• Announcements

    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Editor

Paul Mart

30 posts in this topic

AC

 

Paul Mart

 

So yesterday we told you that Paul Cayard signed with Desafío Español 2007 America's Cup team for an initial two month "consultant" contract. Now we hear that his deal gets him $500,000 for the two months. If true, that is a ton of dough for not much time. On its face, it looks ridiculous, but given what pro salaries are in other professional sports, maybe it is a deal. Such a deal. Comments?

 

12/13/06

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good for Cayard.

 

US$500K for two months sure is a lot of money, but the stakes are already high for the syndicates and their backers. What's BMW Oracle's budget? Something like US$120 million? BMW Oracle's designers planned to build something like 20 models at US$250K a pop for testing during their campaign.

 

If Cayard brings results, he'll look like a bargain for Desafío Español.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Run a parallel with corporate consulting and it sounds OK.

 

Lets say he puts in 60 days and a conservative estimate of 12 hours per day, it's only $700 per hour.

 

Senior partners at Accenture, BCG etc. are charged out at higher rates.

 

PC won't be there to ensure the colour scheme is right, he'll be the main campaign strategy consultant with an option to drive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good on Paul and I would say a fair compensation for two months work especially if they fair well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you smell the desperation and fear?

 

If, by some incredible turn of events, Desafio win, the half mill will look cheap (but it isn't, it's ten times the annual salary of an average worker - and annualised it is 6 times that).

 

When they lose it will look like what it looks like. . . a bunch of suits so desperate for a chance to carve their names on a pie tin that they don't mind being seen pissing in the wind for a chance, any chance at something for which they should have been doing their planning years ago.

 

Good luck to PC for the deal of the century, that noise you hear is a sniggering PC cockily walking into his bank and depositing the cheque.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If, by some incredible turn of events, Desafio win, the half mill will look cheap (but it isn't, it's ten times the annual salary of an average worker - and annualised it is 6 times that).

And Paul cayard is an average worker is he? See SandM's comment above. If you put it that way the average worker (I presume you are referencing everything back to the US) is earning twenty times more than the person who stitched the Nikes that are on his feet. Get real.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And Paul Cayard is an average worker is he?

 

According to the Ed he is.

 

No, you presume incorrectly, I think about the man across the street who will never amass $5000 let alone half a million in a lifetime of hard work under the sun, but I use him gratuitously and in a very paternalistic and cruel manner to evidence the great sum PC stands to gain in a short two months and the foolisheness and desperation of the Desafio pursuit.

 

I avoid wearing Nikes, Adidas or any rubberised slave-laboured footwear. I prefer Gucci loafers made by well-paid Italians. Failing that I wear barefeet since I live at the beach and we Aussies never wear shoes when we sail, fuck, dance or go to war.

 

You said Get real.

 

I say get fucked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Desafío Español really in such bad shape?

 

Looking at the results so far, it doesn't look like they're too far behind BMW Oracle, ETNZ and Luna Rossa -- even if they aren't likely to be the challenger. Seems to me that they might be in a position where someone like Cayard could make a difference. Same might be said for any team in the middle of the fleet that wants to put more pressure on the leaders.

 

Proofeditwrite, good thinking on the Gucci shoes. Stick it to the man! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And Paul Cayard is an average worker is he?

 

According to the Ed he is.

 

No, you presume incorrectly, I think about the man across the street who will never amass $5000 let alone half a million in a lifetime of hard work under the sun, but I use him gratuitously and in a very paternalistic and cruel manner to evidence the great sum PC stands to gain in a short two months and the foolisheness and desperation of the Desafio pursuit.

 

I avoid wearing Nikes, Adidas or any rubberised slave-laboured footwear. I prefer Gucci loafers made by well-paid Italians. Failing that I wear barefeet since I live at the beach and we Aussies never wear shoes when we sail, fuck, dance or go to war.

 

You said Get real.

 

I say get fucked.

