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Association Cup coming up soon.Predictions, or doesn't anyone give a shit any more

 

 

SYC as the new holders of the trophy have cooked it up to suit their own agenda without any consultation with the other Clubs. The NOR does not comply with the Deed. The event is invalid.

OK,so you're from the rapidly sinking RYCV who did the same for ten years. Any less biased opinions?

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Association Cup coming up soon.Predictions, or doesn't anyone give a shit any more

SYC as the new holders of the trophy have cooked it up to suit their own agenda without any consultation with the other Clubs. The NOR does not comply with the Deed. The event is invalid.

 

why would you give a shit these days Dave ?

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Melbourne big boat aint any more ,there is more boats doing sunday and wed pursuit races getting boring

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Association Cup coming up soon.Predictions, or doesn't anyone give a shit any moreSYC as the new holders of the trophy have cooked it up to suit their own agenda without any consultation with the other Clubs. The NOR does not comply with the Deed. The event is invalid.

OK,so you're from the rapidly sinking RYCV who did the same for ten years. Any less biased opinions?

 

Association Cup coming up soon.Predictions, or doesn't anyone give a shit any moreSYC as the new holders of the trophy have cooked it up to suit their own agenda without any consultation with the other Clubs. The NOR does not comply with the Deed. The event is invalid.

OK,so you're from the rapidly sinking RYCV who did the same for ten years. Any less biased opinions?

Unless you have been masquerading as a Club Captain you don't know jack shit so fuck off you idiot.

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Association Cup coming up soon.Predictions, or doesn't anyone give a shit any more

 

SYC as the new holders of the trophy have cooked it up to suit their own agenda without any consultation with the other Clubs. The NOR does not comply with the Deed. The event is invalid.

why would you give a shit these days Dave ?
Yeh I don't but I will call out bullshit when I see it. So what is SYC going to do when racing is abandoned on Sunday due to excessive wind? They have no provision for re-sail, another epic fail on their part along with writing the NOR to exclude certain boats to ensure that SYC could cover the rating bands that they wanted to.

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Association Cup coming up soon.Predictions, or doesn't anyone give a shit any more

 

 

SYC as the new holders of the trophy have cooked it up to suit their own agenda without any consultation with the other Clubs. The NOR does not comply with the Deed. The event is invalid.

why would you give a shit these days Dave ?

 

Yeh I don't but I will call out bullshit when I see it. So what is SYC going to do when racing is abandoned on Sunday due to excessive wind? They have no provision for re-sail, another epic fail on their part along with writing the NOR to exclude certain boats to ensure that SYC could cover the rating bands that they wanted to.

 

This should thrill you no end...

 

post-25217-0-15874600-1491647664_thumb.png

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In response to Melbourne A31. Although you state you don't care about the Assoc. Cup, your comments say otherwise.

But do not for one second try standing on your soap box, beating your chest about "cooking the books", which your club turned into an art form. Hippocrite, is the term most appropriate to your comments.

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In response to Melbourne A31. Although you state you don't care about the Assoc. Cup, your comments say otherwise.

But do not for one second try standing on your soap box, beating your chest about "cooking the books", which your club turned into an art form. Hippocrite, is the term most appropriate to your comments.

So where to now with Assoc. Cup 2017??

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Much bleating over ion FB from Geelong-ites peeved at the apparent loss of their FoS regatta due to stupendous ineptitude on behalf of their leadership and management.

Sandy has ALWAYS told us they intended to run the Aus Sailing Champs regatta the week before the usual FoS dates and until a short while ago that was the plan.

Geelong's bewildering decision to move their own iconic regatta to their own chosen new dates left the door open for Sandy, in conjunction with

Sailing Aus under whose auspices the Aus Sailing Champs are run, to take advantage of the apparently unwanted dates and they have done so.

 

Take heart Geelong-ites; the Aus Sailing Champs is a moving feast and is only on Port Phillip for 2018 as the event moves around the country.

If you can fuck off the COGG and the bike race, then you can have your event back in 2019. I very much doubt that the ASC event will do another

lap of the country before fading away under a cloud of huge expense and participation costs. There was a lot of publicity about the Sydney event

earlier this year but in reality,participation numbers in the self proclaimed "centre of the sailing universe" were woeful with marinas full of

non sailing competitive boats voting with their keels and staying away.

 

Without the lure of the ASC,and with history re their pitifully attended Centennial Regatta firmly in mind,

I really doubt Sandy could sustain a big regatta on a long term basis so it will be up to RGYC to seize back the

initiative and reinvent the regatta we all love to pour scorn on but nevertheless have until recently, turned up in droves to enjoy.

 

Just stop the obscene price gouging for food and beverages and accommodation and the future should be secured. Make it a regatta for sailors again!

 

Its up to you.

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Much bleating over ion FB from Geelong-ites peeved at the apparent loss of their FoS regatta due to stupendous ineptitude on behalf of their leadership and management.

Sandy has ALWAYS told us they intended to run the Aus Sailing Champs regatta the week before the usual FoS dates and until a short while ago that was the plan.

Geelong's bewildering decision to move their own iconic regatta to their own chosen new dates left the door open for Sandy, in conjunction with

Sailing Aus under whose auspices the Aus Sailing Champs are run, to take advantage of the apparently unwanted dates and they have done so.

 

Take heart Geelong-ites; the Aus Sailing Champs is a moving feast and is only on Port Phillip for 2018 as the event moves around the country.

