• Announcements

    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

sirstopher

Genoa Sheets

63 posts in this topic

We are getting ready for the start of our Spring Series, and some thing that has always bothered me is that we tie on the sheets to the clew of the Genoa using a bowline knot on each sheet. Each sail has a set of sheets and are ready to go if we need to change out the sails. I am not talking about the Bigger boats, but the sailboats from 20 to 28 ft. long. Is there a product that attaches to the ends of the lines to the clew that will not make the bowlines catch on the stays. I know, I Know get a book and learn how to splice them on the sails.

 

What would be your next suggestion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use J-Clips... 32 foot boat. They are great...

If you don't need to change your sheets, why not put a loop halfway along the sheet, pass the loop through the clew, and pass both ends through this loop, and pull tight.... something you might do on a dinghy, but should be an easy way to do this, assuming loads aren't that high....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We are getting ready for the start of our Spring Series, and some thing that has always bothered me is that we tie on the sheets to the clew of the Genoa using a bowline knot on each sheet. Each sail has a set of sheets and are ready to go if we need to change out the sails. I am not talking about the Bigger boats, but the sailboats from 20 to 28 ft. long. Is there a product that attaches to the ends of the lines to the clew that will not make the bowlines catch on the stays. I know, I Know get a book and learn how to splice them on the sails.

 

What would be your next suggestion.

 

One set of sheets with J locks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Already Emailed Him on this

 

I'll just wait for S Brennan to come in tooting his own horn, i wonder how long it is going to take?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

on my small boat I just doubled them, push the loop through the clew and then the line through that loop whatever thats called. I had sheets for every headsail..all two of them. Your sheets might be a little short for that. Smaller knot though but the fuckers will still get caught till you die.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have done this in the past also, The knot or LOOP this is put into the sheet still get caught on the frig'n stays and anything else in the way. To add to this, It is almost impossible to take the lines off of the sail if you need to in a hurry, and the loop loads up after time. I am sure that this limits the max load on the line.

 

on my small boat I just doubled them, push the loop through the clew and then the line through that loop whatever thats called. I had sheets for every headsail..all two of them. Your sheets might be a little short for that. Smaller knot though but the fuckers will still get caught till you die.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

damb things get caught on our boat too...46 footer...what do you do for bigger boat???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just did a search for "J hooks" all I found was some structural stuff for builing, and something related to Hockey. Can someone provide a link.

 

BTW Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might be time for all of us to put our heads together on this problem also. I small device that fits threw the clew on both sides and secures the line ends tight and out of the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just did a search for "J hooks" all I found was some structural stuff for builing, and something related to Hockey. Can someone provide a link.

 

BTW Thanks.

 

 

You can go to the Tylaska website or

from APS most of the way down the page.

 

Will Museler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clean up the area (boat prep) where the sheets travel, tape up, tie off, cover over, anything that the sheet might catch on.

 

And tie closer bowlines!

 

Lazy gits. B)

 

 

BTW, pointy end types hate flogging metal weapons and often find friendlier foredecks to inhabit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

equiplite rope schackles work great for attatching jib sheets. a little pricey though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, you could have your foredeck person take the lazy sheet in hand and tractor it around the shrouds during your tack. It means that they have to step forward of the mast, which might not be a good thing depending upon how sensitive your boat is to a little weight forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BTW, pointy end types hate flogging metal weapons and often find friendlier foredecks to inhabit.

 

 

Yes, yes we do. It only takes one time of getting hit in the head with one of those things to hate them forever. On a boat your size I wouldn't go to metal shackles. They're really convenient for attaching and reattaching sails, but not worth it for a smaller boat. They'll also scratch up your mast pretty good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW, pointy end types hate flogging metal weapons and often find friendlier foredecks to inhabit.

Yes, yes we do. It only takes one time of getting hit in the head with one of those things to hate them forever. On a boat your size I wouldn't go to metal shackles. They're really convenient for attaching and reattaching sails, but not worth it for a smaller boat. They'll also scratch up your mast pretty good.

