• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
K9u20

Older well known IOR Boats

Recommended Posts

When was this boat sailing? It was clearly before my time, but I've never even heard of this boat, and I've sailed in Detroit my whole life. What kind of boat was it?

 

Would have been sometime around the first half of the 80's or so. Sailed out of a yacht club on the Clinton River (can't remember the name of the club) -- did series races on Lake St. Clair, and probably the Pt. Huron - Mac, if not both mac races. I'm remembering "Kaufman Custom Choate 40" or something like that. It was light-colored, with a bunch of green.

 

If you've sailed there your whole life, and this was before your time, does that me old? Shit, I didn't feel old this morning.... Really, I was quite young then...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Would have been sometime around the first half of the 80's or so. Sailed out of a yacht club on the Clinton River (can't remember the name of the club) -- did series races on Lake St. Clair, and probably the Pt. Huron - Mac, if not both mac races. I'm remembering "Kaufman Custom Choate 40" or something like that. It was light-colored, with a bunch of green.

 

If you've sailed there your whole life, and this was before your time, does that me old? Shit, I didn't feel old this morning.... Really, I was quite young then...

 

I was born in '84, started sailing in '94 or '95. Are you thinking of North Star Sail Club? I'll have to check what I have around the house to see if I can find that design. It sounds familiar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was born in '84, started sailing in '94 or '95. Are you thinking of North Star Sail Club? I'll have to check what I have around the house to see if I can find that design. It sounds familiar.
That sure that sounds right.

 

South side of the river, maybe half a mile or so in from the mouth I'm guessing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That sure that sounds right.

 

South side of the river, maybe half a mile or so in from the mouth I'm guessing.

Peit Hein was a Choate 40 I'm pretty sure. It was owned by Case DeLang's dad (forgot his name). There was another one in Detroit for a summer in 1980 called "Carnivorous". It was a Tim Woodhouse special fitted out at the old Hood loft (Sails By Watts at the time?) Very cool looking boat with a gray paint job. Very "stealth". Same year that the NM 36 "Rush" appeared on the scene. That boat blew everything away in Chi and BYC macs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From my knowledge it is a sistership to IMP. I believe it previously was called "Secret Affair" and was raced in the Great Lakes. It was not "Midnight Sun" which was also raced in LIS.

The "Midnight Sun" I was referring to was the 40' built in wood by Souters. The 50' was built by Huisman and did indeed end up on LIS with named retained. There was a IMP sistership called "Impetous" I think owned by an Irishman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peit Hein was a Choate 40 I'm pretty sure. It was owned by Case DeLang's dad (forgot his name). There was another one in Detroit for a summer in 1980 called "Carnivorous". It was a Tim Woodhouse special fitted out at the old Hood loft (Sails By Watts at the time?) Very cool looking boat with a gray paint job. Very "stealth". Same year that the NM 36 "Rush" appeared on the scene. That boat blew everything away in Chi and BYC macs.

 

I knew skew would see this sooner or later and have an answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely no idea whether she was IOR or not but does anyone know what happened to Jack Rooklyn's old Ballyhoo ? I know she was sold (USA ??) and renamed Mistress Quickly but that was years ago. I remember years back being passed by her and one of the Apollos on Sydney Harbour as they headed up past the old wedding cake, was a lovely sight. The Apollo in question was the (Adams ??) designed Apollo that Muir bought prior to Windward Passage and which was wrecked up near Newcastle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

last year i bought allegiance ex windquest a frers IOR design from 1985 in aluminium loa 50'. she was originaly built for one of the de vose boys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
last year i bought allegiance ex windquest a frers IOR design from 1985 in aluminium loa 50'. she was originaly built for one of the de vose boys.

 

Taking it cruising?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Needs no introduction to any Irish sailors....

 

I've seen a boat like this one in Deltaville. Anyone else seen the one I'm thinking of?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't fucking believe I can "lay the smacketh down" like I did and remain unchallenged. Un fucking believeable.

 

As an aside, any of you older douches remember the Irwin 43 "Razzle Dazzle" of SORC fame? Total Guns 'N Roses.

 

I last saw her in I think the '79 SORC, during the St. Pete to Ft. Lauderdale race. She was leading the series and was dismasted off Miami when a 60 knot squall kicked up. I was on Chloe, a Kelly 39 and we were laid over without sails for about 20 minutes. The owner was continually dunked, just hanging to the leward stern pulpit.

 

Razzle Dazzle was helmed by Ed Baird that series. I hated to see them drop out like that. I was raised there in St. Pete and our guys always seemed to break in the big events.

 

She was exceptional with her stringer grid taken all the way to the bow, her curved hull to deck joint was a smooth addition as well.

 

Rick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I last saw her in I think the '79 SORC, during the St. Pete to Ft. Lauderdale race. She was leading the series and was dismasted off Miami when a 60 knot squall kicked up. I was on Chloe, a Kelly 39 and we were laid over without sails for about 20 minutes. The owner was continually dunked, just hanging to the leward stern pulpit.

 

Razzle Dazzle was helmed by Ed Baird that series. I hated to see them drop out like that. I was raised there in St. Pete and our guys always seemed to break in the big events.

 

She was exceptional with her stringer grid taken all the way to the bow, her curved hull to deck joint was a smooth addition as well.

 

Rick

Hey, Rick, nice to see you sailed with Jack Frassanito on Chloe as well. Had some fun on that one with Billy Warterfield and the team doing 83 SORC ... Great owner, and a nice little boat. But Don Krip was truly a piece of work driving it. Still is, I expect, altho' I haven't seen him for years. Rolling into the Bell Bar, the homicide-central biker bar in St Pete with him for lunch one day in his Rolls Royce was an experience. Amazing he didn't get us killed. The blazers at the StPYC weren't too amused when he turned up in the Club bar wearing a Bell Bar t-shirt.

 

I believe Don drove Razzle into a channel marker when his shades fell off one day... another story. Perhaps you know more?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peterson 38 Adrenalin 1980....very sweet profile with litle bustle and a dream to sail uphill. Downhill ina blow she was manageable with me clocking a 21.5 under 2 reefs and a poled out #3 during one Southport about 8 yrs ago and regularly hitting 17+ topping at 19 somthing on the first night of the 98 Hobart.

 

Does anyone know where she is now we sold her to Queensland. Pretty boat, fast handled beautifully and all cedar and mahagony.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Carrot was racing on the Ches Bay as late as last year's Annap Race Week.

Haven't seen her around this year, maybe someone else will chime in...

post-1770-1190076798_thumb.jpg

 

Reprisal was my first regular ride on the Bay.. sailed with the post USNA owner for two years.. every fucking weekend LOL

didn't know shit then.. still dont..

 

We raced against the frers? 50 Donnybrook.. aluminum hull

you could jump start a Kenworth by clipping your jumper cables to opposing stantions on that boat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imp is currently based in Charleston in the US. She is still Irish owned but they did the ARC transatlantic race last year. They also did the pineapple Cup and the Charleston Regatta this year. Apparently they are still planning on bringing her to Sydney to do the hobart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peterson 38 Adrenalin 1980....very sweet profile with litle bustle and a dream to sail uphill. Downhill ina blow she was manageable with me clocking a 21.5 under 2 reefs and a poled out #3 during one Southport about 8 yrs ago and regularly hitting 17+ topping at 19 somthing on the first night of the 98 Hobart.

 

Does anyone know where she is now we sold her to Queensland. Pretty boat, fast handled beautifully and all cedar and mahagony.

The old Adrenadog eh? Did a bit with her with a previous owner to you.

 

Think I saw her in Mackay a couple of weeks ago. I had to stop and have a second look, pretty sure, maybe someone else knows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pdub,

 

you're not an Italian urinary concoction are you? ;) , Krip was our driver on Chloe that year. He was and is one of the most outrageous characters around. He since got into flying, dried out, achieved his diplomate in Chiropractic Neurology, Commodore of SPYC, and president of the American Chiropractic Association.

 

I had my dates wrong earlier, I was on the original Razzle Dazzle 2 Tonner with the lifting keel/daggerboard in '79.

 

The year Baird was driving the second generation Razzle Dazzle fixed keel I was on Chloe. Our bow guy and bn was Jeremy from Cowes. Don't remember his last name. Some time during the Kahlua Cup before the SORC, they took on some water between the skins, unbeknowst at the time, and by the time we were crossing the stream in the Miami-Naussua race, I was up in the bow trying to find out why we were so slow upwind. Sure enough, that flat section of the bow behind the knuckle was oil canning big time.

 

Those years all kind of blend together but It was before your time in "83.

 

Is Jack still sailing?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey, Rick, nice to see you sailed with Jack Frassanito on Chloe as well. Had some fun on that one with Billy Warterfield and the team doing 83 SORC ... Great owner, and a nice little boat. But Don Krip was truly a piece of work driving it. Still is, I expect, altho' I haven't seen him for years. Rolling into the Bell Bar, the homicide-central biker bar in St Pete with him for lunch one day in his Rolls Royce was an experience. Amazing he didn't get us killed. The blazers at the StPYC weren't too amused when he turned up in the Club bar wearing a Bell Bar t-shirt.

 

I believe Don drove Razzle into a channel marker when his shades fell off one day... another story. Perhaps you know more?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Recently?

 

 

Yea man. Saw it there last week. I doubt its the same boat but its a wooden racer that's in need of some love. If you've ever been to Cocomo's, its just to the left of the restaurant on Broad Creek. I'll take a picture of it next time I'm down there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
..... I was on Chloe. Our bow guy and bn was Jeremy from Cowes. Don't remember his last name. Some time during the Kahlua Cup before the SORC, they took on some water between the skins, unbeknowst at the time, and by the time we were crossing the stream in the Miami-Naussua race, I was up in the bow trying to find out why we were so slow upwind. Sure enough, that flat section of the bow behind the knuckle was oil canning big time.

 

Those years all kind of blend together but It was before your time in "83.

 

Is Jack still sailing?

Errrr.... that bowman would be me...

 

Billy Waterfield and I spent an interesting afternoon in Nassau at the lumber store buying some 2x4s and nails, a hammer and a saw. Built some angled criss-cross shores across the forepeak to support the hull skin, then sailed back to Miami. Running across the bank under kite towards Gun Cay I freaked Billy out big time. He hadn't realized we were on the bank and thus in only 9 feet of water, so I asked him to go down and check that we didn't have weed on the prop. He took one look through the hull window and screamed. Sand, bottom and occasional coral heads flying past just below his nose. Came on deck gibbering....

 

When we trucked the boat back to Texas, the surveyor drilled a small hole into the outside skin under the bow, and promptly fried himself as a jet of water shorted his Bosch...

 

Jack I believe has now crossed to the dark side and has a nice day motorboat somewhere on Galveston Bay...

 

Happy days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had a whole bunch of them up here where the old IOR boats came to die. Bill Buchans Sachem is looking very good after a whole make over last year, so does Hagar. I had Electra which we renamed Christopher Robin, (when we got rid of the puke yellow and painted it red) a Mull 3/4 ton with lots of tumble home, pointed transom and crew cockpits. I have seen Stargazer, another Mull 3/4 ton on the canal, but it is fractional, and many more. Our current boat, a Peterson 37 is probably one of the last IOR boats designed. but I still love her!

 

Sachem -Boat of the Year 2012 at Seattle Yacht Club

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice to see mention of Chole. My dad was considering that design and I had the drawings up in my dorm room. Drop dead sexy boat. Anyone know what happened to it?

 

Jack F is still (I hope) hale and hearty in Texas. I'll shoot him a message and ask. You're right - Chloe was a great boat.

 

Here's she is - SORC 83

 

post-271-0-86214300-1357270329_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Who cares where they are. They were bitches of things to sail and stupid designs with the pinched in transoms, fat beams, bumps and all that.

 

Kialoa, Ondine and Windward Passage were not IOR. That's why they were so good, except for the blue pig.

 

Clearly you are a young fuck who was not around in the heydey of IOR. Kialoas III to V were IOR designs, and damned good ones. Ondines III to V were IOR as well, although they were not great designs and not nearly as successful as the Kialoas. Before you young shits spout off about the lame IOR designs, I should remind you that many, many international race records were held by these "pigs" for decades, beaten only by $25 million canting keel supermaxis (10 to 20' longer than their IOR counterparts) with full professional crews in ideal conditions. Most IOR Maxis were 78 to 82', had amaeteur goons as crew, and were things of beauty. Beasts to sail, especially downwind, but they were not glorified powerboats like the 30m supermaxis of today. Remember the days of 6 to 10 full on maxis at any given international regatta? Remember the days of a dozen or more 50's lining up against each other during the day and their BN's smoking weed and fucking whores all night long? No? I didn't think so. Piss off. Who really gives a shit if a leadmine goes 15 knots or 25? It's all slow anyways. What matters is how you achieve the speed you do, and the IOR boats did it in bling bling bitchin' style. Everybody, and I mean everybody, had fun in those days. Full stop.

 

...and Yaz takes an early lead in the "rant of the year"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Errr, DD. Yaz's rant was 4+ years ago.

 

For IOR afficionados, Runaway, the NZ one tonner (sister to Rainbow II IIRC) is in Darwin at the moment. I'll try to get a photo if she stays for a while.

 

The thing that really struck me was how SMALL it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had a whole bunch of them up here where the old IOR boats came to die. Bill Buchans Sachem is looking very good after a whole make over last year, so does Hagar. I had Electra which we renamed Christopher Robin, (when we got rid of the puke yellow and painted it red) a Mull 3/4 ton with lots of tumble home, pointed transom and crew cockpits. I have seen Stargazer, another Mull 3/4 ton on the canal, but it is fractional, and many more. Our current boat, a Peterson 37 is probably one of the last IOR boats designed. but I still love her!

 

Sachem -Boat of the Year 2012 at Seattle Yacht Club

 

I know Bcam. Great boat and of course very well sailed. In class 3 for Grand Prix, we had Absolutely, a G&S 1 ton, Shoot the Moon, a old 40ft. Peterson 2 tonner, then us with What? A Tripp!. Peterson 1 ton. Great to see all the old IOR boats beating out the J-109's, Ben. 36.7, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shoot the Moon and What? A Tripp! duelling downwind in Grand Prix a few years ago. Couple of old IOR Petersons.

Shoot the Moon was SYC Boat of the Year last year. This year another Peterson.......thay don't all go away and die. LOL

post-1866-0-60018400-1357283194_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Recidvist

Runway is a John Lidgard design and build, it looked very similar to SS designs. Panther #101 is the near sistership of Rainbow.

 

JohnB, thanks for setting me straight. It was a long time ago!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shoot the Moon and What? A Tripp! duelling downwind in Grand Prix a few years ago. Couple of old IOR Petersons.

Shoot the Moon was SYC Boat of the Year last year. This year another Peterson.......thay don't all go away and die. LOL

 

Shoot the Moon was originally "dogpatch", and very successfully campaigned by the Ayers family in SoCal when new.

 

They had the hull built (westerly? not sure), and then finished/fitted her out at their dock on Lido Isle over the course of a couple of months. I had a great vantage point for watching the process, while living at the old "sea base" directly across the channel from their dock. Gosh that was a long time ago O_O

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had a whole bunch of them up here where the old IOR boats came to die. Bill Buchans Sachem is looking very good after a whole make over last year, so does Hagar. I had Electra which we renamed Christopher Robin, (when we got rid of the puke yellow and painted it red) a Mull 3/4 ton with lots of tumble home, pointed transom and crew cockpits. I have seen Stargazer, another Mull 3/4 ton on the canal, but it is fractional, and many more. Our current boat, a Peterson 37 is probably one of the last IOR boats designed. but I still love her!

 

Sachem -Boat of the Year 2012 at Seattle Yacht Club

 

I know Bcam. Great boat and of course very well sailed. In class 3 for Grand Prix, we had Absolutely, a G&S 1 ton, Shoot the Moon, a old 40ft. Peterson 2 tonner, then us with What? A Tripp!. Peterson 1 ton. Great to see all the old IOR boats beating out the J-109's, Ben. 36.7, etc.

 

Soling - Ahhhhhh!!! That's where Electra went! We were building a very similar Mull 3/4 tonner but in aluminum (no tumblehome whatsoever but crew cockpits etc) in '77. The owner looked at Electra in Seattle and the sistership "Impulse" was at Royal Victoria YC and built one of his own. Oddly enough either boats didn't make it for the 3/4 ton worlds '78 at Victoria. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Electra's owner was Ben Denbart?(sic) Then had the Davidson 40 1 tonner "Aquila"?

 

Bcam - That's terrific that Sachem was SYC boat of the year. What a legacy. I sailed on the last Great Equalizers races in '84 or '85 on a SC50 and I think Sachem was there; or at least his brother's Glory was. Either way Sachem has been in the family forever. Bill made it into a family cruiser at one point. I use to see it in Mink Is. in Desolation. I know Bill bought the N/M ILC 46 China Cloud with some success (I ought of know - we raced against CC for awhile on the Andrews 56 Delicate Balance) and I very tough opponent. I guess Bill likes Sachem as he still has it. Amazing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes Maxx, I Electra from Ben in 1979. Painted it and renamed it Christopher Robin. When I sold it the new owner put on teak decks, got rid of the crew cockpits and put in a regular cockpit and cruises it. Ben bought Aquila then sold it and bought a 101. I don't remember Impulse, what ever happened to her?

 

I'm surprised he didn't race in the Worlds, as he cut off 500 lbs from the bottom of the keel and put a wood shoe on, then added 18" to the rig. Luckily I found the old lead peice and bolted it back on! That was the kind of issues we had with the IOR in the later days.

 

I would imagine that Sachem was out for the last Equalizer. I think John still had Glory then, I sailed on it when it was new and did the Vic Maui with him. Great boat, too bad we broke the rudder partway across. It's amazing that Bill is still racing Sachem, but he does have a great crew too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. I think I remember the mod but then again they didn't go. Anyone that was anyone went. Davidson, North, Barrett, Buchan, Porky Lorence, 4 G&S cold molders from the lakes. The list goes on and on. And speaking of mods: We had a single spreader/ on a half ton section and we had already bought the section as it was going layed up with carbon to stiffen it then IOR changed the rule so after talking to Stearns we plug weld the section on the inside. We had a full machine/fabrication shop and the boat was built there so it was a no brainer. I don't think it came up right but we had a decision to make.

 

There were a lot of bad ideas just to get a boat to rate by doing stuff like a wooden shoe. Lots of internal ballast. Too bad really but it was a different time. I think the latter IOR boats has smoothed out the weirdness and I think Isler use to say, of the latter 1 tonners. If you paint them all white the crews don't know what boat to get on. And with IMS it was Deja vu all over again. Weirdness in the shape and heavy boats by choice just for the rating.

 

But then again I'm a measurement kind of guy. PHRF has it place but not full on race boats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. I think I remember the mod but then again they didn't go. Anyone that was anyone went. Davidson, North, Barrett, Buchan, Porky Lorence, 4 G&S cold molders from the lakes. The list goes on and on. And speaking of mods: We had a single spreader/ on a half ton section and we had already bought the section as it was going layed up with carbon to stiffen it then IOR changed the rule so after talking to Stearns we plug weld the section on the inside. We had a full machine/fabrication shop and the boat was built there so it was a no brainer. I don't think it came up right but we had a decision to make.

 

There were a lot of bad ideas just to get a boat to rate by doing stuff like a wooden shoe. Lots of internal ballast. Too bad really but it was a different time. I think the latter IOR boats has smoothed out the weirdness and I think Isler use to say, of the latter 1 tonners. If you paint them all white the crews don't know what boat to get on. And with IMS it was Deja vu all over again. Weirdness in the shape and heavy boats by choice just for the rating.

 

But then again I'm a measurement kind of guy. PHRF has it place but not full on race boats.

 

IIRC, in the seventies several IOR boats were experimenting with boron to stiffen the mast, and I'm wondering if it was boron rather than carbon that you are referring to. For some reason, I think that while IOR permitted some exotic materials like boron, carbon either was not allowed at that time or they hadn't made it into the form we know of today that is so readily usable on boats. Just curious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ben Dembart bought a Wylie 34 after Electra. I remember coming out of the fog bank near West point with the 54' Glory just ahead on the Equalizer race. Scared the crap out of a bunch of guys salmon fishing at dawn as we dropped the kites and rounded the bouy to go to the finish line. After that he bought HIGH NOON the Peterson 41. Did Clipper cup until we broke the bottom. Then Aquilla. Then he downsized to a Tripp 33. I had a lot of fun sailing with Ben over the years and he could do IOR rating #'s in his head for just about any modification.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. I think I remember the mod but then again they didn't go. Anyone that was anyone went. Davidson, North, Barrett, Buchan, Porky Lorence, 4 G&S cold molders from the lakes. The list goes on and on. And speaking of mods: We had a single spreader/ on a half ton section and we had already bought the section as it was going layed up with carbon to stiffen it then IOR changed the rule so after talking to Stearns we plug weld the section on the inside. We had a full machine/fabrication shop and the boat was built there so it was a no brainer. I don't think it came up right but we had a decision to make.

 

There were a lot of bad ideas just to get a boat to rate by doing stuff like a wooden shoe. Lots of internal ballast. Too bad really but it was a different time. I think the latter IOR boats has smoothed out the weirdness and I think Isler use to say, of the latter 1 tonners. If you paint them all white the crews don't know what boat to get on. And with IMS it was Deja vu all over again. Weirdness in the shape and heavy boats by choice just for the rating.

 

But then again I'm a measurement kind of guy. PHRF has it place but not full on race boats.

 

IIRC, in the seventies several IOR boats were experimenting with boron to stiffen the mast, and I'm wondering if it was boron rather than carbon that you are referring to. For some reason, I think that while IOR permitted some exotic materials like boron, carbon either was not allowed at that time or they hadn't made it into the form we know of today that is so readily usable on boats. Just curious.

 

Carbon was allowed mid 70's under IOR...Williwaw had it glued to her untra light highly bendable spar....this pix is of "Ron Holland "Jacknife" carbon fiber tows hanging over the sheer awaiting lamination over the mahogany laminated keel timbers....we had to wait and never knew when the order might arrive from Great Lakes Carbon ... for government order surplus.....Imp was built in the same shed only a few months later....

post-56533-0-28795100-1357604945_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. I think I remember the mod but then again they didn't go. Anyone that was anyone went. Davidson, North, Barrett, Buchan, Porky Lorence, 4 G&S cold molders from the lakes. The list goes on and on. And speaking of mods: We had a single spreader/ on a half ton section and we had already bought the section as it was going layed up with carbon to stiffen it then IOR changed the rule so after talking to Stearns we plug weld the section on the inside. We had a full machine/fabrication shop and the boat was built there so it was a no brainer. I don't think it came up right but we had a decision to make.

 

There were a lot of bad ideas just to get a boat to rate by doing stuff like a wooden shoe. Lots of internal ballast. Too bad really but it was a different time. I think the latter IOR boats has smoothed out the weirdness and I think Isler use to say, of the latter 1 tonners. If you paint them all white the crews don't know what boat to get on. And with IMS it was Deja vu all over again. Weirdness in the shape and heavy boats by choice just for the rating.

 

But then again I'm a measurement kind of guy. PHRF has it place but not full on race boats.

 

IIRC, in the seventies several IOR boats were experimenting with boron to stiffen the mast, and I'm wondering if it was boron rather than carbon that you are referring to. For some reason, I think that while IOR permitted some exotic materials like boron, carbon either was not allowed at that time or they hadn't made it into the form we know of today that is so readily usable on boats. Just curious.

 

Carbon was allowed mid 70's under IOR...Williwaw had it glued to her untra light highly bendable spar....this pix is of "Ron Holland "Jacknife" carbon fiber tows hanging over the sheer awaiting lamination over the mahogany laminated keel timbers....we had to wait and never knew when the order might arrive from Great Lakes Carbon ... for government order surplus.....Imp was built in the same shed only a few months later....

 

Actually, Williwaw was one of the boats I was thinking of. I remember she had some exotic (at the time) material attached (glued) to the mast, I thought it was boron for some reason. Thanks for the info.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Carbon was initially allowed, or at least it hadn't been banned or penalised, in the mid-70s and it was used on the rig of Country Boy, a custom version of the Farr 1104, to reinforce/stiffen the tapered part of the mast. The Offshore Rating Council later waded in with a Spar Material Factor as an add-on to the IOR measurement sometime in 1977 that deemed carbon as 'exotic' and applied a penalty, I think regardless of how much of the offending material was used - I don't know how badly it affected Williwaw but I think the performance advantage for Country Boy didn't justify the penalty and the rig was changed before the 1977 NZ One Ton Cup trials.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1969_enlarge.jpg

 

60' Offshore Racer arrow_right5_red.gif RUNNING TIDE Design No 1969 1969_thumb.jpgenlarge1.gif LOA 60 ft 6 in LWL 45 ft 0 in Beam 14 ft 3 in Draft 9 ft 0 in Few yachts have enjoyed the long-running racing success of RUNNING TIDE. Starting with class honors in the 1970 Bermuda Race and first place silver in the 1971 Southern Ocean Racing Conference (SORC), RUNNING TIDE amassed a case full of over 200 trophies for her two owners right up to victory in the 1983 Annapolis to Newport Race. Built of light weight (for the day) aluminum by Royal Huisman Shipyard, their first aluminum hull, she pre-dated the IOR rule by several years yet remained competitive under that rule for over a decade. Eventually, newer, optimized designs ruled the day but RUNNING TIDE remains with her second owners as a cruising yacht in Europe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey Detroit Anarchists --

 

Don't know if this one qualifies as and "older well-known IOR boat" or not, but anybody know what ever happened to Piet Hein? Back in the day I thought she was about the coolest thing on the water...

 

When was this boat sailing? It was clearly before my time, but I've never even heard of this boat, and I've sailed in Detroit my whole life. What kind of boat was it?

 

I remember it...ask Jones...if correct Dawn Riley sailed on it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Carbon was initially allowed, or at least it hadn't been banned or penalised, in the mid-70s and it was used on the rig of Country Boy, a custom version of the Farr 1104, to reinforce/stiffen the tapered part of the mast. The Offshore Rating Council later waded in with a Spar Material Factor as an add-on to the IOR measurement sometime in 1977 that deemed carbon as 'exotic' and applied a penalty, I think regardless of how much of the offending material was used - I don't know how badly it affected Williwaw but I think the performance advantage for Country Boy didn't justify the penalty and the rig was changed before the 1977 NZ One Ton Cup trials.

 

Thank you - even with my addled brain I still remember the carbon issue clearly as we had to make a decision as the boat/rig wasn't finished; the tube not etched yet. And yes it would have been around '77. I remembered about exotics like boron and the ilk but we were going carbon until full stop when the edicts were relayed from the owner and Mull.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re Carbon on masts & al:

All the above is correct: mast material penalty imposed in '77 (3% if memory serves me right)

Nothing regarding hulls at the same time, Souter for one (and others too) was setting carbon-ribbons between two of the wooden plies, as was the case on our 3/4 tonner built that year. Whether it was useful is an other question ;)

 

Back to masts, I was working at the time from one major mast maker.

The "shock" of the multi-spreaders skinny mast + hydraulics + North sails as seen on Williwaw and at the '76 3/4 ton with the US crews, took existing mastmakers off-foot.

 

At the time of aluminum masts, mastmakers had to compromise and play around their existing tube sections to best adapt to the new boat RM. (fortunately till then the level classes had been centering around one type-form and sections drawn around it)

But.... all these sections were of the "large outline" + thin-walls type inherited from the Dick Carter's days.

 

Suddenly, the North-Stearn type of rig, proved more effective and sections+ expensive tooling were obsolete, while this newly founded sparmaker from Sturgeon Bay was just building his sections-portfolio in the new and right way.

 

Few ways out were offered, through very long tapers (as on Resolute Salmon) and/or wall-reinforcement according to individual mast panels.

Both techniques had been used for several years on the dinghy front and it was a natural if expensive move.

Acid work had also be used on dinghies to vary wall thickness but never was on offshore boats.

These masts had a slight advantage on Stearn masts: thin & thick-wall sections are heavier than wide & thin wall, by varying the section according to mast panels, one could save weight aloft thanks to the requested moment of inertia decreasing from mid bottom-panel to the top.

 

The penalty on carbon reinforcement sent "older" mastmakers back to square one. The company I was working for had to move to fabricated masts.

1 back-wall extrusion assembled on a thin-walled front extrusion then doubled up inside by a second extrusion wherever compression was at its maximum and section at its minimum.

 

Pretty effective but .... very expensive (much more than carbon reinforcement, and the rulemakers good-will turned against their intended goal)

 

Refinements in sailing techniques + the quest for little competitive advantages (rig windage) had just made winning much more expensive.

The fate of large IOR fleets was written on the wall but not so much due to the rule (despite obvious administration faults), rather due to fantastic pace the top of the fleet was going forward + the little difference between the top boats, obsolescence was now in months, investors (owners) became cautious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1969_enlarge.jpg

 

60' Offshore Racer arrow_right5_red.gif RUNNING TIDE Design No 1969 1969_thumb.jpgenlarge1.gif LOA 60 ft 6 in LWL 45 ft 0 in Beam 14 ft 3 in Draft 9 ft 0 in Few yachts have enjoyed the long-running racing success of RUNNING TIDE. Starting with class honors in the 1970 Bermuda Race and first place silver in the 1971 Southern Ocean Racing Conference (SORC), RUNNING TIDE amassed a case full of over 200 trophies for her two owners right up to victory in the 1983 Annapolis to Newport Race. Built of light weight (for the day) aluminum by Royal Huisman Shipyard, their first aluminum hull, she pre-dated the IOR rule by several years yet remained competitive under that rule for over a decade. Eventually, newer, optimized designs ruled the day but RUNNING TIDE remains with her second owners as a cruising yacht in Europe.

 

+1!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1969_enlarge.jpg

 

60' Offshore Racer arrow_right5_red.gif RUNNING TIDE Design No 1969 1969_thumb.jpgenlarge1.gif LOA 60 ft 6 in LWL 45 ft 0 in Beam 14 ft 3 in Draft 9 ft 0 in Few yachts have enjoyed the long-running racing success of RUNNING TIDE. Starting with class honors in the 1970 Bermuda Race and first place silver in the 1971 Southern Ocean Racing Conference (SORC), RUNNING TIDE amassed a case full of over 200 trophies for her two owners right up to victory in the 1983 Annapolis to Newport Race. Built of light weight (for the day) aluminum by Royal Huisman Shipyard, their first aluminum hull, she pre-dated the IOR rule by several years yet remained competitive under that rule for over a decade. Eventually, newer, optimized designs ruled the day but RUNNING TIDE remains with her second owners as a cruising yacht in Europe.

 

+1!

 

+2. Used to have some great match racing with them around the bay. Some great memories of "Big Al" hanging on the backstay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1969_enlarge.jpg

 

60' Offshore Racer arrow_right5_red.gif RUNNING TIDE Design No 1969 1969_thumb.jpgenlarge1.gif LOA 60 ft 6 in LWL 45 ft 0 in Beam 14 ft 3 in Draft 9 ft 0 in Few yachts have enjoyed the long-running racing success of RUNNING TIDE. Starting with class honors in the 1970 Bermuda Race and first place silver in the 1971 Southern Ocean Racing Conference (SORC), RUNNING TIDE amassed a case full of over 200 trophies for her two owners right up to victory in the 1983 Annapolis to Newport Race. Built of light weight (for the day) aluminum by Royal Huisman Shipyard, their first aluminum hull, she pre-dated the IOR rule by several years yet remained competitive under that rule for over a decade. Eventually, newer, optimized designs ruled the day but RUNNING TIDE remains with her second owners as a cruising yacht in Europe.

 

+1!

 

+2. Used to have some great match racing with them around the bay. Some great memories of "Big Al" hanging on the backstay.

 

Ha ha, was starting the '77 nassau race aboard the 'tide' when we were run over by the big blue pig 'ondine'. Al did several circles around the backstay, on impact. Amazingly, no one hurt, but a BIG shark bite out of the bow of bbp, stbd. side stanchions, and jib lead blocks flattened aboard tide, along with a heavy shower of blue painted micro balloon shrapnel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Al Van Meter was the second owner of Tide and I don't think the family still owns the boat. The last time I saw her was in Antigua many many years ago with a couple of French guys aboard. Who owns it now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Al Van Meter was the second owner of Tide and I don't think the family still owns the boat. The last time I saw her was in Antigua many many years ago with a couple of French guys aboard. Who owns it now?

 

Running Tide is now french owned and doing the Mediterranean events-charter business.

see http://www.voilier-r...e.fr/index.html and

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That can't be Tide, Tide had wire sheets!

 

:)

 

How many people capable of handling wire sheets can you find today ? + she does not seem that well maintained either, if I look at varnishes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That can't be Tide, Tide had wire sheets!

 

:)

 

How many people capable of handling wire sheets can you find today ? + she does not seem that well maintained either, if I look at varnishes.

Shudder :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Who cares where they are. They were bitches of things to sail and stupid designs with the pinched in transoms, fat beams, bumps and all that.

 

Kialoa, Ondine and Windward Passage were not IOR. That's why they were so good, except for the blue pig.

 

Clearly you are a young fuck who was not around in the heydey of IOR. Kialoas III to V were IOR designs, and damned good ones. Ondines III to V were IOR as well, although they were not great designs and not nearly as successful as the Kialoas. Before you young shits spout off about the lame IOR designs, I should remind you that many, many international race records were held by these "pigs" for decades, beaten only by $25 million canting keel supermaxis (10 to 20' longer than their IOR counterparts) with full professional crews in ideal conditions. Most IOR Maxis were 78 to 82', had amaeteur goons as crew, and were things of beauty. Beasts to sail, especially downwind, but they were not glorified powerboats like the 30m supermaxis of today. Remember the days of 6 to 10 full on maxis at any given international regatta? Remember the days of a dozen or more 50's lining up against each other during the day and their BN's smoking weed and fucking whores all night long? No? I didn't think so. Piss off. Who really gives a shit if a leadmine goes 15 knots or 25? It's all slow anyways. What matters is how you achieve the speed you do, and the IOR boats did it in bling bling bitchin' style. Everybody, and I mean everybody, had fun in those days. Full stop.

Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I remember races with 6,7 or 10 IOR Two-tonners running in a breeze side by side, rolling rail to rail, digging trenches in the water, where you could shoot through all the mains in one shot for an entire leg. Awesome racing, felt faster than a space shuttle and took major talent to keep them on their feet. The tactical broach to get to the inside was an interesting piece of the racing strategy kit.

 

Good sailboats? No. Good raceboats? Uhmmmm. Great fun? Absolutely.

 

Speaking of old IOR boats: Anybody remember Great Fun?

Great Fun....sunk on the way up the coast on a delivery from SoCal to NorCal a few years ago.

 

 

Great Fun was seriously slow- it rated very poorly, and sailed to that rating. Truly shocked me when I saw the certificate and had to input the data for the Coastal Cup race that year- so slow, I actually called an NA on our PHRF committee who confirmed the number. Blackaller sailed aboard her because of his saying that 'you should never go to sea in a boat that is shorter than your age', or something along those lines. Clearly he had an ancillary saying about the rating, probably something along the lines of '3x your age then divide by 2'.

 

Carry on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just that you asked this question shows that you have never steered a Peterson boat downwind in a blow. There is a reason that none of them have dirty spreaders.

 

Trust me. Bruce Farr and Monique did us all a huge favour.

 

Monique Who?

 

Monique was a Farr design, One tonner if memory serves, and she won the 78 Clipper Cup. A boat designed with a nod to the rule and a keen eye for a fast hull shape that was much more easily sailed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How many people capable of handling wire sheets can you find today ? + she does not seem that well maintained either, if I look at varnishes.

 

At least one (he says, slowly raising gnarled, scarred-up hands...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Great Fun was seriously slow- it rated very poorly, and sailed to that rating. Truly shocked me when I saw the certificate and had to input the data for the Coastal Cup race that year- so slow, I actually called an NA on our PHRF committee who confirmed the number. Blackaller sailed aboard her because of his saying that 'you should never go to sea in a boat that is shorter than your age', or something along those lines. Clearly he had an ancillary saying about the rating, probably something along the lines of '3x your age then divide by 2'.

 

Yeah.... "back in the day", I reverse-engineered the entire IOR rule, programmed it into my computer, and went into business doing rating consultations. The "official" way to get your boat re-rated was to make a change, call the measurer, pay for the process, wait for the numbers to get crunched back in Rhode Island, and when the new certificate showed up, you got to decide whether the change was good or not. If not... you made another change, did it all again. For 20 bucks, I'd tell an owner what "would" happen to his rating "if" he made a change. Could sit with people for an hour or so, model a whole bunch of possible mods (shorter "E"? no problem. longer "SPL"? Here's what you'd rate. etc.).... make a bunch of money, save the owner a bunch of money (and time, not to mention yard bills, sailmaker bills, etc). Life was good.

 

Got to the point where I was really good at finding "little" rating problems and adding them up into a couple of tenths. It was amazing, for example, how many boats got hit with a penalty for oversize battens. Cutting an eight of an inch off a batten could get you a tenth of a foot of rating. Literally. So I built a list of all the little tweaks and areas to pay attention to, and marketed it.

 

The point? Great Fun had just about *every* kind of rating problem in the book. Just about every possible "penalty" showed up in his certificate, I think I probably could have pulled at least half a *foot* out of his rating without any real changes to the boat, and, he didn't seem to care. Not sure if it was arrogance, or he just really truly didn't want to get sucked into the vortex of rating games, or what, but... I had several conversations with him, and he blew me off every time.

 

Gawd, I miss those days <laughing>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Great Fun was seriously slow- it rated very poorly, and sailed to that rating. Truly shocked me when I saw the certificate and had to input the data for the Coastal Cup race that year- so slow, I actually called an NA on our PHRF committee who confirmed the number. Blackaller sailed aboard her because of his saying that 'you should never go to sea in a boat that is shorter than your age', or something along those lines. Clearly he had an ancillary saying about the rating, probably something along the lines of '3x your age then divide by 2'.

 

Yeah.... "back in the day", I reverse-engineered the entire IOR rule, programmed it into my computer, and went into business doing rating consultations. The "official" way to get your boat re-rated was to make a change, call the measurer, pay for the process, wait for the numbers to get crunched back in Rhode Island, and when the new certificate showed up, you got to decide whether the change was good or not. If not... you made another change, did it all again. For 20 bucks, I'd tell an owner what "would" happen to his rating "if" he made a change. Could sit with people for an hour or so, model a whole bunch of possible mods (shorter "E"? no problem. longer "SPL"? Here's what you'd rate. etc.).... make a bunch of money, save the owner a bunch of money (and time, not to mention yard bills, sailmaker bills, etc). Life was good.

 

Got to the point where I was really good at finding "little" rating problems and adding them up into a couple of tenths. It was amazing, for example, how many boats got hit with a penalty for oversize battens. Cutting an eight of an inch off a batten could get you a tenth of a foot of rating. Literally. So I built a list of all the little tweaks and areas to pay attention to, and marketed it.

 

The point? Great Fun had just about *every* kind of rating problem in the book. Just about every possible "penalty" showed up in his certificate, I think I probably could have pulled at least half a *foot* out of his rating without any real changes to the boat, and, he didn't seem to care. Not sure if it was arrogance, or he just really truly didn't want to get sucked into the vortex of rating games, or what, but... I had several conversations with him, and he blew me off every time.

 

Gawd, I miss those days <laughing>

You may have been looking at the trees, and missed the forest! Clay was a very 'creative' guy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How many people capable of handling wire sheets can you find today ? + she does not seem that well maintained either, if I look at varnishes.

 

At least one (he says, slowly raising gnarled, scarred-up hands...)

 

Clear ! those with "hands-on" experience probably all have greyish if not white hair by now ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IOR boats may have had their problems but my Catalina 38 still turns heads and gets a lot of great comments. The best part is, both it and my neighbor's Peterson 34 are consistently at the podium in a fairly competitive fleet which includes many newer boats.

 

I will say that once we're off the race course the C38 is much more comfortable to party on...after 500+/- miles on the Peterson I just wanted to get on land for a while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Who cares where they are. They were bitches of things to sail and stupid designs with the pinched in transoms, fat beams, bumps and all that.

 

Kialoa, Ondine and Windward Passage were not IOR. That's why they were so good, except for the blue pig.

 

Clearly you are a young fuck who was not around in the heydey of IOR. Kialoas III to V were IOR designs, and damned good ones. Ondines III to V were IOR as well, although they were not great designs and not nearly as successful as the Kialoas. Before you young shits spout off about the lame IOR designs, I should remind you that many, many international race records were held by these "pigs" for decades, beaten only by $25 million canting keel supermaxis (10 to 20' longer than their IOR counterparts) with full professional crews in ideal conditions. Most IOR Maxis were 78 to 82', had amaeteur goons as crew, and were things of beauty. Beasts to sail, especially downwind, but they were not glorified powerboats like the 30m supermaxis of today. Remember the days of 6 to 10 full on maxis at any given international regatta? Remember the days of a dozen or more 50's lining up against each other during the day and their BN's smoking weed and fucking whores all night long? No? I didn't think so. Piss off. Who really gives a shit if a leadmine goes 15 knots or 25? It's all slow anyways. What matters is how you achieve the speed you do, and the IOR boats did it in bling bling bitchin' style. Everybody, and I mean everybody, had fun in those days. Full stop.

 

I am grievously affronted by your insinuation that we fucked whores all night long. Most of us were not in the financial position to be able to afford whores at any price level and had to rely on a steady stream of owners' wives, girlfriends, daughters or "nieces" and the occasional racer chaser (wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more!) The daughters of those pompous self important dignitaries sent along to present prizes at end of regatta ceremonies were a particular treat if one got lucky enough or was prepared to put one's dignity aside and stand in line. Remember the days of chicks who would only do bowmen?

 

Agree with you though that it was so much fun sailing back in the day when men were real men and not the flashly uniformed button pushers that have replaced the real sailors of that truly golden era!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Al Van Meter was the second owner of Tide and I don't think the family still owns the boat. The last time I saw her was in Antigua many many years ago with a couple of French guys aboard. Who owns it now?

the Van Meters sold it quite a while ago.

 

IB

1969_enlarge.jpg

 

60' Offshore Racer arrow_right5_red.gif RUNNING TIDE Design No 1969 1969_thumb.jpgenlarge1.gif LOA 60 ft 6 in LWL 45 ft 0 in Beam 14 ft 3 in Draft 9 ft 0 in Few yachts have enjoyed the long-running racing success of RUNNING TIDE. Starting with class honors in the 1970 Bermuda Race and first place silver in the 1971 Southern Ocean Racing Conference (SORC), RUNNING TIDE amassed a case full of over 200 trophies for her two owners right up to victory in the 1983 Annapolis to Newport Race. Built of light weight (for the day) aluminum by Royal Huisman Shipyard, their first aluminum hull, she pre-dated the IOR rule by several years yet remained competitive under that rule for over a decade. Eventually, newer, optimized designs ruled the day but RUNNING TIDE remains with her second owners as a cruising yacht in Europe.

 

+1!

 

+2. Used to have some great match racing with them around the bay. Some great memories of "Big Al" hanging on the backstay.

 

IB, the other one I remember from the bay back in the day was Cayenne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

©1979 Paul J Mello. (personal use is just fine) 1979 Worlds Newport, RI

 

Ah yes, Firewater and Downtown. Two examples of NAs finally figuring out how to get a decent sized mainsail on an IOR boat. Firewater and her sistership Celebration - Cook One Tons went like scalded dogs in their day. Mr. Bill's Downtown, an early Farr was a pre-Stripes era sled. Nice shots Paul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any news of where Golden Apost-52142-0-82170400-1358839249_thumb.jpgpple, the first Ron Holland One Tonner is these days?

 

On Shockwave40's interesting photoblog:

http://shockwave40.blogspot.fr/2012/10/golden-apple-1987-fastnet-race-plymouth.html

 

Although mistaken for the blue Golden Apple of the Sun, you can see that she was still racing in 1987. Long time ago though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

©1979 Paul J Mello. (personal use is just fine) 1979 Worlds Newport, RI

 

Ah yes, Firewater and Downtown. Two examples of NAs finally figuring out how to get a decent sized mainsail on an IOR boat. Firewater and her sistership Celebration - Cook One Tons went like scalded dogs in their day. Mr. Bill's Downtown, an early Farr was a pre-Stripes era sled. Nice shots Paul.

Firewater and Celebration aren't sisters. The Clarks built Celebration for the adm. cup. Never set the world on fire like they had hoped. I started sailing on Celebration in 1984. End for End jibes on a 40 footer were alwas fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

©1979 Paul J Mello. (personal use is just fine) 1979 Worlds Newport, RI

 

Ah yes, Firewater and Downtown. Two examples of NAs finally figuring out how to get a decent sized mainsail on an IOR boat. Firewater and her sistership Celebration - Cook One Tons went like scalded dogs in their day. Mr. Bill's Downtown, an early Farr was a pre-Stripes era sled. Nice shots Paul.

Firewater and Celebration aren't sisters. The Clarks built Celebration for the adm. cup. Never set the world on fire like they had hoped. I started sailing on Celebration in 1984. End for End jibes on a 40 footer were alwas fun.

They were sisters. You're talking about the second Celebration. The first Celebration was a Cook 27.5 One Ton (identical to the Firewater in the photo) built about 1979 or so. End for end jibes on a 40 foot fractional was no big deal - try it on a masthead chute.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That can't be Tide, Tide had wire sheets!

 

:)

 

How many people capable of handling wire sheets can you find today ? + she does not seem that well maintained either, if I look at varnishes.

And sails even if "new" ones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

©1979 Paul J Mello. (personal use is just fine) 1979 Worlds Newport, RI

 

Ah yes, Firewater and Downtown. Two examples of NAs finally figuring out how to get a decent sized mainsail on an IOR boat. Firewater and her sistership Celebration - Cook One Tons went like scalded dogs in their day. Mr. Bill's Downtown, an early Farr was a pre-Stripes era sled. Nice shots Paul.

Firewater and Celebration aren't sisters. The Clarks built Celebration for the adm. cup. Never set the world on fire like they had hoped. I started sailing on Celebration in 1984. End for End jibes on a 40 footer were alwas fun.

They were sisters. You're talking about the second Celebration. The first Celebration was a Cook 27.5 One Ton (identical to the Firewater in the photo) built about 1979 or so. End for end jibes on a 40 foot fractional was no big deal - try it on a masthead chute.

 

Do it all the time. End for end with a 17' penalty pole with a masthead kite on a 39'er. Swapping the pole across is no big deal up to about 28. Then we go frac. Like any jibe, it's really all about the driver, the main and runners. The bow peeps just get yelled at for tradition's sake. No, wait...they yell at us.

 

Don't know about Golden Apple (of the sun), but Silver Apple (of the moon) is sitting in Seattle. Sort of maintained, but haven't actually seen it sailing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heard a story about a Contessa 35 (Peterson design) called Black Magic. Owned by Max Gordon. As the story goes, Gordon cut some kind of deal to get some carbon from a gut he knw in the biz. Supposedly the stringers and ribs, ruder/stock and some foredeck reinforcement. The story goes the boat did quite well, bu I can't find any info on her. Later the boat was sold, painted blue and renamed Blue Blazer.

 

Supposedly the next oiwner became a 2 boat owner and Blue Blazer wasn't selling. Then she mysteriously was "stolen" and "recovered" minus the boom, backstay, cushions, a couple of winch drums and stove. Just enough for an insurance total.

 

Kinda like to know how much of the story is true and how much made up. Ther IOR days sure had some fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From my knowledge it is a sistership to IMP. I believe it previously was called "Secret Affair" and was raced in the Great Lakes. It was not "Midnight Sun" which was also raced in LIS.

The "Midnight Sun" I was referring to was the 40' built in wood by Souters. The 50' was built by Huisman and did indeed end up on LIS with named retained. There was a IMP sistership called "Impetous" I think owned by an Irishman.

 

IIRC Souters built Impetuous at the last minute for the '77 British AC trials, she was cold moulded with carbon between skins, the word was she was built out of all the leftovers from that winters build programme. I think she went out to do the Southern Cross that year then returned and was raced on S Coast for a few years, became 'Flourish' for a while & then 'Alvine VII' which is when I did a few races, Cowes Week & Round the Island etc on her. Think she had a couple of class wins in windy RORC races that season (1986?) and was 'entertaining' downhill like all others of her breed! No idea where she is now if she survives; quite a few frames were broken & repaired & she was very wet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites