K9u20

Older well known IOR Boats

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Oh, the good old times at the bow...

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Never forget on Southern Straits in the PNW on Earl Miller's Miller 44, we needed to change sails, had one sail in the feeder, the new sheet on another and one still up.  I was a punk kid driving and started yelling at the foredeck guys, a good friend and great sailor ran back and stood over me in the cockpit and called me a "POMPOUS COCKPIT ASS", I really though I had made it.

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:D You had definitely arrived.

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10 hours ago, dolphinmaster said:

Um,   asym millenials have no clue what a peel is.

Or the beauty of a properly executed jibe set. I would step in as a second pit person on the topper so that we could have the kite halyard hit the masthead and the topper up simultaneously. When it went right it was a thing of beauty. I think it was a King's Cup in Thailand (yarn bands were still allowed) when we did this so well on a biggish boat that we needed a cocktail to celebrate it.

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11 hours ago, dolphinmaster said:

Um,   asym millenials have no clue what a peel is.

Such a shame really... back when being a bowmen meant something and the back of the boat could kill you!!

To not have lived with teak decks, wire sheets and halyards is... wait, that's my nightmare

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10 minutes ago, Liquid said:

To not have lived with teak decks, wire sheets and halyards is... wait, that's my nightmare

Chartered a Swan 441 with teak decks, wire sheets and guys and halyards for a Big Boat Series. The loads on the guys in 30 knots were pretty interesting since the boat couldn't exceed about 9 knots unless you dropped it from a C-5 cargo plane.

My boat had teak decks (now glass) and wire halyards (now vectran). Some modern things aren't so bad, actually.

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37 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Chartered a Swan 441 with teak decks, wire sheets and guys and halyards for a Big Boat Series. The loads on the guys in 30 knots were pretty interesting since the boat couldn't exceed about 9 knots unless you dropped it from a C-5 cargo plane.

My boat had teak decks (now glass) and wire halyards (now vectran). Some modern things aren't so bad, actually.

Nothing like ploughing a deep hole in water. :P

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41 minutes ago, Liquid said:

To not have lived with teak decks, wire sheets and halyards is... wait, that's my nightmare

Oh c'mon, it wasn't that bad.  I only saw a few people lose fingers...  nobody I know lost, like, a whole arm or anything.

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9 minutes ago, sledracr said:

Oh c'mon, it wasn't that bad.  I only saw a few people lose fingers...  nobody I know lost, like, a whole arm or anything.

Getting the blood out of the teak and Dacron was a fucker. 

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2 hours ago, mad said:

Nothing like ploughing a deep hole in water. :P

and sometimes waiting for the boat to decide in which direction to broach...

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Just now, daan62 said:

and sometimes waiting for the boat to decide in which direction to broach...

There is a simply splendid photo from a helicopter in the mid-1980's of a fleet of around a dozen Ranger 37's rounding the weather mark during a Big Boat Series or Ranger 37 Nationals. Every single boat is either rounded up or rounded down simultaneously. I wish I could find that shot. It used to be in the hallway outside the men's locker room at St.FYC. 

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21 hours ago, some dude said:

I remember Curtis talking about standing on the head patch of EF Language's spinnaker in the VOR and the view.  House to the masthead, then get some slack in the halyard and climb up on top of the sail.  He's a gnarly dude.  

I did take time to put my elbows on top of the kite to look around most rides up.  When they yelled at me to hurry up, I always claimed I was "spotting puffs".  The trimmers would occasionally point out when I came back down that the puffs were coming from the opposite direction from where I was looking.  

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I would pay money (but not much) to see a bowman try to go up the rig on one of these new AC foiling jobbies that can hardly stay upright in the first place. With 70 knots apparent breeze up there it would be an interesting ride.

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9 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

There is a simply splendid photo from a helicopter in the mid-1980's of a fleet of around a dozen Ranger 37's rounding the weather mark during a Big Boat Series or Ranger 37 Nationals. Every single boat is either rounded up or rounded down simultaneously. I wish I could find that shot. It used to be in the hallway outside the men's locker room at St.FYC. 

In the big fleets back then, running down the shore from Blackaller, you were on starboard and had to find a hole to jibe out of there onto port.  Waiting until you could call for water at Fort Mason was a little nerve-wracking.  

Ranger 37s were broaches waiting to happen.

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Just now, Left Shift said:

Ranger 37s were broaches waiting to happen.

Exactly. Until you got the blooper up they were designed to broach, and then again when you took the blooper down for the jibe they were waiting to broach. Especially in an ebb when the water was bumpy.

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2 hours ago, mad said:

Getting the blood out of the teak and Dacron was a fucker. 

Yes it was

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8 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

I would pay money (but not much) to see a bowman try to go up the rig on one of these new AC foiling jobbies that can hardly stay upright in the first place. With 70 knots apparent breeze up there it would be an interesting ride.

I would like to see the wipe out.

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Sorcery during a mid 90's Cabo race. Super light race. Did the math at Guadalupe Island and turned for home. Hooked into a cut off low enroute to San Diego. It was blowing 30 and we were doing steady 18 knots. Normally, Sorcery has about seven feet of free board. She was plowing so much water we were down to 18". Robin Sadaro was on one wheel and I was on the other the helm was so heavy. The guy blows the jaw on the end of the pole. Robin says go out and put the guy back in the pole. I said hell I'm going to need to bring the pole to the guy. That was one wild ride.

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I remember an interesting view aft from the bow pulpit when the jibe goes tits up and the spreaders want to take a bath!

Like the boat suddenly doubled in size...

If you got the guy into the jaw, before the back of the boat fucked it all up, you just held on and hoped the topping lift was cleated off!

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33 minutes ago, Liquid said:

....you just held on and hoped the topping lift was cleated off!

....and made sure to get your head on the other side of the headstay in case the pole decided to come back and kill you.

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27 minutes ago, sledracr said:

....and made sure to get your head on the other side of the headstay in case the pole decided to come back and kill you.

Thinking exactly the same. 1984 Around Catalina. 18 knots side by side Hull #1 and Hull #2 MacGregor 65s. The finish line is just outside Bone Yards at Doheny.  I'm standing on the bow pulpit hiding behind the head stay waiting to cross the line to trip the tack away. Just before we cross Dad heats it up and pulls ahead for the win. But, now healed I can't hide and reach the tack. So, I pull myself to the high side and think Oh shit this is gonna hurt. I trip to shackle and the pole recoils off the head stay straight into my brow. One arm wrapped around the head stay I just kind of slide to the deck. Six stitches and a concussion later ...Oh well just make sure you stay hidden behind the head stay.

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Those were the days. :lol:

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That was a serious occupational hazard. Vectran afterguys don't eliminate the problem but at least they are not rubber bands designed to send you to the hospital.

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And this is a time to revisit a photo I posted years ago.  Yours truly casting off the starboard jibsheet through a tack on the wonderful S&S Kialoa III.

 

K-III_wire_sheet.jpg

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3 hours ago, Tom O'Keefe said:

.... trip the shackle and the pole recoils off the head stay straight into my brow. One arm wrapped around the head stay I just kind of slide to the deck. Six stitches and a concussion later ...Oh well just make sure you stay hidden behind the head stay.

Exact same thing happened to my brother on a Chance 32/28 back in 1985.  Dropped to the deck immediately - got the concusion, but lucky, no stitches.

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1 hour ago, P_Wop said:

And this is a time to revisit a photo I posted years ago.  Yours truly casting off the starboard jibsheet through a tack on the wonderful S&S Kialoa III.

 

K-III_wire_sheet.jpg

We need to see current pics of your left hand if you expect us to believe you still have those fingers. :blink:

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Pretty sure I would have been wearing gloves, something about self-preservation instincts.  

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3 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

Pretty sure I would have been wearing gloves, something about self-preservation instincts.  

We didn't.  Or lifejackets.  Or harnesses, except if it was nuking.  Up the rig on one halyard, no backup.  We were careful of course, and mostly knew what we were up to.  Minimal safety gear meant mre attention and less reliance on that stuff in case you screwed up.  There were very few accidents.

BTW the fingers on the wraps on the drum were to prevent the sheet flying off into a huge unmanageable coil as the load was released.  Wire didn't like a 12" drum, far preferring its native state of a 48" coil.  Old wire was worse, as it had unpredictable kinks in it, as well as the bloody meathooks.

That's why the riggers spent evenings in the container splicing up new sheets and aftguys for the morrow.  With, of course, music, cold beer and the occasional racer-chaser. ;-)

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1 hour ago, P_Wop said:

We didn't.  Or lifejackets.  Or harnesses, except if it was nuking.  Up the rig on one halyard, no backup.  We were careful of course, and mostly knew what we were up to.  Minimal safety gear meant mre attention and less reliance on that stuff in case you screwed up.  There were very few accidents.

BTW the fingers on the wraps on the drum were to prevent the sheet flying off into a huge unmanageable coil as the load was released.  Wire didn't like a 12" drum, far preferring its native state of a 48" coil.  Old wire was worse, as it had unpredictable kinks in it, as well as the bloody meathooks.

That's why the riggers spent evenings in the container splicing up new sheets and aftguys for the morrow.  With, of course, music, cold beer and the occasional racer-chaser. ;-)

100%. 

I never wore gloves.  The mast men might have but they never lasted more than a few races, and were stiff as boards in salt water.  Constantly scuffing wire halyards and sheets for meathooks was the solution.     

When the wire bit into the aluminium drum, it would jump out of the grooves and then try to spiral off.  

Harnesses were very rudimentary and painful and not worn much.  More than once I went up the rig in an emergency - say when a T on a runner had jumped out of its socket and we HAD to tack - on a wire halyard wrapped three times around my ass and shackled to itself.  THAT was stupid.  Also left bruises.  

Now I've got two bow people fitted up with harnesses, gloves, life jackets on every race.  Times change.

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5 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

That was a serious occupational hazard. Vectran afterguys don't eliminate the problem but at least they are not rubber bands designed to send you to the hospital.

A poly sheet tail 20' long could stretch maybe 12" when fully loaded.  A pole 2' off the headstay would be leaning up against it.

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7 hours ago, sledracr said:

....and made sure to get your head on the other side of the headstay in case the pole decided to come back and kill you.

See? That Bowsprit/Assym stuff took all the fun out of the Fordeck.

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So when did the ropes become strong enough to be superior to the wire? I only got into bigger boats in the 90’s and I don’t recall wire braces or jib sheets. I do recall wire to rope halyards but they were definitely on the way out.

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8 minutes ago, greasy al said:

So when did the ropes become strong enough to be superior to the wire? I only got into bigger boats in the 90’s and I don’t recall wire braces or jib sheets. I do recall wire to rope halyards but they were definitely on the way out.

In the 80's.  Kevlar core then spectra/dyneema then heat tempered spectra/dyneema.  For standing rigging carbon may be the next wave.

"Dyneema® ropes are made from Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene, or UHMWPE fibers. The end result is a rope that can be up to 15 times stronger than steel and up to 40% stronger than Kevlar. Dyneema ropes are more abrasion resistant than high carbon steel, are resistant to UV light and they float!"

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31 minutes ago, hobot said:

See? That Bowsprit/Assym stuff took all the fun out of the Fordeck.

They still bitch just as much though.

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"The end result is a rope that can be up to 15 times stronger than steel "

^^^ pound for pound.

The surprising thing is that even at the same diameters, dyneema is stronger than steel by a significant margin (not 2x, but... still, stronger)

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11 hours ago, daan62 said:

and sometimes waiting for the boat to decide in which direction to broach...

Thats why we had bloopers,  so they could broach both ways!

If they happened to broach both ways at the same time,  you went straight ahead, but this rarely happened.

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'73 SORC on an S&S 61 with 1" poly Samson braid afterguys. Getting the pole off the forestay with the  Starcut spinnaker was interesting.  

'79 BBS on a Choate 40, rounded Chrissy just behind a pair of Swan 44's. We all get our poles back and bloopers up with us gaining and set to pass between them. Just off the club we got a blast and the Swan on the right rounded down, the one on the left rounded up. They swapped positions and we somehow managed to sail between them and miss both. 

 

Anybody else remember this little item:

IMG_1111.jpg

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21 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Chartered a Swan 441 with teak decks, wire sheets and guys and halyards for a Big Boat Series. The loads on the guys in 30 knots were pretty interesting since the boat couldn't exceed about 9 knots unless you dropped it from a C-5 cargo plane.

My boat had teak decks (now glass) and wire halyards (now vectran). Some modern things aren't so bad, actually.

Having lived a measurable length of my life with a Santana 20, I do believe that boats designed in the mid to late 70’s just MIGHT NOT, be able to exceed 9 knots even when dropped from a C-5.  While great in light air, I honestly believe it is safer to just stay home when the breeze is up.  

Love the little Santana, of the dozen’s of boats I have owned, she remains the favorite.  Still, for her, 7kntos is all she's got, even in a hurricane.  

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7 hours ago, TUBBY said:

Thats why we had bloopers,  so they could broach both ways!

If they happened to broach both ways at the same time,  you went straight ahead, but this rarely happened.

i know... 

just a couple of years ago on our way back to the harbour after the finish (boom has been made longer so it was a bit of a strugle without a reef (it was brand spanking new (only used twice)):

IMG-20170828-WA0013.jpg

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15 minutes ago, daan62 said:

i know... 

just a couple of years ago on our way back to the harbour after the finish (boom has been made longer so it was a bit of a strugle without a reef (it was brand spanking new (only used twice)):

IMG-20170828-WA0013.jpg

some sails on the boat have stamps of the OTC '78 and are still used... 0.5 spinaker, 1.5 spinaker, chicken chute... (pics of the 1.5 and the chicken chute)

WhatsApp Image 2018-09-02 at 00.36.52.jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2018-09-02 at 00.36.53 (2).jpeg

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On 4/10/2020 at 6:23 AM, Serge A. Storms said:

CAYANNE in about 1983

All I know about this boat was we sailed her at St. Mary's College-  Don't know much about her history before that but at SMC she was the first "big boat" a lot of us ever laid eyes on or sailed on-  Also partied on.   

It was known around campus that the donated boats at the waterfront (also ROGUE'S ROOST, REVELRY, RACONTEUR) were left unlocked so the students had a place to go hump without having to deal with roommates-  many thanks to the waterfront director for coming up with that policy!

Great times....

CAYANNE.jpg

Cayenne. That's the Shore Sails main we built for her.

Prior to SMCM, Don Tate owned her and she resided on Spa Creek, upstream from the drawbridge.  Craziness ensued.  A few memories survive the onslaught of beer fronts. 

Gov Cup, at night, wind picking up on a headsail reach (too close for any spin), and Don decides it's time to reef.  No reef line run on the leech, so someone has to go out to run it.  They decide to send me, who knew no better.  Line attached to my harness, climb onto the boom and, basically, slide down the shelf foot to the end of the boom.  No problem.  As I stand to reach the ring, a big gust hit and boom end starts bouncing on the water.  Crew starts laughing while I am hanging on for dear life.  Got it run and hauled back to the mast.  Stupid.

Tied up, Med style, in Baltimore, about to deliver the boat back to Annapolis.  BN decides to show off and hoist the kite to pull away.  Up goes the kite and it fills.  Guy on pier goes to untie the stern line, only to realize someone had thrown an extra loop on the cleat from the line leading to the boat - now nicely loaded up.  Digging for a knife when the cleat parted from the concrete pier.  Thank God it didn't hit anyone as it shot into the cockpit.  Stupid.

During a delivery, light air with main up and motor sailing, BN asleep in a sleeping bag in the shelf foot.  We gybed.  Not sure if he got out of the bag before he hit the water or after.  We did get him back aboard.  Stupid.

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22 hours ago, sledracr said:

Oh c'mon, it wasn't that bad.  I only saw a few people lose fingers...  nobody I know lost, like, a whole arm or anything.

Hutch on Nirvana.... Long time in hospital, not many bones not broken.

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1 hour ago, cms said:

Hutch on Nirvana.... Long time in hospital, not many bones not broken.

Yes, I remember that day in Sydney.  Not good.  But he's been back at it for many years, now running Rosehearty, a 180-foot Perini ketch exploring far-flung parts of the world. 

Northwest Passage Aboard Rosehearty – Ron Holland Design

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Remember hearing about it.....followed by the lesson of ‘always look down at where you’re standing’ !! 
 

Wire braces and sheets on the drum scared the shit out of me at times. 

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1 hour ago, P_Wop said:

  Not good.  But he's been back at it for many years

Worst I ever saw was the guy on Christine in a BBS.  Badly injured when one of Fred's home-built coffeegrinders let go.  Lots of surgeries to put his fingers/wrist/forearm back together.  Not sure he ever raced again.

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4 minutes ago, sledracr said:

Worst I ever saw was the guy on Christine in a BBS.  Badly injured when one of Fred's home-built coffeegrinders let go.  Lots of surgeries to put his fingers/wrist/forearm back together.  Not sure he ever raced again.

The 84 footer in 1978? I haven't heard that story.

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1 minute ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

The 84 footer in 1978? I haven't heard that story.

Yeah.  I didn't see it, but the dock-talk was that both pawls let go, and the tailer's hand/arm went around the drum a time or two before he could get free of the jibsheet. 

Christine's primaries were always scary... he built them himself (the story was he used VW transaxles, but that's probably urban legend).  What isn't legend is that they were known for making this ominous "ping" noise when one of the pawls slipped and let the drum lurch backward a bit.  Which meant, for that instant, all the load was being carried by just one other pawl.

Probably the 1978 or 1980 BBS... that's a lot of brain-cells ago.

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Reel halyard winches were on their way out when I got started offshore....but plenty of cautionary talk overheard on deck as the mast guy was about to do his thing...certainly got my attention and imagination always giving that task careful attention

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Just now, BravoBravo said:

Reel halyard winches were on their way out when I got started offshore....but plenty of cautionary talk overheard on deck as the mast guy was about to do his thing...certainly got my attention and imagination always giving that task careful attention

You had to take tension on the halyard before releasing the brake otherwise it was only a question of whether you would break your wrist or your elbow.

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3 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Cayenne. That's the Shore Sails main we built for her.

Prior to SMCM, Don Tate owned her and she resided on Spa Creek, upstream from the drawbridge.  Craziness ensued.  A few memories survive the onslaught of beer fronts. 

Gov Cup, at night, wind picking up on a headsail reach (too close for any spin), and Don decides it's time to reef.  No reef line run on the leech, so someone has to go out to run it.  They decide to send me, who knew no better.  Line attached to my harness, climb onto the boom and, basically, slide down the shelf foot to the end of the boom.  No problem.  As I stand to reach the ring, a big gust hit and boom end starts bouncing on the water.  Crew starts laughing while I am hanging on for dear life.  Got it run and hauled back to the mast.  Stupid.

 Tied up, Med style, in Baltimore, about to deliver the boat back to Annapolis.  BN decides to show off and hoist the kite to pull away.  Up goes the kite and it fills.  Guy on pier goes to untie the stern line, only to realize someone had thrown an extra loop on the cleat from the line leading to the boat - now nicely loaded up.  Digging for a knife when the cleat parted from the concrete pier.  Thank God it didn't hit anyone as it shot into the cockpit.  Stupid.

During a delivery, light air with main up and motor sailing, BN asleep in a sleeping bag in the shelf foot.  We gybed.  Not sure if he got out of the bag before he hit the water or after.  We did get him back aboard.  Stupid.

Sounds an awful lot like the sequel to 'Airplane!', only with sailboats.

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4 hours ago, daan62 said:

i know... 

just a couple of years ago on our way back to the harbour after the finish (boom has been made longer so it was a bit of a strugle without a reef (it was brand spanking new (only used twice)):

IMG-20170828-WA0013.jpg

Nice of you to return the marker buoys for them. :D

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Nice of you to return the marker buoys for them. :D

you can see the head of the rib driver just popping out above the buys...  (there was also a photografer in the rib/ when we were closer to the harbour, the old harbour master was explaining to people that it was not a second spinaker and that a lot of years ago this was normal)

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45 minutes ago, sledracr said:

Worst I ever saw was the guy on Christine in a BBS.  Badly injured when one of Fred's home-built coffeegrinders let go.  Lots of surgeries to put his fingers/wrist/forearm back together.  Not sure he ever raced again.

Same Christine that called MDR home?

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13 minutes ago, hobot said:

Same Christine

Yeah, the bright-finished 84-footer

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on our family boat we still use these... reliable as heck as long as you clean them from time to time (and from time to time you have to remove some meat hooks...):

NEVER LET GO OF THE WINCHHANDLE!

Lewmar winch - Zeppy.io

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1 hour ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

You had to take tension on the halyard before releasing the brake otherwise it was only a question of whether you would break your wrist or your elbow.

Easing the halyard down reefing was the scary part.  You had the handle in the winch and you had to give it your full attention.  Otherwise it would whip around and break your forearm.  Saw that happen once and treated those things like death traps. 

Then there was the "reefing wheel" one of my owner's claimed to have invented - maybe it became a product - a steering wheel with a winch stud welded to the hub.  Let loose of that thing and it would spin out of control and the spokes would break any thumb too slow to let go.

 

This thing looks passive.  It is only waiting for it's victim....

6 minutes ago, daan62 said:

on our family boat we still use these... reliable as heck as long as you clean them from time to time (and from time to time you have to remove some meat hooks...):

Lewmar winch - Zeppy.io

 

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1 hour ago, Matagi said:

Sounds an awful lot like the sequel to 'Airplane!', only with sailboats.

That assessment is quite accurate. 

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Windward Passage, I think.

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11 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Ondine?

That baby blue hull would suggest so. 

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4 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

That baby blue hull would suggest so. 

Not the Blue Pig.  Ondine (now Atalanta) has a very rounded bow and high gunwales.  

May be Swiftsure.  The metallic cove stripe leads me in that direction

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6 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Yes, you are right. Maybe a 2-tonner? But she is a lighter blue than Seaquesta.

Gotta be bigger than a 2 tonner.

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Two wheels and a radar mast, so possibly mini-maxi.  Certainly over 55 feet.  Not a Santa Cruz 70, so....

Hmmm.... 

An Alan Andrews boat?

 

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The hull colour definitely suggests an Ondine - there were seven built in all including The Blue Pig (Ondine III).

I found a list off all the Ondines in another thread in SA:

Ondine 53' yawl wrecked on Anegada Is about 1958

Ondine II 57' aluminum yawl designed by W. Tripp, built by Jakobson 1959, donated to Naval Academy 1968

Ondine III 73'6" aluminum yawl designed by W. Tripp, built by A&R 1968

Ondine IV 78'11" aluminum ketch designed by Brit Chance, built by Derecktor(?) 1974

Ondine V 75' aluminum sloop designed by Jerry Milgram, built by PJ 80-81

Ondine VI 105' aluminum sloop designed by JG Alden, built PJ 1982(?!)

Ondine VII 80'4" composite sloop designed by G. Frers, built by Souters 1986

 

The Milgram one was actually nice looking - not at all like Cascade

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51 minutes ago, ROADKILL666 said:

Looks to small for Ondine

Looks can be deceptive, the mast is 100', took the boss about 10minutes to haul me up it on his own. 

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Now I know where our Mascot came from, Bonus points if you can tell me where this flagpole is.1138791052_BigBluePig.thumb.jpg.3b4f44e0d5d0e6b50a3ae7412909c9f8.jpg

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Okay, assuming it is one of the Ondines, here is a comparison of the transoms of IV (Chance), V (Milgram), & VII (Frers):

 

Ondine IV.jpg

Ondine V.jpg

Ondine VII.jpg

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5 minutes ago, sledracr said:

I’m betting on the frers.  

Not the Frers, the winches and main are ahead of the helm.  No clue here.

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It's not an ONDINE,  VII has the same open array radar, but pic does not show same deck as 7. She had direct lead genoa sheets to the drum, & shallow bathtub sized trimmer pits. And 7 linked pedestals in the crew cockpit. And bigger.

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3 hours ago, BOI Guy said:

Probably more well known around here, anybody guess who it is?109140124_Coastal1.thumb.jpg.49baf96d5d1a5a96fad19f7fc37b9e6e.jpg

Where is around here Mr. BG?

 

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7 minutes ago, longy said:

It's not an ONDINE,  VII has the same open array radar, but pic does not show same deck as 7. She had direct lead genoa sheets to the drum, & shallow bathtub sized trimmer pits. And 7 linked pedestals in the crew cockpit. And bigger.

Don,t you just love it here, someone can be so adamantly right but so fundamentally wrong.2067112459_Coastal2jpg.thumb.jpg.6338ebf7cc63487410fef36dd45118c6.jpgD

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It's a internet forum - best to be "wrong with confidence."  I don't remember Delrin anchor rollers on the bow, either, even tho I started the circuit as #2 bow guy.

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I don't reckon you can call yourself a headsail trimmer until you have short tacked one of these with a No.1 up and a pit full of angry grinders.

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20 minutes ago, BOI Guy said:

I don't reckon you can call yourself a headsail trimmer until you have short tacked one of these with a No.1 up and a pit full of angry grinders.

Trimmer's got it easy.  It's the grinders and the tailer that do the work.  All assholes and elbows until the rock star steps in and calls for the final few inches.   

The TP52s made the right call with their 105% jibs.  

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I pulled it in and trimmed it, thats the job isn't it?

Does that make me a rock star too?

Watched some guys on a couple of TP52's have a pissing contest at the dock a couple of months ago, hauling man up the mast, what a bunch of pussies. All you could hear was the wine of the electric winch.

We could get 8 men linked up on the grinders, would have left them for dead, young guns would shit themselves going up like that these days.

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Yup. The maxi foredeck hatched had a roller on the aft edge so when the 250 pound sails got winched up from below the 3/8 wire halyard didn’t cut a groove in the deck. No pussies allowed.

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