TimClark

newbie bowman tips

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Allegedly did end up in the shower with the owners girlfriend after an offshore..... but no pics, so it DIDN'T happen! Not that way inclined!!! The rest of our crew didn't agree - they wanted the video!!!

 

So need to find some other boat with nice young boys to break in......

 

No need... the older boys will happily oblige, too.

 

 

I'll look forwards to that! Videos were in fantasy land's minds - I hope. Break in, I'll leave to your imaginations.

Actually, don't need to be particularly nice, don't intend to use their brains. But trying to stay clear of married owners, esp after Cork. Even if he was damn sexy.

well now bow bird we are getting somewhere...

don't need their brains, don't need to be particularly nice, and age not so much an issue...

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Allegedly did end up in the shower with the owners girlfriend after an offshore..... but no pics, so it DIDN'T happen! Not that way inclined!!! The rest of our crew didn't agree - they wanted the video!!!

 

So need to find some other boat with nice young boys to break in......

 

No need... the older boys will happily oblige, too.

 

 

I'll look forwards to that! Videos were in fantasy land's minds - I hope. Break in, I'll leave to your imaginations.

Actually, don't need to be particularly nice, don't intend to use their brains. But trying to stay clear of married owners, esp after Cork. Even if he was damn sexy.

 

 

In fact - a newbie bowman tip. Should have learnt and stood by this one years ago. Evils of alcohol.

 

DO NOT SHAG OWNER WHO YOU'RE POSSIBLY SAILING WITH.

Now have had to change plans. Just as well that had other options available.

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Allegedly did end up in the shower with the owners girlfriend after an offshore..... but no pics, so it DIDN'T happen! Not that way inclined!!! The rest of our crew didn't agree - they wanted the video!!!

 

So need to find some other boat with nice young boys to break in......

 

No need... the older boys will happily oblige, too.

 

 

I'll look forwards to that! Videos were in fantasy land's minds - I hope. Break in, I'll leave to your imaginations.

Actually, don't need to be particularly nice, don't intend to use their brains. But trying to stay clear of married owners, esp after Cork. Even if he was damn sexy.

 

 

In fact - a newbie bowman tip. Should have learnt and stood by this one years ago. Evils of alcohol.

 

DO NOT SHAG OWNER WHO YOU'RE POSSIBLY SAILING WITH.

Now have had to change plans. Just as well that had other options available.

 

One should always have options. B)

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Allegedly did end up in the shower with the owners girlfriend after an offshore..... but no pics, so it DIDN'T happen! Not that way inclined!!! The rest of our crew didn't agree - they wanted the video!!!

 

So need to find some other boat with nice young boys to break in......

 

No need... the older boys will happily oblige, too.

 

 

I'll look forwards to that! Videos were in fantasy land's minds - I hope. Break in, I'll leave to your imaginations.

Actually, don't need to be particularly nice, don't intend to use their brains. But trying to stay clear of married owners, esp after Cork. Even if he was damn sexy.

 

 

In fact - a newbie bowman tip. Should have learnt and stood by this one years ago. Evils of alcohol.

 

DO NOT SHAG OWNER WHO YOU'RE POSSIBLY SAILING WITH NEXT.

Now have had to change plans. Just as well that had other options available.

 

One should always have options. B)

 

 

(Be they older or younger...)

 

Surely that's part of the job description! If you haven't assessed all eventualities, or been there.... you're probably a newbie.

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So, I've got this little question for the more experienced people up front... It looks as if the weather will become kinda chilly here. Yesterday water temp was about 10 degrees (centegrade) and airtemp about 8, nice 20-25 knots of wind and 4m waves. So it got kinda chilly to my hands. Now I've noticed some people wearing gloves, ski-gloves of some sort which is naturally a no-go when trying to work with the strange shackles this boat I sail on uses.

 

So any experience with frostbite sailing gloves for when winter really sets in (I remember that last years they raced in -5 degrees and snow in quite a bit of breeze which let me to think your fingertips get kinda frosty...)

 

 

Oh and I thought this thread needed a slight bump...

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what about neopren gloves.. get long-fingered ones.. then cut a slit in the thump and index finger.. on the inside, just where the folds/wrinkles on your fingers are.. lie.. on the inside.. (wha.. stupid language!!!)

 

prior to manouvers you can just pull up the fingertip of the glove and push/fold them backwards... that way you at least got your fingertips free for feeling..

 

but you've got to wear normal sailing gloves over them or the neopren will chafe of real soon if jumping halyards..

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So, I've got this little question for the more experienced people up front... It looks as if the weather will become kinda chilly here. Yesterday water temp was about 10 degrees (centegrade) and airtemp about 8, nice 20-25 knots of wind and 4m waves. So it got kinda chilly to my hands. Now I've noticed some people wearing gloves, ski-gloves of some sort which is naturally a no-go when trying to work with the strange shackles this boat I sail on uses.

 

So any experience with frostbite sailing gloves for when winter really sets in (I remember that last years they raced in -5 degrees and snow in quite a bit of breeze which let me to think your fingertips get kinda frosty...)

Oh and I thought this thread needed a slight bump...

 

Assuming you are just doing bow (no mastwork), neoprene gloves work fine, but they will retain water as part of the "warming process". Go with full fingered if you can do all the required work, otherwise either cut the tips off (not what I recommend) or take the gloves off to do the work, then put them back on when done (what I do). I never got used to the feeling of fingerless gloves, and they won't provide any warmth on your fingers, which need to work.

 

Another option that I learned from my old sailing instructor - use dishwashing gloves with a thin glove layer (silk or stretch knit) underneath. You won't get any style points with the color, but your hands will stay absolutely dry, and the gloves will fit well allowing you to do your job on the bow with full finger coverage. Again, if mastwork is necessary this may not work for you, but for bow it works. This can be a very cheap solution if you can't find neoprene in your area.

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The only thing I've ever found that consistently kept my hands warm, and allowed me to work effectively at the same time are pockets.

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those heat packs that are often used for skiing etc are amazing. Havent used them on the boat, but inside of a ski glove they are awesome, as well as in pockets.

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One of the primary requisites for being a good bowman is the ability to look good doing the job. But how pretentious is wearing a bowmans harness on a Benny 34.7? Cool or Homo? Methinks the latter! (Terri Dodds pic)

 

post-13013-1165886390_thumb.jpg

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i lean towards homo for anything but a really major race, in which case why take a chance on the unthinkable happening.

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Okay New question for the weekend =>

 

Where do you store your pole upwind.

 

33footer symmetric kites.

 

Do you store on the mast, on deck etc.

 

and what route do you take crossing the boat during tacks?

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Pole on the mast, set on the correct side for the next mark as a bear away (If the kids want a gybe-set I'll adjust).

Route from rail to rail during tacks is forward of the mast over the spin pole, looking to see if the jib needs to be skirted

then hit the rail. Also pull some slack out of the new lazy sheet if it looks like it would help.

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Okay New question for the weekend =>

 

Where do you store your pole upwind.

 

33footer symmetric kites.

 

Do you store on the mast, on deck etc.

 

and what route do you take crossing the boat during tacks?

 

Our class rules prohibit a pole longer than the J, so we leave it attached at the mast end with the pole lift on the lowest setting. The nose of the pole gets set in the ready position for the set on the next rounding. On the rare instances I have worked with an oversized pole, we stow it flush on the deck (or as flush as possible) with one end clipped to a shroud.

 

During tacks, I go forward to help keep the jib inside the lifelines, and after work is done I go over the pole near the mast to the first seat on the rail.

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There is no one real method to being a bowman..Chances are you will run into all of these types of problems.....

 

1. You have an afterguard that expects you to grow a third arm, which means they don't give you enough time to either setup or take down.....it gets messed up and they yell at you. Example....You have two boat lengths to the weather mark and the afterguard yells out......Gybe set, followed by a peel to the 1.5 ounce......WHAT!

2. You have an owner that runs up onto your bow to take things from you, which means they have the biggest ego on the boat and they will mess it up worse.....and then they yell at you. Example.....Stomp, stomp, stomp....Give me that! My advice is sit back on the rail and watch the fleet pass you by..

3. You run into a team that trusts that you will get the job done.....usually you get money for sailing......bonus you deserve to get yelled at if you mess up. Example....You are getting paid for this! Hurry Up!

 

Take it with a grain of salt.....talk with the owner and always get a debrief....Then next time, you will know what's expected of you. Remember, they need you on that bow and they are not going to do it themselves. Carry a rigging knife and a leatherman, because you never know when someone will try to kill you!

 

At the end of the day.....find other bowmen and start telling war stories over drinks.

 

 

Okay did you read the entire thread? Obviously not or you wouldn't be preaching at me. I've got a pretty good idea on what happens up on the pointy end.

 

I was asking cause(Gasp) I actually got to see sailing on TV the other night. Not really it was like a 2 minute news clip, but happened to be the boat I was racing on. Got to watch us go through a couple of tacks, a bear away and a Gybeset. Actually they cut the clip before the actual set in the gybe set.

our pole which is stowed on the mast(like everyone it seems)and it just didn't look. . . . I don't know. It's not that it didn't look right, but well it didn't.

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I've got a pretty good idea on what happens up on the pointy end.

Phhtt! :P:)

 

If the pole is less than J or slightly longer I'd store it on the mast but I've only raced a couple boats where that was the case. Other than that every boat I've been on has had a D ring on the bottom inside of the pulpit, if the boat has staunchions then just throw it down, if not then inside the stays.

 

2. You have an owner that runs up onto your bow to take things from you, which means they have the biggest ego on the boat and they will mess it up worse.....and then they yell at you. Example.....Stomp, stomp, stomp....Give me that! My advice is sit back on the rail and watch the fleet pass you by.

That breaks the second rule... no one but the foredeck team is allowed in front of the mast whilst racing. No, it's not an ego or wank rule before some gets on the high horse... at 3am when I'm peeling kites I know exactly what is where and my halyards aren't twisted.

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A favorite of mine when a captain thinks they can do a better job up front is to run back and take the helm because you can probably drive better than them.

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1. My best and possibly only tip is to always have a mental picture of what everything should look like.

 

2. Our pole = J so we keep it clipped to the track at deck level.

 

3. I drag the jib clew round then crawl across coachroof. Leads to lots of bruises n grazes, but seems pretty quick.

 

4. I have slight problem with complying with rules 3 or 4 - the skip's my dad.

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A favorite of mine when a captain thinks they can do a better job up front is to run back and take the helm because you can probably drive better than them.

 

I like that. I'll have to try it.

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Okay New question for the weekend =>

 

Where do you store your pole upwind.

 

33footer symmetric kites.

 

Do you store on the mast, on deck etc.

 

and what route do you take crossing the boat during tacks?

 

 

I leave the pole on the mast. It's best to keep things hooked up and ready to go as much as possible. While stowing the pole on the shroud, and thus more flush with the deck, may make it easier to get around on the bow, you never know when you need that extra few seconds because Fantasyland decides to have you do the Triple Lindy hoist with a half a boat length to the windward mark.

 

Also, I generally go across the deck either around the front of the mast so I can help the jib around, or I go under the jib so I can skirt it quickly.

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Okay New question for the weekend =>

 

Where do you store your pole upwind.

 

33footer symmetric kites.

 

Do you store on the mast, on deck etc.

 

and what route do you take crossing the boat during tacks?

doing bow on a 38ft...

 

non-overlapping headsails:

rail-front of mast-rail , check for the skirt

 

overlapping

rail- pull lart of the skirt forward so that the leach can easily pass the mast (and at the same time no need for skirting after the tack)- back to the rail

 

On a j22 the pole naturally gets "stored" between the shrouds and cabin top. ON the IMX38 (and X-442 I foredecked on before that) the pole stayed attached to the track (and preferebly ready for a top mark bear away set, so on starboard but pole down is more important thanfully ready for the next hois, you've got a whole beat for getting ready)

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Okay New question for the weekend =>

 

Where do you store your pole upwind.

 

33footer symmetric kites.

 

Do you store on the mast, on deck etc.

 

and what route do you take crossing the boat during tacks?

 

I'm sailing on a 34' symmetric kites

 

pole is stored alongside the main-boom. advantage is, your downhaul and toppinglift stay attached and will always clear the jib sheets no matter how you set the pole (you just can't fuck up)

on mast takes to long to set/take away (that's my opinion from sailing on 42', 39' and 38' footers..)

on bigger boats than 34' keeping on deck in the lowest position on the mast track is fine. even if pole=longer than J.. just poke it through the front bulpit. here topper and downfucker stay attached as well..

 

crossing: straight over coachroof under main boom. there is no need for a bowman to mess with the jib during tacks.. on our 34'

have your trimmers and helmsman practice tacking and timing of release, sheeting in and steering. in the end the jib will just float around the mast without catching and then be guided in between stanchions/railing and shrouds by the helmsman and a good trimmer/tailer..

 

I never have to pick the skirt over the lifelines..you just might have to look for knots in blocks if the trimmer does not pay attention releasing the sheet

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On the 37, dip poling, I leave pole attached to mast and ready to go straight up as necessary without messing about. Our pole in considerably longer than J!

On end-end boats, as the uphaul is mid pole anyway (on it's bridle) I usually drop it down to a shroud, as easier to hoist on uphaul, then connect into track/ring. Whichever is quicker on your particular boat and keeps you on the rail maximum time and by definition is quick.

 

Round the front on tacks, ready to skirt if necessary - although if I have to skirt, the trimmers owe me a Mt Gay each time. I don't often need to skirt anymore.

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On end for enders that = J,

before the douse with the kite up in light and moderate conditions, lower the inboard end of the pole to a height that enables the outboard end to touch the deck just forward of the after leg of the pulpit that also allows the outboard end to be passed to either side of the headstay, AND allows the foredeck hatch to be opened-shut.

On many boats this is the bottom band measurement mark of the mainsail.

 

You will save time after the rounding the leeward mark with not having a crew raise or lower the inboard end to open the hatch, and permit a quick descision on weather the next windward mark will be either a gybe set or bear away set to consider which side the pole should be on.

Also it prevents the pulpit being skewered aft of the pulpit legs for that embarrasing foop-up.

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Anyone out there experienced with handling a staysail whilst flying an Assy (from the pole). Especially the gybing part hasn't been going fluently (staysail-sheets all tangled up around the pole).

 

set-up:

-assy flown from top of the mast

-staysail on the jib halyard and set around a metre and a half from the bow

-top lift of the boom exitst the mast about a metre below the jib halyard

 

Could the fact that the downhaul for our symmetric work was still rigged screwed things up hugely? (it's no longer attached, but we haven't practised with the staysail since some more mods to the boat [aftersales])

 

Thanks

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not sure what size your boat is..

 

try treating the staysail just as you would treat a jib.

 

trip pole, raise the inboard end so that the pole can be dipped unter staysail attachment point. lower pole, pull the topping to the mast, jibe staysail, keep new lazy staysailsheet above/outside/over topping on top of the pole, raise pole, reattach assy, shout at fantasyland, drink beer and proceed down the course..

 

the downhaul is no problem at all.. no need to take it off..

 

actually it's just the back of the boat who have to jibe the assy and keep it flying without the pole nicely..

 

edit: even though this might not work for you, if your pole is too long or the mast track too short.. you wouldn't be able to rise the inboard end high enough to pass the pole under staysail

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not sure what size your boat is..

 

try treating the staysail just as you would treat a jib.

 

trip pole, raise the inboard end so that the pole can be dipped unter staysail attachment point. lower pole, pull the topping to the mast, jibe staysail, keep new lazy staysailsheet above/outside/over topping on top of the pole, raise pole, reattach assy, shout at fantasyland, drink beer and proceed down the course..

 

the downhaul is no problem at all.. no need to take it off..

 

actually it's just the back of the boat who have to jibe the assy and keep it flying without the pole nicely..

 

edit: even though this might not work for you, if your pole is too long or the mast track too short.. you wouldn't be able to rise the inboard end high enough to pass the pole under staysail

We jibe the pole detaching it from the mast (oversized pole, 44feet boat...)

Think I figured out what went wrong, downhaul was attached in front of the staysail attachement...

 

So Jibing went as follows:

call, trip, pole from the mast and back

then the pole came forward and was attached to the new guy but now the downhaul went around the staysail and that could not be unfurled.

 

Downhaul no longer is attached to the pole when we fly the assy so the problem should be solved, but thanks for the help.

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Where do you store your pole upwind.

 

33footer symmetric kites.

 

Do you store on the mast, on deck etc.

 

and what route do you take crossing the boat during tacks?

 

 

On deck, attached to the shroud on the side for a standard bearaway set.

 

I cross in front of the mast and lag a second or two behind the rail meat so that I can skirt the jib if necessary (when we have the #1 or #2 up - if fantasy land needs a skirt on the #3 then we are in real trouble). In light breeze I may help the jib around. Anything to help the back of the boat look like are in tune and doing good work. Then I wait for the day that they return the favor.

 

30 footer symmetric

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On deck, attached to the shroud on the side for a standard bearaway set.

 

imho (and i used to do it that way) that is a bad place... if the pole is longer than the j and there is an, errr, let's just say a port-starboard situation resulting in a collision, that pole has to go somewhere, right? i'd rather have it attatched to something NOT holding the mast up.... to keep it in the same neck of the woods, a velcro loop as a breakaway link right there works well, or even a piece of shock cord....

 

2 cents.

 

/c

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imho (and i used to do it that way) that is a bad place... if the pole is longer than the j and there is an, errr, let's just say a port-starboard situation resulting in a collision, that pole has to go somewhere, right? i'd rather have it attatched to something NOT holding the mast up.... to keep it in the same neck of the woods, a velcro loop as a breakaway link right there works well, or even a piece of shock cord....

 

2 cents.

 

/c

 

Excellent point. I've seen a number of boats with the pole (> J) secured at the base of the mast AND sticking out nicely. I've often wondered what would be the point that would give in a collision....

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your question will be answered here: carbon pole, it simply breaks and minor gelcoat damage to the deck joint area. Dont want to think about alumuminum.

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I almost started to call myself a bowman, but I just stick with foredeck crew for now... My new boat/team expect a bit more than I was used to (and that is great!). This results in all kinds of new experiences and sometimes some problems but mostly just oppurtunities for solutions and a lot of learning...

 

My latest challenge:

peeling from Asym to sym spinnaker... (or the other way around) when the time comes it'll probably be from masthead to fractional.

 

This is the set-up:

44ft boat, pole (dipping only), 2 masthead and 1 fractional halyard, tackline well in front of the headstay (25 cm or so)

 

Anyone got any suggestions? Thanks anyways

 

Didn't find it in the thread yet, it was all about porn and the owner's daughter(girlfriend) which is of course as (if not more) important

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Peeling from a masthead to a frac actually simplifies things a bit as your halyard choices etc. will already be made for you.

 

Going from A-kite (on the pole, I assume) to Sym, I reckon you've got two choices.

 

First choice, do the peel exactly how you would do it normally. Handcuff the old kit to the pole, clip the new kite to the guy, attach a changing sheet, and hoist, clean up the mess afterwards. DO NOT FORGET to attach the downhaul/foreguy if you didn't have one attached while the A-kite was up.

 

The other option which would be very simple, would be to transfer the load on the tack of the A-kite to the tack line, and let off the guy as you would do if you were going to jibe. Then disconnect the guy, basically set your Sym kite just like you would if the A wasn't there, and take it down at your leisure. This may not always be the desirable option as 1) you may have to head up to keep the A-kite full when it is not being poled back or 2) you may not want to head up and therefore will going a bit slower.

 

Peeling back to the A, I would be tempted to just set it on the tackline, with one sheet hooked up, then attach the rest of the gear once the old kite is down. Depending how far forward your tack line is, and your masthead/frac situation, it sounds like you would quite likely have to set the new kite outside the old one. This can be ugly but there's often not much you can do about it.

 

Either way it shouldn't be too tough.

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That's one for the 'Bowman Dunking Shots'-thread

 

We haven't been out in a serious swell, no clue how 'dry' the boat will be up front. can't be really bothered by that though...

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You may have to tune up your language. Things like, "Kiss my Ass" means ,"Yes, Sir, I'll change the chute right away."

Also there are signals, here is a study guide:

 

post-309-1174342051_thumb.jpg

 

Then there are also some distractions:

 

post-309-1174341920_thumb.jpg

 

Good luck!!!

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You may have to tune up your language. Things like, "Kiss my Ass" means ,"Yes, Sir, I'll change the chute right away."

Got a nice person to teach me that (he knows his business also with words...)

Also there are signals, here is a study guide:

post-309-1174342051_thumb.jpg

This hasn't taken off like just like the BU site has it?

 

Then there are also some distractions:

 

post-309-1174341920_thumb.jpg

 

Good luck!!!

Haven't sailed in conditions that got these pictures... I look forward to more global warming...

 

Oh and I did do this at home..:

fig1.jpg and fig2.jpg

those who know where I got these from...

 

Oh and Thanks!

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Got a nice person to teach me that (he knows his business also with words...)

 

This hasn't taken off like just like the BU site has it?

Haven't sailed in conditions that got these pictures... I look forward to more global warming...

 

Oh and I did do this at home..:

fig1.jpg and fig2.jpg

those who know where I got these from...

 

Oh and Thanks!

 

BU.

 

Now for my newest question, I need some tips or advice for doing bow on a Mumm 30. I will be most likely sailing on one seriously this summer and want to do bow, I know they do the end over end deal, but besides that I don't know much about the boat. I'd like to hear some info about the sheet and guy set-up, halyards, sets, douses, etc. Thanks.

 

TC

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BU.

 

Now for my newest question, I need some tips or advice for doing bow on a Mumm 30. I will be most likely sailing on one seriously this summer and want to do bow, I know they do the end over end deal, but besides that I don't know much about the boat. I'd like to hear some info about the sheet and guy set-up, halyards, sets, douses, etc. Thanks.

 

TC

 

I do bow on a Mumm 30 since October. Here is how we setup (there are other ways):

 

- 2 fractional halyards just above the headstay, coming out of the mast both on port

- 1 masthead halyard at the masthead, coming out on starboard

- 1 topper just below the headstay, coming out on starboard

- Spi in forehatch

- Doubble sheets/guys, end for end, pole stored on starboard on the rail. (you're hiking on it).

- Downhaul gets a LOT of slack and goes THROUGH the jib-sheets. Don't have to make loose anything when racing.

- Topper gets little slack when sailing upwind

- spi-halyard gets a lot of slack and is behind the spreaders

 

On the set:

- Slack on jib-sheets

- put pole in

- spi up

- jib down and rolled in front of downhaul

 

On the windward drop:

- unroll jib on right side, hoist it

- Slack on downhaul!!!!!

- SLACK ON DOWNHAUL!!!!

- Clip of pole, get it vertical and drop it behind the jib (on it's spot)

- Spi down

 

On the kiwi-drop (or other leeward drop):

- unroll jib on right side, hoist it

- Put pole down

- Slack on downhaul (a lot, because you have to gybe)

- Spi down

 

When sailing upwind and you need the guy in the pole, just slide the pole back and clip it in while hiking.

 

Peeling Spi's:

Masthead to chicken chute (fractional):

- peel-sheet to chicken chute, halyard to chicken chute (all inside)

- peel-shackle to old spi, spike old spi

- guy to chicken chute

- hoist chicken chute

- drop masthead through mailbox

 

Chicken chute to masthead:

Same way, but you have to rig the new chute outside

 

Since the chicken chute is only used in reaching (and is thus coming down on the same side as it got up, 90% of the times), always rig it with the leeward fractional halyard. This way you're never fucked with your next jib-peel.

 

Very important: Always protest a few times when you have to hoist the chicken chute... (Or just refuse to do it) ;)

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your question will be answered here: carbon pole, it simply breaks and minor gelcoat damage to the deck joint area. Dont want to think about alumuminum.

Aluminum bends in a collision.

post-7931-1174864965_thumb.jpg

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Aluminum bends in a collision.

post-7931-1174864965_thumb.jpg

 

i was actually thinking of what would happen to the other boat being hit by an aluminum pole.

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i was actually thinking of what would happen to the other boat being hit by an aluminum pole.

With multi-ton boats slamming into each other you are worried about the pole?

 

Actually, the hull damage was minor. It was the rigging damage that cost $$$$$--especially the new mast.

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not worried about the pole at all, im worried about what the pole would do to the boat. Which, apparently, was minor in your case. Wouldnt have been in mine though...

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Slightly different topic.... On a 40' sprit boat (J125) at what wind speed do you switch from an inside jibe to an outside jibe? (where the spin rotates forward the forestay instead of the more typical inside the forestay. And when you do the outside jibe, how do you keep the lazy sheet from falling off the end of the sprit and getting caught under the bow?

 

Oh yeah and if you are a good bowman in the Seattle area with experience on sprit boats, PM me. I may have a spot on a fast fun new boat coming to town.

 

Lat21

 

.

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Slightly different topic.... On a 40' sprit boat (J125) at what wind speed do you switch from an inside jibe to an outside jibe? (where the spin rotates forward the forestay instead of the more typical inside the forestay. And when you do the outside jibe, how do you keep the lazy sheet from falling off the end of the sprit and getting caught under the bow?

 

Oh yeah and if you are a good bowman in the Seattle area with experience on sprit boats, PM me. I may have a spot on a fast fun new boat coming to town.

 

Lat21

 

.

 

Switch from inside gybes to outside gybes at about 15kts TWS, give or take a bit depending on how prone to rounding up

the boat is.

 

Most assm's on larger boats have a batten sewn into the tack at an angle to the luff such that it will theoretically capture

the lazy sheet as you gybe...actual results may vary.

 

Welcome to town, and good luck.

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Switch from inside gybes to outside gybes at about 15kts TWS, give or take a bit depending on how prone to rounding up

the boat is.

 

Most assm's on larger boats have a batten sewn into the tack at an angle to the luff such that it will theoretically capture

the lazy sheet as you gybe...actual results may vary.

 

Welcome to town, and good luck.

 

 

?

Sorry, I am slow on the uptake this monday.

Could you show a picture/diagram of this?

 

Now, batten taped to the underside of the pole to catch lazy sheets, I have heard of.

 

This, not yet.

 

thnx,

M

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I've never sailed an assy bigger than an RS400, so: when on a big assy, do you have two sets of sheets rigged, one set for inny gybes and one set for outty gybes? Or do you just feed the lazy sheet round the front of the sail when you want to do an outty gybe.

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?

Sorry, I am slow on the uptake this monday.

Could you show a picture/diagram of this?

 

Now, batten taped to the underside of the pole to catch lazy sheets, I have heard of.

 

This, not yet.

 

thnx,

M

I have a shitload of photos of VO70's with this set-up but it was very bright day, so the white 'rhino-horn' doesn't show good.

post-9015-1175541928_thumb.jpg Look closely at the tack

 

It really is a tough piece of dacron sown (SP?) into the tack of the assy, it points upwards at about 45 deg and away from the boat. We have it (Assy from the sprit) and I think it only has any use when outside gybing.

 

Monkey:

If one would go from inside to outside, jusr re-rig the sheet, it would be too heavy to have multiple sheets on the assy (even when it is massive) We sail from the sprit so always gybe outside (and thus we need the rhino horn)

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I have a shitload of photos of VO70's with this set-up but it was very bright day, so the white 'rhino-horn' doesn't show good.

post-9015-1175541928_thumb.jpg Look closely at the tack

 

It really is a tough piece of dacron sown (SP?) into the tack of the assy, it points upwards at about 45 deg and away from the boat. We have it (Assy from the sprit) and I think it only has any use when outside gybing.

 

Monkey:

If one would go from inside to outside, jusr re-rig the sheet, it would be too heavy to have multiple sheets on the assy (even when it is massive) We sail from the sprit so always gybe outside (and thus we need the rhino horn)

 

Thanks!

Yes, I do see it clearly.

Honestly, I never would have thought that it would work. I would have guessed that the lazy sheet would miss it in all the fluttering and instability of the chute during the gibe and end up below the spirit. Good to know....

 

-M

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Might be doing bow on a new boat. Dip pole, no asyms, 45ft lead mine, no life lines, no rail, no mast man, not sure if the pole can be kept attached to the mast when not in use.

 

1) Hoist seems straight forward enough, just go like a bandit and thank god for hanks

2) Gybes - somewhat interesting - assume that I would trip, bring the pole into the boat and then go forward to put in the lazy guy, go on the topper, back to the mast to get the butt down.

3) Douses - this is where it gets interesting, especially in a blow. Figure always douse to leward - no point in getting fancy and easy enough to rerun rigging. My normal proceedure is to get a handon the middle of the foot if posible and go straight up while they blow the guy. Thinking this maybe difficult when there is only me up there. Someone mentioned "stretch and blow" but was not sure of the exact mechanics (sounded bad when they explained it)

 

Suggestions? Thoughts? and no getting a mast man is not an option:(

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Get a mast-man..... ;) My thoughts:

 

Hoisting: Downhaul should be on. Prevents the pole from getting squared, and getting the spi full before it's top. After the "TOP!" call, they can square it.

 

Gybing: Make sure your trip-line is very long, you have to be able to use it as far to the front as possible. Push the pole good on the right side of the forestay (if it falls back to leeward, you have to go back).

 

Douses: Don't agree on the always leeward-douses: if the pole can't be stored on the mast, it's not so easy to get it on the other site. If the trimmers and helmsman can keep it full for a long time, you have all the time to get the pole out early, and drop the spi on the right side. (the left-side). Have someone in the hatch to get it all in.

 

What kind of boat?

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Question:

 

Where to put your fid when not in use?? It's hanging on a line on my climbing-harnas right now, but I want a good spot to put it away.

 

Does someone have pictures of solutions?

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Question:

 

Where to put your fid when not in use?? It's hanging on a line on my climbing-harnas right now, but I want a good spot to put it away.

 

Does someone have pictures of solutions?

 

I have the spinlock harness and the fid goes almost horizontal in an elastic 'pocket' on my back... Go to the shoe repair man and ask him to sow a piece of elastic band (wide and tapering) on the back. It is really nice and out of the way in this set-up.

 

Here's the deckware site with some pics of the set-up

http://www.spinlockdeckware.com/products.asp?id=4917

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BU.

 

Now for my newest question, I need some tips or advice for doing bow on a Mumm 30. I will be most likely sailing on one seriously this summer and want to do bow, I know they do the end over end deal, but besides that I don't know much about the boat. I'd like to hear some info about the sheet and guy set-up, halyards, sets, douses, etc. Thanks.

 

TC

 

There is a thread on Mumm30 foredeck stuff, do a search

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Slightly different topic.... On a 40' sprit boat (J125) at what wind speed do you switch from an inside jibe to an outside jibe? (where the spin rotates forward the forestay instead of the more typical inside the forestay. And when you do the outside jibe, how do you keep the lazy sheet from falling off the end of the sprit and getting caught under the bow?

 

Oh yeah and if you are a good bowman in the Seattle area with experience on sprit boats, PM me. I may have a spot on a fast fun new boat coming to town.

 

Lat21

 

Did you guys just buy Erleichda? The 125 for sale in Michigan? Congrats if you did - another quick boat on the west coast....

 

opusone

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Get a mast-man..... ;) My thoughts:

 

Hoisting: Downhaul should be on. Prevents the pole from getting squared, and getting the spi full before it's top. After the "TOP!" call, they can square it.

 

Gybing: Make sure your trip-line is very long, you have to be able to use it as far to the front as possible. Push the pole good on the right side of the forestay (if it falls back to leeward, you have to go back).

 

Douses: Don't agree on the always leeward-douses: if the pole can't be stored on the mast, it's not so easy to get it on the other site. If the trimmers and helmsman can keep it full for a long time, you have all the time to get the pole out early, and drop the spi on the right side. (the left-side). Have someone in the hatch to get it all in.

 

What kind of boat?

 

Not worried about the early square so much - Monkeys at the back are actually pretty good about that kind of stuff

Long trip line - yup

Not sure how well weather douses will work with the whichard hanks - I am always worried about dragging the sail over the hanks as they have a tendancy to catch at exactly the wrong time

 

Still trying to figure out this "Stretch and blow stuff". Figure it is like "mexicans", had no idea of what they were talking about till I saw one and then I just wondered where they came up with the stupid name :lol:

 

Boat - old meter tub. Pretty furniture but...

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Stretch and Blow drop:

Probably just a standard leeward mark, round up...pull the chute under the genoa...stretching the the guy...and blowing the halyard. The sail will stream to leeward as the foredeck crew quickly gathers the chute in under the sail. All of the weather drop stuff is mainly on boats that don't disconnect the gear between sets typically.

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I'm surprised no one has mentioned putting both the guy and lazy sheet into the pole end for the first hoist of the race....this stops the cowboying issue everytime for dip pole gybes. when the pole is tripped coming into the 1st gybe, both sheet & guy will pop clear.

 

Done it on 40's for the last 10 yrs... kept me safe to date.... here is not tempting fate now!

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I'm surprised no one has mentioned putting both the guy and lazy sheet into the pole end for the first hoist of the race....

 

see post #116 (and probably others), geez I even mentioned the guy in case you guys got confused ;)

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Okay getting back to newbie bowman tips:

 

Doing the front is 90% thinking. The most important thing to remember is that a good bowman gives the brains trust the options they need to win a race, if a situation develops they need to react fast, a good bowman will have predicted all the possible scenarios already. For instance have a plan for swapping from gybe to bear away set half way up the beat, one tack out, ten boat lengths, five boat lengths, have a plan for what you're gonna do if the tactician calls for set change as you're actually bearing away.

 

Never let go of the boat.

 

Practice everything, I used to go through every possible manoever in dock, over and over, work out where you need to put your feet and hands, basically choreograph yourself.

 

Never let go of the boat.

 

Call everything by it's proper name, don't just scream sheet at the guys in the back, they might have six sheets to deal with and they've probably got their own issues, ease port kite sheet takes a split second longer, but tells the guys exactly what you need.

 

Never let go of the boat.

 

Wear kit you feel comfortable in, everyone has their own preferences, but look after your body. Doing the front can be pretty brutal, I even used to wear shin pads on the Ultimate/Ultra 30's and Formula 40's.

 

Never let go of the boat (do I need to say that again?)

 

On anything bigger than about 3 or 4 tonnes, there is pretty much no way you can fight the power of the wind in the sails once the breeze gets up, the guys at the back have winches and stuff for a reason. Make sure that they know nothing happens up the front until the relevant bits of string are unloaded.

 

I IS okay to wear your harness in the bar, if you have the time to get it off your priorities are obviously all wrong.

 

Ask the good guys for tips, they love it. Most bowman have some kind of inferiority/superiority complex and love attention.... If they think you value their opinion they bullshit for hours.

 

Bowman are superior to all others, all others think bowman are inferior, hence the complex

 

Oh and never let go of the boat.... ever....

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Ref Post #447 -

 

Going from the S to A or A to S using the tack line works well, just make

sure you can reach the tack shackle when it it time to spike the A kite.

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I've never sailed an assy bigger than an RS400, so: when on a big assy, do you have two sets of sheets rigged, one set for inny gybes and one set for outty gybes? Or do you just feed the lazy sheet round the front of the sail when you want to do an outty gybe.

 

One set of sheets...

 

Actually, it's easier than that...

 

When you position the kite for the set, run the head inboard out outboard of the (soon to be windward, i.e. lazy) sheet that attached the the clew; If you run the head inboard, your gybing around the outside. Conversely, if you rig the head outboard, you're gybing through the inside...

 

[quote name=}

On a 40' sprit boat (J125) at what wind speed do you switch from an inside jibe to an outside jibe? (where the spin rotates forward the forestay instead of the more typical inside the forestay. And when you do the outside jibe, how do you keep the lazy sheet from falling off the end of the sprit and getting caught under the bow?

 

BTW, that's inside/outside the luff of the kite, not the forestay, but you already new that! ;)

 

ML

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I have a shitload of photos of VO70's with this set-up but it was very bright day, so the white 'rhino-horn' doesn't show good.

post-9015-1175541928_thumb.jpg Look closely at the tack

 

It really is a tough piece of dacron sown (SP?) into the tack of the assy, it points upwards at about 45 deg and away from the boat. We have it (Assy from the sprit) and I think it only has any use when outside gybing.

 

 

 

That, my friend, is the "job-u-lator". We called it "the dick" until our sailmaker on board with us this past weekend told us the proper name. Apparently, they had a contest in their loft to come up with the name. Job-u-lator was the winner.

 

:lol:

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i fucken hate those things! They make it a motherfucker to pre-feed the chute out to the pole. It gets caught on the lifelines, jib foot, then the jaws. Then when you go to douse it will angle itself so you cant pull it over the life lines without having to get up and get it. (very frustrating short handed as i like to stand in the hatch as i pull it down.)

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Make sure you always have the right tool. Get one of these and you'll always be prepared.

post-8756-1182785083_thumb.jpg

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(At the risk of getting flamed.....)

 

So, what is the SA guidance on when a bowman-in-training can actually call himself a bowman?

 

a) Can identify bow of the boat from the stern?

 

B) Can correctly spell 'bowman' two out of three times?

 

c) Can make it through a race without screwing up?

 

d) Can make it through a season without screwing up?

 

e) Joins the Union?

 

f) Can call wind/knocks/lifts at least 10 boat lengths out?

 

g) Sustains a life-threatening injury do to someone else's FUBAR?

 

h) Can simutaneously raise the Kite/drop the Jib in 30 seconds without assistance of a mast or pit?

 

i) Other?

 

 

 

Smurff

Bowman-in-training

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This is my first season learning the art from the master himself, Shife. Some things I've learned so far:

 

1. Learn to squat while doing everything or wear knee pads unless you want your knees constantly sore and bruised.

 

2. Swear whenever possible and routinely give the back of the bus the finger

 

3. If the kite collapses on your head, it was defintely the trimmers/drivers fault and absolutely not due to how long it took you flip the pole around...

 

4. Drink beer between sail changes

 

5. When releasing the kite for a drop on a dip pole, DO NOT stand on the opposite site of the pole from the kite. The release of pressure on the pole after letting the kite go will cause the pole to fly towards you, hitting you in the head, and almost knocking you off the side of the boat....

 

6. Never ever let anyone pack your sails or run any of your lines....

 

7. Yell loudly. The back of the bus is deaf and not paying attention to you. Find a key word that is helpful in getting their attention - like boobs or bacon.

 

8. Be very cautious. There is always at least one idiot on your boat that will drop something on you.

 

9. Get a mast man.

 

10. Drink more beer.

 

:D

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Shife, sounds like your Padowan learner is advancing quite quickly.

 

 

This is my first season learning the art from the master himself, Shife. Some things I've learned so far:

 

1. Learn to squat while doing everything or wear knee pads unless you want your knees constantly sore and bruised.

 

2. Swear whenever possible and routinely give the back of the bus the finger

 

3. If the kite collapses on your head, it was defintely the trimmers/drivers fault and absolutely not due to how long it took you flip the pole around...

 

4. Drink beer between sail changes

 

5. When releasing the kite for a drop on a dip pole, DO NOT stand on the opposite site of the pole from the kite. The release of pressure on the pole after letting the kite go will cause the pole to fly towards you, hitting you in the head, and almost knocking you off the side of the boat....

 

6. Never ever let anyone pack your sails or run any of your lines....

 

7. Yell loudly. The back of the bus is deaf and not paying attention to you. Find a key word that is helpful in getting their attention - like boobs or bacon.

 

8. Be very cautious. There is always at least one idiot on your boat that will drop something on you.

 

9. Get a mast man.

 

10. Drink more beer.

 

:D

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Shife, sounds like your Padowan learner is advancing quite quickly.

Indeed she is advancing very quickly. She looks a hell of a lot better up there than I do as well.

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two things, one:

it's been quiet too quiet

 

Second thing, help!

thing is I've done bow past season on a 44 footer (big stuff, both a and sym off the pole) all no worries or something (had a great mentor) and the occasional small keelboat (regenboog, yngling, beneteau 25 aka platu). But now in a new spot (Solent :lol: ) and been doing the bow on 30 footers with end for end. Yesterday was a hoot, 31footer (racer) end-end pole (duh...) but in the 30+ knots of breeze I couldn't get the old guy out of the pole fast, nor the pole easily across to get the now old guy out of the thingy (what's the term?). Major reason was probably the tripping of the pole, checked the working on the dock and decided lube wasn't needed. Should I've done that anyway or is there a handy technique to get the endthingies tripped under load?

 

Thanks.

 

Oh, the weekend (hamble winter series and big boats series) was a good weekend foredeck wise... One duck failed (broken forestay on ducker, hole in the receiving boat) and at least one guy went swimming (But I think the water in the Solent might have been warmer than the air).

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First the thingy you are refering to is the Beak, or Jaws.

 

Second in 30+ knots you might want to think about getting the pole onto the new guy before taking it off the old one. That way you can plant your feet, twist at the waist, and rotate the whole kite across. Then trip the old guy.

 

If you're having trouble getting the pole off the guy roll it toward you(Assuming you're facing forward) while pulling the outboard end of hte pole down(assuming you set it Jaws up)

 

 

two things, one:

it's been quiet too quiet

 

Second thing, help!

thing is I've done bow past season on a 44 footer (big stuff, both a and sym off the pole) all no worries or something (had a great mentor) and the occasional small keelboat (regenboog, yngling, beneteau 25 aka platu). But now in a new spot (Solent :lol: ) and been doing the bow on 30 footers with end for end. Yesterday was a hoot, 31footer (racer) end-end pole (duh...) but in the 30+ knots of breeze I couldn't get the old guy out of the pole fast, nor the pole easily across to get the now old guy out of the thingy (what's the term?). Major reason was probably the tripping of the pole, checked the working on the dock and decided lube wasn't needed. Should I've done that anyway or is there a handy technique to get the endthingies tripped under load?

 

Thanks.

 

Oh, the weekend (hamble winter series and big boats series) was a good weekend foredeck wise... One duck failed (broken forestay on ducker, hole in the receiving boat) and at least one guy went swimming (But I think the water in the Solent might have been warmer than the air).

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First the thingy you are refering to is the Beak, or Jaws.

 

Second in 30+ knots you might want to think about getting the pole onto the new guy before taking it off the old one. That way you can plant your feet, twist at the waist, and rotate the whole kite across. Then trip the old guy.

 

If you're having trouble getting the pole off the guy roll it toward you(Assuming you're facing forward) while pulling the outboard end of the pole down(assuming you set it Jaws up)

Thanks, had the new guy in the jaw, but couldn't get the "old" jaw to open and therefore release the guy, get the pole across and put it on the mast again. As said before guys at the back did a great job and just were freeflying the spinnaker and the little boat's speed didn't drop below 10 knots in the gybe, apperently.

 

Anyway, the theory was correct, just the execution lacked finesse.

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Hey guys, Throughout this season i've been doing bow on an old school Cassidy 55, bit of POS but fun to sail on anyway. I've been invited to go up to asia and to race Raja Muda and Kings Cup with the team. My mastman is a great guy and is really strong, can hoist the main by himself and get the masthead up the quickest i've ever seen. The problem is that he thinks that that is his onl;y job on the boat. Now although i'm very fit i'm still not massivly strong and have trouble carrying around JT's, Genoa's, Jibs etc by myself. He just sits there and watches me struggle and never gets off his fat ass to help me!

 

My question is should the mastman help with moving sails around or should I just quit my bitching and get super strong in 3 weeks??? How would you go about approachim him to ask him to help??

 

BTW I'm only 17 so everybody treats me like a bit of a DH, I can stear the boat like my father can, either 2 degrees higher or a 1/4 knot faster, and can Trim failry well as well but still everybody ignores me when it comes to TACTICAL decisions like what sails to use, what way to go, etc. As the bowman should i just shut up and wait for an opening as a trimmer or helmsman or similar??

 

Cheers JRTC

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I dont know the type of people you sail with so i suggest keeping your mouth shut for tactical calls. As for asking for help, why not just ask him to give you a hand with carrying that shit around? If he comes off an ass, just shrug it off and keep working i guess...

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Hey guys, Throughout this season i've been doing bow on an old school Cassidy 55, bit of POS but fun to sail on anyway. I've been invited to go up to asia and to race Raja Muda and Kings Cup with the team. My mastman is a great guy and is really strong, can hoist the main by himself and get the masthead up the quickest i've ever seen. The problem is that he thinks that that is his onl;y job on the boat. Now although i'm very fit i'm still not massivly strong and have trouble carrying around JT's, Genoa's, Jibs etc by myself. He just sits there and watches me struggle and never gets off his fat ass to help me!

 

My question is should the mastman help with moving sails around or should I just quit my bitching and get super strong in 3 weeks??? How would you go about approachim him to ask him to help??

 

BTW I'm only 17 so everybody treats me like a bit of a DH, I can stear the boat like my father can, either 2 degrees higher or a 1/4 knot faster, and can Trim failry well as well but still everybody ignores me when it comes to TACTICAL decisions like what sails to use, what way to go, etc. As the bowman should i just shut up and wait for an opening as a trimmer or helmsman or similar??

 

Cheers JRTC

 

As to the sail calls, you'll learn that as the youngest on the boat you get ignored pretty often, it comes with most every big boat I have ever sailed on. When on the bow, I let the guys in the back make the choice, I don't tell them my opinion, I simply set what sail they want and do it well. To get more respect, offer to help out with boat work as much as possible, if you manage to learn the boat inside and out and work on it a lot, you might become the "captain" of sorts. Not the actual paid kind, but you are the owners/skippers right hand man when it comes to the boat.

 

As to the mast man, he should definitely be helping out with lugging sails around, seems like he's a pretty big guy. Talk to him on the way out to the race course or give him a buzz or e-mail and talk to him about how you think things should work and how he might be able to help out. Don't make it sound like you're a dick but ask him for some help with moving the sails.

 

TC

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or big boats the foredeck crew usually consists of bow, mid-bow and mast with the mid-bow to help lugging sails around. Without him, you should be able to rely on the mastman to help you out. Tell him (in a friendly way) and make sure to remember to say it to him when going out to the race. Oh, and if you pack the sails before a race, fold the tack, luff head part back in the sailbag so you don't have to drag it all the way to the front. open bag fold stuff back and attach.

 

When it comes to being listened to, you're probably the youngest one, so no-one will pretend to listen to you. Just keep working one doing you're own stuff fast, correct and without making any fuzz and respect will grow. The thing is there are other people on board who have the dedicated task of making sail choices and tactical decisions. The start is something different and you have the opprtunity to steer the boat in the pre-start. (just check which side they prefer to start)

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Second in 30+ knots you might want to think about getting the pole onto the new guy before taking it off the old one. That way you can plant your feet, twist at the waist, and rotate the whole kite across. Then trip the old guy.

 

I am a massive fan of this technique... it gives the guys at the back a lot more control, it gives a more reliable gybe, it's generally a bit faster and it makes the whole process a one man job.

 

I'd put a caveat on it though... do not attempt unless you're a decent size, tried to show a 5'6", 135lb guy how to do it and he simply didn't have the mass/strength to executew. I'm 6'4" and 200lb and from the pics I've seen I don't think LGS is a small boy either.

 

Back to the OP (or at least lastest OP), what way are you running you beaks? Up or down?

 

As to the sail calls, you'll learn that as the youngest on the boat you get ignored pretty often, it comes with most every big boat I have ever sailed on. When on the bow, I let the guys in the back make the choice, I don't tell them my opinion, I simply set what sail they want and do it well.

 

I'd disagree with this one, especially if your calls are being proved out to be correct. My technique when disagreeing with a call is to get the called bag on the rail clipped ready to go, my call in mid deck, clews and head clear (halyard clipped if it's available). It's a none-too-subtle way of getting your suggestion across, it gives them the option, and when they change the call you look like a god cause it happens super quick (you can execute during the hoist).

 

Rgds,

 

remmie

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I guess you're doing end4end single sheets on a 30 footer (not double)?

 

What I like to do, is stand on the windward side of the boom (of course), trip the pole when it's rolling to windward out of the mast so there's no pressure (kite's rolling to windward), and in the split second after that, you trip the outboard end (no pressure in the pole) and twist the boom 90 degrees sideways to make sure the old guy is released. This way it always trips and you have your pole just hanging on the topping lift afterwards.

 

If you're fast enough (with the kite still rolling to windward), the new guy (remember, I'm talking single sheets), should be within grabs reach, you put the old inboard end in the new guy, and as the main is gybed and the kite rolling to the new windward side, you insert the new inboard end in the mast.

 

What I've always learnt in the heavy wind shit: if you don't get it in 1 rolling move, just wait, you're probably not ever getting it back in, and asking the back for more slack on your new guy will only get the boat rolling even more. So just wait another rolling move and click it in. Best to get it in in one move though.

 

Also in that sort of wind the timings' crucial, your own timing, not when the main is coming across. If you feel the boat steering into the gybe just pick your rolling movement, don't wait for the rest, being faster makes it easier for the guys to get the kite across, don't bother about the main.

 

Of course you could always use double sheeting ;-)

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oh and btw Lucas, on what boat did you sail? 44ft so I guess it to be Eclectic? Curious to know who you are!

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Yep Rens, new boat (boats enough) but nothing really regular yet (have you seen the calendar for the summer? Cork is circeled big time, unless you guys need someone for TdF ;) )

 

Wessel, yep I was the guy on the front of Eclectic. And the Ker I sailed on was end4end with double sheets (guys and sheets).

 

What I did: trip pole from mast (jaw was giving me a hard time already), hook new guy under jibsheet, try to get pole across but both jaw and lazy guy were stuck-ish. Three waves and two gusts later the jaw opened and pole could be clicked to the mast. As said before trimmer and helm kept the boat under control perfectly. Yes I was on the windward side, feet steadily planted, jaw-openings pointing upwards, twisting 90 degrees had little use (because I couldn't get the jaw on the far side to open).

 

What was the previous name of Daikin, after racing I couldn't remember it when drinking a beer with the crew... Oh and Moonraker (you know, also a ker11.3) did a t-bone, but the mast stayed on the boat even without a forestay, might be good to know :P

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Getting guy out of jaw with end4end-double-sheeting is often troubled because of the old guy being to slack. (it's far easier to get out when it's firm and stays in the same place). This way it doesn't 'fall' into the jaw, when you move the pole down.

 

Agree with Wessel on the rolling-timing!

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QUOTE(LoopyGirdleSniffer @ Oct 30 2007, 07:33 AM)

Second in 30+ knots you might want to think about getting the pole onto the new guy before taking it off the old one. That way you can plant your feet, twist at the waist, and rotate the whole kite across. Then trip the old guy.

 

 

I am a massive fan of this technique... it gives the guys at the back a lot more control, it gives a more reliable gybe, it's generally a bit faster and it makes the whole process a one man job.

 

I didn't think there was another option - taking the old guy out before putting the new one in means you have a free spinny pole - not something I'd want. In terms of the strength - not such a big deal, I've been doing it since I was 14, although I must admit that it's got easier with age and bulk. By rotating the sail yourself, you help the donkeys at the back out no end and make yourself look better, keeping the kite full and preventing a wrap or the kite posting through the foretriangle.

 

On the tactics debate, I would never expect to call tactics on a big boat, that's for the afterguard - the most I would ever do is call shifts and gusts; there's enough people speaking to the tactician as it is without another voice.

 

If you want your mastman to help out, try this crazy idea: open your mouth and breath out while manipulating your larynx to make the following sounds: Hey buddy, give us a hand with this sail would ya?

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Hey guys thanks for the ideas and your thoughts on how to apporach these situations!

 

Hey FM chill bruss I was aksing of a way to go about this instead of just making a fool of myself in thinking that he should have to help me, maybe a mastmans job was to just pull sails up then chill on the rail. i didn't know.....

 

 

Cheers JRTC

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....taking the old guy out before putting the new one in means you have a free spinny pole - not something I'd want.....

 

 

In 30 knots I'd rather have the spinpole hanging free by the topping, then being attached to the spinnaker itself with the chances of knocking you around as the spinnaker rolls around. When nothing is attached to the pole, it'll only go the way you want and you never have any problems with lots of pressure in your pole.

 

And in light airs, keeping the spinnaker pole attached to the old guy, you could disturb the spinnaker.

 

Best for the trimmers to have it release in a gentle motion, so they can be able to have it free flying during the gybe.

 

What I do in light airs, (single sheets), is when the call to gybe is given, I try to release pressure from the inboard end (with or without rolling, usually not a lot in light airs) by pushing the inboard end free of the eye on the mast. I then already detach the inboard end, and when they steer into the gybe I gradually release pressure of the pole (so the trimmers can keep up and keep the spinnaker full), when all pressure is off the pole I trip the outboard end (as the pole has no use anymore), attach the new guy, rotate and push forward without disturbing the free flying of the spinnaker too much (helping the trimmers keeping it full.

 

Tripping the inboard end early (but keeping it at the same place) gives you just that extra second and helps not disturbing the spinnaker.

 

 

btw, there are hundreds of ways to gybe, this is the one I found works best. I learnt gybing by attaching both spinnakersheets to the pole and then rotating as well, but found this just works better. I even used to tape the middle of the trippline to the middle of the pole, making sure I wouldn't accidently trip the outboard end when putting the pole back in the mast ;-). You learn by doing :)

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Lucas. It sounds like you are having equipment problems and not technique issues. Let your owner know it needs to be checked out.

 

Jolly. Foredeck Monkey has a point. No where did you say that you asked for help. Just assumed it was forth coming. Anyone who's been sailing for any amount of time know that the less weight on the bow and hte more on the rail is good and fast. Does your mastman actually KNOW that you need help? I think that's FM's point. Speak up. However my opinion is that you should be telling the captain pre, or post race. "Hey skipper, I've been having some problems humping the cloth around the boat. Can you please let the mastmonkey know that I'm gonna need a hand, or would you prefer I asked him. I think it'll be boat loads quicker if I had some help. What do you say?"

 

Remmie. No I'm not a small guy, but don't let the pics fool you. Camera and light angles made me look like a monster in a couple of those shots. I"m really not that big! Don't tell the girls though. To them I can remain cockdiesel!! LOL I'm about 5'10 or so, and weight in at 170lbs. Which in my opinion is a little heavy for bow on boats smaller than 35feet. EVERYONE can feel the boat trim change when I get up off the rail. But also I say it doesn't take a massive amount of strength to rotate the kite. You're gonna use your body weight more than your muscles. And the kites going to go that way anyway. You're just giving it some encouragement.

 

Wessel this who rotating the kite thing is for bigger breezes. In lighter airs if you try this the kite will rotate over too quickly and collapse. This is a heavy air technique only! Well not only, but you get the point I think.

 

I forget who mentioned timing and getting it back on the mast the first time. I can't support this enough. If you miss your first opportunity to get the pole on the mast you need to make sure the DRIVER is following the kite. If the boats not under the kite you'll NEVER get the pole on no matter how big and strong you are. In the past I've found my self on occasion yelling "EASE the sheet some. Ease the sheet. EASE THE FUCKING SHEET!" With more experience I find I should have been yelling at the driver. The trimmers job is to keep the kite full. It's the drivers job to keep the boat under the kite. Once the breeze goes forward the clew finds itself on the wrong side of the forestay and no amount of sheet easing is going to help you. Keep the boat square under the kite and you won't have an issue.

 

The guys in the back of the boat can make you look realy good or real bad. No matter how stupid they are be nice to them. And train them how you want it done. You are the point. during a manuver the boat can not be sailed properly until you are done with your job. you can NOT do your job without the help of hte backenders. Train them. Just don't clue them in that you are training them. They get touchy when someone from the front starts telling them what to do.