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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
K9u20

Older well known IOR Boats

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For 87 there are colour pics of most boats, so ask if you want aboat I haven't shown, just don't expect instant miracles! For 83 and 85 there are pretty cruddy B&W pics of most boats. In those issues there are also some Half Ton and multihull stuff, along with all the other usual gubbins.

 

Thanks cms, great photos. Back when the classifieds were just as interesting as the articles!

Appreciate any of the Kiwi 1987 AC team - Propaganda, Kiwi, Goldcorp, and if any decent B&W ones of Shockwave and Swuzzlebubble IV from 1983 and Exador, Epic and Canterbury from 85.

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Would anyone have articles or pics from any of the mini ton events back in the 80s or 90s? I bought a late mini ton last year & interested to find out about the earlier boats & events

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What went wrong with I.O.R rule? From a design and measurements point of views.

Stability.

Freeboards measurements.

There was simply no interest to deal with.

Further, a 10% arbitrary penalty on U.L.D.B closed all progress. We started to have good boats and fun at 25 knots. That scared the hell of the IOR pontifs.

www.tantonyachtdesign.blogspot.com

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1983 Admirals' Cup Part 1. If you didn't already know, I was the race boat broker at Berthon back then.

Who is the guy standing up on the cover photo, and what is he now? How did he get there from here?

post-4387-0-43344700-1360514791_thumb.jpg

The answer to your riddle: Ian "Fresh" Burns - BN (with ClayBoy) for the PNG AC team that summer of 83 (until I took over to pack the boats up and ship them back home), then he went on to finer things, including offshore navigating, yacht designing (with Murray & Dovell...) and now design manager for the Oracle AC circus.

 

Wasn't there a young Mark Richards who sailed as bowman on Di-Hard also?

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[ five scans ]

I would pay money for you to rescan those with a better screen.

Those pictures are absolute gold but the moiré ruins them.

Give me your email address and it's not a problem. One can only upload 1mb on this site and being a lazy bum I did not feel like doing three separate posts.

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@ DUBLIN-13

Here is a MiniTon Cup report from the July/August 1977 issue of Seahorse.

 

Funny that I did not remember "L'Effraie" not winning it in the end ;)

 

"Jaunac " was a typical early Berret design

What a year from Berret in '77, with "Jaunac" winning the Mini-Ton, "Beret de Paulette" 2nd in the 1/4 ton and "Oesophage Boogie" dominating the 3/4 ton just to loose on a navigation mistake.

Berret, an interior designer and furniture-maker had just appeared, from nowhere, in '75 with a home built 1/4 ton "Beneze"

He was only to set shop as a yacht-designer in '78 !

 

This thread led me to unearth a few mags and I read the other day a Berret interview, where the "informed" journalist was pointing out that he felt Berret was refining the "prismatic coefficient" .

"I know it exists but do not know what this is" was Berret's answer, " I am just refining the lines to please my eye and feeling at the helm, then tweaking to the rule"

Happy days !

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Passion! I remember being on Loujaine when we T-boned Passion on a mark rounding. High-tec (for the time) lay up v. aluminum from The Royal Huisman Shipyard. The only thing that stopped us going all the way through were the genoa tracks...

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Love this old Admiral's Cup stuff!

 

Say... which boat was the first to use the "German" mainsheet system? It was right around this time. For some reason the name "Pinta" sticks in my mind but it could certainly been either of these two beauties:

 

i-punkt.jpg

 

container.jpg

Dussel Boot had one in the '81 Admiral's Cup.

 

post-420-0-78452300-1360591876_thumb.jpg

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Responding to requests .... here are NZ boats 83 / 85 and Goldcorp from 87 as you have the other 2 already.

post-4387-0-76827000-1360598039_thumb.jpg

post-4387-0-70790400-1360598049_thumb.jpg

post-4387-0-44257400-1360598059_thumb.jpg

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[ five scans ]

I would pay money for you to rescan those with a better screen.

Those pictures are absolute gold but the moiré ruins them.

 

I have most of the magazines from then, how can one scan them properly?

post-9637-0-69973300-1360598262_thumb.jpg

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And the USA team from 85 showing High Roller as requested. Crappy pics, but Jason did an amazing job back in those days rounding up pics, statistics, crew lists etc. No one has outed him as one of the "tarts" in my first post yesterday!

post-4387-0-32179000-1360598283_thumb.jpg

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When did open transoms come into fashion? alot of the boats up to the mid 80s seem to be close. Were they closed for better ratings or they couldnt engineer the boats to have open transoms at the time? I always think the boats with closed transoms looked very cramped in the cockpits

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[ five scans ]

I would pay money for you to rescan those with a better screen.

Those pictures are absolute gold but the moiré ruins them.

 

I have most of the magazines from then, how can one scan them properly?

 

 

Try to get them scanned and create a public Photobucket account to share them.

You can then just paste the img tag into any post here.