This is true! And if you have a forward hatch, it'll scratch the begeezus out of it and take out pieces. They'll also tear up the deck and add extra wear on the turnbuckles.

 

I haven't raced on a boat under 40' that "needed" a shackle. Anyway, what's your bow person think? I bet they tie nifty knots, or if not, lotsa knots. B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I bet they tie nifty knots, or if not, lotsa knots. B)

 

If you can't tie 1 good one, tie 17 lousy ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of those shackles are expensive and heavy. We just double back the sheets and tie a Larks Head at the clew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thumb knot on a bite .We use to use this on the FD .Also used on big boats .Its light and wont take ya head off and is quick. Look it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had my most recent #1 built with the t-ring, and I like it. Tacks cleanly, and hardly more weight than a clew ring. I'll be using them for other headsails as they come up for replacement. But for now, the sail with the t-ring uses tapered and eyespliced sheets and the others just get bowlines, which means I need to change out the sheets for a headsail change. If I wasn't so cheap, or thought the other sails were worth it, I'd swap the old sails' clew rings out, too.

 

This is on a 30' boat, and the sailmaker added $90 bucks to cover the cost and installation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that I think of it, you can´t detach only one sheet with the T-ring. How would you change the headsail? You'd need a couple of spare sheets

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok On the drawing I did, #1 you wount have to take the sail to a sailmaker to install the hardware. It should be fast and simple. I am just trying to throw out some ideas here. I use a bowline now, I do have everythig taped, and clear. But it always seems at the worst time in a race that the sheet will get caught on somthing. I think the worst is the old Butt Cleat. I do think that this could be made in Metal because it will be in the location of where the clew ring is aready installed. I do have a 130% genoa that doesn't even have a clew ring, It has strapping at the clew to tie onto.

 

BTW Do you know Curt from Pirates

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now that I think of it, you can´t detach only one sheet with the T-ring. How would you change the headsail? You'd need a couple of spare sheets

If you think of the little loop as disposable (I make up a few each year from old bits of line), then you need one extra changing sheet. Tie it directly to the ring, and take up the load, and then cut the little loop. Attach the good sheets to the new sail clew and you're set. Their website talks about this, too. I do mostly buoy racing, so headsail peels are only a couple a year on the odd distance race we might do.

 

 

 

Ok On the drawing I did, #1 you wount have to take the sail to a sailmaker to install the hardware. It should be fast and simple. I am just trying to throw out some ideas here.

Imagine the sheet pulling hard on the center of your clew barb- it will rotate and pull the ring sideways, out of the plane of the sail. If it's a pressed ring, you're screwed. If webbed, only a little less screwed. The extra loop of string over both sides of the barb balances the load.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The boat is only 20-28 feet people. There's no way any fitting is going to catch on your shrouds less than a continuous sheet. If it's a real issue you can strip the cover in that area to reduce weight and bulk.

 

Plus, there are numerous things the trimmer can do to ensure the headsail clew doesn't get caught on anything. Also, the bow can easily help as well if the trimmer can't wrap his/her head around it.

 

Learn to sail the boat this way, save some money, save the weight and go fast - win prizes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FUCKING HORRIBLE! Don't ever show those here again!

 

Knew someone who used them on kite sheets and braces and I've never seen so many flogging clews and tacks. They just don't hold.

 

Try the Tylaska spool shackles

 

http://www.tylaska.com/spool.htm

 

Excellent stuff, they make similar things for halyards too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about these?

 

29110200.jpg

What are those?

They look like robot nipple rings!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Clean up the area (boat prep) where the sheets travel, tape up, tie off, cover over, anything that the sheet might catch on.

 

And tie closer bowlines!

 

Lazy gits. B)

 

 

BTW, pointy end types hate flogging metal weapons and often find friendlier foredecks to inhabit.

 

What he said!

 

Keep working on the knots - better than any mechanical device as they will never fatigue or fail (unless the line itself does) and do not become lethal projectiles for us aforementioned pointy end types :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep it simple... bowline only... tight knots with enough tail to see that everything's OK. Be careful with the tails... had a bowman friend lose most of the vision in his right eye with a 4" tail while helping the sail around the baby stay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what about equpilites? thats what im thinking of using on the 109.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that this is the best option yet, the larks head knot that is usally used is a pain in the ass to get off the clew if your in a hurry. This seems to be a good choice besides the Bowline. Where do you race your Capri 25?

 

 

Try the Tylaska spool shackles

http://www.tylaska.com/spool.htm

 

I use Tylaska spool shackles on my Capri 25 and they work great. They're easy to change and almost never hang up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tight bowlines with short tails. Get all of the slack out of the lazy sheet and the new winch loaded up before the tack. Bow dude needs to keep an eye on it through the tack. Trimmer needs to look forward and pay attention

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your search - equpilites - did not match any documents.

 

Suggestions:

Make sure all words are spelled correctly.

Try different keywords.

Try more general keywords.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... schit guys, here I am telling you about my latest and greatest idea called that knot boot again and nobody's listening... :)

 

I came up with an idea of using a rubber or plastic cone shaped boot that slides onto your line and when you tie a knot, you can slide it over the knot. It keeps the knot from hanging up on schit. There needs to be several sizes for various size lines because different size lines make for different size knots.

 

All I need is someone who can make a million of the things so we can get them on the shelves...

I was hoping that New England Ropes or someone would help me out in this...

 

Are you guys here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i hate my spool shackles. they take forever to redo if you're changing the side for the spinnaker set, especially on cold winter days. i think retying bowlines would be faster.

 

the j-locks are pretty sweet, but very expensive and hard on the head.

 

the t-ring looks pretty cool for my next jib, i'll keep tying bowlins in the mean time. and cheap metal shackles for the spin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

S,

Annapolis Performance Sailing carries equiplites, they are seriously expensive.

 

Boatschit,

Try some of the rubber boots that are made for large mueller clips. I have a few sitting on my desk that would easiliy slip over 10mm line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

for those who just say tie bowlines - how do you consistently line up a bowline with marks in the cockpit for preset trimming?

 

equiplites...

 

 

 

equiplite_400.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what about equpilites? thats what im thinking of using on the 109.

Equiplite's rock. There's a Mumm 30 here that uses them to attach jib sheets and after about one more time of getting nailed by those fucking metal Tylaska shackles on a tack, I'm going to cut them off and toss them overboard. We use the Equiplites for jib and main halyard shackles on our boat currently, and we are going to do jib sheets with them and maybe spin sheets, jury's still out on that one since there's no quick release feature to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
S,

Annapolis Performance Sailing carries equiplites, they are seriously expensive.

Hall Spars sells them as well, no idea of the price difference if there is one. I was looking at Tylaska pricing a couple weeks ago for shackles and I didn't think there was too much difference between them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

chris, you can tie the bowlines so that they don't catch, you just have to tie them in the right 'direction' so that the tail isn't pointed in towards the stays. It isn't perfect but it works. On your boat I like to use continuous sheets with just useing the middle at the sail. works very well. let me know if you need help. I don't like using anything in the way of a clip b/c if you don't get hit in the head, it will break or come loose, not to mension the wieght on the clue in light air. Simple is best.

 

Justin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
for those who just say tie bowlines - how do you consistently line up a bowline with marks in the cockpit for preset trimming?

 

equiplites...

equiplite_400.jpg

If it's my bow? I double palm it and tie. If I'm a trimmer, I can see what you are saying about the marks though as a trimmer, they are sort of basic guides but different winds, shear, waves, etc, will always change my trim outside of those marks.

 

On a few boats I have made a large black marker ring around the sheet on either end and always kept that at the steel ring in the clew to make sure the trimmer can work with marks.

 

Shackles on spins is no problem. Shackles on jibs?!? Not so much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget Layline Loop Locks a little less pricy

 

Loop Locks

 

Similar concept to the Equiplite.

