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Ragtime

LBYC's 70's Regatta - Owner of Ragtime ejected from Long Beach

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Ragtime was invited (?) to race the 70's Sled event, and I, owner of Ragtime, helped get other boats involved. They now have 7 entries, plus us. They denied us entry yesterday by phone, saying we are 65' long, not a 70' sled, and we were not actually "invited".

 

This morning, I went to attend the Skipper's Meeting. The PRO, Bobby Frazier, Rear Commodore of LBYC, saw me and asked if we were racing. I told him we were there to attend the Skipper's Meeting. His response was "look, we told you yesterday, you're not racing. Are you a member of this yacht club?" I said no. He then said loudly " Leave. Leave now." I said I thought we should see what happened at the skipper's meeting. He fetched the club manager and asked that I be ejected from the club premises. Literally. The Club Manager asked that I move to the front of the club, and after discussion, called their Commodore and asked me to let him air out the situation. The manager complemented me for being as level headed as I was, and when I was explaining what had happened said with surprise "The Ragtime? The one with the model in the hallway?" and agreed that things did not reflect well on LBYC at that moment.

 

The Commodore of LBYC, Conrad Banks, called me a few minutes after I was removed to deliver the news that Ragtime was in fact disinvited. He said directly that Mike Campbell and Peligroso were sponsoring the event, and what they wanted was going to happen. When I questioned the wisdom of this, he said "look, I'm just the messenger. I've got other things to attend to this morning. They don't want you to race."

 

Humourously, he invited me and my crew to come by for the evening cocktail party after the race...I told him that sounded pretty distasteful, given the situation, and he allowed that he understood my outlook.

 

It is distressing to see one boat dictating who and what will race, under the guise of yacht club regatta sponsorship. Personally, I think LBYC's status should be reviewed by US Sailing. Our exclusion is particularly annoying because we rushed out of the yard this week in order to get there. I had spoken with their race coordinator, Alex, last week to tell him we were coming, and see who else was attending, and Alex gave me the details about med mooring on the long dock, etc.

 

The prospect of "Invitational" events is bad for sailing. In this case, it's cowardly, and in general, it's exclusionary. It is not what will keep more people involved in the sport. The logical comeback is for more clubs to become selective about who can race in retaliation.

 

Ragtime is in a rare position among sleds. She was the first. To say she's not a sled is a joke in any conversation. The races are being run under Americap, not boat for boat, so the "70" thing is corrected for. We shadowed the fleet to weather today, and then downwind, and defeated any argument that we aren't able to race with the other sleds boat for boat. Pretty good for a 42 year old boat.

 

The actions taken by LBYC, and by Peligroso and its owners, aren't Cornithian, and don't respect the sport or its history. The motivation, best as we can tell, is Peligroso does not want to race us in Transpac, or ID 48's, or TP 52's, so her way out is to try and create a class without them - and without us. Hopefully, by airing this issue, their goals will be thwarted.

 

There are two ironies about this situation. First, every skipper walked by LBYC's beautiful half model of Ragtime on the way to the skipper meeting. Second, Ragtime was bought out of New Zealand and moved to the USA after being outlawed for being too fast down under - and now, history repeats itself.

 

In retrospect, I'm glad they actually threw me out of the yacht club. It put a nice dot on the exclamation point of how poorly this was handled.

 

Chris Welsh

Ragtime

USA 7960

 

Here are the original emails:

(Mark Callahan is the paid skipper on Peligroso)

 

From: CallahanYachting@aol.com

Date: August 17, 2006 8:58:10 AM PDT

To: ragtime@chriswelsh.com

Subject: Re: Sled Regattas AGAIN

 

Good Morning,

 

Thankyou for your fast and positive reply. Also thankyou for the forwarding of the email. I will be in contact again very soon.

 

Thankyou,

 

Mark Callahan - Callahan Yachting

Long Beach Ca

cell. 619 - 990 2114

fax. 562 - 438 7686

skype. mark.callahan

CallahanYachting@aol.com

 

 

In a message dated 8/17/2006 8:39:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ragtime@chriswelsh.com writes:

Ragtime is in - thanks!

 

I cc'd Tim Hogan/Westerly and Don Ayres for forward to Doug Ayres/Skylark.

 

Chris Welsh

Ragtime

USA 7960

 

Hi there Chris,

 

I am writing to you, as to all the Sled (ULDB 70) owners, with the proposal of a new regatta. One just for Sled owners.

 

For some time now the owners that I work for, Mr. M.Campbell and Mr. D.Williams have talked of how good it would be to have a regatta held and run just for the SLEDS. Here in Long Beach where there was once great regattas with fast fun sailing on the ULDB 70 SLEDS.

 

Following some discussions of recent with LBYC committee it is a go. The Long Beach Yacht Club will provide staff, equipment and a venue from which to run a regatta on the last weekend of October.

 

Regatta Details

Date/s - October, Sat 28th + Sun 29th.

Location - Long Beach.

Racing - Saturday 3 races + Sunday 2 races.

Entry - $250 donation to the LBYC Junior Sailing Foundation.

Ratings - ORR (Americap). If a yacht does not have an ORR rating,

a suitable rating factor can be determined.

Events - Saturday, hors d'oeuvres party ($10/person), no host bar.

- Sunday, prize giving.

Docking - provided courtesy of LBYC.

 

This could be the start of a rejuvenation for the sled fleet racing and what will surely be a fantastic regatta for Sled owners.

 

Please email or call with your interest for participating in this event.

 

Thankyou,

 

Mark Callahan

Long Beach Ca

cell. 619 - 990 2114

fax. 562 - 438 7686

skype. mark.callahan

CallahanYachting@aol.com

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They denied us entry yesterday by phone, saying we are 65' long, not a 70' sled, and we were not actually "invited".

 

None of the SoCal sleds are actually 70'--- The 70 # came from an IOR max rating of 70---- hmmmmmmmmmm

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fuckin wankers

 

might want to take those email addresses out of the original post, some of the more hot headed may take other action....:lol:

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fuckin wankers

 

might want to take those email addresses out of the original post, some of the more hot headed may take other action....:lol:

 

From the information I have been able to gather today from Chris and others I am of the opinion that LBYC will be issuing a formal apology to Mr. Welsh (at least I hope so). I spoke with Chris at length about the situation this afternoon and he was calm, cool and amazingly collected considering what just happened to him...

 

My Dad was in politics and diplomacy for decades and even I know that while terrible things are said on the campaign trail to the hill or the house, once there the elected officials owe one another the utmost courtesy and respect once they are a member of "the club". By owning Ragtime, possibly the most legenday sled of all time, Chris is due at a minimum the respect that is due to the yacht itself.

 

I also know Mark Callahan personally and I don't ever think it was ever Mark's intention to do anything but promote an event for Long Beach Yacht Club that involved sleds. I invite Mark or Mike Campbell to post a reply here that might help rectify the situation and provide an explanation for what happened today at the club. Perhaps the club itself might post a reply or at a minimum a personal letter of regret (public or not) to Chris Welsh for what happened today in Long Beach if what has been reported is true...

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I've never liked LBYC - there is always some lingering bad vibe. This baby is going on the front page!

 

I would get 1) Campbell's story, 2) LBYC's story and 3) verify Welsh's story before I did that: it's like what the police do (tying someone down to a story) so they can't change "the facts" when the story & the facts don't gibe (what a great pun, eh?) w/each other.

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Wow, I am pretty amazed at this whole thing. I took over the sled organization after Leweck and Redler. It was sad during my years that the sled fleet basically moved to the Great Lakes. It was so exhilerating when we had 10-15 sleds on the line at Big Boat or Cal Cup (I crewed on Taxi Dancer in those days) I have been happy to see a bit of a revival in So Cal of sled racing. I have to say that Mike Campbell has always been a very corinthian sailor, gentleman, and a great asset to yacht racing so I can't believe that he really had any thing to do with this. I would think that participation in this event would be the biggest goal of a race organizer. I have had a

bad experience with LBYC when they refused me entry into the club (I was a board member at SBYC at the time), I was doing the

Golison Regatta and they would not let me in to use the bathroom. There was actually a guard at the door. What happened to reciprocity and supporting regattas whether it is your event or not? There was some bad juju at LBYC which seems to be continuing so that is sad. Ragtime is the ultimate original sled along with Merlin. If they are not using the original sled configuration rules/ratings why keep a historic boat out of it. And yes, not all "sleds" are 70 feet long. I hope LBYC steps up to the plate on this.

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Gee, I wonder why the fleet isn't bigger ?

 

Whoever is responsibe for such a dumbass move deserves a little mockery - that is the weakest thing I've ever heard an RC pull - I'm having trouble believeing it. Was there some particular rating band PUBLISHED that they were targeting that Rags dosen't hit ? Because even if that IS the case, it's still a chump call of a very high order.

 

Paul Elvstrom's famous line comes to mind regarding somebody winning this way.

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Ragtime was invited (?) to race the 70's Sled event, and I, owner of Ragtime, helped get other boats involved. They now have 7 entries, plus us. They denied us entry yesterday by phone, saying we are 65' long, not a 70' sled, and we were not actually "invited".

 

This morning, I went to attend the Skipper's Meeting. The PRO, Bobby Frazier, Rear Commodore of LBYC, saw me and asked if we were racing. I told him we were there to attend the Skipper's Meeting. His response was "look, we told you yesterday, you're not racing. Are you a member of this yacht club?" I said no. He then said loudly " Leave. Leave now." I said I thought we should see what happened at the skipper's meeting. He fetched the club manager and asked that I be ejected from the club premises. Literally. The Club Manager asked that I move to the front of the club, and after discussion, called their Commodore and asked me to let him air out the situation. The manager complemented me for being as level headed as I was, and when I was explaining what had happened said with surprise "The Ragtime? The one with the model in the hallway?" and agreed that things did not reflect well on LBYC at that moment.

 

The Commodore of LBYC, Conrad Banks, called me a few minutes after I was removed to deliver the news that Ragtime was in fact disinvited. He said directly that Mike Campbell and Peligroso were sponsoring the event, and what they wanted was going to happen. When I questioned the wisdom of this, he said "look, I'm just the messenger. I've got other things to attend to this morning. They don't want you to race."

 

Humourously, he invited me and my crew to come by for the evening cocktail party after the race...I told him that sounded pretty distasteful, given the situation, and he allowed that he understood my outlook.

 

It is distressing to see one boat dictating who and what will race, under the guise of yacht club regatta sponsorship. Personally, I think LBYC's status should be reviewed by US Sailing. Our exclusion is particularly annoying because we rushed out of the yard this week in order to get there. I had spoken with their race coordinator, Alex, last week to tell him we were coming, and see who else was attending, and Alex gave me the details about med mooring on the long dock, etc.

 

The prospect of "Invitational" events is bad for sailing. In this case, it's cowardly, and in general, it's exclusionary. It is not what will keep more people involved in the sport. The logical comeback is for more clubs to become selective about who can race in retaliation.

 

Ragtime is in a rare position among sleds. She was the first. To say she's not a sled is a joke in any conversation. The races are being run under Americap, not boat for boat, so the "70" thing is corrected for. We shadowed the fleet to weather today, and then downwind, and defeated any argument that we aren't able to race with the other sleds boat for boat. Pretty good for a 42 year old boat.

 

The actions taken by LBYC, and by Peligroso and its owners, aren't Cornithian, and don't respect the sport or its history. The motivation, best as we can tell, is Peligroso does not want to race us in Transpac, or ID 48's, or TP 52's, so her way out is to try and create a class without them - and without us. Hopefully, by airing this issue, their goals will be thwarted.

 

There are two ironies about this situation. First, every skipper walked by LBYC's beautiful half model of Ragtime on the way to the skipper meeting. Second, Ragtime was bought out of New Zealand and moved to the USA after being outlawed for being too fast down under - and now, history repeats itself.

 

In retrospect, I'm glad they actually threw me out of the yacht club. It put a nice dot on the exclamation point of how poorly this was handled.

 

Chris Welsh

Ragtime

USA 7960

 

Here are the original emails:

(Mark Callahan is the paid skipper on Peligroso)

 

From: CallahanYachting@aol.com

Date: August 17, 2006 8:58:10 AM PDT

To: ragtime@chriswelsh.com

Subject: Re: Sled Regattas AGAIN

 

Good Morning,

 

Thankyou for your fast and positive reply. Also thankyou for the forwarding of the email. I will be in contact again very soon.

 

Thankyou,

 

Mark Callahan - Callahan Yachting

Long Beach Ca

cell. 619 - 990 2114

fax. 562 - 438 7686

skype. mark.callahan

CallahanYachting@aol.com

 

 

In a message dated 8/17/2006 8:39:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ragtime@chriswelsh.com writes:

Ragtime is in - thanks!

 

I cc'd Tim Hogan/Westerly and Don Ayres for forward to Doug Ayres/Skylark.

 

Chris Welsh

Ragtime

USA 7960

 

Hi there Chris,

 

I am writing to you, as to all the Sled (ULDB 70) owners, with the proposal of a new regatta. One just for Sled owners.

 

For some time now the owners that I work for, Mr. M.Campbell and Mr. D.Williams have talked of how good it would be to have a regatta held and run just for the SLEDS. Here in Long Beach where there was once great regattas with fast fun sailing on the ULDB 70 SLEDS.

 

Following some discussions of recent with LBYC committee it is a go. The Long Beach Yacht Club will provide staff, equipment and a venue from which to run a regatta on the last weekend of October.

 

Regatta Details

Date/s - October, Sat 28th + Sun 29th.

Location - Long Beach.

Racing - Saturday 3 races + Sunday 2 races.

Entry - $250 donation to the LBYC Junior Sailing Foundation.

Ratings - ORR (Americap). If a yacht does not have an ORR rating,

a suitable rating factor can be determined.

Events - Saturday, hors d'oeuvres party ($10/person), no host bar.

- Sunday, prize giving.

Docking - provided courtesy of LBYC.

 

This could be the start of a rejuvenation for the sled fleet racing and what will surely be a fantastic regatta for Sled owners.

 

Please email or call with your interest for participating in this event.

 

Thankyou,

 

Mark Callahan

Long Beach Ca

cell. 619 - 990 2114

fax. 562 - 438 7686

skype. mark.callahan

CallahanYachting@aol.com

 

You should ask for Redress

 

in the form of

 

Doom and unmitigated failure :blink::unsure::o:o:lol:

 

 

That sucks

Ragtime will be KING no matter who owns Her

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I'll take the contrary here....Mark C. is not a member of LBYC. Mike C. is. LBYC does an invitational and invites boats. I'm not sure where a J105 invitational regatta would allow a J109 to race...it comes down to did the YC invite them...no.

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I'll take the contrary here....Mark C. is not a member of LBYC. Mike C. is. LBYC does an invitational and invites boats. I'm not sure where a J105 invitational regatta would allow a J109 to race...it comes down to did the YC invite them...no.

 

wait, i'm confused, are you saying the IOR 70 sleds are like J105s, and Rags is like a j109? what, what?

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I'll take the contrary here....Mark C. is not a member of LBYC. Mike C. is. LBYC does an invitational and invites boats. I'm not sure where a J105 invitational regatta would allow a J109 to race...it comes down to did the YC invite them...no.

 

why would a J109 do a 105 race... its not liek they crashed the party just showed up with their invitation in hand

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A few answers from Ragtime:

1. There was no stated rating band.

2. Entering was stated in the Notice of Race to be by invitation. I (apparently incorrectly) thought we had been invited based on the emails sent. The NOR and entry form were online.

3. As to being invited, I agree Mark Callahan was trying to garner support. He works for Mike Campbell, and it was pretty clear from his emails and direct conversation at the time that they were looking to get boats out but were concerned about the turnout. I threw in early in order to try and get others to commit as well, because I would like to see the fleet grow again. Verbally I was told it was going to be a casual event, trying to get the fleet going again, etc. I had no indication beyond this that an actual paper invite to the prom was needed - the emails are pretty clear that they wanted us to sail. And Mike Campbell was in the immediate vicinity when we were told we could not race and made no comment or attempt to rectify the situation. LBYC's Commodore made it very clear that Mike Campbell was sponsoring and controlling the regatta. His guy was the one who contacted us. When you are the leader, you take responsibility for the actions of your subordinates. At least I do.

4. LBYC may assert we did not have an entry actually in. We had it with us to turn in Friday when we were informed we were out, and we ultimately dropped it off with their race coordinator this morning before the skipper meeting. There was no entry deadline. As stated before, we had called the race coordinator to say we were still planning to race, etc, about a week ago and were told at the time that the entries were still coming in, no problem. No mention was made of the restricted entry list.

5. One of the thoughts we had for attending the skipper's meeting was to see about racing, but not being scored. Having the boat in the water after 4 months out at the yard and with 14 people ready to race, it seemed a waste to not be sailing. We were not afforded the opportunity to make that suggestion (or any other) before being ejected.

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I'm not saying the ior sleds are 105s or any comparisions like that, it's they probably have a rating range were probably trying to stick to it and rags fell out of it...look at the boats...the yc in the email exchange did not invite rags...

 

for ULDB guy...I agree with you...the skipper or owner..member of another yacht club should be able to reciprocate...now, if the owner was told days before he did not fit the rating range....and thought he'd just show anyway....

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for ULDB guy...I agree with you...the skipper or owner..member of another yacht club should be able to reciprocate...now, if the owner was told days before he did not fit the rating range....and thought he'd just show anyway....

 

Either way if he wasn't causing a fuss why kick him out? let him sit in even if he isn't racing

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Hi Rags...

 

I saw your post when I posted...love your boat...it's awsome! I'm justing missing the invitational part and someones BN sticking his foot in his mouth.

 

Good Luck this year.

 

Sweet boat.

 

CD

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Wow. Are you sure that Rag's bow guy didn't get caught banging Frazier or Callahan's wife or something? That's some pathetic bullshit otherwise.

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Ragtime is a cool fucking boat.

I've been out West racing twice & love seeing that sled.

 

Hope we see some follow up on this story.

Thanks for posting this, Chris.

 

Sounds like it was handled very poorly.

 

Jim -

Chicago

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Wow. Are you sure that Rag's bow guy didn't get caught banging Frazier or Callahan's wife or something? That's some pathetic bullshit otherwise.

 

Obviously there is more to the story..the yacht club just does not do that...

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It did.

 

It did and it does. LBYC has evolved into a powerboat/happyhour club.

 

Earlier this year I spoke with a (1D48) boat owner and very active racer who was asked by the LBYC board to withdraw his membership application. I saw a copy of the letter from LBYC - its like freaking pushing the clock back 100 years. It didnt think that shit still happens today, but LBYC has never been a grass roots 'sailing for the sake of sailing' club. He was blackballed by board member(s) because of a biz deal/disagreement from 20 years' prior. Obviously adding an active racer to the LBYC roster didnt weigh more than an old ax to grind.

 

That is some lame assed shit too and yes, karma can be a bitch, but I really dont think they care.

 

Seems like they didnt care enough yesterday either. To hell with sailing history, with sportsmanship, participation, inclusion........ hey the answer you will get is: Its Their Club.

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I'm not saying the ior sleds are 105s or any comparisions like that, it's they probably have a rating range were probably trying to stick to it and rags fell out of it...look at the boats...the yc in the email exchange did not invite rags...

 

for ULDB guy...I agree with you...the skipper or owner..member of another yacht club should be able to reciprocate...now, if the owner was told days before he did not fit the rating range....and thought he'd just show anyway....

 

Wrong:

 

What is curious about any 'rating range' issue here is that Pelligroso is rated much further away from the 'Sleds' than Rags is. So if you are looking for a fair range ...... you'd have to include Rags even before Pelligroso. Future 70's regattas are under americap so there may be a way for this new 'class' to make ammends.

 

Very Strange.

 

And anyway, shouldnt it be Pelligrosa since boats are female and its spanish - or did i miss that class.

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Wrong:

 

What is curious about any 'rating range' issue here is that Pelligroso is rated much further away from the 'Sleds' than Rags is. So if you are looking for a fair range ...... you'd have to include Rags even before Pelligroso. Future 70's regattas are under americap so there may be a way for this new 'class' to make ammends.

 

Very Strange.

 

And anyway, shouldnt it be Pelligrosa since boats are female and its spanish - or did i miss that class.

 

I was thinking the same thing. The heyday of the sleds was the mid eighties, Peligroso as a modern design doesn't really fit against SC70s, Taxi and NM68s.

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Just my 2 cents on this situation

 

and how to avoid it in the future

 

 

First: Take the NOR beyond the required

 

State Clearly what you mean so it can not be misinterpreted

 

A "Members Only" Race

 

Written Invite Only, to be received on or before ??/??/????

 

Etc, Etc, Etc

 

 

Most importantly:

 

DO-NOT walk up with your reg. at the last min figuring to be racing

 

It's Not Fair to the Event

 

How many Racers should be prepared for Etc.

 

Many events are a Ghost town until the last min when everyone chimes in to race

 

What if an event were canceled a week early because no one had entered yet

 

And you were one of 100 boats that were about to enter at the last minute

 

 

If you are going to great lengths to prep for a race

 

Make your first step to "ENTER ALREADY"

 

If there is a problem

 

you'll hear about it in plenty of time to Deal with the situation

 

If you enter and hear nothing back till the event ( or pre party you have a gripe to be dealt with)

 

 

 

I must admit I have "NO Voice" in the running of any events

 

But I do have Eyes

 

Make it Easy on Everyone, Accept and Register EARLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Oh Yea and GO CHARGERS !!!!! ;)

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I was a wide-eyed 13 year old kid when Infidel, later to become Ragtime, was launched in Auckland, New Zealand; originally built to beat Lou Tercels legendary 60ft Ranger which had ruled Auckland Harbour since 1938. She wasn't considered a sled in those days as such things didn't exist in NZ. She went on to dominate "A" class racing on the Harbour and was a yacht I revered as a kid. I was once privileged to be shown over the boat by her proud designer, John Spencer, at a Squadron Weekend at Kawau Island in 1967. Some boats such as Infidel / Ragtime have a "feeling" about them that is almost palpable and that experience has stayed with me over the years.

 

Ragtime has since deservedly become a true legend in offshore sailing in the US and was indeed the very first "Sled". To exclude her from any Sled regatta seems petty and trite on someone's part. She is certainly no stranger to controversy but the late Sir Tom Clarke, who originally had her built, would be both saddened and amused were he to hear of this latest travesty of justice meted out to his old boat.

 

The boat and her proud history deserve far better.

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Wrong:

 

What is curious about any 'rating range' issue here is that Pelligroso is rated much further away from the 'Sleds' than Rags is. So if you are looking for a fair range ...... you'd have to include Rags even before Pelligroso. Future 70's regattas are under americap so there may be a way for this new 'class' to make ammends.

 

Very Strange.

 

The wind was light all day Sunday, so Ragtime wasn't going to be threat against the faster boats anyway. I don't know if it's fair to blame all the LBYC folks. Looks like they have a couple of rogues. If the Rear Commodore succeeds the current Commodore - and if the current Commodore/eunuch isn't chastised for his lack of balls, then it would be proper to chastise the LBYC membership. In other words, let's see who steps up and deals with this issue in the aggressive manner that it deserves.

 

One footnote - the foregoing assumes that things went down as Chris Wesh described in his original post; that is to say that Chris was ordered to leave LBYC by Bobbie Frazier simply because he was not invited to participate in the regatta. If Chris remained cool and didn't cause a scene as he described, then LYBC' actions had to be very embarrassing for Chris. Additionally, I went to LBYC's website to view the NOR and couldn't bring it up . . . hmmmmm suspicious. :rolleyes:

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post-10399-1162146051_thumb.jpg

 

Ragtime caught kelp, obviously..

You idiots had a hard time beating a stock Ross 40 with a tricked out Ross 40 boat for boat. Last year's Ensenada race was a crapshoot at best. Come on. You are hurting the 1D48 just in the same way you are hurting the Rocket 22. It doesn't matter how much you hide, we know who you are.

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Fuck LBYC, a bunch of old guys who like to dress up and play "yachtsmen". I am disgusted every time I walk into that club because I don't feel like they put sailing at the top of their agenda. Ragtime is a clasic and should be allowed in any fucking race she wants to be in. There's a fucking model of the boat in the hallway!!!!

 

 

Chris, I think you should take that model as obviously LBYC has lost their priorities like so many other yacht clubs.

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Can't believe nobody has called for the popcorn and peanuts yet! This shit is great. Can I have an IPA with those snacks!

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What's cool about this is that I don't see Ragtime making any threats or calling the attorneys in. Hat's off to voicing his disappointment in a gentlemanlike way. Does justice to the boat and the sport.

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I don’t think the issue is as simple as “should Ragtime be racing” - I think everyone would agree big sleds in an ideal world should be racing against big sleds. The issue here is does a club have the right to stage an event that either involves ONLY club members boats, or specific boats by Invitation only?

 

While I think the LBYC is both stupid and shortsighted for excluding Ragtime based on the information posted here, I still think a club should have the ability to make decisions on the types of events they host and who can attend; even stupid decisions such as this one.

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>Second, Ragtime was bought out of New Zealand and moved to the USA after being outlawed for being too fast down under - and now, history repeats itself.<

 

Not correct, there was a number of good 60fters racing in Auckland at the time including Ranger which was pretty well unbeaten for 37 years. Infidel (renamed Ragtime in US) was pretty quick, particularly if she got a course with plenty of reaching and not too much windward work, but certainly was not outlawed for being too fast down under.

 

Sir Tom Clark sold her to build Bucaneer - which was designed as an offshore racer. However when it was threatened to enter Infidel in the Sydney Hobart the Australians suddenly found a scantling rule with which compliance would have been impossible. Of course the Aussies cited safety reasons, however really they didn't want a fast kiwi boat taking their race. In view of the later achievements of Ragtime, it seems rather small beer, now.

 

She became a legendary boat as time evolved, and deservedly so with her ocean racing record. Seems hard to believe that she is the same boat I saw walking past Spencer's shed, on my way to rugby practice, when I was 11 or 12yrs old.

 

These guys don't deserve to be seen in her company.

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Regardless of what you want to call Ragtime, there is not excuse to treat a fellow racer like this.

 

This puts a black eye on the reputation of Long Beach Yacht Club and would expect an apology in writing from the club. There is no excuse.

 

PS - The only thing I can remember of her is watching a Warren Miller flick as a kid and seeing Ragtime and saying, "That is the coolest boat I have ever seen."

 

Deneying her entry would be like saying Dorade couldn't compete in the Bermuda race because she was unseaworthy. (http://www.sparkmanstephens.com/design/past_design.html#dorade)

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I'm still waiting for some kind of explanation from those who did this. If the Ragtime crew collectively pissed in the LBYC cornflakes I'd understand.... it's gotta be something like this, right? Otherwise...

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I'm still waiting for some kind of explanation from those who did this. If the Ragtime crew collectively pissed in the LBYC cornflakes I'd understand.... it's gotta be something like this, right? Otherwise...

 

Obviously there is another side to this story...it does not make sense....oh by the way, it was LBYC members that brought ragtime to the states and campaigned her in the glory days....that alone makes you wonder who pissed off who first...

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Obviously there is another side to this story...it does not make sense....oh by the way, it was LBYC members that brought ragtime to the states and campaigned her in the glory days....that alone makes you wonder who pissed off who first...

 

I just peaked at their website and it said only boats that receive an invitation by the organizing authority...let's see the invitation from the PRO that says please come and play or was the rags boys crashing a party?

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I'll take the contrary here....Mark C. is not a member of LBYC. Mike C. is. LBYC does an invitational and invites boats. I'm not sure where a J105 invitational regatta would allow a J109 to race...it comes down to did the YC invite them...no.

Scratch,

 

As was pointed out earlier, Ragtime was an IOR 70 rater and always was in the same group as the SC 70s, i.e. same rating. I'm sure if push came to shove with regards to US Ailings rules, if the invite said 70's Invitational Regatta that implies the 70 foot max rating and not SC 70s.

 

Just my 3 cents.

 

Will Museler

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As the old saying goes.......I don't have a dog in this fight. But if I did, off comes the muzzle!

 

As a past board member and commodore of a sailing club with over 260 members I feel compelled to share my thoughts regarding this complete lack of integrity and responsibility displayed by the LBYC.

 

First of all. I do think clubs can have closed functions........including regattas, if they choose. I know of many clubs that do this without any problem. However, they are completely upfront about how the regatta is structured.

 

However, to publish the NOR ( without indicating its a "closed regatta") and then engage a possible competitor in dialoge (written and verbal) that indicates his anticipated participation only to slam the door on his face is upsetting and demonstrates a complete lack of character on behalf of the LBYC!

 

The sailing club I am a member of would never.........and I mean NEVER, treat a competitor with such dis-regard. Its no wonder why racing has participation issues. Why bother to put yourself thru this bullshit.........Just go cruising instead.

 

If any of the SAers out there are a member of the LBYC, then I would strongly suggest its time to step up and do the right thing and openly and publicly apologize to all offended parties. To not attempt to correct this wrong makes you guilty by association.

 

Individuals as well as clubs, associations, etc are judged by thier actions (or lack there of) and for the whole club to be judged in this light as a result of the actions of a few would be a shame!

 

LBYC members.............time to step up and demonstrate some integrity!

 

dain

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bitch all you want, but they can do it.

 

but if it was me, i would of left the boats alone for the start, then sail the course anyways... just like a race, and take 'em out, one by one.

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From the hard and fast rules perspective:

 

The NOR decides who is eligible to participate in an event (invitationals, I believe, no longer exist in the sport as a result of the Ted Stevens Amatuer Sports Act - see USOC's website for the details on this Congressional Act). If the NOR says that only boats with fiberglass hulls may participate, then wooden ones can't. If the NOR says that boats 64' and above may participate, then one that is 63' 9" can't. So, if your boat met the requirements as outlined in the NOR, then your boat is eligible to participate. If the organizing authority doesn't let you in, then you can file redress as a quick step, but the real slap which would take longer (and your boat would miss the event is to go to Part VII of the new U.S. Sailing bylaws. You'll have to file a complaint and testify at a closed door hearing:

http://www.ussailing.org/bylaws/documents/Bylaws9-16-05.pdf

 

As usual, if you don't protest - it never happened.

 

There are no police and no state prosecuters to take care of things for you. It is your obligation to stick up for your rights.

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Scratch,

 

As was pointed out earlier, Ragtime was an IOR 70 rater and always was in the same group as the SC 70s, i.e. same rating. I'm sure if push came to shove with regards to US Ailings rules, if the invite said 70's Invitational Regatta that implies the 70 foot max rating and not SC 70s.

 

Just my 3 cents.

 

Will Museler

 

 

I don't know about that. For those that remember the ULDB 70 class was often refered to as the Santa Crus Protection Society. I agree with the poster that said Rags is closer to a ULDB 70 than Peligroso. I also asgree that Cambell is a class act as is Calahan so I would like to hear the other side before judgung.

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You're nobody till sombody "Diss" you

 

 

I think RAGGs is quite the Nice Fit in the ULDB Class

 

06pv2040.JPG

 

I think a part of this story is missing :unsure:

 

Interesting to find out what it is

 

RAGTIME should have an open offer to just show up and race in any Class "SHE" Inspired ;)

 

WOODIES Rule !!!! ( Sorry in Advance ) :lol::lol::lol:

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I've never liked LBYC - there is always some lingering bad vibe.

 

Totally agree... I've never felt more unwelcome at any other club on the coast.

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Here's the NOR from the LBYC website. Note the eligibility requirements.

 

2006 70’s Invitational

October 28th and 29th, 2006

Hosted by

Long Beach Yacht Club

Long Beach, CA

Notice of Race

1. Rules

The regatta will be governed by the rules as defined in the Racing Rules of

Sailing, RRS 2005-2008. Where a conflict exists the Sailing Instructions

shall prevail over the Notice of Race.

2. Eligibility and Entry

All eligible boats must receive an invitation from the organizing authority.

3. Entry

Entry fee is yet to be determined. The entry fee will include post-racing

food and entertainment for all participating crews.

4. Schedule of Events

Saturday, October 28th

1000hrs: Skipper’s Meeting at LBYC, Regatta Room

1200hrs: First Warning. There are two (2) races scheduled.

1630hrs: Post Racing hors d’ouevres and no-host bar

Sunday, October 29th

1200hrs: First Warning. There are two (2) races scheduled.

1600hrs: Post Race Reception and awards at LBYC

5. Sailing Instructions

Sailing Instructions will be available after 1800 hours on October 27th, 2006,

at the Long Beach Yacht Club.

6. Racing Course

The racing area will be approximately two (2) miles west of the Seal Beach

Pier.

2

7. Scoring

Four (4) races are scheduled. Two (2) completed races may constitute a

series. The Americap scoring system will apply. Four (4) races will be

counted for scoring purposes.

8. Trophies

Trophies will be awarded to the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Place finishers

Additional trophies, if warranted, may be awarded at the discretion of the

Organizing Committee.

9. Support Boats

Support boats will be permitted.

10. Berthing

There will be berthing permitted on the LBYC Long Dock. Boats will be

med-tied outward from the yacht Victoria.

11. Further information

Contact:

Long Beach Yacht Club

6201 Appian Way

Long Beach, CA 90803

562 493-5173

raceoffice@lbyc.org

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Here's their NOR: http://www.lbyc.org/docmanager/70%20NoR.pdf

Here's the Entry Form: http://www.lbyc.org/docmanager/70%20Entry%20Form.pdf

 

While their NOR is not in concert with the Ted Stevens act, it does simply say that a boat must be invited, and from your emails it sure looks like you were invited. It looks like LBYC blew it, but hey, keep racing and having fun with that great boat!

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....it does simply say that a boat must be invited, and from your emails it sure looks like you were invited....

 

That's what I meant to say.

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You idiots had a hard time beating a stock Ross 40 with a tricked out Ross 40 boat for boat. Last year's Ensenada race was a crapshoot at best. Come on. You are hurting the 1D48 just in the same way you are hurting the Rocket 22. It doesn't matter how much you hide, we know who you are.

 

 

 

Certainly, you ain't a mouse.

 

Why are we idiots?

 

Even Paddywagon had a few tricks. What does that boat rate now?

 

Last years Ensenada race was a cruise. Like the pics show, Ragtime was having some issues - it must have been kelp.

 

Who/what are we hurting? Why do you think we are hiding?

 

What do you suggest we do?

 

TIA

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The sad state of big boat racing on the west coast being what it is, I would have expected the LBYC to welcome any and all sleds to such a regatta. In fact, I would have thought that Rags would have been a perfect flaghip for the event. Then again, I am not a 75 year old blue blazer wearing stinkpot owner.

 

If I was a 70 owner I would refuse to race in deference to Ragtime. Snubbing those bastards is the single best way to show distaste for their actions.

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The sad state of big boat racing on the west coast being what it is, I would have expected the LBYC to welcome any and all sleds to such a regatta. In fact, I would have thought that Rags would have been a perfect flaghip for the event. Then again, I am not a 75 year old blue blazer wearing stinkpot owner.

 

If I was a 70 owner I would refuse to race in deference to Ragtime. Snubbing those bastards is the single best way to show distaste for their actions.

Did you ever think that they are all afraid of Ragtime? Big boats big egos. Some people just can't handle loosing.

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Bring rags to the Cheese Bay, we have a NYYC designed 60fter that needs someone to race

long distances againist. old woodie big boats rock.

 

 

FD

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What exactly qualifies as an invitation? Is an e-mail that does not state "you re invited to compete....." adequate? Is a verbal invite adequate? I really don't get this at all. It seems to me that the participant should have been sent a direct invite detailing the race and the requirments to enter, which presumably they already comply with, having received the invite. Btw, I am totally with everyone else, LBYC facked it up, just want to know what qualifies as an invite.

 

Unlurking, your'e an idiot for hijacking this thread to brag about your perceived sailing greatness.

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Someone out the off the water back story, there has to be one.... Probably something involving a daughter, a Rolls, an ex-wife, a cucumber, etc.... - there is something not being said here - yet....

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From the Commodore's message on the LBYC web site.

 

 

"We are particularly proud of our long history of prominence in sailing regattas."

 

Guess they forgot that history .......thier history............is constantly rewritten!

 

dain

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Did you ever think that they are all afraid of Ragtime? Big boats big egos. Some people just can't handle loosing.

 

Yeah, but it seems a bit unlikely. Rags is an incredible boat, but she has been outpaced by the other 70s' many times over the years. She is capable of winning, but not to the extent that the others would be scared to race her. Having said that, winning such a regatta without Rags competing would be a hollow victory anyways.

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A flame burning on SA isn't enough for you?

 

What makes you think they care about what is said on SA? Sure seems like a BS move but I doubt you will hear from anyone at the club or those that made the decision to exclude Ragtime.

 

They don't care and will just go their merry way ignoring what is right in favor of personal whims.

 

Because they can.

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OLD WOODIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Don't need no stinking invite :unsure::blink::o:o:lol:

 

fri13.jpg

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OLD WOODIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Don't need no stinking invite :unsure::blink::o:o:lol:

 

fri13.jpg

 

nice pic, da-woody. both of them look terrific.

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1973 Transpac

 

Ragtime destroys the fleet and a big sign "RAGTIME" hangs from the hotel above the Ala Wai Basin. Ondine (the blue pig) and Grey beard and the other big boats were left in the dust.

 

Bill Lee's 40' "Panache" is in the fleet.

 

The SLED was born.

 

GO RAGS!

 

I was sailing an ultra-light schooner "New World" (69' long, 29,000#, built out of cold molded plywood by Spencer in NZ - Where is she now? We flew a friggin' gollywobbler!)

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