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Brian Weslake

Old ACC rule or new 90 footer rule?

Which class would you prefer to see in the America's Cup  

349 members have voted

  1. 1. Pick a design rule

    • I like narrow gutted leadmines, old rule for me!
      118
    • I like em big and fast, 90 feet is almost big enough.
      171


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Before this cup finished lots of people wanted the AC class changed to something bigger, faster and more exciting. Now that the change to the 90 footer has been announced it seems like there are quite a few people that will miss the close racing of the old class.

 

So what's it to be? Who is sad to see the old rule go, and who is looking forward to the new class?

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Before this cup finished lots of people wanted the AC class changed to something bigger, faster and more exciting. Now that the change to the 90 footer has been announced it seems like there are quite a few people that will miss the close racing of the old class.

 

So what's it to be? Who is sad to see the old rule go, and who is looking forward to the new class?

 

I'm all for the new class. The designers are bored with the current ACC, let them have something to really get their teeth into. Not so keen on other stuff from the new protocol though.

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Before this cup finished lots of people wanted the AC class changed to something bigger, faster and more exciting. Now that the change to the 90 footer has been announced it seems like there are quite a few people that will miss the close racing of the old class.

 

So what's it to be? Who is sad to see the old rule go, and who is looking forward to the new class?

 

New Class - with design parameters published quickly to level the field. Time and technology has to move on, even though I think things as they stand favours the defender.

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Although I think we are headed back to the land of the 5-0 sweeps I voted for the new boats. Boat innovations were missing in the last Cup, and seeing who comes up with what is as much fun as the racing so I'm cautiously optimistic about the new boat.

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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I think new big boats will be great, but make em bigger! 100, 110, come on!

 

or bring back 12m'ss and sail em in 20+

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I wish it was now canting keel and it would be great if the bulbs had to be made of GOLD !

:)

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I'd personally prefer smaller more manuverable boats with a lot of openings for creativity on design

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Eh, I don't know how much more maneuverable than the ACCs you're going to get. They're able to put these boats through some maneuvers that would make dinghy sailors blush.

 

There was a start in 03, Oracle vs. OneWorld where Oracle was able to do a 360 in about a boat length and squeeze through a gap between the pin and the OWC boat that couldn't have been more than 25 feet wide. It was amazing to watch.

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If the new design rule were to be created in the open, I'd be all for it.

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leave it how it is... not the sweetist boats for the money, my geez, look at the delta on the last race of the AC, they dont get much closer.

 

racing like we saw there is what the cup it about, not just a typical big boat drag race...

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13 Topics related to this Question about changing boats on the first page alone, can you say REPOST!!!....Here's my 2-cents, bad fucking move! I fail to see any clear benefit other than the money the designers and the sailmakers will make, but hey, they would have made money in the next campaign because everyone would have wanted new boats and sails anyway! Back to 5-0 sweeps; I can see that....does anyone really think there will be close-hauled match racing with bigger boats?....if it's bigger/faster boats you want, change gears and watch NASCAR. Sailing just isn't about bigger and faster, hell, fuck it, why not just go to Catamarans then! Bigger boats mean more separation, wow, that will be fun to watch on TV. We've all just witnessed the pinnacle of design, evolution, and sailing, and I think everyone agrees this was probably the best AC cup in the last 20 years, why do you suppose that is?

 

Something nobody has mentioned; these boats are tough, the days of the broken boats and broken masts are over, we are in that corner of the box where the boats/sails are near equal, and it's evolution has brought about peak performance...isn't that where we want it? when it boils down to Sailing and Tactics, Crew work, blood, sweat and tears! We've gotten closer to an equal playing field than we've been at since Fremantle...I just don't understand why anyone would support a change.

 

What I got out of this AC cup was a reinvigorating feeling that we have finally matured to this point of cream of the crop match racing with a platform that has been improved each time.....now what I'm getting is we are in for some troubled waters, a lot of what if's, a lot of Sea Lawyers, opening up pandora's box, can of worms, the propensity of failure, less challengers maybe, gee great guys, way to go!

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I would like to see one more AC under the old rule. I'd anticipate the racing might be even closer.

This should attract more attention and help our sport grow. Then push the envelope and go 90-feet.

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This makes me think abouit a fleet of Wild Oats,Alpha,Maximus,etc etc minus the canter bit and probably a whole bunch of offshore requirements as well.