Looking forward to more IOR porn!!

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Open transoms reminds me of why Marie-Christine Amiot (Patrice Ratzel was husband #4 during her sporting period) decided not to buy Evergreen when she saw a photo of the transom and told me to break off negociations because Patrice could fall out the back ....

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When did open transoms come into fashion? alot of the boats up to the mid 80s seem to be close. Were they closed for better ratings or they couldnt engineer the boats to have open transoms at the time? I always think the boats with closed transoms looked very cramped in the cockpits

 

As most new (then) things, they slowly climbed their way-up from the smallest classes from mid seventies to mid-eighties. At least that was my feeling.

I guess the most money the owner has, the more time he needs to adapt to changes ;) M.be something to do with money coming with age.

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[ five scans ]

I would pay money for you to rescan those with a better screen.

Those pictures are absolute gold but the moiré ruins them.

 

I have most of the magazines from then, how can one scan them properly?

What is your earliest issue of Seahorse magazine? Do you have any from 1974?

thanks - 5*

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I think Police Car had the "German" mainsheet system in '79.

 

Great to see the '78 Seahorse stuff - my collection starts at '79 and has most of them for a few years, but I don't think the scanner is working. I stopped buying it when it stopped being about boats that most of us could sail on and against.

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How about scans of that Powerhouse Team of 1983 - Papua New Guinea

Here it is, plus 1985. A friend of mine sailed on HitchHiker II in the 1985 event.

post-52142-0-50451500-1360623053_thumb.jpg

post-52142-0-95422400-1360623182_thumb.jpg

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Great thread. Maybe it's my age but I love old IOR boats. I thought it was a fun rule to work with as a designer. Sure it had some flaws but it did give us some fabulous racing.

 

I agree Bob, kinda makes one wonder how we got so far from the popularity of the sport as it was in 1983 - was it the "Invest or Retire" development of the boats, the death-rolling nightmares with great ratings or just a demographic shift away from ocean-racing ?

 

Probably impossible to say why definitively, but there was a time when the One-Tonners, two-tonners, 40-raters, pocket maxis and Maxi-boats were looking set to be the permanent foundation of the sport and then....zippo in about 3 years - with the death of the Admiral's Cup being the most telling casualty - many blamed IMS, but that hardly seemed true.

 

Too bad, but I can't really blame anyone for NOT wanting some of those boats - glorious in our memories they may have been but I steered "MoonShadow" - the near-Imp sistership and while impressive upwind that thing was a menance to navigation downhill in some pressure.

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Great thread. Maybe it's my age but I love old IOR boats. I thought it was a fun rule to work with as a designer. Sure it had some flaws but it did give us some fabulous racing.

 

I agree Bob, kinda makes one wonder how we got so far from the popularity of the sport as it was in 1983 - was it the "Invest or Retire" development of the boats, the death-rolling nightmares with great ratings or just a demographic shift away from ocean-racing ?

 

Probably impossible to say why definitively, but there was a time when the One-Tonners, two-tonners, 40-raters, pocket maxis and Maxi-boats were looking set to be the permanent foundation of the sport and then....zippo in about 3 years - with the death of the Admiral's Cup being the most telling casualty - many blamed IMS, but that hardly seemed true.

 

Too bad, but I can't really blame anyone for NOT wanting some of those boats - glorious in our memories they may have been but I steered "MoonShadow" - the near-Imp sistership and while impressive upwind that thing was a menance to navigation downhill in some pressure.

 

While all of the factors you cite were part of the demise of the IOR, and of offshore sailing in general, one other major factor was how uncomfortable the boats became. If you were being paid to sail, then you didn't care what it was like down below, didn't care if you didn't eat decent food, lived in virtual squalor. With decreasing human creature comforts, fewer and fewer women sailed, so it became too often a dick measuring contest for the people taking money from the owner. Pretty soon owners figured out the guys they were told they had to pay to sail with them were not the kind of people they necessarily considered friends, and so they bailed from the sport.

 

Fundamentally, most (not all) of the industry basically ate their food source.

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[ five scans ]

I would pay money for you to rescan those with a better screen.

Those pictures are absolute gold but the moiré ruins them.

 

I have most of the magazines from then, how can one scan them properly?

 

 

Try to get them scanned and create a public Photobucket account to share them.

You can then just paste the img tag into any post here.

Looking forward to more IOR porn!!

 

Problem is when I scan on high res the quality is still not good with all small pickles or sort of wich are in the magazine

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And the USA team from 85 showing High Roller as requested. Crappy pics, but Jason did an amazing job back in those days rounding up pics, statistics, crew lists etc. No one has outed him as one of the "tarts" in my first post yesterday!

 

That was my rider for that AC - great boat was the Roller! And Weisman/Nelson and all were great to sail with...

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Richard - many thanks for posting that review, Andy Stewart was always very good at providing a design insight with his writing and the comments from Laurie are very interesting.

 

Interesting consensus (including from Ron himself) that that years generation of Holland boats were too distorted, also that The Goodies which was a departure from Jones didn't shine compared to the well set up fractional Hustler 32s. (anyone know what happened to The Goodies? does it survive somewhere?).

 

Knowing that Waverider would go on and win in Holland in 79 I think demonstrates just how good she was/is despite the rule changes. I have the report of the 79 HTC at home & will try & sort some sub 1mb scans.

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OK, I give in! Miserable grey day here in St Malo, so I have dug out some stuff and scanned lots of photos. Acknowledgements, apologies, credits to anyone who wants them. Mostly shamelessly scanned from the Admirals' Cup preview issues of Seahorse 1983, 85 & 87. I will split them up through following posts. A couple of teasers, Ondine, since she was topical recently, and 3 tarts who need to front up.

post-4387-0-30524500-1360514686_thumb.jpg

post-4387-0-48629500-1360514701_thumb.jpg

 

That looks like Russel long driving with the young crew of misfits he put together for the 86 SORC. If that's right, I'm trimming the frontsail.

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OK, I give in! Miserable grey day here in St Malo, so I have dug out some stuff and scanned lots of photos. Acknowledgements, apologies, credits to anyone who wants them. Mostly shamelessly scanned from the Admirals' Cup preview issues of Seahorse 1983, 85 & 87. I will split them up through following posts. A couple of teasers, Ondine, since she was topical recently, and 3 tarts who need to front up.

post-4387-0-30524500-1360514686_thumb.jpg

post-4387-0-48629500-1360514701_thumb.jpg

 

That looks like Russel long driving with the young crew of misfits he put together for the 86 SORC. If that's right, I'm trimming the frontsail.

Russell indeed. And Huey standing in the hatch. "Russell, you're sailing too low!" "Shut up, Dad." "Russell, you're sailing too high!" "Shut up, Dad."

 

Looks like the Med though - perhaps St Tropez. If so, I was the other jib tailer.

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I think you're right. IIRC we sailed the SORC with the radar post in the whole time. Kept Huey busy below watching the display.

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Very interesting stuff with great reports on boats etc. Maybe that is the reason Seahorse in not doing so well nowadays.

Although still reading it I get the feeling it is a lot more of the same.

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I think you're right. IIRC we sailed the SORC with the radar post in the whole time. Kept Huey busy below watching the display.

Ha! Good one. The other tactic was telling him when he popped his head out that the breeze has dropped 2 knots and backed 7 degrees, so what does that do to our next leg sail selection? "Good thinking. I'll go below and work it out." Gone for 15 minutes....

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Great thread. Maybe it's my age but I love old IOR boats. I thought it was a fun rule to work with as a designer. Sure it had some flaws but it did give us some fabulous racing.

 

I agree Bob, kinda makes one wonder how we got so far from the popularity of the sport as it was in 1983 - was it the "Invest or Retire" development of the boats, the death-rolling nightmares with great ratings or just a demographic shift away from ocean-racing ?

 

Probably impossible to say why definitively, but there was a time when the One-Tonners, two-tonners, 40-raters, pocket maxis and Maxi-boats were looking set to be the permanent foundation of the sport and then....zippo in about 3 years - with the death of the Admiral's Cup being the most telling casualty - many blamed IMS, but that hardly seemed true.

 

Too bad, but I can't really blame anyone for NOT wanting some of those boats - glorious in our memories they may have been but I steered "MoonShadow" - the near-Imp sistership and while impressive upwind that thing was a menance to navigation downhill in some pressure.

 

Most people today look at broaching as the sailing equivalent to the walk of shame. The IOR days on a tight reach was a broachfest with one boat after another rounding up. Throw in DDW in a breeze and boat watching offered serious entertainment.

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Wow, do these photos bring back memories (or not). As Robin Williams said sort of if you can remember sailing in the heyday of IOR you weren't there. Sailed many of these races and what a great time!!!!!! Thanks everyone for helping clear the fog with your posts.

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Here's a question for someone to answer, what was the last new boat built to IOR?

 

The ones I can think of are the 1992 Whitbread maxis New Zealand Endeavour, Merit and La Poste for the 1993 race. But there were probably some later European designs at the smaller level rating events like the Quarter Ton Cup (had its last outing in IOR guise in 1996).

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Last official IOR Half Ton Cup was held in Bayona (Spain) in 1993, with only 10 participating halftonners.

Per Eilisa (built in 1992) sailed as 'Sail Line' and finished 3rd overall, behind winner Atalanti 2 (a Joubert designed in 1982) and Banco Atlantico (an Andrieu 1988).

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Was there not a Quarter tonner built in Spain(?) for the last hurrah in '95? Maybe a Gonzales design?

Shoot me if I'm wrong.

 

Great to see the amount of old boat porn that is suddenly being banded around, and us old gits saying that modern boats just don't cut it for looks or style. keep up the good work gentlemen and find "The Goodies" - any chance of a picture?

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What about a production boat being the last ior? There was a crowd called Polaris in Estonia doing qts in the 90s but surely someone like benateau was still pumping out tonners by the mid 90s

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Hey cms.... GREAT POSTS!!!

 

Any chance you have the French entries as well (83/85)?

 

See cms' post # 310 ;)

 

Was looking for more in addition to the 83 stuff. (85?) But thanks for pointing me back - I did miss it! :)

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Great thread. Maybe it's my age but I love old IOR boats. I thought it was a fun rule to work with as a designer. Sure it had some flaws but it did give us some fabulous racing.

 

I agree Bob, kinda makes one wonder how we got so far from the popularity of the sport as it was in 1983 - was it the "Invest or Retire" development of the boats, the death-rolling nightmares with great ratings or just a demographic shift away from ocean-racing ?

 

Probably impossible to say why definitively, but there was a time when the One-Tonners, two-tonners, 40-raters, pocket maxis and Maxi-boats were looking set to be the permanent foundation of the sport and then....zippo in about 3 years - with the death of the Admiral's Cup being the most telling casualty - many blamed IMS, but that hardly seemed true.

 

Too bad, but I can't really blame anyone for NOT wanting some of those boats - glorious in our memories they may have been but I steered "MoonShadow" - the near-Imp sistership and while impressive upwind that thing was a menance to navigation downhill in some pressure.

 

While all of the factors you cite were part of the demise of the IOR, and of offshore sailing in general, one other major factor was how uncomfortable the boats became. If you were being paid to sail, then you didn't care what it was like down below, didn't care if you didn't eat decent food, lived in virtual squalor. With decreasing human creature comforts, fewer and fewer women sailed, so it became too often a dick measuring contest for the people taking money from the owner. Pretty soon owners figured out the guys they were told they had to pay to sail with them were not the kind of people they necessarily considered friends, and so they bailed from the sport.

 

Fundamentally, most (not all) of the industry basically ate their food source.

 

Totally accurate. The female part is BS but the rest is onside. I quit the game when all I did was watch and write cheques. Paid crew in the '70s was rare on the lakes.....ocean, who knows. We had a bunk interior in an S&S Admiral's Cup boat but we also had a chef and ate well. Longer rudders cut down on holy rollers. A nice roast dinner whilst surfing beside peasants eating peanut butter sandwiches did a lot for morale. Basically it stopped being fun. Racing that is. I still cruise a lovely almost IOR boat that is mostly CCA and I wouldn't trade it for anything of the modern ilk. You see its called sailing. In my opinion floating condos and big fat dinghies do not fit the bill.

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David - quite right. In the 81 Admiral's Cup on the French team with the chartered Holland 51 Midnight Sun we had a full-time chef on the offshores. Tiny bloke, so weight not an issue, but warm canapes at watch change at 0300 were a huge boost. Boeuf bourguignon with 3 veg and a glass of Burgundy going round the Fastnet added hugely to team spirit. Managed to finish second on the water, but slaughtered on handicap. But we did win the Channel Race overall.

 

Loads of fun all round - the only "pro's" were sailmakers and the occasional designer.

 

By 89 it was a totally different game. As naviguesser with the one-tonner on the Italian team I didn't go below at all for 650 miserable miles - did it all hanging off the rail, including SSB radio skeds. Horrible.

 

Then the humorless "experts" started lining up for lunch tickets, and as you say, the owners stopped enjoying it - assuming they were even allowed on the boat in the first place. All over, Rover.

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1979 One Ton North Americans - Pendragon

 

It's amazing the boat was designed in '77 as a 3/4 tonner. Still a sexy looking boat to this day.

 

Thank you for sharing PMello - brings back great memories for me.

 

That she was but, believe it or not, my old Yamaha 33 factory cruiser would climb right over her in a blow. We were racing the Al Adams Cup in '78 (3/4 tonners) at I think ABYC with Bruce Nelson driving and me, a prospective buyer, as part of the SD dealership crew, not knowing my ass but having a great time. DFL after the first triangle in under ten knots and suddenly it starts to freshen on the second beat with white caps and all that shit and then Bruce drove us right over the top of Pendragon. We rounded the next windward mark in first but then wrapped kelp around the keel and were toast. Kelp or no kelp, I was sold and ended up owning her for 11 years. Named her Foxxfyre and sold her to a guy up at Richmond (California) YC who kept the name and was a regular on the podium at single handed events in the bay area.

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[ five scans ]

I would pay money for you to rescan those with a better screen.

Those pictures are absolute gold but the moiré ruins them.

 

I have most of the magazines from then, how can one scan them properly?

Please copy the older ones as a source of historical information for us all. I'm missing all of the seventies!

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I have most of the magazines from then, how can one scan them properly?

 

There is some tedium involved, but once the settings are established they can be written down, then reproduced for the next scanning session.

 

Most scanners can do fairly high resolution so that usually isn't a problem other than the fact that high-res scans eat up disk space.

 

If you Google 'scanning halftone images' there are half a million references. The problem comes when there is a mismatch between the original's halftone screen ruling and the scanner's dpi.

 

This simple "brute force" way to arrive at the scan settings is to make several scans of the same image using different resolutions of the scanner and save each scan with the dpi in the filename so you know which is which. Then examine the scans and see which looks the best.

 

You can also get a "screen finder" to determine the halftone printing screen and make calculations from there.

 

IN GENERAL: the higher resolution you can in, the better the results.

 

 

__________________

 

Also reference: 'removing moire patterns' 'descreening'

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I did the 79 SORC on Sun Bird 5 as the only American aboard. Tom Curnow and his girlfriend Sam who was pregnant at the time were very good friends with my wife and I. Made it a very tough winter.

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The 1979 Admirals Cup Seahorse Magazine cover page, scanned at 150dpi

 

Owen Parker to leeward and (I believe) Larry Marks steering, Ted Heath in his familiar comfy spot !

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Passion! I remember being on Loujaine when we T-boned Passion on a mark rounding. High-tec (for the time) lay up v. aluminum from The Royal Huisman Shipyard. The only thing that stopped us going all the way through were the genoa tracks...

Loujaine... wow thats a name from the past.

 

Wasn't Green Highlander around at about the same time?

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Passion! I remember being on Loujaine when we T-boned Passion on a mark rounding. High-tec (for the time) lay up v. aluminum from The Royal Huisman Shipyard. The only thing that stopped us going all the way through were the genoa tracks...

Loujaine... wow thats a name from the past.

 

Wasn't Green Highlander around at about the same time?

 

Sure was, there were a number of Green Highlander, as there was a number of Loujaine.

G-H's owner was in the textile business and owned a british sailcloth manufacture (Hayward ???)

I remember a small Illingworth, an S&S Admiral's cupper and later a Ron Holland 1-ton.

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I recall the Holland 1 tonner 'Green Highlander' was sailed out of Poole in the early '80s though never raced seriously, can't recall the name of the chap who owned her then, but prior to that he had the early Farr One Tonner 'Karena' for a while.

 

This was a cold moulded boat with a fixed keel, (design 51 maybe?) which I think made the cover of Seahorse at one time; anyone else remember her or the other Farr boats in the UK at the time, or know where she might be now?

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Passion! I remember being on Loujaine when we T-boned Passion on a mark rounding. High-tec (for the time) lay up v. aluminum from The Royal Huisman Shipyard. The only thing that stopped us going all the way through were the genoa tracks...

Loujaine... wow thats a name from the past.

 

Wasn't Green Highlander around at about the same time?

 

Sure was, there were a number of Green Highlander, as there was a number of Loujaine.

G-H's owner was in the textile business and owned a british sailcloth manufacture (Hayward ???)

I remember a small Illingworth, an S&S Admiral's cupper and later a Ron Holland 1-ton.

Not sure what the company was called, but yes he was in the textile business for sure.

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I recall the Holland 1 tonner 'Green Highlander' was sailed out of Poole in the early '80s though never raced seriously, can't recall the name of the chap who owned her then, but prior to that he had the early Farr One Tonner 'Karena' for a while.

 

This was a cold moulded boat with a fixed keel, (design 51 maybe?) which I think made the cover of Seahorse at one time; anyone else remember her or the other Farr boats in the UK at the time, or know where she might be now?

Don't think any of the GH's was ever a Farr boat, saw the one tonner years ago, owned by a Dutchman then who was doing a summer cruise along the South coast of the UK.

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I recall the Holland 1 tonner 'Green Highlander' was sailed out of Poole in the early '80s though never raced seriously, can't recall the name of the chap who owned her then, but prior to that he had the early Farr One Tonner 'Karena' for a while.

 

This was a cold moulded boat with a fixed keel, (design 51 maybe?) which I think made the cover of Seahorse at one time; anyone else remember her or the other Farr boats in the UK at the time, or know where she might be now?

 

Yes Karena was a, beautiful if not successful, cold-moulded Farr one-ton originally hailing from Jersey, and yes I think she was on one SeaHorse cover .

As I remember it (but that was a long time ago) she was one of two UK Farr one-tons in '76.

The other one was Solent Saracen owned and built by John Mac Carthy, which actually entered the Marseilles One ton Cup, she was following a 3/4 tonner winner of the '75 3/4 ton-cup (Peterson) and, earlier, a close sister-ship to Gumboots entered in the '74 One Ton Cup (which was sold to France and later sank, I think).

IIRW she was followed by a Farr centreboarder (later modified to fixed keel) for the '78 one-ton.

2-3 and 4 were C-flex built by the owner's company.

Otherwise I do not remember that many UK Farr boats, bar a few half-tons, in the 70's

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Thanks for that - I can remember 'a' Solent Saracen Farr 1 Tonner, probably the '78 boat as it would have been late '70s in Lymington.

 

The other names I can just about recall are 'Speculator' & 'Prospect of Puffin'. I'd thought these were Farr boats but it was a very long time ago, they may be the same boat with a name change, I'm not 100% certain of them but have a memory of them doing Cowes Week late '70s early '80s and that one or other may have been based in the N West & raced in the Irish Sea (ISORA)

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Thanks for that - I can remember 'a' Solent Saracen Farr 1 Tonner, probably the '78 boat as it would have been late '70s in Lymington.

 

The other names I can just about recall are 'Speculator' & 'Prospect of Puffin'. I'd thought these were Farr boats but it was a very long time ago, they may be the same boat with a name change, I'm not 100% certain of them but have a memory of them doing Cowes Week late '70s early '80s and that one or other may have been based in the N West & raced in the Irish Sea (ISORA)

 

While "Speculator" does not ring and immediate bell, Prospect of Puffin certainly does, she raced the '77 Fastnet in Class 3 but so did a Saracen.

I think that the first Saracen-Farr was sold to the NW.

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Thanks for that - I can remember 'a' Solent Saracen Farr 1 Tonner, probably the '78 boat as it would have been late '70s in Lymington.

 

The other names I can just about recall are 'Speculator' & 'Prospect of Puffin'. I'd thought these were Farr boats but it was a very long time ago, they may be the same boat with a name change, I'm not 100% certain of them but have a memory of them doing Cowes Week late '70s early '80s and that one or other may have been based in the N West & raced in the Irish Sea (ISORA)

 

While "Speculator" does not ring and immediate bell, Prospect of Puffin certainly does, she raced the '77 Fastnet in Class 3 but so did a Saracen.

I think that the first Saracen-Farr was sold to the NW.

 

An afterthought make me think that a sister-boat might well have been built alongside Saracen 1st Farr 1-ton, could that be Speculator ?

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That might be Speculator, all a long time ago, a few old copies of Seahorse or Y&Y from that era would be handy. Maybe (total speculation!) 'Puffin' was the sister if they were both around in '77 with the earlier Saracen then becoming Speculator?

 

Do you suppose the rating office in Lymington kept any records or have an archive of the UK IOR fleet or the clubs like the Royal Thames that organised the level rating events have records?

 

I also have a vague recollection that there was a production Farr 1 Tonner knocking around but don't have a name or builder.

 

This one perhaps.....

 

http://www.boatshed....boat-35675.html

 

Bizarre complex deck moulding, image 37 suggests she was in the Solent on the '90s

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That might be Speculator, all a long time ago, a few old copies of Seahorse or Y&Y from that era would be handy. Maybe (total speculation!) 'Puffin' was the sister if they were both around in '77 with the earlier Saracen then becoming Speculator?

 

Do you suppose the rating office in Lymington kept any records or have an archive of the UK IOR fleet or the clubs like the Royal Thames that organised the level rating events have records?

 

I also have a vague recollection that there was a production Farr 1 Tonner knocking around but don't have a name or builder.

try sending Jenbee a PM, if anybody will know, she will.

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That might be Speculator, all a long time ago, a few old copies of Seahorse or Y&Y from that era would be handy. Maybe (total speculation!) 'Puffin' was the sister if they were both around in '77 with the earlier Saracen then becoming Speculator?

 

Do you suppose the rating office in Lymington kept any records or have an archive of the UK IOR fleet or the clubs like the Royal Thames that organised the level rating events have records?

 

I also have a vague recollection that there was a production Farr 1 Tonner knocking around but don't have a name or builder.

 

This one perhaps.....

 

http://www.boatshed....boat-35675.html

 

Bizarre complex deck moulding, image 37 suggests she was in the Solent on the '90s

 

"a few old copies of Seahorse or Y&Y from that era would be handy"

 

Jeebus ! is turning the attic upside down the good plan for next week-end ? I'll see but I guess it is the only solution to those questions.

 

"I also have a vague recollection that there was a production Farr 1 Tonner"

 

That also rings a bell, and that one with the deck-moulding looks like it.

BJ Ham & Son might well be the builder which also bought "Joe Louis" to series build it, just to find that the rule changes had killed her.

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That might be Speculator, all a long time ago, a few old copies of Seahorse or Y&Y from that era would be handy. Maybe (total speculation!) 'Puffin' was the sister if they were both around in '77 with the earlier Saracen then becoming Speculator?

 

Do you suppose the rating office in Lymington kept any records or have an archive of the UK IOR fleet or the clubs like the Royal Thames that organised the level rating events have records?

 

I also have a vague recollection that there was a production Farr 1 Tonner knocking around but don't have a name or builder.

 

This one perhaps.....

