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Tate

Endless Supply of J boats Specifically the j120 / J122 / j124

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I recently asked the simple question as to whether a j124 was the right boat for the right money. The post recieved a plethera of J boat bashing!

 

I think you all should take a moment to consider this: J boats have been building consistant hulls (sort of) with an ever increasing range of products that, Oh yea, Sail really well considering the design - which is easy and sailable.

 

Ok I understand that several of you out there think sailing should be a breeze, cheap, and oh yea affordable to you. I think you should consider that only about 1% of the population of the United States has ever even been on a boat let alone a Sail boat.

 

Now, since I own a J100 and a new J124, yes I am partial to the brand, design, sailability, ease of handling...

 

Wouldn't it be interesting if you all offered up an intelligent comentary on the question asked rather than just a random spattering of key strokes.

 

Go!

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mate, this is SA. There's a lot of good info, theres a lot of entertainement, and there's a lot of shit slinging'.

 

 

However, it is annoying to me that there are 3 boats in the 39-42ft range...

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Tate: You are really leading with your chin aren't you?

 

J/Boats are the best choice for me too, but I don't worry at all about the choices of a bunch of nameless strangers, many of whom are just jerking everyone's chain just for the mean-spirited fun of it. Anyone who presumes their choice is the best for everyone without knowing the other party at all isn't really worth listening to.

 

The J/120 was a big success by any measure but its product life has run its course, it had a nice long run for owners and J/Boats. Anyone who faults J/Boats for offering up the J/124 and the J/122 some 11-12 years after the J/120 was introduced must not know anything about sustaining a business. You can't expect J/Boats to hold on to an old design that's no longer generating sales traffic, they have to reinvent themselves just like any business. Those who can't see that must be furious with automakers --- what with changing models somewhat every year and completely changing them every 3-5 years!

 

So there are only two J/Choices and they are intended for different audiences. The J/124 is a grand daysailer and the J/122 is a cruisy IRC racer. Again the car analogy, how dare those automakers offer several sedans, several SUV's (Toyota had 5 active models at one time) and several trucks - the nerve.

 

And please note the second adage below...

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They also say in the car business, "Every ass has a seat."

 

JBoats are good boats. But there are many good boats out there.

Based on your question Tate: For my money, I would find my ass on a Brenta 38.

 

The beautiful part about this forum is the variety of opinions from all over the globe.

A question asked is opening the door to the educated; the creative; and the odd MAC26 lover.

 

That's why I keep coming back even after being directly offended; indirectly offended; or just shake my head at some of the stuff I read.

 

Happy Holidays Anarchists,

33

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J100 & J124? Jeezus man. I have a J22 and worry about wasting $1000 a year on it. Must be nice.

 

How's the J100? Looks like a sleeper to me, speed without effort. Other than the J22, I believe its the purest of the Js.

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why did you go with the 124 rather than wait for the 122?

 

 

Thats easy, the 122 is abouta 100 grand more and for me all you get is down below. I typically spe nd alot more time on deck so thats where I spend my money

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J-120 is a great boat. It some ways its was a "breakthrough" boat. I agree that its hard to imagine a significant difference between the 120 & 122.

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Tate, How is the 124 for overnighting/cruising? If you've done it how are the sleeping accomadations? Also, does it sail as good as it looks?

 

aCTUALLY THIS IS THE FIRST SAILBOAT i HAVE OWNED THAT i HAVE SLEPT ON.

 

It was fine. I wouldn't want more than four all together and at the dock two adults and two kids seems better. BUt the forward cabin is very comfortable right out of the box.

 

Only rally bad point is that the head is difficult. It reminds me a sitting on a head in a swan 47 at sea. sitting sideways so that I could keep my keaster on the can.

 

Other than that - I( Love It.

 

It sails Fantastic.

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J100 & J124? Jeezus man. I have a J22 and worry about wasting $1000 a year on it. Must be nice.

 

How's the J100? Looks like a sleeper to me, speed without effort. Other than the J22, I believe its the purest of the Js.

 

 

It really is pure sailing. On the speed without effort thing, I think it sails with ease but racing takes the same kinf of effort that sailing your j22 takes to race.

 

fUNNY THING IS THAT i ALWAYS THINK THE j22 IS THE PURE SAILING THING.

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mate, this is SA. There's a lot of good info, theres a lot of entertainement, and there's a lot of shit slinging'.

However, it is annoying to me that there are 3 boats in the 39-42ft range...

 

Don't forget the 125.

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Don't forget the 125.

Also discontinued years ago. The only active J/Boats in that range are the J/122 and the J/124, again designed for different primary uses/target markets.

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PS – For $500K could you do better on the ultimate day sailing boat? Definitely, have I told you about my ideas for an ultimate day sailing boat? Check out the Wylie 44, now you will want Tom to make a few changes to the original concept, lightweight rotating wing mast…. but for sure, for less than $500K you can have the one true Ultimate Day Sailing Boat… at least according to me…

 

You know what makes the W44 not a day sailing boat? It's cockpit. It has a cockpit for a full blown race crew, no settees etc. even though the damn cockpit is 20 feet long. I like the W44 a lot in concept, but it misses opportunities on deck and down below to make that boat more broadly applicable and marketable. Besides, it is a short hander, why do you need a cockpit for 10 man crew? Same problem with the Sydney 38, actually quite nice down below, but the cockpit is all race. A non-racer can't plant their ass anywhere on that boat. Hard to take out your non-racing friends (if you have any) and your business relations for a little cruise on the Bay. J Boats and Beneteau get this. Sydney just introduced the RC 39, same hull as 38, but different deck and interior.

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You know what makes the W44 not a day sailing boat? It's cockpit. It has a cockpit for a full blown race crew, no settees etc. even though the damn cockpit is 20 feet long. I like the W44 a lot in concept, but it misses opportunities on deck and down below to make that boat more broadly applicable and marketable. Besides, it is a short hander, why do you need a cockpit for 10 man crew? Same problem with the Sydney 38, actually quite nice down below, but the cockpit is all race. A non-racer can't plant their ass anywhere on that boat. Hard to take out your non-racing friends (if you have any) and your business relations for a little cruise on the Bay. J Boats and Beneteau get this. Sydney just introduced the RC 39, same hull as 38, but different deck and interior.

 

that crusing cockpit in the 109 is what i hate most about it. Trust me, when you got 3 guys trying to work in there (main, jib trim, jib trail, hopefully pit is smart enough to stand in companionway if halyards need tension) it can really be hard. I find myself sitting on the seat sides with my feet on the seats anyway when just hangin' out on the boat. Those things do nothing but get in the way. The J90 is probably a bit more open though, and the 109 is probably an extreme example compared to that, but i dont think the Bendytoys are any better that way, if they're going for the same market. So remember not to take your idea of having a big racy cockpit is bad, i prefer it much, even for just bs'n with people after the race etc.

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The J90 is probably a bit more open though, and the 109 is probably an extreme example compared to that, but i dont think the Bendytoys are any better that way, if they're going for the same market. So remember not to take your idea of having a big racy cockpit is bad, i prefer it much, even for just bs'n with people after the race etc.

 

You can't beat an open cockpit for racing. My J/90 is 16 feet of cockpit, no crew has to traverse the cabin house or go around the mast, everybody works and stays in the cockpit, even for sets and douse of the kite. Very functional, very safe. It makes no bones about being a cruiser. While I day sail the boat, if I want a few non-sailors out for a day sail, forget it. A cruising cokpit sucks for racing and vice versa. Beneteau does have these removable lockers that open up the cockpit quite a lot in the 36.7 and 40.7. They show some insight into the problem. I rent a J/105 when the folks come to town.

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You guys who are saying racing cockpits are no good for cruising are NUTS!

 

I'd take a wide-open cockpit with no settees and good lifeline pads anyday over the crowded, knee-banging clusterfuck that is the average cruising boat cockpit. And at 6'6", the lifelines provide me much more back support than 99% of those cruising cockpits as well. Not to mention the fact that you don't have to jump all over your guests to trim main (by the driver rather than on the cabin top or some bullshit like that) or trim the jib (just tell them not to sit right by that winch).

 

I've taken out plenty of non sailors on grand-prix boats with full racing cockpits and never heard a complaint. This is not the case for boats (even J-boats) with their "cockpit seats".

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You guys who are saying racing cockpits are no good for cruising are NUTS!

 

I'd take a wide-open cockpit with no settees and good lifeline pads anyday over the crowded, knee-banging clusterfuck that is the average cruising boat cockpit. Aot to mention the fact that you don't have to jump all over your guests to trim main (by the driver rather than on the cabin top or some bullshit like that) or trim the jib (just tell them not to sit right by that winch).

 

I've taken out plenty of non sailors on grand-prix boats with full racing cockpits and never heard a complaint. This is not the case for boats (even J-boats) with their "cockpit seats".

 

 

 

Quite bloody right pal !

 

The only decent J boat is the 125, massive cokpit, boom tent it for seattle or tarbert, maybe sleep below on it if you like, ( how often do j120 owners cruise? Or Do they just like the concessions on IRC?) and when you slide a little you know you will meet a kick on the floor or be grabbing a life rail rather than something 90' with a gin glass on it. finally- everyone holds onto their own beers- enough said.

 

also goes like stink up hill and down dale.

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Do you know how many J/90's were built total? I don't think I have ever seen one on the market used.

There were only 4-5 built so you won't see them on the market very often. Sweet Jane in Santa Cruz (?) was for sale last year I think. I was interested (mostly couldn't sell no head to my wife for a next boat) and a J/Boat dealer tried to sell me J/90 #6, evidently the hull was molded years ago but never completed and I assume it's been sitting up in Rhode Island somewhere for all this time. I am sure they'd make you one hell of deal on it.

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how often do j120 owners cruise?

 

 

 

I would say about 95% of the J-120's primarily cruise the boat.

 

We have 7 in northern New England and only 1 races with any regularity.

 

Many 120's do not race at all.

 

It is a great cruising boat.

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I would say about 95% of the J-120 primarily cruise the boat.

 

We have 7 in northern New England and only 1 races with any regularity.

 

Many 120's that do not race at all.

 

It is a great cruising boat.

Sad but true. Lots of them around but few that race (In the Chesapeake at least).

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From a European perspective ..

 

J120 is a 'dead' boat now with regard to new sales - a number of prior J120 owners have traded down to J109's - I don't recall the last time there was a new J120 sold into the UK - 3+ years ?

 

The J122 could do well, smaller and less cruisey than the J133, more IRC orientated than the J120

 

J100/J124 I don't think will do so well - not a big demand for that type of boat - 109 sales demonstrate the demand for a more cruisey racer here

 

I would second comments above about the J120 being cruised - most J120 owners here cruise some or all of the time, they are typically raced offshore/passage racing rather than inshore

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The six are Ragtime (ragbag), Sweet Jane (in Sausalito now), Black Wing (modified by Hall), one in the UK, Surfinn' (r.finn), and Hot Toddy "II" in Florida. I believe only Ragtime has a Saildrive.

 

The UK J/90 is "Moose on The Loose" based (I believe) in Brighton - South Coast. ..........and it is one crackin' boat!

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I would say about 95% of the J-120's primarily cruise the boat.

 

We have 7 in northern New England and only 1 races with any regularity.

 

Many 120's do not race at all.

 

It is a great cruising boat.

 

true of most boats, even more race oriented types. even melges 24 only gets 10% at best at a majore event.

 

ducky

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A J/100 and a J/124- Wow you sure bought the J/boat marketing. Good for you I like to see money spent on US based sailing companies.

 

As for Quality- ease of handling etc there are many others out there with this also for less money they just aren't as prolific in their marketing and it takes a little research to learn about them.

 

My personal take on the J/boat thing is they are simply over priced for what your getting. Not to mention are a bit on the boring side regarding looks and even from the helm- I'm not saying they are I'14 skiffs here just that they are well boring boats with a big price tag. But hey if you have the coin to buy two expensive boats and the time to sail both then more power to you. Have fun with your J/boats - I'll stick with the little builders and boats that are fun to drive and have some character

since when did a u20 look beter or cost less than a J22?

 

ducky

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As for something intended to use as the family weekend/cruise adventure boat there are a number of boats out there that sail just as good as their inviting interior for much less than the J. And some can be set up with Asym kites, but then again if your cruising a cruising asym kite works with just about any boat. If you don't use the kite meaning you don't fly it every chance you have then why bother paying top dollar for a J/boat with a fancy sprit pole- your not using it.

No problem with your POV, but for those of us who prefer to buy new boats (someone has to), name the boats/builder that "sail just as good as their inviting interior for much less than a J." Most of the alternatives to me are: too cruisy/heavy (Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau), require too much railmeat (Melges, Mumms, FT10M, etc.), are too complex (running backs, conventional chute, etc.) and/or too expensive (compared to a J/Boat).

 

I insist on flying a kite, sailing shorthanded (including the kite) and better than average sailing performance and I've had trouble finding better boats for my purposes, so my last three have been J/Boats. They aren't cheap, but the resale was very good and they sold very quickly (one in 5 days, another in less than 2 weeks in the off-season).

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on looks. To my eye, J/Boats are typically better looking than most other builders - but to each his/her own.

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Tate you can give me your J-100.

 

Anyone who puts down J boats is just ignorent. They really do excel at making boats that are fast, but not insanely so, and fun to sail without needint 10 people.

 

Tate you can give me your J-100.

 

Anyone who puts down J boats is just ignorent. They really do excel at making boats that are fast, but not insanely so, and fun to sail without needint 10 people.

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Heard back from the "man that knows everything" about the runners on the J/125.

 

Yep, I was right, it does use runners. That is why I had excluded it from my "Ultimate Day Sailor" list. It is good to know my memory has not completely failed me.

 

J/125, that boat, man, what a very cool boat.

 

I don't think the J-125 uses runners. At least not the ones I've seen.

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They probably didn't need the headstay tension there in So-Cal. The guys who used to race the red one up here would put 8,000# on the runners.

 

I tried to figure out how to make a singlehander out of that boat without tearing apart the gorgeous Hall carbon rig. It was just a little over my head at the time. But yeah, what a boat.

Re the WC30's, doesn't Uno have a sprit and ass'ys now? Maybe that's why it rates 105.

 

Any reason why not 8000# on a single backstay? Hull construction maybe?

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I was over at Alameda Marina a while back (picking up my Main at Doyle from Bill after a re-cut). Uno was on its trailer and I walked over to take a look. To be honest, I don't remember a sprit (I sure hope I would have noticed), but I was mainly looking closely at the saildrive as that is on my must have list for the "Ultimate Day Sailing Boat" program and Tom had told me there wasn't room to put a Yanmar Saildrive in a stock WC30. So I guess the answer is, I am not sure.

 

In any case, there are a lot of people that will be a lot happier if they did re-rate them all. It is always funny to see a middle aged husband and wife couple on a Wyliecat 30, chugging along holding their lane next to one of those tensioned up GP boats.

I had heard that WC30's were pretty tender and the few pics I've seen would seem to confirm, not so?

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it's interesting where this thread has gone but it sure has me thinking about the wylie 30. are they still in production? boat sure makes alot of sense for most of us.

 

ducky

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I would say about 95% of the J-120's primarily cruise the boat.

 

We have 7 in northern New England and only 1 races with any regularity.

 

Many 120's do not race at all.

 

It is a great cruising boat.

There used to be six J120s in the CYC Seattle Center Sound Series and this year there was only one. In the PNW the J120s Attitude, Priorities, Swept Away, Joia, Hasle Free, BiFrost, Splash Dance, and Arial Boundries are all gone.

You got to wonder why. The J35/J36/J29 classes here are still good. Why did the J35s & J36s & J29s last and the J120s failed?

 

CYC Center Sound Series March 2007 results:

 

P03 PHRF Fleet - Sailed: 3 Discards: 0

1 P03 Time Bandit J120

2 P03 Shrek 1D35

3 P03 Kilo Synergy 1000

4 P03 Firecracker Flying Tiger 10M

5 P03 Rock On Flying Tiger 10M

6 P03 Synge Synergy 1000

7 P03 Snake Oil Trip 40

8 P03 Gunsmoke 1D35

9 P03 Minor Threat 1D35

 

The J Boats in the series:

post-1849-1175463533_thumb.jpg

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You got to wonder why. The J35/J36/J29 classes here are still good. Why did the J35s & J36s & J29s last and the J120s failed?

 

The fact that the 120's are being cruised just shows the benefits of a cruiser racer which has an alternative use other than just going round the bouys. The 120 is a better crusing boat than the 35 and the 39 - I don't know about the 36

 

In the UK the 120's that race (minority) tend to do passage races and offshore.

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J-Boats makes middle-of-the-road boats that they're marketing shows will sell to a broad group. Boats on either side will sell to a certain group but not necessarily be profitable as a whole. That is what will make them last over the years.

 

How many boats/builders have come and gone since the J24 came onto the scene?

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