Very very cool.

A huge amount of design work,and tweaking of that work,is currently in place.Actuall boats are racing now,great start platform for the designers.

Close,fast and exciting racing,easily(relative)availiable to any country or Team who wants to be involved.

This could be the start of an actual World Cup of racing big boats.

Me,I can't wait.

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This makes me think abouit a fleet of Wild Oats,Alpha,Maximus,etc etc minus the canter bit and probably a whole bunch of offshore requirements as well.

Very very cool.

A huge amount of design work,and tweaking of that work,is currently in place.Actuall boats are racing now,great start platform for the designers.

Close,fast and exciting racing,easily(relative)availiable to any country or Team who wants to be involved.

This could be the start of an actual World Cup of racing big boats.

Me,I can't wait.

 

 

Well if Larry's challenge goes ahead and Alinghi refuse to negotiate, the challenger will be a 90 foot trimaran. I wonder what Alinghi would put up against that? I gather anything up to 90' static waterline is allowed.

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Well if Larry's challenge goes ahead and Alinghi refuse to negotiate, the challenger will be a 90 foot trimaran. I wonder what Alinghi would put up against that? I gather anything up to 90' static waterline is allowed.

 

A 90' cat?

 

Makes you wonder if Seb Schmidt and the Decision yard have been given a call - "Um, guys....hi. You remember my nice cat you built a few years ago? Predecessor to the M35s? Well, we need something like that. Only 90'"

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I wish it was now canting keel and it would be great if the bulbs had to be made of GOLD !

:)

 

Have they specifically included or excluded Canters - or have they not mentioned the 'C' word at all!

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How fucking boring would that be to watch,sure speed machines in every weather condition,but no way are they manuverable enough to be match racing boats.

It really needs to be close,boat on boat stuff,fast and responsive,able to tack and tack again and tack again....

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the change is good

 

it will give new teams a chance to get a result instead of paying shitloads for a designer to try to get 10seconds a leg out of a design that is going nowhere

 

if the difference is only what we saw in the LV and then in the final between nz and the swiss after throwing a squillion at that design then they need a change or the cup will be between only a few teams/

 

the change will get a host of new talent into the cup and everyone with the exception of the rule makers will have an even chance.

 

that is just the history of the cup as the winner and hence the rule makers have always had an advantage that is why no one won the fucker for 132 years from the seppos

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Well lets see, my 2 cents.

 

 

1983 & 87, exciting racing with a well matured design criteria. Then change to a new boat in 1992 and get several rounds of boring matches, excepting for the change of hands of the Cup.

 

 

2007, exciting racing with a well matured design criteria. Then change to a new boat in 2009-11 and get several rounds of boring matches, excepting for something...

 

 

2017, exciting racing with a well matured design criteria...............................................................

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At the end of this story we'r gonna see The Rising Sun against Vava,

or similar boring races.

 

If America's Cup will become principal sailing world event, then it should roll from consensual to majoritarian decision-making rules, otherwise we'll never see an unbiased confrontation.

Maybe it's time to think about a quite deep mind change.

 

For the good of sport.

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Funny Nascar reference - didn't they just force everyone into "the car of tomorrow" which was a de-tuned rig to make it more competitive?

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Funny Nascar reference - didn't they just force everyone into "the car of tomorrow" which was a de-tuned rig to make it more competitive?

 

#1 was a change to improve saftey factors wthin the design of the frame, roll cage and and area around the driver, expidited after Dale Earnhardt's death at Daytona in 2001.

 

#2 was to tighten the rules around the body and other technical design areas to produce a more 'uniform' shape to the production cars instead of the distortions allowed between the measurement points for aero purposes.

 

#3 was to make it where you did not need 20-30 cars a year to compete, having a special car for each type of track. The COT will require maybe only 5-6 cars, to provide adequate time to turn the cars around between races for maintenance. Eliminates the need for specialty cars. (road course, super-speedway, shortrack, intermediate tracks)

 

#4 the small teams were getting killed having to keep two car types running, depending on which race was coming up.

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Interesting....Maybe a "NASCAR" rule would work in the AC. Have one team of designers make a fleet of AC boats, all the same, and all the challengers and the defender would have to purchase said yachts from that one source - of course they could choose their own colors......even, all the way across the board!

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the rules better state a fucken 35kts limit, not 15. The only problem is that they may still look like snails as they move across a tv screen. Keep in mind these guys already average speeds most of us would dream of. I think maybe if they make the rule favor real tender boats it may be more interesting for the non sailors, because they would be moving around a lot.

 

The worst part though is that they just got the boats dialed in so that they are close. Why change it now? Its close racing that will make this interesting, not raw speed that probably wont be seen in a boat that big. If an I18 goes 15kts, you can see that speed. The current boats already do that. If they want interesting high speed sailing on tv they should show the I18 circuit. I really dont think they should change it now.

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Interesting....Maybe a "NASCAR" rule would work in the AC. Have one team of designers make a fleet of AC boats, all the same, and all the challengers and the defender would have to purchase said yachts from that one source - of course they could choose their own colors......even, all the way across the board!

 

Hey - I kinda like the idea. Better still, a fleet comprising as many boats as competitors, built to same design specifications/construction standards. Team's own sails (for sponsorship). Rotate useage of boats. Defender to qualify same as every other team (what other sport allows the defender to meeting the winner of all other challengers? There might have only been 2 possible teams in 1851, things have moved on).

 

Make it a cup of sailing ability, kinda like the olympics classes.

 

Meanwhile, introduce an 'everything goes' competition, allowing any designs to compete. Crew/design/build/entry limited to a single nationality. Arrange a series of challenges; Southern Ocean drag race, regatta series etc etc - make it a test of the boat, and the crew's ability to get the best from it.

 

Yeah, I know... too much time on my hands! :huh:

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I'm not sure how you make a good boat out of the initial specifications. A ninety-footer of reasonable displacement for match racing does not need a 6.5m draft. You think the current boats are narrow? Look out, the next ones may be razor thin. Or they may have some REALLY odd bumps and flair to account for the necessary spreader width to hold the mast up or the necessary sheeting angles to sail the things. Or perhaps they'll put in some girth minimums or beam limits which will make the designers put even uglier bumps on them. Yuck.

 

Unless of course, they make them really light weight, in which case the racing will just suck, plain and simple. The fact is that the racing is better when the boats are stuck to the water.

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Interesting....Maybe a "NASCAR" rule would work in the AC. Have one team of designers make a fleet of AC boats, all the same, and all the challengers and the defender would have to purchase said yachts from that one source - of course they could choose their own colors......even, all the way across the board!

 

 

Intead of design specs just make templates that the boats would have to fit into, and be checked before each race. Then the winner would have to go back and get checked in a post-race teardown.

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How fucking boring would that be to watch,sure speed machines in every weather condition,but no way are they manuverable enough to be match racing boats.

It really needs to be close,boat on boat stuff,fast and responsive,able to tack and tack again and tack again....

 

 

Fucking boring ? Humm... I guess the 60 footer trimarans Grand Prix that we had in France in the past years were not that boring ! Of course, tacks are a little bit longer ! But these yachts have fantastic close tacking duels. To see these machines reaching at 30 + knots, beating on one single hull and jumping in the air could provide a more exciting TV coverage and photo shots.

 

I like multihulls and I have sailed and raced with them since my vey young years. However, I am not sure they would be the ideal yacht for the future America's Cup. I would have preferred a development of the light long luge that Ian Murray had designed for the 1988 America's Cup. Dennis Conner and Michael Fay were quite frightened by the VPP predictions of that project, according a very recent discussion with a reputed America's Cup historian. A pity the New York Court allowed one single challenger to meet the S&S catamaran in San Diego. Dennis would have been in Big Trouble !

 

Fair winds !

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Silver keels, Golden winches, diamond blocks, silk sails...new rules, bigger boats...Farr 40's, TP 53, GP42, AC 90's (?)...

Who's the best?...who the f%$# knowns anymore...it's all about money, and spinning the fortune wheel...

Cheers!!

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Interesting....Maybe a "NASCAR" rule would work in the AC. Have one team of designers make a fleet of AC boats, all the same, and all the challengers and the defender would have to purchase said yachts from that one source - of course they could choose their own colors......even, all the way across the board!

 

isnt that called one design?

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The AC has been brilliant over the years and has been a big source of innovations in yacht design (cunningham, and crew work (Mexican drops, etc.). These innovations have helped transform sailing but the point has been reached now where boats are so optimised that they're almost exactly the same. In AC31 new ideas were mostly confined to rule beating optimisations which, were next to useless for the rest of the sailing world: we we ever see another hula?

 

Now it's a one design race where all the best designers and hundreds of millions of euros of research are wasted on things that will be of little benefit to future generations of sailors. Yes, the racing was compelling and close but to continue down the current road is just a waste of money unless they bite the bullet and go all the way to one designs. There are no more big improvements within this rule as big changes are too much of a risk.

 

The only thing worse would be multis. Multis are fun but I got the impression that GGYC's challenge was the nuclear option to try and force Alinghi to make changes. Multis are an acquired taste and I don't think they should ever be in the America's Cup again. The AC is about monos and should stay that way.

 

There's so much going on in yacht design that just isn't making it into the AC. Canting keels etc. It would be relatively easy to create a box rule that allowed canting keels (and other ideas) but allowed more conventional boats an equal chance to win. Look at ABN AMRO winning the VOR.

 

I want to see good racing but I also want to look at the boats and go "wow I wonder when we're gonna start seeing that on real world boats"

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The AC has been brilliant over the years and has been a big source of innovations in yacht design (cunningham, and crew work (Mexican drops, etc.). These innovations have helped transform sailing but the point has been reached now where boats are so optimised that they're almost exactly the same. In AC31 new ideas were mostly confined to rule beating optimisations which, were next to useless for the rest of the sailing world: we we ever see another hula?

 

Now it's a one design race where all the best designers and hundreds of millions of euros of research are wasted on things that will be of little benefit to future generations of sailors. Yes, the racing was compelling and close but to continue down the current road is just a waste of money unless they bite the bullet and go all the way to one designs. There are no more big improvements within this rule as big changes are too much of a risk.

 

Realising the fact that the marginal value of further research is negligable, shouldn't this fact allow - if the current rules would be kept - new teams to build good enough boats at a fraction of the costs of this edition?

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Realising the fact that the marginal value of further research is negligable, shouldn't this fact allow - if the current rules would be kept - new teams to build good enough boats at a fraction of the costs of this edition?

 

That didn't stop Oracle spending $200m allegedly this time around. If the speed differences are negligible and innovations consist of tiny changes in the shape then it would be better to save everyone a fortune and just make them all one designs.

 

Then it really would be just about better crewed boats.

 

Repeating AC32 will just make the top professional sailors very rich and tie up the best designers on something that can't really be described as designing a new boat.

 

They need to go one way or another.

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Realising the fact that the marginal value of further research is negligable, shouldn't this fact allow - if the current rules would be kept - new teams to build good enough boats at a fraction of the costs of this edition?

 

I couldn't see TNZ or LR handing over their deign & engineering specs to a newbie and the cost of building one of these things will still cost a shit load ( mainly in rig & sails & fittings ) . As stated in previous posts most of the concesous ( on this site ) is for a 1D boat so "we" can get to play with new developments & witnessing the Crew win a race ( as opposed to the boat ) .

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Bring on the freaky monster multi hulls!

I'd watch the likes of Hydroptere, Sodebo, Orange II and Groupama III fight it out for the America's Cup!

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Bring on the freaky monster multi hulls!

I'd watch the likes of Hydroptere, Sodebo, Orange II and Groupama III fight it out for the America's Cup!

 

I suppose you like stock car racing as well? ;)

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I couldn't see TNZ or LR handing over their deign & engineering specs to a newbie and the cost of building one of these things will still cost a shit load ( mainly in rig & sails & fittings ) . As stated in previous posts most of the concesous ( on this site ) is for a 1D boat so "we" can get to play with new developments & witnessing the Crew win a race ( as opposed to the boat ) .

 

 

I suppose the pure building costs will be about the same for everybody, give or take a million. :-) Most of the design features are visible, so they should be reproduceable. And the structural engineering should be inducable from the design.

 

For certain, there is a steep entry price to pay, but given the observable knowledge what was fast this time, and the time before, and so on till 1992 I think everybody is at the end of the learning curve, and doubling or trippling or tenfolding the spending on R&D will not make the difference. See the case of Shosholoza, who were able to build a sufficiently fast boat the first time around with a fraction of the R&D of say Oracle.