 

http://www.boatshed....boat-35675.html

 

Bizarre complex deck moulding, image 37 suggests she was in the Solent on the '90s

 

"a few old copies of Seahorse or Y&Y from that era would be handy"

 

Jeebus ! is turning the attic upside down the good plan for next week-end ? I'll see but I guess it is the only solution to those questions.

 

"I also have a vague recollection that there was a production Farr 1 Tonner"

 

That also rings a bell, and that one with the deck-moulding looks like it.

BJ Ham & Son might well be the builder which also bought "Joe Louis" to series build it, just to find that the rule changes had killed her.

 

The plan to turn the attic upside down has certainly got my vote. Let me know if you come across any better shots of the Contessa 39 Eclipse. This is the best I can dig up on the web:

post-33230-0-50006600-1361386105_thumb.jpg

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"I also have a vague recollection that there was a production Farr 1 Tonner"

 

At 36', the boat in the photos will most likely be the Farr 1104. Came out around '76. This is before the One Tonners went to 40'.

 

I've sailed on about 8 of these in the 70's, including '79 Southern Cross Cup inc Hobart race and getting caught in a cyclone in the middle of the Tasman on the way home. Young bloke we picked up in Hobart eventually started what became Southern Spars

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I recall the Holland 1 tonner 'Green Highlander' was sailed out of Poole in the early '80s though never raced seriously, can't recall the name of the chap who owned her then, but prior to that he had the early Farr One Tonner 'Karena' for a while.

 

This was a cold moulded boat with a fixed keel, (design 51 maybe?) which I think made the cover of Seahorse at one time; anyone else remember her or the other Farr boats in the UK at the time, or know where she might be now?

 

Yes Karena was a, beautiful if not successful, cold-moulded Farr one-ton originally hailing from Jersey, and yes I think she was on one SeaHorse cover .

As I remember it (but that was a long time ago) she was one of two UK Farr one-tons in '76.

The other one was Solent Saracen owned and built by John Mac Carthy, which actually entered the Marseilles One ton Cup, she was following a 3/4 tonner winner of the '75 3/4 ton-cup (Peterson) and, earlier, a close sister-ship to Gumboots entered in the '74 One Ton Cup (which was sold to France and later sank, I think).

IIRW she was followed by a Farr centreboarder (later modified to fixed keel) for the '78 one-ton.

2-3 and 4 were C-flex built by the owner's company.

Otherwise I do not remember that many UK Farr boats, bar a few half-tons, in the 70's

Karena was a lovely varnished cold-moulded boat, built by Souter in Cowes for Colin Journaux, as you say, of Jersey. I did a couple of RORC offshores on her that summer (1974???), and Dinard as well, I think. Super fast, and a real head-turner compared with all the masthead mastodons of the day. Skinny single spreader fractional rig with swept spreaders, no hydraulics, no runners and a 64:1 cascade backstay.

 

I think the very first Farr boat in the UK was the half tonner Tohe Candu (either Titus Canby renamed or a different boat), I think in the Summer of 1972. Proceed to clean the clocks of all the Brit half tonners, which were mostly Scampis, Nich 30s and French designs. Just startlingly quick in almost all conditions. And the boat that put Farr on the map, IMHO.

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I quite like this photo from 'The World of Yachting - 1977-78', unfortunately I've had to scan it as two separate images - an English Farr 1104 (perhaps Solent Saracen?) heading downwind around a few heavyweights, with one doing some nice rolling action.

Solent Saracen did the 76 One Ton Cup - not as successful as Jiminy Cricket and 45 South II, but was the 1976 British Yacht of the Year.

post-52234-0-52098800-1361413171_thumb.jpg

post-52234-0-32250700-1361413281_thumb.jpg

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House Salad ! "The plan to turn the attic upside down has certainly got my vote."

I sneaked in last night in view of next week-end, some good finds to finalize then, will look for "Eclipse"

Incidentally I do have a quote and docs for a sistership we had unsuccessfully tried to sell to an owner.

 

I already found that the yacht in the Boatshed ad is the "cruising" version of the '76 Saracen. They introduced it as the "Alpha" series, once the racing version rating had been killed. BJ Ham & sons being a John Mc Carthy company.

 

Richard 4073 ! "(perhaps Solent Saracen?)"

Very well spotted, it clearly has the fancy numbers of "Butler-Verner" sails, but.... what I already dug out shows "Solent Saracen" with # 3698 (not 3699). so that must be the sister-ship we were talking about, with very similar hull-graphics.

 

It also appears that "Jiminy Cricket" was sold to the Solent for the '77 season, so that's an other Farr in the the UK

post-6361-0-27080000-1361438912_thumb.jpg

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I recall the Holland 1 tonner 'Green Highlander' was sailed out of Poole in the early '80s though never raced seriously, can't recall the name of the chap who owned her then, but prior to that he had the early Farr One Tonner 'Karena' for a while.

 

This was a cold moulded boat with a fixed keel, (design 51 maybe?) which I think made the cover of Seahorse at one time; anyone else remember her or the other Farr boats in the UK at the time, or know where she might be now?

 

Yes Karena was a, beautiful if not successful, cold-moulded Farr one-ton originally hailing from Jersey, and yes I think she was on one SeaHorse cover .

As I remember it (but that was a long time ago) she was one of two UK Farr one-tons in '76.

The other one was Solent Saracen owned and built by John Mac Carthy, which actually entered the Marseilles One ton Cup, she was following a 3/4 tonner winner of the '75 3/4 ton-cup (Peterson) and, earlier, a close sister-ship to Gumboots entered in the '74 One Ton Cup (which was sold to France and later sank, I think).

IIRW she was followed by a Farr centreboarder (later modified to fixed keel) for the '78 one-ton.

2-3 and 4 were C-flex built by the owner's company.

Otherwise I do not remember that many UK Farr boats, bar a few half-tons, in the 70's

Karena was a lovely varnished cold-moulded boat, built by Souter in Cowes for Colin Journaux, as you say, of Jersey. I did a couple of RORC offshores on her that summer (1974???), and Dinard as well, I think. Super fast, and a real head-turner compared with all the masthead mastodons of the day. Skinny single spreader fractional rig with swept spreaders, no hydraulics, no runners and a 64:1 cascade backstay.

 

I think the very first Farr boat in the UK was the half tonner Tohe Candu (either Titus Canby renamed or a different boat), I think in the Summer of 1972. Proceed to clean the clocks of all the Brit half tonners, which were mostly Scampis, Nich 30s and French designs. Just startlingly quick in almost all conditions. And the boat that put Farr on the map, IMHO.

 

I have always loved those rigs, sure the "I" was short, but they were to me the perfect cruising rig with easy-handled gennys and no fuss with preventers.

Some of our racing group designed and built a "light brigade" Class IV boat which was (finally) launched in '77.

Despite achieving huge success offshore in that first season, not being in a level rating class prevented her from fame.

To be honest, she suffered in inshore races.

She had a similar rig, but with the shrouds outboard on the hull: a joy to sail and deliver shorthanded.

 

And here is "Karena"

post-6361-0-47583200-1361440186_thumb.jpg

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Thanks for that rummage in the attic - a great plan, you knew you'd been carting round 30+ year old sailing magazines for a reason! & thanks for the scan of Karena - all good stuff.

 

I have a similar Butler-Verner add from the '77 AC edition of Seahorse with Solent Saracen as K 3698 featured, alongside Lancer (Holland 1 Ton?) K 3697 and what I guess is the Peterson 3/4 Ton Solent Saracen.

 

So K 3699 in Richards picture would be the sister which might be Prospect of Puffin if they both did the '77 Fastnet, Speculator could either be the '76 Solent Saracen re-named when the '78 boat was built or possibly Jiminy Cricket. (or another boat entirely!) I'm confident Speculator wasn't the Alpha production boat, my memory is that she had the same classic Farr coachroof as the others.

 

Other boats in Richards picture appear to be White Gold II ? (K 4008 - was on a Beken calendar one year) & possibly a Nicholson 33 (can't make out the sail No. but would be right era)

 

Any pictures or reports you find in the attic would be great - these are the boats I grew up watching & then sailed, the boats that got me headed for the yacht design course at Southampton, they have a lot to answer for!

 

A couple of boats I crewed on regularly were the '76 David Thomas 3/4 tonner, originally 'Liz of Lymington', Peter Websters boat but re-named 'Dizzy Lizzy' when I raced on her, & also a 1/4 tonner named 'Shadow' from 1978 which I believe was David Alan-Williams first design, built for Barry Rideout in Poole.

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Anyone of you south-coasters familiar with K-516 Bluepoint (later Flourishing), built by N. Hutton in 1979-1980, a fractional rigged Oyster 41? She once was on the cover of an edition of 'Wight Hazards'.

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Thanks for that rummage in the attic - a great plan, you knew you'd been carting round 30+ year old sailing magazines for a reason! & thanks for the scan of Karena - all good stuff.

 

I have a similar Butler-Verner add from the '77 AC edition of Seahorse with Solent Saracen as K 3698 featured, alongside Lancer (Holland 1 Ton?) K 3697 and what I guess is the Peterson 3/4 Ton Solent Saracen.

 

So K 3699 in Richards picture would be the sister which might be Prospect of Puffin if they both did the '77 Fastnet, Speculator could either be the '76 Solent Saracen re-named when the '78 boat was built or possibly Jiminy Cricket. (or another boat entirely!) I'm confident Speculator wasn't the Alpha production boat, my memory is that she had the same classic Farr coachroof as the others.

 

Other boats in Richards picture appear to be White Gold II ? (K 4008 - was on a Beken calendar one year) & possibly a Nicholson 33 (can't make out th