where people are moving to most is here in Utah.  You want meth problems?  One of the worst in the country is Utah County.  Bad air?  During several weeks of the year the Salt Lake valley is the worst air quality in the country.  Housing prices?  Our affordability index is terrible.  Teen suicide rates?  Yep, you guessed it, some of the worst in the country.  Hour + commutes are the norm.  But hey, the low employment in low wage service jobs is soooo good.  But you want to paint a picture that Red states are some kind of utopia.  I would move back to San Diego in a heartbeat if I could make twice what I am now.

I did some time in SLC. One of the worst fucking places on earth. Everything you said is spot on. Where is Dog from?

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3 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

I did some time in SLC. One of the worst fucking places on earth. Everything you said is spot on. Where is Dog from?

I'm guessing South Africa.

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I moved from Blue California to deep red Idaho [#2 inbound state (Vermont #1)] for a dozen reasons and not one was about politics.  By the way, my Fed, State and Sales tax are all higher here than they were in California.  Dog is so deep in the weeds he thinks people make lifestyle changes based on the electoral college.  What a fucking tool.

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1 hour ago, Swimsailor said:

One of the states where people are moving to most is here in Utah.  You want meth problems?  One of the worst in the country is Utah County.  Bad air?  During several weeks of the year the Salt Lake valley is the worst air quality in the country.  Housing prices?  Our affordability index is terrible.  Teen suicide rates?  Yep, you guessed it, some of the worst in the country.  Hour + commutes are the norm.  But hey, the low employment in low wage service jobs is soooo good.  But you want to paint a picture that Red states are some kind of utopia.  I would move back to San Diego in a heartbeat if I could make twice what I am now.

But the Molly's are so hot and secretly nasty.

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58 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

But the Molly's are so hot and secretly nasty.

My 3 months on Tinder 6 years ago was the most debaucherous  time of my entire life.  I developed a garment fetish.  Freaky deaky

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1 minute ago, Swimsailor said:

My 3 months in Tinder 6 years ago was the most debaucherous  of my entire life.  I developed a garment fetish.  Freaky deaky

LOL.  Freak.  Do you still shop at Deseret Ind?

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5 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

LOL.  Freak.  Do you still shop at Deseret Ind?

I usually get my Holloween costume ensembles at DI.

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Just now, Swimsailor said:

I usually get my Holloween costume ensembles at DI.

I want to party with you dude.

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Yeah, all the libertarians are flocking to Texas because it has the highest rate, and highest number, 

of folks without health care; and 20% of all the uninsured kids in the country. 

Thirty percent of adults under age 65 w/o insurance. 

And another 700,000 lost coverage due to COVID job losses. 

Indeed, a libertarian paradise !!  

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4 hours ago, Dog said:

That the more conservatively run states are more attractive than the liberally run states even when the state is as naturally blessed as California.. 

So, you don't sail anymore.

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11 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

That is the whole issue. Nice places with nice culture, nice towns, nice city centers, nice transport, and nice recreational activities attract people with money. Trying to work the arbitrage to get to nice but cheap is a challenge. Being the only "rich" guy in town sucks, if everyone else is thrilled with Pizza Hut as an expensive night out your main activity on weekends is going to be loading the 12 gauge to keep the meth addicts from stealing your TV while the oxy addicts steal your car and that is assuming no more plagues come around that no one will believe are real because it is some big city elite conspiracy to steal your precious bodily fluids :rolleyes:

I'm not talking about moving from a nice area to a dump...in fact over here, the big cities are the places with the problems you describe. Out in the low cost countryside, we don't have those problems to any extent. Over here the high crime areas are the cities. Out where I live is one of the lowest crime rate areas in the country.

You do your research, when I chose where to move to , I looked at:

Sailing availability, 30 clubs within  60miles, half a dozen within 15 miles,,  my chosen club, 10 miles / 20minutes.

Housing cost, very cheap here, but 40 miles to the North, it's 50%-100% more expensive, 25 miles south, it's cheaper  but heading into dump territory,

Crime rates, very low here ,

Flood plains, we're surrounded by  flood plains but on a big enough hill not to be worried,

Local facilities, medical, 3 miles to the GP,,  ambulance station 5 miles away, we're close enough to get supermarket home deliveries if we need it. it's got everything we will need as we get older, 

Coastal erosion, a big problem just 5 miles away but not here.

 

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6 minutes ago, The Q said:

I'm not talking about moving from a nice area to a dump...in fact over here, the big cities are the places with the problems you describe. Out in the low cost countryside, we don't have those problems to any extent. Over here the high crime areas are the cities. Out where I live is one of the lowest crime rate areas in the country.

You do your research, when I chose where to move to , I looked at:

Sailing availability, 30 clubs within  60miles, half a dozen within 15 miles,,  my chosen club, 10 miles / 20minutes.

Housing cost, very cheap here, but 40 miles to the North, it's 50%-100% more expensive, 25 miles south, it's cheaper  but heading into dump territory,

Crime rates, very low here ,

Flood plains, we're surrounded by  flood plains but on a big enough hill not to be worried,

Local facilities, medical, 3 miles to the GP,,  ambulance station 5 miles away, we're close enough to get supermarket home deliveries if we need it. it's got everything we will need as we get older, 

Coastal erosion, a big problem just 5 miles away but not here.

 

I live on an island about 30 minutes by road or 3 hours by sailboat from Annapolis. For the equivalent house and slip in Annapolis I would literally pay 3 or 4 times as much. We don't have a lot of crime nor much in the way of "rural despair" problems, we are in commuting range of Baltimore and Washington so there is plenty of money here. I totally get what you mean. On the other hand a long days drive can take me to some really sad places that are populated by the worst remnants of the area, everyone with brains left long ago.

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12 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Oh, and those Californicators bring their blue-votes with them.

Yep.  They leave their high tax and spend states and bring that shit right along with them and change the culture right into what they were escaping from.  No different than the pakistani muslim refugee who comes to the US with his family for a better life to get away from the shithole and the practices that created that shithole...... and then goes right ahead and beats his daughter to death in the living room in a time honored "Honor Killing" due to some small family transgression.  Just saying.

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12 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Well it is smart I guess to quit subsidizing a bunch of welfare queen states and hop on the dole yourself :rolleyes:

the working poor are increasing in number. fuckers need somewhere to live. anyplace that slows the rate of going backwards is better than one that doesn't

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

Yep.  They leave their high tax and spend states and bring that shit right along with them and change the culture right into what they were escaping from.  No different than the pakistani muslim refugee who comes to the US with his family for a better life to get away from the shithole and the practices that created that shithole...... and then goes right ahead and beats his daughter to death in the living room in a time honored "Honor Killing" due to some small family transgression.  Just saying.

you cant blame the place on the character of the people.

 

the people are the same, no matter their income or their tax rate

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2 hours ago, The Q said:

You do your research, when I chose where to move to , I looked at:

Just remember, wherever you go, there you are . . 

Wherever you go, there you are." - Barron's Cartoon -

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17 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

For decades people have moved out of high tax but high income states to low tax low income states after retiring. That was our plan until recently, seeing what happens when you live in state run by morons and conspiracy fantasists has made me realize you get what you pay for, we may have to come up with Plan B.

Good idea! Living in a fascist, Marxist, totalitarian, cancel culture state come at a cost! And, well worth it in my opinion. :angry: 

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54 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Just remember, wherever you go, there you are . . 

Wherever you go, there you are." - Barron's Cartoon -

Being ex military, as was Dad and Granddad, and also having lived away from home since the age of twelve as there wasn't a suitable secondary school (age 11-18) in the area Dad was posted to and moved many many times.. The above statement is true.. Home is where your hat is..

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For about *10 years now* I have been hearing from my FoxxyFriends that "California is collapsing, everyone is leaving, etc etc" and yet somehow I cannot seem to find that cheap house in San Francisco :rolleyes: If California was a country it would have the fifth largest economy in the world, so for a dying shithole it seems to be doing pretty well.

Hey look, I am so flat-chested I can't get a date, I am sure I will die a virgin.

beautiful-hispanic-young-woman-picture-i

 

Or not.

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10 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Yep.  They leave their high tax and spend states and bring that shit right along with them and change the culture right into what they were escaping from.  No different than the pakistani muslim refugee who comes to the US with his family for a better life to get away from the shithole and the practices that created that shithole...... and then goes right ahead and beats his daughter to death in the living room in a time honored "Honor Killing" due to some small family transgression.  Just saying.

My family is guilty as charged. First they showed up in Plymouth Mass. and did not live in a teepee and wear deer hide clothes and feathers. Nope, the assholes proceeded to make New England look just like Old England and piss off the natives big time. Then fast forward a few centuries and a bunch of elite liberal chicken-necker assholes crossed the Bay and started changing Kent Island.  Did you know that schools actually can do more than teach when crab season ends and oyster season starts? The whole place is ruined now :rolleyes:

You realize that all of human history is people migrating and bringing their ideas, culture, and food with them, right? You have eaten Tex-Mex food, right?

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When I was in grad school in Colorado during the 1970's 

people in the west used to grumble about CONSERVATIVE 

Californians leaving and taking their Reich-Wing views all over the region. 

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34 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

When I was in grad school in Colorado during the 1970's 

people in the west used to grumble about CONSERVATIVE 

Californians leaving and taking their Reich-Wing views all over the region. 

And they can't drive in the snow...  

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4 hours ago, Dog said:

unemployment.png

I can find charts on the internet too.  How about median income.

image.png.78759158e6e055b1629b0dd6a7c6d1b0.png

image.png.740b9bb83c583c08f27f2ca3e543fcc9.png

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6 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Nothing like making $12 hr!  

Somebody got a raise?

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If the states are laboratories,  then one of Alabama’s lab animals escaped. Before you run for Congress you should be able to pass the citizenship test.  Jeez this guy is dumb.

“Tommy Tuberville erroneously thinks Joe Biden's inauguration could be pushed back due to COVID-19”

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/tommy-tuberville-erroneously-wonders-if-joe-bidens-inauguration-should-be-pushed-back-due-to-covid-19-143104506.html

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Nice to see Dog getting away from the myth of voter fraud and back to his mission of national division.

When a child sex ring operates in the basement of a pizzeria, is it just a coincidence it's in a blue state?   I don't think so!!! 

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3 minutes ago, benwynn said:

Nice to see Dog getting away from the myth of voter fraud and back to his mission of national division.

When a child sex ring operates in the basement of a pizzeria, is it just a coincidence it's in a blue state?   I don't think so!!! 

It's a myth that voter fraud is a myth.

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18 minutes ago, Teener said:

I can find charts on the internet too.  How about median income.

image.png.78759158e6e055b1629b0dd6a7c6d1b0.png

image.png.740b9bb83c583c08f27f2ca3e543fcc9.png

Washington DC has the highest median income. That says it all.

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2 minutes ago, Dog said:

It's a myth that voter fraud is a myth.

Stay on track:   Democrats are Bad. So sayeth this graph.

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1 minute ago, Dog said:

It's a myth that voter fraud is a myth.

Was it worse this cycle than in cycles past?

There's always a handful. 

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2 minutes ago, Dog said:
22 minutes ago, Teener said:

I can find charts on the internet too.  How about median income.

image.png.78759158e6e055b1629b0dd6a7c6d1b0.png

image.png.740b9bb83c583c08f27f2ca3e543fcc9.png

Washington DC has the highest median income. That says it all.

You ignoring the 10 blue states in the top 11 and and 12 red states in the bottom 13 says it all.

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Just now, Sean said:

Was it worse this cycle than in cycles past?

There's always a handful. 

Inconclusive but the anomalies suggest it was.

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Just now, Teener said:

You ignoring the 10 blue states in the top 11 and and 12 red states in the bottom 13 says it all.

You're ignoring the cost of living in those states.

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Just now, Dog said:

Inconclusive but the anomalies suggest it was.

Yeah, that's the ticket!

You need a fresh bone to chew on Dog. This shit is getting tiresome.

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1 minute ago, Sean said:

Yeah, that's the ticket!

You need a fresh bone to chew on Dog. This shit is getting tiresome.

It's all he's got. Bullshit doesn't grow on trees, you know.

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So, if I've got this straight, California's been failing for 50+ years as out-migration is depleting the state of people/talent.


Yet, what has the population done over that time?

Just more @Dog stupidity.

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

So, if I've got this straight, California's been failing for 50+ years as out-migration is depleting the state of people/talent.


Yet, what has the population done over that time?

Just more @Dog stupidity.

They're all moving out :rolleyes:

image.png.d98be86bc32a1d91f3c72415fc718438.png

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13 minutes ago, Dog said:

You're ignoring the cost of living in those states.

There's a chart for that one too.  Those lowest purchasing power states have a clear preference for Republicans.

image.png.5ff0e31f819f9f136c1c631887090d31.png

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2 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

At least houses are dirt cheap since everyone moved out :lol:

SF-Median-Home-Sales-Price.jpg

I sure am glad no one lives here anymore. All that traffic, lines at Safeway, high cost of living all gone!

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@Dog has come face to face with facts such as these before. It fails to make him think. He has picked his side and he is Right.

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4 minutes ago, VhmSays said:

@Dog has come face to face with facts such as these before. It fails to make him think. He has picked his side and he is Right.

It is part of the Right Wing Catechism.

1. Democrat led cities are failing and everyone is leaving.

2. Democrat led states are failing and everyone is leaving.

3. Mexicans are about to kill you.

4. Muslims are about to kill you.

5. If you don't have a gun on you 24/7/365, you will be killed.

6. Democrats will take your guns, leading to 3,4, or 5.

feel free to add more

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32 minutes ago, Dog said:

Of course they leave. And more replace them. Only 56% of californians were born here. I wasn't. I may not retire here, but my entire productive/working life will have been in California. If I leave in 5 years, and a younger family takes my place, that's good for California, good for me, good for the family buying my house.

Why the hate?

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4 hours ago, Dog said:

It's a myth that voter fraud is a myth.

I'm curious..... do you believe voter fraud robbed trump of a 2nd term?

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12 hours ago, Burning Man said:

I'm curious..... do you believe voter fraud robbed trump of a 2nd term?

No, I have not drawn that conclusion myself but I understand that fucked up elections result in a lack of confidence in the outcome. It should be clear now that AG Barr was right when he warned that relaxing election safeguards was "playing with fire".

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2 hours ago, Dog said:

No, I have not drawn that conclusion myself but I understand that fucked up elections result in a lack of confidence in the outcome. It should be clear now that AG Barr was right when he warned that relaxing election safeguards was "playing with fire".

Do you have any evidence... you know, stuff that actually happened... that "election safeguards were relaxed"?

Haven't seen any yet. And still waiting for your opinion of the SAFE Act

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Do you have any evidence... you know, stuff that actually happened... that "election safeguards were relaxed"?

No he does not - he's written that lie before. 

And he never has a word to say about vote suppression 

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8 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Do you have any evidence... you know, stuff that actually happened... that "election safeguards were relaxed"?

No he does not - he's written that lie before. 

And he never has a word to say about vote suppression 

Yep, Dog fully supports destroying the United States as it existed from 1776 to 2016, and representative democracy.

Mentioning the SAFE Act seems to make Dog disappear for a while

You're welcome!

- DSK

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4 hours ago, Dog said:

No, I have not drawn that conclusion myself but I understand that fucked up elections result in a lack of confidence in the outcome. It should be clear now that AG Barr was right when he warned that relaxing election safeguards was "playing with fire".

We just had the best run and most secure elections in the history of this country. This nebulous bullshit has now killed people and done damage Al Qaeda could only dream about. All of the Magat Inbred Army are convinced that the election is stolen and no amount of proof otherwise does anything but feed the conspiracy flames, obviously whomever verified that recount number 3 shows the votes to be correct just like 1 and 2 is just another part of this ever-growing conspiracy.

* of course the morons are too moronic to wonder how this conspiracy left Moscow Mitch with a job. Maybe he is in on it too, probably goes to a secret basement with Nancy and Mike to plan it out :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

We just had the best run and most secure elections in the history of this country. This nebulous bullshit has now killed people and done damage Al Qaeda could only dream about. All of the Magat Inbred Army are convinced that the election is stolen and no amount of proof otherwise does anything but feed the conspiracy flames, obviously whomever verified that recount number 3 shows the votes to be correct just like 1 and 2 is just another part of this ever-growing conspiracy.

* of course the morons are too moronic to wonder how this conspiracy left Moscow Mitch with a job. Maybe he is in on it too, probably goes to a secret basement with Nancy and Mike to plan it out :rolleyes:

You have to admit Mitch looks like he could use a couple of quarts of virgin blood. 

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And as to the OP, the blue states lead the red ones on all sorts of quality of life metrics . . 

When I went out to Norcal to work on the Golden Rule I learned what higher levels of 

educational attainment can do for a community - local theatre, lectures, musical talent . .  

and probably most of all, the wonderous spirit of volunteerism that makes it all work. 

(And yes, lower crime too . .    https://appliedsentience.com/2020/07/28/crime-are-red-or-blue-states-better/

That experience blew up all my previous misconceptions about La La Land . . 

(Talking about the Eureka area here,  which of course does have some issues too, as do all communities . . ) 

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

We just had the best run and most secure elections in the history of this country. This nebulous bullshit has now killed people and done damage Al Qaeda could only dream about. All of the Magat Inbred Army are convinced that the election is stolen and no amount of proof otherwise does anything but feed the conspiracy flames, obviously whomever verified that recount number 3 shows the votes to be correct just like 1 and 2 is just another part of this ever-growing conspiracy.

* of course the morons are too moronic to wonder how this conspiracy left Moscow Mitch with a job. Maybe he is in on it too, probably goes to a secret basement with Nancy and Mike to plan it out :rolleyes:

There is nothing nebulous about the fact that we mailed ballots all over the fucking place and relaxed voter verification. That election officials in critical cities in swing states behaved in some very dubious ways. It's not at all surprising that close to half the population harbors doubts including a significant percentage of Democrats.

Most secure election in history... not even close, it was a fucked up election.

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When it comes to voter suppression, you don't give a fuck about my feelings.  Why should I give a fuck about yours.  I need proof not belief.

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24 minutes ago, Dog said:

There is nothing nebulous about the fact that we mailed ballots all over the fucking place and relaxed voter verification. That election officials in critical cities in swing states behaved in some very dubious ways. It's not at all surprising that close to half the population harbors doubts including a significant percentage of Democrats.

Most secure election in history... not even close, it was a fucked up election.

You still make all these claims, like every other shroom sucking Trumpaloo, with no evidence.  For some reason you still think you know more than dozens of state and federal judges, the Supreme Court, the DOJ, the DHS and 50 Secretaries of State.  My money is on those people, not some obscure political forum hack like yourself.  

Your red state/blue state comparison dies with the facts just like all your other misguided opinions.  Do you not see the pattern?  

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These are probably the sort of "election safeguards" that the Dogster wants to relax . .  (from Kos) 

Pelosi has indicated that passing H.R. 1, symbolically named as the first bill of the session, will be a top priority for the new Congress. This bill would adopt the following reforms for federal elections:

  • Establish automatic voter registration at an array of state agencies;
  • Establish same-day voter registration;
  • Allow online voter registration;
  • Allow 16- and 17-year-olds to pre-register so they'll be on the rolls when they turn 18;
  • Allow state colleges and universities to serve as registration agencies;
  • Ban states from purging eligible voters' registration simply for infrequent voting;
  • Establish two weeks of in-person early voting, including availability on Sundays and outside of normal business hours;
  • Standardize hours within states for opening and closing polling places on Election Day, with exceptions to let cities set longer hours in municipal races;
  • Require paper ballots filled by hand or machines that use them as official records and let voters verify their choices;
  • Grant funds to states to upgrade their election security infrastructure;
  • Provide prepaid postage on mail ballots;
  • Allow voters to turn in their mail ballot in person if they choose;
  • Allow voters to track their absentee mail ballots;
  • Require states to establish nonpartisan redistricting commissions for congressional redistricting (likely not until 2030);
  • End prison gerrymandering by counting prisoners at their last address (rather than where they're incarcerated) for the purposes of redistricting;
  • End felony disenfranchisement for those on parole, probation, or post-sentence, and require such citizens to be supplied with registration forms and informed their voting rights have been restored;
  • Provide public financing for House campaigns in the form of matching small donations at a six-for-one rate;
  • Expand campaign finance disclosure requirements to mitigate Citizens United;
  • Ban corporations from spending for campaign purposes unless the corporation has established a process for determining the political will of its shareholders; and
  • Make it a crime to mislead voters with the intention of preventing them from voting.
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51 minutes ago, Dog said:

There is nothing nebulous about the fact that we mailed ballots all over the fucking place and relaxed voter verification. That election officials in critical cities in swing states behaved in some very dubious ways. It's not at all surprising that close to half the population harbors doubts including a significant percentage of Democrats.

Most secure election in history... not even close, it was a fucked up election.

Lies and well disproven lies at that. No one had the balls to stand up in court with these lies because lying in court is actually a crime.

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On 1/14/2021 at 9:20 AM, Dog said:

That the more conservatively run states are more attractive than the liberally run states even when the state is as naturally blessed as California.. 

Even California is run fairly conservatively. Try working with California on an energy project and environmental compliance and you'll find very quickly how that state will bend over backwards to protect as many industries as possible, from oil & gas, to tourism, to agriculture to manufacturing. Liberalism, even in California, is a veneer that sells politics. But the machinery underneath in the successful states (California especially) is hard-nosed bottom-line bean counting, California survives and thrives because of effective fiscal conservatism.

What you see with your Van Lines study shows the ebb and flow of industry. Industry moves to where they can save money on labor, taxes and overhead, and eventually the people follow them because they have little choice. Industry can move fast ... a few agreements, grab some land, make sure there is enough service there like power, water, rail lines, roads, slap up a few steel building, instant industry, as long as the customers are buying. People take a bit longer ... they have to re-educate, grow up, cut ties with family, end one dead end career in a dead-end county, and the move somewhere. But infrastructure ... if you want to find the common thread that ties your Van Lines thing together through decades, it's infrastructure.

Just getting the easements on a new power corridor can take decades. Getting the funding and easements for a road expansion? Decades or longer. New rail transit? Decades. Ports? Decades plus decades. It can be a bit easier when the territory is flat and virgin, like Arizona, or the boom years of Texas. But where there are things like mountains and existing housing and water, it gets ever more difficult and expensive. In the short term, most anywhere will support a relatively small industry. Even Silicon Valley supported that industry for a while. But in the long term, once the industry becomes established, the housing becomes too expensive for affordable employees, the roads becomes jammed with commuters, the lack of rail rears its ugly head, the lack of water becomes a toppling point.

My state's economy was booming a few years ago when legal weed appeared, people and industries moving here from all over the country. I had some DOE site visits in Ohio. Staid, rust-belt Ohio. The Ohio with shuttered factories, and dimly-lit union bars. But just the Northeast corner of Ohio with all that doom and gloom, had an economy about the same size as the entire state of Colorado. Buffalo, New York, where it seems the future passed it by, they have infrastructure so deep and wide that it can't be replaced in a place out West so easily. Industry returns to the Rust Belt and often never totally leaves it, because that's where the infrastructure is.

Need a major manufacturing center in Utah? It's possible, but as I saw, it can take a decade to get the water allocated, get power to where they need it, build the rail spurs, move the politics, stay compliant with the laws that protect the hunting, fishing and tourism industries. Need a major manufacturing center somewhere in the Rust Belt? Easy, the infrastructure is already there.

Yes, you'll see "outflow" from NYC from New Jersey and places out East, but the infrastructure is there. But as long as we can get our national economy healthy, then Industry will be back, and when it comes back it brings jobs, and then the Van Lines head that way. When I was a kid, I graduated high school in Denver, and the only job I could find other than fast food was working as an apprentice in a cabinet shop, from an owner who seemed far more interested in building custom choppers than building cabinets. I wanted more, so I headed to the land of opportunity, NYC ... my sister did the same thing, so did a lot of my friends. There were jobs in printing, machining, media out there. And now it's different? Okay, it's different, but attaching political significance to the ebb and flow of the economy will only work in the short term.

It's like Benjamin Graham said, "In the short run, the market is a voting machine, in the long run the market is a weighing machine." Infrastructure is the mass of industry.

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