 

I like the idea of racing 33 in the old boats and developing and publishing the new rule for 34 now, so they can have fairly developed boats by 2012. But I guess for that the AC would have to be centrally organized like the F1 - make the ACM indipendent of SNG for example. And incorporating that change into the deed of gift would make a battalion of lawyers very rich.

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I suppose the pure building costs will be about the same for everybody, give or take a million. :-) Most of the design features are visible, so they should be reproduceable. And the structural engineering should be inducable from the design.

 

For certain, there is a steep entry price to pay, but given the observable knowledge what was fast this time, and the time before, and so on till 1992 I think everybody is at the end of the learning curve, and doubling or trippling or tenfolding the spending on R&D will not make the difference. See the case of Shosholoza, who were able to build a sufficiently fast boat the first time around with a fraction of the R&D of say Oracle.

 

I like the idea of racing 33 in the old boats and developing and publishing the new rule for 34 now, so they can have fairly developed boats by 2012. But I guess for that the AC would have to be centrally organized like the F1 - make the ACM indipendent of SNG for example. And incorporating that change into the deed of gift would make a battalion of lawyers very rich.

 

You'd get all the main challengers to agree on a rule for AC34 so everyone can start planning. Then you hope that one of them wins and keeps to the gentleman's agreement. It would be in everyone's interest to agree a rule so that they could work on it now. You'd hope that the winner wouldn't have the balls to screw up the entire AC by forking it (as would surely happen if the boats were already built and someone tried to pull a fast one).

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You'd get all the main challengers to agree on a rule for AC34 so everyone can start planning. Then you hope that one of them wins and keeps to the gentleman's agreement. It would be in everyone's interest to agree a rule so that they could work on it now. You'd hope that the winner wouldn't have the balls to screw up the entire AC by forking it (as would surely happen if the boats were already built and someone tried to pull a fast one).

 

Well, seeing how people can screw things up as they do now, would anybody have the necessary good faith that the winner would keep his word? Somewhere i read: "Trusting in god is showing a lot of courage!"

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I suppose you like stock car racing as well? ;)

 

Nah not really, no sails on a stock car :)

I just love big multi's, nothing beats a big tri flying two hulls for dramatic and Hydroptere is just a speed monster (anyone who hasn't seen a massive foiling tri doing 47 odds knots really needs to do a search youtube).

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I suppose you like stock car racing as well? ;)

 

There were more passes for the lead in this last Cup than probably the whole F1 season.

 

The Daytona 500 has more passes for the lead than F1 in the first few laps. So I would not want an F1 style of governance for the AC. Maybe the France family needs to manage the AC.

 

Stick with the existing rule, the boats are finally close enough in design to make things more competitive. Start over and then the race will go back to boring for quite a long time. They are almost close enough now to be one design but different enough to allow for some creativity.

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trouble is ..are there enough top designers to build a Cup winning boat to go around all the teams.

Its quiet often mentioned in F1 that there are only 3-4 guys smart enough to design a car for the front row so even when you spend money like BAR and Toyota you will never get anywhere.

The results speak for themselves over the last 20 years

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While it isn't my money, In the end we all pay for it in one way or another. How are the poorer teams meant to compete?

 

I vote for racing in 20+ year old Catalina 30's! Then you could get are more entries from countries like:

Kiribati

The Cook Islands

Tonga

Palau

Anguilla

Nauru

Wallis and Futuna

Saint Pierre and Miquelon

Montserrat

Saint Helena

Tuvalu

Niue

Tokelau

Hell...... even Canada!

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I think it is key to remember how much technology has advanced in the 15+ years since the last rule change before the '92 cup. Computation Fluid Dynamics for sails, hulls, keels and rudders, including shear and wave perturbations; Finite Element Analysis for structures, fittings and their assemblies; as well as the Velocity Prediction Programs of the leading yacht design firms. I'm confident a new design rule will be optimized much faster than the previous rule was.

More importantly, I would like to see a rule that directs development towards innovations that can help all sailors, or at least those on medium to large yachts. Formula 1 has proposed some dramatic changes to the technical regulations to be implemented in 2011. Regenerative braking with the energy captured delivered to all four wheels, heat energy extraction, the return of turbo motors, running on pump gas derived from 10% biofuels. All of these are proposed with the intent that F1, while still the pinacle, will be relevant to development of mass produced automobiles. The automotive manufacturers are thrilled. Now, hundreds of some of the brightest people in the world, will not toil their lives away developing some rediculous looking aerodynamic barge board that will only have relevance to two cars for perhaps two races for one season. Team engineers will now learn things that they can apply at any auto manufacturer.

A key point of F1's development, however, is that F1 cars still be able to lap tracks in less time than any other cars in the world. Slow ecological cars would not be interesting to watch, but spectacular eco cars will win both hearts and minds. F1 wins, we win.

As noted previously, billionaire egos will spend whatever they can in pursuit of the Cup, I'm excited that they may spend money on designs that may make my future boat faster.

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I'm excited that they may spend money on designs that may make my future boat faster.

 

Good post.

 

Not for speed, but maybe some of the new sliding keel designs will flow down?

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The boats they use now are fine in terms of size- change the course to include a reaching leg.

Derek

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I would have preferred a development of the light long luge that Ian Murray had designed for the 1988 America's Cup. Dennis Conner and Michael Fay were quite frightened by the VPP predictions of that project
I don't seem to recall hearing about this, any more info? When you say 'luge' do you mean something like a scow?

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STP65.

 

Big enough to be awesome on the line.

 

Small enough to have 20-30 teams.

 

Great, simple, fast rule. Similar to many race boats of today so that technology will trickle down.

 

The ACC design is nice, but obsolete.

 

The new 90 footers will mean few teams will sign up.

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Two factors are at play. Traditionally, the AC has been sailed in the largest boats used for racing. When the ACC rule was adopted before the 1992 AC, the largest boats were the 80 foot maxis, with the ACC class not far behind. Since then the maxi87 class was built, and then the current crop of 100 footers. That puts the ACC boats a good ways behind on size. The second factor is that the type-forming aspect of the current rule is in full bloom (at least for Valencia conditions), and even the best technological approach is yielding much less in terms of a boat speed advantage, which means that the defender can expect that most of the challengers are likely to be very close in speed.

 

So why not change to a new class that will be bigger, potentially more exciting, and also give the defender a potential speed advantage.

 

The downside is that it is unlikely that we will see as close racing, but Hey, only the loser likes a close race.

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Th AC will only be special when it uses a unique design, not something world-wide.

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The boats they use now are fine in terms of size- change the course to include a reaching leg.

Derek

 

Better yet, make 'em sail those courses that the kids in the Bics used. Design of the boat is totally open but we're not going to tell you which course you are sailing till you get out there.

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Two factors are at play. Traditionally, the AC has been sailed in the largest boats used for racing. When the ACC rule was adopted before the 1992 AC, the largest boats were the 80 foot maxis, with the ACC class not far behind. Since then the maxi87 class was built, and then the current crop of 100 footers. That puts the ACC boats a good ways behind on size. The second factor is that the type-forming aspect of the current rule is in full bloom (at least for Valencia conditions), and even the best technological approach is yielding much less in terms of a boat speed advantage, which means that the defender can expect that most of the challengers are likely to be very close in speed.

 

So why not change to a new class that will be bigger, potentially more exciting, and also give the defender a potential speed advantage.

 

The downside is that it is unlikely that we will see as close racing, but Hey, only the loser likes a close race.

 

" Traditionally, the AC has been sailed in the largest boats used for racing."

 

Not sure about that.

 

In the late 1800s there was a lot of schooner racing in the UK and USA. Racing schooners ranged up to 496 tons in both countries. At the time, America's Cup boats were around 167 tons (Valkyrie III of 1895) or 138 tons (Vigilant of 1893). So the AC boats were pretty small.

 

Even compared to other inshore racing cutters, there wasn't much of an edge in size between AC boats and non-AC boats; the "Big Class" cutters Satanita and Meteor seem to be longer on the LWL than the AC boats.

 

If we flip forward to the 1900s, we see even bigger schooners like the 532 ton Atlantic, 400 ton Meteor IV, 336 ton Germania, and 330 ton Westward (96 feet LWL). In contrast, Reliance, biggest AC boat ever, was 175 tons displacement and 44m/144 feet overall on an 89' LWL. Ranger, the super J, was 166 tons displacement and 135ft/41.2m overall on about 87' LWL, so they were much smaller than the racing schooners (which were inshore and offshore boats). Some earlier Js were 10%' shorter LWL than the old cutters like Brittania, which they raced against in the UK.

 

When the 12s were selected they were distinctly smaller than the CCA 73s, the 90 foot Gitana which did the UK circuit, and the 1950s Transpac racers like Goodwill (161' Schooner), Morning Star (98' schooner), or the 82' Sirius II.

 

So the AC boats have not normally been the biggest racing boats; maybe for about 10% or less of their history. If we want to be historically correct in selecting a class, they should be perhaps be suitable for racing in other events before or after their AC campaign, like the early boats, the 90s, the Js and the 12s were.

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Better yet, make 'em sail those courses that the kids in the Bics used. Design of the boat is totally open but we're not going to tell you which course you are sailing till you get out there.

 

Better yet let the losing team pick the course for the next day :-)

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Completely new (or extremely old) idea for the new class rule: http://www.abora3.de/index-eng.html

 

Advantages:

- Environmentally friendly: Almost CO2 neutral in manufacturing and maintenance, easily disposable and biodegradable (very important nowadays to attract sponsors and to justify any engagement in "technology sports")

- Financially manageable: no autoclaves needed, no exotic materials

- Level playing field for designers and engineers of old and new teams likewise because of the completely new (or rather ancient) methods, materials and processes

- The physical fitness of the sailors will come to the fore again.

 

Disadvantages:

- Well... o.k., it probably isn't really the top of technology, is it? But look at the mass of advantages... ;)

 

Have a nice end of the week.

Cheers - (silly) Rennmaus

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There was a rule this time round regarding masts which said that you could use any mast that was more than 10 years old, regardless of height or anything...

 

Why not apply this universally, but make it so that everything used has to be more than 10 years old (or even older). Change it from a design competition to a scavenging competion, then we would see some different ideas....?

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There was a rule this time round regarding masts which said that you could use any mast that was more than 10 years old, regardless of height or anything...

 

Why not apply this universally, but make it so that everything used has to be more than 10 years old (or even older). Change it from a design competition to a scavenging competion, then we would see some different ideas....?

 

hope your taking the piss :unsure:

 

& we'll call it IMS ....... :ph34r:

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OK I've heard that alterations of the hull can be up to 60+% of it's form . Running on rumours so flame/inform of this situation if incorrect ( newbie up the wrong way in shit creek .. maybe ? ) .

If this was true could a modified AC32 be altered to the extent of being a suitable training boat for the proposed new rule concidering the 1 boat programme being advertised . I know a lot can be done but ........

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seems nobody really touched on the part of the rule"90' long, 90' wide. There is alot of room for design. Certainly not going to be a level playing field. Love pushing to 90'. Just keep it monohull. This was the closest most exciting cup yet. Why not give a small time frame for the next cup and keep the design relatively close. Its only about a ten foot increase. Make it a goddamn sport/competion, not an asswhoopin! unless the US does the ass whoopin.

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OK I've heard that alterations of the hull can be up to 60+% of it's form . Running on rumours so flame/inform of this situation if incorrect ( newbie up the wrong way in shit creek .. maybe ? ) .

If this was true could a modified AC32 be altered to the extent of being a suitable training boat for the proposed new rule concidering the 1 boat programme being advertised . I know a lot can be done but ........

 

That would be quite a "stretch", wouldn't it?

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I would like to see a 50 foot boat for the AC. Something like a Melges 32 on steroids. I want to see them up on plane.... I want to see wipe outs! It's a sport boat world so lets see a sport boat on steroids. Make it a wicked one design event and bring back nationality rules. Smaller boat plus Nationality rules = Better racing that is actually about sailing and not design..... much more affordable which will encourage better participation. The AC needs to be about Sailing and Nations.

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Piece of advice to BMWO: if it is a box rule, according to the DoG, you just have to build A 90' x √2 long trimaran, with short cross-beams and lateral hull, so that it fits within the 90'/90' "box" delimited by the DoG. I wonder what Judge Cahn's ruling on this will be...

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Let them build 125 footers or bigger. If these ego maniacial fat cats want to build a boat that big, let 'em. It'll be sweet seeing a 200' carbon mast and a $100k main blown to smithereens. It will be great theater, but stupid nonetheless. I can't wait.

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How much does a scrap ACC boat run to these days? Its a good job the price of lead has gone up! Its a shocking waste of money and development though. I think canting keels would be rubbish but they could lead to some interesting collision calls pre-start though

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