Thanks, that's crystal now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its not about the sport enymore, it is just advertisment all according to Koetlers principles. $500 k is cheap compeard to ads (of this size, and credibility) major website, sailing mag etc. You all have presumably visited the Desafío Español 2007 America's Cup team website, and PLING some more hits or visitors, which will generate more money to the team (they can prove to ther sponsors that they are popular, and may get more money or sponsors). It will generate what they call "soft values"

 

Its nothing more than bilboards, but hey,

Personally I would not hesitate to take the money, after that you could acctualy sail with people you liked, maybe even wear gucci shoes when sailing!

 

/spartan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good for PC.

 

Most of us would do it for free............. so when when "one of us" gets this kind of jack I can only be happy for him!

 

Now, the pressure is squarley on his shoulders to perform. :blink:

 

db

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AC

 

Paul Mart

 

So yesterday we told you that Paul Cayard signed with Desafío Español 2007 America's Cup team for an initial two month "consultant" contract. Now we hear that his deal gets him $500,000 for the two months. If true, that is a ton of dough for not much time. On its face, it looks ridiculous, but given what pro salaries are in other professional sports, maybe it is a deal. Such a deal. Comments?

 

12/13/06

 

$6Million annually for arguably the best sailor in the world for the job is cheap. Ask Dave Beckum. Tiny part of an AC budget..tiny. Is he available for Chester Race Week in Nova Scotia? We got a 40 and a sandwich Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is always a negative spin on hiring of professionals, and the amount that they are paid. And in many cases the "pro" is simply crap, and does not deserve the money (for example hiring a grinder for $5k for the day on some 52's).

 

Though in the bigger scheme of things, this is a business deal between two parties. Both have to agree, and both come to terms. The details of those terms are really not for us to debate...the cost of hiring PC for 2 months to an AC team appears to be $500,000. Simple.

 

Overall I would say that most if not all sports "entertainers" (ok athletes) are overpaid. $20mil per year for a steroid using baseball player? Or $7-9 mil per year for a basketball player who might just go out and shoot someone (ok he will get off...but that's not the point). Or $5mil for a running back that will miss 1/3 of all games because he is in jail?

 

Sports costs are out of control, but they are market driven. The returns on investment are huge and uncalculated. If PC gaims simply press time because he is on board, then they may be making enough of a return to be happy!

 

 

 

AC

 

Paul Mart

 

So yesterday we told you that Paul Cayard signed with Desafío Español 2007 America's Cup team for an initial two month "consultant" contract. Now we hear that his deal gets him $500,000 for the two months. If true, that is a ton of dough for not much time. On its face, it looks ridiculous, but given what pro salaries are in other professional sports, maybe it is a deal. Such a deal. Comments?

 

12/13/06

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing no one is mentioning is that if PC and DE decide to part ways after two months, PC can not sail for any other AC syndicate for this series. I'd say DE is very committed to keeping Cayard, if they can afford to. It's probably Cayard who needs time to evaluate whether he will want to stay or go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Putting the salary issue aside for a moment, does this action solve what the core issue of the program is? I guess my premise is that the core issue is either lack of money or something sailing/on the water related. If it is the second issue then perhaps he can have some impact, if it the former though I would question whether he could close the funding gap to such teams like BMW or Alinghi particularly in such a short period of time. I don't think it is any accident that the front running teams are also the best funded-as much as anything the AC is about ability to raise large sums of money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
$6M / year for the top pro athelete in his sport is a bargain. Good for PC!

Everything that is wrong with the world summed up in one sentence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's wrong with Sports in America? Why are all kids fat and all boats sitting idle in their slips? Why am I excited when 5 boats show up for a regatta that 50 attended 20 years ago? Why do I not give a shit about watching Amerika's Kupp on TV any more? MONEY. Too few have it all and want the rest of us to salivate over them because the do. Sorry Larry Ellison. I could give a shit about you, your money or your stinking syndicate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And Paul Cayard is an average worker is he?

 

According to the Ed he is.

 

No, you presume incorrectly, I think about the man across the street who will never amass $5000 let alone half a million in a lifetime of hard work under the sun, but I use him gratuitously and in a very paternalistic and cruel manner to evidence the great sum PC stands to gain in a short two months and the foolisheness and desperation of the Desafio pursuit.

 

I avoid wearing Nikes, Adidas or any rubberised slave-laboured footwear. I prefer Gucci loafers made by well-paid Italians. Failing that I wear barefeet since I live at the beach and we Aussies never wear shoes when we sail, fuck, dance or go to war.

 

You said Get real.

 

I say get fucked.

 

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but is the guy across the street the best in the world at what he does? The best in the world in my profession is the richest guy in the world and probably makes about a million per hour whether working or not. I think 500k for the best person in any profession doesn't seem to bad. Let the market decide what he's worth. I wish the market decided I was worth 6m/yr.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if you put it in perspective, 500k/2 months is awesome for any professional athlete. I am glad some one is valuing sailors in respect to other athletes. If you think about it some uneducated baseball or football player getting paid simular amounts to the elequent and intelligent (pompus yes) Paul Cayard, he earns it all. Hopefully we can get more American sailors paid that well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the actor that plays Ramond gets 1mil+ per episode. Everything is relative. Good on PC, i'd do it for free as well though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if I could go reign in Spain, mainly on a plane, for 500K it would be a no brainer....

 

Its all crazy, but if you can get it and they feel they are getting a good value for what is being spent, what can you say? If you could get Cayard (or any other quality pro) to go out and improve your game to winning status for $500 over a weekend, how many would do it? Banking on $500 is no big deal to you for a weekend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sure why not, most sports teams play with cheap balls and make tens of millions per year(s) and there team could suck, if paul helps spain win the cup for only half a mill, thats a very good deal for spain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but is the guy across the street the best in the world at what he does?

 

At being a father to three kids - he's the best. At sailing he's shit and his golf is appalling but he loves his wife, pats his dog, plays with his kids and asks me to his barbies every time he has one.

 

It is hard to say anyone is the best at anything and have it make any sense - well Tiger rates - but truly, Desafio is only smart enough to figure that their challenge needs a linchpin for which they are ready to pay PC proving they are clever enough to figure it out and stupid enough to think that it matters.

 

The best in the world in my profession is the richest guy in the world and probably makes about a million per hour whether working or not.

 

You make Swedish furniture too?

 

I think 500k for the best person in any profession doesn't seem to bad. Let the market decide what he's worth. I wish the market decided I was worth 6m/yr.

 

Nil desperandum dude, I reckon you're worth $6mill/per annum but hey I'm a writer I think everyone deserves more.

 

Speaking strictly for myself, if PC can cop it sweet for 8 weeks good on 'im, I was always on his side because he makes up for the 40-odd years I've done this racing caper for free if you exclude flags, cups, shirts, caps, crap and gee-gaws I never wanted but got anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what's your point proofeditwrite???

 

We may come from the same country but you seem to speak a different language to the rest of us here!!

 

I'd love it if I could get paid for being a great dad (at least my son thinks I am), but until he becomes a professional sportsman earning bucketloads that's not likely to happen... The point of this thread is that PC is being paid for his previous expertise in developing, managing and executing yacht racing campaigns such as VOR, previous AC’s etc, the fact that he can drive would also have been a major consideration.

 

All AC teams operate as corporate entities and need to present value to their shareholders, no different to Qantas being taken over by the Macquarie, Pacific, Texas et al consortium today. The Qantas board believe there is shareholder value in accepting the offer on the table, just like Desafio believing they will deliver value to their shareholders by recruiting PC on a short term consultative contract that will most likely be extended to include additional responsibilities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

in a sport that has such a high equipment cost it should seem only natural that more money be given to the team members that compete at a pro level. im suprised that more money hasn't been thrown around, aside from the small fan base in comparison to other major sports. But if the red sox can spend 100 million on a pitcher then why not give PC a hefty paycheck, i think it was the right thing to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Overall I would say that most if not all sports "entertainers" (ok athletes) are overpaid. $20mil per year for a steroid using baseball player? Or $7-9 mil per year for a basketball player who might just go out and shoot someone (ok he will get off...but that's not the point). Or $5mil for a running back that will miss 1/3 of all games because he is in jail?

 

You must be from Cincinnati... :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites