Innocent Bystander 842 #2001 Posted September 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, bridhb said: Hopefully I chose the second. It still does have those weird ass "chines" that are very pronounced in the mid sections but fair out towards the bow and stern. I do find it interesting to see the way the different designers chose to attack the artificial rating problem instead of designing a fast boat for a given length and displacement. I only saw it in magazines. My first "big" boat was a Cape Dory typhoon in 1980 (yeah, I know). Prior to that it was dingies and surfboards so I unfortunately missed the whole IOR era, except in magazines. I remember thinking the Farr boats in the magazines just looked faster by the Hollands, Frers and those types just looked powerful and "seaworthy". I didn't know squat about steering downwind under spinnaker. Keep in mind, in the early IOR days rating rules generally tried to punish things that made boats faster or able to carry more sail. Those factors were measured at various stations and stability estimated from inclining the boat. Since the rule was published, it didn't take long before design shops were able to trade off "things that were fast" with bulges, bumps and hollows that made the boat appear slow. Add in the roaring economy and great tax deductions for donated boats in the US and top programs had new boats every year or so. As the rule morphed to fight "rule beating", the designs move faster to exploit slow but faster than the rating. Even the "great boats" got nips and tucks every couple of years to optimize the rating. As I recall, Running Tide would visit Derecktor's in Ft Lauderdale every couple of years for a spa treatment in the early 70's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chimp too 302 #2002 Posted September 28, 2020 On 4/21/2020 at 10:18 PM, Laser1 said: Yup. MC3 is still looking the same. She was visiting the River Dart (Dartmouth) last Autumn. Quite a big boat in that setting. Sorry to jump in so late in the thread, not checked in for a while. Tried not to say it, but tat isn't MC IV/Samurai as she is a schooner with identical fore and aft masts. Not MC III either. Don't know what it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jhc 126 #2003 Posted September 28, 2020 Running Tide was designed and built during the CCA era. When I raced aboard ‘Tide in 1977 there was no bog, or fairing on the aluminum hull. Was as dimpled and un-fair as an aluminum Coast Guard cutter. There were no IOR speed bumps, above, or below the waterline. ’Tide was at that time impeccably maintained. I believe The mast was replaced with a taller rig in ‘78. The boats that were bumped, and chopped to optimize to the rule were generally ‘70s designs. A different design era altogether. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trovão 440 #2004 Posted September 28, 2020 15 hours ago, SloopJonB said: That's called progress. You probably wouldn't want a '65 Shelby GT350 either. no? are you sure? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trovão 440 #2005 Posted September 28, 2020 4 hours ago, sledracr said: There was (it actually started in the 70s). The two schools of thought, broadly overgeneralized, were -- hull-shapes optimized for the rule, resulting in distorted shapes that "rated well" -- hull-shapes optimized for sailing, resulting in fast/fair shapes that rated high, but sailed fast enough to make it worthwhile. i'do go with the 2nd option any day. fast is fun... f*ck the rating. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SF Woody Sailor 310 #2006 Posted September 28, 2020 Just now, Trovão said: i'do go with the 2nd option any day. fast is fun... f*ck the rating. And when it is your money you get to make that choice! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trovão 440 #2007 Posted September 28, 2020 1 minute ago, SF Woody Sailor said: And when it is your money you get to make that choice! sure i do... i have, actually. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Next Level 15 #2008 Posted September 29, 2020 14 hours ago, FixinGit said: @Next Level Bottom paint done, sails checked and serviced, bilge cleaned,Old graphics removed,Decks scrubbed, old lines removed, mast gate fix on the weld table now, Rudder bearings replaced but gonna need to drop rudder again to investigate where/why theres still play before sailing. Then rigging birthday. All on hold just now as im stuck interstate due to border restrictions. I’m itching to get back onboard. Looks like you have done a big job already. I look forward to seeing the finished product! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuso007 525 #2009 Posted September 29, 2020 15 hours ago, bridhb said: 1988 Dehler 34, which I understand is a very crusified version of the early 1980's DB1/DB2, that were fairly successful from what info I can find. We won a lot of races back in the day on a DB1... I loved that boat, "Sirius I", she belonged to the Spanish Navy. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FixinGit 110 #2010 Posted September 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Next Level said: Looks like you have done a big job already. I look forward to seeing the finished product! I paid someone to do the bottom paint and bearings..Wish i had done it myself but time was a major issue. She’ll get there before the end of 2020 i hope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Whinging Pom 142 #2011 Posted September 29, 2020 DB-1 was a weapon in the light stuff. Nifty space frame too. Shame about the daft clutch arrangement, just made for friction. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WGWarburton 652 #2012 Posted September 29, 2020 While we're talking about older Dehlers... Anyone familiar with the Dehler 31? Seems to tick many of our boxes but I've not seen one in person, yet... Cheers, W. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ROADKILL666 308 #2013 Posted September 29, 2020 32 minutes ago, Whinging Pom said: DB-1 was a weapon in the light stuff. Nifty space frame too. Shame about the daft clutch arrangement, just made for friction. My pops had a db2 loved it but you’re right the pit area was shit.Thank god I was bow. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuso007 525 #2014 Posted September 29, 2020 1 hour ago, WGWarburton said: While we're talking about older Dehlers... Anyone familiar with the Dehler 31? Seems to tick many of our boxes but I've not seen one in person, yet... Cheers, W. Actually the skipper of the DB1 I posted before owned a Dehler 31 for a while. Only sailed it once myself, can't really say much... He loved it, that I know. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ROADKILL666 308 #2015 Posted September 29, 2020 I loved the flip up toe rails no my dads db2 the best thing for rough stuff.I will see if I can find a pic of the after math of one race.Not good ending. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobot 1,859 #2016 Posted September 29, 2020 Did someone say DB1? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geff 183 #2017 Posted September 29, 2020 2 hours ago, hobot said: Did someone say DB1? One of the BEST threads EVER on this forum! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ned 99 #2018 Posted September 29, 2020 3 hours ago, hobot said: Did someone say DB1? Whoa! Flashbacks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ROADKILL666 308 #2019 Posted September 29, 2020 One db2 no rig Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
P_Wop 1,730 #2021 Posted September 29, 2020 Jack Greenberg, the surgeon, hence the boat's name. A very good man. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
12 metre 345 #2022 Posted September 29, 2020 47 minutes ago, ROADKILL666 said: Wasn't this the Holland design that had the misfortune of being designed just before Imp? Also, pretty certain there was a photo of Jack Knife posted on here not too long ago with her looking forlorn and quite well weathered sitting on the side of a road or in some yard amongst the weeds. Sad end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ROADKILL666 308 #2023 Posted September 29, 2020 That is the j41 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geff 183 #2024 Posted September 30, 2020 1 hour ago, ROADKILL666 said: That is the j41 I remember the J41. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bridhb 495 #2025 Posted September 30, 2020 10 hours ago, Whinging Pom said: DB-1 was a weapon in the light stuff. Nifty space frame too. Shame about the daft clutch arrangement, just made for friction. The cruiser has the clutches and winches on top of the cabin, and no cool space frame unfortunately. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LarryE 40 #2026 Posted September 30, 2020 17 hours ago, ROADKILL666 said: One db2 no rig Is the DB that went for a walk during hurricane Andrew and was never found. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cms 493 #2027 Posted September 30, 2020 On 9/29/2020 at 6:08 PM, WGWarburton said: While we're talking about older Dehlers... Anyone familiar with the Dehler 31? Seems to tick many of our boxes but I've not seen one in person, yet... Cheers, W. Really good boat. The 28, 31 and 34 are a family with similar features and build quality. The Nova interiors are grey rather than varnish. If you find one at a sensible price, grab it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cms 493 #2028 Posted September 30, 2020 I probably still have a chunk of "Luv", Db1 that pitchpoled on Salcombe bar ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ROADKILL666 308 #2029 Posted September 30, 2020 58 minutes ago, LarryE said: Is the DB that went for a walk during hurricane Andrew and was never found. That would be ours.We did find a small bit of it and dragged it to the club.Still had the runner winches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LarryE 40 #2030 Posted September 30, 2020 Went with Sid Doren, in the powerboat looking for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ROADKILL666 308 #2031 Posted September 30, 2020 We found a chunk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mad 3,704 #2032 Posted October 1, 2020 On 9/25/2020 at 2:51 AM, SF Woody Sailor said: Did you look at the age of the guys on board? Electric winches and Geritol would be more useful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mad 3,704 #2033 Posted October 1, 2020 On 9/25/2020 at 10:45 PM, P_Wop said: Happy memories of a 1981 Solent AC race on the Holland 51 Midnight Sun with Timmy Twinstay driving. A certain (un-nameable) Irish 50 behind us hoisted their no. 2 with huge pain and effort outside the heavy no. 1. Then they tacked, and with more huge pain and effort dropped the no. 1 down the outside. Timmy just shook his head and announced "That's an Irish tack change." And that's the day the foredeck crew quit, or at least went back down the boat to fantasy land had a serious word i hope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stumblingthunder 565 #2034 Posted October 1, 2020 On 9/29/2020 at 7:01 PM, P_Wop said: Jack Greenberg, the surgeon, hence the boat's name. A very good man. I had found some pixs from Antigua RW 1986 of the Jack Knife crew preparing to do Lay Day battle. Was going to send copies to Dr. Greenberg but found he had passed away last year. Very nice gentleman. Will post once I scan them. - Stumbling 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kotick 8 #2035 Posted October 10, 2020 On 9/29/2020 at 9:33 AM, chuso007 said: We won a lot of races back in the day on a DB1... I loved that boat, "Sirius I", she belonged to the Spanish Navy. Most sailors had to pay for their boats, but a few had boats paid by the Navy, which of course we financed with our taxes. It all comes down to having the right friends. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billy backstay 944 #2036 Posted October 10, 2020 One of my favorite pics of an SORC IOR boat. I think the rigger I worked for in the early 80's was onboard, and I think it was the Ocean Triangle Race... EDIT.. Love Machine I or II, not sure which.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuso007 525 #2037 Posted October 10, 2020 33 minutes ago, kotick said: Most sailors had to pay for their boats, but a few had boats paid by the Navy, which of course we financed with our taxes. It all comes down to having the right friends. Funny, a Catalonian, whose entire imaginary country is paid by our taxes and 300 years of privileges from the different governments of Spain, trying to be a smartass. Maybe you want your 3%, as usual? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 7,986 #2038 Posted October 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, chuso007 said: Funny, a Catalonian, whose entire imaginary country is paid by our taxes and 300 years of privileges from the different governments of Spain, trying to be a smartass. Maybe you want your 3%, as usual? Are you saying that Spain has its very own Quebec? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mudsailor 84 #2039 Posted October 11, 2020 If it was only a DB1 to start......there was the Farr Maxi Hispaniola after.......all paid for by the Spanish navy And Mr 10% got his part (don’t remember his name but I know we got in trouble in sending the invoice direct without his ‘extra’ included.......) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charisma94 220 #2040 Posted October 11, 2020 29 minutes ago, Mudsailor said: If it was only a DB1 to start......there was the Farr Maxi Hispaniola after.......all paid for by the Spanish navy What about all the "Bribon" boats? El Ray, Juan Carlos' jet boat weapon "Fortuna"... Also paid for by the navy... 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billy backstay 944 #2041 Posted October 11, 2020 15 hours ago, billy backstay said: One of my favorite pics of an SORC IOR boat. I think the rigger I worked for in the early 80's was onboard, and I think it was the Ocean Triangle Race... EDIT.. Love Machine I or II, not sure which.... I don't find it online but there is a very similar photo of the "Elusive", the Evelyn 32 that I crewed on many years ago... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
12 metre 345 #2042 Posted October 11, 2020 16 hours ago, billy backstay said: One of my favorite pics of an SORC IOR boat. I think the rigger I worked for in the early 80's was onboard, and I think it was the Ocean Triangle Race... EDIT.. Love Machine I or II, not sure which.... Love Machine 2 (you can see the 2 in this close up). Y.M. Tanton is in the photo in blue foulies somewhere beneath the wall of water. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuso007 525 #2043 Posted October 11, 2020 16 hours ago, charisma94 said: What about all the "Bribon" boats? El Ray, Juan Carlos' jet boat weapon "Fortuna"... Also paid for by the navy... It must be ignorant babbling idiots day today... None of those boats were paid by the Navy. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuso007 525 #2044 Posted October 11, 2020 17 hours ago, Mudsailor said: If it was only a DB1 to start......there was the Farr Maxi Hispaniola after.......all paid for by the Spanish navy And Mr 10% got his part (don’t remember his name but I know we got in trouble in sending the invoice direct without his ‘extra’ included.......) Yeah, the Spanish Navy has had a fleet of racing boats for decades. Good for them and good for many kids like me who learned to race on them (and no, my dad was never in the Navy, if they needed crew, anyone could hop on board). About that 10% guy, I wouldn't be surprised, but have the balls to say his name, and yours too. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charisma94 220 #2045 Posted October 11, 2020 1 hour ago, chuso007 said: It must be ignorant babbling idiots day today... It seems so. OK. The taxpayer paid for them then then... same difference. They all lived at the navy spot in Porto Pi where Hispania lived. I crewed on Bribon (IOR 50') in 3 (I think) Copa del Rey regattas, with, wait for it, Spanish Navy crew and King JC at the helm. The captain on Fortuna was a serving naval officer, chief engineer too... GFY. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuso007 525 #2046 Posted October 11, 2020 Bribón boats were all owned by Josep Cusí, not paid by tax money, and yes, they were kept in Porto Pi (some of them) and a few of the crew belonged to the Navy. So what? The Captain of Fortuna was NOT a Spanish Navy officer (He wasn't even a Spaniard). I doubt the CE was either. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huwp 16 #2047 Posted October 12, 2020 11 hours ago, 12 metre said: Love Machine 2 (you can see the 2 in this close up). Y.M. Tanton is in the photo in blue foulies somewhere beneath the wall of water. Probably wearing Line 7 PVC which would have kept most of that water out right ???