If you can fuck off the COGG and the bike race, then you can have your event back in 2019. I very much doubt that the ASC event will do another

lap of the country before fading away under a cloud of huge expense and participation costs. There was a lot of publicity about the Sydney event

earlier this year but in reality,participation numbers in the self proclaimed "centre of the sailing universe" were woeful with marinas full of

non sailing competitive boats voting with their keels and staying away.

 

Without the lure of the ASC,and with history re their pitifully attended Centennial Regatta firmly in mind,

I really doubt Sandy could sustain a big regatta on a long term basis so it will be up to RGYC to seize back the

initiative and reinvent the regatta we all love to pour scorn on but nevertheless have until recently, turned up in droves to enjoy.

 

Just stop the obscene price gouging for food and beverages and accommodation and the future should be secured. Make it a regatta for sailors again!

 

Its up to you.

Well if the ASC is run as poorly as the last one at the CYC with only 7 boats in div 1 and not many more in div 2, Geelong don't have much t worry about.

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But there's the rub. SYC realise there will not as many boats in IRC and ORCi and so they have decided to make it an AMS regatta too so there will be more boats even though AS don't recognise AMS as a legit rating system. Talk about bastardising the ASC to suit your own means.

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The Aus Sailing Championships is a farce with low entries and an international boat just using it to stock their trophy cabinet, it should be Aus teams only eligible for the trophy.

So you're saying no more Chinese boats with Kiwi crew? Wonder why they don't do the "real" TP 52 stuff. Easier pickings down-under?

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The Aus Sailing Championships is a farce with low entries and an international boat just using it to stock their trophy cabinet, it should be Aus teams only eligible for the trophy.

Your kidding right. What about the "so-called" top Aussie boats avoiding regattas where Beau Geste enters to do pissy events like the one at Port Stevens last week just to put a trophy on their mantle?

SYC are ahead of the game and realise the Aus Sailing Champs is a dud and have therefore added other divisions to enhance their event. If they deliver on their announcement then it will be a great event.

Be fantastic to see Beau Geste there. Why is it that every event wants International representatives so long as they don't win?

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Much bleating over ion FB from Geelong-ites peeved at the apparent loss of their FoS regatta due to stupendous ineptitude on behalf of their leadership and management.

Sandy has ALWAYS told us they intended to run the Aus Sailing Champs regatta the week before the usual FoS dates and until a short while ago that was the plan.

Geelong's bewildering decision to move their own iconic regatta to their own chosen new dates left the door open for Sandy, in conjunction with

Sailing Aus under whose auspices the Aus Sailing Champs are run, to take advantage of the apparently unwanted dates and they have done so.

 

Take heart Geelong-ites; the Aus Sailing Champs is a moving feast and is only on Port Phillip for 2018 as the event moves around the country.

If you can fuck off the COGG and the bike race, then you can have your event back in 2019. I very much doubt that the ASC event will do another

lap of the country before fading away under a cloud of huge expense and participation costs. There was a lot of publicity about the Sydney event

earlier this year but in reality,participation numbers in the self proclaimed "centre of the sailing universe" were woeful with marinas full of

non sailing competitive boats voting with their keels and staying away.

 

Without the lure of the ASC,and with history re their pitifully attended Centennial Regatta firmly in mind,

I really doubt Sandy could sustain a big regatta on a long term basis so it will be up to RGYC to seize back the

initiative and reinvent the regatta we all love to pour scorn on but nevertheless have until recently, turned up in droves to enjoy.

 

Just stop the obscene price gouging for food and beverages and accommodation and the future should be secured. Make it a regatta for sailors again!

 

Its up to you.

Interesting to see the runaway F/Book thread (150+ posts) that was o/p'd by an aggrieved RGYC member has now been taken down, no doubt under strong pressure from the RGYC powers that be.

Not really surprised; it was getting quite vitriolic with numerous calls for heads to roll and generally shit-canning the management and committee for their supposed inaction on the FoS change of dates.

I have it on good authority there was a meeting at SYC at which the RGYC people advised their preferred dates for the next FoS away from the traditional Australia Day proximity which came as an unexpected but no doubt welcome surprise to the SYC contingent

No surprise then that SYC took the opportunity to take up those dates for their own event, albeit for a one-off regatta only.

Or so they say. No doubt there's more to come on this one.

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My understanding is Geelong Yacht Club had to lock in the FoS dates to coincide with the road racing for 4 years.

From a contractual view, I doubt RGYC are in any position to negotiate date changes until 2021.

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Maybe all the money they scored to spend on their new marina will console them?

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Maybe all the money they scored to spend on their new marina will console them?

 

Maybe that is their long term thinking. Over the last few years RGYC appear to have made a conscious decision to chase the money, rather than keep the customers happy. They may believe that sailors will always come back because of the FoS history, no doubt time will tell.

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Has there been any update on the old Farr 65 "Infinity 3" ?

 

IIRC she moved to Melbourne to be converted into a cruising boat about 6 months ago, but in that burnished gold surely she's hard to hide?

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Has there been any update on the old Farr 65 "Infinity 3" ?

 

IIRC she moved to Melbourne to be converted into a cruising boat about 6 months ago, but in that burnished gold surely she's hard to hide?

Something matching that description is sitting at a private birth in the Yarra, just upstream of the Bolte bridge.

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Has there been any update on the old Farr 65 "Infinity 3" ?

 

IIRC she moved to Melbourne to be converted into a cruising boat about 6 months ago, but in that burnished gold surely she's hard to hide?

She's at Royal YC of Vic Williamstown, been there for about a year now.

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Does he still have his family cruising Winnebago in Europe?

