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Admiral Hornblower

Windgame

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I play this game a lot when I have a short time of nothing to do. it is addictive. besides, it's helping the sail racer software to develop a better algorithm by playing the game

 

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Good little game. Just tried it for first time. Did ok

image.png.7994d7cb691affe6e3fd47e99968e9a9.png

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Congrats Zonker, looks like you beat me by a bit over 100m on that leg.589521808_Screenshot(3).thumb.png.967d94f21eb7bf5da5bcf451bd5ff3da.png

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Guess who is third, took some tries, but I am newbie in sailing tactics.

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1 hour ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

Do you guys have any tips for me? I can win it pretty regularly but usually only by 50 to 100 meters.

Zoom in so you don't miss the mark at the "finish"

One thing this game does not have is any way of reading the wind strength and direction further up the course, or a differential on one side having stronger wind.

FB- Doug

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Capture.thumb.JPG.ac85b1de825360ecced81947a18d0d74.JPG

Finally got on the leaderboard! I am @Dominic

I don't understand what those guys are doing to get high scores so consistently!

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Silly me; I thought this thread was going to be all about flatulence...

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oh this mother fucker is gonna keep me in the house until April :blink:

image.thumb.png.2333fb001b8251324892755b3d3049f1.png

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Well to be fair the record was set on my first try - when I got a nice super persistent shift and the computer was totally on the wrong side of the course.

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Damn! Now I’m hooked...but I did win the second race!

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I’ve won 4 times out of about 40 tries.  Each win was a squeaker.  Losses were huge.  
what are the dotted blue and black lines supposed to be.  One for your boat and one for the other boat. But what do they represent?

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4 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:

Dotted black; centerline of racecourse.

Dotted blue; current wind direction

Thank you

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To win big you need leverage.  Trouble is, the computer algorithm senses when you are trying to do that and will cover you.  Still, the algorithm does occasionally head the boat off far to the layline trying to get leverage on you.  It is pretty easy to beat the other boat to the mark, the problem is trying to win big in order to get higher on the leaderboard.

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2 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

Dotted black; centerline of racecourse.

Dotted blue; current wind direction

Following the boats is what appears to be a letter E.  It changes in size as the race progresses.  What is it?

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Shows the range of wind angle. The blue line goes through it to show the direction of the wind. If the blue line is a above the black line you should be on a starboard tack. As it dips back down below the line you should be on port, depending on the competition. As the wind shifts, be prepared to tack into a slight header if you have to to prepare for a shift.

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39 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Shows the range of wind angle. The blue line goes through it to show the direction of the wind. If the blue line is a above the black line you should be on a starboard tack. As it dips back down below the line you should be on port, depending on the competition. As the wind shifts, be prepared to tack into a slight header if you have to to prepare for a shift.

Thank you.

Are there any instructions for this thing.

PS my younger brother lives a bit south of you in Lanoka Harbor

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57 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

Thank you.

Are there any instructions for this thing.

PS my younger brother lives a bit south of you in Lanoka Harbor

  1. Read Stuart Walker's "Advanced Racing Tactics".  
  2. Play Game
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Lanoka Harbor  is a laid back place, I like it. There are no instructions. You should think of it as match racing. You can loose cover the black boat if the wind is steady, if it’s shifty, you have to sail to just stay in front of/on top of the boat and it will tack a lot at the end on the little shifts, so be aware of the last 10’seconds.

I finally made the leaderboard.

I will live in infamy now!

 

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Few tries, I cannot get much over 50/50 rate. Playing by feel, I do not cover or search big split. 

Lost 21m
Win 39m
Lost 44m
Win 1m
Win 115m
Win 18m
Lost 21m
Lost 15m
Lost 167m 
Win 25m
Win 55m
Lost 48m
Win 22m
Lost 58m
Win 46m
Win 37m
Lost 10m

8 Lost 
9 Won 

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Wow,  I was 4th yesterday!!

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7 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Wow,  I was 4th yesterday!!

I find that I can win about 4 out of 5 games but when I try to win big, the consistency drops considerably.

Since you can't point or foot in this game, the only way go for leverage is to go farther on a tack the robo-boat decides is a header. It's right slightly more than 50/50

Or there is a strategy I have not grasped yet.

FB- Doug

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2 hours ago, Pertsa said:

Few tries, I cannot get much over 50/50 rate. Playing by feel, I do not cover or search big split. 

Lost 21m
Win 39m
Lost 44m
Win 1m
Win 115m
Win 18m
Lost 21m
Lost 15m
Lost 167m 
Win 25m
Win 55m
Lost 48m
Win 22m
Lost 58m
Win 46m
Win 37m
Lost 10m

8 Lost 
9 Won 

It does seem to be hard to win by more than 50m in these comparatively steady wind conditions.

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I would guess that most of major wins are by luck with big shift. Othervise there would be more high results from same players.

It would be interesting to see winrates instead of max results. I think that would tell better actual "skill".

My results cant be kept proof that it is hard to win with large distance difference as I am complete newbie in windtactics. I have quite little sailing experience by SA standards.

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This is the way I make most of my "big wins", these were some little over 150m differences as I did not luck much with shifts. I try to keep near "midline" and look for better side before committing to one. 

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You can gain a lot if you are inside on the shift and make a short further tack into the shift to get on a higher ladder rung.  The algorithm limits how much the roboboat will do this.  Then pray that you get to take advantage of it long enough that the roboboat doesn't get to tack in the opposite shift.

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13 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

You can gain a lot if you are inside on the shift and make a short further tack into the shift to get on a higher ladder rung.  The algorithm limits how much the roboboat will do this.  Then pray that you get to take advantage of it long enough that the roboboat doesn't get to tack in the opposite shift.

this.... just figuring this out and has led to largest winning margins, but also finding that playing the middle like pertsa leads to higher percentage of wins. 

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Middle certainly gives best win %

W 164m
L 176m
W 34m
W 105m
L 122m
W 181m
W 134m
W 91m
W 44m
W 79m
L 3m
L 1m
W 23m
W 17m
W 24m
W 40m
W 136m
L 43m
L 9m

13 w
6 l

I wonder if they could add more options to stat lists, would be interesting to see win% and how much you are on + side of distance. Distance won - distance lost, for me I am at +718 meters which would be average 37 metre lead per match.

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1 hour ago, Bump-n-Grind said:

this.... just figuring this out and has led to largest winning margins, but also finding that playing the middle like pertsa leads to higher percentage of wins. 

It is actually a bug in the program - tacks don't cost nearly as much as they should IMHO.

Playing the middle and covering is a good way to minimize errors and losses on the real race course too.  

One thing I haven't tried is waiting for a few minutes before starting the gameplay to time the shifts to see if they are consistent.  That generally works well on the real race course too.

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1 hour ago, Rain Man said:

It is actually a bug in the program - tacks don't cost nearly as much as they should IMHO.

Playing the middle and covering is a good way to minimize errors and losses on the real race course too.  

One thing I haven't tried is waiting for a few minutes before starting the gameplay to time the shifts to see if they are consistent.  That generally works well on the real race course too.

I have tried to time the oscillations, but they're not terribly regular in either direction or velocity, what would be neat is if they could stick in a pause button.. and let wind data buffer for a given scenario. Would be fun to rewind and try different stuff!!

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I play under the name  Popeye.  327 m win. Right behind Sail4Beer. I have no idea how I did it.

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Congratulations! The key to winning every race is to use the black boat as a guide for when to tack at the optimal angle( long lifts and headers excluded). The large E behind you shows when to tack at the best time. When the blue dotted line is running through the top part of the E be on starboard tack. When the line drops below the middle line of the E, immediately tack to port. The black boat will do it every time because it is the best angle to the wind-not the mark. By tacking exactly when the line crosses the middle of the E you are sailing at the best heading possible. Near the end the computer will keep at it while you can take a last longer tack to the finish knowing that the black boat will tack almost? every time at the finish. The goal is to sail as close to that vector guide as possible and the black boat will fail. I think I just won about 20 or so races in a row after I learned to forget covering and eyeballing shifts. I guess that’s the way is to be in the real world itself. I downloaded their free app and I’ll go sailing in a few weeks to see how it works.

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40 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Congratulations! The key to winning every race is to use the black boat as a guide for when to tack at the optimal angle( long lifts and headers excluded). The large E behind you shows when to tack at the best time. When the blue dotted line is running through the top part of the E be on starboard tack. When the line drops below the middle line of the E, immediately tack to port. The black boat will do it every time because it is the best angle to the wind-not the mark. By tacking exactly when the line crosses the middle of the E you are sailing at the best heading possible. Near the end the computer will keep at it while you can take a last longer tack to the finish knowing that the black boat will tack almost? every time at the finish. The goal is to sail as close to that vector guide as possible and the black boat will fail. I think I just won about 20 or so races in a row after I learned to forget covering and eyeballing shifts. I guess that’s the way is to be in the real world itself. I downloaded their free app and I’ll go sailing in a few weeks to see how it works.

Great advice.  Thanks. I’m not going sailing any time soon. Going to be -5 tonight, single digit highs tomorrow, 2’ of snow on the ground.

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The way to score a win with 300+ meters you need to sail old school, judging the shifts by eye or match racing. It will hard to do it again since the computer sails so efficiently that the lucky corner bang or sailing close to the true wind alone isn’t good enough.

Technology. Go figure. Now I’m just a part of a computer program steering my boat to victory this summer...

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finally broke into 10 again, I can win a race almost at will, just by tacking when the windline is almost crossing the middle leg of the E. to get big numbers, for me anyway,  takes a bit of luck on the shifts and bangin corners at some point

image.thumb.png.6623f1bb556ed18cbe5fc77e20bcdec7.png

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I had one race where the wind was so far right it was a port fetch to the mark. Black boat never started. Didn't get a win out of it :(

 

Edit- starboard fetch, I have trouble visualizing the game v. irl

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11 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

The way to score a win with 300+ meters you need to sail old school, judging the shifts by eye or match racing. It will hard to do it again since the computer sails so efficiently that the lucky corner bang or sailing close to the true wind alone isn’t good enough.

Technology. Go figure. Now I’m just a part of a computer program steering my boat to victory this summer...

Ted Turner, invited to be guest skipper for one of the top boats way back in the '90s... told about watching the instruments and following a target VMG.... said "Where the fuck is the fun in THAT?? I came here to SAIL!!"

- DSK

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That is the crux of the problem. 

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

That is the crux of the problem. 

One of the things I did teaching kids to sail, is to first of all ignore ANY aspect or implication of "racing" until after they had learned solid all-around basic sailing skills. We did a bunch of different drills, each emphasizing some particular skill set like stopping... and holding the boat "parked" which is tricky... or sailing heeled over as far as you can... and these kids did enter local races and always did well, often swept the field.

But as is inevitable, there were a few parents who were pissed off that I was not "teaching racing" and the 2nd year, we did begin hosting races. So I had everybody, guests included, to come over and do a 'walk thru' of a race, on the lawn. We talked about wind direction and enacted what happens when it shifts. We did a couple of starts, which reinforced the rules, the start sequence/signals, and the goals of getting a "good start" all in one. Then we walked thru a couple of mark roundings, primarily with the idea of getting the rules and thinking ahead. It played out very well and a few kids that have gone on to become serious racers said that really got them interested and enthused. A bunch of the visiting parents remarked that our races had a far higher level of sportsmanship than any place else they went.

FB- Doug

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4 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

I had one race where the wind was so far right it was a port fetch to the mark. Black boat never started. Didn't get a win out of it :(

 

Edit- starboard fetch, I have trouble visualizing the game v. irl

I had one of those. I won by 0 meters.  

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I find beating the black boat consistently doesn't seem to be that difficult if, as the others say, I am paying attention to the numbers and the E indicator thing. But winning big isn't as easy and has required some serious luck. 

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My brother Chris is on the leaderboard twice today!

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17 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

I had one of those. I won by 0 meters.  

Pure luck. 

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4 hours ago, 10thTonner said:

Pure luck. 

I’d rather be lucky than good

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I haven't been able to duplicate my early success with it.  Is the algorithm improving?  It seems like it manufactures an adverse shift every time I build up sufficient leverage to kick ass, even if I have locked into the shift pattern.   The pattern seems to change just after I get the leverage I want.

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I won by 33m on the first try and 175m on the 2nd. Do I get a cookie?

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S4B

you were atop theleader board for quite a while yesterday.  Congrats.

See the guy from AUS.   774 meter victory. How can you do that? Tie the other boat to the pier? 

 

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2 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

S4B

you were atop theleader board for quite a while yesterday.  Congrats.

See the guy from AUS.   774 meter victory. How can you do that? Tie the other boat to the pier? 

 

I did notice that their javascript is completely exposed.  I was tempted to mess with it, but didn't.  I suspect a 774m victory is the result of messing with the scripts.

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2 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

I did notice that their javascript is completely exposed.  I was tempted to mess with it, but didn't.  I suspect a 774m victory is the result of messing with the scripts.

Thanks.  I’m winning more than losing but by double digits. Haven’t had a 200+ meter victory in a few days.  Still trying to remember how I snagged a 300+ win.

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4 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

Thanks.  I’m winning more than losing but by double digits. Haven’t had a 200+ meter victory in a few days.  Still trying to remember how I snagged a 300+ win.

Yeah, me too.  Now, just when I've got all the ducks lined up for the big win, the expected shift doesn't appear and instead goes the other way to favour the black boat especially in the last 1/4 of the race.   We might have to ask S4B how he is doing it.  

Understanding how the wind array is generated is the key I think.  I have seen some crazy shifts in the last day or so, oscillating much faster than it ever does in real life.

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2 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Yeah, me too.  Now, just when I've got all the ducks lined up for the big win, the expected shift doesn't appear and instead goes the other way to favour the black boat especially in the last 1/4 of the race.   We might have to ask S4B how he is doing it.  

His advice several posts back was pretty good.  I’m trying to figure out how a 300+ meter lead just evaporates in the last 1/4 of a race.  Must be gremlins.

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My large leads are often stolen by the black boat who is tacking like mad on a bad shift as I cruise on the lifted tack to the finish. Other times we are on the same long tack, their boat speed increases and they take a huge lead. 
I lost somewhere around 20 races in a row yesterday trying to figure out what real life sailing works compared to tacking on the VMG as the black boat does.

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I just raced 10 times. Sailing lazy I lost by 50+- meters. Sailor right to the VMG I lost by 250 meters.

In the last race the wind was close to the windward mark shifting slightly right. The computer “forgot”to tack on VMG and sailed a tight tacking course to the right side of the course. I stayed close to the black line and watched the numbers go up for revenge! 300+meters!!! Now back to work, darn it...

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And there he is, ladies and gentle creatures. At the top of the leader board.  Truth be told I have no idea how I got there.  Was playing the game, got distracted for some seconds, looked back and I was sitting on a multi hundred meter lead with 3/4 of the race over. Lucky, rather than good, strikes again.

 

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They want me back! :)

Hello Biggus Dickus

Sailing in real life is probably more difficult than in a game. Laylines are not visible, boat is not performing 100%, hard to see wind median etc.

The SailRacer app was not only developed based on expert sailor experience but also including the tack stats we analyzed from the Wind Game to even better understand what humans are doing different than the standard algorithm in various wind conditions.

If you love sailing like we do, try our free SailRacer app when you are out for real sailing and we are more than happy to get your opinion.

Download from GooglePlay (Android)

Get it on AppStore (iPhone,iPad)

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I watched the shifts for a few races and determined that it was shifting left to right over the course. The computer would tack every time on vmg and I would try to follow the black line staying left as much as I could. By the time the wind finally shifted right, I was 259 meters behind, however, the computer now had to fight left and I lifted on my last starboard tack to the Mark.

Don’t ask how it beats me by 250meters...grrr!

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20 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Looks like somebody played with the javascript:

image.png.2fe978b59509acf24b219ec6e3ed2e8b.png

Yup

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7 minutes ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

are you absolutely kidding me? 3288m!  I don't even think the course is that long!

 

Black boat must have been tied to the dock 

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