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MR.CLEAN

So I just bought an I-14 today...

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I finally made a deal today to pick up a boat for fun and practice. The owner is bringing it down for me after thanksgiving.

 

It's an I-14 "One Design Grand Prix) from maybe 2000, no racks, alloy mast, grand prix version (24 ' mast I think and long boom). I got a good enough deal and I trust the owner enough that I bought it sight unseen (although lots of pics). Oh, and my purchase is paying for a new runner for his M-24, which I will be trimming in florida.

 

I'm in SE Michigan, where there is not a lot of skiff racing, but I figured it'd be a good trainer in general and fun for me and the gf or as an after work toy with some of my more fun loving friends. If me and the girl put in the time, maybe we'd go and buy something more modern and try to do some travel trips for better racing.

 

Here's what I'm curious about:

 

1) Any info about the I-14 1D GP- why was it created, why did it die, are there any fleets still racing this version, can it be upgraded and competed somewhere?

 

2) I heard there's some skiff racing in Toronto- Details? Is there any "open" type class where you can race anything and get some kind of rating?

 

3) Miscellaneous tips for the boat in general

 

My background- many tens of thousands of miles of ocean sailing, probably 80 % deliveries and cruising and 20 racing, former sail training skipper on big wooden classics, many years race driving and crewing everything from V15's to IMS 60's...everything EXCEPT FOR TRAP-SKIFFS. My only trap experience is leisurely hanging off Hobie 16's with slow, well thought out tacks and gybes. I am 6'2, 210 lbs, very fit, girl is 5'7, 130 lbs. yoga instructor.

 

Thanks in advance, dear mentors.

 

-CLEAN

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Clean,

 

Good luck with that. As you know from my background I can't help with skiffs!

 

I would have expected to hear about an iceboat being acquired this time of year.

 

Get a wetsuit... no, get a drysuit! I don't even want to think about the water temps up there. I'm thinking about taking the dinghy out this PM down here and my toes (and other parts) curled up just thinkin bout it.

 

Have fun,

 

Just-

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girl is 5'7, 130 lbs. yoga instructor.

 

Thanks in advance, dear mentors.

 

-CLEAN

 

 

send me your girlfriend, i'll teach her everything you could possibly need to know about hanging from a wire by your crotch.

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girl is 5'7, 130 lbs. yoga instructor.

 

Thanks in advance, dear mentors.

 

-CLEAN

 

 

send me your girlfriend, i'll teach her everything you could possibly need to know about hanging from a wire by your crotch.

 

 

Damn, my mind is not working fast enough today! Doh!!!

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send me your girlfriend, i'll teach her everything you could possibly need to know about hanging from a wire by your crotch.

 

 

And she'll end up bringing yours, or your wife, or your daughter, back to my house for fun and games. She's just like that, ya know?

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Sounds to me like you have bought a One Design 14. For the right price it is a great boat, here's the story:

 

The One Designs were created a World's winning International 14 hull design (1987 or so I believe). In the late '80s though 1992 or so there was a pro circuit racing along with the Ultimate 30s featuring the likes of Cam Lewis and Stu Johnstone. The class pretty much died when money for the circuit dried up. After that the Saffer brothers bought the molds and rights to the boats. Many of the older hulls were built at Ontario bulders. Not sure which other builders were involved, or how many boats were ever produced. There were scattered fleets from Maryland to Newport through the late 90s. We would do weekend regattas of 8-12 boats, occasionally meeting up with Annapolis I-14s.

 

The boat measures as an I-14 under the old rules (new I-14s have longer sprint and taller mast) but the hull is built much heavier. At 200 pounds the hull is not excessively heavy, but new I-14s will wipe the floor with it. The upside of this and the alloy spars is that the boat is fairly bullet proof. I never saw any cases of hull failure and the occasional spar failure was either an impressive wipe out or other rigging parts (hmmm, I think we need bigger shoud pins...) We sailed the boats in 5-30 knots with no problem. The Saffer brothers had one memorable ride down Naragansett Bay in 35-40 with the chute up.

 

Great boat to get a taste of double trap thrills. Fairly wide and stable. And as mentioned you can beat the crap out of them. Another bonus is that when capsized they float low in the water, making getting on the center board fairly easy.

 

Now, normal weight ranges were 300-320, with 275 being the minimum. That said, since you won't be racing much, this just limits your heavy air sailing. Be warned that the fairly large spinaker and overlapping genoa can be a bit of a bear to handle for the crew.

 

Have fun!

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ok - deal is - she's gotta drive. These older boats are a workout for the crew - really.

 

Here's a Chicago based skiff fleet - was just talking to them yesterday - have 4 Cross 3's(similar if not identical to what you just bought) + a few new boats.

 

http://www.highperformancesailing.org

 

 

Have fun!

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Awesome! Have fun.

 

Toronto has a GREAT fleet of I-14's. The older boats there have just about totally dried up, but that is a good thing. They welcome all comers, and have a VERY active fleet. Ottowa also has a fleet of boats, and most of them are older boats (like yours). Though they recently purchased all the I-14's from Annapolis, and have a slightly more modern fleet now.

 

The boats are lots of fun. The OD-14s are bullet proof, lots of fun, and with the moderate sail area, are much easier to handle than the I-14. They often win races when all the I-14s capsize. But it is a great learning platform for dual traps, and is a good stepping stone for getting into faster dual trap boats like the 49er and I-14

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I used to race the OD 14, and it was a total blast. It is true that the OD14 was just a Cross III hull. The original; builder of the boats was Ontario yachts in Canada. Later, when Peter Johnstone sold the class to Marhsall Saffer in NY, they shifted production of the boats to Jibetech I think, and maybe another builder as well at some point. The post Ontario boats had a form fitting daggerboard slot instead of the large delrin plate that was on the bottom of the hull. This usually leaked and had was regualrly sliced open by the very sharp trailing edge of the daggerboard. The other obvious issue with that arrangement from a performance perspective was that there was this rectangular protuberance on the bottom of the hull, whic is not fast, so the newer OD's eliminated this too. Anyways, have fun with that. While the boat is totally not competitive with the newer/narrower and lighter boats, it still goes scary fast in a blow.

 

www.eliboat.com

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some more thoughts

 

"Any info about the I-14 1D GP- why was it created, why did it die, are there any fleets still racing this version, can it be upgraded and competed somewhere?"

 

The OD 14 was created by the Jonestones back in the late 80’s. It is a Cross 3 hull and rig and was (and is) a class legal I14. Unfortunately for the OD, the I14 evolved and got faster, & changed some measurements when the Northern & Southern hemisphere fleets combined, and the OD 14 was left behind. Don’t know if there are any OD fleets still around. There is a big I14 fleet in Toronto, and they still have a few of the “old rules” boats sailing in Canada. A few Toronto guys post here. There are a couple in Chicago too. I wouldn’t bother to upgrade this one, just learn how to sail, then if you like it – upgrade then to a newer boat. Your OD 14 is a bit heavier, a little narrower on the beam, a little wider at the waterline, has a shorter mast, and smaller sails then a “new rules” 14.

 

"I heard there's some skiff racing in Toronto- Details? Is there any "open" type class where you can race anything and get some kind of rating?"

 

See above - for combined fleets they race as one fleet but score separately – new rules & old rules boats

 

"Miscellaneous tips for the boat in general."

 

Welcome to fun. I have never felt acceleration, on any boat, like I have on the 14, not beach cats, not sleds, not 18 foot skiffs. They are just the quickest accelerating boats around. That being said – they are a challenge to sail. Just getting around the course is a challenge. You will go swimming - many times. The I14 is only stable upside-down. There was a guy years ago, who was doing a competitive 470 Olympic campaign, He got a Tuttle built Cross 3 (shape like yours, but carbon) and was going to “Kick ass” right away. On his first sail they tipped over 12 times, and came back to the dock with a “new plan”. 15 years later, he now is a world champ. I like all kinds of sailboat racing, but I like the 14 the best. Oh and don’t worry about the tipping over thing, you just get wet. The keelboat guys tease me like it’s a big deal, but it’s not – it happens to every skiff sailor – welcome to the club.

 

 

Speak0-R2-29.jpg

wet fun - photo Renee Speak

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Good for you, and congrats! Some people think you can beat a TP52 going upwind in it.

 

The thread

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Y'all are the shit. I joined the HPS group and will post pics of the flailing and dunking next spring.

 

Thanks for all the info. Lurkers, don't be bashful. Any experience is appreciated.

 

I promise I won't call anyone names unless you suggest wiring my girl's crotch.

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Congratulations! Sailing will never be the same for you again! I've never sailed an OD14, but my last boat was a penultimate boat which is similar. Regardless, they're great fun. As has been mentioned above, plan on lots of swimming at first, but one good ride with the kite and all the capsizes are worth it. Oh, a note on capsizes - they aren't anywhere near as scarry as you think they are going to be. In general, it's no big deal at all, you just get wet. Have fun and good luck!

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Guest One of Five

What are the size and weight ranges combined for these boats?

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I've got one too. It's a great boat, especially for taking newbies out. Stable, as compared to new the breed of I14's. Simple layout. Bagging, or stuffing the spinnaker under the "tramp" is a bit messy. I've heard some folks built spinnaker socks for them- that would be easier. Get yourself a forestay adjuster so you can adjust the rake. http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d6000/e5512.asp

 

The struts adjust for pre-bend in the mast. Make sure you tie the end of the mainsheet to something or it will be out the back of the boat in a heartbeat. I set the jib sheets up continous- it's easier for new crew. You can tie them off to the trapeze adjusters but then there is more stuff to hang yourself on going across the boat.

 

Have fun.

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What are the size and weight ranges combined for these boats?

 

from 330 lb (~150 kg) thru 400 lb (~181 kg) is competive

 

Any mix between crew & driver. If there were a choice, might go bigger on the driver, but it doesn't seem to matter all that much

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I've got one too. It's a great boat, especially for taking newbies out. Stable, as compared to new the breed of I14's. Simple layout. Bagging, or stuffing the spinnaker under the "tramp" is a bit messy. I've heard some folks built spinnaker socks for them- that would be easier. Get yourself a forestay adjuster so you can adjust the rake. http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d6000/e5512.asp

 

The struts adjust for pre-bend in the mast. Make sure you tie the end of the mainsheet to something or it will be out the back of the boat in a heartbeat. I set the jib sheets up continous- it's easier for new crew. You can tie them off to the trapeze adjusters but then there is more stuff to hang yourself on going across the boat.

 

Have fun.

 

Thanks, Brett. Could you give me a few words on what you've found to be balanced and fast with regards to rake and prebend? Do you stand the fucker up in displacement conditions, how raked will you get in big air, I understand the masthead can move through 70 cm or more, is this entirely cunningham/mainsheet or do you do a bunch of it through strut adjustment/prebend?

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you might consider modifing the jib sheets to be 2 to 1. Makes for lots of tail but loads easier to sail. we had that before the new boat came with a selftacker

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modern boats rake range is about 8"-10"(non mod. b3 magic #'s were 26'-6" to 25'-11 1/2") new boats #'s are a secret, but it's around 10" now (and the mast is 12" behind old boat's location). iirc from the gp i used to fook around with, it was only adjustable about 5". cunno and vang won't do much for the aluminum tree trunk of a mast...biggest issue with those was they weren't depowerable enough.

 

 

slightly off topic: can november be over already? that funny looking guy (driver) in the calendar this month is scaring me...

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I've got one too. It's a great boat, especially for taking newbies out. Stable, as compared to new the breed of I14's. Simple layout. Bagging, or stuffing the spinnaker under the "tramp" is a bit messy. I've heard some folks built spinnaker socks for them- that would be easier. Get yourself a forestay adjuster so you can adjust the rake. http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d6000/e5512.asp

 

The struts adjust for pre-bend in the mast. Make sure you tie the end of the mainsheet to something or it will be out the back of the boat in a heartbeat. I set the jib sheets up continous- it's easier for new crew. You can tie them off to the trapeze adjusters but then there is more stuff to hang yourself on going across the boat.

 

Have fun.

 

Thanks, Brett. Could you give me a few words on what you've found to be balanced and fast with regards to rake and prebend? Do you stand the fucker up in displacement conditions, how raked will you get in big air, I understand the masthead can move through 70 cm or more, is this entirely cunningham/mainsheet or do you do a bunch of it through strut adjustment/prebend?

 

Lots of vang as well when it's blowing- you'll need that to be able to trim the main. Since there is no one design racing going on get a purchase system for the cunningham. Oh yeah, make sure your stropes are long enough so you can center the boom, block to block on the mainsheet. I've raked back the full length of the forestay adjuster before in 20+. The 2-1 on the jib would be nice. In heavy air raise the board up- I've gone up 4" or so. That will free the boat up as well.

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don't spend a lot - but a few things are nice.

 

2:1 sheets like Pete said

spectra trap wires(wire are nasty all around)

really work to get friction out of the kite halyard - if there is any - it'll kill your crew. If your kire is well used, you might want to go as far as wiping it with mclube.

same with the pole - this might have a separate pole launcher. Lube the pole and tube, then lube again.

 

make sure the boat doesn't leak - it will - especially if it sat for awhile. Use the soapy water trick. You can provide enough air pressure by just getting a tube and blowing air into the boat. Sinking sucks.

 

Leave the ego at home, don't yell at your crew. The driver causes most capsizes anyway.

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Mr. Clean

 

I had a OD14 a few years ago too. There were 3 in Erie at one point. Another friend in Erie still has a GP. I had both rigs for it. I would switch to the small rig in spring and fall and the grand prix rig once the water warmed up a little. It is not that hard to sail. I even sailed it solo in lighter air with the kite.

 

Like the others said, the boat is tough. Press your finger on the bottom when you get it and you will find it doesn't budge. I'd say you made a good choice if you wanted a skiff that is still stable and something you won't bust every time you wipe out.

 

I always rigged the jib sheets to the windward trap, and I also tied the end of the mainsheet to keep it from getting sucked out the transom doors. You may find that you go through a hiking stick or two in the learning process. They are big ass sticks.

 

I stress cracked my daggerboard and ended up laying in tows of carbon tape in routered grooved to fix it. Another guy here broke his rudder. The hulls were always pretty solid, maybe a leak around the trunk, but that's boats.

 

I seem to recall the rig tensioner cleat on the front of the mast was an area I was very concerned about as the cleat could come undone. I think I tied it off after tensioning it.

 

You'll have to practice rigging up the asso as the retreiver line (spin halyard end) can be confounding until you figure it out. If you are sailing Melges, you probably have a good idea anyways.

 

Plan in losing your girlfriend around the forestay at least once, probably yourself too. And you will teabag. You will likely capsize, you will likely turtle. No big deal, the boat can take it. And if you can't teabag your g/f send here over.

 

BTW Mr. Clean - I was wiping the floor with you the other day.

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Mr Clear,

 

Congrats and I’d like to personally welcome you to, as a Tasar sailor at the Gorge once said, “The Hell Angel’s of Sailing.” Here is some information you will be needing to know.

 

Since you will undoubtedly want to hone your sailing skills, your crew will need to know the 4 accepted options for executing a perfect “dismount” in the extremely rare event that you suddenly find yourself slightly outside the sailing “envelope.” Another Anarchist was good enough to provide this information for me when I was starting out and I’ve been getting excellent marks ever since, even from the Russian judges…

 

option 1 - shoot the gap. this is going for the space between the hull and boom. this manouver is also known as, "watch me look like a scared chick as i fly to my death" as the best reaction is to scream real loud and throw your hands up towards your face in an attempt to save those dashingly good looks. the old adage of "chicks dig scars" works for hockey players, but not as well for skiffers.

 

option 2 - trampoline landing. in some cases, the wipeout will happen so quickly and fiercly that the crew will get ejected before the reactionary reflexes occur. in this instance, and while i am an agnostic, i believe your best reaction is a quick prayer. with luck the boat will still be travelling in an x axis while the crew is travelling in a y axis, thus preventing the shiskabob on the spreader tip or forced decapitation on a shroud. trust me...neither is fun, nor comfortable, and yes i have experienced both (though luckily not on my boat). so assuming you are clearing the rig...roll over to your back and try to land as flat as possible as well as covering the most sq. footage possible to spread the loads out on the main. the "rollover" is imperative as the feet first method has been proven, ad nauseum, to make ones day go very bad. plus, you will then get guys like pete m. looking at the pictures saying..."hey, it looks like a man sized hole!"

 

option 3 - scuba roll/flip, this is where a good crew becomes your and your boats equipment, best friend. as the boat is augering (where the chines start digging an the inevitable is ...well, inevitable) the crew releases the hook (usually done in the form of an 'ants-in-the-pants' dance) but continues to hold on to the trap handle. as the boat does finally go, and upon seeing his driver leave his boatbound presence looking like a bad nasa experiment (four letter expletives included), he simply lets go and rolls over the bottom of the hull and into the water. if he is really good, he rolls like a sea lion at pier 39, onto the side of the hull and directly to the board. i would consider this option your best chance at a quick recovery, and worth about 8 points to the judges. if you can get the crew to throw a gainer and even a half twist into it, i'm sure you'd be receiving 9's straight across...except for that fooking french judge. they'll give you 6's everytime just on principal.

 

option 4 - the spastic air swim, under only the worst of wipeouts should this be an option. this is reserved for the days when just sailing to the start makes you cry. you know, those days that you look at your crew while rigging up, still burping mt gay and tonics from only three hours ago when you finally left the party, and exclaim...."today is a good day to die". this manouver is usually an ejection with the wind at 25 kts plus with tall chop. you know something bad is gonna happen once you turn the weather mark, and before you even set the kite, you smell doodoo butter eminating from your crews wetsuit. kite goes up, boat goes from like 15 kts to 22+ in like two feet, and all you can think of is "why dont these boats have racks behind the stern?". over the top of one wave, through the next, crew barely staying in the loops, next wave off center, next wave over the bow and a roller puff...BOOM! its over that quick. now, one could say when you smelled dooodoo butter, that should have been your (and your crews) first hint that bad things are a brewin', but in reality, you don't want to sail the entire downhill like a nancy-boy, holding on to the trap handle like its your linus blanket. not to mention the fact that in those conditions your just trying to survive, and you are already busier than a fag in a dick tree just maintaining your composure. so you go for it and when the shit hits the fan, you merely let the arenaline and feminine insticts kick in. as you get ejected, let out the loudest and highest shrill you can muster (old karate movie grunts can be substituted, but once again, will probably equal a 3/4 point deduction), as you are flying (errr...as gravity takes affect) flap your arms and kick your legs in the most whitest of movements...loose all soul in your body an let the whiteness take over. the more arm revolutions and spastic leg kicks the better...in this case, looking really bad looks good. this should, in essence, get you an additional 3 or 4 feet of distance (and about .05 hang time increase), which might clear you from the main, but will most likely result in a hole a little higher up the main.

 

you must remember, no matter which option you actually choose, you will usually have plenty of time sailing back to the club in which to formulate a 'dramatic' description of the incident...best to use one that makes your team look really studly. if chicks are present at the time of description to the fleet, make sure you add something that will create the sympathy or ooooh factor from the feminine species (i.e. "we got this huge puff, drove off with it only to find a cute and furry harbor seal/dolphin/kitty cat right in our line of travel. rather than kill an innocent creature, we decided to gracefully round up and perform our 'scuba roll' with a half gainer") the chicks will be doubly impressed...a man with sensitivity as well as grace.

 

only four choices to choose from in a 1/2 second moment in time...pretty simple eh? hope this covers your question

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bhyde

 

You have me laughing hysterically and calling all my mutual friends of this one guy and myself because Option 1 is perfectly fitting my buddy Matt whose wife bought him a Vanguard Vector last year. I took him out in it so he could check it out and of course we wiped out (lots of 505 experience but skiff experience is short and he's a complete novice). He proceeded to scream like a little girl and after I was able to get this 35yo man back in the boat and to chill out I immediately took the boat in because I was afraid that I was going to laugh in his face.

 

WCB

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flap your arms and kick your legs in the most whitest of movements...loose all soul in your body an let the whiteness take over.

xlnt bhyde

 

slightly off topic: can november be over already? that funny looking guy (driver) in the calendar this month is scaring me

and aA, if you are refering to the R. Speak I14 calendar, you haven't looked at december yet, have you?

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Oops, almost forgot…

 

Once you’ve mastered some of the basics, there will be times when you’re out on the water and there just isn’t enough wind to get happy about. At these times you will want to start working on some “Stupid Skiff Tricks.” Here are a few examples:

 

Stupid Skiff Trick 1: Handstand Hiking – This is a real crowd pleaser and is guaranteed to convince any keelboaters in the area that you truly are “Da Shit”. While sailing in light to medium conditions, have your crew trapeze off the racks (or wings in your case) with his hands instead of his feet. He basically just does a handstand off the side of the boat while hanging from the trap, feet ‘a danglin’ in the wind. Bonus Points: If you, as the driver, can do this while steering the boat with the tiller extension in your teeth, you need not ever prove your manhood again.

 

Stupid Skiff Trick 2: Skiff Wheelie – When other boats see this, it look so weird that they will probably call the Coast Guard. While sailing in really light conditions, hook into the trap and have your crew go to the opposite side of the boat and hook into the trap. Balance the boat so each of you can fully extend off the racks. Now both of you start slowly moving aft until the bow of the boat comes out of the water. Done correctly you can actually get the boat to sail around with the nose at about 45 degrees. Don’t go too far aft or the boat will do a back flip. Bonus Points: have someone at the dock bring your cradle to the edge of the dock as you sail into the harbor doin’ the Skiff Wheelie. Drive the boat right into the cradle. A huge round of applause will erupt from the galley and rounds of drinks will be served on the house. Note, remember to pull the dagger board up, ouch!

 

Stupid Skiff Trick 3: Skiff Bodysurf – Cool and refreshing! While sailing in medium conditions hand the tiller extension to your crew (that will be his first clue that you’re about to engage in some skiff frivolity and he’ll just roll his eye’s at you like he always does). Unhook from the trap and slide into the water using only your hands to hold on to one of the foot straps or some other convenient hunk of hardware. Weeeeeeeee. If you can get back into the boat while it’s moving, you’re in great shape, congrats. If not, just let go when your crew isn’t looking and see how long it takes him to realize you’re not there. Bonus Points: Grab the rudder and make the boat wipe out. See if you can guess which dismount option (see above) your crew will select. This also is a good trick to perform if, during the course of the day, you have accumulated a large quantity of doodoo butter in your wetsuit. Simply crack your wetsuit collar open a little and watch the little chucks of fear power wash out your pant legs. Adjust your dietary fiber as required.

 

The lists goes on and on as there are almost an infinite variety of Stupid Skiff Tricks that you can use to improve your sailing skills and generally impress the world at large. But do remember that no matter what trick you are about to attempt, always say, “Hey, watch this!” first to guarantee a dramatic outcome and possible TV coverage.

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if only tyco had appreciated my prose as much as you bobby (btw, don't forget #3 works welll when your fill-in crew has an unnanounced hypoglycemia attack mid capsize recovery)...

 

 

pete - look at the dude in the visor on this months page. much scarier looking than those rollers in hawaii last year, imnsho.

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pete - look at the dude in the visor on this months page. much scarier looking than those rollers in hawaii last year, imnsho

aA - the B&W pally, the B&W

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aA - the B&W pally, the B&W

 

hahaha...kelp check or did heffe have to use the facilities?

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what's the weight range on the I14? is there an ideal crew/skipper weight, or does only combined weight matter?

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From my experience. Don't take the girl friend unless she is as crazy about sailing as you. When I had a 505, I took some girl friends sailing and they usually decided to walk home (from the midle of the lake) I usually caught them by the life jacket as I heard the splash. We didn't event get the kite out. Just a leasurly sail with the main and jib.

 

When it is cold, you will love the dry suit. In the summer it will be too hot unless the water is very cold. Expect to swim a lot to start with. Go out in light wind first and work you way up to the screamers. I've never been in a 14 but skiffs are a blast.

 

Be careful you may get hooked.

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if only tyco had appreciated my prose as much as you bobby (btw, don't forget #3 works welll when your fill-in crew has an unnanounced hypoglycemia attack mid capsize recovery)...

 

Word!

 

Btw: Why is it every time I go out on a boat with you at some point I hear, “Go towards the light Bob, go towards the light…?” Is that normal or should I be worried or something?

 

Btw:Btw: Nice pix of you with the matching Gucci outfits in the new Calendar.

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Oops, almost forgot…

 

Once you’ve mastered some of the basics, there will be times when you’re out on the water and there just isn’t enough wind to get happy about. At these times you will want to start working on some “Stupid Skiff Tricks.” Here are a few examples:

 

Stupid Skiff Trick 1: Handstand Hiking – This is a real crowd pleaser and is guaranteed to convince any keelboaters in the area that you truly are “Da Shit”. While sailing in light to medium conditions, have your crew trapeze off the racks (or wings in your case) with his hands instead of his feet. He basically just does a handstand off the side of the boat while hanging from the trap, feet ‘a danglin’ in the wind. Bonus Points: If you, as the driver, can do this while steering the boat with the tiller extension in your teeth, you need not ever prove your manhood again.

 

Stupid Skiff Trick 2: Skiff Wheelie – When other boats see this, it look so weird that they will probably call the Coast Guard. While sailing in really light conditions, hook into the trap and have your crew go to the opposite side of the boat and hook into the trap. Balance the boat so each of you can fully extend off the racks. Now both of you start slowly moving aft until the bow of the boat comes out of the water. Done correctly you can actually get the boat to sail around with the nose at about 45 degrees. Don’t go too far aft or the boat will do a back flip. Bonus Points: have someone at the dock bring your cradle to the edge of the dock as you sail into the harbor doin’ the Skiff Wheelie. Drive the boat right into the cradle. A huge round of applause will erupt from the galley and rounds of drinks will be served on the house. Note, remember to pull the dagger board up, ouch!

 

Stupid Skiff Trick 3: Skiff Bodysurf – Cool and refreshing! While sailing in medium conditions hand the tiller extension to your crew (that will be his first clue that you’re about to engage in some skiff frivolity and he’ll just roll his eye’s at you like he always does). Unhook from the trap and slide into the water using only your hands to hold on to one of the foot straps or some other convenient hunk of hardware. Weeeeeeeee. If you can get back into the boat while it’s moving, you’re in great shape, congrats. If not, just let go when your crew isn’t looking and see how long it takes him to realize you’re not there. Bonus Points: Grab the rudder and make the boat wipe out. See if you can guess which dismount option (see above) your crew will select. This also is a good trick to perform if, during the course of the day, you have accumulated a large quantity of doodoo butter in your wetsuit. Simply crack your wetsuit collar open a little and watch the little chucks of fear power wash out your pant legs. Adjust your dietary fiber as required.

 

The lists goes on and on as there are almost an infinite variety of Stupid Skiff Tricks that you can use to improve your sailing skills and generally impress the world at large. But do remember that no matter what trick you are about to attempt, always say, “Hey, watch this!” first to guarantee a dramatic outcome and possible TV coverage.

 

 

I'm starting to think I want one...

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I'm starting to think I want one...

 

Certainly will redefine sailing for you.

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I'm starting to think I want one...

 

Certainly will redefine sailing for you.

 

 

Ned, where are you located. I've got a Benedict IV I'll sell you cheap. Actually fairly sorted out.

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Oops, almost forgot…

 

Once you’ve mastered some of the basics, there will be times when you’re out on the water and there just isn’t enough wind to get happy about. At these times you will want to start working on some “Stupid Skiff Tricks.” Here are a few examples:

 

Stupid Skiff Trick 1: Handstand Hiking – This is a real crowd pleaser and is guaranteed to convince any keelboaters in the area that you truly are “Da Shit”. While sailing in light to medium conditions, have your crew trapeze off the racks (or wings in your case) with his hands instead of his feet. He basically just does a handstand off the side of the boat while hanging from the trap, feet ‘a danglin’ in the wind. Bonus Points: If you, as the driver, can do this while steering the boat with the tiller extension in your teeth, you need not ever prove your manhood again.

 

Stupid Skiff Trick 2: Skiff Wheelie – When other boats see this, it look so weird that they will probably call the Coast Guard. While sailing in really light conditions, hook into the trap and have your crew go to the opposite side of the boat and hook into the trap. Balance the boat so each of you can fully extend off the racks. Now both of you start slowly moving aft until the bow of the boat comes out of the water. Done correctly you can actually get the boat to sail around with the nose at about 45 degrees. Don’t go too far aft or the boat will do a back flip. Bonus Points: have someone at the dock bring your cradle to the edge of the dock as you sail into the harbor doin’ the Skiff Wheelie. Drive the boat right into the cradle. A huge round of applause will erupt from the galley and rounds of drinks will be served on the house. Note, remember to pull the dagger board up, ouch!

 

Stupid Skiff Trick 3: Skiff Bodysurf – Cool and refreshing! While sailing in medium conditions hand the tiller extension to your crew (that will be his first clue that you’re about to engage in some skiff frivolity and he’ll just roll his eye’s at you like he always does). Unhook from the trap and slide into the water using only your hands to hold on to one of the foot straps or some other convenient hunk of hardware. Weeeeeeeee. If you can get back into the boat while it’s moving, you’re in great shape, congrats. If not, just let go when your crew isn’t looking and see how long it takes him to realize you’re not there. Bonus Points: Grab the rudder and make the boat wipe out. See if you can guess which dismount option (see above) your crew will select. This also is a good trick to perform if, during the course of the day, you have accumulated a large quantity of doodoo butter in your wetsuit. Simply crack your wetsuit collar open a little and watch the little chucks of fear power wash out your pant legs. Adjust your dietary fiber as required.

 

The lists goes on and on as there are almost an infinite variety of Stupid Skiff Tricks that you can use to improve your sailing skills and generally impress the world at large. But do remember that no matter what trick you are about to attempt, always say, “Hey, watch this!” first to guarantee a dramatic outcome and possible TV coverage.

 

 

I'm starting to think I want one...

 

 

And that’s just the beginning! We even have a secret handshake and a little hazing ritual called “Jungle Fire” I know you will enjoy.

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pajon, from above

 

from 330 lb (~150 kg) thru 400 lb (~181 kg) is competive

 

Any mix between crew & driver. If there were a choice, might go bigger on the driver, but it doesn't seem to matter all that much

 

brett - Ned's "already got one"

(monty python ref)

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Maybe you and Ron would like to go back and relive the old days. I've already tried to give the boat away so I'm thinking if I ask money someone will think it has value and want it.

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if only tyco had appreciated my prose as much as you bobby (btw, don't forget #3 works welll when your fill-in crew has an unnanounced hypoglycemia attack mid capsize recovery)...

 

 

pete - look at the dude in the visor on this months page. much scarier looking than those rollers in hawaii last year, imnsho.

 

 

AA,

You're killin' me. How about the Nancy boy screaming for Mommy b/c he's skirred up on the bow (bottom of Jun 2006 calendar) I didn't think you needed a bow Monkey on these boats. Pete M looks like he's itchin' his Hemmroids in the (Dec 2005 B&W shot). Has everyone ordered thier calendars? They're going fast.

 

Mr. Clean,

Congrates, you'll love it. Definately get ahold of the Chicago / midwest group as they are all in the same situation as you and in steep learning mode. I heard one of my old boats was in Detroit area last yr., so there are some other 14ers around. Great to hook up w./ the Toranto group as well. Very helpful to spend time and discuss w/ others. Your sailing experiences are about to change for the better. Soon even the M-24 will be too tame in 25 kts. of breeze. Enjoy sailing unleaded!

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Brett,

 

The want one part was quoted from JDougherty just above.

 

I have three of them including an OD14 which is sold but not paid for yet, an ICE USA 1108, and an M12 USA 1157. To keep things simple all my mains say USA 1139.

 

We now refer to the Melges 24 as "the lead mine".

 

Dont stop pimping the B IV. The penultimates are a great gateway drug. About half of our fleet in kaneohe are penultimates.

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Some tips from one of our more experienced 12ft skiff guys

 

Skiffs Rule 1

In a contest between the rudder and the sails, when the sails are big they ALLWAYS win!

So sail it like a windsurfer (Its the only way you can go wavejumping 2 up!)

Roll the rig to windward to bear away and use fore and aft trim to change the helm, you will see twelves down under that are leaping to windward with both crew on the wire aft of the transome the rig raked over the tuck and to windward this is to ballance the boat.(like a windsurfer)

 

Skiffs Rule 2

There is no difference between dong the right thing too slow (or fast) and doing the wrong thing.

Both ways you end up "on the fin" so work on timing and train your reflexes (thats why not thinking about it works for people when they sail by "feel")

 

Skiffs Rule 3

If it is hard to pull on ease it, its faster and skiffing is an apparent wind game, just like windsurfing.

If it feels good DO IT

 

Skiffs Rule 4

The rudder is a handbrake and can only slow you down more or less, the boat will not jump untill there is no helm (when this occurs determines what range of breeze more than rig size, though minimising drag helps)

If you use it to round a mark , tack or gybe you will slow down, and if your trim and ballance is not perfect you will stall and the sails will win returning the boat to its natural state (perfect for a sudden a fin inspection).

 

Skiff Rule 5

"Flat is FAST" this applies to ALL sails as well as the boat trim, to allow acceleration and pump up your apparent.

 

Skiff Rule 6

The headsail will put you "in the piss" more than any other sail.

Unless your trim is perfect you cannot bear away without stalling, or round up at will, without the headsail eased.

When the breeze is fresh and you are two sail reaching, sail with the jib eased to just luffing so that you can go up or down a bit without touching it, or you will assume the position "on the fin again" (not arthur finnigan)

The headsail tacks the boat, by easing the headsail suddenly to spin the boat into the wind and then backing the headsail out of the tack.

Ensure you are through the tack and the boat is flat before sheeting on normaly.

 

Skiff Rule 7

Fast is safe, the sooner and faster you can get the boat moving the easier the boats are to sail,.

To do this get on the wire, no wire no pace, no pace no good, no good no sail.

It is faster and safer to be crouched on the wire than sitting on the gunwale.

 

Skiff Rule 8.

The lightest crewmember goes through first....

 

...and grabs the spinnaker sheet as far towards the clew as they can reach, the heavier behemoth lumbers through the boat as fast as he can heaving the boom through as he goes to speed himself up and assist the gybe, when the boat is dead square and goose winging the kite.

This is a stablising point and if the breeze is really wild or the waves require a pause you can over sheet the kite in this mode and backed or not you will hove too when he is sure the rig is not rolling too far or fast (there may be no pause at all with practice)the skipper yells "now" if he is the runner or simply pulls down to the water line with the spinnaker sheet, making the leach tight, and all that is required to blow the chute through onto the other tack is the smallest twitch on the tiller which is required because the heavyest has by now hooked up and is jumping on the wire allowing the boat to be pushed up filling the spinnaker on the new gybe, the lightweight has tailed new sheet in his spare time and the as the he hits the wire he drops th old sheet, the spinnaker fills with a crack and the boat jumps away assuming he has tailed enough sheet for it to fill.

 

Jumping on the wire after a gybe allows the boat to be pointed up and accelerate

the sooner you do this the less likely you will be to roll the rig the wrong way cause the rudder to be necessary, and as you are going slow the rudder will fail to beat the sails in the eternal contest.

 

As you gybe you must be accutly aware of where the masthead is as that is what is steering the boat with the headsail blanketed (like a windsurfer).

All other gybing systems are a variation of this method but with more freedom as the skipper and crew are closer in weight, but also harder as it is harder to keep enough weight on the wire and the sails full.

 

 

Skiff Rule 9.

Skiffs do have brakes, as in the example above you can hove to or you can be just trying to get settled after a set, a good method is for the crew to jump out first and as the boat speeds up the skipper follows, problem is that as the skipper jumps out his extra weight sends the boat ballistik, before he has his feet under a fruit loop(foot strap made of cord and plastic tube)you are airbourne with the bitch of all weather helm problems the rig comes to windward and you do an exiting maoeuver called the "windward skate" (or an all standing bearaway to by the lee with two on the wire) part of this move is performed with the crew underwater, and the skipper needs a new trappeze elastic.

 

OR the crew could just over sheet the kite, the boat heaves to and slows the lee helm jacks the skipper onto the gunwale and assuming he is hooked up the fwd hand tucks his skippers toes (both feet) under the straps where they belong.

and eases out the chute, this is the fun bit.

Works good to avoid collisions too.

 

Skiff Rule 10.

You know you have too much sail up, when you nose dive and round up at the same time (or you are in a 12' skiff)

When you have it all ballanced too perfection and you have the boat accelerating like a shower of shit off a shiny shovel you get a gust and bear away with it to keep the boat under the rig and next thing you know you are running square and the rig is still accelerating faster than the boat, then the nose starts to sniff, all Yahooing ceases and with a hush you hold the boat under full power straight nose dive (or "going down the mine") ballanced and true untill it is standing on its nose with the mast head on the water, the better the trim the longer it will stay (unless your pole is stuck in a mud bank)

There is no shame in mining, and it is often said the the famous trophy known as the "Miners Helmet" awarded to the "underall champion" has been won many times by the crew who jagged the overall the next season!

The Miners helmet is awarded heat by heat, and eventually for the series for the best straightest and most skillfull nosedives.

For going for more pace is the way to get out of trouble, win and also to do the best nosedives.

 

 

Stupid Skiff Trick 4 Play chicken with a 200ft Ferry

post-720-1130990763_thumb.jpg

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Brett,

 

The want one part was quoted from JDougherty just above.

 

I have three of them including an OD14 which is sold but not paid for yet, an ICE USA 1108, and an M12 USA 1157. To keep things simple all my mains say USA 1139.

 

We now refer to the Melges 24 as "the lead mine".

 

Dont stop pimping the B IV. The penultimates are a great gateway drug. About half of our fleet in kaneohe are penultimates.

 

I'm picking up USA 1110 tomorrow and NZL 43 is getting shipped in a couple of weeks. The OD 14 is USA 236 and the old Bene is USA 1063 sister boat to Ron and Pete's 1062.

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Cool,congrats.

 

What is 1110? Is NZL 43 one of the Bourke B3's?

 

See you in Hawaii for PacRims then?

 

n

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Cool,congrats.

 

What is 1110? Is NZL 43 one of the Bourke B3's?

 

See you in Hawaii for PacRims then?

 

n

 

 

I'm not exactly sure what 1110 is- I believe it is a prototype B2 that was built for Paul B for the '96 Worlds. I don't know if was sailed there though. Maybe someone else knows. I'm going to use it basically for practice for a couple of months so I don't beat up on the B3. The B3 is one of Bourke's but was built by Dan Slater. The boat should be plenty fast given Dan got 4th at the last Worlds.

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1110 was the original BII that the molds were pulled off. Not sure, but I believe someone sailed it at '97 Worlds. Dan's boat will be good, (Ned it the sistership to Howards NZL boat which I think has made it to HI by now) Different look to it, very Bourkish appearance. Dan is a hell of a sailor and I think could make about anything go well. Will you be heading down to ABYC and San Diego for any of the winter series?

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There are clearly some fucked up kids sailing these things. Thanks for welcoming me to the fold. Trust- I will not disappoint, at least if being fucked up in the head and not afraid of wet or pain is the chief prerequisite. And yeah, the girl is just as fucking out of her mind. And would be the first to admit it.

 

By the way, Brett, if that is your shit you wrote there, you need to expand it into a book. For real, that's some fruity kind shit you put up there, and the "rules" will be going on the wall if my office I use for inspiration. Right now it's got a 36 x 48 " print of the flying tiger deck plan.

 

Night...

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Stupid Skiff Trick 1: Handstand Hiking

 

Stupid Skiff Trick 2: Skiff Wheelie

 

Only a queenslander would do this, the sun gets to them you know

post-720-1131006835_thumb.jpg

post-720-1131007058_thumb.jpg

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Mr Clean, congrats. Welcome to the world of true insanity. The Midwest group has a few penultimates you could sail with. The Toronto fleet is solid with about 20+ modern I14s, and a half dozen 49ers. Most of their old I14s are here in Ottawa. The Ottawa fleet is a dozen I14s, half of which are penultimates (pre-96 rules I14s).

 

Your two best competition options if you want a significant regatta in the East, or Midwest is the Toronto fall regatta (Canadian championships this year, last year it was the North Americans, guaranteed to get 20+ I14s), or go to Ottawa, where every spring they host a multi-class skiff regatta. Last year it attracted about 40 skiffs.

 

I think that there's normally a regatta in Madison, much nearer you once per summer as well. The midwest high perf group mentioned above would have the details.

 

For info on the Toronto fleet, go to www.i14.ca, or for Ottawa go to their Newsgroup http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/ottawaskiffracingfleet/ .

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Brettmx

 

What does something like your Bene go for? Just curious

 

WCB

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I had a OD 14 GP for a few years in the '90s with my girl friend as crew. And yes, she is my wife now....

 

All of the above apply, but some comments were I-14 speciffic.

 

Check the hull for leaks. The boat has internal ring frames. To get all the water out you will have to stand it sideways/inverted.

 

Do tie off the shroud adjuster after tightening it. You don't want this to slip in a blow...

 

A newby mistake is to sail the boat like it is doing a wheely. Keep the knuckle down near the water by moving foreward as long as possible. Obviously you will want to get aft under chute once powered up. You will know when that is...

 

Watch your trapeze hook on the inside skins when climbing back in. They ding easily.

 

Buy knee pads until you learn to stay off your knees...

 

Helm traps always. In light air move crew forward and leeward so the helm can trap. My the girlfriend once fell assleep there during a light air day sail. That pretty much was the time I knew she would be my wife....

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That pretty much was the time I knew she would be my wife....

 

Yeah, although I don't believe in marriage, it was an offshore fishing trip that really decided the commitment thing for me. South Beach, 30 knots, fishing for sails with live bait on kites. Steep 8 foot waves so she went and passed out on the floor of the cabin. I woke her up to bring in a sailfish, she said "let me sleep." We came in four hours later, she woke up at the dock, and said "can we go sailing now? It's way more fun than fishing"

 

Thanks for the tips. The inside of the boat does look pretty fragile.

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Oops, almost forgot…

 

Once you’ve mastered some of the basics, there will be times when you’re out on the water and there just isn’t enough wind to get happy about. At these times you will want to start working on some “Stupid Skiff Tricks.” Here are a few examples:

 

Stupid Skiff Trick 1: Handstand Hiking – This is a real crowd pleaser and is guaranteed to convince any keelboaters in the area that you truly are “Da Shit”. While sailing in light to medium conditions, have your crew trapeze off the racks (or wings in your case) with his hands instead of his feet. He basically just does a handstand off the side of the boat while hanging from the trap, feet ‘a danglin’ in the wind. Bonus Points: If you, as the driver, can do this while steering the boat with the tiller extension in your teeth, you need not ever prove your manhood again.

 

Stupid Skiff Trick 2: Skiff Wheelie – When other boats see this, it look so weird that they will probably call the Coast Guard. While sailing in really light conditions, hook into the trap and have your crew go to the opposite side of the boat and hook into the trap. Balance the boat so each of you can fully extend off the racks. Now both of you start slowly moving aft until the bow of the boat comes out of the water. Done correctly you can actually get the boat to sail around with the nose at about 45 degrees. Don’t go too far aft or the boat will do a back flip. Bonus Points: have someone at the dock bring your cradle to the edge of the dock as you sail into the harbor doin’ the Skiff Wheelie. Drive the boat right into the cradle. A huge round of applause will erupt from the galley and rounds of drinks will be served on the house. Note, remember to pull the dagger board up, ouch!

 

Stupid Skiff Trick 3: Skiff Bodysurf – Cool and refreshing! While sailing in medium conditions hand the tiller extension to your crew (that will be his first clue that you’re about to engage in some skiff frivolity and he’ll just roll his eye’s at you like he always does). Unhook from the trap and slide into the water using only your hands to hold on to one of the foot straps or some other convenient hunk of hardware. Weeeeeeeee. If you can get back into the boat while it’s moving, you’re in great shape, congrats. If not, just let go when your crew isn’t looking and see how long it takes him to realize you’re not there. Bonus Points: Grab the rudder and make the boat wipe out. See if you can guess which dismount option (see above) your crew will select. This also is a good trick to perform if, during the course of the day, you have accumulated a large quantity of doodoo butter in your wetsuit. Simply crack your wetsuit collar open a little and watch the little chucks of fear power wash out your pant legs. Adjust your dietary fiber as required.

 

The lists goes on and on as there are almost an infinite variety of Stupid Skiff Tricks that you can use to improve your sailing skills and generally impress the world at large. But do remember that no matter what trick you are about to attempt, always say, “Hey, watch this!” first to guarantee a dramatic outcome and possible TV coverage.

 

 

I'm starting to think I want one...

 

 

And that’s just the beginning! We even have a secret handshake and a little hazing ritual called “Jungle Fire” I know you will enjoy.

 

"Jungle fire" that sounds good, we have a "Virgin converstion" and nude belly sliding rituals and as for the secert handshake, well I'll have a Heineken thanks.

 

But welcome to the skiff world have fun and tell your mates

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Another basic tip is on bearing away. Try and get some windward heel on the boat, usaually helm stays out on the wire as crew moves in. This aids the boat completely and allows you to "stab" the boat down wind with the rudder. In any sort of wind you need a quick bear away and do not do it gradually. The reason for this is as the boat bears away the rig can accelarate with too much power and the hull can't keep up with the acceleration, making the nose dig in and basically you go "tit over arse" (pitch pole). By stabbing the boat down wind, you minimise the time for the rig to power up, minimising your risk of going down the mine.

 

I haven't seen this advice before, but it reminds me of the 50 degree "stabs" you sometimes need to do on beach cats to keep the leeward hull from submarining with the same end result. Is it that much of a stab on an I-14?

 

One more quick question: Doesn anyone know the difference in rig height/SA between the OD-14 with Grand Prix rig to a Cross III with the typical race rig at the time?

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You also need to read this. It primarily relates to the Kiwi R Class, which is probablty a bit more extreme than the 14, beoing lighter and shorter, but it mostly still applies.

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anyone know the difference in rig height/SA between the OD-14 with Grand Prix rig to a Cross III with the typical race rig at the time?

 

no difference, they were identical at the time

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Same deal when turning up through the zone also. Get set then make a quick turn toward close hauled.

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I had a OD 14 GP for a few years in the '90s with my girl friend as crew. And yes, she is my wife now....

 

All of the above apply, but some comments were I-14 speciffic.

 

Check the hull for leaks. The boat has internal ring frames. To get all the water out you will have to stand it sideways/inverted.

 

Do tie off the shroud adjuster after tightening it. You don't want this to slip in a blow...

 

A newby mistake is to sail the boat like it is doing a wheely. Keep the knuckle down near the water by moving foreward as long as possible. Obviously you will want to get aft under chute once powered up. You will know when that is...

 

Watch your trapeze hook on the inside skins when climbing back in. They ding easily.

 

Buy knee pads until you learn to stay off your knees...

 

Helm traps always. In light air move crew forward and leeward so the helm can trap. My the girlfriend once fell assleep there during a light air day sail. That pretty much was the time I knew she would be my wife....

 

 

My wife -- then girlfriend -- loved the 14 as well. We had a OD14 GP for several years as well, along with a ~new rules 14. It was our first twin-wire dinghy. When we decided to join the keelboat racing crowd, her only stipulation was that it be as fun as the 14. We ended up with a Henderson 30, which is about as close as you can get and still invite 8 of your friends... Now we are looking to the day when we can get another skiff and get our daughter into it.

 

What we learned about the boat:

 

If she bruises easily, wear a wetsuit all the time -- for the padding more than the warmth. Even with a wetsuit, my wife would end up looking like she just came from a cage match. The knee pads are in addition.

 

The kite has a lot of load on it for the size of the boat, so make sure you run the spin sheet through the ratchet blocks the right direction... :(

 

Keep the entire kite system well-lubed.

 

On the douse, the crew should haul the entire kite into the cockpit, bundle it up as tightly as possible, then tuck it back forward under the trampoline. This makes it much more likely to stay under control through the wipeouts.

 

Tie a loop of string around the tiller to the top pintle on the rudder. When you are really flying off the wind and all the way back on the transom, the tiller extension has a nasty habit of pulling the tiller UP, which led to some of our more spectacular wipeouts.

 

You'll know you've got it when you are flying along off the wind, two-wiring, and you only have two fingers on the tiller extension. The boat is that smooth.

 

Check out the Chicago group. We raced with them at Lake Pepin this summer and they are a great bunch of people. They have several OD14's.

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A quick questions for you more astute I-14 folks out there. Someone mentioned to me that most of the I-14's they've seen have the heavier crew on the helm. I've intended for the girlfriend (<120 lbs or 54 kilos) to drive, assuming my 210 lbs (95 kilos) would be better used getting out on the wire quickly, whereas she can concentrate on driving and gradually work her way to the wire (she has zero trap experience).

 

What say you all to the weight distribution with big guy/small girl combo?

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much better - crew work is tough stuff in any breeze. You can still get far enough back when you need to by overlapping your legs.

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I thought the lighter person was best on the stick?

 

T

 

I think that's what Mitch just said. Thanks for the reply. I'd rather be the one to deal with getting gored by a spreader anyway.

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I thought the lighter person was best on the stick?

 

T

 

was more of a fact in the pre-foil days. t-foils have really equalized the weight differential (crew v. driver) issue. for example t, look at our local fleet... myself, big l, pinky, mr. h (not bobby), one of the morrison owners, and i believe jt are all larger than our crews. my preference is to have the weight in the back of the bus. if it gets gnarly, you're gonna want weight way aft downhill, and uphill in all conditions, the weight is all riding on foil anyway.

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I'd agree on puting her on the helm. My ex crew has pointed out several times to me how much safer the back of the bus is since she bought the boat and has been driving! If she has no trap experience, you'll probably want to give her a chance to get comfortable on the trap crewing a few times before she tries it driving. Driving from the wire is pretty easy, it's getting out there and back in that will cause the adventures. So, maybe start out w/ her driving but switch it up a bit before she tries it from the wire. Plus, you'll both have a lot more patience w/ each other having switched jobs for a bit! Sounds like you're going to have some great fun!

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in the best of all worlds, bigger aft would be my choice. The last world champ was big aft (well, both big). But as the others say, with the foil it seems to matter little. The top US boat has a small helm, and there's us too. The front is defo more work - even more work with a self tacker, when the crew takes the main.

 

_D2X0225%20copy.jpg Pacific fog, thx Sean

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Jeesh - I need to take a clarity in writing class. What I meant is - put her in the back of the bus - cause the workload on the crew is pretty high. The weights not really the issue.

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I thought the lighter person was best on the stick?

 

T

 

I think that's what Mitch just said. Thanks for the reply. I'd rather be the one to deal with getting gored by a spreader anyway.

 

 

Mr. Clean, I think you'll find out that in a big crash, no one is safe from sudden impact syndrome with the rig or other parts of the boat!

 

T

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Any others out there with penultimates that are interested in coming to the worlds in Sept in Long Beach. Separate class?

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With a T-Foil you can get more lift on the foil with the heavy one aft as max lift is limited by longitudinal stability (No good to do a nosedive). Who goes out first depends on course (up helm, down crew).

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With regards to big crew/skipper, its not really a drama as to the weight distribution. you can always move your body weight to where it is needed. What is far more important is that the stronger person plays with the kite - the front end of a 14 is a very physical job, especially when it comes to setting and dropping.

 

The only thing is - get her to jump out on the wire first downwind. Upwind is not so important and the crew should be out first however downwind is different. As soon as you gybe and you hit the wire, the boat will immediately take off, the apparent will come around, the boat will need to go away with it and she will have to gingerly creep out onto the side, at speed while sliding the tiller through her hand and keeping her balance. you need to be forward enough to give her the room to do this and the whole situation is perfect for sticking the nose in, soon to be followed by a close inspection of the centreboard. She weighs bugger-all anyway so she should be able to jump out pretty happily.

 

Speaking of weight, you will be a fairly light combination. It shouldn't be a significant disadvantage if you have very good boat-handling skills, it'll just be a little frustrating until you acieve those skills. A crew with a combined of 140kg (310lb) came 11th in the recent Australian titles, they were very fast in all conditions but its taken them a while to get to that stage.

 

So anyway, thats my convoluted 0.02c thinking back over this topic, you have had the boat for a while now so how have things gone? or has winter beaten you to the sailing?

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Any others out there with penultimates that are interested in coming to the worlds in Sept in Long Beach. Separate class?

Interesting point, at the aus nationals this year, they decided not to award handicap places. Instead, prizes were awarded to the top 3 'non-racked' boats. Still something to race for, and therefore a good reason to buy an older boat.

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Speaking of weight, you will be a fairly light combination. It shouldn't be a significant disadvantage if you have very good boat-handling skills, it'll just be a little frustrating until you acieve those skills. A crew with a combined of 140kg (310lb) came 11th in the recent Australian titles, they were very fast in all conditions but its taken them a while to get to that stage.

 

So anyway, thats my convoluted 0.02c thinking back over this topic, you have had the boat for a while now so how have things gone? or has winter beaten you to the sailing?

 

Unfortunately, the ice beat me to the lake. We tried to have her before thanksgiving so we could pull her to Lake Lanier and do some dicking around, but the seller is a slack bastard and never got her ready. (hear me, maddog?)

 

I think we'll try to pull her somewhere in April, after all the bills from key largo and key west have been successfully...umm...amortized.

 

Thanks for the tips. We don't have T-foils, and we'd probably buy a current I-14 rather than foil up the old one if we got that serious about it. I don't know whether that'll happen. I guess it depends on how much fun we have!

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Speaking of weight, you will be a fairly light combination. It shouldn't be a significant disadvantage if you have very good boat-handling skills, it'll just be a little frustrating until you acieve those skills. A crew with a combined of 140kg (310lb) came 11th in the recent Australian titles, they were very fast in all conditions but its taken them a while to get to that stage.

 

So anyway, thats my convoluted 0.02c thinking back over this topic, you have had the boat for a while now so how have things gone? or has winter beaten you to the sailing?

 

Unfortunately, the ice beat me to the lake. We tried to have her before thanksgiving so we could pull her to Lake Lanier and do some dicking around, but the seller is a slack bastard and never got her ready. (hear me, maddog?)

 

I think we'll try to pull her somewhere in April, after all the bills from key largo and key west have been successfully...umm...amortized.

 

Thanks for the tips. We don't have T-foils, and we'd probably buy a current I-14 rather than foil up the old one if we got that serious about it. I don't know whether that'll happen. I guess it depends on how much fun we have!

 

Ok 'Richard'! I have had that f-ing boat in my garage for the last 6 weeks, with my car in the f-ing driveway gathering ice every morning just so your new boat won't get wet and snowy! By the way, your storage fee is $1400! ;)

 

As far as weight goes, you would be better in the crew position with Mer concentrating (very hard) on driving. One tiny incorrect tiller movement (like when she's trying to steer and climb out at the same time, as stated above) and you two are meeting the water via the mast/sidesays/centerboard/etc... Tea bagging is always a fun thing to do also! With your fat ass (well a little less fat now :D ) out on the wire you will be going more than fast enough for tow people learning how to sail such a boat.

 

Here's a pic of your boat. Just a few touch ups left and she'll be ready to go.

post-7810-1137078745_thumb.jpg

 

PS; since I'm such a slack bastard, I'm not gettin shit all done a work. I'm pretty much completly in KWRW mode right now... Also, I talked to Scott on his way down to KW last night. Sounds like a great find! Thanks! :)

 

MadDog

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Mr Clean,

 

This is the first time I have seen this post. While coaching at Noroton YC in 1987, I drew an asymmetric rigged doublehander for juniors. My college roomate at the time was Jonathan Pudney, son of then World I-14 chairman Jeremy Pudney. Jeremy suggested I hook up with Jay Cross, the designer of the Cross 3 World Champ I-14 hull at the time.

 

Turns out Jay had done an asymmetric with a retractable pole pretty much as I had drawn. Together we refined the first retractable bowsprits ever. At the time, the I-14 class was dominated by the UK politicos, and were not going towards asymmetrics. That changed pretty quickly as I launched with the One Design 14 with two different rigs. The std rig was about Laser 2 sail area or a little more and aimed straight at the 420 market. It was used in the Bemis Trophy for 2-3 years under Jack Caldwell's forward looking Junior Champs committee (unusual for a US SAILING COmmittee).

 

The Grand Prix rig was a state of the art (at the time) Superspars alum I-14 rig. Sail area was max'd out, and we opted for a frac hoist asym to avoid the costs and complexity of the mh shrouds and spreaders. The GP rig took on a life of its own as soon as the Ziploc Ultimate Yacht Race adopted it. The list of characters that sailed the OD 14 GP in various regattas between 1989-1994 is a good read:

 

Mark Mendelblatt

Will Baylis

Steve Rosenberg

Chris Larson

Chris Dickson

Ed Baird

Kevin Burnham

Duncan and Neal MacDonald

Knut Frostad

Jack and Peter Dreyfuss

Cam Lewis

My much older bro, Stuart

Larry Tuttle

Russell Coutts

Bobby Wilmot

Crisp brothers from OZ

Morgan Larson

McKee brothers

Allison Jolly

Zach Leonard

Pete Alarie

Saffer bros

Charles Stanley (UK) sued a ferry at Corpus Christi and won...very American

Hans and Harry Melges

Kevin Mahaney

Paul Forester

Martin Bergstrom

Krister Bergstrom

Magnus Gravare

Christophe Auguin

JC Besnard

 

I spent a year trying to get the I-14 to endorse the OD14 as an olympic class bid to no avail. More on that later.

 

I started Johnstone One Design in late 1987 while still at Connecticut College. And kept at it through late 1990. Drove 180,000 miles in that time. Went through 4 Suburbans. Some success, some heartbreak, and learned everything needed to survive in the boat business. This was my grad school. I am still very grateful for the support of my old man, and for Jay Cross' faith in me. I guess my old man got a nice payback in the whole sprit-boat series for J-Boats, and at least one family member not asking for a job in the family business!

 

Seahorse Magazine ran an article years ago that gives the OD14 project huge credit for starting the asym craze and sportboat segment. While we did pioneer the first retractable bowsprits, I feel uncomfortable with this sort of credit. Julian Bethwaite opened my eyes to asyms at the 1981 Silhouette Vodka 18' skiff series in Newport. His PRIME skiff looked awesome. If it carried a third crew, he would have been untouchable. Watching that asym 18' is still burned in my memory.

 

Spencer is correct above in his recollections. The Saffers purchased the OD14 biz from me, and did a nice job. I think that if Marshall was not so bright, and hadn't gone off to med school, the OD14 might have had a longer run. The Saffers are really great people.

 

I took 6 months off to recover from burnout, then purchased Sunfish Laser out of bankruptcy in 1991. In July 1991, I presented Julian Bethwaite (he visited me to be sure the Laser 2 royalties would still be paid to his old man) the design parameters for a 2 person 18' skiff to be only 16'. Julian asked if he could design it. It tooks us a few years to get it going. He applied his learnings from the B-14, and I applied my learnings from the OD14. ALong the way, we picked up Dave Ovington and Takao Otani as equal partners in what became known as the 49er, named after my then favorite football team. I mention all this, as the both the OD14 and Julian's B-14 directly led to the 49er.

 

I always wonder what would have happened if the I-14 class had backed the OD14 as an Olympic bid before the Laser 5-tonner, Boss and others were created. Oh well, the current I-14's are awesome! I went for a quick sail a few weeks ago during the Orange Bowl with each of my children on Tracy and Ezra's new Beiker I-14. Great boat. Brought back a flood of great feelings.

 

I am absolutely amazed that these OD14's are still around and getting good use. Have fun with it. I hope all of this gives you an appreciation for the OD14s.

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What an awesome story! Great read... thank you for posting that.

 

I had my first I-14 ride recently, and am also hooked.

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The dickhead who I bought the boat from finally got around to cleaning it off. I picked it up yesterday, and I can't wait to go play.

 

 

 

rsr33o.jpg

rsr3io.jpg

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What are the size and weight ranges combined for these boats?

 

from 330 lb (~150 kg) thru 400 lb (~181 kg) is competive

 

Any mix between crew & driver. If there were a choice, might go bigger on the driver, but it doesn't seem to matter all that much

 

Fair enough, on the "competitive" part, but you can be a lot lighter and still go out and race and have fun. We have sometimes sailed with a combined crew weight of 265 lbs. Granted, we have a tough time getting the boat up from turtled position if it's blowing over 15 kts, but on the other hand we're double-trapping in 10kts. (Boat's a penultimate.)

 

Congrats, Mr. Clean!

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I'd love to get into I-14 racing, but there's none that I know of in LA. Also, I have zero exp in them. I'd need someone willing to show me the ropes.

 

anyone know of anybody looking for a body in LA area?

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The dickhead who I bought the boat from finally got around to cleaning it off. I picked it up yesterday, and I can't wait to go play.

 

From wife of dickhead:

 

I'm glad that he finally got around to cleaning it off and selling it too! Actually, Dog Eat Dog has been with us for a long time - even moved to Germany with us - treat her well! Gorgeous dogs in the picture!

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The dickhead who I bought the boat from finally got around to cleaning it off. I picked it up yesterday, and I can't wait to go play.

 

From wife of dickhead:

 

I'm glad that he finally got around to cleaning it off and selling it too! Actually, Dog Eat Dog has been with us for a long time - even moved to Germany with us - treat her well! Gorgeous dogs in the picture!

 

You know you're not allowed in here until we actually see you out on a boat. And I ain't seen that yet!

 

Say hi to the kids...

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Looks Nice Clean

 

Good Job!

 

Now lets go rent "wind" and learn how to sail the sucker!

 

Cheers Pal

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Looks Nice Clean

 

Good Job!

 

Now lets go rent "wind" and learn how to sail the sucker!

 

Cheers Pal

 

I think I already know enough to do what they did in that fucking movie. I need to learn how NOT to swim. Especially given the water temps for the next month.

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Looks Nice Clean

 

Good Job!

 

Now lets go rent "wind" and learn how to sail the sucker!

 

Cheers Pal

 

I think I already know enough to do what they did in that fucking movie. I need to learn how NOT to swim. Especially given the water temps for the next month.

 

So you know how to fly a 'Whomper"??? :blink: Acutally, I'd wonder about you if you did!

 

Also, Maddog's wife says: "talk to me when you've actually spent some time out on the wire, ya skiff newbie!" ;)

 

Bitch

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watch that foot on the retractor, looks really clean, nice.

s.

 

I should start a thread about getting )#@(&$*@@) willow tree sap off of the hull!

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You should have a blast Clean.

 

For a while I would be more concerned with staying warm after swimming than trying to avoid the drink. It is a pretty steep learning curve. But sort of li