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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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pacifichigh

ZAP 26

75 posts in this topic

I seem to recall that it was a Bruce King design. Late IOR/early Perf vintage. One of the earlier swept frac rigs with a decent sized main. Solid NW perf performer as I think about it. Fairly rare. Not a bad boat, just not very many. Choate 27 might be a better idea.

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One called Zap (owned by Rich Bush) in dry storage at Cabrillo Beach Yacht Club in San Pedro, CA. been sitting there for 9 years. I have not seen it sail in that time.

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One in the fleet of boats at Island Sailing Club in PDX. Fun Boat. Big ole cockpit.

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I remember brochures for this boat, the Bruce King part is right. From memory it looks a lot like a flush deck frac Evelyn 26, with a less plumb bow.

PHRF numbers from 132-145

I 30

J 10

P 34

E 11

Big rig for a little boat.Anyone got photos????

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There's one in Hood River that recently went up for sale.

 

One in Port Townsend sold a couple years ago and went somewhere else. Not sure where.

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One in the fleet of boats at Island Sailing Club in PDX. Fun Boat. Big ole cockpit.

 

Man that brings back memories. Buddy of mine worked at ISC ~20 years ago (holy crap!), some nice days spent "cruising" around on the river with the ZAP. Good times, to say the least.

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Hey! *almost* 20 years ago!

 

That was a pretty cool boat back then, still not bad for a comfortable performance daysailor. Of course that club boat had horrible sails on it, but it was the perfect platform to take out after work for fun sails.

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One in the fleet of boats at Island Sailing Club in PDX. Fun Boat. Big ole cockpit.

 

Man that brings back memories. Buddy of mine worked at ISC ~20 years ago (holy crap!), some nice days spent "cruising" around on the river with the ZAP. Good times, to say the least.

 

 

Talk about a blast from the past. I sailed that boat a bunch when I lived in PDX. The stories that boat could tell ;)

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There was a Zap 26 sitting in the drysail section of Southwestern YC a couple of years ago. For the age of the boat it had very clean lines, and a very small keel in relation to the size of the rig. The people with whom I spoke to about this boat said it was quite tender, and as such the owner hadn't sailed it in several years. Cool little boat!

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Anybody got a picture of one of these things? I remember the name, but can't place it.

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Early sportboat design. Cool little boat. Deadly fast in light air.

 

Had one major design flaw. Not enough bow floatation. Digs nose

off the wind in a blow. Flat aft sections mean that even all

weight on push pit didn't help all that much. Funny thing was

even when the thing was sailing itself under water it didn't

become uncontrollable to the degree you might think.

 

Wear a snorkel and enjoy.

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Anyone familiar with the ZAP 26? Sounds like only 11 of them were made. Thanks

Had one major design flaw. Not enough bow floatation. Digs nose

off the wind in a blow. Flat aft sections mean that even all

weight on push pit didn't help all that much.

Actually, there were two flaws - rudders had a tedency to break! Zap is on its third rudder.

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There was a Zap 26 sitting in the drysail section of Southwestern YC a couple of years ago. For the age of the boat it had very clean lines, and a very small keel in relation to the size of the rig. The people with whom I spoke to about this boat said it was quite tender, and as such the owner hadn't sailed it in several years. Cool little boat!

 

It's still sitting there rotting away. It's the boat that flipped while under spin off the point years ago. The keel was extended (like Busch's boat in L.A). Pretty cool boat for its time.

 

Both Busch's ZAP (Hull #1) and the one at SWYC have the std. keel as designed by Bruce King. There was another zap (blue hull I think) out of MDR(?) that cut the keel down in an ill advised attempt to get a better rating! Never did much...

 

Rig isn't swept back, uses runners to keep headstay tight.

 

Boats are a blast in heavy air - One sailed from Eagle rock to LA Light in under 1 hour back in '78

 

Boat looks like a blown up laser with a 40' stick on it.

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the short keeled blue boat from Del Rey is the white short keeled boat Chuck Queen had in Seattle. I re- gelcoated it and rebuilt the deck, then he bought it from me when I bought an Olson 30. It now sits getting dents in the hull in Oxnard. It is a fast boat.

I also owned the yellow one from Port Townsend. It was not a factory boat- was made with vinylester S glass over

balsa . As vinylester resin doesn't really love to bond to wood, well- I'd have made a PVC cored one myself as a boat builder. The boats are made so- so- strong deck, weaker foam core hull. They're really fun to sail- very tender though with a cut- off keel! Easy to win races with in PHRF here in So. Cal. Big huge cockpit, and if they had a plumb bow they'd be modern designs.

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There was one with 3 feet added to the stern by the original builder (he kept the boat as his own).

To my eye it is crying out for a longer boom......

post-207-1146155892_thumb.jpg

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Zap "29"

I have more info if interested.

It is for sale.

I have no association with the seller, but can put you in touch.

He is asking a bunch too much for it.

post-207-1146156021_thumb.jpg

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post-31674-1221063408_thumb.jpg

 

Hi, I just bought the ZAP 26 that was for sale at Hood River. Someone had bought it in 2006 and spent a lot of time cleaning it up, and replaced all the running rigging. He then left it at the dock for two years. I didn't pay much for it and I thought it might be fun to sail PHRF. The boat is in very good shape for its age, and I don't think its been used much.

 

Time will tell.

 

I included a picture of it. The 10hp (!) motor has been removed. It used to have a yellow stripe, but the previous owner painted the red & black stripes. He didn't sand before painting the new stripes, so I think we'll have the yellow stripes back after 3 or 4 sails.

 

There is another named "Angry Hillbillies" in Ventura that is doing well.

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Nice - congrats.

 

Does anyone else think that hull/foil form looks very J-esque? Especially the keel.

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Was thinking the same thing, love the deck, get some more pics please

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There was one with 3 feet added to the stern by the original builder (he kept the boat as his own).

To my eye it is crying out for a longer boom......

There is a yellow version much like this (29') in the Tacoma area. It raced in the Vashon Challenge mid August.

2 people & a dog. Boat sailed very well up Colvos.

I believe it was called "Paella) rated 124.

Loc

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Jeebus. That boom sure looks high! (?)

 

It does look like a J. I have a J24 so I made some comparisons. The keel is almost 2ft longer and an inch thinner. The rudder is 1ft longer and its balanced. The hull is much flatter, and fatter at the aft. The entry is sharper. THe mast is deck stepped, so I don't have the rainwater issues like the J24.

 

Not sure we'll miss the front hatch either, but it isn't a OD, so we can do what we like with it. There was a boat designer working in the yard were I was doing the bottom and he gave me an idea for a tube launcher for the spinnaker where the hatch would be. If we can't cabin douse, we'll take a look at that.

 

We all had a long talk about the boom height, and the guy in ventura sailing his says it isn't hurting anything. Judging by the thickness of the spar, and the running backstays, I'm thinking that mast is going to snap the first time we get wind above 20knts, so we'll make any changes we need then.

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Raced Rich Bushe's a couple times in the 80's.

Great boat, even better owner!, fairly quick upwind and fast in a breeze downwind for that vintage.

Rated @ 150 phrf.

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There is a yellow version much like this (29') in the Tacoma area. It raced in the Vashon Challenge mid August.

2 people & a dog. Boat sailed very well up Colvos.

I believe it was called "Paella) rated 124.

Loc

Tacoma now? That boat was at Lake Mead for years until it sold a couple years ago. It is indeed called Paella, modified ZAP 29.

 

We could beat it boat for boat in our J/24 sometimes, and routinely corrected over it. It always seemed to have too much heel.

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post-31674-1221063408_thumb.jpg

 

Hi, I just bought the ZAP 26 that was for sale at Hood River. Someone had bought it in 2006 and spent a lot of time cleaning it up, and replaced all the running rigging. He then left it at the dock for two years. I didn't pay much for it and I thought it might be fun to sail PHRF. The boat is in very good shape for its age, and I don't think its been used much.

 

Time will tell.

 

I included a picture of it. The 10hp (!) motor has been removed. It used to have a yellow stripe, but the previous owner painted the red & black stripes. He didn't sand before painting the new stripes, so I think we'll have the yellow stripes back after 3 or 4 sails.

 

There is another named "Angry Hillbillies" in Ventura that is doing well.

 

Kul lookin' boat. Looks like a giant mo-fo'in J/24. Where ya gonna race it ? Looks like a blast

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Congrats. See the one in PDX everytime we head out of the slip, fun times...

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J24Soup- This is that boat that was across from you in PDX. The Island sailing club still has one too. It had 5 ft of weeds growing on the motor, so I'm assuming it hadn't left the dock in a while.

 

I've got it in the ship canal in Seattle until I get a dry space at Shilshole. We'll try and get out for foulweather bluff and the Frostbite series, but it really needs sails and the budget is low at this moment. We'll definately do the Sloop Monday nights next year, and I might as well do a few duck dodges as long as I'm on the wrong side of the locks.

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J24Soup- This is that boat that was across from you in PDX. The Island sailing club still has one too. It had 5 ft of weeds growing on the motor, so I'm assuming it hadn't left the dock in a while.

 

I've got it in the ship canal in Seattle until I get a dry space at Shilshole. We'll try and get out for foulweather bluff and the Frostbite series, but it really needs sails and the budget is low at this moment. We'll definately do the Sloop Monday nights next year, and I might as well do a few duck dodges as long as I'm on the wrong side of the locks.

 

The Zap at ISC is not an easy boat to sail short-handed, and needs a good crew of sailors to race her. One of the previous instructors at ISC used to put together a crew from the ISC membership and race the boat as "Star." I think there might be insurance reasons why the Zap isn't being raced these days. ISC needs to find another instructor with sailboat racing in his/her blood.

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Tacoma now? That boat was at Lake Mead for years until it sold a couple years ago. It is indeed called Paella, modified ZAP 29.

 

We could beat it boat for boat in our J/24 sometimes, and routinely corrected over it. It always seemed to have too much heel.

 

They did struggle when the wind picked up later in Colvos. Quite fast when the wind was under 8kn.

The early part of the race was a drifter, & they led for quite a while (against Tripp 40, J-35's, J-37, ect)

Loc

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I'm the current owner of Paella. She is a tender boat but not so much you fear for your life or the boat. We've been knocked down hard with 500# of man meat draggin ass on the lowside hanging on the shrouds. She popped right back up. I have no worries.

It was mentioned the stick seem flimsy. I dont get it unless Paella has a different stick. She's bendy but strong. The rudder issue was cured when the boat was added onto.

As far as light wind she is a killer. If you stay focused it makes its own wind and will sail right past boats that should be far in front of us. I've found as the wind picks up reducing sail area fast and keeping her from too much heel will keep your speed right where it needs to be. She doesnt necessarily benefit much from more rail meat. It seems, keep her light and reduce sail area. If I were to buy another suit of sails I would go an even larger main than my oversized main and a 100 jib on a furler for single and doublehanding. Paella is for sale now.

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I definitely do not want to see the pics of "500 lbs of man meat", before anyone chimes in with "pics or...."

Then only time we hang man meat over the side is off the transom, and one at a time.

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I realize that this is an old post. However, I have a personal connection to this/these boats.

I am the son of the builder of the zap 26/29. I know the story how the zap 26 became a zap29, I know where it was built, and all the back story. It was a Bruce King design and Bruce himself inspected the build out process. I have many memories of high wind racing on lake mead and can say that the most important position of sailing her in high winds is the helmsman! I have personally experienced 10+knots on Paella on a reach an she has exceeded that when the boat was campaigning on the southern California coast.

It is a very fun boat to sail. I have many wonderful memories!

If you have any questions please ask I can get them answered. The builder, my dad, is available to get answers.

Hugh

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1222378412[/url]' post='1901943']

I'm the current owner of Paella. She is a tender boat but not so much you fear for your life or the boat. We've been knocked down hard with 500# of man meat draggin ass on the lowside hanging on the shrouds. She popped right back up. I have no worries.

It was mentioned the stick seem flimsy. I dont get it unless Paella has a different stick. She's bendy but strong. The rudder issue was cured when the boat was added onto.

As far as light wind she is a killer. If you stay focused it makes its own wind and will sail right past boats that should be far in front of us. I've found as the wind picks up reducing sail area fast and keeping her from too much heel will keep your speed right where it needs to be. She doesnt necessarily benefit much from more rail meat. It seems, keep her light and reduce sail area. If I were to buy another suit of sails I would go an even larger main than my oversized main and a 100 jib on a furler for single and doublehanding. Paella is for sale now.

 

Do you still own her?

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Jeebus. That boom sure looks high! (?)

 

 

Was the norm back in the day.

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Back in the day, I capsized the damn thing like a giant Laser!! In 'Dago of all places! A squall came out of the south as we were coming back in from racing out in the ocean and with the spin up knocked us over. Noboday paniced and we just looked at each other with bewilderment on our faces. 3 of us were on the keel and Les Bartlett was on the rudder while his wife was hanging on the coaming in the cockpit. Popped her back up and pulled on the strings and took off! Dropped the kite and still under full main we were doing 10 knots!!

 

Just another chapter in my Mexican adventure book!! Circa '83

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I got one and it sails like a machine.

 

It was so fast in MORC that they changed the rule and killed the boat. Morc must have been run by some designers that wanted to sell their boats or some owners that wanted to win with their own boats.

 

No matter, the boat well sailed has taken a hit in it's PHRF ratting. We'll see later if it can be sailed to.

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I'm the current owner of Paella. ...If you stay focused it makes its own wind and will sail right past boats that should be far in front of us.

 

Holy crap, that's a boat name I haven't heard in a million years. I remember (probably early 80s) doing a race from LA to Newport or some such thing. I was on a 3/4-tonner doing well boat-for-boat out the gate, when we made the corner and the wind came aft Paella chewed us up and passed us (to leeward! The indignity!) as if we were standing still. Somewhere around here I've got a couple of photos of her abeam and boogeying.

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post-31674-1221063408_thumb.jpg

 

Hi, I just bought the ZAP 26 that was for sale at Hood River. Someone had bought it in 2006 and spent a lot of time cleaning it up, and replaced all the running rigging. He then left it at the dock for two years. I didn't pay much for it and I thought it might be fun to sail PHRF. The boat is in very good shape for its age, and I don't think its been used much.

 

Time will tell.

 

I included a picture of it. The 10hp (!) motor has been removed. It used to have a yellow stripe, but the previous owner painted the red & black stripes. He didn't sand before painting the new stripes, so I think we'll have the yellow stripes back after 3 or 4 sails.

 

There is another named "Angry Hillbillies" in Ventura that is doing well.

Years ago took it out on the columbia, spin luff kept collasping, boat was popping on a plane but didnt feel like it, figuered the app. wind,trim and driving fairly fast. Had a huge mast section really hurt performance. It was really a breaktru boat.

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Hey HLWinesett: Do you know the official word on how many were built? I have ZAP in Seattle and we're told it is hull #2 and Bruce Hedrick bought it new from you guys in 1978. We suffer in the PHRF but that may be more due to our sailing vs. the boat.

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Great to get some info on what looks to be a very cool boat. I bought "Insanity" which was in SF (moved the boat to NY using uship ~ cool service) and unfortunately haven't put the boat in the water yet, but getting there (Think this is the start of the third winter). Problem is extensive wet deck core and some miscellaneous de-lam in the cockpit. I did have the boat surveyed professionally (?) and was told deck more or less dry with some limited de-lam near port chain plate (possibly due to moisture . My first step on board was greeted with a horrifying cracking sound in the sole. Total delamination. A couple of test holes showed not water, but dry core with spots of partially uncured resin (somewhat tacky and very smelly).

 

Editorial tangent: I really do not understand how I, a complete amateur, was able to in 30 seconds, to identify a major structural defect that was completely missed by someone professing to earn a living by being an expert in this area? In order to save others from going down the path I'm currently on, i.e. deciding to accept the write-off of boat in need of a ton more repair that what was anticipated, or embarking on a painful/long extensive restoration project, here is the name of the surveyor I used., http://www.baymarine...esurvey.com. I had a local fiberglasser come take a look ~ after about 5 minutes he said, "the deck is completely soaked, If you bring the boat into my shop it'll be $10K. But my advice to you is to get out the chain saw and move on." This was the first time I've used a surveyor so I have no idea if my expectation are in line with what happens in the industry but just providing the factual context is case my experience with baymarinesurvey.com is useful. If I were to do it again I'd probably have a technician take a look rather than a surveyor. (For example I took the sails to my sailmaker, that we supposedly worth the purchase price of the boat, at pointed out they were in pretty rough shape, older laminate sails starting to delaminate).

 

 

After taking a closer look at the rest of the deck, found out it was probably 45% was knocking dead/wet/delamed. Have finally finished replacing cores/skins/glass as "necessary." Fairing and painting this winter.

 

Anyway, Newbie, how do you like sailing her? What PHRF do you have? I was rated at 144. I am debating spin or non spin division and thinking non spin b/c sometimes I'm stuck with less crew than I'd like? But have to imagine d/w without spin would not be optimal, boat looks make for d/w surfing with big flat wide runs aft? no?

 

Some photo of progress. Also reshaping the rudder as it was rigged for a wind vane auto pilot, dog was curious about the templates I made

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Skins on the port chain plate photo were the first ones I did ~ poorly done and had to grind them all off :(

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Great to get some info on what looks to be a very cool boat. I bought "Insanity" which was in SF (moved the boat to NY using uship ~ cool service) and unfortunately haven't put the boat in the water yet, but getting there (Think this is the start of the third winter). Problem is extensive wet deck core and some miscellaneous de-lam in the cockpit. I did have the boat surveyed professionally (?) and was told deck more or less dry with some limited de-lam near port chain plate (possibly due to moisture . My first step on board was greeted with a horrifying cracking sound in the sole. Total delamination. A couple of test holes showed not water, but dry core with spots of partially uncured resin (somewhat tacky and very smelly).

 

Editorial tangent: I really do not understand how I, a complete amateur, was able to in 30 seconds, to identify a major structural defect that was completely missed by someone professing to earn a living by being an expert in this area? In order to save others from going down the path I'm currently on, i.e. deciding to accept the write-off of boat in need of a ton more repair that what was anticipated, or embarking on a painful/long extensive restoration project, here is the name of the surveyor I used., http://www.baymarine...esurvey.com. I had a local fiberglasser come take a look ~ after about 5 minutes he said, "the deck is completely soaked, If you bring the boat into my shop it'll be $10K. But my advice to you is to get out the chain saw and move on." This was the first time I've used a surveyor so I have no idea if my expectation are in line with what happens in the industry but just providing the factual context is case my experience with baymarinesurvey.com is useful. If I were to do it again I'd probably have a technician take a look rather than a surveyor. (For example I took the sails to my sailmaker, that we supposedly worth the purchase price of the boat, at pointed out they were in pretty rough shape, older laminate sails starting to delaminate).

 

 

After taking a closer look at the rest of the deck, found out it was probably 45% was knocking dead/wet/delamed. Have finally finished replacing cores/skins/glass as "necessary." Fairing and painting this winter.

 

Anyway, Newbie, how do you like sailing her? What PHRF do you have? I was rated at 144. I am debating spin or non spin division and thinking non spin b/c sometimes I'm stuck with less crew than I'd like? But have to imagine d/w without spin would not be optimal, boat looks make for d/w surfing with big flat wide runs aft? no?

 

Some photo of progress. Also reshaping the rudder as it was rigged for a wind vane auto pilot, dog was curious about the templates I made

post-67330-0-86702100-1352742021_thumb.jpg

post-67330-0-71837700-1352742022_thumb.jpg

post-67330-0-23554500-1352742023_thumb.jpg

post-67330-0-54442200-1352742075_thumb.jpg

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What do you think of the crack between the transom and the deck? There are no mechanical fasteners holding the deck to the transom, just a lap joint.

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Almost ready to launch. I put a hard abltive paint on and need to keep the boat inthe water so I can use it. Anyone who know me knows why.

 

Trude 002.JPG

 

We'll soon be sailing and I am looking forward to racing with the local community instead of the few times a year with disabled crowd.

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great to hear Dawg!

 

The hull has been buffed and the boat is in the slings as I write. Tomorrow, I'll sand the bottom of the keel, about 2" wide * 24" long, paint it and Monday.......Splash.

 

The boat was formerly named the "Angry Hillbillies" though the name was never inscribed on the hull. I'm not sure if I need a renaming ceremony but I am not taking chances. At some point before the first race we will have a few hours of druken debaurchy, a coin of value under the mast and rename the boat as perscribed by Nautical Tradition....rum will also be available to those in attendance.

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great to hear Dawg!

 

The hull has been buffed and the boat is in the slings as I write. Tomorrow, I'll sand the bottom of the keel, about 2" wide * 24" long, paint it and Monday.......Splash.

 

The boat was formerly named the "Angry Hillbillies" though the name was never inscribed on the hull. I'm not sure if I need a renaming ceremony but I am not taking chances. At some point before the first race we will have a few hours of druken debaurchy, a coin of value under the mast and rename the boat as perscribed by Nautical Tradition....rum will also be available to those in attendance.

and the name is going to be?????????

always a safe bet to follow function, especially if the function requires rum.

 

I suppose "Fuck the Chair" isn't going to be the name?

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I suppose "Fuck the Chair" isn't going to be the name?

 

Not telling yet.

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I met with a sailmaker this weekend, he wanted to know what jib do people sail there zaps with. We are in Western Long Sound where where summer is light, distribution maybe something like this.

 

5-10 ~40%

10-15 ~40%

15-20 ~20%

 

Thinking a 155 would be good up to 18 knots maybe?

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A light 155% sheeted inside and a heavy 150% sheeted to the rail when it gets choppy.

 

We used to sail an Olson 30 like that. Moore 24's worked well in that fashion too.

 

It's all up to you and your ability.

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1800$ for the zap hull that needs lots of work????? More than the salvage keel value. What's up?

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A light 155% sheeted inside and a heavy 150% sheeted to the rail when it gets choppy.

 

We used to sail an Olson 30 like that. Moore 24's worked well in that fashion too.

 

It's all up to you and your ability.

Dawg, you must have had some awesome ability to be sailing an Olson 30 in 18knots with the 155 Genoa (sheeted to the rail or wherever). We just go sideways on ours in 18-20 even with the 5 fattest friends that I know...

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1800$ for the zap hull that needs lots of work????? More than the salvage keel value. What's up?

 

they just want to bargin with you.....SOP

 

 

A light 155% sheeted inside and a heavy 150% sheeted to the rail when it gets choppy.

 

We used to sail an Olson 30 like that. Moore 24's worked well in that fashion too.

 

It's all up to you and your ability.

Dawg, you must have had some awesome ability to be sailing an Olson 30 in 18knots with the 155 Genoa (sheeted to the rail or wherever). We just go sideways on ours in 18-20 even with the 5 fattest friends that I know...

My bad, I glazed over the 18knt part. DOUH

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1800$ for the zap hull that needs lots of work????? More than the salvage keel value. What's up?

 

they just want to bargin with you.....SOP

 

 

A light 155% sheeted inside and a heavy 150% sheeted to the rail when it gets choppy.

 

We used to sail an Olson 30 like that. Moore 24's worked well in that fashion too.

 

It's all up to you and your ability.

Dawg, you must have had some awesome ability to be sailing an Olson 30 in 18knots with the 155 Genoa (sheeted to the rail or wherever). We just go sideways on ours in 18-20 even with the 5 fattest friends that I know...

My bad, I glazed over the 18knt part. DOUH

 

Wish it had been $1800. Live and learn

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I have been absent lately but I must let you know.

See that big Rig

 

p9080001.JPG

 

It came tumbling down this weekend.

 

a friend will post a photo of us motoring in with a mess on deck.

 

Prior to the (what do you call this tyoe of incident), the boat performed very well and I was very happy, though a little beat.

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So bummed to see you motoring in. Looks like the boat was going good early in the race.

When you need any help call me.

post-13527-0-22548300-1361689314_thumb.jpg

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bummer.....didn't know you guys dropped the rig until I saw the post. Glad everyone made it back safe. We blew out a panel on our A2 on our jibe into Mandalay and ended up sailing in jib and main for 1/2 of the leg due to limited crew. We were launched though at the time with a max speed of 18 knots

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Funny thing is, in the photo with the boat on the trailer the rig looks sooooooo BIg. And even when the boat is in the water it looks big.

 

But with the rig on the dock and everything put away, it seems rather small.

 

Funny how perspective's change.

 

I'll be on the phone next week looking into options.

 

If anyone knows any rich folks that have top sections of carbon rigs or some used Melges 24, 30 or 32 rigs they want tooooo get rid of, give them my email. dave@webbdawg.com

 

Muchas Gracias

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The City of Ventura used to have one in it's training fleet. It was a little overpowered for a training boat. We did a couple of Wet Wednesdays with it and a heavy crew and did OK in moderate wind. We were all newbies so I'm sure we didn't sail the boat to it's potential.

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The city of VTA ha one what? in it's fleet. and how is this relevant to the conversation?

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A couple of things here, 99% where Dawg is concerned, but might be of interest to others with these boats.

 

I'm an internet badass, have zero typing skills, and what I type for those that know me can assure you I'll say in person. That said, I'll at least ask before the cannons are lit. I'll also be pretty honest about what I know and don't know. Dawg, I'm in you're backyard, so be carefull here on this one, as will I...

 

Or, you're welcome to come out to Fillmore for a beer and the bullshit, any time. Bring Tex with you for some real entertainment. :)

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The city of VTA ha one what? in it's fleet. and how is this relevant to the conversation?

I was just giving my experience on the boat. The boat isn't the training fleet anymore. It was fun to sail, but I think it was a bad choice for a training boat.

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