 

Thanatos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FUCKING HORRIBLE! Don't ever show those here again!

 

Knew someone who used them on kite sheets and braces and I've never seen so many flogging clews and tacks. They just don't hold.

 

Try the Tylaska spool shackles

 

http://www.tylaska.com/spool.htm

 

Excellent stuff, they make similar things for halyards too.

 

I use spool shackles and am happy with them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't forget Layline Loop Locks a little less pricy

 

Loop Locks

 

Similar concept to the Equiplite.

 

Thanatos

 

they look nice - KISS

 

anyone else used them on a 40 footer?

 

 

J

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget Layline Loop Locks a little less pricy

 

Loop Locks

 

Similar concept to the Equiplite.

 

Thanatos

 

they look nice - KISS

 

anyone else used them on a 40 footer?

 

 

J

 

On a 30' or less boat, I'd go with the continuous jibsheet-stripped, if you can afford it. Otherwise, tight bowlines or larks head knots are great. As a former pointie and current jib trimmer, I echo the folks calling for better control from the back of the boat--makes sense.

 

On the Syd38, we use the J-locks on our little hankie of a jib. Works great, but there's no flogging to speak of. Ever.

 

My 2p

 

JJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

equiplites are probably the least snaggy. Yes, sometimes bowlines snag. We use bowlines (one for each sheet) because they don't hurt as bad as hardware, are inexpensive (free), and don't fall overboard when you need them. Stopped using single sheets in favor of split sheets. Makes it easier for sail changes and safer if you need to untangle a mess....never know when you'll need to get the lines off (although the big knife works in an emergency).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Make a strop from Amsteel or the like. Ring hitch the sheet to one end. The other uses a Tylaska Spool Shackle. Simple, neat, light and strong.

 

SoK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're going to use a knot then the Buntline hitch.

 

Heaps better than a bowline, strength is maintained and the knot won't come undone, its also smaller.

 

I now use it for all knots where I used to use a bowline.

 

On the jib halyard where its used to tie the spectra to a spring shackle the knot has almost bonded into itself from the pressure. Probably only way to undo is to cut. On 8mm jib sheets its not a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone using dyneema "loop-shackles"?

 

All you need is a small string with an eyesplice in one end, and a "ball" in the other. The ball should fit through the eye, and when the loop loads up, the splice tightens and the eye is pulled tight around the rope; ball doesn't fit through anymore...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is not your knot, its your shrouds. What you need is to put a simple peice of PVC tubing over your shrouds. The tubing should be relativley small diamtere...3/4" and about 3 feet long, so they just sit at the bottom of the shroud where the knot catches. The bigger diameter, will mean the knot cannot catch....it also helps protect your sails, and if you do it right, it they look pretty good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The best wat to tie that knot is.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Drunk as a Scunk.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Learn to splice your jibsheets, then use a dutch shackle. No metal, quick and easy to undo if you want to change it, won't come loose when the clew flogs. Seizing would probably work in place of a splice, but splicing is so much neater.

 

Combine this with a length of PVC on your forward shroud...

 

Sheets will still hang up, but no where near the same extent.

 

We've used this on our 28 footer for about 3 months now. Works great.

post-6827-1141936584_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
on my small boat I just doubled them, push the loop through the clew and then the line through that loop whatever thats called. I had sheets for every headsail..all two of them. Your sheets might be a little short for that. Smaller knot though but the fuckers will still get caught till you die.

 

 

Larks Head

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have used T-Rings on all headsails on my 36 footer for the last 8 months.

 

Work extremely well as they are easy to set up. The clew "cover" stops any damage to the mast when tacking, and nothing to get caught in rigging.

Headsail peels are simple, just use 1 dynema loop per sheet. Attach the port sheet first (if using the port Headsail foil track) then starboard sheet. When peeling sailing on starboard tack, simply undo the clew cover, remove the starboard (lazy) sheet, attach it to new headsail going up in port headsail foil groove, close clew cover. Tack. Drop old headsail detatch port sheet, attach it to new headsail. Done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites