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chester

I bought A Perry

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I am the new owner of a 1987 Mirage 25, designed by Mr. Perry. Only the 3rd owner and the other two were the dealer and a very, eerrrr, meticulous sailor. Lots of sails, 2 autopilots, self tailing winches, adjustable genoa cars, full cockpit canvas, trailer...i'm pretty happy.

 

So Mr. Perry, why would even a decent builder like mirage build boats with an icebox and no insulation? Sheesh.

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I have no idea. But Mirage built to a low price point. Still I'm sure of you looked at the drawings you would see that the ice box was drawn with room for 4" of insulation. That was our standard in those days. I hope you enjoy your boat.

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sequoia: the boat actually came with a refridgeration unit that was never installed, for good reason as without insulation....

 

Mr Perry: "low price point", ouch! especially since mirage is generally seen as one of the better production builders up here. its generally noted that their glass work was pretty good and many people think that they actually built consistently better boats than C&C. and yes there is room to insulate the ice box, my challenge will be get it done.

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Chester: Dick Steffan was a very good builder and a very good sailor. He knew what he wanted and I enjoyed working with him. I think he did a very good job and I am proud of those boats.

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sequoia: the boat actually came with a refridgeration unit that was never installed, for good reason as without insulation....

 

Mr Perry: "low price point", ouch! especially since mirage is generally seen as one of the better production builders up here. its generally noted that their glass work was pretty good and many people think that they actually built consistently better boats than C&C. and yes there is room to insulate the ice box, my challenge will be get it done.

 

I would think that spray insulation Like this would work.

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of course 3 sides and the bottom will be quite easy. the hull side and under the counter will be a bit more challenging. polyurethane spray or pour foam provides as good of insulation as you can expect but its application may be problematic. i might try Owens foamular (http://www.owenscorning.com/around/insulation/products/foamular.asp) rigid board. 2 inches of this with a foil effective layer might make it into a useful box...this ain't the tropics ya know :P

 

Thanks Bob. i'm really looking forward to it.

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I would think that spray insulation Like this would work.

I had my house done with that stuff. If you can find an opening to the hull side just spray it in. I am pretty sure that it is closed cell and will not absorb water.

 

Will Museler

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the hull side will be tricky. needless to say access will be through a small cabinet door in the front of the galley molding so you would be working blind. i'm already scheming how i will hang some mirrors to allow me to see :rolleyes: . i think i would want to put some kind of spacer on the hull that could be removed after the foam went in to keep the insulation away from condensation on the hull. polyurethane is noted as water resistant and yet most foam sites say that water infiltration does happem and that degrades the insulating capabilities of the foam. i'm not sure if forcing a secondary bond between the box molding and the hull would be a good thing either. I have tried to use the small cans of foam to build an ice box before and didn't have very good results: uneven surface (bot a big problem here), uneven cure, due to poor application technique probably. the other issue with spray foam is cost. you can buy "small" two part kits complete with an application wand that might make the application easier/better but small is still too much for here and the kits are about $250.00. i used blue board insulation in a cooler i built for my current boat, a cs22. i built a plywood box with 1/8th inch birch ply and stitch and glue construction and lined it with 1.5 inch board covered in arborite. the box took the place of the little 3 step ladder that is standard on the boat. the interior of the box turned out to be exactly 1 cubic foot and it worked very very well. in my heated garage last winter a 2 litre bottle of frozen water took 50 hours to completely unthaw. in the real world this summer it performed well above my expectations. well this is 55 degrees north so i have a few months to figure this out :P:angry:

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What I would do is get a can of the stuff, and test in an open space. These foams expand more than you think they will. It appears from my link that you'll only need some small holes to actually put the stuff in. You might want some forms under the ice chest to hold it up while its curing. The biggest problems that I see is that you don't want anything important (ie wiring, engine controls, etc) in the area where the foam will expand. If they are, you'll at least want to put a surround around them. In addition, you'll want some exit for the extra foam to escape from. With a little prior preparation, this should be an easy half day job.

 

As for cost, the Dap foam they were talking about was $4 a can.

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what about glueing layers some of the thin pink 1/4 insulation sheets on the backside? .

 

another idea:

A good freind of mine sent me a box of nightwatch beer when I was living in DC. He used a plastic bag and spray foam inside a cardboard box. You might be able to figure something out where no glue is used because the bag (foam) is snug; -or pad your hull like you where saying and pull your pad with the foam hardened in the plasitic bag.

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Thanks Jimbot and Outerbanks. I think i will need one of these Spy Cameras to suss out the back of the box. the plan that is starting to develop calls for lining the hull and the top of the space to provide clearance and avoid fouling hardware/wiring, building a form to support the bottom of the foam and applying the spray foam through holes drilled through the interior of the box. the application holes will be easy, if not pretty, to close up after application and provide escape routes for exess foam. i think going slow will be key too, ensuring you get maximum expansion before adding more. going with the cans sold for home insulation use will keep the cost down. the problem with this application is that you really need to get it right the first time; if you screw up, cleaning up and starting again.... :(

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slide a layer or two of flexible foam (like cheapo camping sleep mat) with a foil layer facing inboard.

 

spray the expanding foam between the icebox and the foil.

 

leave to set

 

pull out flexible foam mat(s) leaving a clear 1" gap to the hull.

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