K9u20

Older well known IOR Boats

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Here's the Jameson sinking event, but this was from the 93 AC.

 

By the way, can anyone explain the bit showing underneath the transom on Val Maubuee?

 

 

I had a Jamesons on the rocks last night!

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Ref Full Pelt .... if my memory is right, after she won the 87 Fastnet, a Turk ordered a sistership from the Dubois office. After a while, Malcolm and co in the office realised that Jo Richards had changed her all the way from plans, through lofting, to build, and had to go measure her to be able to reproduce her? Hugh??

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Ref Full Pelt .... if my memory is right, after she won the 87 Fastnet, a Turk ordered a sistership from the Dubois office. After a while, Malcolm and co in the office realised that Jo Richards had changed her all the way from plans, through lofting, to build, and had to go measure her to be able to reproduce her? Hugh??

 

Didn't get involved with that one, but I'll see Jo next couple of days and quiz him:) Doesn't suprise me in the least!

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Sort of reminds me of the probably aprocryphal story of Marionette V - later the first Formidable. Built by Joyce Brothers in aluminium, when it came to doing Ron's highly-distorted underwater 'tuck' around the aft girth stations by the rudder, Joyce said essentially that there was absolutely no way that they could do that in aluminium. So they didn't. How it got measured as if they had done it anyway was a bit of a mystery.

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Sort of reminds me of the probably aprocryphal story of Marionette V - later the first Formidable. Built by Joyce Brothers in aluminium, when it came to doing Ron's highly-distorted underwater 'tuck' around the aft girth stations by the rudder, Joyce said essentially that there was absolutely no way that they could do that in aluminium. So they didn't. How it got measured as if they had done it anyway was a bit of a mystery.

You can do it with aluminium : just coating :!

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Re the small 'CONTAINER' above: on of the first boats to seriously integrate all aspects of design/build/outfit to reduce weight/clutter & improve performance. I've long since forgotten the exact numbers, but the boat pictured is the 2nd they built to the same JV design. The first looked like most IOR boats of her size: giant wheel in a trench, lots of winches, hardware every where. For the 2nd boat, all aspects were critiqued by all involved. Wheel/trench changed to tiller, winches reduced to six, minimal deck hardware. Sailmakers were told to recut sails if they did not trim to existing points on deck. Interior - no floorboards at all. The alum frame running from keel/maststep back to engine was changed to fit batteries - made the lead IOR ballast work, they never had to recharge batts during any of the SORC races. Some things might have been to lite - you could not stand on the companionway slider, it was very thin plastic. Many other details like this resulted in the new boat being 1500 lbs (IIRC) lighter than the original. A great group of guys sailing the boat, spent many days hangin with the krauts down at the bunker in Lauderdale. Also the boat responsible for leaving Ralphie in the US.

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Hugh

 

Wasn't that the year when virtually all the one tonners hit the ledge?

 

Thats the one! Couple of the boats lost the wooden ( !) tips to their keels, another one was severely bent, couple of others had bad gravel rash and cracked floors - demolition derby! In mitigation , was one of those misty and poor vis sort of Solent days and way before GPS, so never knew exactly where you were at the best of times.

 

Harry Spencer came out with the airbags next day and got the boat back to the marina and hauled out - later on I found there was stuff all actually holding the keel on... no wonder the sisterships all tapped rocks and had the same result.

 

Both yards in Hamble and Cowes were very busy the rest of the night fixing the damage.

Also the year of the monster T-bone in the 50 foot fleet.

 

The race programme was changed to replace the Third Inshore race, normally the long race, with two twelve-mile windward/leeward races. In the first, Giorgio Carriero's 50ft Mandrake was dicing with Bert Dolk's Pro-motion from the Netherlands. Crossing bows and dipping transoms with inches to spare is meat and drink to the crews of the 50-footers, but this time it went spectacularly wrong. Approaching the weather for the second time and just a hundred yards short of it, Mandrake approached a line of starboard tack traffic, apparently about to slot in behind Britain's Indulgence (Mike Peacock's old Juno V, which was bought by Graham Walker) and Pro-motion, but ahead of France's Corum Saphir.

Mandrake's helmsman, Francesco de Angelis, was perched high on the weather side, waiting for tactician Torben Grael to talk him through the crossing. Grael and Giorgio Carriero could see Pro-motion approaching; the two 50-foot yachts were closing at right angles at a combined speed of about 13 knots. In the time Grael had decided not to tack underneath Pro-motion but to cross her stern, the moment to avoid collision had gone. 'There was a collective black-out,' said Carriero.

The crash was ear shattering. Mandrake speared into Pro-motion, penetrating her starboard side deep enough to dislodge a primary winch. Bouwe Bekking, taking a break from Dennis Conner's Winston Whitbread campaign to steer Pro-motion, dislocated his thumb when it was jarred against the steering wheel, though, mercifully, there were no other injuries.

For a full five minutes the yachts were locked together like rutting stags. When they disengaged, it seemed one, or both, might sink. Pro-motion was holed to below the waterline, but stayed afloat, just, by dint of sailing heeled right over on starboard tack straight into Chichester Harbour. 'We bounced the boat over the sands and went aground three times, twisting the keel, just to get her into the boatyard at Hayling', said Bekking.

 

http://www.admiralsc...istory/110.html

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Sort of reminds me of the probably aprocryphal story of Marionette V - later the first Formidable. Built by Joyce Brothers in aluminium, when it came to doing Ron's highly-distorted underwater 'tuck' around the aft girth stations by the rudder, Joyce said essentially that there was absolutely no way that they could do that in aluminium. So they didn't. How it got measured as if they had done it anyway was a bit of a mystery.

 

Whether the story was "pun-intended" or not, it leads to some illustration of the IOR rule tweaking.

At the 77' AC and trials there were 4 Holland boats of similar length:

3 reputedly coming from the same original design: "Big Apple", "Mandrake" and "Marionette V".

1from a later (late '76 -early '77 design): Morning-Cloud V

 

As seen in the extract for "Seahorse" with explanations, Morning Cloud had a much more distorted stern

 

The enclosed photographs show some distinction between "Marionette".and "Big Apple" both built at Joyce -reputedly at the time because the owner could only get a boat in time by using "Big Apple" lofting - It was also rumoured that the owner's heart would have been to go Peterson, m.be some tweaking of the stern was arranged ??

 

The three also played differently with sail-area and other W/L paremeters, so the question will remain to most: why was "Marionette" obviously better ?

Interestingly though and IIRW, "Morning Cloud" had the distortions partly filled with micro-balloons for the '79 season.

 

Holland must have learned a lot from having these 4 boats competing against each other and knowing all the intricacies.

post-6361-0-38547800-1362328215_thumb.jpg

post-6361-0-94757900-1362328247_thumb.jpg

post-6361-0-82114000-1362328276_thumb.jpg

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The crash was ear shattering. Mandrake speared into Pro-motion, penetrating her starboard side deep enough to dislodge a primary winch. Bouwe Bekking, taking a break from Dennis Conner's Winston Whitbread campaign to steer Pro-motion, dislocated his thumb when it was jarred against the steering wheel, though, mercifully, there were no other injuries.

 

Port-tacker hits starboard-tacker on *starboard* side? Huh.

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Sort of reminds me of the probably aprocryphal story of Marionette V - later the first Formidable. Built by Joyce Brothers in aluminium, when it came to doing Ron's highly-distorted underwater 'tuck' around the aft girth stations by the rudder, Joyce said essentially that there was absolutely no way that they could do that in aluminium. So they didn't. How it got measured as if they had done it anyway was a bit of a mystery.

 

Whether the story was "pun-intended" or not, it leads to some illustration of the IOR rule tweaking.

At the 77' AC and trials there were 4 Holland boats of similar length:

3 reputedly coming from the same original design: "Big Apple", "Mandrake" and "Marionette V".

1from a later (late '76 -early '77 design): Morning-Cloud V

 

As seen in the extract for "Seahorse" with explanations, Morning Cloud had a much more distorted stern

 

The enclosed photographs show some distinction between "Marionette".and "Big Apple" both built at Joyce -reputedly at the time because the owner could only get a boat in time by using "Big Apple" lofting - It was also rumoured that the owner's heart would have been to go Peterson, m.be some tweaking of the stern was arranged ??

 

The three also played differently with sail-area and other W/L paremeters, so the question will remain to most: why was "Marionette" obviously better ?

Interestingly though and IIRW, "Morning Cloud" had the distortions partly filled with micro-balloons for the '79 season.

 

Holland must have learned a lot from having these 4 boats competing against each other and knowing all the intricacies.

A question for Moody, my friend :) and all it may concern :

 

looking for a Berret One Ton from La Rochelle Léon Brillouet COFICA, probably raced OTC 1987 Kiel.... Any photos or pics ?

Just to confirm if it was a Beneteau 40 One Ton or just Berret One off or a modified Fist Class 12 ?

Tx for ure help

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Chorus

 

There were a pair of Jean Berret 1 Tonners built in '87 for the French AC team & OTC, one was Cofica as mentioned above (sponsors of his earlier 1/2 ton winner of '84 & '86) and a second sponsored by Port Du Crouesty in Morbihan. These were new one (two?) off designs not updated Beneteau 1 tons or 12s.

 

I have photographs of them taken at Berthons in Lymington when they were taking part in the French trials, there may also be pictures of Cofica in the Seahorse issues around that time. I'll have a look this evening & scan and post what I have.

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For Chorus - Cofica the '87 Berret One Ton

 

post-73936-0-92908400-1362432949_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-54873600-1362432977_thumb.jpg

 

And a few dockside details....

 

post-73936-0-27475400-1362433031_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-66931700-1362433056_thumb.jpg

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And her sister Port du Crouesty

 

post-73936-0-52344800-1362433189_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-59428700-1362433210_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-11019000-1362433237_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-58452100-1362433258_thumb.jpg

 

With Cofica behind & behind her Espace du Desir

 

post-73936-0-95373400-1362433286_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-28649300-1362433353_thumb.jpg

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For anyone that is keeping track, Scaramouche, built in 1971 an aluminum S&S design out of Palmer Johnson is still happily cruising around the Pacific northwest. Doesn't have the viagra like shape of later IOR boats. Reasonably docile downwind under a cruising rig especially since I had Bob Perry alter the rudder design. Quite a successful boat back in the day (winner Class B '77 Transpac) and many other local races. She is a tremendously strong vessel "built to break ice" and the gear is impressive. Unfortunately I'm too old and too poor to really give her hell in local races but we do see occassional demonstrations of speed.

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For Chorus - Cofica the '87 Berret One Ton

 

post-73936-0-92908400-1362432949_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-54873600-1362432977_thumb.jpg

 

And a few dockside details....

 

post-73936-0-27475400-1362433031_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-66931700-1362433056_thumb.jpg

Great shots !!! Tx a lot Ian, will be able to start an order for a half hull of Cofica !!!

Cheers

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Further Vanguard.

 

Extracts from SeaHorse

Vanguard half Hull from Moody Frog docs....

 

VanguardCopyright.jpg

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just the first of many more pics of a great IOR boat

 

Decca, Bloody hell grandad, that takes me back. Now post some pics of Jade. One of my faves.

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For anyone that is keeping track, Scaramouche, built in 1971 an aluminum S&S design out of Palmer Johnson is still happily cruising around the Pacific northwest. Doesn't have the viagra like shape of later IOR boats. Reasonably docile downwind under a cruising rig especially since I had Bob Perry alter the rudder design. Quite a successful boat back in the day (winner Class B '77 Transpac) and many other local races. She is a tremendously strong vessel "built to break ice" and the gear is impressive. Unfortunately I'm too old and too poor to really give her hell in local races but we do see occassional demonstrations of speed.

 

I think YMT already cleared this up, but the Scaramouche which did Tranpac was not the S&S boat, it was a 40 something designed by none other than YMT. Completely different boats with the same name. I do not think the aluminum boat ever raced on the west coast-and certainly not during the time she was on top of her game (the 70's)

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For anyone that is keeping track, Scaramouche, built in 1971 an aluminum S&S design out of Palmer Johnson is still happily cruising around the Pacific northwest. Doesn't have the viagra like shape of later IOR boats. Reasonably docile downwind under a cruising rig especially since I had Bob Perry alter the rudder design. Quite a successful boat back in the day (winner Class B '77 Transpac) and many other local races. She is a tremendously strong vessel "built to break ice" and the gear is impressive. Unfortunately I'm too old and too poor to really give her hell in local races but we do see occassional demonstrations of speed.

 

I think YMT already cleared this up, but the Scaramouche which did Tranpac was not the S&S boat, it was a 40 something designed by none other than YMT. Completely different boats with the same name. I do not think the aluminum boat ever raced on the west coast-and certainly not during the time she was on top of her game (the 70's)

 

Well I'm sorry but you're wrong. The aluminum Sacaramouche (which I currently own) was raced for many years on the west coast, owned by the Alexander family of Seattle, won the '77 Transpac (first winner ever with a woman skipper, Kate Alexander, I believe). Designed by S&S I have the original drawings on board. There is some interesting speculation about who did the actual drawings and later went on to fame and fortune in his own right. There were a series of Scaramouches so your mistake is understandable. The one I own is sister ship to Bay Beau and Aura.

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Sorry that should have read Aurora in the above post. She recently completed a circumnavigation including a Horn rounding and several months in Antartica. This should put to rest any question about the early IOR boats making suitable cruising boats in their old age. With a length of 50' and a beam of 12' they are very moderate designs and their fame for being squirrelly down wind has as much to do with their tiny rudders (copied from 12 meters of the time ) as it does from their narrow sterns .

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For anyone that is keeping track, Scaramouche, built in 1971 an aluminum S&S design out of Palmer Johnson is still happily cruising around the Pacific northwest. Doesn't have the viagra like shape of later IOR boats. Reasonably docile downwind under a cruising rig especially since I had Bob Perry alter the rudder design. Quite a successful boat back in the day (winner Class B '77 Transpac) and many other local races. She is a tremendously strong vessel "built to break ice" and the gear is impressive. Unfortunately I'm too old and too poor to really give her hell in local races but we do see occassional demonstrations of speed.

 

I think YMT already cleared this up, but the Scaramouche which did Tranpac was not the S&S boat, it was a 40 something designed by none other than YMT. Completely different boats with the same name. I do not think the aluminum boat ever raced on the west coast-and certainly not during the time she was on top of her game (the 70's)

There is some interesting speculation about who did the actual drawings and later went on to fame and fortune in his own right.

 

I am guessing it may have been Frers.

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Further Vanguard.

 

Extracts from SeaHorse

Vanguard half Hull from Moody Frog docs....

 

VanguardCopyright.jpg

 

Caution Chorus ! as Fivestar pointed out these drawings were of a 48' version of Vanguard which was necer built. The actual Vanguard being 42'

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Further Vanguard.

 

Extracts from SeaHorse

Vanguard half Hull from Moody Frog docs....

 

VanguardCopyright.jpg

 

Caution Chorus ! as Fivestar pointed out these drawings were of a 48' version of Vanguard which was necer built. The actual Vanguard being 42'

OK Moody, so i built a 48 feet on my own :)))) Tx for the caution

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Further Vanguard.

 

Extracts from SeaHorse

Vanguard half Hull from Moody Frog docs....

 

VanguardCopyright.jpg

 

Caution Chorus ! as Fivestar pointed out these drawings were of a 48' version of Vanguard which was necer built. The actual Vanguard being 42'

OK Moody, so i built a 48 feet on my own :)))) Tx for the caution

What's 6 feet between friends.

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if it is calculated as per IOR-feet (21.8ft for a 30ft halftonner) then maybe 42 can be 48...

 

tx too for that peacefull and diplomatic answer lol

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if it is calculated as per IOR-feet (21.8ft for a 30ft halftonner) then maybe 42 can be 48...

 

tx too for that peacefull and diplomatic answer lol

 

...except that, if you had a 48-footer that rated 42 under IOR, he's saying you have a dog of extraordinary magnitude. ;-)

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It's a representation of effective sailing length, or waterline length.

As in a 27 foot boat with a waterline of 21' would/could be a candidate for the half ton class.

The bad/worst thing re:IOR and modern boats, was that the light displacement boats had to eat an extreme penalty for their lack of weight.

Most light boats under IOR had a rating that was higher than the boat was long. As in a 50' boat could have an IOR rating of 60.0, or higher.

Was type forming to the extreme. Penalized the modern designs to the point of being non-competitve in a way that was counter to design trends at the time. Some boats found a solution to this by bolting large amounts of lead to the deck!

That is what led to the demise of the IOR...

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It's a representation of effective sailing length, or waterline length.

 

Yes.... my comment was meant to be humor, perhaps I missed. In the heyday of IOR, a 48-footer would typically rate between 35.5 and 36.5, so a 48-footer that rated 42 would be horribly non-competitive.

 

Most light boats under IOR had a rating that was higher than the boat was long. As in a 50' boat could have an IOR rating of 60.0, or higher.

 

 

Any cites to support that? IIRC, the SC-27 rated around 24.0, and the SC-70 rated 70.0 (and was designed to hit that number).

 

I paid a lot of attention to IOR ratings, back in the day, and can't say I've ever seen a boat whose R was 10 feet greater than its OAL. With the sole exception of Merlin, which (at 62 feet overall) had to be tortured to get the rating below 70 after a bunch of rules were changed specifically to address the disruption she represented.

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Love the pics of Jade, still got the Mickey Mouse ear keel

 

Nice collection of Ian Terry Engineering titanium bits on that boat....

 

Interesting fact, all the titanium tubes were off-cuts from the cooling systems of nuclear power stations (1" OD, grade 2, welded) would have cost a lot more if we had to buy 'new'. Came in about 5' lengths, we used to roll swage each end, then cut in half and weld the bases on. Each base was custom made for the deck radius and angle, so that the stanchion always angled out at its 'correct' angle, WIIRC was 10 deg.

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Ian Terry did a proposal for many of our bits for the Hugh Welbourn ULDB we we cooking for the 89/90 WRTWR. Sadly cancelled. I did warn him to use a Geiger counter on his materials - just in case they HAD actually been used.

 

Still do my morning quadruple espresso with Mount Gay out of one of his mugs.

 

post-271-0-94107600-1362596566_thumb.jpg

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Wow, haven't seen one of those mugs in a long time, no idea what happened to mine (and the jacket :angry: )

 

I was there in '88, after Chris bought the company from Ian's family, we might have talked!

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In the very first pic of Cofica (post 547 - by IanW) it would appear that they are sailing with both running backs on?!?!

 

One is slightly eased compared to the other.... Can anyone explain this (or why they are doing this) to me....

 

Just wondering if I am missing some kind of old school trimming "trick"....

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Ian Terry did a proposal for many of our bits for the Hugh Welbourn ULDB we we cooking for the 89/90 WRTWR. Sadly cancelled. I did warn him to use a Geiger counter on his materials - just in case they HAD actually been used.

 

Still do my morning quadruple espresso with Mount Gay out of one of his mugs.

 

post-271-0-94107600-1362596566_thumb.jpg

 

J, you throw Mount Gay in with your espresso in the am? what do you call it?

R

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Ian Terry did a proposal for many of our bits for the Hugh Welbourn ULDB we we cooking for the 89/90 WRTWR. Sadly cancelled. I did warn him to use a Geiger counter on his materials - just in case they HAD actually been used.

 

Still do my morning quadruple espresso with Mount Gay out of one of his mugs.

 

post-271-0-94107600-1362596566_thumb.jpg

 

J, you throw Mount Gay in with your espresso in the am? what do you call it?

R

 

"Barbados heart-starter."

 

Quad espresso to wake you up, 2 teaspoons of demerera sugar to give you energy, and a healthy belt of MG, 'cos otherwise it's just too hot to drink, and the MG is the nearest cooling agent to hand.

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some more pics of Jade, going back in the water.post-83089-0-93477700-1362590817_thumb.jpgpost-83089-0-64971600-1362590850_thumb.jpg

 

That looks like the '83 Jade, Rob Humphreys MH rigged AC contender which missed selection for the British team and iirc was sold to the Netherlands becoming 'Way of Living'. She was at the '85 OTC in Poole but was off the pace of the new generation.

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some more pics of Jade, going back in the water.post-83089-0-93477700-1362590817_thumb.jpgpost-83089-0-64971600-1362590850_thumb.jpg

 

That looks like the '83 Jade, Rob Humphreys MH rigged AC contender which missed selection for the British team and iirc was sold to the Netherlands becoming 'Way of Living'. She was at the '85 OTC in Poole but was off the pace of the new generation.

 

http://www.humphreysdesign.com/797/jade/

 

http://www.humphreysdesign.com/799/jade-2/

 

Well spotted !

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Ian Terry did a proposal for many of our bits for the Hugh Welbourn ULDB we we cooking for the 89/90 WRTWR. Sadly cancelled. I did warn him to use a Geiger counter on his materials - just in case they HAD actually been used.

 

Still do my morning quadruple espresso with Mount Gay out of one of his mugs.

 

post-271-0-94107600-1362596566_thumb.jpg

 

J, you throw Mount Gay in with your espresso in the am? what do you call it?

R

 

"Barbados heart-starter."

 

Quad espresso to wake you up, 2 teaspoons of demerera sugar to give you energy, and a healthy belt of MG, 'cos otherwise it's just too hot to drink, and the MG is the nearest cooling agent to hand.

 

Time to add that to my recipes, thanks !

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For anyone that is keeping track, Scaramouche, built in 1971 an aluminum S&S design out of Palmer Johnson is still happily cruising around the Pacific northwest. Doesn't have the viagra like shape of later IOR boats. Reasonably docile downwind under a cruising rig especially since I had Bob Perry alter the rudder design. Quite a successful boat back in the day (winner Class B '77 Transpac) and many other local races. She is a tremendously strong vessel "built to break ice" and the gear is impressive. Unfortunately I'm too old and too poor to really give her hell in local races but we do see occassional demonstrations of speed.

 

I think YMT already cleared this up, but the Scaramouche which did Tranpac was not the S&S boat, it was a 40 something designed by none other than YMT. Completely different boats with the same name. I do not think the aluminum boat ever raced on the west coast-and certainly not during the time she was on top of her game (the 70's)

 

Well I'm sorry but you're wrong. The aluminum Sacaramouche (which I currently own) was raced for many years on the west coast, owned by the Alexander family of Seattle, won the '77 Transpac (first winner ever with a woman skipper, Kate Alexander, I believe). Designed by S&S I have the original drawings on board. There is some interesting speculation about who did the actual drawings and later went on to fame and fortune in his own right. There were a series of Scaramouches so your mistake is understandable. The one I own is sister ship to Bay Beau and Aura.

 

So... it must be this one:

 

gallery_17143_674_8928.jpg.

 

..not this one?

 

gallery_17143_674_55256.jpg

 

...or this one?

 

gallery_17143_674_160645.jpg

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Time for some Judel/Vrolijk One Tonners........

 

Starting with Dusselboot/Outsider at the '83 Admirals Cup

 

post-73936-0-14917800-1362692860_thumb.jpg

 

Followed by Sudpack at the first 30.5 OTC in '84

 

post-73936-0-88539600-1362692970_thumb.jpg

 

 

post-73936-0-24767700-1362693013_thumb.jpg

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Then in 1985 a new Outsider & Rubin at the OTC

 

post-73936-0-12221800-1362693243_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-97088600-1362693282_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-32313800-1362693461_thumb.jpg

 

 

There was also another new J/V boat at the OTC, Rodeo, with an all girl crew (but I don't have any pictures........)

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And another Rubin in '86 which became Saudade in '87

 

post-73936-0-09986800-1362693701_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-31853400-1362693733_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-28104500-1362693780_thumb.jpg

 

With a new keel.....

 

post-73936-0-87927600-1362693801_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-18023400-1362693847_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-70652100-1362693885_thumb.jpg

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Ian Terry did a proposal for many of our bits for the Hugh Welbourn ULDB we we cooking for the 89/90 WRTWR. Sadly cancelled. I did warn him to use a Geiger counter on his materials - just in case they HAD actually been used.

 

Still do my morning quadruple espresso with Mount Gay out of one of his mugs.

 

post-271-0-94107600-1362596566_thumb.jpg

 

J, you throw Mount Gay in with your espresso in the am? what do you call it?

R

 

"Barbados heart-starter."

 

Quad espresso to wake you up, 2 teaspoons of demerera sugar to give you energy, and a healthy belt of MG, 'cos otherwise it's just too hot to drink, and the MG is the nearest cooling agent to hand.

That's on my list this weekend,

 

But no way I could have that and go to work in the morning!

 

Sundays....however??

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some more pics of Jade, going back in the water.post-83089-0-93477700-1362590817_thumb.jpgpost-83089-0-64971600-1362590850_thumb.jpg

 

That looks like the '83 Jade, Rob Humphreys MH rigged AC contender which missed selection for the British team and iirc was sold to the Netherlands becoming 'Way of Living'. She was at the '85 OTC in Poole but was off the pace of the new generation.

 

http://www.humphreysdesign.com/797/jade/

 

http://www.humphreysdesign.com/799/jade-2/

 

Well spotted !

Wondered about that, the Jade I know wasn't that much of a winch farm.

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It's a representation of effective sailing length, or waterline length.

As in a 27 foot boat with a waterline of 21' would/could be a candidate for the half ton class.

The bad/worst thing re:IOR and modern boats, was that the light displacement boats had to eat an extreme penalty for their lack of weight.

Most light boats under IOR had a rating that was higher than the boat was long. As in a 50' boat could have an IOR rating of 60.0, or higher.

Was type forming to the extreme. Penalized the modern designs to the point of being non-competitve in a way that was counter to design trends at the time. Some boats found a solution to this by bolting large amounts of lead to the deck!

That is what led to the demise of the IOR...

Or everyone just got sick of sailing at 7 knots.......

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The water ballast was on I Punkt owned by Thomas Friese - they ingeniously tapped water off the engine cooling into collapseable plastic jerry cans which could be moved port-starboard uphill & then discretely offloaded downhill.

 

IIRC Friese & crew received a ban of a few years for their efforts.

 

post-73936-0-04793600-1362695060_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-34651000-1362695097_thumb.jpg

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Jacobite was renamed Shiver. There's another masthead 41 called Orca in my boatyard (Fox's in Ipswich) fully kitted out with bluewater cruising kit. I'd have thought the deep draft a pain for cruising.

 

Also, when Fox's cut up the mould for the Carl Shumacher Oyster Lightwave 395 they found a hull sitting inside. Make and interesting project with a modern rig and keel.

That seems a bit careless :P

 

Been done more than once. I remember John Buchan taking his (or his Dad's) boat and adding some foam and laminating a new hull around the old to get IOR friendly beam measurements. Cut out the old hull to make gear bins. Stick your head in there and you could read bits of the old boat name on the side. IOR inspired a lot of chainsaw madness.

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some more pics of Jade, going back in the water.post-83089-0-93477700-1362590817_thumb.jpgpost-83089-0-64971600-1362590850_thumb.jpg

 

That looks like the '83 Jade, Rob Humphreys MH rigged AC contender which missed selection for the British team and iirc was sold to the Netherlands becoming 'Way of Living'. She was at the '85 OTC in Poole but was off the pace of the new generation.

 

http://www.humphreys...n.com/797/jade/

 

http://www.humphreys...com/799/jade-2/

 

Well spotted !

Wondered about that, the Jade I know wasn't that much of a winch farm.

 

The Way of Living at the '85 Admirals Cup

 

post-73936-0-69775900-1362695330_thumb.jpg

 

& in the Spanish team that year a close sister that I'd totally forgotten about, Illes Balears

 

post-73936-0-42557100-1362695416_thumb.jpg

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Followed in 1987 by a 1 Ton Container

 

 

That 1-ton Container became the Italian team 1-ton Aria in 1989. Enrico Chieffi and a bunch of dinghy sailors were not to impressed by Fastnet conditions that year. We managed to finish, despite having to call a helicopter to medevac the owner half way to the Rock, who had forgotten to bring his epilepsy pills. Oh, well.... Another story.

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The water ballast was on I Punkt owned by Thomas Friese - they ingeniously tapped water off the engine cooling into collapseable plastic jerry cans which could be moved port-starboard uphill & then discretely offloaded downhill.

 

IIRC Friese & crew received a ban of a few years for their efforts.

 

post-73936-0-04793600-1362695060_thumb.jpg

 

post-73936-0-34651000-1362695097_thumb.jpg

And one of the later I Punkt's was a Mumm 36 I think? Back doing one of the last AC's, with quite a few english speakers on board :)

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Which was the boat found with the [sotto voce] water ballast system [/sv]?

Didn't the Dubois "VICTORY" from the UK also get pinged for water ballasting?

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In what year did the One Ton Cup change from IOR 27.5ft to 30.5?

I believe the first event was at La Rochelle and Regardless despite being one of the few masthead rigged boats did surprisingly well.

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Which was the boat found with the [sotto voce] water ballast system [/sv]?

Didn't the Dubois "VICTORY" from the UK also get pinged for water ballasting?

IIRC that was more a rating issue, rather than actually sailing with containers full of water like I Punkt

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In what year did the One Ton Cup change from IOR 27.5ft to 30.5?

I believe the first event was at La Rochelle and Regardless despite being one of the few masthead rigged boats did surprisingly well.

 

One Ton went to 30.5 for the 1983 season, although first One Ton Cup under the new limit might have been 1984 (Passion 2)

 

Great photos Ian, many thanks

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In what year did the One Ton Cup change from IOR 27.5ft to 30.5?

I believe the first event was at La Rochelle and Regardless despite being one of the few masthead rigged boats did surprisingly well.

 

One Ton went to 30.5 for the 1983 season, although first One Ton Cup under the new limit might have been 1984 (Passion 2)

 

Great photos Ian, many thanks

 

1984 It was, yes, (and Passion 2) but in La Trinité-sur-mer (La Rochelle arch-rival) and ..... 2 boats from La Rochelle 1st and 2nd :)

 

Last 27.5 cup was Rio in early '83

 

Edit: Winner in '83 a rather tortured Sciomachen design http://archive.wikiwix.com/cache/?url=http://sciomachen.com/linda.htm&title=Chantiers%20Sciomachen

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In what year did the One Ton Cup change from IOR 27.5ft to 30.5?

I believe the first event was at La Rochelle and Regardless despite being one of the few masthead rigged boats did surprisingly well.

 

One Ton went to 30.5 for the 1983 season, although first One Ton Cup under the new limit might have been 1984 (Passion 2)

 

Great photos Ian, many thanks

 

Think another masthead in 84 was Chartreuse (Aluminium built) for UK. Boat was not fitted and customized,bad ranking....

Think Regardless was a "heavy" boat with 150% genois and very fast in La Trinité light winds 84 indeed !

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In what year did the One Ton Cup change from IOR 27.5ft to 30.5?

I believe the first event was at La Rochelle and Regardless despite being one of the few masthead rigged boats did surprisingly well.

 

One Ton went to 30.5 for the 1983 season, although first One Ton Cup under the new limit might have been 1984 (Passion 2)

 

Great photos Ian, many thanks

 

Think another masthead in 84 was Chartreuse (Aluminium built) for UK. Boat was not fitted and customized,bad ranking....

Think Regardless was a "heavy" boat with 150% genois and very fast in La Trinité light winds 84 indeed !

 

 

10 years out on Chartreuse! - that was a David Thomas design for 1974 at 27.5, and I hopped onto that three days after finishing the Whitbread. V quick in the light, struggled a bit in a breeze uphill but in retropect I reckon that was mast/sails more than anything else.

Few years later sawed the bottom of the keel off, went fractional on the same mast and it raced as a 3/4 tonner - then was quick in a breeze!

 

If anyone know where it is these days ( last heard of in Malta in the early 80s ) please ping me. Had some good times on that bus, won round the Island, 10 straight races at the 1 ton trials, but all turned to custard at the worlds in Torquay.

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In what year did the One Ton Cup change from IOR 27.5ft to 30.5?

I believe the first event was at La Rochelle and Regardless despite being one of the few masthead rigged boats did surprisingly well.

 

One Ton went to 30.5 for the 1983 season, although first One Ton Cup under the new limit might have been 1984 (Passion 2)

 

Great photos Ian, many thanks

 

Think another masthead in 84 was Chartreuse (Aluminium built) for UK. Boat was not fitted and customized,bad ranking....

Think Regardless was a "heavy" boat with 150% genois and very fast in La Trinité light winds 84 indeed !

 

 

10 years out on Chartreuse! - that was a David Thomas design for 1974 at 27.5, and I hopped onto that three days after finishing the Whitbread. V quick in the light, struggled a bit in a breeze uphill but in retropect I reckon that was mast/sails more than anything else.

Few years later sawed the bottom of the keel off, went fractional on the same mast and it raced as a 3/4 tonner - then was quick in a breeze!

 

If anyone know where it is these days ( last heard of in Malta in the early 80s ) please ping me. Had some good times on that bus, won round the Island, 10 straight races at the 1 ton trials, but all turned to custard at the worlds in Torquay.

 

Here she is, Hugh !

 

PS: whow these cassettes !

post-6361-0-08925700-1362744335_thumb.jpg

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Rave from the grave - Thanks MF!! Kites were good in fact, headsails not....but I think we hauled up the first ever Kevlar #3 in the UK, 10mins later it blew apart in 10 knots of breeze....cassettes were good in the small boats though - could do v quick headsail change. Not so good up at this size though:(

Fortunately had migrated back to fantasy land on the carthorse! Some legends on board in that pic - Kelvin, Ben Bradley, Pelly the pencil, DT....happy days.

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Rave from the grave - Thanks MF!! Kites were good in fact, headsails not....but I think we hauled up the first ever Kevlar #3 in the UK, 10mins later it blew apart in 10 knots of breeze....cassettes were good in the small boats though - could do v quick headsail change. Not so good up at this size though:(

Fortunately had migrated back to fantasy land on the carthorse! Some legends on board in that pic - Kelvin, Ben Bradley, Pelly the pencil, DT....happy days.

 

Whow, would never have spotted Ben Bradley on that pic ! one more of the great and super-nice guys of that era !

 

PS: Radial kites could be superb and a joy to trim, i hv good memories of those from a french sailmaker called Marc Philippe who was near-exclusively a kite-maker.

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1981 SORC - Midnight Sun

 

Oh, golly... The Holland 51 Midnight Slum. Did 1981 Animals' Cup on that one with the French. And 82 Sardinia Cup. Timmy "Twinstay" Stearn was in full fettle. Happy days.

 

1981 SORC - Dockside shots

 

I love the pic of "Battleship Row" - maxis by the mile.

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1981 SORC - Dockside and sailing stuff, GEM and Love Machine

Du think the "return pulley" would be strong enough !!!!!!!!!!!!

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@hughW, Here's something I found in my old files on Chatreuse.

I also saw her in Malta a few years back, besides the 3/4 rig, her coachroof seemed to have been extended. i took a couple of photos which i will search for.

post-52142-0-05826200-1362787335_thumb.jpg

post-52142-0-61228300-1362787356_thumb.jpg

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In what year did the One Ton Cup change from IOR 27.5ft to 30.5?

I believe the first event was at La Rochelle and Regardless despite being one of the few masthead rigged boats did surprisingly well.

 

One Ton went to 30.5 for the 1983 season, although first One Ton Cup under the new limit might have been 1984 (Passion 2)

 

Great photos Ian, many thanks

 

Think another masthead in 84 was Chartreuse (Aluminium built) for UK. Boat was not fitted and customized,bad ranking....

Think Regardless was a "heavy" boat with 150% genois and very fast in La Trinité light winds 84 indeed !

 

 

10 years out on Chartreuse! - that was a David Thomas design for 1974 at 27.5, and I hopped onto that three days after finishing the Whitbread. V quick in the light, struggled a bit in a breeze uphill but in retropect I reckon that was mast/sails more than anything else.

Few years later sawed the bottom of the keel off, went fractional on the same mast and it raced as a 3/4 tonner - then was quick in a breeze!

 

If anyone know where it is these days ( last heard of in Malta in the early 80s ) please ping me. Had some good times on that bus, won round the Island, 10 straight races at the 1 ton trials, but all turned to custard at the worlds in Torquay.

Sorry to be mistaken about CHrtreuse in 84 at the OTC La Trinité sur Mer, but i do remember a brand new aluminium boat without paint was there, from UK :) Anybody remember she ?

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In what year did the One Ton Cup change from IOR 27.5ft to 30.5?

I believe the first event was at La Rochelle and Regardless despite being one of the few masthead rigged boats did surprisingly well.

 

One Ton went to 30.5 for the 1983 season, although first One Ton Cup under the new limit might have been 1984 (Passion 2)

 

Great photos Ian, many thanks

 

Think another masthead in 84 was Chartreuse (Aluminium built) for UK. Boat was not fitted and customized,bad ranking....

Think Regardless was a "heavy" boat with 150% genois and very fast in La Trinité light winds 84 indeed !

 

 

10 years out on Chartreuse! - that was a David Thomas design for 1974 at 27.5, and I hopped onto that three days after finishing the Whitbread. V quick in the light, struggled a bit in a breeze uphill but in retropect I reckon that was mast/sails more than anything else.

Few years later sawed the bottom of the keel off, went fractional on the same mast and it raced as a 3/4 tonner - then was quick in a breeze!

 

If anyone know where it is these days ( last heard of in Malta in the early 80s ) please ping me. Had some good times on that bus, won round the Island, 10 straight races at the 1 ton trials, but all turned to custard at the worlds in Torquay.

Sorry to be mistaken about CHrtreuse in 84 at the OTC La Trinité sur Mer, but i do remember a brand new aluminium boat without paint was there, from UK :) Anybody remember she ?

There an issue of Seahorse magazine, i think July 1984 which covered this Cup in quite some detail. Maybe someone has a copy with the entry list.

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@hughW, Here's something I found in my old files on Chatreuse.

I also saw her in Malta a few years back, besides the 3/4 rig, her coachroof seemed to have been extended. i took a couple of photos which i will search for.

 

Got to love Rob's optimism in thinking that a few feet less in length would make one-tonners more affordable, just before the hull cost percentage in a campaign was going to become minor.

 

Besides that, he mentions the design-spirit being an evolution of Quarto / Brother-Cup : just makes me remember an intriguing half-tonner (flush-deck) - which I believe was Ernest Juer's first foray offshore. was she a David Thomas design ? Hugh ???

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In what year did the One Ton Cup change from IOR 27.5ft to 30.5?

I believe the first event was at La Rochelle and Regardless despite being one of the few masthead rigged boats did surprisingly well.

 

One Ton went to 30.5 for the 1983 season, although first One Ton Cup under the new limit might have been 1984 (Passion 2)

 

Great photos Ian, many thanks

 

Think another masthead in 84 was Chartreuse (Aluminium built) for UK. Boat was not fitted and customized,bad ranking....

Think Regardless was a "heavy" boat with 150% genois and very fast in La Trinité light winds 84 indeed !

 

 

10 years out on Chartreuse! - that was a David Thomas design for 1974 at 27.5, and I hopped onto that three days after finishing the Whitbread. V quick in the light, struggled a bit in a breeze uphill but in retropect I reckon that was mast/sails more than anything else.

Few years later sawed the bottom of the keel off, went fractional on the same mast and it raced as a 3/4 tonner - then was quick in a breeze!

 

If anyone know where it is these days ( last heard of in Malta in the early 80s ) please ping me. Had some good times on that bus, won round the Island, 10 straight races at the 1 ton trials, but all turned to custard at the worlds in Torquay.

There an issue of Seahorse magazine, i think July 1984 which covered this Cup in quite some detail. Maybe someone has a copy with the entry list.

 

Thanks to IanW who triggered a trip to the attic, I found that while being a broken student, I had, at Cowes Week, invested a huge 30p in that OTC guide !!!

So: here is the double spread-sheet of the fleet in two pics, Fivestar.

post-6361-0-65522700-1362820427_thumb.jpg

post-6361-0-78010900-1362820460_thumb.jpg

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Thanks moody frog, someday I will find the SeaHorse with the preview.

@ chorus 1, are you possibly thinking of Confusion which was a 30.5ft one tonner designed by David Thomas in 1984?

rgds 5*

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@hughW, Here's something I found in my old files on Chatreuse.

I also saw her in Malta a few years back, besides the 3/4 rig, her coachroof seemed to have been extended. i took a couple of photos which i will search for.

 

Got to love Rob's optimism in thinking that a few feet less in length would make one-tonners more affordable, just before the hull cost percentage in a campaign was going to become minor.

 

Besides that, he mentions the design-spirit being an evolution of Quarto / Brother-Cup : just makes me remember an intriguing half-tonner (flush-deck) - which I believe was Ernest Juer's first foray offshore. was she a David Thomas design ? Hugh ???

 

Correct - as I recall that was quite a little tank of a 1/2 tonner and didn't get sailed that much before Ernie moved onto bigger and better things - what happened to that boat I have no idea, but with the flush streamilined deck she was a pretty little boat. Pretty sure it was coldmoulded by the guy up North who built Cascade 1/4 tonner and a couple of other boats for DT.

 

Fivestar - yes, the Webb brothers put a wood deck/coachroof onto the boat before Ron took it down to the Med and added a bit of interior at the at the same time. Somone was looking for something of that era recently for Med classic racing and would be a good find if it could be tracked down.

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Rave from the grave - Thanks MF!! Kites were good in fact, headsails not....but I think we hauled up the first ever Kevlar #3 in the UK, 10mins later it blew apart in 10 knots of breeze....cassettes were good in the small boats though - could do v quick headsail change. Not so good up at this size though:(

Fortunately had migrated back to fantasy land on the carthorse! Some legends on board in that pic - Kelvin, Ben Bradley, Pelly the pencil, DT....happy days.

 

Whow, would never have spotted Ben Bradley on that pic ! one more of the great and super-nice guys of that era !

 

PS: Radial kites could be superb and a joy to trim, i hv good memories of those from a french sailmaker called Marc Philippe who was near-exclusively a kite-maker.

To be fair even if Ben was standing up, you'd be unlikely to see him.

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Thanks moody frog, someday I will find the SeaHorse with the preview.

@ chorus 1, are you possibly thinking of Confusion which was a 30.5ft one tonner designed by David Thomas in 1984?

rgds 5*

Had time to look through the entry list again.

i remember Billycan and Offwego being near sister ships to Golden Apple but with flush decks to speed construction, nothing like as pretty as Golden Apple. I think they were plagued with problems due to their hasty construction. Any idea what happened to them.

also Repression which was totally radical for the time.

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Thanks to IanW who triggered a trip to the attic, I found that while being a broken student, I had, at Cowes Week, invested a huge 30p in that OTC guide !!!

So: here is the double spread-sheet of the fleet in two pics, Fivestar.

Would be good to know where Ceil II is these days. Last I heard it was being restored in Devon about 7 years ago.

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Thanks moody frog, someday I will find the SeaHorse with the preview.

@ chorus 1, are you possibly thinking of Confusion which was a 30.5ft one tonner designed by David Thomas in 1984?

rgds 5*

May be five, does any "Champagne" named was there too ?

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Thanks moody frog, someday I will find the SeaHorse with the preview.

@ chorus 1, are you possibly thinking of Confusion which was a 30.5ft one tonner designed by David Thomas in 1984?

rgds 5*

Had time to look through the entry list again.

i remember Billycan and Offwego being near sister ships to Golden Apple but with flush decks to speed construction, nothing like as pretty as Golden Apple. I think they were plagued with problems due to their hasty construction. Any idea what happened to them.

also Repression which was totally radical for the time.

Photos on my web site, "galerie One tonner" :)))