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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

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MR.CLEAN

Down To The Wire

203 posts in this topic

Canada's Cup Winner to be Decided Monday

 

TORONTO, October 14, 2007 - Defending team Honour retained their one-point lead today after four long races in this nail-biting match racing championship on Lake Ontario. The one-point difference between the Defender and challenging skipper Bob Hughes is eerily reminiscent of scores going into the final days of the last two Canada's Cup Championships. In both 2001 and 2003, Hughes and his Heartbreaker team lost on the final racing day to seasoned Farr 40 teams from the Royal Canadian Yacht Club. Tomorrow, the challenging team from Macatawa Bay, Michigan will try to break free from their final-day curse, and bring Canada's Cup home with them to Lake Michigan.

 

MORE

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Nice release Clean. I kept thinking you should have been more objective in your coverage (your homerness shines through occasionally).

 

Then I saw this -

TEAM HEARTBREAKER PRESS OFFICER

Alan Block

 

It makes more sense now.

 

Carry on

MS

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Forecast for Monday:

 

Temp - high of 15C this afternoon, Wind- W 3kts. Oh NO!!!!

 

It's going to be a floater..if it's even going to be...

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Many thanks to Clean, IONEARTH guys and all others for the coverage. What would

be great next time around would be a live audio broadcast (with a 5 sec. delay to

let the censors deal with Clean's language... ;) ). Seriously though, I enjoyed the

vids of the starts and the commentary (should hire the guy who was on the protector

as Clean's sidekick).

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Forecast for Monday:

 

Temp - high of 15C this afternoon, Wind- W 3kts. Oh NO!!!!

 

It's going to be a floater..if it's even going to be...

 

Accuweather is calling for WSW winds around 14 km/h, 9 degrees (that's in the mid-50's, 9 mph or, what, 8 knots?)

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Accuweather is calling for WSW winds around 14 km/h, 9 degrees (that's in the mid-50's, 9 mph or, what, 8 knots?)

 

But it looks like they're a lone voice.

 

(Who forgot to pack the 'easy' button?)

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I just dug through three forecasts, none suggested enough wind to race in.

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I guess I'll get some work done today. Too bad.

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(should hire the guy who was on the protector

as Clean's sidekick).

 

I totally agree....

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I looked out the window and saw a line of smog (that wonderful yellow/brown line across the horizon) ... that means no wind-flow in the immediate vicinity.

 

Will they take this in to tomorrow? What's protocol in a situation like this?

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From the SIs:

 

8.2, B) However, if neither boat has 5 points at the completion of racing on October 15, 2007, the boat with the most points on that date shall be the winner of the Match Race Series, provided that such boat has a minimum of 3 points.

 

I'd hate to see it decided like this. At the very least, I think there will be (more) grumbling about Saturday as a result.

 

(I can't get rid of that damn smiley -- it's section b.)

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The rules state that the racing is over as of Monday. If 9 races have not been sailed then the leader takes it, so long as 3 [races have been sailed.] that boat has 3 points.

 

Personally, I hope they sail today, and let the cards fall where they may... Go Honour!

 

Umm, Edit - What Chuck said <g>

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From the SIs:

 

At the very least, I think there will be (more) grumbling about Saturday as a result.

 

 

Of course there will be. I have debated posting something about Saturday's debacle, but have thus far refrained.

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The rules state that the racing is over as of Monday. If 9 races have not been sailed then the leader takes it, so long as 3 [races have been sailed.] that boat has 3 points.

 

Personally, I hope they sail today, and let the cards fall where they may... Go Honour!

 

Umm, Edit - What Chuck said <g>

 

Will there be less grumbling if it's a drift-off today? There were some holes on Friday, but today it'll be all about who flukes into a little pressure.

 

(Why is the CC so late in the season anyhow? Fodder for a separate thread?)

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We know that this isn't the reason it's so late, but you've got a better chance of breeze here this time of year than in the summer so I'd not suggest that timing is the issue. As for Saturday I cannot comment from my armchair but it did seem that the conditions were above their prescribed limit all day.....weren't they? Who knows, but it's always preferrable to win or lose on the water.

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As for Saturday I cannot comment from my armchair but it did seem that the conditions were above their prescribed limit all day.....weren't they? Who knows, but it's always preferrable to win or lose on the water.

 

Wind limits were not exceeded until 2 PM, or shortly before.

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We know that this isn't the reason it's so late, but you've got a better chance of breeze here this time of year than in the summer so I'd not suggest that timing is the issue. As for Saturday I cannot comment from my armchair but it did seem that the conditions were above their prescribed limit all day.....weren't they? Who knows, but it's always preferrable to win or lose on the water.

 

Oh no, I didn't mean to blame timing for the conditions Saturday and today. Summer is worse -- I've bobbed around off EYC in August, I know what you mean. I was thinking late September, but I don't know the details of what and why it's in mid-October. There are probably valid reasons.

 

They might have got one off late Saturday (SF shows the western LO buoy and YYZ below 20 kts), but by the time they would have seen it easing it would have been too late to get out and start.

 

Wind limits were not exceeded until 2 PM

 

Sandstone, I'm looking at buoy and airport data -- it looks to me like it was still blowing hard Saturday morning (while the 4200 was setting).

 

Clean was there -- were they in no hurry because they knew the wind was blowing too hard (in excess of 22 kts sustained)? (I think you said that they were all wanting to go...)

 

(And I'm going on remote data too -- I was sitting here watching it rain all day.)

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http://www.weathernetwork.com/weather/caon1761/

 

-weather from Toronto island. Very light westerly at 10am. Forecast for calm afternoon.

 

Unfortunate if it has to end this way after such a dramatic finish in the last race yesterday. That is yacht racing though...

the 'dramatic finish' yesterday makes an adequate finish overall..........toute fini mes amis.

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If you whingers just go on the net you can find out who Ellison's lawyers are and then....

 

 

Fuck off Newb. Ok, fine. Before I have to go to a meeting, I will say that if I was in the middle of a major championship, the very last thing I would do is wait until mid morning the following day before a race to investigate a potential and VERY critical performance and/or safety problem. That in instelf should lend itself to suspicion. If I were on the jury I would have asked H when they first knew there could be a problem (by their own admission it was the previous day), why did they fail to investigate the matter as to not cause a delay, is the repair needed critical to safety or just performance?

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Fuck off Newb

i visited holland michigan once.........seemed like nice decent people with a bit of vocabulary.....are you an immigrant there?

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I would be very curious to find out why they set the max wind limit at 22 which is less than most RCs which is usually 25. Either way, these boats can, will and should be sailing fine at over that wind speed - as they did in the 2000 Farr 40 Worlds in Newport.

 

Would also be really interesting to find out who's in the International Judge's panel and where they are from. Can anyone find out and post?

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If you whingers just go on the net you can find out who Ellison's lawyers are and then....

 

NOBODY wants to see it end this way. We're looking for a ray of hope (i.e., a breath of wind), that's all.

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Fuck off Newb. Ok, fine. Before I have to go to a meeting, I will say that if I was in the middle of a major championship, the very last thing I would do is wait until mid morning the following day before a race to investigate a potential and VERY critical performance problem.

 

i visited holland michigan once.........seemed like nice decent people with a bit of vocabulary.....are you an immigrant there?

 

Children, children...

 

Sure, they should have seen it earlier. They didn't. That one's been beaten to death.

 

It [the rudder bearing issue] was poorly managed, [but] there's no real question of conspiracy, is there? I mean that's giving people a lot of credit [for brains], I think.

 

Better question -- how to fix these things next time? Increase the threshold to 25 kts? Be firmer on the time limits? Give the RC flexibility to promote the best racing possible? [What else needs to be addressed in the next match?] Let's start THAT topic instead.

 

[AND they just may race today after all.]

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It kinda looks like they may be getting ready to race. IonEarth shows some activity...

 

Anyone know more?

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I looked out the window and saw a line of smog (that wonderful yellow/brown line across the horizon) ... that means no wind-flow in the immediate vicinity.

 

Will they take this in to tomorrow? What's protocol in a situation like this?

 

looking out the window right now across toronto island and out to the lake, light rain, maybe a couple knots of breeze blowing from the north

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On IonEarth, It looks like a starting line has been set and the boats are moving at 6 knots. If under sail, that implies there is a reasonable breeze out there.

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Given the circumstances on Saturday, I think the Gentlemen from RCYC should offer

to race on Tuesday (nice wind in the forecast). I don't know if this would work given

everybody's schedules or whether you can do this within the rules, but it would be

a very nice thing to do...

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I would be very curious to find out why they set the max wind limit at 22 which is less than most RCs which is usually 25. Either way, these boats can, will and should be sailing fine at over that wind speed - as they did in the 2000 Farr 40 Worlds in Newport.

 

No doubt Farr 40s can race in wind speeds over 25 knots, but that was not really the issue. Milner's call on the radio to abandon said it all (and I'm paraphrasing here): "these conditions are not suitable for match racing." (Emphasis mine.)

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Welcome race fans. There IS breeze. Not much, but it looks like 6 or 7 where I'm standing on the bridge of Fred Sherragg's gorgeous Tiara Express 40. I love to be a pimp.

 

Both competitors are sailing along, and we're optimistic that we'll have a start.

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On IonEarth, It looks like a starting line has been set and the boats are moving at 6 knots. If under sail, that implies there is a reasonable breeze out there.

 

could be, hard to tell wind speed with the rain, and if they are out in the lake a bit they would have a little more air since breeze is offshore, at least here

 

a building blocks my view of half the lake, I can't see them

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All of the buoys are finally working at IonEarth, and Russ has added some new features, so it should really work nicely today. RC just announced over the radio that it is their intention to go into a warning at 1100, 1.2 nm, 275 degrees.

 

Plenty of breeze out here, but definitely puffy and holey across the course.

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looking out the window right now across toronto island and out to the lake, light rain, maybe a couple knots of breeze blowing from the north

 

It'll be a bad day on the TSX as all the brokers and bankers will be staring out their windows and updating IonEarth all day long!

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Welcome race fans. There IS breeze. Not much, but it looks like 6 or 7 where I'm standing on the bridge of Fred Sherragg's gorgeous Tiara Express 40. I love to be a pimp.

 

Both competitors are sailing along, and we're optimistic that we'll have a start.

 

 

It's nice to see Clean reporting from one of our fine products.

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looking out the window right now across toronto island and out to the lake, light rain, maybe a couple knots of breeze blowing from the north

I'm on the 23rd floor of the Toronto Star bldg > just looked out to see if I could see any motion either from boats or flags.

 

Flags are by no means "lively" although there are intermittent signs of life.

 

Didn't see the boats, but per Clean's message they're moving - they must be close to Centennial Pier and so hidden from my view. I think I can see 1 mark, vaguely. Looks like I'll be hanging out here for details.

 

Today will be a really tough day - who ever wins today will win on skill. Killer racing when there are only light winds with odd puffs to push you along. <sigh> Wish I was down there rather than up here!

 

G O H O N O U R !!!

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It's nice to see Clean reporting from one of our fine products.

 

Taking alot of credit there arent ya? Arent you on the road yet?

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I'm privileged to be on this boat with Fred Eaton, Little America's Cup champion, as well as John Barbour from BYC, Canada's Cup committee chairman Dave Matheson, and other distinguished guests. They told me that the real reason they invited me to do the SA report from the Tiara was that they were going to throw me overboard for all the crap I've given to RCYC over the past 6 months. Good sports.

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Welcome race fans. There IS breeze. Not much, but it looks like 6 or 7 where I'm standing on the bridge of Fred Sherragg's gorgeous Tiara Express 40. I love to be a pimp.

 

Both competitors are sailing along, and we're optimistic that we'll have a start.

Err...That would be Fred SherraTT Mr. Clean. BTW, It is easy to turn a T to a G whilst typing on a QWERTY board. Just seggint the record straithg

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I'm privileged to be on this boat with Fred Eaton, Little America's Cup champion, as well as John Barbour from BYC, Canada's Cup committee chairman Dave Matheson, and other distinguished guests. They told me that the real reason they invited me to do the SA report from the Tiara was that they were going to throw me overboard for all the crap I've given to RCYC over the past 6 months. Good sports.

 

Anyone from MBYC on the Tiara?

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Taking alot of credit there arent ya? Arent you on the road yet?

 

 

Leaving at 11:30am. Keep me in the loop if you can. My blackberry isn't having much luck loading this forum.

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That was a hell of a start by Honour! They are controlling right now. Start video is uploading.

 

Heartbreaker had the advantaged side on the pre-start, but got caught too far too windward and could not get down to Honour before H broke through to the right. Honour was windward and ahead at the start. Boat are split now. More in a sec.

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Tracking seems to show Honour with consistently better boatspeed. Both boats on starboard with Honour to weather. HB has tacked.

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Is it my computer, or do the "tracks" on the ionearth tracker shift around a bunch?

-M

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Honour is looking awfully good here. They just tacked back from the left and are headed for a cross. Wind is lightening!

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IonEarth is a little frustrating. It would appear they are truncating speeds rather than rounding. Therefore I see speeds jump from 5 to 6 or I will see HB at 5 and Honour at 6. My guess is really is HB at 5.9 and Honour at 6.1.

 

In these low wind speeds, that missing information means a lot.

 

I see the DD still is splitting tacks.

.

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Heartbreaker crossed ahead! it is so shifty and light out here - this is where the better sailors will shine. HB crossed, then tacked on H, H tacked back, to split again.

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Seems like Honour just got hosed by not tacking on top of HB.

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Heartbreaker crossed ahead! it is so shifty and light out here - this is where the better sailors will shine. HB crossed, then tacked on H, H tacked back, to split again.

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HB is controlling the right. Honour is sailing fatter and faster. Tacks are slow, deliberate - this is as close as it gets. HB just tacked back toward the middle. Another cross ahed. CLOSER.

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Here they go again! Honour with a VERY slow tack...it looked like they had gained quite a bit, but the tack hurt them. Heartbreaker lets Honour go to the right!

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Heartbreaker crossed ahead! it is so shifty and light out here - this is where the better sailors will shine. HB crossed, then tacked on H, H tacked back, to split again.

 

Looks like that deeper main on HB might help them today. More power. Hope so.

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HB with a gorgeous leebow on H. H back to the right now. HB back with a lose cover. Another cross ahead!

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Is it my computer, or do the "tracks" on the ionearth tracker shift around a bunch?

-M

 

Yes, they do. They go in cycles based on each 20 second update. The issue has been already been identified. The fix might be a bit complicated to resolve in just 16 hours, most of those being when even programmers are supposed to be asleep.

 

Sparx

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Hey, DD is covering every tack. Did someone give him a copy of "Speed and Smarts"?

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Heartbreaker is sitting on top of Honour to the mark - this is some masterful control. HB is consistently higher, just as we've seen all weekend. Rounding ahead!

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IonEarth is a little frustrating. It would appear they are truncating speeds rather than rounding. Therefore I see speeds jump from 5 to 6 or I will see HB at 5 and Honour at 6. My guess is really is HB at 5.9 and Honour at 6.1.

 

You are probably right. As mentioned yesterday, the system isn't showing the decimals on the speed. Some bug probably in the code that they didn't have time to get it fixed yet.

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18 second delta to Heartbreaker at the mark. Both boats with a conventional set, headed to the right (looking upwind).

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Start video is posted. Might have to wait five minutes for youtube processing.

 

 

Heartbreaker has extended slightly, both boats on port tack still.

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Must be something weird with the display, as my system has consistently shown Honour ahead of HB! ??? After the rounding it showed the Blue triangle to the east of the Red triangle. Very confusing watching that and reading the description! But still cliff-hanger!

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You are probably right. As mentioned yesterday, the system isn't showing the decimals on the speed. Some bug probably in the code that they didn't have time to get it fixed yet.

The problem isn't a bug - it's the firmware in the SRT units. Jerry came straight here from the west coast and then alaska with the Baja units, calibrated for 0 to 200 mph. Firmware fix is already done, to be used at the next sailing event. Tenths of a knot, just like the units used for the level 35's in TC.

 

Course change - 295. Leeward mark has been moved.

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I just bit off my fingernail....

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Must be something weird with the display, as my system has consistently shown Honour ahead of HB! ??? After the rounding it showed the Blue triangle to the east of the Red triangle. Very confusing watching that and reading the description! But still cliff-hanger!

Weird indeed. My tracker is showing pretty much exactly what we're seeing on the course, even down to the difference in headings between the two boats.

 

HB firmly in control as the boats gybe - not far from the mark.

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HB is at the mark...Gorgeous drop for the boys from Michigan (and girl from annapolis).

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Delta is 55 seconds. HB looks damned good. They came to do bid'ness today.

 

Then again, 55 is nothing.

 

Honour tacked away, and..wonder of wonders...HB is covering!

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My bad....Blue hulled boat == blue triangle NOT!.....Just being confused trying to do six things at once....Damn telephone. Clients who want to *know* stuff... Stuff 'em for now!

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Heartbreaker is getting a bit loose with the cover now - they are on the right, separated by 400 yards...and now they're back. Honour just slowed down quite a bit.

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Four tacks in the first few hundred yards of the leg. Whose grinders are in shape?

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Mer is getting me photos right now, will be loaded in a few minutes. To all the unregistered users, if you want to see the thumbnails rather than just file names, you have to register and login. It takes a few minutes, so do it now.

 

Thanks.

 

Breeze building a touch, it loos like. HB has Honour by the sack. HB just crossed well ahead, and is covering nicely.

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The guy shooting pics for Honour is an amazing dude - he was the AP's white house correspondant back in the day, and is famous for getting the "shot seen round the world" when Gerald Ford fell down the stairs of Air Force 1. He also lived in Iran on a Canadian passport (but he's a yank) for the entire hostage crisis. He's been teaching my gorgeous photog a thing or two.

 

I've been trying to convince everyone on board that M-30s are the right boat for the CC, sailed as close to popular waterfronts as possible. I'm starting to annoy them.

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Damn, it's lunchtime. I should have packed today. Running over to Taco Hell. Anybody need something?

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The wind is light enough that the tacking isn't terrible. RC is moving the windward mark to 305, as they're approaching - legs are now 1.2 miles. three and a little legs to do.

 

As you may have heard me say in the start video (with no voice left), if HB wind this one, and the wind craps out, HB is the new champion. Tiebreaks are decided by the last race won.

 

That being said, the wind seems fine right now. Not a lot, but still 6 knots or so of breeze.

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Damn, it's lunchtime. I should have packed today. Running over to Taco Hell. Anybody need something?

 

Sure... 1 Steak and Cheese delivered to Detroit, please. Make it 2 so I can hang for the afternoon.

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Before we get to the mark rounding, just a suggestion/something to look at.

 

My desktop normally runs its system time on UTC, with a TZ update to show local EDT on screen. If I try ionearth with that setup, it says, local time is noon and race time is 8:00 am. No marks, etc. NADA.

I have to push the system clock to noon to see the match display...so my little clock thingy shows that it is now 16:04. This is a linux box BTW. but that needs to be looked at...discrepancy between the clock that the ionearth system sees, and the local system clock. Looks like the TZ correction is backwards.

Go HONOUR

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Dave just said that the current here is up to 2 knots at times, flowing directily from Niagara falls to here. Honour just rounded a minute behind HB, and nearly had to double-tack the mark again. Remember that Honour chose to sail with no wind instruments at all - no expedition, none of the bells and whistles. A brave call from Gavin Brady, but with three or four badly called laylines, maybe something to consider.

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Damn, it's lunchtime. I should have packed today. Running over to Taco Hell. Anybody need something?

I'm good to go...

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What is the wind doing? It looks like it has backed to slightly south of where it was originally? And what is the strength?

 

Very quiet downwind leg. I expected more gybing from Honour..

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Heartbreaker is about to round the new leeward mark - two more legs to go and we're on the the winner-take-all race.

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Damn, it's lunchtime. I should have packed today. Running over to Taco Hell. Anybody need something?

 

 

I'll take one of those "PINK TACO's" that everyone is talking about.

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Honour has cut the distance in half - 36 seconds between them at the leeward mark. One shift and this thing is up for grabs again, though Dave D isn't making the same mistakes again.

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Hey, Clean... Thanks, Pal... Haven't done squat today so far!!!

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For the first time all weekend, Honour is pointing higher than HB. This could be intentional, but it's hard to say. Both crews are hiking again, as Honour tacks over to the middle. Crossing astern by a bunch of boatlengths.

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Honour is definitely closing up, and HB is covering much more tightly. Honour back to the left, HB legging out to the right now - looking for a tack from them...wait for it...wait for itt...

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Heartbreaker is about to round the new leeward mark - two more legs to go and we're on the the winner-take-all race.

 

 

do you mean we are on to the winner take all race ?

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More pics coming. Honour is closing with every tack.

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Amazing tacking duel - there have to be at least 25 tacks so far on this leg. Halfway to the top mark now, HB still in the lead, but it's getting chipped away bit by bit.

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Dave just said that the current here is up to 2 knots at times, flowing directily from Niagara falls to here. Honour just rounded a minute behind HB, and nearly had to double-tack the mark again. Remember that Honour chose to sail with no wind instruments at all - no expedition, none of the bells and whistles. A brave call from Gavin Brady, but with three or four badly called laylines, maybe something to consider.

What happened tho their instruments? tough to call the shifts

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Damn, it's lunchtime. I should have packed today. Running over to Taco Hell. Anybody need something?

 

I felt a little goofy eating my sandwich watching a blue and red triangle on my laptop at lunchtime today. I'm glad to see I'm not alone.

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Dave just said that the current here is up to 2 knots at times, flowing directily from Niagara falls to here. Honour just rounded a minute behind HB, and nearly had to double-tack the mark again. Remember that Honour chose to sail with no wind instruments at all - no expedition, none of the bells and whistles. A brave call from Gavin Brady, but with three or four badly called laylines, maybe something to consider.

What happened tho their instruments? tough to call the shifts

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The tacks are amazing - more tacks on this leg than probably the entire other 7 races. These guys are awake now!

 

Heartbreaker is a minute or so from the mark, leading Honour by 8-10 boatlengths. Last leg ahead!

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27 seconds, HB gybed to cover just as Honour rounded with a gybeset. Once again Honour called a horrible layline, and had to pinch for 5-10 seconds to get around. That hurt them badly. Honour now to windward slightly and well-behind. It'll take a miracle to catch HB here.

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