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Simply Expensive

Nah, that was just for the repairs when she got T-Boned hard a couple or so years ago.

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On 2017-4-26 at 10:27 AM, Don said:

My understanding is Geelong Yacht Club had to lock in the FoS dates to coincide with the road racing for 4 years.

From a contractual view, I doubt RGYC are in any position to negotiate date changes until 2021.

Maybe.  Maybe not

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13 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

Maybe.  Maybe not

I'm sure the (alleged) $10Mill will ease their pain and maybe even allow them to start work on their floating marina to bring them into the 20th Century. (Yes, 20th)

 

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Maybe Geelong will turn full circle and all the rockstar wannabe's will get sick of the price gouging and vote with their feet. Then the club will be forced to wheel the Lions Caravan in through the side gate, throw a local band in the corner and pay them in booze, fuck off all their marketing staff and hangers on, sell piss from the bar at reasonable prices, passage race Saturday & Olympic course Sunday with 3 divisions only and be done with it...

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21 hours ago, Oscar Whitbread said:

Maybe Geelong will turn full circle and all the rockstar wannabe's will get sick of the price gouging and vote with their feet. Then the club will be forced to wheel the Lions Caravan in through the side gate, throw a local band in the corner and pay them in booze, fuck off all their marketing staff and hangers on, sell piss from the bar at reasonable prices, passage race Saturday & Olympic course Sunday with 3 divisions only and be done with it...

Sounds like a plan OW. I like it, but don't hold your breath.

 

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This just in: The voice of reason looks to have prevailed:

 

Royal Geelong Yacht Club announces Festival of Sails is moving  
back to its traditional home on Australia Day!


The Royal Geelong Yacht Club (RGYC) has announced the iconic Festival of Sails regatta is moving back to its traditional place on the Australia Day weekend in January, as it celebrates its 175th anniversary in 2018.
 
According to Festival of Sails Chairman Peter Alexander, the club had listened carefully to feedback from competitors, RGYC members and a broad range of stakeholders and supporters and conceded that the move away from Australia Day didn’t work.
 
“It was a very big decision to make to move away from Australia Day this year, but it didn’t deliver the sort of results we were looking for,” he said.
 
“Now we’re delighted that our partners and stakeholders are in agreement with us, that the Australia Day weekend is – and should remain – the home of the Festival.”
 
Mr Alexander said the change of date in 2017 delivered lower entry numbers and some very clear feedback.
 
“The feedback from sailors was particularly loud and clear. They wanted their regatta back as an Australia Day celebration and we agree with them.”
 
Mr Alexander said 2018 was a particularly significant year for the event, as the largest sailing regatta in the Southern Hemisphere and one of Australia’s oldest sporting events celebrates its 175th anniversary.
 
“Our 175th birthday is a great reason to celebrate the history of this much loved sailing event and the Australia Day fireworks on Friday, January 26 2018 will be a fitting conclusion to the excitement of the annual opening Passage Race from Melbourne to Geelong that attracts hundreds of boats in a spectacular display on water.”
 
The Australian Yachting Championships to be hosted by Sandringham Yacht Club will now be held in the week preceding the Festival of Sails, from January 19 to 21, 2018. 
 
“This is a terrific example of our sport working together to support a major event and we’re delighted to have the Sandringham Yacht Club and Australian Sailing working with us to make sure the Festival of Sails is a fabulous celebration in 2018,” said Mr Alexander.
 
“We’re extremely grateful for their flexibility and their assistance, and of course the ongoing support of the Victorian State Government and presenting partner Rex Gorell Land Rover.” 
 
It has been announced that the 2018 Cadel Evans Great Ocean Road Race will be run on Sunday, January 28.
 
Victorian Minister for Tourism and Major Events, John Eren said that he looked forward to the blockbuster weekend of sport and celebration in Geelong over the Australia Day period.
 
“Hosting major events brings significant profile and economic benefit to Victoria and to the region and a weekend where you can witness some of the best cyclists and some of the best sailing in the world will no doubt attract great crowds to our beautiful foreshore and showcase our sporting credentials to the world.”
 
Chairman Peter Alexander said the Festival organisers were aware that having two significant events being run over the same weekend may potentially cause some logistical challenges.
 
“However, we’re confident we can work through these with our stakeholders and the organisers of the Cadel Evans Great Ocean Road Race to ensure we maximize the benefits of these two great sporting events for the region,” he said.
 
“We’re now confident that the 2018 Festival of Sails will truly be an event not to be missed and a fitting celebration of a 175th milestone for the sport of sailing.”

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That's great news - and you're right LP - common sense prevailing.....so IRC champs followed by geelong...lots of reasons for Syd2Hob boats from up north to hang around! Shame it took so long to get heads together, but I guess that's the parochial nature of our sport these days.

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When you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.

Fair bit of anger from the membership at RGYC over the 2017 event leading up to this sensible decision. Nice bit of inter club cooperation with SYC and hopefully we will see good numbers at both (sailing) events now. Personally couldn't give a flying fuck about the bike race.

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Terra Firma, Cookson 50 and Simply Fun, Coombsy's HH42 at Sandy,. Fuck all to get excited about at Royals, Hobbos or Brighton. PC out of the Squaddy is fast by grace of its size compared to what it has to race against but that's about all that can be said about it. The once celebrated Division Zero for bigger, faster boats is long extinct as they have gone the way of the DoDo and the Dinosaur

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20 hours ago, hoppy said:

I guess once you get 50+ foot mark, the draft of a competitive racer starts to get too deep for most club marinas.