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeO 108 #2048 Posted October 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, huwp said: Probably wearing Line 7 PVC which would have kept most of that water in right ???? FIFY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Left Shift 2,663 #2049 Posted October 12, 2020 50 minutes ago, huwp said: Probably wearing Line 7 PVC which would have kept most of that water out right ???? Actually, Line 7 kept the water out OK-ish. What it kept in was all your sweat. I've never been colder than wearing Line 7 in a PNW winter race. But Love Machine looks all Helly Hansen yellow, but who made the blue stuff? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zenmasterfred 404 #2050 Posted October 12, 2020 Was the guinea pig for North's first foul weather gear that year at SORC. I determined if it could breath out it could breath in and it was pretty wet, hard to tell if I was sweating. Definitely remember the waves breaking over the boats sideways whilst reaching back and forth across the Gulf Stream, now that was some fun! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeO 108 #2051 Posted October 12, 2020 9 hours ago, Left Shift said: Actually, Line 7 kept the water out OK-ish. What it kept in was all your sweat. I've never been colder than wearing Line 7 in a PNW winter race. But Love Machine looks all Helly Hansen yellow, but who made the blue stuff? Yep, kept it out, kept your own in. Sailed many a year with a set in the early 80's. Mine were white w/ gold & blue stripe. Swedish crew-mate wanted to swap with me, (his had red & blue stripes)... said no way, my set was newer! I think Line 7 did make some yellow gear, not as prevalent as the white though. Blue could have been early North stuff. Knew someone who had a pair - leaked like the proverbial sieve. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kotick 8 #2052 Posted October 12, 2020 On 10/11/2020 at 1:26 AM, chuso007 said: Funny, a Catalonian, whose entire imaginary country is paid by our taxes and 300 years of privileges from the different governments of Spain, trying to be a smartass. Maybe you want your 3%, as usual? Spaniards, as usual, denigrating others to hide their shortcomings. All of the king's boats were paid in full, plus expenses, by a Barcelona (catalan) bank. I don't know who paid fot the Navy boats but is is not difficult to guess - taxpayers. And our sailor king is now on the run in Abu Dhabi, I don't know if they race one designs there. Yes, Spain has it's own Quebec, but much more abused. I said what I had to say, I will not reply to this anymore, it would overflow to PA. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TUBBY 298 #2053 Posted October 14, 2020 On 10/13/2020 at 12:19 AM, JoeO said: Yep, kept it out, kept your own in. Sailed many a year with a set in the early 80's. Mine were white w/ gold & blue stripe. Swedish crew-mate wanted to swap with me, (his had red & blue stripes)... said no way, my set was newer! I think Line 7 did make some yellow gear, not as prevalent as the white though. Blue could have been early North stuff. Knew someone who had a pair - leaked like the proverbial sieve. Snap! I also had the Blue/Gold stripes. I was told that they were from a special run for the '83 Aussie 12s. Advance Blue/Gold Australia (2) Green/Gold Challenge Blue/Red Made sense as most Line 7 gear had 2 matching stripes & I got mine in 84. And yes not much water got in but, NO sweat got out! You often ended up just as wet as those without gear. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeO 108 #2054 Posted October 14, 2020 2 hours ago, TUBBY said: Snap! I also had the Blue/Gold stripes. I was told that they were from a special run for the '83 Aussie 12s. Advance Blue/Gold Australia (2) Green/Gold Challenge Blue/Red Made sense as most Line 7 gear had 2 matching stripes & I got mine in 84. And yes not much water got in but, NO sweat got out! You often ended up just as wet as those without gear. Bought my set somewhere between mid 1982 and early 1983... so it fits the timeline. Damn! Never knew I was a fan boy of Advance! ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TUBBY 298 #2055 Posted October 14, 2020 She needed all the fans she could get! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carcrash 361 #2056 Posted October 14, 2020 On 10/11/2020 at 3:56 PM, charisma94 said: OK. The taxpayer paid for them then then... same difference. They all lived at the navy spot in Porto Pi where Hispania lived. I crewed on Bribon (IOR 50') in 3 (I think) Copa delRey regattas, with, wait for it, Spanish Navy crew and King JC at the helm. The captain on Fortuna was a serving naval officer, chief engineer too... Um, the King owns the country. It is all his money, economy, lives of the citizens, all of it. The USA was founded on the principle of killing off the aristocracy. It came back of course: Trickle Down Economics really means Aristocracy. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SF Woody Sailor 310 #2057 Posted October 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, carcrash said: Um, the King owns the country. It is all his money, economy, lives of the citizens, all of it. The USA was founded on the principle of killing off the aristocracy. It came back of course: Trickle Down Economics really means Aristocracy. If you are going to jump in with a comment it would be nice if you had even the remotest clue what the fuck you are talking about. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ropetrick 75 #2058 Posted October 14, 2020 Or you should just take it to Political Anarchy. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug zitski 240 #2059 Posted October 14, 2020 On 10/11/2020 at 5:26 PM, chuso007 said: Yeah, the Spanish Navy has had a fleet of racing boats for decades. Good for them and good for many kids like me who learned to race on them (and no, my dad was never in the Navy, if they needed crew, anyone could hop on board). About that 10% guy, I wouldn't be surprised, but have the balls to say his name, and yours too. Yah , fantastic program that Spanish navy fleet turbo charged Spanish big boat sailing talent Nacho , Pepe , Pachi .... remember the Brazilian Ronaldo Campos That lost keel on the America’s cup Espana 92 ? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 7,986 #2060 Posted October 15, 2020 5 hours ago, carcrash said: Trickle Down Economics really means Aristocracy. Never heard it put that way but that is spot on. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liquid 266 #2061 Posted November 2, 2020 I found my photo archive recently... 1984 Newport to Bermuda (upwind nightmare!): Anybody know anything about the boat from Wyoming with dual companionways? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MauiPunter 667 #2063 Posted November 2, 2020 I miss those pointy sterns. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Former MDR Vandal 1 34 #2064 Posted November 3, 2020 Barbara and Brad looking fast on Secret Love … Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigrpowr 182 #2065 Posted November 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Former MDR Vandal 1 said: Barbara and Brad looking fast on Secret Love … i remember the first time i saw that boat.. may have been a catalina race, but i was drooling over it. had to be mid 80's . i dont even know where it was sailed out of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Former MDR Vandal 1 34 #2066 Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, bigrpowr said: i remember the first time i saw that boat.. may have been a catalina race, but i was drooling over it. had to be mid 80's . i dont even know where it was sailed out of. Secret Love sailed out of Marina del Rey; Del Rey Yacht Club. Other boats sailing out of DRYC back then included Monte Livingston on Checkmate (a Peterson 50, then later a Peterson 55 f/k/a Bullfrog), Tribute, a SC 50 run by Jimmy Feurstein, and Alan Puckett’s Ericson 46 (he was a dual member with Cal YC). The DRYC membership chartered Citius, the frac SC 70 (later Ole) for the PV Race, which the club used to run. Other boats included Salsa, Leonard Sadler’s Frers 36, a perennial class winner at Audi/Sobstad, Audi/North, Trimble/North (Golison) Race Week, Main Squeeze, a Claudia Wainer helmed, Rick Dorfman owned Schock 35 that was always a top boat during the heyday of the Schock 35 class and Locura, a N/M "mini" 91 foot super yacht that won the Millennium Cup in Auckland in 2000. Marina del Rey had other good boats back then including the SC 70 Evolution (first Bob Doughtey, then Brack Ducker), Shamrock and then numerous Pyewackets (although Roy Sr. entered as a LAYC boat), the first Christine (Fred Preiss’ Maxi), John MacLaurin’s Davidson One Tonner Pendragon and also MORC Stardancer, as well as the Kilroy, Jr. Two Tonner Predator, Cavalli’s Frers 43 Schockwave and Jake Wood’s Mull 82 Sorcery. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
P_Wop 1,730 #2067 Posted November 3, 2020 12 hours ago, hermetic said: germ Gem was so called because she was so slow anyone could catch it. Unkind, I know... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigrpowr 182 #2068 Posted November 3, 2020 43 minutes ago, Former MDR Vandal 1 said: Secret Love sailed out of Marina del Rey; Del Rey Yacht Club. Other boats sailing out of DRYC back then included Monte Livingston on Checkmate (a Peterson 50, then later a Peterson 55 f/k/a Bullfrog), Tribute, a SC 50 run by Jimmy Feurstein, and Alan Puckett’s Ericson 46 (he was a dual member with Cal YC). The DRYC membership chartered Citius, the frac SC 70 (later Ole) for the PV Race, which the club used to run. Other boats included Salsa, Leonard Sadler’s Frers 36, a perennial class winner at Audi/Sobstad, Audi/North, Trimble/North (Golison) Race Week, Main Squeeze, a Claudia Wainer helmed, Rick Dorfman owned Schock 35 that was always a top boat during the heyday of the Schock 35 class and Locura, a N/M "mini" 91 foot super yacht that won the Millennium Cup in Auckland in 2000. Marina del Rey had other good boats back then including the SC 70 Evolution (first Bob Doughtey, then Brack Ducker), Shamrock and then numerous Pyewackets (although Roy Sr. entered as a LAYC boat), the first Christine (Fred Preiss’ Maxi), John MacLaurin’s Davidson One Tonner Pendragon and also MORC Stardancer, as well as the Kilroy, Jr. Two Tonner Predator, Cavalli’s Frers 43 Schockwave and Jake Wood’s Mull 82 Sorcery. funny you say that, my family moved up to ventura county from orange county in 88 and my dad hated channel islands, wind was good but it was always cold and nasty so he went to MDR and bought a shock 34GP from the dude that ran the catalina yachts there, i wanna say it was steve curran it was called tiburon? we campaigned it for a couple years then had dennis choate build him an andrews 56, we frequently had a couple folks from evolution on the boat ( when bob owned it) , bob even took me out on it for a day sail and i was in heaven. wednesday nights were always relatively tame but the weather was for the most part warm, we were members of CalYC , and it was a great place as a kid to race a laser, some of the best times of my life. Roy's shamrock was parked by us and Pyewacket was always somewhere near it. i wanna say florence henderson used to have a steam pot over there as well. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Former MDR Vandal 1 34 #2069 Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, bigrpowr said: funny you say that, my family moved up to ventura county from orange county in 88 and my dad hated channel islands, wind was good but it was always cold and nasty so he went to MDR and bought a shock 34GP from the dude that ran the catalina yachts there, i wanna say it was steve curran it was called tiburon? we campaigned it for a couple years then had dennis choate build him an andrews 56, we frequently had a couple folks from evolution on the boat ( when bob owned it) , bob even took me out on it for a day sail and i was in heaven. wednesday nights were always relatively tame but the weather was for the most part warm, we were members of CalYC , and it was a great place as a kid to race a laser, some of the best times of my life. Roy's shamrock was parked by us and Pyewacket was always somewhere near it. i wanna say florence henderson used to have a steam pot over there as well. A lot of this was covered earlier in this thread … I quote myself: “Steve Curran had the Schock 34 Tiburon in MDR. He had a boat brokerage at the time. He had a lot of good sailors on that boat including Ron M., Phil A. (Flash), Phil F. (not the one from DRYC), Greg R., etc. Story goes he took Dick Schmidt out on it and that's how Dick decided to buy Outlier. This was mid to late 80's before I moved to LA for the second time.” Aldora has also been brought up in this thread or a similar one before. It sat down on Death Row at Cal with the two SC 50’s Deception and Rocket and the Frers 43 Jano. Doughtey lost the furniture dealership after the divorce in 1990 so you took guys off of Brack Duker’s crew. Leweck sailed with you guys. He always made sure he was on a good boat that had money … Andrews was on a roll back then with Cantata (sp?) and Alchemy as well as Persuasion and Excel’s Growler all culminating with America’s Challenge. I remember sitting at Luau Larry’s with Rex Banks when he was moving your Dad’s boat back from San Diego. Now that guy knew how to sail and had been everywhere … Great guy. Florence Henderson had a large (for 1990’s MDR standards) motor yacht at the end of the Cal docks named Big Flo. She was a nice lady. When I saw her I would hum “Don’t Throw Bouquets at Me” from “Oklahoma !” and she would join in. I think she enjoyed the fact I knew she had done something other than “The Brady Bunch.” BTW, I spelled Brack's last name incorrectly in my earlier post ... it is Duker, not "Ducker." Either way, Longy and Silent Bob will chime in if I got something wrong. Someone is going to ask what Doughtey's Soverel 33 was named. It was The Pretender. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
longy 457 #2070 Posted November 3, 2020 4 hours ago, P_Wop said: Gem was so called because she was so slow anyone could catch it. Unkind, I know... She had a lot of issues with deck hardware migrating towards the load 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunseeker 138 #2071 Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, longy said: She had a lot of issues with deck hardware migrating towards the load That’s a hysterical description, never heard that before. Keeping that for future use. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fivestar 8 #2072 Posted November 3, 2020 8 hours ago, P_Wop said: Gem was so called because she was so slow anyone could catch it. Unkind, I know... Who was the designer? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hermetic 300 #2073 Posted November 3, 2020 2 hours ago, fivestar said: 10 hours ago, P_Wop said: Gem was so called because she was so slow anyone could catch it. Unkind, I know... Who was the designer? there were many gems, with many designers this particular one is a kaufman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SF Woody Sailor 310 #2074 Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, hermetic said: there were many gems, with many designers this particular one is a kaufman That brings up an interesting point about the cost of campaigning back in the day. I know this has been endlessly litigated on the SA forums so I ask forgiveness for bringing it up again. In the Bay Area we had a dentist named Dr. Irv Loube. Not a plutocrat or CEO of a major corporation just a prosperous dentist. He campaigned a series of yachts named Bravura that, by SF standards, were pretty grand prix. For example the Frers 46 did the SORC with a crew that was some of the finest we had to offer. Chris Corlett, Bob Billingham, Eric Baumhoff, etc. I think he also had a pretty hot shit two tonner with Scotty Easom as the rigger (even then Scott had a very generous amount of self regard). Anyway, these days I don't see how a prosperous dentist would have the $$$ to campaign a series of grand prix boats. Either the income hasn't held up or the costs have spiraled out of proportion or some combination thereof. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hermetic 300 #2075 Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, SF Woody Sailor said: 2 hours ago, hermetic said: there were many gems, with many designers this particular one is a kaufman That brings up an interesting point about the cost of campaigning back in the day. I know this has been endlessly litigated on the SA forums so I ask forgiveness for bringing it up again. In the Bay Area we had a dentist named Dr. Irv Loube. Not a plutocrat or CEO of a major corporation just a prosperous dentist. He campaigned a series of yachts named Bravura that, by SF standards, were pretty grand prix. For example the Frers 46 did the SORC with a crew that was some of the finest we had to offer. Chris Corlett, Bob Billingham, Eric Baumhoff, etc. I think he also had a pretty hot shit two tonner with Scotty Easom as the rigger (even then Scott had a very generous amount of self regard). Anyway, these days I don't see how a prosperous dentist would have the $$$ to campaign a series of grand prix boats. Either the income hasn't held up or the costs have spiraled out of proportion or some combination thereof. labor used to be cheap, they used to help prep and deliver the boats, eat peanut butter + jelly, and sleep on the boat or in cheap hotels at 4 to a room. biggest expense for them was booze + additives. plenty of rich (potential) owners around, but the logistics suck the fun out of it pretty quick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuso007 525 #2076 Posted November 3, 2020 This just popped up on my Youtube recommendations: "A short 12 minute 'glimpse' of the 3 1/2 years we spent restoring the former Whitbread Maxi 'Creighton's Naturally' also known as 'FCF Challenger' and 'Ocean Greyhound'. " Pretty cool project... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ignatius J. Reilly 19 #2077 Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, SF Woody Sailor said: That brings up an interesting point about the cost of campaigning back in the day. I know this has been endlessly litigated on the SA forums so I ask forgiveness for bringing it up again. In the Bay Area we had a dentist named Dr. Irv Loube. Not a plutocrat or CEO of a major corporation just a prosperous dentist. He campaigned a series of yachts named Bravura that, by SF standards, were pretty grand prix. For example the Frers 46 did the SORC with a crew that was some of the finest we had to offer. Chris Corlett, Bob Billingham, Eric Baumhoff, etc. I think he also had a pretty hot shit two tonner with Scotty Easom as the rigger (even then Scott had a very generous amount of self regard). Anyway, these days I don't see how a prosperous dentist would have the $$$ to campaign a series of grand prix boats. Either the income hasn't held up or the costs have spiraled out of proportion or some combination thereof. Thanks for the good laugh this morning. Thinking of Irv looking in people's mouth is a great visual. Actually Irv was a prominent Oakland Lawyer. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SF Woody Sailor 310 #2078 Posted November 3, 2020 15 minutes ago, Ignatius J. Reilly said: Thanks for the good laugh this morning. Thinking of Irv looking in people's mouth is a great visual. Actually Irv was a prominent Oakland Lawyer. For fuck’s sake how did I get that wrong. I really must stop posting before coffee. I wonder who I was thinking of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ignatius J. Reilly 19 #2079 Posted November 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said: For fuck’s sake how did I get that wrong. I really must stop posting before coffee. I wonder who I was thinking of. No worries. There were plenty of owners in those days that when you sailed with them you felt like you were getting a root canal! Regarding the Frers 46, she was a great boat. Here is a shot from the trip to Florida (SORC) you referenced .... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sledracr 552 #2080 Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, hermetic said: labor used to be cheap, they used to help prep and deliver the boats, eat peanut butter + jelly, and sleep on the boat or in cheap hotels at 4 to a room. Plus the tax loopholes were legend. I raced with a guy who owned a business making small plastic injection-molded parts. When asked if that was good business, he'd smile and say "I make a fraction of a penny on every piece, but I make a million pieces a day..." On one Cabo race, once we'd cleared in he grabbed up a handful of small plastic dental picks and some business cards and headed into town. Dropped a "sample" and a business card at each dentist office within walking distance.... and then declared that the whole trip (race, hotel, meals, airfare down for the delivery crew, airfare back for the race crew, etc) was now a "business trip". Wrote pretty much the whole thing off on his business taxes. And then when the boat was no longer competitive, donated it to the local college sailing program for what he claimed was its "market value", wrote *that* off on his personal taxes... which jump-started the next build. Ah, the good old days... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Former MDR Vandal 1 34 #2081 Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Ignatius J. Reilly said: No worries. There were plenty of owners in those days that when you sailed with them you felt like you were getting a root canal! Regarding the Frers 46, she was a great boat. Here is a shot from the trip to Florida (SORC) you referenced .... The Bravura Two Tonner ended up in MDR. She was built at Cookson in 1991. I understand from the excellent RB sailing website that she was a sistership of Wings of Oracle. https://rbsailing.blogspot.com/2017/05/wings-of-oracle-farr-two-tonner.html I was told by extremely reliable sources she was built alongside Cookson’s High Five, an early, extremely successful IMS 40 footer. I am not 100% certain, but I think the timeline after Irv’s ownership was something like this … the boat was donated to UC, Berkeley. From there she was down in San Diego. I think she was owned by Dennis Pennell and was Boat of the Year. Subsequently she was sold to Marina del Rey. Somewhere along the line she was converted from a tiller to a wheel. She does Wednesday Nights and an occasional weekend race. Here is a picture of her starting the last race of the 2019 Cal Race Week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SF Woody Sailor 310 #2082 Posted November 3, 2020 23 minutes ago, Former MDR Vandal 1 said: The Bravura Two Tonner ended up in MDR. She was built at Cookson in 1991. I understand from the excellent RB sailing website that she was a sistership of Wings of Oracle. https://rbsailing.blogspot.com/2017/05/wings-of-oracle-farr-two-tonner.html I was told by extremely reliable sources she was built alongside Cookson’s High Five, an early, extremely successful IMS 40 footer. I am not 100% certain, but I think the timeline after Irv’s ownership was something like this … the boat was donated to UC, Berkley. From there she was down in San Diego. I think she was owned by Dennis Pennell and was Boat of the Year. Subsequently she was sold to Marina del Rey. Somewhere along the line she was converted from a tiller to a wheel. She does Wednesday Nights and an occasional weekend race. Here is a picture of her starting the last race of the 2019 Cal Race Week. I remember Cookson's High Five pretty well. I think she was at the '94 Big Boat Series at the same time as Gaucho. My recollection is we were in the same division on Twin Flyer. Camouflage (Peterson 44?) was in that one too. One of the Bravura's (maybe the Frers 46?) was donated to Cal and became Golden Bear and was docked forever across from GGYC in the SF Harbor. I did some ocean racing aboard her, and I think that was the first time I spun coffee grinders which made no sense as I was about 130 pounds at the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Former MDR Vandal 1 34 #2083 Posted November 3, 2020 13 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said: I remember Cookson's High Five pretty well. I think she was at the '94 Big Boat Series at the same time as Gaucho. My recollection is we were in the same division on Twin Flyer. Camouflage was in that one too. One of the Bravura's (maybe the Frers 46?) was donated to Cal and became Golden Bear and was docked forever across from GGYC in the SF Harbor. I did some ocean racing aboard her, and I think that was the first time I spun coffee grinders which made no sense as I was about 130 pounds at the time. I think you may need a second cup of coffee … 38 Twin Flyer was in the highest rating PHRF Class along with Petard, Sweek Okole, Perestroika and Expeditious (the 34, not the 37). National Biscuit may have also been in that class. Don’t remember Camouflage at the ’94 Series, but if they were, doubt that they would have been put in the same class as Gaucho and High Five. Gaucho is for sale right now. She’s somewhere on Yachtworld looking pretty sorry. High Five ended up in North or South Carolina as Sister Golden Hair. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
P_Wop 1,730 #2084 Posted November 3, 2020 42 minutes ago, Former MDR Vandal 1 said: The Bravura Two Tonner ended up in MDR. She was built at Cookson in 1991. I understand from the excellent RB sailing website that she was a sistership of Wings of Oracle. https://rbsailing.blogspot.com/2017/05/wings-of-oracle-farr-two-tonner.html I was told by extremely reliable sources she was built alongside Cookson’s High Five, an early, extremely successful IMS 40 footer. An interesting nugget from the 1991 Wings of Oracle campaign. She was completely funded by Oracle UK, and was launched and racing before Larry found out about it. He threw a fit and demanded that the boat was to be sailed no more. A royal battle ensued, and eventually the CEO of Oracle UK (Geoff ???) convinced Larry it was a good deal. And the first page in a peculiar history was then writ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeO 108 #2085 Posted November 3, 2020 15 minutes ago, Former MDR Vandal 1 said: High Five ended up in North or South Carolina as Sister Golden Hair. Pete Conrad's (Mr. Sobstadt) boat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SF Woody Sailor 310 #2086 Posted November 3, 2020 31 minutes ago, Former MDR Vandal 1 said: I think you may need a second cup of coffee … 38 Twin Flyer was in the highest rating PHRF Class along with Petard, Sweek Okole, Perestroika and Expeditious (the 34, not the 37). National Biscuit may have also been in that class. Don’t remember Camouflage at the ’94 Series, but if they were, doubt that they would have been put in the same class as Gaucho and High Five. Gaucho is for sale right now. She’s somewhere on Yachtworld looking pretty sorry. High Five ended up in North or South Carolina as Sister Golden Hair. Combination of bad memory and bad typing. I should have said course not class. I sailed on Twin Flyer on the practice days leading up to BBS and on Thursday and Friday. On Saturday morning the designer wanted to sail so I got booted off to make weight and took a ride as mid-bow on Camouflage instead. That was fortunate (for me) as Saturday the racks broke and Larry Klein passed away. My parents were watching from the race deck and scared as hell since they thought I was on Twin Flyer. Anyway, I remember Gaucho well because at one point on Friday we rounded a leeward mark right behind them. Twin Flyer was a heavily modified Hobie 33 with a stern scoop (to get to 38), a huge rig, hiking racks and fore and aft twin rudders. She was a development trial for the IACC boats. We proceeded to put both rudders in climb mode and sailed from directly astern above and past Gaucho which was ridiculous as she was a much bigger boat. Twin Flyer was difficult to control but an upwind machine when we finally got her dialed in. Starting the next year (95) I sailed on Expeditious (first the 34 then the 37) for the next 22 years, give or take. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tizak 34 #2087 Posted November 3, 2020 15 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said: as Saturday the racks broke and Larry Klein passed away. Was there on Alchemy (Andrews 68). We were coming into St. Fancy after racing and saw fire truck and ambulance in the lot as well as a gurney w/ payload being wheeled away from our dock space. Pretty shocking when we heard the tale - several on board knew Larry. Sad day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites