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Trump expected to pardon upwards of 100 Tuesday morning

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Trump reportedly plans to issue around 100 pardons Tuesday

Source: Marketwatch 

President Donald Trump plans to pardon or commute the sentences of around 100 people Tuesday, according to reports Sunday night. 

CNN first reported the plans, and said White House officials met Sunday night to finalize the list. Axios separately confirmed the report. 

The actions are expected to include white-collar criminals and political allies, along with some reform-minded pardons, according to the reports. But CNN said Trump is not expected to pardon himself. 

CNN reported Tuesday’s batch of pardons are expected to be all that are coming, barring a last-minute change of heart in which Trump could break with the plan and pardon himself or family members. 

Advisers have warned Trump against pardoning himself because it would imply guilt, CNN reported, and have also recommended against clemency for any Capitol rioters.

Read more: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-reportedly-plans-to-issue-around-100-pardons-tuesday-11610940018?mod=mw_latestnews 

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It's a flippin' Jubilee Year for the Reich !!

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4 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

200 million dollars, not a bad morning’s work, as you go out the door:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/17/rudy-giuliani-associate-john-kiriakou-trump-pardon

I hope the FBI/IRS are watching Trump’s bank accounts?

Well, uhhh, Rudy's extortion attempt was for $ 2 million - not $ 200 million 

And Kiriakou surely deserves a pardon - he blew the whistle on torture in the CIA 

and got prosecuted and did hard time - while the actual torturers skated freely. 

This gross miscarriage is on the Obama DOJ  

On October 22, 2012, Kiriakou pleaded guilty to disclosing the identity of a fellow CIA officer. He was the first CIA officer to be convicted for passing classified information to a reporter although the reporter did not publish the name of the operative.

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2 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Well, uhhh, Rudy's extortion attempt was for $ 2 million - not $ 200 million 

And Kiriakou surely deserves a pardon - he blew the whistle on torture in the CIA 

and got prosecuted and did hard time - while the actual torturers skated freely. 

This gross miscarriage is on the Obama DOJ  

On October 22, 2012, Kiriakou pleaded guilty to disclosing the identity of a fellow CIA officer. He was the first CIA officer to be convicted for passing classified information to a reporter although the reporter did not publish the name of the operative.

You are a retired Pol Sci professor, so I don’t expect you to be good at maths....

100 pardons at 2 million dollars each is?

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6 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

100 pardons at 2 million dollars each is?

Your post above said nothing about 100 pardons . . nor did the article you cited. 

Maybe I'm not the most numerate dude around, but I can read. 

Say, you wouldn't be a sidekick of FKT would you ?? 

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Your inability at maths is matched only by your inability to read the thread title and your lack of a sense of humour.

I have never met and  I don’t know FKT.

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38 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

Your inability at maths is matched only by your inability to read the thread title and your lack of a sense of humour.

I have never met and  I don’t know FKT.

You've got to give old AJ a break. He thinks - giving him the credit of assuming he's actually noticed - that as we're both in Tasmania, we must know each other.

FKT

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26 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

You've got to give old AJ a break. He thinks - giving him the credit of assuming he's actually noticed - that as we're both in Tasmania, we must know each other.

FKT

Not just that but same extended family, with a good chance of shagging at least twice the same family member.

Of course he's wrong. We know you spent your formative years in NSW. 

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1 hour ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Not just that but same extended family, with a good chance of shagging at least twice the same family member.

Of course he's wrong. We know you spent your formative years in NSW. 

It's OK - he won't know where that is either.

FKT

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Typical lefty response. You all have such hate. You assume Trump will just pocket the $200,000,000.00. TDS. I would think a man of his character and wealth will use the windfall to compensate the various victims of the crimes. Any remaining balance will certainly go to the US Treasury. 

Why no font color option on the iPhone version?

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6 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:
7 hours ago, Sidecar said:

Your inability at maths is matched only by your inability to read the thread title and your lack of a sense of humour.

I have never met and  I don’t know FKT.

You've got to give old AJ a break. He thinks - giving him the credit of assuming he's actually noticed - that as we're both in Tasmania, we must know each other.

When you have totally different kinds of boats  :rolleyes:

- DSK

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6 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Not just that but same extended family, with a good chance of shagging at least twice the same family member.

Of course he's wrong. We know you spent your formative years in NSW. 

I spent my formative years in South Australia and more than that again overseas, before I retired to Tassie, so little chance we have any common family members, let alone shagged them..... Did I miss out on something?

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In the silence of the past few days, as Donald dropped out of sight, I have been dreading impending pardons. All this abuse is hard to process, especially after Russia-gate, secret tax returns, sexual shenanigans, stoking the racial divide, and Emoluments Row.

I find myself in a wicked profile... hoping that misery follows DJT, and his brand, and his clan. This misery would take the forms of legal justice, and public humiliation, based on the facts which will emerge.

 

FWIW, I predicted that DJT would not survive his term in office. I got it pretty close. The next few days are gonna be wild, I guess. 

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The big question is, though, will the pardons be valid? Article II section ii "...shall have the power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment." (emphasis mine).  These puts any pardons, as another commentator put it, at best suspect and at worst invalid.  My impression was that a reason for impeachment was to prevent, invalidate or throw into the courts any self pardon.

 

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37 minutes ago, learningJ24 said:

The big question is, though, will the pardons be valid? Article II section ii "...shall have the power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment." (emphasis mine).  These puts any pardons, as another commentator put it, at best suspect and at worst invalid.  My impression was that a reason for impeachment was to prevent, invalidate or throw into the courts any self pardon.

 

The way I read it, Trump cannot grant any pardons as of last Monday.

Will have to play out in the courts. Might be a good thing, force the whackoe RWNJ's among the judges to either walk a middle path, or out themselves and possibly get ejected.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, learningJ24 said:

"...shall have the power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment." 

I think that just means that POTUS can't pardon impeachments. It doesn't mean that a POTUS can't pardon people after the POTUS has been impeached but not convicted. Both Clinton and Trump have done that.

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5 minutes ago, weightless said:

I think that just means that POTUS can't pardon impeachments. It doesn't mean that a POTUS can't pardon people after the POTUS has been impeached but not convicted. Both Clinton and Trump have done that.

Good point, I forgot that Clinton issued pardons after he'd been impeached

- DSK

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40 minutes ago, weightless said:

I think that just means that POTUS can't pardon impeachments. It doesn't mean that a POTUS can't pardon people after the POTUS has been impeached but not convicted. Both Clinton and Trump have done that.

What about while he's being impeached? 

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8 minutes ago, VhmSays said:

What about while he's being impeached? 

Nope. While Shitstain is in office, he's in office. Moscow has made certain that that will be for as long as possible.

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Only 100

But some of his most loyal eejits invaded the Capitol when he asked them to

They were only following his orders

D

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16 minutes ago, VhmSays said:

What about while he's being impeached? 

IMO, until there's a conviction and penalty impeachment does not diminish any of the powers of the POTUS. I think -- suspect, intuit, guess, bloviate, etc -- that at no time can the POTUS pardon an impeachment or grant a reprieve from the penalties of a conviction in the Senate (his or anyone else's). It's a separation of powers thing. Or not. I wouldn't bet large sums of money on it but that's my take.

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I think he can pardon anyone else, but this does put a spin on the debate whether or not he can pardon himself now.  Can he say I pardon myself for anything but being impeached for Inciting an Insurrection?  If he's not pardoned for that can he be charged criminally for it on Jan 21st?  God what a clusterfuck this guy is.

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I think we can count on some interesting court cases coming out of this.  The argument could be made that, just as someone's movement, internet access etc. can be limited while under indictment, once impeachment articles have been passed the President's pardon powers are suspended, particularly for the offense listed. Bad news for all those Capitol youtube stars.

 

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BREAKING: Trump Reportedly Will Not Pardon Himself or His Family

Source: MSN

President Donald Trump is set to issue a slew of pardons in the final hours of his term. But none of them, reportedly, will go to his family. And he will not pardon himself either. 

According to Fox News anchor John Roberts, the president has decided not to issue a pardon to himself, nor has he decided to pardon anyone in his family. 

There has been talk that the president might have legal exposure stemming from the Capitol riots, with some suggesting that Trump could be charged for inciting the attack. Manhattan D.A. Cy Vance has a criminal investigation ongoing into Trump’s finances, but any charges resulting from that probe would not be covered by a pardon. 

CNN reported on Sunday that Trump is set to issue roughly 100 pardons on Tuesday.

Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/breaking-trump-reportedly-will-not-pardon-himself-or-his-family/ar-BB1cRGDw?ocid=st  
 

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I'm sure there will be a handful of pardons that will be head shakingly Trumpian, a whole lot that we've never heard of and a few we'll agree with.  I've already decided to not give a shit about any of them.

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4 hours ago, jocal505 said:

In the silence of the past few days, as Donald dropped out of sight, I have been dreading impending pardons. All this abuse is hard to process, especially after Russia-gate, secret tax returns, sexual shenanigans, stoking the racial divide, and Emoluments Row.

I find myself in a wicked profile... hoping that misery follows DJT, and his brand, and his clan. This misery would take the forms of legal justice, and public humiliation, based on the facts which will emerge.

 

FWIW, I predicted that DJT would not survive his term in office. I got it pretty close. The next few days are gonna be wild, I guess. 

I seem to remember him running rough shod over the constitution, that he would be unstoppable in doing so, along with not leaving the White House voluntarily about 3 years ago.

So much for all the checks and balances,:rolleyes:

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53 minutes ago, mad said:

I seem to remember him running rough shod over the constitution, that he would be unstoppable in doing so, along with not leaving the White House voluntarily about 3 years ago.

So much for all the checks and balances,:rolleyes:

You weren’t the only one.......

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5 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

100 pardons in a day

I cannot wait to find out who gets one and who is left out

D

Trump is probably having a (silent) pardons auction..... Those that miss out won’t have offered enough.

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7 hours ago, Sidecar said:

I spent my formative years in South Australia and more than that again overseas, before I retired to Tassie, so little chance we have any common family members, let alone shagged them..... Did I miss out on something?

Don't confuse them, it's more fun letting them think what they will. It seems that they have a hard time working out that quite a few of us weren't actually born here. I'm happy with that.

All those fucking mainlanders are driving up the real estate prices anyway.

FKT

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5 hours ago, jocal505 said:

In the silence of the past few days, as Donald dropped out of sight, I have been dreading impending pardons. All this abuse is hard to process, especially after Russia-gate, secret tax returns, sexual shenanigans, stoking the racial divide, and Emoluments Row.

I find myself in a wicked profile... hoping that misery follows DJT, and his brand, and his clan. This misery would take the forms of legal justice, and public humiliation, based on the facts which will emerge.

 

FWIW, I predicted that DJT would not survive his term in office. I got it pretty close. The next few days are gonna be wild, I guess. 

 

If I were a praying type of guy, I would be on my knees every night, beseeching the Lord to do just that!!

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6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

The way I read it, Trump cannot grant any pardons as of last Monday.

Will have to play out in the courts. Might be a good thing, force the whackoe RWNJ's among the judges to either walk a middle path, or out themselves and possibly get ejected.

- DSK

Any pardons he grants now will be decided by the SCOTUS - count on it.

And they haven't been as friendly as he expected.

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Good point, I forgot that Clinton issued pardons after he'd been impeached

- DSK

But before the trial?

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4 hours ago, dylan winter said:

100 pardons in a day

I cannot wait to find out who gets one and who is left out

D

I think the one that will piss off the non-dogs will be Ghislaine Maxwell.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

But before the trial?

Not that I really know but I'm pretty sure that isn't relevant. Until the POTUS is removed he can pardon and those pardons are probably durable. The exception is that the POTUS may not pardon impeachments either of himself or other people who may have been impeached. The motivation for the exception is:

https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=2444&context=wmlr

image.png.d6cc0f037e815e7d2ae18d99ae1298bc.png

While we're on it Article II has grants POTUS other power including:

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States"

And right now the army POTUS commands is mobilized where he lives. It'll be "interesting" to see how the dice fall if he tries to make something of that.

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1 hour ago, roundthebuoys said:

I think the one that will piss off the non-dogs will be Ghislaine Maxwell.

I think poor Ghislaine may be in more legal quicksand than Trump can control. 

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2 hours ago, roundthebuoys said:

I think the one that will piss off the non-dogs will be Ghislaine Maxwell.

The QAnons' heads will explode if he does that.  Trump is supposed to be the only person in the world who can stop the global pedophile ring.  

Unless, of course, he does it so that Ghislaine can operate as a double agent gathering evidence against the Deep State and the pedophile ring... do your own research, think for yourself. 

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12 minutes ago, Rain Man said:
3 hours ago, roundthebuoys said:

I think the one that will piss off the non-dogs will be Ghislaine Maxwell.

The QAnons' heads will explode if he does that.  Trump is supposed to be the only person in the world who can stop the global pedophile ring.  

Unless, of course, he does it so that Ghislaine can operate as a double agent gathering evidence against the Deep State and the pedophile ring... do your own research, think for yourself. 

Right!

Self-investigate!

The intel is not 100% !!

Just remember to check if there's a basement, before letting some rounds go into the ceiling and demanding to see the basement

- DSK

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8 hours ago, roundthebuoys said:

I think the one that will piss off the non-dogs will be Ghislaine Maxwell.

now that is interesting

 

I had forgotten about her

 

D

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Well, at least weightless and Olsonist understand how the pardon power relates to impeachment. So that's a start.

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19 hours ago, weightless said:

Not that I really know but I'm pretty sure that isn't relevant. Until the POTUS is removed he can pardon and those pardons are probably durable. The exception is that the POTUS may not pardon impeachments either of himself or other people who may have been impeached. The motivation for the exception is:

https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=2444&context=wmlr

image.png.d6cc0f037e815e7d2ae18d99ae1298bc.png

While we're on it Article II has grants POTUS other power including:

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States"

And right now the army POTUS commands is mobilized where he lives. It'll be "interesting" to see how the dice fall if he tries to make something of that.

As I said Before.  Isn't this the way the bad guy in the movies gets his army??  Best thing about this is that the troops are coming from all over the country so no 1 unit can take over anything.  Vetting was a good move IMHO as the whining from the texas gov proves.  Unless there is actually a right wing deep state that mirrors what the GOP has been accusing the dems of doing, we should be OK.  And that is a Huge "Unless" based on the track record of the minions...  

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Just now, shaggy said:

As I said Before.  Isn't this the way the bad guy in the movies gets his army??  Best thing about this is that the troops are coming from all over the country so no 1 unit can take over anything.  Vetting was a good move IMHO as the whining from the texas gov proves.  

His main problem now is he can't pardon people ahead of them committing crimes so whatever nut jobs are out there to disrupt the proceedings tomorrow are performing without that net.

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3 hours ago, shaggy said:

Isn't this the way the bad guy in the movies gets his army?? 

Depends on the movie, of course. In the other pardon thread I suggested the supervillain move of pardoning everyone.

Everyone. In a blanket pardon? (Like Carter did with the draft dodgers?) Would it stick? Is it legal? Who cares? That's not the point.

Imagine the chaos.

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President Trump has granted clemency to Stephen K. Bannon, the former White House chief strategist who was charged with defrauding people who supported building a border wall that Mr. Trump supported, White House officials said.

The president made the decision after a day of frantic efforts to sway his thinking, including from Mr. Bannon, who spoke to him by phone on Tuesday.

The pardon was described as a pre-emptive move that would effectively wipe away the charges against Mr. Bannon, should he be convicted.

Mr. Bannon was indicted and arrested in August by federal prosecutors in Manhattan on charges related to the money raised to promote the construction of the wall long sought by Mr. Trump.

The pardon of Mr. Bannon was particularly remarkable because he had been charged with a crime but had yet to stand trial. An overwhelming majority of pardons and commutations granted by presidents have been for those who were convicted and sentenced.

The White House had planned to release the list of those granted clemency earlier on Tuesday, but the debate over Mr. Bannon, who publicly encouraged Mr. Trump to fight the certification of the 2020 election results, was part of the delay, officials said.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/19/us/inauguration-day-biden

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16 minutes ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

It's all about maxing his exposure in the news cycle tomorrow. Pardons, send off, disrupters hired to goof up bidens takeover ceremony. 

All he accomplished is to piss off every prosecutor in the country.

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Seems to me that pardon would not protect Bannon from civil suits filed by the people he defrauded. IANAL so I be guessin'. 

However he did it right, by the look of it he stole from a lot of poor people instead of a few rich people. He will probably get to keep his ill-gotten gains because it would be tough to organize what was maybe hundreds, probably thousands of poor people who tossed a few buck into his swamp.  

 

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13 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Seems to me that pardon would not protect Bannon from civil suits filed by the people he defrauded. IANAL so I be guessin'. 

However he did it right, by the look of it he stole from a lot of poor people instead of a few rich people. He will probably get to keep his ill-gotten gains because it would be tough to organize what was maybe hundreds, probably thousands of poor people who tossed a few buck into his swamp.  

 

Classic Trump l'etat c'est moi

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15 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Seems to me that pardon would not protect Bannon from civil suits filed by the people he defrauded. IANAL so I be guessin'. 

However he did it right, by the look of it he stole from a lot of poor people instead of a few rich people. He will probably get to keep his ill-gotten gains because it would be tough to organize what was maybe hundreds, probably thousands of poor people who tossed a few buck into his swamp.  

Yep, that's in the big C.

Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States

So that doesn't cover civil torts or state Offences. it also doesn't cover debts, federal taxes, ... But then if you're a real quality shitbag, it's like a 20% off sale. Such a deal!

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7 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Yep, that's in the big C.

Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States

So that doesn't cover civil torts or state Offences. it also doesn't cover debts, federal taxes, ... But then if you're a real quality shitbag, it's like a 20% off sale. Such a deal!

I think it's interesting that he is holding back putting out the big list. Could it be he is going to pardon all the rioters?

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I guess not.

 In one of his last acts in office, President Trump issued clemency grants on Wednesday to a variety of allies, including pardons for Stephen K. Bannon, his former chief strategist, and Elliott Broidy, one of the president’s top fund-raisers in 2016, continuing a pattern of using his power to reward those with close ties to him.

Mr. Trump’s action, hours before his departure from the White House, underscored how many of his close associates and supporters throughout his presidency became ensnared in corruption cases and other legal troubles, and highlighted again his willingness to use his power to help them.

His decision to grant clemency to a number of people caught up in high-profile corruption cases also represented a final lashing out by Mr. Trump at a criminal justice system that he had come to view as unfairly hounding him and his allies. It came as the Senate prepared for his second impeachment trial, on a charge of inciting the deadly riot at the Capitol this month, and could be another factor in influencing whether Republicans join Democrats in voting to convict him.

Mr. Trump retains the power to issue further pardons — including theoretically for himself and members of his family — until noon Wednesday, when his four-year tenure comes to an end. But officials said they did not anticipate him doing so.

The latest round of pardons and commutations — 143 in total — followed dozens last month, when Mr. Trump pardoned associates like Paul Manafort and Roger J. Stone Jr., and four Blackwater guards convicted in connection with the killing of Iraqi civilians.

Mr. Bannon was under indictment on charges that he misused money he helped raise for a group backing Mr. Trump’s border wall, but had not yet gone to trial. Mr. Broidy pleaded guilty last year to conspiring to violate foreign lobbying laws as part of a covert campaign to influence the Trump administration on behalf of Chinese and Malaysian interests.

Among others receiving pardons or commuted sentences from Mr. Trump were several previously convicted former politicians. They included Rick Renzi, a former House Republican who was sentenced in 2013 to three years in jail in association with a bribery scheme involving an Arizona land swap deal; Robert Hayes, a former House Republican from North Carolina who pleaded guiltyin 2019 to lying to the F.B.I.; and Kwame M. Kilpatrick, a Democrat and former Detroit mayor who was convicted in 2013 for using his office to enrich himself and his family through shakedowns, kickbacks and bid-rigging schemes.

Mr. Trump also granted clemency to William T. Walters, a wealthy sports gambler. A jury convicted Mr. Walters in 2017 on charges related to his role in an insider-trading scheme, and he was sentenced to five years in prison.

Mr. Walters hired Mr. Trump’s former personal lawyer John M. Dowd in 2018, after he stopped representing Mr. Trump, The New York Times reported this week. Mr. Dowd bragged to Mr. Walters and others that he could help them receive a pardon because of his close relationship with the president.

Mr. Dowd had also said that Mr. Trump would look favorably upon those who had been investigated by federal prosecutors for the Southern District of New York in Manhattan, an office that the president has long viewed as hostile to him and that has been involved in other investigations touching on him and his allies, according to two people briefed on the matter. Mr. Walters has paid Mr. Dowd tens of thousands of dollars to represent him, the people said.

The pardon of Mr. Bannon was particularly notable because he had been charged with a crime but had yet to stand trial. An overwhelming majority of pardons and commutations granted by presidents have been for those convicted and sentenced.

The White House had planned on releasing the list of those granted clemency earlier in the day, but the debate over Mr. Bannon, who encouraged Mr. Trump publicly to fight the certification of the 2020 election, was part of the delay, officials said.

By late afternoon on Tuesday, advisers believed they had kept a pardon for Mr. Bannon from happening. But by around 9 p.m., Mr. Trump had changed his mind and Mr. Bannon was added to the list.

Mr. Trump and Mr. Bannon spoke by phone during the day as the president was weighing the pardon, as Mr. Bannon’s allies tried to apply pressure to make it happen and his detractors pushed the president not to go ahead with it.

 

 

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Great system in the USA.  Be a corrupt lying president, get your scumbag lackeys to do all the dirty work for you, then pardon the ones that get caught on your way out.  Fuck me sideways, whose idea was that when they made up the Constitution?

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Bannon’s was professional courtesy from one bullshitter to another. I wonder if Dog got his parking ticket nixed. 

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25 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Reading this list, it makes one wonder why some of these folks weren't pardoned before by Obama or  Bush.

reading that list makes one wonder about the US justice system. No doubt it will be poured over and analysed , but it looks like a bunch of finance criminals and fraudsters sopped up by a lot of people who should not have been there in the first place.

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2 hours ago, Rain Man said:
3 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Full list here. Mostly non violent drug offenders. Not too exciting.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/20/trump-pardons-73-commutes-sentence-for-70-others-full-list

Reading this list, it makes one wonder why some of these folks weren't pardoned before by Obama or  Bush.

Obama did pardon and commute sentences for a handful of drug war prisoners on his way out the door and I praised him for it in the relevant thread. There are thousands and thousands more. As with Obama, I'm glad to see Trump at least remove a few drops from the bucket, but it's a bucket that should just be dumped out.

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I think the recidivism rate will be pretty high with this group. 

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6 hours ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

It's all about maxing his exposure in the news cycle tomorrow. Pardons, send off, disrupters hired to goof up bidens takeover ceremony. 

Meh, all it did was remind everyone that Bannon is a piece of shit.  No one else on the list matters.  I'm glad Ghislaine Maxwell and Trump will still be in the news next summer.  Otherwise, like I said earlier. it's irrelevant.

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11 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

No one else on the list matters. 

This is the attitude that led drug warriors like Joe Biden to pass and enforce mandatory minimum sentences like these, from the stupid drug war thread.

Quote

The 70 people who were granted commutations include at least 10 who received life sentences for nonviolent drug offenses. Among them: Michael Pelletier, who went to prison in 2007 for importing marijuana; Craig Cesal, a first-time offender who was imprisoned in 2003 for repairing trucks that were used to distribute marijuana; and Darrell Frazier, who was sentenced in 1991 for his role in a cocaine trafficking operation.

They matter to their friends and family, and to a few taxpayers like me who are tired of paying to imprison people just to feed the egos of control freak drug warriors pursuing their failed dream.

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1 minute ago, Polytelum Tom said:

This is the attitude that led drug warriors like Joe Biden to pass and enforce mandatory minimum sentences like these, from the stupid drug war thread.

They matter to their friends and family, and to a few taxpayers like me who are tired of paying to imprison people just to feed the egos of control freak drug warriors pursuing their failed dream.

I totally agree with you.  The drug war is a disaster and I'm glad for them, I just mean they aren't important in the news cycle.

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12 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

I totally agree with you.  The drug war is a disaster and I'm glad for them, I just mean they aren't important in the news cycle.

Another attitude that I hope changes at some point. Perhaps after we're done having a career drug warrior as President.

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Just now, Polytelum Tom said:

Another attitude that I hope changes at some point. Perhaps after we're done having a career drug warrior as President.

I think that attitude has shifted.  Kamala gets it and she's a fierce prosecutor.  Pot isn't even an issue anymore, so I guess we have to worry about fentanyl or heroin?  Not good, but we stamped out Quaaludes in a day so I'm not sure what the pressing problem is.  Seems to be drugs made by big pharma, oxy, etc.

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A bit surprised that the list was pretty non exciting. A few stupid but expected inclusions like Bannon and some big donors but also a lot of folks who served their time without complaint for pretty minor offenses getting their records cleared after years of excellent behavior. Some life sentences committed after 15-24 years time served for non violent crimes.
 

I have to wonder if a big political list of pardoned friends and family will get released from Mar A Largo at 1155 EST when the nation of focused on the oaths about to happen. 

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7 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

A bit surprised that the list was pretty non exciting. A few stupid but expected inclusions like Bannon and some big donors but also a lot of folks who served their time without complaint for pretty minor offenses getting their records cleared after years of excellent behavior. Some life sentences committed after 15-24 years time served for non violent crimes.
 

I have to wonder if a big political list of pardoned friends and family will get released from Mar A Largo at 1155 EST when the nation of focused on the oaths about to happen. 

He doesn't work hard enough to have another list.  I think the send off party is all he has left to do.

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40 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

I think that attitude has shifted.  Kamala gets it and she's a fierce prosecutor.  Pot isn't even an issue anymore, so I guess we have to worry about fentanyl or heroin?  Not good, but we stamped out Quaaludes in a day so I'm not sure what the pressing problem is.  Seems to be drugs made by big pharma, oxy, etc.

I see it as slowly shifting and very much a work in progress, as it has been all my adult life. Harris has done a more convincing flip flop on her drug warrior past than Biden by far but it's still recent. In 2014 she laughed about her opponent's support for legalization. Pot is treated the same as heroin under federal law and most of our drug war arrests still revolve around it, so that's an issue, at least to a few of us. And then there are corollary issues like asset forfeiture, where signs of progress are difficult to detect.

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8 minutes ago, Polytelum Tom said:

I see it as slowly shifting and very much a work in progress, as it has been all my adult life. Harris has done a more convincing flip flop on her drug warrior past than Biden by far but it's still recent. In 2014 she laughed about her opponent's support for legalization. Pot is treated the same as heroin under federal law and most of our drug war arrests still revolve around it, so that's an issue, at least to a few of us. And then there are corollary issues like asset forfeiture, where signs of progress are difficult to detect.

I think as a prosecutor she had to do her job per the law.  I think as Vice President she gets to voice her opinion.  Pot being a schedule 1  is absolutely ridiculous and will change. 

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17 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

I think as a prosecutor she had to do her job per the law.

Prosecutors and judges have done their job while voicing dissatisfaction with the law instead of laughing at those who do. Again, I applaud her flip flop on this issue, my point was that it's recent. More recently, she's introduced legislation that I support. I haven't forgotten the laughter but have noted the conversion.

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So what happened to the self pardon or all the blanket pardons for all those patriots insurrectionists who stormed the capitol??   I don't think his letting them rot in jail is going to go down well in redneckville if he has any aspirations of further political life.  

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10 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

So what happened to the self pardon or all the blanket pardons for all those patriots insurrectionists who stormed the capitol??   I don't think his letting them rot in jail is going to go down well in redneckville if he has any aspirations of further political life.  

The wailing and screams right now must be epic :lol:

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4 hours ago, roundthebuoys said:

I think as a prosecutor she had to do her job per the law.  I think as Vice President she gets to voice her opinion.  Pot being a schedule 1  is absolutely ridiculous and will change. 

Follow the $$$ It is pretty simple.  Hell even Bitch Mcconnell has his $$$ in it.  Once the critters see how much $$ is in it they will fall all over themselves to deschedule.  Hopefully sooner rather than later...  

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13 hours ago, badlatitude said:

President Trump has granted clemency to Stephen K. Bannon, the former White House chief strategist who was charged with defrauding people who supported building a border wall that Mr. Trump supported, White House officials said.

The president made the decision after a day of frantic efforts to sway his thinking, including from Mr. Bannon, who spoke to him by phone on Tuesday.

The pardon was described as a pre-emptive move that would effectively wipe away the charges against Mr. Bannon, should he be convicted.

Mr. Bannon was indicted and arrested in August by federal prosecutors in Manhattan on charges related to the money raised to promote the construction of the wall long sought by Mr. Trump.

The pardon of Mr. Bannon was particularly remarkable because he had been charged with a crime but had yet to stand trial. An overwhelming majority of pardons and commutations granted by presidents have been for those who were convicted and sentenced.

The White House had planned to release the list of those granted clemency earlier on Tuesday, but the debate over Mr. Bannon, who publicly encouraged Mr. Trump to fight the certification of the 2020 election results, was part of the delay, officials said.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/19/us/inauguration-day-biden

Cause ripping off the Elk is just how they roll.

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10 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

No doubt it will be poured over and analysed ,

The justice system is no longer being poured over.

Now it will be pored over.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

The justice system is no longer being poured over.

Now it will be pored over.

actually, pawed over.

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On 1/20/2021 at 4:55 AM, Innocent Bystander said:

A bit surprised that the list was pretty non exciting. A few stupid but expected inclusions like Bannon and some big donors but also a lot of folks who served their time without complaint for pretty minor offenses getting their records cleared after years of excellent behavior. Some life sentences committed after 15-24 years time served for non violent crimes.
 

I have to wonder if a big political list of pardoned friends and family will get released from Mar A Largo at 1155 EST when the nation of focused on the oaths about to happen. 

There's been some speculation about secret pardons. The theory goes that since it's highly embarrassing for someone who isn't currently charged with a crime to receive a pardon. So if he issued pardons for Jared and his sons, fer instance, he might have made pardons known only to them and a couple witnesses, probably a couple notaries. They could keep them in the desk...just in case.   

 There is nothing that prevents him from doing this. Many people are saying that. Not sure if it makes a heck of a lot of sense for him to do that though. A pardon strips them of their ability to use the fif. 

 

 

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WaPo has been there. 

Quote

Donald Trump left office with a spree of last-minute pardons, but is it possible there are more? Did the norm-breaking president break one more on his way out the door, issuing pardons in secret to his friends, family or even himself, break-in-case-of-emergency documents to be produced if necessary? If so, that would be a legally dubious step, inconsistent with the pardon power.

If Trump prepared pardons without telling anyone, he probably saw them as a way to satisfy two competing goals: avoiding offending Republican senators who could still vote to convict him in his impeachment trial and having a hidden defense ready if the Biden Justice Department proceeds against Trump or those close to him. Keeping the pardons quiet unless they are needed would also prevent Trump from appearing to dare the Justice Department to challenge a self-pardon, if he went that unprecedented route.

Nobody knows for certain whether a secret pardon would be upheld in court because it has never been tested. However, the pardon power as imagined by the Constitution’s framers is checked by the ballot box, impeachment and the judgment of history. How can a president be made answerable for decisions that no one knows about?

In the heat of Watergate, The Post reported that “there is nothing in the federal regulations that requires public notification," paraphrasing Lawrence M. Traylor, the pardon attorney at the Justice Department. “The president could present himself with a written pardon during the next months, date it and quietly deposit it in a trust vault — ready to be pulled as a defense or waiver at any subsequent trial,” The Post noted, according to Traylor.

This view has gained traction recently. Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-Ill.) recently reintroduced the Presidential Pardon Transparency Act, a bill to prevent a president from issuing a secret pardon, and others have warned that Trump might have the power to do so.

Others, such as Margaret Love, who served as the pardon attorney for much of the 1990s, disagree with this assessment. “The president can do this pretty much in any form he wants, as long as it’s a public announcement,” Love said in 2017. “Stick your head out the window, yell it out in the street.” To Love, the most important factor is the publicity that would allow the public to hold the president accountable for clemency decisions at or near the time they are made.

In my assessment, as a scholar of the pardon power, I believe that is the correct view: Although the framers imagined a broad pardon power, secret pardons are untenable, likely inadvisable and perhaps unconstitutional.

The notion of a secret pardon is an oxymoron. The very concept of a pardon is that it is a public act, granting mercy to the recipient. An ordinary pardon would have no force or meaning if it were kept secret. Moreover, a pardon kept from public view would frustrate an essential element of the otherwise absolute pardon power: public accountability through political consequences. Without knowledge of a president’s pardoning decisions, neither Congress nor the public may effectively check their clemency actions.

The question of secret pardons has arisen because Trump has distorted the pardon power in an unusual, although not unprecedented, way. He has used it not only to bestow forgiveness but to preempt prosecution — most recently in the case of his former adviser, Stephen K. Bannon. Ordinarily, under Justice Department regulations, those seeking pardons must wait until five years after completing their sentences before they can even file a pardon request. The key is publicity, not a particular written form. The president could — in theory, since he has been kicked off Twitter — tweet his grant of a pardon.

If a secret pardon were allowed, it could cause chaos in the courts. There would be no way to know when or if a secret pardon might emerge and wreak havoc with a long-running investigation. The result would be to undermine the predictability of the judicial process. No one would know how many there are, or who received them, or why, until they surfaced. A president could be out of office for weeks, months or years and still influence court proceedings.

Sometimes presidents demonstrate true courage when using clemency, for example, the Civil War amnesties, the Nixon pardon and the Vietnam-era amnesties. They made these decisions knowing they would be unpopular. Still, they made controversial choices and answered to the American public for them.

We may never know if Trump issued secret pardons in his final hours. If he did, he might have gambled too much on the likelihood that a court would one day recognize their validity.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/20/trump-secret-pardons-validity/

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Quote

Former President Donald Trump issued numerous pardons and commutations to friends, family and associates, as well as felons who engaged in heinous crimes involving war crimes, murder, political corruption, and civil rights violations. He seemed to revel in absolving corrupt politicians, corrupt law enforcement officers, and of course, anyone prosecuted by Robert Mueller’s Special Counsel Office. The latter served not just to reward those who refused to cooperate with this Special Counsel, but also undermined future Special Counsel investigations by setting a dangerous precedent for future efforts to conduct such independent investigations, and to hold a corrupt president to the rule of law.

In issuing his pardons, Trump, true to form, followed no process. He did not seek to identify those most worthy of the use of the clemency process. Instead, his abuse of this constitutional power has led many to deplore the expansive executive authority, although it can be a means of meting out justice when wielded impartially and even-handedly to the most deserving after due consideration of the interests of numerous parties.

But there is good news. If the Biden administration’s Department of Justice wants to rectify some of Trump’s abuse of the pardon power, there are now options at its disposal.

Some of the pardons Trump issued were exceedingly broad, such as that given his National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, who admitted in federal court when he pleaded guilty that he had lied to the government about his conversations with the Russian Ambassador to the United States, but then later claimed he had lied — this time to the court — when he swore that he was guilty. Flynn’s pardon (on Nov. 25, 2020) covers most any crime one can imagine, clearly seeking to leave no room for now holding Flynn to account for his past felonious conduct.

But, oddly, not all of Trump’s pardons followed the Flynn model. Indeed, many are narrowly drawn.

The pardon for Paul Manafort (on Dec. 23, 2020), is illustrative. By its own terms, the pardon covers only the crimes “for his conviction” on specific charges and not any other crimes (charged or uncharged). Specifically, the pardon is solely for the crimes of conviction — eight in the Eastern District of Virginia and two in the District of Columbia. That leaves numerous crimes as to which Manafort can still be prosecuted, as in Virginia there were 10 hung counts. In Washington, the situation is even more wide open. In that district, Manafort pleaded to a superseding information containing two conspiracy charges, while the entire underlying indictment — containing numerous crimes from money laundering, to witness tampering, to violation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act — now remains open to prosecution as there was no conviction for those charges.

What’s more, the trial on such charges would be unusually simple. First, as part of his plea agreement, Manafort admitted under oath the criminal conduct in Virginia as to which the jury hung (although he did not plead to those counts and thus they are not subject to the pardon). In addition, he admitted in writing the underlying criminal conduct in Washington. Thus, proving the case could largely consist of introducing Manafort’s sworn admission to the charges.

Second, all such charges could be brought in Washington, and not require two separate trials (in Virginia and D.C.), since Manafort waived venue in his plea agreement Third, Manafort waived the statute of limitations — the deadline by which a prosecution must be brought — and thus all these charges would not be time-barred.

Finally, because the Washington, D.C. district judge, the Honorable Amy Berman Jackson, ruled in February 2019 that Manafort breached his cooperation agreement by repeatedly lying to the government, the court found that the government is not bound by the provision in the cooperation agreement not to pursue these other charges. That cooperation agreement explicitly provides that Manafort’s admissions as part of his plea can be used against him in a future trial of such charges.

In Manafort’s case there are also equitable reasons to take such a step now; he served just two years of his 90-month sentence, and his release on home confinement (prior to the pardon) due to the COVID virus, did not comply with the Bureau of Prison rules as he had not served the requisite percentage of his prison sentence (i.e. before he received an undue pardon from Trump, he received a release from prison that others similarly situated did not receive). And the pardon itself rewarded not just decades of substantial criminal activity, but also rewarded Manafort for keeping his lips sealed and lying to the Special Counsel about important topics. These topics include why he passed internal Trump campaign polling data to a Russian spy and why he met with that spy both during the campaign and after Trump took office. Reimposing appropriate punishment — one imposed by two courts —is thus not only fair in a system wedded to the rule of law, but may increase the chance of finally learning the truth.

Manafort is not the only example of narrow Trump pardons that may be rectified by the incoming Attorney General. The same narrow pardons were provided to Special Counsel Office defendants Roger Stone (Dec. 23, 2020), George Papadopoulos (Dec. 22, 2020), and Alex van den Zwaan (Dec. 22, 2020), as well as the myriad other felons who received pardons or commutations on December 22 and 23, 2020. As noted, these defendants include murderers, corrupt politicians and law enforcement officers, and Philip Esformes, the single largest health care fraudster in history. These windows of opportunity are due in significant part to a practice followed by prosecutors’ offices across the country: permitting defendants to plead to some, but not all, of their crimes. That feature of these cases should now redound to the benefit of the government, as it may now permit the Department to see that justice is done.

A responsible Department of Justice should determine for each such defendant whether, like Manafort, there is sufficient evidence to support charges other than those for which the felon was convicted, and whether such charges are warranted under the circumstances. Such an examination is particularly appropriate given that there is reason to believe that the Department of Justice never had an opportunity to weigh in on these pardons before Trump issued them.

Many may wonder what the reason is for the striking difference between the sweeping Flynn pardon in November and the narrow pardons issued on December 22-23, 2020. Was it by design or an oversight? Is this an example of what some noted about the Trump administration: malevolence, fortunately matched by incompetence? Or did lawyers in the White House Counsel’s office seek to advance only the narrowest pardons possible, so as not to exacerbate Trump’s abuse of his office? Regardless of the answer, which may never be known, the narrow pardons leave the Biden administration ample room to stand for the rule of law.

https://www.justsecurity.org/74241/the-gaps-in-trumps-pardons-how-the-biden-administration-can-still-pursue-justice/

Just as some of these cretins are still subject to state+civl prosecutions, I wonder whether Dog's boy Flynn can be court marshaled.

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