I think its more to do with the rapidly diminishing depth of the owners bank accounts when they run those bigger boats. I would guess that Rob Date is having more fun with his modified Adams Ten at significantly lower running costs and management logistics compared to those of his old RP52 Scarlet Runner. At least he stayed in the game whereas most ex Div Zero owners seem to have moved on and aren't seen out there sailing.

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20 hours ago, hoppy said:

I guess once you get 50+ foot mark, the draft of a competitive racer starts to get too deep for most club marinas.

Not to mention the cost of a professional maintenance program and all the other hangers on who want to get paid.

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4 hours ago, hoppy said:

I disagree on the money being a problem. There are plenty of very wealthy people in Melbourne who could easily afford a big boat race program without blinking an eyelid. 

I suspect that it is more of a cultural thing. In Sydney sailing and yacht racing is a very in your face activity, especially for the mega rich who's mansions overlook the harbour. You just need a faction of a percent of them to get interested in racing to create a competitive big boat fleet.

Melbourne is not a sailing city and people who see the yachts out on the probably think it's just fool hardy people out there who are willing to sail in a boring bay. What the Melbourne  landlubbers don't realise is that the bay is perhaps one of Melbourne best kept secrets. Port Phillip Bay is in my opinion a much better place to yacht race than Sydney harbour because you can mostly concentrate on having fun racing without worrying about giving way to ferries and all of the countless pleasure boats cruising around. 

The state governments and tree huggers have not helped because of all of the failed attempts at making marinas over the years so marinas are mostly pretty poor and expensive and there is very limited scope for cheap swing moorings.

In economics they talk about the trickle down affect of giving companies and the rich tax breaks and I think that for sailing it can be a trickle up effect. Build more marinas and secure breakwaters with reasonable price moorings for smaller boats and make Melbourne a sailing city and as the fleet at bottom end increases, more people with the finances to run a big boat will get into sailing. 

Lots of money in Melbourne for sure but there aren't that many sailors in that category. Those that are are more inclined to spend vast sums on their Couta boats at Sorrento than chase pickle dishes under a flawed rating system that renders their expensive toys obsolete in no time flat.

Correct re Marinas, the one on which you park your own boat was more than 40 years in gestation due to council intransigence and yacht club inefficiencies. Statistically, sailing is of interest to less than 5% of the population so who gives a shit about the views of the landlubbers. More marinas wont help, believe it or not there's already a glut of marinas in this town with lots of empty berths - you're on one of them. They built marinas at Docklands to entice investors to buy apartments with the promise of free or low cost berths. Guess what? Most of them have no interest in the marina berths or boating so they remain unused.The new and much touted Wyndham Harbour is a ghost town so far and will need deep pockets to survive on the cash flow they are generating.

As for your view that Melbourne is not a sailing city, sorry pal, but that's complete and utter horseshit. You need to get out more often

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Hoppy and LP - you both make some good points.  Hoppy - agree that Melbourne , in the perception of the greater masses, is a poor cousin to Sydney, regardless of the quality of sailing available.  Sydney has some obvious advantages - wanna go for an ocean sail or race - sure - about 3 miles to the east and you're there- Melb - bash for 30 or so miles into a shitty chop in a 20+ s/wester - then wait for slack water, and into the relative cold and crap of Bass Strait.  And once there, well, where do you go (without lost of time up your sleeve).  So Sydney encourages more cruising & recreational activities for these kinds of reasons.

Moorings - yes.  The fucking greens, and green-dominated councils and state govts here, make it really tough to develop new facilites - despite the massive amount of coastline.  Problem with Melb is that the shape of the bay, shallowness and prevailing winds make new marinas or moorings limited - without substantial investment.

And yeah, im paying +7k for a berth for a mid 30s boat 'worth' mid 100's

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11 hours ago, hoppy said:

 

I did an O/N race on the bay 30 years ago and it was great fun. I'd love to do one on my boat but I can't find a race to plan for....

In the 70s, 80s, and up to the late 90's, all the Melbourne keel boat Clubs ran 75-90nm overnight races with large fleets enjoying a different aspect of sailing while learning or  using valuable seamanship skills. Sadly, the rise of the instant gratification generation has seen those over-nighters all but disappear. Elevated safety requirements and risk of exposure to higher than acceptable wind speeds combined with high compliance costs have all but regulated those longer races out of existence. Apart from offshore ocean racing, club level yacht racing looks to have been compressed into two to three hour time blocks with loud squawking and diminished numbers when the occasional longer event of, heaven forbid, three to four hours duration, is thrown into the mix.

And these days, if the wind should exceed 25 knots, they wont let you play anyway, (btw that's the same wind limit that applies to Optis and most junior dinghy classes) It wasn't always that way as published by The Sun's long time yachting journalist,Ed Featherston, in this 1983 article. 592630183f85e_Sun22783.thumb.jpg.f57ac2ec9da1dcee884a3107073d99d7.jpg

 

 

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4 hours ago, hoppy said:

My O/N race was with the Columbia yacht club. There were plenty of C 22, 27 & 34 willing to race back then which made it fun.

When I was planning my return to Melbourne and doing racing, I was focusing on the Melbourne to Devonport until I found out it was cat 2 and what I'd need to get my boat ready. Suddenly I understood why the fleets were so poor and why the Launceston to Hobart was attracting a big fleet including some Vic yachts.

When my uncle did the M-D 30 years ago his Columbia 34 was not updated much to meet the safety standards then. In the same race there were a couple of Columbia 27's and even a 22. Not a chance now.

:(

It's a shame the media doesn't care about sailing here.

one of the biggest hurdles to cat 2 requirement is a HF -  I know ORCV have been offering dispensations if you carry a sat phone for races like M2D to try and entice more participation. 

 

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On 5/23/2017 at 0:31 AM, Last Post said:

Terra Firma, Cookson 50 and Simply Fun, Coombsy's HH42 at Sandy,. Fuck all to get excited about at Royals, Hobbos or Brighton. PC out of the Squaddy is fast by grace of its size compared to what it has to race against but that's about all that can be said about it. The once celebrated Division Zero for bigger, faster boats is long extinct as they have gone the way of the DoDo and the Dinosaur

and in all likelyhood that'll reduce to just Terra Firma once the fun machine finds a new owner. 

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On 26/01/2017 at 10:40 PM, Flatbag said:

Half the problem with the FoS Preso was the poor PA system which couldn't be heard if you were back near the Club,strategically close to the bar as most of us were. It may have been OK for those up close to the stage but the sound had no carry. Even the squalking from the so-called Event Ambassador, the disturbingly self-indulgent and ill prepared Sailor Girl who only turned up halfway through the regatta, was hard to hear.

That should be an easy fix; piss off the self promoting Ambassador and get someone in for the whole event who knows the boats and people better and have a couple more speakers strategically placed near the Club so the whole audience can hear whats going on. I have to agree agree with Couta that the audience was generally bloody rude.

Unfortunately I could only come to half of the regatta because the dates were changed and I was already booked for Key West. So instead I did Hobart, my Nationals, Key West and Festival of Sails back to back to make sure I could support local events.

I had a script to stick to, and I brought as much knowledge of the local sailors as I could to the event - especially given I flew home in June to MC the RGYC presentation night, I knew a lot from the home club.

As for the sound system, that was above my pay grade of helping out.

To each their own though :)

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boat shows in Australia don't make commercial sense for most powerboat manufactures lttle own sailing boat manufactures.  If you ask most the exhibitors they're only there because the competition is.

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28 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

boat shows in Australia don't make commercial sense for most powerboat manufactures lttle own sailing boat manufactures.  If you ask most the exhibitors they're only there because the competition is.

A long, long time ago there used to be TWO boat shows in Melbourne, one for power boats and and the other, a  separate, fully subscribed, Sailboat show with most manufacturers and the few importers at the time represented alongside dinghy and trailerable yacht classes Class Associations and many of the Yacht Clubs, most of the leading sail makers etc.

Sadly none of those yacht manufacturers have survived and such a show is no longer viable for those smaller organisations with the stupendously increased costs of displaying at shows these days.

As for the yacht importers, I would guess it could cost them around $15k to move just one larger yacht in to a show and out again these days. And then you cant rig it because the ceiling is too low in Jeffs Shed. That's why they all show their wares afloat, fully rigged, at the Sydney show, in their natural element, with their state distributors sharing the display costs. It would be cheaper for them to fly their interested buyers up to Sydney than to exhibit one or two yachts to a predominantly disinterested audience in among all the tinnies, ski-boats and runabouts on show down here.

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4 hours ago, hoppy said:

Melbourne is a city of 4 million people and has probably miles more useable coastline than Sydney and the price of living by or near the water is a fraction of that in Sydney and the water area is vast by comparison. The only real problem Melbourne has is the lack of cheaper moorings, but then again the club marinas are much cheaper in Melbourne (I pay 8k at RMYS and when I was at MHYC I asked for a joke and they said $19k)

Weather is a BS excuse. I lived in Sweden for the past 16 years and there your boat is on the hard for 5 to 7 months of the year and for plenty of the spring/summer/autumn months the weather is no better than a poor or good Melbourne winters day. In Sweden they have two big (massive compared to Melbourne) boat shows a year, on in the capital Stockholm and one in the second city Gothenburg (populations 1.4m & 600k) plus Stockholm manages to put on a couple of small floating shows. I accept that Swedish shows have it easier to show larger yachts as they still have manufacturers and I suspect that companies like Beneteau, Jeanneau, Bavaria etc.. take their latest models all around Europe over the winter.  

Yachting in Melbourne should be much bigger than it is and we certainly have a population size that could support a decent boat show but yachting in Melbourne has been badly neglected.

 

 

 

Population size is largely irrelevant because sailors form such a miniscule percentage of that population and boat buying sailors a tiny fraction of that already low number.       The numbers have diminished here over recent years  and are now certainly nowhere near enough to support a viable yacht building industry in this country. Boat shows are not put on by sailors, they are put on by industry, manufacturers and dealers hoping to sell boats and stuff  to sailors.

Just a heads up mate, in case you've been under a rock for the last twenty years,there is NO significant yacht manufacturing left in this country and therefore very little in the way of supporting industry. Yachties who are looking to buy new yachts have been going  to Sydney Boat Shows to check out the ranges of mostly imported yachts displayed there in a central location for decades now. Moving even a few of those yachts huge distances to other boat shows around Australia would be prohibitively expensive with little prospect of anywhere near a worthwhile return on that massive investment. Its just the way it is, tyranny of distance and all that.

If you haven't booked your flights and tickets to the Sydney Boat Show then do yourself a favour and go take a look. Same day return air fares are quite cheap and there, you will find a wide range of yachts and all the peripheral stuff that goes with sailing on display. But you ain't gonna see any of that at Jeffs Shed any time soon.

BTW, There are dozens of successful yacht manufacturers throughout highly populated Europe and thus not too far from Sweden so that's not a valid comparison.

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12 hours ago, hoppy said:

Not under a rock... just living in Europe...

I realise that the boat building industry here is next best thing to dead and I see the point in one main show in Aus for showing off new yachts. However, those of us who own yachts in Melbourne still need to maintain, repair, upgrade, refurbish etc our yachts and there has to be scope to show the "peripheral stuff" at the boat show and of course stands that may encourage the next generation of sailors. Any kids that get taken to the show will only get interested in fishing or wankerboarding zzzzzz.

Yachting Australia and even the state government should put a bit more effort into promoting sailing. Getting the VOR stop over in Melbourne is great except that it only reinforces the elitism side of yachting rather than the ground roots dingy sailing or even that you don't need a best mate who is a rich git with a yacht to sail on keel boats. Yachting Australia/Victoria should have a decent stand at the show, funded by the states sports ministry. 

 

Sounds to me like we have a volunteer to take up the cause..........

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On 6/19/2017 at 10:03 PM, hoppy said:

Not under a rock... just living in Europe...

I realise that the boat building industry here is next best thing to dead and I see the point in one main show in Aus for showing off new yachts. However, those of us who own yachts in Melbourne still need to maintain, repair, upgrade, refurbish etc our yachts and there has to be scope to show the "peripheral stuff" at the boat show and of course stands that may encourage the next generation of sailors. Any kids that get taken to the show will only get interested in fishing or wankerboarding zzzzzz.

Yachting Australia and even the state government should put a bit more effort into promoting sailing. Getting the VOR stop over in Melbourne is great except that it only reinforces the elitism side of yachting rather than the ground roots dingy sailing or even that you don't need a best mate who is a rich git with a yacht to sail on keel boats. Yachting Australia/Victoria should have a decent stand at the show, funded by the states sports ministry. 

 

Not a lot of votes in yachting mate. State Govt will get behind Sail Melbourne with its youth and healthy life style focus but probably not keel boat stuff where "healthy lifestyle" are not the words that immediately spring to mind.

Not much point putting a YA stand in the Melbourne Boat Show these days. The Bogans and pram pushers who attend that show aren't yachties so would have no interest in it at all and without yachts to look at, yachties wouldn't pay to go to the show just to see a YA stand.

Better to put effort into building junior sailing so our sport has a future. Been doing just that for the last 10 years.

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Long time viewer of this thread.

As it is Melbourne Big Boat, I note the Farr 49 Knee Deep has finally sold, any ideas local or interstate?

 

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50 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

Long time viewer of this thread.

As it is Melbourne Big Boat, I note the Farr 49 Knee Deep has finally sold, any ideas local or interstate?

 

?NZ

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On 21/06/2017 at 0:12 PM, hoppy said:

I was one of those pram pushers ;)

I would have thought at least having some dingy's, sailing schools etc in the boat show might be good to promote sailing. Unless you are opposed to having bogans out there sailing... Any potential bogan sailer on the water can mean one less jet ski wanker out there.

Firstly, there was a Foiling Wasp, 29er and Open Bic on display in the foyer, discover sailing (yachting vic) had a booth inside as did Tiwal.nz (inflatable dinghy, very cool) 

There was also a main stage sailing forum including a Volvo Ocean race pro, Jessica Watson and a few others. (check the website or your program you picked up at the front door)

3rd, It all comes down to Economics. As others said it's expensive to get yachts into the show. Retailers would need to sell one of every hull you brought in just to break even, and people with the coin to be serious buyers would have no problem seeing the same yacht at an interstate show of directly at the dealers wet pen. The roof height isn't as bad as suggested, last year 38-South brought a Jeanneau 37 in a got the mast up (looked great) but at the end of the day, Snapper fisherman still make up the bulk of the local attendees followed by families and tyre kickers. 

4th, and this impacts many weekend sports not just sailing. More people work weekends then ever before. retail, car service even banks are open Saturdays. That's a lot of people who don't have time for sailing not to mention that the rich are getting richer and the working class are struggling to meet the cost of modern living. No wonder big boats can't find crew, everyone else is at work making that guy the money that helped him buy the big boat. 

Would love to see a sailing show but it would need to be somewhere inexpensive, be well stocked by industry and well supported by the sailers (chicken/egg) and even then I dare say it would be hard for it to survive economically. 

 

 

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I see the ORCV winter series race 1 was yesterday with a small fleet size of only 11. Most boats from Brighton and the squadron with no SYC boats?

This event a few years ago was the largest winter series event in the bay and appears to be fading in numbers. The SYC local club winter series appears to have far more boats racing during the summer!

I have been racing in this series for years but this year my boat is in the shed having some TLC

Why don't all the Melbourne clubs all get together and run one combined winter series every two weeks to make sure the fleet numbers are up, ie a winter club marine series and maybe mix up the courses between fixed and laid marks and a two handed series?

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1 hour ago, Chucky said:

I see the ORCV winter series race 1 was yesterday with a small fleet size of only 11. Most boats from Brighton and the squadron with no SYC boats?

This event a few years ago was the largest winter series event in the bay and appears to be fading in numbers. The SYC local club winter series appears to have far more boats racing during the summer!

I have been racing in this series for years but this year my boat is in the shed having some TLC

Why don't all the Melbourne clubs all get together and run one combined winter series every two weeks to make sure the fleet numbers are up, ie a winter club marine series and maybe mix up the courses between fixed and laid marks and a two handed series?

The ORCV winter series almost didn't proceed due to lack of entries - a few late ones got it over the line.

CMS in winter?  Nah we'd be finishing races up near StKilda or Royals.

