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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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Slowboat

Swede 55

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How is the enlarged wheel? Is it really practical - for the helmsman not standing behind but sitting aside on the coaming?

 

Enclosed a foto from the nice port of Svendborg/Denmark. Someone had forgotten to release the backstay.

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Midfleet:



The original wheel made by a swedish company named „Wargia“, supplied by Fisksaetra Varv has an outer diameter of 83 cm (nearly 33 inch).



This may appear small by todays standards but leaves space aside and below the wheel for starting the engine at the panel hidden in the helmsmans footwell and for handling the gear lever.



I love steering the boat sitting astride on the leeward coaming, one leg outside, one inside the cockpit.



Is the bigger wheel like aboard „Corsair“ really good – besides the truth that aging men like me prefer the biggest possible wheel?



What does the fraternity of Swede 55 aficionados think?


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I like it. You can sit astride the coaming and the wheel is right there in front of your chest. It really has a great feel.

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Thank you midfleet. I am considering a 39 inch (100 cm) wheel. How big is yours aboard Corsair?

 

Enclosed: can you tighten the mainsheet a little bit?

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Due to its limited beam you always find a place with Swede 55 between modern shortboats. And in case you return from the bar a little latter than planned, you even find your boat.



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In Summer 2013 we met this Molich X near the island of Avernakø (Faaborg, southern Denmark) entering a privat race giving them a bountiful windward start. We though it would be a matter of minutes and became impressed to see the upwind performance of this eagerly sailed boat.



Molich X was designed by Poul Molich from Denmark in 1972/73. He X in the boats name refers to the 10 metre waterline length. The boat is 12 metres long over all, beam 2,55 m, 3,6 t displacement, 30 sqm nominal upwind sailaera. About 50 boats were built until 1991 in different deck versions (Flushdeck to extended cabinroof).



The design is pretty modern with the beam kept from the midship section towards the fairly wide counter. Different to the more elegant skerrycruiser inspired boats as Reimers used to design (with the S 30, S 40 and Swede 55) this seems to provide good righting moment = sail carrying ability upwind.



We found it hard to beat that Molich X upwind in a medium SE breeze towards Aerø. We finally made it approaching Drejø. It took us quite a while to get them behind. At some stage they did even change the helmsman.



It was a lesson how important good (new) sails are - and focused sailors.



Besides that it was nice to see such a pretty, apparently refurbuished boat with teak and mahogany deck.



Foto taken at the northwestern end of Aerø near Haven/Søby as we were slowly gaining metre by metre. Sometimes they tried it going a little deeper and faster, sometimes they played it going high ...



More about Molich X: http://www.molich-x-meter.dk/



and: http://www.molich-x-meter.dk/boatbuild.htm



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Two more fotos of the informal but serious Molich X – Swede 55 race.



First pic shows the Molich X departing from Avernakø. It took us a lot more time than expected to gain height. For a while it seemed uncertain if we would ever make it. The Swede 55 helmsman was desperate but not willing to give up.



./.



Second pic shows situation after two tacks approaching the bay of Haven/Søby at the northwestern end of Aerø. Behind on the right is Als.



Due to its new sails the Molich X was pointing high and going fast as well.



It was a pleasant afternoon. Later we continued our trip to Svendborg, returning to Avernakø and then heading all the way up eastward - sadly without such a handsome competition.


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@ Midfleet,

 

found this Corsair foto in the web.

 

Is this an entirely new mast, or the original Selden spar with the spreaders mounted a little higher?

 

It looks like a slightly longer spar. If so, how long is the mast and what is the mainsail area? Does it work well upwind in breezy conditions (presumably with the original keel/ballast ratio/righting moment)?

 

And is it a furling boom? Hard to determine from that foto.

 

Curious greetings, Zebra

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Zebra -

 

That's the rig it's always had with this owner.

 

You're right, it's a furling boom. I think it went on a few years ago.

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Just four months ago, there used to be summer in the northern hemisphere. Was it the day before yesterday?



Enclosed a shot of the biannual „Schlank & Rank“ toothpickboat race at Fehmarn few jears ago with favourable windy conditions. Due to its weight and waterline length Swede 55 did well.



http://www.svlf.de/veranstaltungen/schlank-rank/schlank-rank-2009/



Would be nice to see pics of Swede 55s sailing far in the south (Capetown), beyond the Atlantic (somewhere in the US) or even Guam.



And it would be interesting to see more of „Corsair“ (US 11, built by Fisksätra Varv in Västervik, Sweden presumably in 1977/78). That boat once berthed in Brooklin/Maine led to the cold moulded replica „Vortex“, true?


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I was sick this weekend, but I will try to measure my wheel - it is a great size, and larger than standard.

 

I had a great last sail alone in 20 knots and snow, and then we hauled Rosina.

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Off Center Harbor (dotcom) just put up a two-part video on sail shape, which is aboard VORTEX, a Swede 55 based in Maine. Informative and nicely done. What a beautiful boat.

 

Here is a link to Part 1. You may have to join to see it.

 

http://www.offcenterharbor.com/videos/shaping-sails-for-performance-part-1-the-control-lines/

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I believe VORTEX is a modified Swede 55. (She is wood composite construction after all.)

 

I read somewhere that Steve and Joel consulted with Knud Reimers on the modifications which I believe added a bit to her beam. They may have added to her sail area too.

 

Maybe Steve will read this thread and enlighten us about her.

 

In any event she sure looks like a great boat.

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VORTEX is a great looking boat.

Except for the cabin top

 

What is wrong with the cabin roof of „Vortex“ apart from the missing step as common at some Reimers and other „S&S“ cruising boats?

The hull has same dimensions as the original (16 x 3 m). Due to the cold moulded construction the boat became generally lighter and thus obtained more lead, a slightly deeper keel fin and more stability. Swede 55 was planned by Reimers for 7.75 metric tons (17,086 lbs) and the GRP-boat turned out to be 8.5 t (18,739 lbs).

Enclosed an old foto of the original Swede 55. Boat No. 2, built 1977, named „Swedeheart“, „Immola“, now „Slanka Frun“, still in Sweden.

Swede 55 is probably the only GRP boat built as replica in wood: Otherwise classy and popular wooden boats were made in GRP in the Sixties and Seventies to extend their life.

Quite delighting to see the Off Center Harbour Clips of „Vortex“. I found disappointing that they are short.

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A travelling friend - being familiar with my Swede 55 mania - sent me this recently taken foto from Ponta Delgada/Azores. A Swede 55 owned by the local sea scouts.



This is boat No. 24, - previously named „Siri Louise“ - built in 1979 by Fisksätra Varv in Västervik/east coast of Sweden. One of the two 55s in Portugal. Another Swede 55 is in Lisbon.




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Compare the boat in the water with the floating condo stored on the hard. The Azores „55“ was called „Peix Agulha“, then „Siri Louise“.



I don’t know who brought the 55 to Ponta Delgada and why she is still there. Would like to read the story.


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Compare the boat in the water with the floating condo stored on the hard. The Azores „55“ was called „Peix Agulha“, then „Siri Louise“.

 

I don’t know who brought the 55 to Ponta Delgada and why she is still there. Would like to read the story.

There is no comparison between the floating lovely and the not so lovely vessel on the hard.

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There are plans for a longer Swede 55 sister. She won’t be the next floating condo as displayed again at the annual condoboatshow-season as the ever more spacious, comfy and faster musthave.



Name of the project is Swede 68, designed by Håkan Södergren. Boats like Helmsman Carrera 38, Cayenne, Cayenne 42 International, a modern 55 sqm boat, the Helmsman/Bosun Queen 55 plus a range of Helmsman Yachts came from his drawing board.


http://www.sodergrengroup.se/en/news



Back to Swede 68: This time the number refers to the boat lenght in feet instead of the nominal sailarea in squaremetres, i. e. as with S 30, S 40, Swede 55, Swede 75 (a Swede 55 Mk II with more sailarea).



Length 68 ft (20,60 m), beam 12’ 6’’ (3,81 m), draft 9’ (2,75 m), displacement 38,800 lbs (17.6 t), ballast 15,563 lbs (7.1 t), upwind sailarea 2,217 sq ft (206 sqm), main 1,378 sqft (128 sqm), jib 839 sqft (79 sqm). 79 US Gal (300 l) fuel and 79 US Gal (300 l) water.



A 55 HP Volvo with Saildrive 130 S shall push the boat into port and stop it there.



As you will note from the fairly detailed data - and solutions like the german cupper sheeting system for the main - the project is thought-out and ready for construction. This being the difference to most renderings around in the virtual world as teasers to create awareness and check response.



Yard chosen is Rosättra at the east coast of Sweden: http://www.linjettsegelbatar.se/?lang=de



More here: http://classicyachts.se/



Apart from the modern U-shaped frames different to the V-shaped Swede 55 underwaterbody and stretched modern appendages the boat will be similar to Swede 55: just some feet added, slightly wider and driven by a lot more canvas.



Now, that’s a longboat. Happy new jear.



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Besides few red hulled boats (and one in light blue) Swede 55 came usually with a while hull and deck. Some were painted dark blue later, like „So Long“. Boat # 5 or 6, built in 1977, sold from Finland to northern Germany in 1996, painted blue then. Now in Denmark (Thuro/Svendborg waters).


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VORTEX is a great looking boat.

Except for the cabin top

Already did...

 

Hi Everybody,

Steve White here-owner of Vortex, 1990 built cold molded Swede 55. I just discovered this forum yesterday and have spent the weekend reading it-and recovering from a touch of flu or something. Fascinating and fun stuff. Amazingly, I don't have many pictures of my boat-I just never carry a camera around with me. But I'll try to figure out how to post them and put a few on. Can anyone give me the short version of how to do it?

Vortex is currently tucked away in her shed here in Maine, waiting for the summer. A couple of years ago I shipped her via Dock Express to St Thomas and kept her in West End, Tortola for the winter. Had a great winter of sailing and a little racing around there and then down to Antigua for the Classic Regatta. Was able to win first in Class B, Spirit of Tradition and first overall in Spirit of Tradition, beating the J Class boats Ranger and Valsheda (but only because they dropped out of the last race when they hit each other beating to windward!)

It has been interesting to read about your modifications for the boat and what has worked. Being a builder I'm always trying something new. I switched to the 2:1 mainsheet system like Slow 6 years ago and it is great! I added a small pair of Harken 16's (I think-maybe I'll go look) to handle the running backstays. I mounted them at the forward end of the aft cabin, so they are just right behind me.

3 years ago I replaced my 1x19 standing rigging with PBO. This was shrouds only. The headstay is rod. Backstay and running backs are Kevlar. The shrouds and 6 turnbuckles I took off weighed 100 lbs. The PBO and 6 turnbuckles I put back on weighed 33 lbs!!! I don't think I would save that much weight by buying a carbon mast. At the same time I decided to put more roach in my mainsail, so I moved the backstay chainplates all the aft on the deck to allow more clearence for the top of the main. I bought new Doyle Stratis main and blade jib. What a performance improvement! I could actually feel the difference of the weight savings and bigger main. I raced in the Opera House Cup that summer and was doing very well, leading ourclass when I happened to look up and saw the stb lower spreader bent up at the end! had to drop the main and withdraw, but didn't lose the rig. I had welded new terminal fittings to the ends of the spreaders and it broke there. I ended up buying new spreaders and end fittings, which is what I should have done in the first place. All has been good ever since.

Anyway-I'm happy to find such a bunch of enthusiasts. Should help make the winter go by.

Cheers

Steve

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Just a couple og weeks to go ...

 

Swede 55 tacking through the River of Travemuende, German seaboard

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Toy still on the hard with two projects still going on. One being the ever leaking front hatch.

Hope to see it dry soon and the boat afloat for another baltic sea season .

 

For the time being a shot of this califonian Swede 55, presumably boat No 17.

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Most level-headed people – especially nonmale ones - think that nobody needs a boat – besides this one which is absolutely meaningful, level-headed and useful to polish and use – soon

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Finally afloat, after the annual spring nigthmare: Bottom jobs, ongoing projects ...

Swede 55 approaching Fehmarnsund Bridge, 18,10 m air draft.

Clearance 22 m - looks different from distance.

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The Swede 55 'Ohana' is part of this year's SD Beer Can race fleet;

 

 

27246383376_ab1c43b919_z_zpsf75mhhv1.jpg

 

Photo from Cynthia Sinclair.

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Perhaps another step in MBD (Mental Boating Disorder) - not related to the current caravanshow exhibits: wide bodied, exaggerated counter and stern, no hips, extreme freeboard, lost contact to essential elements like wind and water, sexless sailing.



Tell me frankly: how sick is it to have such a steering wheel hub cover made? Spending a little time and money to have it done.



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My first ever post, I own the Swede 55 Skye here in Cape Town South Africa. Still a stock standard Swede with a few minor additions, a mast head asym and a 104% jib.

 

Current projects include a new pulpit and a drop down pushpit creating a swim platform for out annual vacation 65 miles North of here. Will post some pics when they are complete.

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Is the Mc Gregor 65 yacht a Mc Donald version of the Swede 55 ?

 

No! They couldn't be more different. The Swede 55 has a classic design heritage dating back to the 20's, and was very well built in Sweden. It is long and narrow, but has a deep hull. The Mc65, not so much...

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Is the Mc Gregor 65 yacht a Mc Donald version of the Swede 55 ?

 

No! They couldn't be more different. The Swede 55 has a classic design heritage dating back to the 20's, and was very well built in Sweden. It is long and narrow, but has a deep hull. The Mc65, not so much...

 

 

 

the Mc65 has a Building for a keel !! [PIX somewhere around here] B)

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Not a Swede 55, but a 22 Square Meter. If a video ever came within inches of making me loose my senses and buy a boat that I wasn't equipped to maintain, this is it. And it only took 1 1/2 minutes.

 

 

Long, lean, close to the water, tiller.

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And then you take a look inside and realise you have to either stick to daysailing or go up in size, as

 

(launch of a SK 95), or

 

(SK 75 sailing), or

 

(SK 75 Bacchant, re-taken from US)

 

and so on.

 

Here you see the inside of Tor's SK55 (from 1917):

From the re-framing in 2011, Cooking!

 

/J

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Not a Swede 55, but a 22 Square Meter. If a video ever came within inches of making me loose my senses and buy a boat that I wasn't equipped to maintain, this is it. And it only took 1 1/2 minutes.

 

 

Long, lean, close to the water, tiller.

 

That's a real beauty, Bull. A jewel of a boat. I can almost feel the tiller from watching it.

 

But it did make me think that varnish might be cited as a co-respondent in divorce proceedings ;)

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Not a Swede 55, but a 22 Square Meter. If a video ever came within inches of making me loose my senses and buy a boat that I wasn't equipped to maintain, this is it. And it only took 1 1/2 minutes.

 

 

Long, lean, close to the water, tiller.

 

 

 

Smashing. This spoon bow seems to be made for spectators. Sailing as a performing art?

 

Perhaps nicer than a Swede 55. It is always good to consider the origin.

 

./.

 

But - few to zero amenities (no head, shower, sufficient height for a standing person below deck for getting the pants off or on, no cooking facilities, some, not just two bunks) which you get if the concept is extended to 52 slightly modernized feet: Just a little more beam, a little more freeboard, extended coachroof with the typical Reimers step near the companionway: Swede 55 ...

 

That was the reason why swedish sailors having true wooden sqm boats looked for something more comfortable in the seventies. This search led to the Reimers designed S30, S40 and Swede 55.

 

Just a little ... it needs a sense for aestetic balance, tradition, style for this dangerous "just a little".

 

 

 

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Hi all Swede 55 interested sailors. I'm new to this forum and little about myself:

Sailing a true SK55 skerrycruiser in Stockholm, Sweden since 1981 with two more owners.

Name is La Liberté, with nickname Libban.

Built 1934 at Kungsörs Shipyard in Kungsör, Sweden.

Designed by famous Erik Salander.

Length: 16,3 meter, width 2,53 meter.

Link to Video:

 

For the future I'm very interested to sail a Swede 55, long fast and need less woodwork and painting.

Best regards

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16,30 m finest Honduras Mahagony, nice ...

 

As can be seen from this shot taken in August 16 approaching Denmark from the german seaboard, this design from 1975, manufactured 1979, just needs to be kept, polished, maintained with occasional hardware replacements and sailed as ever.

 

It even got some wood - located almost maintenance free below deck and in the centre cockpit.

 

Happy new year to all Swede 55 maniacs.

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It's a deturbulator. Forms an anti vortex that propogates forward along the hull inside the boundary zone and reduces drag.

 

Also keeps a trailing sheet from getting in the gap and jamming shit up.

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Thanks, that was my guess and it seems reasonable. Amazing that such small plate can make a difference. We must also remember that the design of keel and rudder involved Professor Sven-Olof Ridder, the aerodynamic/hydrodynamic expert at KTH (Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm). Ridder was friend and partner with Lars "Lasse" Bergström and Harald Undén. These three designed the Windex and (Ridder & Bergström) was running some business in Sarasota, Florida. However all three are dead now. I met Harald Undén a couple of times, since his son is my friend.

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I found a builders plate in the hatch. It says:

"Fisksätra

FIP 1203

18"

FIP does it stand for Fisksätra ....something..?

1203 could be the shipsyards build number independent of class, Internal identification number.

18 is probably Swede 55 hull number/Sails number. I have other strong indications that this hull is probably S-18.

BuildersPlate

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I have never seen such a builders plate on my boat. Was that label underneath the garage for the sliding hatch (main companionway)?

 

Your boat seems to be No 18, probably built 1978, first name „Columella II“ berthed in Uppsala, then named „So Long“ berthed Resarö/Stockholm, now named „Skuggfaxe“ I guess.

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Interesting.

Looking forward to the season now - flying swedish colours with the 130 sqm Spinnaker.

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Yeah, there are plenty of S30 for sale in Sweden. From €10' and up. Old farts. Gelcoat us cracking up.

Then there are some few S40. At least one is ... vrry nice. But he wants to much.

And some Swede 55.

 

And sometimes a Swede 38 which is something compuetely different.

 

Then there are the originals, SK55. One is from 1908 I think. Looks good, indeed. But no head. Just sayin'.

 

/J

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Interesting.

Looking forward to the season now - flying swedish colours with the 130 sqm Spinnaker.

I used the same colors for my kites aboard Swede55 hull 34. Seemed like the perfect colors for the vessel. Wish I had a picture to share, but it was before electronic pictures were common.

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Yeah, there are plenty of S30 for sale in Sweden. From 10' and up. Old farts. Gelcoat us cracking up.

Then there are some few S40. At least one is ... vrry nice. But he wants to much.

And some Swede 55.

 

And sometimes a Swede 38 which is something compuetely different.

 

Then there are the originals, SK55. One is from 1908 I think. Looks good, indeed. But no head. Just sayin'.

 

/J

Do you know if these are any good in IRC ? A well prepared Aphrodite 101 seems to be able to do OK, slender and light seems to be rated fairly, may be one of those could be a sound start to do rorc races on a relatively tight budget.

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Yeah, there are plenty of S30 for sale in Sweden. From €10' and up. Old farts. Gelcoat us cracking up.

Then there are some few S40. At least one is ... vrry nice. But he wants to much.

And some Swede 55.

 

And sometimes a Swede 38 which is something compuetely different.

 

Then there are the originals, SK55. One is from 1908 I think. Looks good, indeed. But no head. Just sayin'.

 

/J

 

Here ya go, only $12k:

 

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1974/Harry-Becker-Lotus-Scandinavia-3032147/Lake-Champlain/NY/United-States#.WLX7JRIrLVo

 

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Yeah, there are plenty of S30 for sale in Sweden. From 10' and up. Old farts. Gelcoat us cracking up.

Then there are some few S40. At least one is ... vrry nice. But he wants to much.

And some Swede 55.

And sometimes a Swede 38 which is something compuetely different.

Then there are the originals, SK55. One is from 1908 I think. Looks good, indeed. But no head. Just sayin'.

/J

Do you know if these are any good in IRC ? A well prepared Aphrodite 101 seems to be able to do OK, slender and light seems to be rated fairly, may be one of those could be a sound start to do rorc races on a relatively tight budget.

Pano,

 

The S30 is quite common. Some in a good shape, some not. These are old boats. And, as said, the gelcoat is cracking up on many.

The S40 is another story. Not as old. Rather few, price is often considerably higher - I have seen asked prices in the range of $100'.

Also S55 is highly priced.

 

As the basic concept is a narrow, long keeler, with small to moderate SA, "mechanically" they will last for ever. Sail is fun w7ith these, living on board .... not so much.

 

The 101 is a different concept. Don't mix these just because both are narrow and look long.

 

Some seems to think eg the SK and older R-boats are similar just because the look similar at a first glance. R-boats are lead mines, whereas SK are light. And so on.

 

/J

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Yeah, there are plenty of S30 for sale in Sweden. From 10' and up. Old farts. Gelcoat us cracking up.

Then there are some few S40. At least one is ... vrry nice. But he wants to much.

And some Swede 55.

And sometimes a Swede 38 which is something compuetely different.

Then there are the originals, SK55. One is from 1908 I think. Looks good, indeed. But no head. Just sayin'.

/J

Do you know if these are any good in IRC ? A well prepared Aphrodite 101 seems to be able to do OK, slender and light seems to be rated fairly, may be one of those could be a sound start to do rorc races on a relatively tight budget.

Pano,

 

The S30 is quite common. Some in a good shape, some not. These are old boats. And, as said, the gelcoat is cracking up on many.

The S40 is another story. Not as old. Rather few, price is often considerably higher - I have seen asked prices in the range of $100'.

Also S55 is highly priced.

 

As the basic concept is a narrow, long keeler, with small to moderate SA, "mechanically" they will last for ever. Sail is fun w7ith these, living on board .... not so much.

 

The 101 is a different concept. Don't mix these just because both are narrow and look long.

 

Some seems to think eg the SK and older R-boats are similar just because the look similar at a first glance. R-boats are lead mines, whereas SK are light. And so on.

 

/J

 

 

Thanks,

 

I understand that the Aphrodite is different but here we don't have skerry cruisers we know little about them, so I fall back to the nearest that we have. I don't have a clue how well one could do, so I would like to have an idea if these stand a chance of doing reasonably well in IRC. An old Nicholson 33 has won the Fastnet, so preparing an older boat can make sense in some instances.

With such a small sail area, a motivated crew of 4 could possibly sail the boat to its potential even on a long race.

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Thanks,

I understand that the Aphrodite is different but here we don't have skerry cruisers we know little about them, so I fall back to the nearest that we have. I don't have a clue how well one could do, so I would like to have an idea if these stand a chance of doing reasonably well in IRC. An old Nicholson 33 has won the Fastnet, so preparing an older boat can make sense in some instances.

With such a small sail area, a motivated crew of 4 could possibly sail the boat to its potential even on a long race.

 

 

OK, let's leave the 101 out of this - even if it is a nice boat.

 

As said, the SK are light. They sail well also in stronger winds (we have our share) and are comparably fast - due to their length. In most racing rules you pay a (high) price for length. Usually it is very difficult to beat the others with an SK in a handicap race (with the exclusion for those that are like PHRF).

In the 1970-ies many here belivied that SK and similar could outsail the fat RORC and others. In sailed time, if beating, yes. Otherwise, no.

 

But the sailing is incredible - low freeboards get you close to water, The larger boats, as SK55, are long, really long (as one designer said 100 years ago: length is running) which gives a feeling of a large boat at the same time as you can touch the water. If the boat is made right then you handle the tiller with a fingertip. The combination is ... very special.

 

As I have pointed out earlier, comfort is yet another thing. Narrow and low hulls does not give much room for exceeses,

 

In a bit of a summary: as a daysailer these are fantastic, don't win todays races and comfort is very limited.

 

Nicholsson 33 is a fine boat for its time, winning today's Fastnet is unexpected. But we see this now and then, an old design wins. Once I was in race with little wind and some rather random currents - the winner was a small 3 knot shitbox where the owner and only crew was reading the newspaper. Painful! (and the newpaper was not worth reading ...)

 

/J

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Thanks for the answer.

I asked the question because there are old boats that do well once prepared. In IRC, a 1968 plywood boat was winning everything during the noughties in South Brittany.

 

This Nicholson 33 has won so many races that you can't attribute their wins to luck. Google iromiguy if not convinced.

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Thanks for the answer.

I asked the question because there are old boats that do well once prepared. In IRC, a 1968 plywood boat was winning everything during the noughties in South Brittany.

This Nicholson 33 has won so many races that you can't attribute their wins to luck. Google iromiguy if not convinced.

Pano, I did write "unexpected" regarding the Nic 33. I do not have all facts at hand, I guess that with the right respite rule and also right weather a skilled crew can achieve wonders.

At the same time there has been a tremendous development of sailing boats since the design of the Nic 33. Without going too deep my guess is that todays boats are 20-25% faster than those from the era of the Nic 33.

That is of course boat speed which not always has so much to do with winning races.

 

Going back to the basic issue, are long and narrow boats always fast - the answer is of course no. In fact, it is in some few cases, but then they can be very fast. It all depends on so many factors. The SK boats were developed for sailing in an archipelago, they have high masts to be able to capture the wind above the islands - thus rather specific archipelago.

(BTW the 101 is designed for another archipelago ... )

 

In a way the dance may have some differentiating attributes, but the core is the same - for all racing.

 

/J

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Newer boats are indeed faster. When you race in a corrected time race, what really matter is to be able to sail to your TCC. IME Some older boats manage to do so in irc. Boat width and sail area is penalised. I can't find a skerry style boat TCC online, so I am curious.

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Panoramics, I can contribute with six numbers regarding Swede 55



1. Yardstick due to German Sailing Association (DSV) 89


2. Scandicap due to Sailing Association of Finland ‘87 without/ with Spinnaker 10,20/10,95


3. Lidingö Yardstick (LYS) Swedish Sailing Association April 97 1,27


4. TCF - Channel Handicap System C.H.S. (measured 1988) 1.129


5. KLR German Classics Association Time Correction factor) 149


6 PHRF (for american Swede 55 „Excalibur“) 81,0



Most factors are based on yard or design numbers which do not meet reality regarding weight and draft. Swede 55 is heavier and floats deeper than planned.



These factors are prohibitive and Swede 55 needs a long course with ideal conditions, plus able sailors to overcome, make it and and win.


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Thanks Zebra, IRC is based on CHS,since 1988 the formula has changed but that sounds tough. If it is in the right ballpark, 1.129 means competing in real time with a Sun fast 52. There is one at 1.124 (Hepatitis VI).

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Well, LYS is a simple respite system where originally the Folkboat had 1.0 A Swede 55 is then 27% faster. Ooooh, that is really fast, isn't it?

No, it isn't as a folkboat (celebrates 75 year 2017) is very very slow.

 

A standard First 36.7 (alu mast aso) has LYS 1.28. That is today not considered as a fast boat, new 35 ft boats would easily get LYS > 1.30, maybe 1.35.

LYS has been replaced by another handicap system, SRS, which is based on measurements (LYS was based on race results and thus included crew competence and other things).

 

So, Swede 55 is not very fast.

 

If you want to see some more pics, there is one for sale

https://www.blocket.se/stockholm/Swede_55_1978_mycket_nytt_65936193.htm?ca=11&w=3

 

For this the asking price is about €90'.

 

/J

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The Swede55 might not be fast by today's standards, but we found it to be a wonderful vessel for casual cruising by one married couple.

Our new custom vessel is to a great extent based on our experience with our old Swede55. Long, narrow and light (but more sail area.)

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Well, LYS is a simple respite system where originally the Folkboat had 1.0 A Swede 55 is then 27% faster. Ooooh, that is really fast, isn't it?

No, it isn't as a folkboat (celebrates 75 year 2017) is very very slow.

 

A standard First 36.7 (alu mast aso) has LYS 1.28. That is today not considered as a fast boat, new 35 ft boats would easily get LYS > 1.30, maybe 1.35.

LYS has been replaced by another handicap system, SRS, which is based on measurements (LYS was based on race results and thus included crew competence and other things).

 

So, Swede 55 is not very fast.

 

If you want to see some more pics, there is one for sale

https://www.blocket.se/stockholm/Swede_55_1978_mycket_nytt_65936193.htm?ca=11&w=3

 

For this the asking price is about €90'.

 

/J

 

There is a discrepancy between IRC and LYS.

 

In IRC folkboats seem to measure at about 0.8. 0.8*1.27 = 1.022 which means that if the rules were equivalent, the first 36.7 would rate at 1.022 in IRC, in reality they seem to rate around 1.00

 

I find it hard to believe that the Swede isn't faster than a 36.7.

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The Swede55 might not be fast by today's standards, but we found it to be a wonderful vessel for casual cruising by one married couple.

Our new custom vessel is to a great extent based on our experience with our old Swede55. Long, narrow and light (but more sail area.)

Kim, agree 100%. If speed was everything we wouldn't sail.

Sailing experience in a SK (as Swede 55) is something special. That is the attraction.

 

/J

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There is a discrepancy between IRC and LYS.

 

In IRC folkboats seem to measure at about 0.8. 0.8*1.27 = 1.022 which means that if the rules were equivalent, the first 36.7 would rate at 1.022 in IRC, in reality they seem to rate around 1.00

 

I find it hard to believe that the Swede isn't faster than a 36.7.

Oh well, Pano. What did I say about LYS? It is a statistical result which includes all - crew, weather, weekday , - all!

 

Still, I think a 36.7 would beat a Swede 55 in any ordinary race. That is the developement I mentioned earlier.

Things have changed during the last 100 years.

 

/J

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Hi Jaramaz

 

From my experience racing against both 36.7 and the Swede 55 I would say that the Swede 55 is faster in most cases if the waves aren't to big and as long as both boats have good sails and crew. Nowadays the Swede 55 has the same rating as the 40.7 in Sweden, but I do believe that the 40.7 is a few % faster in reality. The latest version of the Swede 55 called Swede 52 is much faster and is about as fast as an J/120. But I'm sorry to say that only one Swede 52 has been built.

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Hi Karel,

 

The 40.7 is much faster than the 36.7, I can believe that a swede 55 is nearly as fast. If you know of any swede 30 or swede 55 that has been recently measured in IRC, I would be interested.

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The Swede55 might not be fast by today's standards, but we found it to be a wonderful vessel for casual cruising by one married couple.

Our new custom vessel is to a great extent based on our experience with our old Swede55. Long, narrow and light (but more sail area.)

 

Fast is relative, depends what you compare it to. Boat with the same sail area, weight, LWL, price, able to win in IRC etc...

 

The consensus here seems to be that they can't win in IRC but nobody seems to know what they would rate. I would want to know to the TCC of one, knowing that an aphrodite 101 can do OK, I am open minded.

For me a swede 30 a few years down the line could be nice assuming that it isn't hopeless in IRC, a "sailor's boat" that can be handed by 2, big enough to take the family out for a few days and seaworthy enough to do a bit of RORC stuff, that ticks a lot of my boxes.

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Hi Jaramaz

 

From my experience racing against both 36.7 and the Swede 55 I would say that the Swede 55 is faster in most cases if the waves aren't to big and as long as both boats have good sails and crew. Nowadays the Swede 55 has the same rating as the 40.7 in Sweden, but I do believe that the 40.7 is a few % faster in reality. The latest version of the Swede 55 called Swede 52 is much faster and is about as fast as an J/120. But I'm sorry to say that only one Swede 52 has been built.

 

Well, Kåre, I am quoting the latest LYS table (around 2010, I think). That is the statistical outcome, which - as stated - inludes everything.

You are then saying that in some conditions the outcome could be reversed - could very well be as these two boats only differ 0.01, a precision the LYS table never had.

 

Here you are missing the point I made to explain to Pano that the Swede 55 is not as fast as he imaged. He is now slowly getting there :).

 

If you both are more happy with comparing with 40.7 - ok, do that. It doesn't really matter.

 

Then, Kåre, you point at the new rating system in Sweden, SRS, and claim 40.7 has the same rating as Swede 55. That is not fully correct, 40.7 rates 1.103 with standard keel whereas Swede55 rates 1.101. The SRS is a system based on boat size taken at several measurement points. That does not say how fast the boat is - it is wellknown that all such systems work reasonably well for contemporary boats but older boats tend to get too high rating. You have probably seen the discussion at Blur :).

 

 

BTW ... I have also raced against both 36.7 (carbon mast, however) and Swede 55. My conclusion is not the same as yours ... could be the carbon. These individual experiences does not have really the same value as statistical data, however.

 

/J

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We race my Swede 55 here on Lake Champlain, and have had some success. It really depends on the conditions. Heavy wind, downwind and we fly. I have many videos showing us first around the mark on a long downwind leg - beating J-122, J-111, 36.7's, J-109's, etc. We have won our fair share of races...

 

In reality we are just a bit slower on our light wind lake than the J-109, and generally can beat the 36.7 often boat for boat. This is short course, W/L light wind racing - not the strongest for the Swede. Like I said earlier - the Swede can be very fast, and sometimes slow against modern race boats. Anything with a reach or downwind and we are gone - even against very fast modern boats. Upwind in light air can be very challenging. Changing directions and getting back up to speed is challenging, so sometimes your options are limited.

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Hi Jaramaz

 

From my experience racing against both 36.7 and the Swede 55 I would say that the Swede 55 is faster in most cases if the waves aren't to big and as long as both boats have good sails and crew. Nowadays the Swede 55 has the same rating as the 40.7 in Sweden, but I do believe that the 40.7 is a few % faster in reality. The latest version of the Swede 55 called Swede 52 is much faster and is about as fast as an J/120. But I'm sorry to say that only one Swede 52 has been built.

Well, Kåre, I am quoting the latest LYS table (around 2010, I think). That is the statistical outcome, which - as stated - inludes everything.

You are then saying that in some conditions the outcome could be reversed - could very well be as these two boats only differ 0.01, a precision the LYS table never had.

 

Here you are missing the point I made to explain to Pano that the Swede 55 is not as fast as he imaged. He is now slowly getting there :).

 

If you both are more happy with comparing with 40.7 - ok, do that. It doesn't really matter.

 

Then, Kåre, you point at the new rating system in Sweden, SRS, and claim 40.7 has the same rating as Swede 55. That is not fully correct, 40.7 rates 1.103 with standard keel whereas Swede55 rates 1.101. The SRS is a system based on boat size taken at several measurement points. That does not say how fast the boat is - it is wellknown that all such systems work reasonably well for contemporary boats but older boats tend to get too high rating. You have probably seen the discussion at Blur :).

 

 

BTW ... I have also raced against both 36.7 (carbon mast, however) and Swede 55. My conclusion is not the same as yours ... could be the carbon. These individual experiences does not have really the same value as statistical data, however.

 

/J

 

Hi Jaramaz

 

The difference between 1.101 and 1.103 in SRS is 6s per hour or about 1s per mile. But I do agree with you that the SRS rating is not favorable for the Swede 55 and that in most conditions the 40.7 is definitely a faster boat. According to me the LYS rating was on the low side for the Swede 55 and you will probably disagree with me on that.

 

I guess the First 36.7 you are talking about is TeamPro4u, the reigning European Champion and World bronze medalist in ORCi and this is a quite modified 36.7 and has the lowest ORC rating of all registered 36.7. ORCi = 614. I do understand that it's less fun to race the boat now with a unfavorable rating.

 

The old LYS rating was not a purely statistical based system. LYS rating was set by a committee looking at statistics and then setting the rating base on their own thoughts of the performance of the boat. SRS is based on a simplified VPP formula and then the rating can be adjusted by a committee if rating from the formula is considered not be correct.

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I kept researching how well a skerry style boat could do in IRC and finally found a data point. In 2015 a Wasa 55 did well during the fastnet race. Overall, they finished 13 out of 296 boats and their TCC was 1.013. So here we go, I was too high with my 1.022 guestimate assuming that the Swede 55 has similar performances.

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Slowboat, do you race in PHRF or IRC?

We race PHRF, and our rating has moved between 72 and 85

 

Thanks

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I kept researching how well a skerry style boat could do in IRC and finally found a data point. In 2015 a Wasa 55 did well during the fastnet race. Overall, they finished 13 out of 296 boats and their TCC was 1.013. So here we go, I was too high with my 1.022 guestimate assuming that the Swede 55 has similar performances.

Different boats with just sone similarities. Swede 55 is about 5% faster than Wasa 55. Still, Wasa 55 is considered fast, some crews are really entusiastic.

 

Kåre: I do agree with you that the old LYS was on the low side for the Swede 55. That's what happens in a statistically based handicap when boat, crew, sails ... gets old. Which means it is possible to take an old such boat, put new sails, equipment & crew and win some few races - until the handicap has been adjusted.

 

/J

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I kept researching how well a skerry style boat could do in IRC and finally found a data point. In 2015 a Wasa 55 did well during the fastnet race. Overall, they finished 13 out of 296 boats and their TCC was 1.013. So here we go, I was too high with my 1.022 guestimate assuming that the Swede 55 has similar performances.

Different boats with just sone similarities. Swede 55 is about 5% faster than Wasa 55. Still, Wasa 55 is considered fast, some crews are really entusiastic.

 

Kåre: I do agree with you that the old LYS was on the low side for the Swede 55. That's what happens in a statistically based handicap when boat, crew, sails ... gets old. Which means it is possible to take an old such boat, put new sails, equipment & crew and win some few races - until the handicap has been adjusted.

 

/J

 

If the Swede 55 is actually 5% faster than the Wasa, it is an IRC rule beater. I can't see one having a TCC of 1.064

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bild-22.jpg

A little bit of topic but my brother is now gonna put our family boat since 35 years for sale. It's a 40*9’ special version of a Lady Helmsman. The boat home harbor is in Stockholm.

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If the Swede 55 is actually 5% faster than the Wasa, it is an IRC rule beater. I can't see one having a TCC of 1.064

So any boat faster than a Wasa 55 is a IRC rule beater - cheater? Or does it have to have the number 55 to be that? Maybe a lower number is better as TP 52?

 

Pano, come on.

 

/J

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If the Swede 55 is actually 5% faster than the Wasa, it is an IRC rule beater. I can't see one having a TCC of 1.064

So any boat faster than a Wasa 55 is a IRC rule beater - cheater? Or does it have to have the number 55 to be that? Maybe a lower number is better as TP 52?

 

Pano, come on.

 

/J

 

 

5% faster is a lot. The Wasa seems to do at least OK in IRC (you can't finish well the Fastnet with a slow boat, too much competition, too long to be lucky). The Wasa and the Swede are close enough in term of characteristics thus I can't see that a Swede TCC will be massively higher than for a Wasa, may be a bit higher (say 1% max) but not 5%. Finally I can't see how the Swede could possibly be 5% faster than the Wasa as the wasa is obviously not a dog.

 

I don't know if you've raced IRC but if you have, you know that between a 1.064 boat and 1.013 one, there is a massive difference in speed.

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Yes, Pano, the W55 and Swede 55 are identical, just see these figures

 

LOA Lwl B W SA
Wasa 55 13.5 10.7 2.55 5.5 33 + 22
Swede 55 16 11.8 3 7.5 43 + 31

 

Just to lay it out to you: sqrt(11.8/10.7) = 1.05. I hope this helps.

 

Never, ever, jump to conclusions. Base your conclusions on facts.

 

 

//J

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OK, my wrong, I hadn't realised that the the Swede wasn't a true 55m2 boat. Nevertheless as you seem so strong on facts, give me the TCC of the Swede in IRC and we will be able to determine if it stands a chance to do well or not. Absolute speed is meaningless, what you need to know is if the boat can be sailed to its handicap.

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