The reason there are few/no SYC boats is their local club races provide more than enough winter sailing - there were 40 SYC boats out racing on Sat.

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According to Suds "maybe the winter series shouldn't be on the same weekend as most of the clubs racing"

???

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1 hour ago, Ockaroo said:

 

Yep, ORCV changed their dates a year or so ago for some reason, so now it's back to back Saturday/Sunday with a lot of clubs winter series. HBYC Brass Monkeys series had 71 boats out on the Saturday (including boats from RYCV & RMYS). Obviously not many want to back it up on the Sunday for another cold sail around the bay.

Ah. Last year/year before I remember it being on 'off' weekends. We're not entered this year, but then it sounds like few are. 

Shame, it was good racing when everyone turned up.

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The ORCV have obviously made a mistake with the winter series schedule.

I also consider their decision with the final race to Geelong being the wrong move as I would prefer to make the last race (with double points) being a short race out of the heads to Western port and back to the heads with a finish line off Port Lonsdale. This type of race will give many ocean race newbies a chance to taste some ocean type racing and then go back to Blairgowrie for a night at the yacht club with a few beers. The Hastings race many years ago used to be a great place to stay after the Hastings race until the marina was filled up with cruising boats but why not use Blairgowrie for celebrating the end of the ORCV winter series.

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5 hours ago, Chucky said:

The ORCV have obviously made a mistake with the winter series schedule.

I also consider their decision with the final race to Geelong being the wrong move as I would prefer to make the last race (with double points) being a short race out of the heads to Western port and back to the heads with a finish line off Port Lonsdale. This type of race will give many ocean race newbies a chance to taste some ocean type racing and then go back to Blairgowrie for a night at the yacht club with a few beers. The Hastings race many years ago used to be a great place to stay after the Hastings race until the marina was filled up with cruising boats but why not use Blairgowrie for celebrating the end of the ORCV winter series.

Because Blairgowrie is as greedy as all fuck these days and would likely want big bucks to use their fancy marina?

Winter ORCV Geelong race was good fun in the past, nice to sail there without having the heart torn from your wallet like it is in January. RGYC is a good club with good people when you take away the FOS razzamatazz and bullshit.

The Queenscliff to Hastings way back when was a great race too, interesting course with tidal influences at both ends and real offshore conditions rounding the Shank. Always amusing watching newbies cutting corners in the WP marina approach channel and even worse getting out again with a skin full of piss and bravado. Any race that goes out the Heads will necessarily add a day to the event and these days, most won't want to do that, particularly in Winter.

We have increasingly become "instant gratification" sailors wanting or at least blindly accepting short races with close proximity starts and finishes so its all over quickly and we can get back to the drudgery of domestic/family duties. Running ORCV Winter Series on the same weekends as major Club winter series racing is just plain dumb. Leave passes for two days in the one weekend are impossible to negotiate for many.

Clearly, ORCV has some serious thinking to do to get that once major series back on track.

 

 

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Our sport continues its decline and our peak body repeats the same story about how hard it's working to provide the support needed to attract, train and retain participants....as it spends our dollars on a chosen few.

So, I thought I'd review the basic recruitment process - an online search - and came up against a few fundamental barriers:

First, I googled "learn to sail melbourne" and found the SA/YA "Discover Sailing" program is listed #5 in the rankings behind several clubs and a couple of professional centres.

I then went to the Discover Sailing website and tried to look up what courses were being offered and where.....

http://discoversailing.org.au/activity-finder/

...only to find that the links were broken.

This is our peak body - and it's nowhere near good enough. The websites are substandard - with poor SEO/Google ranking, layout (not optimised for mobile), search capability, presentation and content. As the portal to our sport, it goes some way to explaining why we're not attracting participants.

From this perspective it looks like SA/YA have thrown the minimum amount of resourcing into this and left it to yacht clubs to do the heavy lifting

Here's a serious challenge - Anyone got an idea or two on How we can we hold SA/YA accountable?

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Couta, I would think the only way would be for lots of members to lobby their own clubs, but I can't really see that happening.

The 'peak body' is and has been rotten for years. You around Glen ?

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Looks like the links are now working - must've been a server overload with all the enquiries on a friday arvo!!!!

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On 7/7/2017 at 6:25 PM, Dark Cloud said:

Bit out of date - still have Chris Carlile as SYC commode

Might as well be , the current one is invisible

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The Australian Yachting Championships being held at SYC in January 2018, NOR is available online.

Racing under AMS is not mentioned.

But, AMS state championship will be held separately with separate NOR and SI's

Not good enough...no longer interested

 

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2 minutes ago, Don said:

The Australian Yachting Championships being held at SYC in January 2018, NOR is available online.

Racing under AMS is not mentioned.

But, AMS state championship will be held separately with separate NOR and SI's

Not good enough...no longer interested

 

AMS is in competition with the systems Australian sailing gouge owners for, not likely to be run in conjunction.

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This is why club sailors are becoming disenchanted with Australian Sailing. The perfect opportunity to provide an all inclusive regatta, and they deny the entry of boats to race in the primary Victorian rating system. Very narrow minded, and ultimately detrimental to sailing.

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Surely you don't consider AMS a credible rating system with its hidden and wildly inconsistent subjective factor?

I guess its cheap enough, so that's the real appeal to the punters when comparing with IRC.

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54 minutes ago, Don said:

This is why club sailors are becoming disenchanted with Australian Sailing. The perfect opportunity to provide an all inclusive regatta, and they deny the entry of boats to race in the primary Victorian rating system. Very narrow minded, and ultimately detrimental to sailing.

AS hate AMS and will never support it, which is why SYC cannot run a 'national' AMS champs.

But seriously, National championships in Aus are a wank - they are really State champs as the country is geographically too big for most interstaters to turn up.

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13 minutes ago, Last Post said:

Surely you don't consider AMS a credible rating system with its hidden and wildly inconsistent subjective factor?

I guess its cheap enough, so that's the real appeal to the punters when comparing with IRC.

And IRC doesn't have a hidden subjective factor?  Race results look closer across AMS than IRC

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No less credible than IRC from that perspective, and more credible when it comes to rating light displacement yachts fairer. Haven't you noticed the IRC type forming of 36 to 48 foot yachts in the last 18 months or so. Who can tell a Mills, from a Kerr, from a J/V etc, and you will never convince me they are pretty to look at i.e. the HH42

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35 minutes ago, Dark Cloud said:

And IRC doesn't have a hidden subjective factor?  Race results look closer across AMS than IRC

Granted, but the subjective factor in AMS is subject to much greater human, as opposed to mathematical, input and thus the wild inconsistencies.

All rating systems are eventually type forming.

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8 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

AS hate AMS and will never support it, which is why SYC cannot run a 'national' AMS champs.

But seriously, National championships in Aus are a wank - they are really State champs as the country is geographically too big for most interstaters to turn up.

So do what we used to do in the Magic 25's.... YA won't ratify the class in time to hold a nationals? Fuck it - come sail "the Magic 25 Intergalactic championships."

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20 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

AS hate AMS and will never support it, which is why SYC cannot run a 'national' AMS champs.

But seriously, National championships in Aus are a wank - they are really State champs as the country is geographically too big for most interstaters to turn up.

So here's a message to YA.

I will not support the AYC unless you include AMS.

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6 hours ago, Don said:

So here's a message to YA.

I will not support the AYC unless you include AMS.

Do you seriously believe AS would give a shit?

They already have nearly the entry numbers that they had for their last series in Sydney so look for them to trumpet loudly what a huge success it  is going to be. So far there's a less than impressive interstate entry - 1 boat but I m sure more will sign up in coming months. Surely Karl-Gav can't resist the temptation to take the candy from the kiddies one more time to keep that prime spot on his mantelpiece occupied.

SYC may choose to run a concurrent series for AMS and possible even PHD but I doubt  it would be AS sanctioned as a "National" Championship.

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Don't get me wrong, I would love to do this regatta. But why should boats and crew entering under AMS NOT be participants in the Australian Yachting Championships, especially as AMS is the only Australian rating system in use.

But multihulls using OMR are invited.

AYC 2018 NoR Rev 0.docx

1.RULES
1.1 The regatta will be governed by the rules as defined in:
a) The Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS) of World Sailing;
B) IRC Rules Parts A, B and C where applicable;
c) ORCi Rating System Rules where applicable;
d) OMR rating rules where applicable.

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AMS is not a Nationally accepted rating system. Most other states have seen it for what it is and elected not to adopt it, a conspiracy theorist might say "possibly under pressure from AS" but whatever, that's the way it is.

From the SYC Website:

19 – 21 January 2018

Sandringham Yacht Club is pleased to announce the 2018 SYC Regatta incorporating the Australian Yachting Championships.

Australian Sailing’s premier keelboat event, the Australian Yachting Championships is being hosted by SYC in 2018 after being hosted previously at Hamilton Island and Sydney in 2017.

The SYC Regatta will include a range of sailing events including various handicap series.

With after race entertainment and celebrations, put this regatta in your diary as a must do event.

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26 minutes ago, Last Post said:

AMS is not a Nationally accepted rating system. Most other states have seen it for what it is and elected not to adopt it, a conspiracy theorist might say "possibly under pressure from AS" but whatever, that's the way it is.

Not quite correct - it is the largest rating system in Vic, SA, Tas, is in use in WA and just now being adopted in QLD.

NSW though is the red-headed stepchild

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And the only reason that it is big in those states is that it is CHEAP, not because it is better.  The old saying "the bitterness of poor quality linger longer than the sweetness of a cheap price"

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But it is certainly no worse either, just far better value.

And as someone who has just done the analysis of IRC vs AMS for our local fleet the difference are generally nothing to complain about for our fleet.

There a few strange ones like a Farr 30 speeds up against a Mumm 36.

And a First 40 gets sped up a little and is closer to a Sydney 38 .

Overall there is surprisingly little difference at least against a known base boat.

And please don't post without doing the comparison against  a known base not against two types of boats under two systems you will not get the right answers.

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Yep TRT - you've obviously given that a lot of thought.

 

Hoppy, AMS is from memory $75 - IRC is $ x boat length - for a 35ft boat roughly $330 - of which about 2/3 goes into the pockets of AS / YA

Nice to know we can run our revered Aus Champs under the not used ORCi

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Don't laugh, in the later 1970s the Sharpie fleet held a regatta in Port Moresby and called the World Championship.

Doug Trott who won was always referred to by Ian Grant a sailing journo (sort of)  as "World Champion Doug Trott".

 

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15 minutes ago, lydia said:

Don't laugh, in the later 1970s the Sharpie fleet held a regatta in Port Moresby and called the World Championship.

Doug Trott who won was always referred to by Ian Grant a sailing journo (sort of)  as "World Champion Doug Trott".

 

Stripey (RIP) a "sort of" journo :lol:.... lets just say he had a unique literary style. I miss his work, he was one of a kind.

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